Hi hiiumaa ,

Thanks for your response. So you have never criticized, rejected, or disapproved of anything about him? And you tried to avoid saying no?


I'm curious, what was he asking you? Did he want you to stay in your place or store something there so that he would have an excuse to go to your place frequently?

In all of my relationships, whenever I need to say NO and put limits, I do it firmly, even in the beginning of the relationship. I think that has been helpful in a way, but saying no when they are dysregulated is a problem. Maybe the problem is within the emotion we feel when we say it? Maybe saying no when feeling empathy would work? I know we can't just turn a switch and choose our emotions, but just saying.

Max, I think this comes down to you, your values, and boundaries.

Other people may have experience with poly relationships but what can work for one person doesn't necessarily work with others. If someone else finds that manageable, that doesn't mean you have to. From what I have heard- (and I don't have experience with this) is that a poly relationship is agreeable to all involved. However, this isn't currently a poly relationship. Your wife has entered a romantic relationship outside the marriage without you knowing.

You and your wife have been married in a monogomous relationship. She went on a dating site and didn't tell you and  began a romantic relationship with someone else. That's not being poly, it's infidelity.

IMHO, this is also a triangulation.  Likely, she got attention and that felt good and now the new person is painted "white" for now.

It's good that you didn't just give in but IMHO, more importantly- are your boundaries on this. If your value is that your marriage is monogomous- then whatever sexual orientation your wife is- she married you. Now she wants to change the terms of the marriage. If she doesn't want to keep the marriage monogomous, it's your choice whether or not to continue in this relationship.

What she's asking is to have both- you as the supportive husband and her affair partner. You aren't trapping her in the marriage and forcing her to be monogomous. You married with the intention of a monogomous relationship. She could decide to leave the marriage too- but you've been a support to her- she wants to have both.

This is not about whether or not one has tolerance or acceptance for LGBTQ. It's about crossing the line from friendship to more when someone is married and this applies to same sex and heterosexual relationships too.

A dating site is a dating site. It's not where you find just friends. If someone is in a monogomous marriage and they go on a dating site for either men or women, and enters into another relationship, this is a violation of the marriage agreement.

If I could draw on my own experience with my BPD mother, something like this would have been one of her projected "solutions" to her internal emotional distress and a new "identity" due to her poor sense of self and friend group. She didn't consider LGBTQ at the time because in her era, people were more closeted. In her era the women's movement was beginning- and so she embraced that- but more as an identity than in actions, but in general, none of her external focuses were effective as a solution to her BPD.

Although BPD mother threatened divorce from time to time, she didn't actually follow through with that. I don't know if there was infidelity or not. As to my father- he may have gotten upset about her behavior but he too, didn't follow through with a divorce. I don't know all the reasons why but I think one aspect is the push pull nature of the dynamics. There'd be a situation that was distressing like yours is now, but then, when BPD mother sensed she may have pushed too far, her behavior would settle, things would be calm again for a while and the sense of needing to do something would would be less.

The decision is actually yours Max. Is this a deal breaker for you? Or is this going to be one more wave to ride out? My guess is that the luster of the new person isn't going to be the solution your wife is seeking. She's going to realize at one point that her new paramour is human too, like you are, like everyone else is, and that all relationships can get complicated. It doesn't seem like she wants to leave the marriage.

Your part is to decide what you want to do. There's no right or wrong answer. What you can't control are your wife's feelings or actions about it. In any marriage, over time, we encounter people who we may find attractive. Our decision is what we do about it. It can happen that someone realizes they are same sex attracted years into a heterosexual marriage. Some couples work this out and for some, it can't work out. Some people remain together when there's infidelity, some don't.

Your part is to figure out your feelings and what your boundaries are.

Hi SuperDaddy,

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

I can only tell you from my own experience that it wasn't enough to always be there for him.

I never used phrases like the ones you listed either. In the initial co-dependency phase, I tried to please him in every way and would not have spoken to him like that.

Later, when I'd really had enough, I had already read/heard so much about BPD and NPD that I knew validation and non-violent communication were the better options.

The fact was that this couldn't stop the outbursts.

In the last nine months of the relationship, I even asked artificial intelligence for help in critical situations when exchanging text messages, asking for the best possible, most empathetic and validating response, but one that was calm and clearly setting boundaries at the same time.

An example of a response I gave after distorted facts, blame shifting and accusations came up: ‘Xy, I have read what you wrote and I can see that you are very upset. At the same time, I stand by what I said: I cannot take responsibility for something that is not mine.’

This was followed by a complete break in contact after further accusations.

I have also added the following to such responses: ‘... We can now take a 30-minute break and continue writing when we have calmed down.’

That did not help either.

A therapist once said that in such moments, the old trauma is triggered too strongly and without the tools they would learn in therapy, they have no chance of calming themselves down.
Their nervous system is in survival mode and clear thinking is no longer possible. They feel like the helpless child again.

I am curious to hear what experiences others have had!

As somebody most likely on the spectrum, whose ex has uBPD, I relate to this. For me I think the appeal is that I like puzzles, and like fixing things, and my ex is quite the puzzle, and needs quite a bit of fixing. Add to that the single-mindedness that also comes with my autism, and I can see how I’ve gotten so stuck on the idea of being with and now mending the relationship with my ex.

