We talked last night.  Difficult conversation for me to initiate because with W’s combative mood the past few weeks, my instinct is to avoid communication for fear of what it has been turning into. And I don’t want to have the role of “therapist” either.  She seemed like she wanted to talk and I did a good job of keeping the conversation productive.

I asked about this other woman, and asked if that if we were to have an open relationship was this the type of woman she wanted.  I asked if she was looking for a girlfriend or Just sex with a woman on the side.  That helped her open up some, and I learned this is probably is coming from a place of trauma and that she has never been able to have stable long term relationships or friendships because of an inability to control sexual urges and maintain boundaries.  after reading a book on poly relationships (suggested by the other woman), she felt validation that monogamy is not right for everyone.

After talking with her last night, she revealed that the current behavior and the behavior from her past is not about seeking pleasure or because monogamy is not what she wants.  It’s basically the push-pull of BPD.  I think most emotionally healthy people engage in sexual activity as an extension of emotional closeness.  What W described is that for her, sexual activity is to fill a void or to force an emotional closeness or satisfy a curiosity.  This current desire is probably rooted in loneliness and changes due to aging.  Healthy people can satisfy those urges through platonic friendships or hobbies or social groups. It seems that for W for her whole life that she tries to satisfy those feelings of loneliness through sex and knows no other way.  It sounds to me this is about wanting to feel emotional closeness outside marriage (as we all need) but not being able to separate sexual desire from the desire for emotiknal closeness. 

I'm a highly logical person so I completely get it, I'd argue and explain and justify and wonder why we kept going around and around in circles.

Most people are a mix of logic and emotion.  They don't sound like opposites, but they absolutely are.  Think about it, if you smash your finger in the door, you don't care what you say or how you react...it's just all emotion for that first 5-10 seconds.  Logic is the opposite of that, smooth and steady thinking to find the best possible solution.

If your husband is "not himself", there's a good chance he's in a disordered state and thinking with heightened emotions...like he just slammed his finger in the door and his brain is still reeling from the sudden shock of it all.  You must fight emotion with emotion:

- Oh my gosh, what happened?
- Are you okay, what's going on?
- What can I do to help?
- Let's talk about this and figure a way through it.


I'm not defending your husband here, but he is remembering it a different way because it was very different within his mind.  His emotions were saying that he was upset and confused, but the argument was about the dogs barking or whatever.  When you responded with logic, he's thinking, "Can't she clearly see what I'm going through right now?!?"

Mind you, he didn't SAY what he was going through, but his emotions SHOWED that he was facing something unspoken.  Then he just ranted about the first thing that frustrated him (the dogs, whatever).  For him, the argument was never about the dogs though...it was about you not loving him enough to understand what he was going through.

Why would he think that?  Because he needed affirmation and sympathy, he received logic.

I hope that helps!  I don't want to share too much at once and make it confusing.

I also thought my mother was doing surprisingly well and better than we expected after my father passed away, so I assumed that her helplessness was partially a consequence of enabling. It was an illusion. We just didn't know until it became obvious.

I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing to not be in a damaging relationship if that is the overall best decision. That Max's wife qualifies for SSDI and has documented psychiatric history could be in his favor for custody, it does add another complication to the decision to divorce.

I also wondered how much of my BPD mother's seemingly inability to manage on her own was affected by my father's enabling her, but I also didn't realize the extent of her impairment from BPD.

That she would not be able to hold a salaried job wasn't as obvious in her younger years because it wasn't expected of women at the time . I think in current times, she would have qualified for SSDI disability but also I think that  would have caused her shame.

While child custody was a likely concern for my father if he considered divorce, I also think her inability to manage on her own was a significant one too. She could have appeared competent in court, and gotten custody, but she wouldn't have been able to manage that.

I mention this because, while divorce is a consideration, the extent of your wife's impairment is an additional concern. It is like the bridge story- how to not go over yourself but also how to let go. I think that your wife is receiving SSDI is a significant step, but I think looking into what supports and services are available to her could be part of the legal inquiry of what to do if you do pursue divorce.

I also think at some level, your wife is aware of her struggles, even if she doesn't directly admit it. This is why I don't think she's going to jeopardize her marriage, and that her inquiry into open marriage is more imaginary than action. BPD mother often would back out of social plans at the last minute. My best guess is that your wife might agree to meet this person, maybe even get there but at some point back out. Possibly blame you- the "controlling husband" for it.

I found this book while reading “The essential family guide to borderline personality disorder.” Our daughter was diagnosed with bipolar and BPD a year ago.
Her symptoms started as a teenager about 10 years ago. We walk on eggshells all the time and her personalities and outbursts have controlled our family for so long, that many of us are broken emotionally and even suffering physical ailments from the stress.
She has two small children, and they all live with us. We would ask her to leave if it wasn’t for the children. We are the only stability that they have. We feel stuck and alone.
We’re looking for support and any advice available. Thanks!

