I am new to the group. My spouse has BPD.  I thought for a long time that he had NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). They both have similar behaviors.   As hard as it was, I finally accepted that my marriage of over 30 years is over.  He has put us in a tight financial bind..not the first time.  I love him dearly and always will. However, he doesn't take responsibility or accountability for his actions. He deflects, shift-blames, and gaslights when I try to express things that we need to work on in the marriage.  I am currently in counseling. I've mentioned individual counseling to him, but he refuses. There isn't anything more I can do.  I am in the process of grieving my marriage... It's pretty tough, and I am healing from past trauma.  Is there anyone who can relate?  I've come a long way, but I'm still a work in progress.   

Hi mom,

You must be exhausted tolerating dysfunction for so long.  You love your daughter and want what's best for her, but she refuses help while clinging to a victim attitude like her life depends on it.  I bet she blames you and others (ex-romantic partners, ex-roommates, ex-family members, ex-friends, ex-coworkers, etc.) for all her problems, correct?  I bet she tells stories of enduring abuse, bullying, condescension, deceit and unfairness, where details are highly warped and/or questionable, and the common denominator of her grievances is that she's always the victim.  Sound familiar?  If it does, it's because that's typical for BPD.

You don't want to see your daughter suffer so much, and yet she's stubbornly making one bad decision after another which begets more suffering, and in the process, she's making you suffer.  That's because she's making decisions based on extreme emotions and impulse, not logic.  And though technically she's an adult, she's functioning like a child, in that YOU bear the consequences of HER decisions.  In her world, the incentives are all mixed up, as are her priorities.  Because of this, you both are stuck in a pit of despair.  I bet you cycle through emotions of desperation, bargaining, anger, resignation, exhaustion and hopelessness, over and over again.

Look, I'm not a mind reader, but I bet your daughter's internal dialogue is exceedingly negative.  Deep down, I bet she hates herself.  She hates her life, she hates the bad decisions she's made, she hates feeling inferior to everyone around her.  I bet she suffers from intense shame, and that her self-confidence is in the pits.  Moreover, since she doesn't really do anything (but fail), who is she, anyway?  She doesn't know who she is, except for a freeloading mess-up that is an embarrassment to her family.  She's in her 40s, she thinks she's hopeless.  But she suffers too much when she thinks like this, so she starts to look for scapegoats--anyone else to take some of the blame.  I imagine that, since she's alienated everyone else, the only person left to blame for her messed-up life is YOU.  She RESENTS you for making her feel so incompetent and dependent.  Thus she'll bite the hand that feeds her.  She doesn't care if she bankrupts you--because it's YOUR FAULT!  She has become the gold medalist of the grievance Olympics.  If only she could channel her stubbornness towards a more positive, productive pursuit, she'd be a champion . . . But she has exercised her brain with negative thoughts so extensively, for so many years, that she has worn deep ruts in her brain.  In a way, the negative thinking patterns--and the stories of victimhood--become almost automatic, routine to her.  Does that sound about right?

I think there's hope, because BPD is treatable, provided that your daughter wants to make some changes to start to feel better.  Unfortunately, she may have to hit bottom first.  I think that for as long as she's living with you (or off of you), she'll continue to blame you for her situation (even if, deep down, she knows that's not entirely true).  Though she's suffering, she's happy with the status quo, because she thinks it's working for her.  She has "her" car, she eats enough, and she gets to blame you for everything.  But my question is, are you happy with the status quo?  Is keeping your beloved daughter off the street the best situation for both of you?  I'm not asking that to be cruel, I'm asking that as a genuine question.  I understand that as a parent, you can't bear to withdraw assistance, because of the fear that your daughter might end up on the street and wind up dead.  Is that the scenario that you're dealing with right now?

I'm not sure what to advise you here, because these situations are really tricky, and pwBPD can be highly volatile, and act out in predictably impulsive ways.  All I can say is that the pwBPD in my life had to try (and fail) living semi-independently a few times before she hit bottom and was ready to commit to therapy.  In addition, she had to hear some ultimatums from her doctors as well as her dad.  The doctors said something along the lines of:  We've tried everything for you, and you say nothing has worked.  The only option left is for you to participate in a treatment program.  It's your choice whether to do it or not.  But if you end up in the hospital again in the future, we'll have no choice but to commit you against your will.  Her dad said something like this:  I love you and want to support you in getting some help to recover from your traumas.  I will support you if you do exactly what the doctors say, whether it's a program, medications or therapy sessions.  You can choose to go your own way, but then you're on your own.  You're an adult, it's your choice to make.  Fortunately, she decided to do the recommended therapy program(s), and she managed to turn her life around.  Though her progress didn't happen in a straight line, her life got much better in a relatively short time (1-2 years).  And though she still has some work to do, she has a much healthier lifestyle today.  I don't mean to rub this in, but merely to provide a little hope.