I will add that I feel proud of myself for standing firm in a calm and respectable way because I usually roll over and go along with the things she wants.  I also feel good that when W disregulated in T session today, T used the same techniques people teach here for dealing with those situations.  And they didn’t work for a trained T much better that they work for me.  Just tells me that pwBPD are difficult to deal with even for professionals, and to be less hard on myself for contributing to the chaos.

Doc
Thanks for this post this resonated with me as well as others. My daughter 45 years with undiagnosed BPD, since her teens.Has now moved in with me about 3 months ago. Shes been horrific one day and sweet as anything the next. She has no money and no steady job, freelance writer and incredibly talented and intelligent. She has gone through so many relationships and jobs and money. I am having such a difficult time keeping to boundaries and dealing with guilt. And having others reaffirming the importance of boundaries is lifesaving and reading so many post is so important to realize that I can't do this alone and I can't fix her, as heartbreaking as it is. Thank you all!

Here I am again… returning to this discussion board when times are rough.  Don’t know if I want advice or just someone to listen

The long and short - W decided to go on a lesbian dating site a few weeks ago.  She didn’t tell me beforehand, and when she told me I was a bit naive to what she was saying. I thought it was just another social media site for people in the LGBTQ community.  Nonetheless, W befriended a woman there, and when she told me she was going to meet this woman, I thought she was asking if it was ok to meet someone from the internet who is a lesbian.  I didn’t understand there was a mutual attraction.   W then started talking about an open marriage.  I don’t think that is something that could work for me, especially involving a pwBPD.

Anyway, she went out with this woman twice.  I see was under the impression that we agreed to keeping things platonic between them until we could tall about it further.  Of course, that didn’t happen, and I told her in T today that I felt uncomfortable.  Of course, W disregulated.

W feels i am trapping her in this marriage and forcing her to be monogamous.  All I am asking for at the moment is time to weigh pros and cons.  There is a whole lot of background here that I won’t get into right now, but Nonetheless, I don’t see what is left of our relationship if she is also seeing someone else.  I feel like at that point I am no longer getting love or attention.

If anyone has advice or experience with poly relationships, i’d be interested to hear.  But right now for me this feels like a step too far.

.

When living apart, is it possible to end the relationship conflict with your BPD partner? I mean, is it possible to stop being verbally attacked and devalued?

I'm intrigued with this because Pook075 said (in another thread) that he succeeded in doing that with 3 different people that have BPD: ex-wife, daughter, and "best friend's little sister." In the case of an intimate partner, it would be harder, but can the same approach work?

Pook075 said the drama ends as soon as they figure out that "you are always there for them." But obviously this is not enough, because this was already a true fact during his marriage and also in Rowdy's marriage, but both of them got devalued and left by their partners anyway (as they said in the thread).

So I was thinking maybe the trick to getting along with someone with BPD is to never exhibit any emotion that is negative and indicates the lack of acceptance or approval of something about them (their behavior, their choices, their thoughts, etc.) or can be interpreted in that way. Here are a few examples I made:

- I am tired of this behavior of yours. (not accepting something about their behavior)
- Can't you just admit that you have lied? (not accepting the lie and the lack of disclosure)
- You are making our kid watch too much screen. (not accepting the choices)
- You are freaking out all the time! You are a strange person, aren't you? (not approving the overreactions)

So is this about the concept of "radical acceptance"?

But you know, we can't accept everything. There are things that are completely unacceptable, such as cheating or doing something that is dangerous for the kids. Is it possible to reframe anything that we don't accept/approve in a way that won't trigger them? Should we just shut up for a while and wait for our negative emotion to disappear before talking?

I agree that talking to a small circle could be beneficial...and it certainly makes it more real.  Family can't fully understand the mental illness dynamic but they can see your body language and gauge you for you.  That doesn't sound like a bad plan.

There will be some here who are reeling in pain that will tell you to run.  But mostly, you'll find people will encourage you to make the best choice for your life, and your daughter's life.  Once you begin to put yourself first, it will change so much and you'll be able to see this so much more clearly.  Talking to a friend or two is the first step in that journey.

Thanks for the update, and I think all of us felt exactly the same way.

Here's the thing though.  Your husband is responsible for himself.  You're responsible for you.  And no matter what you do from today forward, it can't change the fact that he has untreated mental illness.  You can't save him, you can't convince him, you can't do anything in that regards.

So where does that leave you?

Option 1, you stay and "deal with it."  You're not happy, he's not happy, but you keep doing it because that's what you've always done.  On paper, it looks better for the kid...but that's not always the truth.  A happy, mentally-stable mom is what's best for the kid.

Option 2, you leave and your husband resents you for it.  But here's the thing, he resents you now...and you resent him.  Where's the downside?  He may actually get worse mentally, but that could also be the thing that pushes him towards therapy and recovery.  Heck, leaving could technically be the one thing that could actually save the marriage.

The guilt you feel is not directly tied to your situation...it's tied to years of mental strain in a troubled marriage.  It's familiar, it's comfortable, even though it makes you miserable.  If there was even a 1% chance you could "fix him", I'd be the first to tell you to stick it out.  But you can't fix him, nobody can until he's personally ready for real change.

I hope that helps!