I'm honestly not sure, apparently it was sent while on a 2-hour drive with his Mom (other kids in the backseat confirm) but he wasn't upset or arguing or crying or anything...which is odd if he were really writing that kind of email I'd expect some level of rage or biting back angry tears...but they report he was totally fine...which raises the chances it's a pre-written email that his mother just hit "send" on when she got out to pump gas or something. It's also a brand new email account for him, not his regular one at all - making it more odd...is he hiding it from Mom, or is she hiding it from him?

He does struggle with either BPD symptoms, or possibly just mirroring BPD stunts he's seen performed by his mother so many times- it's not healthful by any metric - so I'm still concerned, even if this might be his mother's hand on the keyboard.

Hi there,

Abuse might be traditionally thought as physical, but it can be emotional as well.  Take the situation of someone beating their spouse, for example if the spouse stayed out "too long" running errands or waved hello to a neighbor of the opposite sex.  A beating in that scenario would be considered abusive.  But let's say that instead of a physical beating, it's a verbal one:  shouting, insults, false accusations (e.g. of having an affair), threats (e.g. of divorce), a total meltdown.  The spouse might feel that they are subject to a curfew or house arrest, because going out without "permission," or saying hello to another human being, leads to a verbal onslaught.  The "rules" apply only to the abused party, whereby the disordered spouse exerts inordinate control, while the disordered spouse is free to do whatever he pleases.  The verbal attacks are abusive because they are unwarranted, not proportional to the situation, mean, bullying, intimidating and designed to control, alienate and restrict freedoms.  The mere threat of retribution might be enough to bend the abused person's will, and maybe they start to question history and their very identity.

At the end of the day, emotional abuse can be extremely alienating, in the sense that you're not only alienated from family and friends, but also alienated from your true self . . . disconnected from your own emotions, needs and identity, leading to chronic stress and living in survival mode.  Does that sound about right?

*a way of identifying that the harms are very serious

The other week, a friend I had confided in at length about my experience with uBPDx told me there would be steps forward and back as I recovered, and that 'this is normal in getting over an abusive relationship'.

I didn't necessarily see the relationship as abusive (though certain acts within it, were), but I didn't challenge friend's terminology since the dynamic seemed accurate.

Yesterday, I was chatting to another friend and said something like, it's funny that person used the word 'abuse' although obviously it wasn't. Other friend gave me this look of like, 'are you crazy?' and asked how I could possibly say that after having written out and described the series of events in such detail to them.

I have some complicated feelings about this. One is to wonder whether I've misrepresented or exaggerated in some way. But with both these friends, I've been very careful to set out the facts in detail and at length, including my own misdeeds and mistakes. So I don't think their assessment is due to my 'putting a finger on the scale', so to speak.

A belief I have is that the word 'abuse' should be used carefully and precisely lest it obscure more than it clarify. My own definition involves the repeated use of a pre-existing power dynamic to do harm, and/or actions which both harm another person and entrench power over them, thus creating a power dynamic.

For example, according to my own definition, uBPDx cheating on me was a toxic, harmful act, but it was not abusive. However, belittling and insulting me for being upset about it afterwards, was. To harm someone and then denigrate them for reacting is abusive, as it reduces their ability to identify and protect themselves from harmful acts in future.

I'm curious as to what people think the significance of designating a relationship as 'abusive', is. Is it a moral thing - the harms that came to me were not my fault? I believe this - however, this can also be true for relationships that are not abusive.

Is it a causal thing - there was nothing I could have done to avoid the harm? I think this is incorrect. There was nothing I could have done to save the relationship, but I think there were, in fact, many things I could have done to avoid harm.

Does it imply something about the obligations of other people around me and uBPDx?

Does it imply some kind of judgement about uBPDx?

Is it useful primarily as a descriptive term, or as something almost quantitative - a way of identifying that the harms are ?

What do you think?

This is very interesting- thanks PearlsBefore.

Tell-Hill I also love MJ's music and have been looking forward to the movie. It's interesting that you also picked up on him calling his father by his first name. I did too. I asked my H (who did not have an abusive parent) about that and he didn't notice that. That was interesting too. It wasn't a shared experience for him.

I also referred to my BPD mother by her first name. I didn't do this to her face- she would have felt insulted and disrespected, but when referring to her, I did not call her "Mom". In a way, it seemed difficult for me, emotionally, to call her that. It wasn't disrespect. It was a way of emotionally protecting myself.

The movie did address Joe's abuse. Likely they didn't show the whole of it. Still, it was enough for me to feel an emotional response to it. I think a movie like Jules and Jim would be very difficult to sit through. In this one, Joe was not a focus and it was still hard to watch the scenes with him in them.

What also came through was the complexity of the relationship. Joe had a vision for his boys and it was through this vision and discipline that they rose from poverty. It did benefit the boys but Joe took it too far.

I will add that my BPD mother didn't beat me or use a belt like Joe did. She was different, but I think a common effect is that a child doesn't feel emotionally safe with a parent who has inconsistent behavior.

Jaafar Jackson did a superb job in the role. While many people can impersonate MJ, they can not bring the emotion of being his nephew into the role. How he did this was truly moving. It was not just an acting job to him.

