This is what to expect with these people. My ex was like that too. Always had to start an argument that usually blew up on the drive home and carried on for hours.

And yes, I JADE a lot. To me, it's a common sense way of arguing...you make a crazy accusation up and I just have to accept it? No way. And somehow they never feel safe around us at some point. I never understood that when she's the one who was physically violent. I never even got in her face when arguing.

Hi there,

Welcome back from your trip.  Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but what I see here is that people like to be with you and open up to you.  That's a real asset in my opinion.

However, I agree that revealing intimate information, oversharing and/or emotionally dumping on you in the context of a casual relationship can be a red flag.  I'll give you an example.  My sibling was recently excited about a first date with someone who, on paper at least, seemed ideal.  They had met at a club, and they had some friends and interests in common.  But during the first date, she brought up the topic of prior abuse by an ex, volunteering the information, out of nowhere, using it to explain her reluctance to do certain normal activities.

When my sibling discussed the first date with me, we agreed that this was a giant red flag--oversharing, victim mindset, sympathy seeking--alongside a yellow flag (multiple food restrictions that she volunteered and discussed in detail).  Though at first he was disappointed, he felt fortunate to avoid a minefield.  Here's the kicker:  he was expecting that the date would reach out to thank him, because he had arranged a lovely evening, and he had spent most of it listening attentively, with understanding and patience, to her various "issues."  Well, she never even texted to say thanks.  That absolutely put the nail in the coffin.

I guess what I'm saying is, in a way, you might have the advantage of recognizing toxic behaviors, because you've navigated them for so long.  I think I've learned that, too, to some extent.  I don't think you should beat yourself up for encountering these types of behaviors from time to time.  Actually, I think these behaviors are almost ubiquitous.  In a group, there always seems to be that "difficult" person, who is entitled, demanding, self-centered, a drama queen, finding offense everywhere, manipulative, etc.  I think you're lucky to know it when you see it.  One place I've seen it frequently is in job interviews.  For example, the candidates who are highly critical of their prior workplaces, colleagues and former bosses.  The ones who never seem to stay anywhere for long, and can hardly come up with anything positive to say about their prior experiences.  These are also the candidates who don't extend the courtesy of sending a thank-you.  I guess I'm saying, I think it's important to be able to read the radar screen when it comes to general attitude.

All the best to you.

I had very similar experiences with my BPD ex wife.  If I said something rude, I was a terrible person.  If she said something rude, it was because I was a terrible person and she was the victim protecting herself.  And if I mentioned my feelings, she'd simply say, "That's not a thing...that's not real."

Once we broke up (after 23+ years), I had several of the same back and forth expeirences.  She'd come home, we'd go to do something, then she wanted to leave again.  Nothing happened bad betwen us, mind you, so the reasoning was all in her head and not based on our reality.  She just checked out and refused to let herself even consider that she was making a mistake.

Why?  I don't know, but if I had to guess I'd think its because she put herself through so much mental anguish over deciding whether to stay or leave, to convince herself that I was a complete monster, that she couldn't see a way back from it.  She'd say things like, "If i come home and decide to leave again, then I'm never coming back!" 

And I'd think, huh.  So you want to come home, but you know that eventually you'll want to leave and if that happens, then you'd never come back another time.  That's like grandmaster chess planning, only without using an ounce of logic.  Absolutely nothing about her thought process had anything to do with me- it was all her unregulated emotions.

Oh, and she was having an affair...that's the nugget that we learned later.  So it REALLY wasn't about me at all, even when she said terrible things about me to justify her secret hookups.  It was all projection.

I would add to that comment about loving perfectly- it is also possible that perfect isn't attainable, because the issues involve the other person's feelings. We can't control what someone else thinks or feels.

Pefect isn't attainable because, no human is perfect. Any two people are going to have differences and disagreements at some point. In an emotionally healthy relationship- conflict isn't all the time but when there is, each person has the ability to resolve them.

It is confusing when this turn around is out of the blue- you think things are going well, and then suddenly not. Why this happens, it's hard to know what is going on with the other person- but what you do know is that it did happen. Maybe it's BPD, maybe not- but whatever it is, you saw it happen.

Why she doesn't remember it? It can be dissociation- where the person is so flooded with feelings they have difficulty recalling what happened, or it can be denial- where they compartmentalized it, or shame avoidance. However, not remembering or not being accountable is problematic in a relationship.

What you can control is your own choice. If you are in this section, then you are moving on from the relationship. That you wonder, question yourself, that is a normal response to this confusing behavior. It may not be possible to know why she does that. It may not even be about you or anything you did or didn't do. Sometimes there's no closure with this, other than the closure you give yourself.

This being angry at you for walking with someone else is a  . The two of you weren't best friends for years, you were aquaintances in the park, and she says this.

Give yourself some credit- sometimes we don't know until we know. There is nothing wrong with meeting someone and being empathetic to their story. I think another    here is when she started speaking of very personal information if the two of you didn't know each other well, indicating poor boundaries. But all you did was listen to her.

