Wow, does all this sound familiar, except that in my case it’s a sibling who doesn’t see a therapist. I am so very sorry for what you’ve been through and continue to go through.

I know that feeling of guilt for having times of peace and enjoyment.  Strangely, the less involvement I’ve had with my pwubpd, the more that feeling has gone away. I think it’s because of greater clarity about what I can and can’t do. And I’ve also played that game of talking to myself the way I’d talk to a friend experiencing the same thing. I’d never think they deserved that.

There are many posts here of people talking about estrangement. They usually say that they reach out with a card or some such on birthdays, holidays, etc. often the person comes back around but less frequently and with less intense involvement.

I think being a parent is a special situation that I haven’t experienced so I’ll stop there. Just sending support for you in this especially hard time.

My daughter, 34 was diagnosed with BPD at 18 after 3 serious suicide attempts in the prior 2 years.  We all went to dbt therapy and she sort of was better.  She is very bright and went to university after a break of 2 years and graduated.  She was working until last year, when she quit her job because she was depressed and her boss was making her suicidal.  She recently started looking for another job which is very stressful and she is still depressed.   
Her dad and I are traveling overseas and last week she said was thinking she wanted to visit us in Oct and Dec.  Unfortunately, I had had a bad morning dealing with some unexpected bills so I asked her if she was paying for one of the flights which caused a huge upset.  She is very last minute about plans and makes it very difficult to make arrangements because I don't necessarily have accommodations for her and it is unclear at least to me what she is planning until the last moment.  She said all other parents would be happy their kids wanted to spend time with them and that I was just so selfish and cold to her.  She said that I never help her and brings up things I did/said wrong from years ago and that her therapist said I am not empathetic or mothering.  I feel constantly on guard when I am around her.
I was going to therapy to deal with the emotional turmoil last year from when her dad told her to go home when she was yelling at me about past things and wouldn't stop.  (Not getting invited to her dad's cousin's kid's wedding that she hadn't seen in 10 years, letting them stay at my house when she wasn't invited to the wedding, me buying a vacuum even after she said it was stupid and other similar things.)  It was all my fault, I didn't care and she was never going to forgive me.  My therapist will only see me (even remotely) if I am in the same state, so I am not currently seeing them.  
Yesterday, my dwBPD called and said that she thought we should just give up on having a relationship because I don't realize how much pain I cause her.  She said she thought that me going to therapy would help but that I am never going to change and she just can't deal with all the pain that I continually cause.  
Usually we end up with me apologizing for the things she says I was wrong about and her not really accepting the apology since it comes out again the next time she is upset.  Then we muddle along again.  
A prior therapist said if I keep doing the same things why would I expect different results.  I just don't know what to do.  I do feel selfish when I'm not worrying about her and enjoy something.  
Sorry this is so long of a first post and thank you for reading.

Seems like a number of us feeling down. We have been through/are going through something truly challenging. Please something that will bring you some joy and know that this too will pass.

Many of us, perhaps most of us, never had confirmation that the other was diagnosed with BPD.  Partly that is due to their avoidance of therapists.  So what we do is ponder the evidence (documented behavior and actions) and conclude what fits.  It's not an official diagnosis but it's enough to guide us in how we deal with whatever it is.

That was my situation.  I had been married for over a decade when I thought having a child with my spouse would make her happier upon seeing our child discover the joys of life.  How clueless I was!  So when we separated we both were ordered by the court to get Psych Evals.  They aren't in-depth assessment but they're better than nothing.  Mine was by a university grad student.  My report?  Anxiety.  Yeah, Sherlock, that was obvious after what I went through.

What was my ex's report?  She never turned one in.  For all I know she never got an evaluation.  I learned some lessons.  They may not apply here, but I mention them in case it helps anyone.

• Many times when it goes to court one is cast as the victim and the other as the perp.  In many cases the court only orders an examination of the accused.  Because the situation may really be the reverse, when a court orders investigations, try to get both parties to be examined.
• With us knowing there may be non-compliance, have our lawyer not submit the report until the other side is ready to submit theirs.

Good list, thanks Hotchip. I have been ruminating too much lately. Feeling quite sad and alone. At least I have stayed 5 months no contact already.

Hi there,

I'm sorry that things have gotten out of control in the relationship with your pwBPD.  I know you know that violence isn't the answer, and that you feel awful.

Here's the thing though.  You know you were wrong, and you know there's no excuse.  You let things get out of control, probably because you were trying really, really hard to make the relationship work.  And your pwBPD takes advantage of that, manipulating you.  Your mistake in my opinion was to let him get away with too much.  The irony is that YOU feel bad about it, when objectively, the root cause of the blow-ups is the pwBPD's atrocious behavior.

