That's a trick question because "normal conversation" between two people and "normal conversation" for someone with BPD is two very different things.

Your ex left the relationship because of things he felt, and there's a good chance he was making a mental list of everything wrong with the marriage and how you could ultimately be at fault.  That doesn't mean any of it is true, but he's convinced himself of that narrative and it can often take years to get them to see it any differently.

For now though, the path is more about you healing from an unhealthy marriage to someone that's mentally ill.  At the moment, things are out of your hands so it makes more sense to focus on you.  Use this time to reflect, to heal, and make lifestyle choices that will set you up for long-term happiness and success. 

Maybe he's part of that picture down the road, maybe not.  Today you should focus on what you can control today (which is you).  The rest can wait for another day.

I don't know if this information will be helpful or not. There are codes of ethics and laws that require a therapist to stop treating a client that they are not helping. A therapist should not be keeping a client they are not qualified or able  to help. You can file a complaint with the board that oversees licensing therapists in your area.

Hi Mom,

The pwBPD in my life is my adult stepdaughter.  She has cut out everyone in her family (including parents, siblings, aunts, uncles and cousins), on and off, for years now.  When she does this, it's a sure signal that she's mad, and she wants to "punish" others with her absence.  It's ironic, because I think she wants closeness and belonging more than anything.  Sometimes I think that cutting people out is a way she tries to reclaim control, when her life feels totally out of control--but all she ends up doing is feeling alienated, in the name of "protecting" herself from "toxic" people.

If you read these boards, you'll see that cutting people out is a hallmark of BPD, directly related to the pattern of volatile and unstable relationships used in the diagnostic criteria.  It's almost so predictable that you can infer that things are amiss in your daughter's life right now.  Indeed, she's blaming YOU, to avoid taking responsibility for herself.  She's avoiding you, because her lack of mental toughness is preventing her from dealing with uncomfortalbe feelings, and she's retreating in AVOIDANCE.  You imply that your daughter seemed OK the other day and then did a complete 180?  That's very typical of her impulsivity and distorted thinking.  Instead of taking a breather, calming down, getting some perspective and evaluating context, she probably replayed interactions in her mind and twisted things to make you out to be the biggest villian possible.  Instead of calming down, she ratchets up and tries to hurt you by cutting you out.

While your daughter might feel neglected/second fiddle since you have been distracted by your own issues lately (namely, taking care of an ill husband), my guess is that's not your daughter's primary issue.  My guess is she's just latching onto that as a deflection from her underlying issues.  A 29-year-old getting all riled up and claiming intense hurt because you decline to host a holiday event, and then to cut you out and threaten never to see you again is not rational--it's designed to cast blame your way, inflict pain, exert control and express her despair in an extremely misguided way.

I know it hurts, but I have a couple of tips for you.  First off, I wouldn't stage any intervention, because I think it would backfire.  Even if your daughter has BPD, she doesn't want to hear it from you, and she certainly doesn't want to hear that you think she needs to get therapy.  She is adept at blame-shifting and would probably accuse you of "assaulting" her, hating her and being psychologically abusive.  She would likely project and insist that YOU are mentally deranged yourself.  She might be so loud and convincing that you might begin to doubt yourself . . .

Secondly, I'd advise not to "beg" her to resume communication, or even to reach out right now.  I think that begging only gives her incentive to continue to cut you out, because she's getting feedback about your hurt and concern.  In her distorted thinking, any begging from you is not only confirmation of your guilt, but also proof that her punishment is inflicting pain on you, leading her to try it again or take it to the next level.  My general advice would be to give her time and space to calm down, an "adult time out" so to speak, and not to interrupt the time out.  Let her come back to you, when she's ready.  My guess is that she will soon enough, when she needs something.  And my other guess is she'll pretend like the whole thing didn't happen.  My advice would be not to expect an apology, because she's incacapble of giving one (she always thinks you are at fault, and she avoids taking responsibility for her life).  You can go ahead and pretend like nothing happened, either.  In my opinion, that's not such a bad outcome.

If your daughter's self-enforced "time out" extends over several weeks, and if you haven't had any communication whatsoever but you feel you must reach out, then I'd advise to message her as if you would a distant cousin--for example on major holidays or her birthday--with a simple, bland and relatively emotion-free message like, Happy Holiday, hope you are well.  Please do not betray any of your own neediness/sadness or make any sort of demand, because the message shouldn't be about you and your feelings--your daughter has enough on her plate dealing with her own feelings.  That way, you are "including" her, while not demanding a response.  My guess is that she won't respond anyway.

In the meantime, you take care of YOU.  You can use the hiatus to get back to baseline.  If you're lucky, your daughter will still communicate with her dad, and you can keep tabs on her that way.  Even if she cuts you both out for a time, you can feel proud that she's making an adult's life for herself and coping on her own, probably for the first time.

