As to the baby- she'd be in a similar situation as me, having a mother with BPD. I think it's one step at a time with the baby. Right now, if she's being cared for with the help of her mother's family- she is OK. If I could summarize what was most helpful to me as a child, it's that other stable adults were also involved. If your son is able to have separate parenting agreements- then you two, as his parents will be able to spend time with the baby during his parenting time. If the DIL's mother is involved, the baby will be cared for. For now, your son has some tasks ahead for himself.

The "window dressing" on social media is because, how people perceive them is important to someone with BPD- and actually we all want to be seen favorably by others. If your DIL needs help, it's important to her that she is still seen as a "good mother". My BPD mother was agreeble to having help- I think best presented to her as "you deserve this help" rather than as "you need the help", implying she can't do it on her own. To phrase things in a complimentary way may feel like pandering but pwBPD have a poor self image and so are sensitive to negative comments.

Notwendy,  I've been rereading your reply. It helps my perspective.  I'm saddened by considering my son masks to possibly feel excepted and loved. That his true nature isn't worthy of being loved. I was hoping that possibly he had a good day or experience and he was feeling genuine happiness over it. I would love that he has those moments. Last night's call didn't feel needy, or manipulative as some have. Idk. I am mulling over what you called radical acceptance.  I do know my pain comes from denying reality or trying to control my son. Thank you.

CC43,  I agree about the rash and suggested many of those things. When he was disregulated practical self care advise didn't calm the storm in him though he tried a few things. He did see a Dr finally who put him on prednisone and it's cleared up.
I appreciate your honest life example.  Thank you. You didn't try to change your husband's mood, didn't argue or defend. You stayed true to yourself and kept out of the way until the storm blew over. I will also think about my son's triggers.  For me oprotecting myself from my son's storms when he calls in distress is I think to validate his feelings, be empathetic, let him know I love him. Then I kind of get stuck. How long to stay on the phone when he's spinning out, when he's needing saving from a financial issue...
Anyway, I appreciate both your responses. I'm slowly getting it. I'm not feeling responsible at the moment for his emotions and choices. I feel breathing space.

Thank you for all the advice. It makes perfect sense (in a “dealing with BPD” sort of way. I definitely need to work on not arguing and getting out of conversations before they go on too long. I’ve gotten better, but definitely have a ways to go.

Recently, I saw a post on social media about feelings. A person visiting his T gets upset and says, “my feelings are real!” The T responds. “Yes, but that doesn’t mean they’re based on fact.”

Concisely put. Not something that would be helpful for a person with BPD (at least not during dysregulation), but still accurate, I thought.

I think there are many posters here with similar type situations. I hope to offer some perspective, based on my own experiences. I am the adult daughter of a mother with BPD. Both my parents are deceased after a decades long marriage.

The Karpman triangle was very helpful to me in understanding the behavior. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

BPD mother was in victim perspective, and my father's main position was as her rescuer/enabler. For the two of them to be aligned like this- someone or something was in persecutor position. BPD mother's interactions with people were from her victim perspective- so "painting someone black" to another person who may be empathetic to her, and align with her was a common pattern. What is said isn't necessarily true. For someone with BPD, feelings feel like facts- so they may feel that way or- possibly be seeking empathy from the person they are venting to. This could explain why your DIL told stories about you to the midwife.

IMHO, and from experience, the most precarious thing about this situation is- that she is acting "normal" and may even be acting especially nice to your son. This is not malicious, it's fear of abandonment, as she may be aware that her behavior could push him away. PwBPD are very sensitive to shame- and so may not apologize or take accountability to avoid this feeling, which is very distressing to them- so instead they may act like "all is good now".

The person who has seen the behavior may second guess themselves and think well she's OK now. Also with my mother, there could be "reasonable" sounding reasons for the behavior- and your DIL may attribute her behavior to hormones and post partum. That may be a preciptating factor- but that doesn't mean her behavior was reasonable. It can give the impression that this was a one time event, but BPD is not a one time issue.

Why are you and your wife in a most precarious situation?- because, you are "on" to her and also because, next to her, you have the most influence on your son, her husband. Often the non BPD spouse's family members are likely to be placed in the persecutor position on the Karpman triangle.

You have no control over your DIL's feelings and your son will make his own decisions. Ultimately he will need to be the one who decides to carry out his plans and while you wish to be of support to him, keep the Karmpan triangle in mind and try to keep the drama in your interactions with her down, and keep your interactions with her positive- stay cordial, not emotionally reactive, even if you feel otherwise.

Hi Mom,

Here's my read:  your son is stressed out, and he hasn't really learned healthy ways of coping with stress.  Though there are lots of potential reasons for a rash, including food poisoning, allergies (e.g. pollen, gluten), dry skin . . . there's also such a thing as a stress-induced (or stress-worsening) rash.  I've experienced that, and big time.  Some cold compresses, cooling baths, drinking plenty of water, loose clothing and taking an antihistamine at bedtime can help.  I find that hydrocortisone cream makes my rashes worse; the only thing that isn't irritating to me is petroleum jelly.  Zinc oxide cream might help too.  If the rash persists for several days, he can go to the doctor to check it out.