I've noticed with the pwBPD in my life, that sometimes it appears that she's manufacturing a scene, in order to provoke another person into doing something they might regret.  Typically the scene involves over-the-top behavior on her part, actions that always seem disproportionate to the situation--the emotional outbursts, the cruelty of insults, the duration of a tantrum, the accusations, the physicality, the dire threats, the refusal to participate as a collaborative/rational person, whatever.  Sometimes it seems to me that her unspoken goal is to get the other person to crack.  And when they do, typically with a reaction that's minor compared to what she's done just moments before, well, she pounces all over that.  Suddenly, she focuses on the latest offense, and then doubles down.  She shifts into full-on blame mode.

In the most extreme form of this tactic, the pwBPD will completely flip the script.  Their version of events will highlight your small reaction, while ignoring their own behavior leading up to the break.  Sometimes this is psychlogical manipulation strategy is known as DARVO, short for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.  Typically the result is that YOU end up apologizing for your behavior, when the behavior of the pwBPD was worse and is what started the debacle.

At the core of this strategy is blame-shifting.  In my experience with pwBPD, the victim mindset is pervasive, as is the inability to take any responsibility for their actions.  After all, a pwBPD is convinced that others are causing their distress.  So this is not only an EXCUSE to act out and be mean to you, but also an attempt to get a rise out of you, so they can pin absolutely everything on you.  They feed on that reaction while blaming you for everything.  By blaming you, they feel increasingly justified in treating you badly, while they generally won't feel any responsibility.  My guess is that you never, ever get an apology from a pwBPD.  Does that ring true?

What to do about all this?  I think you have to recognize when you're being provoked earlier, and leave the scene earlier.  It comes down to boundaries.  You don't let people treat you like crap because you deserve better.  When they start crapping all over you, no matter how sorry you feel for them, that doesn't give them the right.  You leave the scene and only engage when they are treating you better.  I know this is easier said than done.  I'm working on it all the time.  I've found it helps to have a Plan A and a Plan B for certain situations.  For me, that usually means creating an "adult time out," time and space away from the pwBPD.  Usually that involves going to another room, but sometimes it might mean taking a walk in nature or getting out of the house--a quick errand, a stop at the library, parking in a tranquil spot.

Just my two cents.

Combined with the drastic personality change after dissociation, which I’ve witnessed myself, it’s actually a little frightening. I wonder where that kind of magical thinking comes from in people with BPD, if it’s common among them.

Really? No way! That is mind blowing

Well there’s a thing. My ex was,is, adamant she is a witch too, and also told me I am an extraordinary person capable of extraordinary things. I’ve got a feeling this might be quite common among bpd’ers

Ashesanddust, I'm so sorry you're going through this. You sound like me just a few months ago, and other people on this site and elsewhere very kindly and gently helped me through the process. It does get better, I promise.

I do not believe either of the situations you have described constituted abuse enacted by you against your partner.

To my mind, abuse is one person in a relationship using power over the other to harm them, and to entrench a dynamic where one person dominates and the other is subservient. Usually abuse is cyclical and ongoing, but one-off acts can be abusive if the intensity of harm and disparity of power is large enough. For example, punching your girlfriend in the face is abusive even if it only happens once.

What you describe does not meet that threshold for me. Slapping someone after they have viciously insulted you for hours using horrible misogynistic words, invaded your privacy by going through your phone, physically assaulted and intimidated you by trying to push you out of bed... this is a *minor* physical altercation. You were not seeking to dominate or entrench a dynamic where you had power over your partner. You were expressing a completely natural, normal and in my view, proportional reaction - in the face of a sustained threat to your physical and psychological safety.

Similarly, your partner's actions in terms of threatening suicide, holding up knives, smearing and berating you, etc etc - this is not the behaviour of someone who is being victimised and subservient. Far from it! Your response was, again, an understandable reaction to someone who was behaving violently towards *you*. Sometimes when we are being threatened and harmed, we lash out. It's not great, but it happens.

Most people think that violence is generally bad, but make an exception for self-defence. While your actions might not be perfect, they can't be judged in the same way as if you had, say, walked up to a helpless little child who had done nothing to you and slapped them. It was probably not helpful action to respond by slapping him, as it did not solve or de-escalate the situation. But it wasn't an unprovoked act of aggression and I do not think you need to beat yourself up over it.

I had a very similar situation - if you scroll back through these threads you'll find a post of mine, 'what's the use in calling it abuse?' - it might help you to read that.

Sending care.