This time last week after a particularly bad episode, I was pretty sure I needed to end this relationship.  After a few days of thinking, I was 99% sure I wanted to work harder about making it work.  But now I am back to being on the fence, or at least on the fence about being on the fence. 

FD- you just found what I experienced as a "flip" in my father's thinking. At one moment he seemed aware of the issues with my BPD mother and then, it was as if nothing happened. It also seemed to parallel my BPD mother's way of suddenly erasing in her mind what had just happened and she was "acting good now" at least for the moment. I saw this happen many times. During the times BPD mother appeared relatively "good"- it's as if he somehow was in a state of forgetfulness. It was this dual mindset that seemed to keep them in this relationship pattern.

The status quo seemed to be this. BPD mother had her behaviors, and Dad's response was enabling/compliance. While at times it seemed things might have gotten so difficult he might consider divorce- the situation might settle and then, it was as if whatever happened didn't happen.

But we kids did see what happened and it seemed that no matter what my BPD mother did- it didn't change this pattern. We talk about boundaries here but boundaries are the bottom line for us- what would we act on. What are actions we don't ignore or go along with? I don't wish to post all the behaviors we either witnessed or experienced, but some were similar to what Max has posted about and yet, each time, there was this "flip" in his thinking and actions. If there's nothing that prompts taking action, then these are not boundaries.

I also agree with CC43's post about how enabling fosters a perpetual dependency, and how not having boundaries or consequences or responsibilities perpetuates a child-like existence and mindset. How this happens seems to be a chicken-egg question. Was this enabling an adaptation to BPD mother's disability or did it keep her that way? And why did my father enable? I don't know. I think one thing was that it gave him a momentary reprieve from her behavior, and when BPD mother was escalating, in the moment, one wanted relief.

I think people balk at the term co-dependency because, they aren't the dependent ones in the traditional sense. Dad was the wage earner, the more emotionally stable one. I also am an independent type person- so when a counselor brought up co-dependency with me, it didn't make sense but I took her advice and went along with it. Eventually I understood more about the concept and why she made that recommendation.

FD mentioned family of origin and this can be where this starts, because these traits are seen as positive in the FOO and also in general- caring, compassionate, able to tolerate a lot. These were the "normal" in my family and they aren't bad traits in general. It's when they are done to the extreme, and perpetuate dysfunction, that they are considered co-dependent.

We may not see our own co-dependent behaviors as problematic if they were the "normal" in our FOO. Or they may be an adaptation to the dynamics in a relationship with a person who has a disorder.

In general, people don't take action to change unless a situation becomes so intollerable they see change as the only option. If someone is being enabled and doesn't experience consequences of hurtful behavior- there's not motivation to change. Same for the person who is in the enabling position. Perhaps it's a difficult situation but is it difficult enough to take action?

So sorry to see what you're going through; you're not alone.  We've all been through this as the BPD 'script' never varies.


At the moment he's got what he sees as 'the best of both worlds' - he still has you to chase after him but, in his mindset of blaming you, he also thinks he's entitled to look elsewhere too. A BPD fears being alone more than anything so to have 'options' - irrespective of who they are - is reassuring to them. It's a sad sympton of the illness that they can switch from person to person with an alarming lack of empathy.

You're doing the right thing by not playing his chase game - all that's doing is confirming to him that you're still there so he can play you all the more. Hard though it may be, you need to put yourself first - I'm sure you don't want to continue as things have been, even if it means the end of the relationship. Everyone has their limits and their right to a happy life. From my own 4-year BPD relationship I know that once you show them you're willing to play their games, they'll only keep the games going as they thrive on the conflict.

Be aware that even if he does contact you there is no guarantee of his sincerity if he sees you as the only available 'option' at the moment. What they want is purely dictated by their emotional state at the time and you could be back in the same situation time after time. Trust is impossible when someone has BPD as they're playing with no rules or  standards - not their fault, just the nature of the illness.

Best wishes.

Thank you your post was very validating - and an excellent example of how to make something like this work long term. Or at least tolerable.

I am in therapy now working with a therapist on boundaries and how to problem solve the relationship. I find myself wondering if I did something to mess things up because I know Ive responded very ineffectively at times and effectively at other times. He continues to be extremely avoidant and the more avoidant I am towards him he responds with more avoidance. I dont want to play the chase game anymore which is what hes waiting for -for me to come back to him and Im not going to do it this time. Im going to continue to avoid and treat him exactly how he treats me. I have communicated my true feelings through text- Ive told him what I value, that I love him and want to stay with him. Ive made it very apparent that I AM not doing well right now. But its just weird because he seems to be perfectly content with the avoidance while I am not. Im in extreme pain and depression. I miss him. I love him. But I dont want to give in. He needs to be the one to reinitiate contact this time. I dont think he will He will continue to avoid and then leave once hes found someone else. Hes already looking for other women so

It doesn't sound like something a 13 year old would say or write. Do you think his mother wrote this?

I think a mother would have access to a 13 year old's email, even in "normal" situations as a security check so she could get into it as him.

Teens don't usually write such long paragraphs and this is unusual language for a 13 year old, even a very bright 13 year old. To bring up terms like restraining order, research, hiring a hit man- this isn't a young teen's usual world.

Since he's acting more normal around you, I wonder if he actually wrote these. It sounds more like his mother did.

I have my uses.