I understand how stressful it can be when a loved one is incredibly moody.  My BPD stepdaughter is intensely moody, and when she was living with me, it felt like she was a smouldering volvano, ready to explode at the slightest provocation.  My husband can be like that too, but his volcano isn't as active, and his "eruptions" tend to be less intense as well as shorter-lived.  But by now, I know my husband's triggers.  A common one is hangriness.  He can get grumpy before dinner, especially if he didn't have a decent lunch.  He's also grumpy when he's stressed out (e.g. over an unexpected expense), over-tired or not getting enough attention.  Since I know the triggers and they are 95% predictable, I've learned to brace myself for his outbursts.  Mainly, I try really hard not to take his complaints and criticisms personally . . . because I know it's not really about me (though I'm always the focus); it's lashing out because of stress.  An example was that yesterday, he was hangry and, the second he walked in the door, he lashed out at me for not picking up the mail, even though he had passed the mailbox just seconds before.  He didn't notice any of the housework I did, nor the fact that I had dinner waiting for him.  No, he chewed me out about the mail, which is typically "his" chore.  It felt like he was looking for a fight.  But I didn't take the bait.  I didn't point out that I did a bunch of housework while he was gone all day on a fun trip.  I didn't defend myself.  I just went about my business and got out of his way--I didn't give him much of an opportunity to make things worse.  I didn't "engage" with his complaining and grumpiness.  Yeah, it's sad that he can be such a jerk sometimes, but I'm just done going above and beyond to make things "perfect" for him, because it doesn't matter what I do anyway!  He's going to be gumpy, and he's going to criticize me.  If he can't think of a obvious criticism or complaint, then he'll attack me for how (or where) I'm standing, or how I'm breathing, or how I'm looking at him, or how I'm not looking at him, or what I'm wearing, or how I did my makeup that day--not enough makeup and I'm criticized for not looking nice for him; too much makeup and I'm trying to flirt with another man; when reality is that my makeup is broadly consistent, day after day.  So, I just let him vent, I try not to take it personally, and I silently leave the room as soon as I can.  Fortunately for me, once he's had some food and a night's rest, he's usually back to his "normal" self the next day.

I guess that's my long-winded way of saying that when there's dysregulation that turns mean and/or nonsensical, a good strategy is to give them an "adult time out."  I think a time out works better than rewarding "bad" behavior with attention, and it also serves to protect your sanity better.  No JADEing, no advice, no solutions . . . because they aren't listening, and they don't actually want help in that moment, they want to blame someone else.  Save the explanations for later, when they're not dysregulated.

Hey Tim, welcome. Sorry to have met you under these circumstances. When you say separated, is this a legal separation through the courts while you two decide you want a divorce or not?  And yes, I'm assuming you're not a bad person, no one is perfect and I know I said some really mean things after years of constant abuse. They truly convince you that you're the worst person on earth, and when you believe that it starts to ruin your life. Any questions for us?

I'm so glad this is helping you. It's made my daughter worse after the first week. She is doing the nasal administration. After her first two treatments she had a major blowout and accused me of regularly beating her as a child, and after the third treatment she went no contact with me. Perhaps it's correlation not causation, but I suspect it's initially making her less stable. I hope it gets better. I'm using the time off to rebuild my tool kit and restore myself.

It's both sides of the same coin. "Borderline" was called that because it seemed to be on the line of neurosis and psychosis, and sometimes the borderline can act lucid and "normal" so to speak.

True change isn't quick. So when someone goes from raging and dissociated to appearing calm and nice in a short period of time, it's not that all will be OK from now on. Emotionally, it's hard to not wish for this or to hope for this and want to believe it.

My thoughts about this are- for me, I saw this "good side" as a form of masking. How sad for the pwBPD to think they are only acceptable when they are like this, but not truly loved for who they are.

And also, I got a bit jaded about it over time- as my BPD mother could be manipulative and so, if she was being nice to me, I wondered what is it she wants. I found it hard to trust this "side of her". The times she was angry and acting out felt more authentic- she wasn't in control of her behavior.

For me, the motivation to accept the whole package was more like radical acceptance-  to accept that she was who she was and attempts to change her, or to expect her to change weren't realistic or fair to her, really. That didn't mean accepting all of her behavior, or not having boundaries.

It also meant holding steady with my own self image and emotions no matter where she was on this borderline. It didn't mean not having feelings, but to be less reactive to her- and tone down the drama. She could be happy and saying nice things and then later, say I was terrible- but neither defined me. I didn't try to JADE.

Watch your emotions. If you go from despair and fear one moment to feeling like everything is fine, based on your son's phone calls and moods, this puts a lot of control on to his moods. This doesn't mean not having feelings- that mother- child bond is strong- it goes both ways. If my BPD mother was in distress- I had feelings about that.

However, her feelings didn't define me- it didn't mean I was a bad child if she felt that way and if your son is in distress- it doesn't mean you are a bad mother. If he asks for money and you say "no" he may react, and say hurtful things but his thinking doesn't make it true.

I'm planning to talk to my swbpd this Sunday.  We have a tentative agreement to meet up. I will let him know that I love him, I won't be his ATM. I go in and out of struggling with doing it and possible fallout... Last week he spiraled and was over the top disregulated over a rash that freaked him out as it spread over his body. Lots of drama. At the time my husband was done with living with it.  Tonight about a week later my son calls more happy, and relaxed than I've heard him in a long time. He called to say hi and see how we were doing. The truth is this is a part of who he is as well. Yes, there has been inpatient stays, suicidal talk, angry rants..... But there's this sweet caring part too. My struggle is having a hard time accepting the whole package. Have any of you struggled with the reality of the whole package?

Notwendy,
thanks for explaining the other groups. I will do a little research on them at some point. I have attended Alanon Adult Children meetings.
I agree my son has his own reasons regarding Kaiser. I realize that I need to step back for myself and him. I have let his pain, reactions, choices.... consume me.