Therapy doesn't have to be a condemnation.  I think the pwBPD in my life actually warmed to the notion of working with "professional" therapists.  It validated her thesis that her life was so full of trauma that she needed some professional help to learn to cope with it.  In fact, I think that's a positive way of framing therapy (getting extra/temporary support to help to cope with something), rather than being labelled mentally ill.  Nobody likes that label.  In addition, I think her dad also warmed to the notion of heeding professional advice.  That way, he was alleviated of coming up with new solutions--he felt that everything he had tried to save his daughter had failed, and their relationship was already too strained.  His main job as a parent transitioned (temporarily) to ensuring that his daughter followed doctors' orders, in order for him to continue to provide financial and other support.  That seemed much cleaner and simpler.  Does that make sense?

To add Zachira's comment, my experience with boundaries is that:
1) they can be emotionally difficult to set (for example setting boundaries for my own mother has been difficult)
2) the other person is going to react to them with extinction burst kind of behaviors and that is more difficult to navigate than setting them in the first place
3) if you can get through the extinction bursts, it does get better.  But in my circumstance where it's my mother and she lives so close, even when it gets better, it never goes away, meaning even with my boundaries, her behaviors don't stop.  But they have lessened for me, especially now that she's in assisted living. Somebody else gets to deal with her and make decisions.

Right now she's choosing to eat like a bird, and then send me texts about how she is losing weight.  She says she doesn't like the food.  The truth is, she never liked any food (anorexic).  And so even when I used to bring her food, she would give it away or throw it out.  Sometimes she would tell me hers tasted better.  So I eventually stopped bringing her food. When the text comes about losing weight, I roll my eyes and move on.  She's an adult.  She's a nurse.  She makes her own decisions.

So boundaries do make things better, potentially significantly better, but it's still a roller coaster at times.  And they never stop finding ways to blame us.  She is blaming me less than she used to, but that's because I only see her once a week, and no longer go alone to these visits.  Those are some of my boundaries.  So for the newbies on the site, this is an example of how boundaries are for US, and not for the other person.

How are boundaries working out for others?

Generally, your attorney will ask for a lot of this; they'll have a standard playbook of the information that is routine in a divorce, namely what assets each party is bringing into the marriage, what assets are jointly held, how much money there is, etc. and so on. 

In your case, I think you also need to document the costs of the kids' support, what they require, and how they get this support. 

If your STBX-H has made threats about taking the kids, discuss this with your attorney, and any basis he may have for claiming this. 

Note that pwBPD often have to feel like "they won" in a divorce, so it may be worthwhile to come up with something you can concede on that allows them to save face and go away.  Maybe give them a favorable property dissolution, like go 55/45 instead of 50/50, or let them keep some asset. 

My cousin divorced a guy who - if not BPD - was certainly on the spectrum, and had been physically abusive to their kids.  He basically wanted more money to give up parenting time, which she had and was willing to part with on the basis that the extra $25K or whatever she was paying him was a one-time expense & she could make more money, but getting him out of their kids' lives was priceless. 

That sort of thing.

Careful with this; college could be an excuse to avoid work, and a very expensive one for you if you're getting stuck with the costs of her college education on top of all your household expenses.  I've seen people in my life stretch college or graduate school out for years and yet when they graduate they're STILL nothing but a burden on someone else, but now with the added "bonus" of all the debt they accrued while in school. 

Your situation is as complicated as any other with young kids involved, and while it may seem overwhelming to think of a way to separate and make it work, note that you don't have to; a court typically does that.  I think this is why seeing an attorney for a consultation is so worth it.  They can explain to you the local rules and the likely outcome of your case.  This does wonders for your peace of mind & takes away the scariness of the threats around divorce pwBPD love to make. 

At least where I live, the standard divorce outcome was not too bad & it was helpful to have seen an attorney and gotten this advice b/c what my then-BPD-wife was telling me what would happen in a divorce amounted to a fantasy world of what she wanted to happen not what the law would determine. 

You don't have to figure it all out at once; break it into steps and figure those out in turn.  Get legal advice, explore living options for the separation, etc. get your own bank account separate from the soon-to-be-ex's, etc. 