Well, i certainly hope so.  But - she is 50 and the longest she has held onto any job - any - is maybe 2 years.  She was given permanent SSDI disability before she turned 30 - and that is jot easy to get.  So someone at some point before the age of 30 determined that she was unlikely to be able to support herself financially - ever.  Could she maintain an income without me?  I don’t  know, but her history says no.

While your spouse is certainly different than my ex, BPD exists across a broad spectrum, let me explain something I had noticed in my case over the years...

I had been married over a decade and watched my hard working spouse gradually display more and more poor behaviors, more of the behaviors that fit the Borderline traits.  Little did I realize it, but when I came up with the idea for her to feel better with a child, it made our marriage worse.  As I look back, she unconsciously perceived me morph from a husband to a father, triggering her childhood FOO of an abuser stepfather and a complicit mother.  Our marriage imploded before our child was 4 years old.

As I stated above, she was hard working all those years.  But she stopped working and became a SAHM once she was a mother.  Home life became filled with her arguments, rants and rages like never before.  In the final months she was moaning and groaning so much, slamming doors and locking herself in with our child at night.  Never could I ever imagine she could dig herself out.

Then we separated.  Suddenly, she morphed again.  I never heard her moaning and groaning again.  It's been two decades and she went back to work and has supported herself over the years.  Yes, there was short term spousal support and child support that helped her until I was awarded majority time, but apparently her financial life worked out.  She's still what I consider somewhat dysfunctional in relationships but otherwise she is functional enough to get things done in her life.

Might your spouse be of that sort, where she might do better post-marriage than she leads you to expect?  Could the support you've provided for years be allowing her to let herself remain financially unproductive and claiming to be helpless and dependent?

Maybe she can't take care of herself.  That might be so.  But isn't it possible she can take better care of herself if/when she has to?  Just a thought.

Hi Anon57 and welcome
I do remember quite vividly when my DD announced she was pregnant! Just a few questions – is DD living independently and if so how often do you see her/have contact with her? Also how often does bf come and stay with your DD?

I remember being very aware that I would not be around for ever. So I kept wondering if the best thing I could do for my DD was to support her and the child so that when I wasn’t around there was some sort of ‘family’. Then lots of other scenarios and possibilities went through my mind.

You mention your DD is recently diagnosed – I am wondering if she is taking any medication for depression? This is like a whole new chapter perhaps now that there is a diagnosis and hopefully something for the depression. When my DD did take antidepressants it made a huge difference in relation to raising the bar as to what would trigger her anger, but the signs of BPD were still clearly there.

I find that ways to avoid huge problems often come to my mind – when in fact I have little or no control over my DD’s decisions. The main thing that strikes me is you are so exhausted from the journey so far, so I think focusing on how you can get a ‘time out’ from it all is an absolute priority.

Is there any chance you can take a few days, a weekend or just overnight and go somewhere to sleep and recoup a little? If not, is there another way you can get a time out or two or three in your week?

In many ways this is a new chapter – whether or not DD does become pregnant. It is new because you need to look at this next period of time in a different way – as I do, just because we are getting older.

I hope there is some possibility of you creating some ‘space’ that is a DD-free zone – as the first step in this new chapter.             

Hi Great-Lakes-Mitt and welcome
Your position is different in that you have been no contact for quite some time and live a fair distance from your DD and GS. Do you have any information on how DD is going at the moment -why I ask is that for some people with BPD, the symptoms can lessen, while for others that is not really the case.

So I think first step would be to try to find out how your DD is travelling at the moment if you don't already know. Is that possible. It makes a huge difference as to how you move forward for many different reasons: it might open the door to considerable problems for you and it might trigger your DD's intense sense of abandonment which she may be coping okay with.

Is there any contact at all that you have kept up over the years eg Christmas/birthday and if so how has that gone? Sorry for all the questions!

Pete - a valid concern, but in my case I am not too worried about this.  My W can’t hold it together under any kind of stress, especially to any authority.  She also would be afraid to ask for more than 50/50 because she knows that if she did it would put her life under a lens to which she finds risky considering her history of mental hospitals, unemployment, and unstable relationships.

In fact, she cites this as a way I “control” her.  In her mind, me saying that I would want 50/50 custody forces her to remain in the marriage because she can’t accept anything less than 100% and that if she challenges she knows she will lose because the court is “sexist”.  She then claims her only solutions is to “kill herself”.

My hope would be to find a way for her to be okay with 50/50 until the raw emotions fade and reality kicks in.  After that, things either remain that way or have worked themselves out naturally.  I have zero worries that a court would find a way to give me less than 50% parenting time.