I had something similar happen to me a while back. Someone I know not extremely well began sharing shocking information. I learned from others she would say the same thing to them, in situations where it wasn't really appropriate. Someone else who knew her better said they thought she had BPD.

Sometimes it's not possible to know at first that someone is disordered. People with PD's can hold it together at first, and it may be that later we get the sense that something is off about them. If you were to not speak to anyone- or ever meet someone- that would be a boundary that closed you off. A boundary can be semi-open- meet people, but take your time with them. I think where we wavered was listening a bit longer- due to our own family patterns and being empathetic. I thought this person who was saying TMI was odd- but odd is different from toxic. The TMI is the poor boundaries in sharing information. That may not be an issue if it were only with someone we see once in a while, in a public setting- we'd shrug it off as "well she's a bit odd" and keep a relationship distance from that person- cordial but not more.

Where this stepped into disorder is when she said that remark about being number one. That you recognized this is a boundary. We are going to run into people who are disordered at times, and a clue for ourselves is our own discomfort. We may take a longer time recognizing this due to our own family dynamics but - you did and now you know- this person - there is something "off" about her.

She comes to visit. Spent a nice couple of days together. Decide to do a picnic. I let her pack the picnic at my place so I can’t be accused of controlling or not listening etc.( yes I’m an expert now at accommodating ) we drive to the beach singing and laughing …so far so good. Drive around. Looking where to set up. She suddenly turns to me and says. ‘ I don’t want to do this’. I know the tone, the energy, the emptiness and the look all too well. Annoyed but silently I drive home , empty the car. Day ruined. She leaves. Says she has to go. Says never wants to see me again. I tell her I can’t do this either.
A few weeks later she is back ( silly me) and I ask her about ruining  such a fun day. She doesn’t remember why she felt the way she did or what triggered it, didn’t care that it hurt and annoyed the heck out of me , but said her feelings are always right.  Then dismissed it as not important by her lack of interest in it. Like it was a trivial thing.
Is this what they do. This is bpd isn’t it ? She isn’t diagnosed. But I’m pretty sure she has it. A psychologist once told me you have to love them perfectly. In every way in their eyes. One percent not perfectly and you are done.
It make me feel I’m going mad.
Any advice or comments will be appreciated 

I am always amazed at how the pwBPD can just cut you off so quickly and thoroughly. From moving her gear in in the early afternoon, six weeks back,  then we went out for dinner with friends and because I defended myself against a two nonsense  accusations that occurred between 5 pm and 9 pm, both in the car  and we had two arguments as I did the JADE thing, ( silly me) mainly at how ridiculous the accusations were, upon arrival back at home, she had packed back up and gone by 11 pm. Back to hers. Where she was moving from.  Said she didn’t feel safe. With me. The guy she has ‘ loved’ for 4.5 years.

No contact is so tough at times- my BPD daughter is 27 and we've been down that road many times.  Each time I got better at it in how to handle the situation and my part in it.

A few tips-

- Tell your kid you love her, that you forgive her, and you hope that she'll be able to forgive you.  I try to make this the first and the last thing I say to her when we're not speaking very much.  It validates her and causes anxiety at the same time- why would I forgive?  Why would I then ask for forgiveness?  What could be the motives for that?  Eventually she lands on the correct answer; my intentions are genuine.

- The times we're apart aren't my fault.  Maybe we both argued, maybe we both said or did things that upset the other person.  However, I'm always willing to forgive and start fresh...so it's not my lack of effort to fix things.  The stubbornness is all on her side and I can't change that.

- Sometimes the best lessons in life for BPDs comes from their own self-destructive tendencies.  If my kid is on a dark path, let her walk it and face the consequences.  It seems to be the only way she actually learns and grows.  I hate it for her, but that's not within my control.

- Notice all three points are not within my control.  If I can't control it, I accept it and let it go.  So I don't wait on edge for someone to do something that's outside of my control.  I simply move on and wish them well.  It's not my fault and I know eventually, the pendulum will swing back to me.  So be it.

For me, I had to continually remind myself that my BPD ex was sick and even the thought of contacting me brought her a ton of disordered thinking.

Think of it this way.  Let's say you're allergic to cats.  But every time you go to see your ex, everything is covered in cat hair.  You know you're going to sneeze, to cough, to have allergic reactions.  It's horrible.  But you have to go there to get your kids...and the kids will also be covered in cat hair since your ex is literally the "crazy cat lady".

That's sort of how it is for BPDs.  They realize deep down that they did you wrong, it brings them lots of anxiety, so they do things trying to control the situation.

Your ex is very sick.  Have compassion for her and help her whenever you can.  That changes the dynamics entirely.  I'm not saying to go out of your way for her like when you were married...I'm just talking in passing when you're in front of her for kid handoffs or whatever.