And at the same time, preparing for divorce doesn't mean you have to go through with it.   You can work on bettering the relationship for as long as it lasts.  And if things do improve and you're content enough to stay, then you can stay!  Consider preparing for the divorce as an insurance policy though, insurance against ensuring that you're not trapped in an unhealthy or unsafe situation simply because you don't know how to get out. 

Just be mindful that your preparations remain secret! 

I have an undiagnosed BPD husband and am ready to start the divorce process. I’ve chosen a lawyer and looking for advice on what questions I should be asking them.

We have kids with significant support needs and my biggest concern is their safety and likely attempts to have them taken from me. I’m also concerned about protecting our finances (I’m the breadwinner), what documentation should I be keeping, how to protect myself against false allegations, how should I answer his questions / demands for information, logistics of making separation decisions if he is hostile or too in his feelings to participate, etc.

Any and all advice is welcome.

Yeah, I think the site was temporarily offline...something similar happened last year from outside hackers or some type of attack.  Unfortunately, that's the world we live in these days.  It appears all is well now though.

Unfortunately, yeah, mental health can run in families and it's probably much more common than people realize.  My mom was always super angry over the smallest things, and 20-30 years ago we'd just say, "That's how some people are."  But now I can see so much more that explains how she was actually suffering- it's sad.  People never truly know what someone else is dealing with.

Hopefully you find an online support group and feel free to post here as needed when questions come up or you just need to vent.  We've all been there, or are there now, and there's a sense of peace to be found when you know you're not the only one, that this is actually a thing in this world that people have to deal with daily.

I hope that helps!

It is what it is.  And you do what you have to do.  Of course, if you try to "take control" you will face opposition and obstruction.  Around here, that's par for the course, though when I use that phrase I must admit at most I only have played putt-putt golf.

There are lots of points to be expressed and explained, more than can be written in one thread so please browse others' posts and the responses, perspectives and strategies.  Here are a few...

We here are reasonably normal but one otherwise excellent trait is that we try to be more than fair, so overly fair that we end up making it easy for the other to sabotage our good intentions.  So remember that you don't have to be overly fair in the midst of a divorce by overextending your Nice Guy or Nice Gal qualities.  You just avoid being nasty... you don't have to look out for your ex's interests, court will treat her more than fairly.

So what do you do?  Recognizing your adult relationship has failed and ended, keep in mind that there are other Priorities in your life:

• Priority #1 Your own health and welfare - if you're not in good mental and emotional shape how can to do your best for your children?
• Priority #2 Be the best and most involved parent you can be for your children - if possible, seek to be the primary parent (custody & parenting time schedule) in both the upcoming temp order and in the years to come.  Even if your ex and the divorce process try to limit your parenting, seek to make any settlements and court orders, including the initial temp order, as "less bad" as possible.

Hi Rhdnrs,

I can see how tough this is, and it’s completely natural that it will take time to process and heal.

I think you’re right, as hard as it feels, filing yourself will help you reclaim some control over your future and put the focus back on your own well-being.

She might not like it, but she’s already made her choices. Now it’s your turn to make yours, and to live life on your terms.

Thank you so much for your advice! I was having issues logging into the site the past couple of days, but it seems to have resolved somehow.

That's exactly what my loved ones have been saying, that her husband has been a huge influence in this estrangement, and by the way, she does idolize him, which is crazy. She hasn't been formally diagnosed with BPD, and she's reluctant to seek therapy, so I guess she will never be properly diagnosed. My therapist asked me thorough questions about her childhood and teenage years, how were her friendships, how was our relationship at the time and so forth, so she came to the conclusion that she most likely has a personality disorder, probably BPD.

This whole reality with my daughter (my only child) is very tough to deal with since I already have a difficult relationship with my mom. I'm sure she also has several mental disorders as well, but has never reached out for professional help, she just doesn't believe there's anything wrong. Also, I should mention that my grandmother (mom's mom) was diagnosed with paranoia schizophrenia, and my grandfather suffered from PTSD (veteran) and severe depression and alcoholism. I know mental illness can run in families, and mine check most of the boxes so to speak. 

I am looking into support groups from the National Alliance on Mental Illness, to see if I can find a virtual meeting I can participate in. My therapist has been pretty helpful, but I must admit, this whole experience has blown me away, the overwhelming rollercoaster of feelings of sadness, guilt, frustration and anger is just something I never imagined I would experience in my life.

Thank you again for chiming in and taking the time to listen!