I know you're her mom, and this hurts.  But your role is transitioning now.  You aren't responsible for your managing your daughter's life and feelings anymore.  You can't make her feel better or fix her life--she has to decide do that for herself.  In the meantime, I think you should model for your daughter what a healthy adult's life looks like.  That includes getting therapy for you if you think that would help.  That includes seeing friends and pursuing hobbies, too.  I'd say, focus on getting to a happy place so that when your daughter starts communicating with you again, you are in the right frame of mind to celebrate the birth of her child.  Based on what you've written, my guess is that she'll be back soon enough, when she needs something.  But if she doesn't need something and she remains distant for a long time, then you can be proud that she's coping on her own.

I meant to add I would feel depressed at times but I didn’t know why and it didn’t have anything to do with my wife at the time. This was before any monkey branching antics so before that might have been a trigger for me.

Yes with my ex she would ask me if I was ok or if something was wrong. I’d feel down or depressed about something but try not to show it. I would say I was ok, or that everything was fine.

Post breakup I told her that sometimes I wasn’t fine and felt depressed. So she picked up on my body language. Which in turn made her think it was her that made me feel depressed.

Towards the end of the relationship she would ask me more often. I think this was because she was monkey branching and her guilt or paranoia was checking if I had picked up on it. Subconsciously it probably had and that was why I felt depressed. Maybe if I hadn’t walked on eggshells and told her in the first place I was feeling down but I didn’t know why then things might have been different. At least it would or might have reassured her it wasn’t her. Ultimately though I think she would have left anyway for very unhealthy reasons I’ve mentioned elsewhere.

Just to clarify, I phrased this with an inaccuracy. X has in fact broken up with me many times in the past (and then not remembered/ acted like this never happened). when i say 'which we had not' here, I am referring to the relevant time period, i.e., we had explicitly agreed we were in a relationship, and nothing had been said or done since that moment, to renege on that.   

I apologise for being nitpicky and obsessed with precision, that's what gaslighting and instability does to you.

I'm curious.  You said she could come home for a day, and the day went pretty well.  So you let her stay a second day and it all fell apart.  I wonder if that alone explains what happened...she became so stressed the 2nd day over staying/leaving, it just all boiled over.

Your wife currently has emotional problems with you, so you'd see the brunt of her frustration.  These boundaries are also pretty new and it's perfectly normal for things to get worse before they get better; she's pushing back because she's used to being able to.  It's a transition period that nobody would handle well.

Why doesn't the mom receive the same treatment?  Because that's not new and mom's boundaries are established.  Also maybe because if mom kicks her out as well, there's nowhere left to go.  BPDs always have someone they're close to, and even though mom isn't ideal, that's what she has right now so she's making the best of it.  The relationship with mom lets her remain bitter with you...I'm guessing the opposite was true when you first got together.

It's also possible that your "firmness" could also be too strict for this transition.  Your boundaries should be based on her decisions...if she can't stop screaming, she can't stay.  That's fair and it's her choice.  But if she didn't lose it on day one and she was going to be kicked out anyway, that could cause a good bit of stress for anyone.

in terms of my personal circumstances, in general, i am quite precarious, have some cash flow problems, and am experiencing isolation. i also have a very solid set of projects which i can pursue on my own, which bring me joy, and a Buddhist spiritual practice.

thank you again for asking such insightful questions and keeping it real 

In terms of what I want - it's kind of hard to know because my sense of reality has been destabilised - how can you know what you want in the world when that world has been so shaken...

- there was a part of me that wants 'everything to go back to normal' i.e. the life we shared - which in some ways was very loving - to resume. however, it is integrating in my brain that some parts of that 'normal' - i.e., me being defined as 'horrible' for things that were actually 'normal bad', or the repeated, ongoing suicidal ideation placed on me with no attempt to get treatment or find other outlets - were not OK.   

- there is a fantasy part of me that wants things to be 'fixed'. what i would need to feel like 'fixing' is possible is as follows: i want X were to acknowledge, apologise and be accountable for the cheating, gaslighting and denigration he has enacted, and to enter formal mental health treatment.

if X were able to pursue that treatment and also to demonstrate an ability to be alone and to regulate their emotions, i would consider 'repair' of the relationship to be possible (though not certain). at a minimum, this would be demonstrated by X remaining/ making progress in treatment for one year, and also refraining from sexual and romantic relationships for the duration. This would go some way to demonstrating that X is able to regulate these actions, where he has been unable to in the past.

- The above is, of course, largely a fantasy. X has shown no interest in either accountability for his cheating or treatment for his mental health, though in previous situations he actually has shown great self awareness and accountability.

- If X does not commit to the above, I want to have nothing to do with him, though realistically we will continue to cross paths. I want to mourn the fantasy that has evaporated, and to heal.

If you're expecting a difficult conversation, your body shows it (whether you realize it or not) and your general demeanor will change.  BPDs sense these subtle changes and it could be the catalyst that starts the next argument without you realizing it.

Walking on Eggshells is trying to tiptoe around the problems at home, like if we pretend everything's fine, then it will turn out okay.  It often has the opposite effect though and it emboldens people with mental illness to lash out even more.

Think about it- if I yell at you about something and you don't reply, then everyone else is going to think your silence is admitting some type of fault or responsibility.  Hiding from the problem is a terrible strategy since it will only get worse in time.

With BPDs, it's a fine line between showing compassion and creating healthy boundaries.