I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry you're in this position.  I can't imagine what you've been through and you've had so much patience over the past year or so.  My situation was similar (my wife left for another man), but I can't imagine her wanting to move back home after thoroughly destroying our household, our finances, and our family.

Please keep us updated! 

I dont have much to add to everyone else's comments, but I will say that you almost perfectly described the relationship with my daughter from 18ish to about 23.  We kicked her out too, and we said that she could come home if she'd follow a few common sense rules.  After two years, she came home for 2 or 3 weeks, then she was right back out.  And we said the exact same thing, it was her choice.

Fast forward a few years and my daughter went through an ugly, bitter breakup.  She took advantage of her best friend and her partner, trying to play them against each other, and they both cut her off.  It WRECKED HER and she asked me to pick her up and bring her to a treatment facility.  Within the next year, her life completely changed as she began to take therapy seriously.  Today at 27, her therapist has talked about ending appointments because she feels my kid is in full remission and doesn't need therapy anymore.

I just wanted to say that I've been exactly where you're at, facing the exact dilemnas.  Let her be comitted!  Let her try to manipulate the system and let it all crash down around her!  The more pressure she's under, especially in a heavily controlled environment like in-house therapy, the more likely she takes it serious and begins to change her life.

Everything else you talked about is pure manipulation and it's evil.  But that's how desperate she is to force everyone else to bend to her will.  Your response should be exactly the same as if I made those threats towards your husband or a stranger you saw in the mall....serious stuff deserves a serious response. 

Do not walk on eggshells and if she threatens harm/self harm, dial 9-1-1 and report it immediately.  If she is a threat to herself or others, she'll go under a manditory phych hold in the USA.  And while that's often a joke of a process, it sends a very clear message that threats or manipulation are not okay.  So let her learn that.

Good luck to you- hopefully my kid's story gave you a bit of hope.  She's literally a different person today and we are so thankful!

Indeed, I've seen something similar with my disordered brother-in-law, and also with the pwBPD in my life--not only concerning food, but with other self-care routines that most of us take for granted.  Things like cleaning the home, attending to one's health (medical / dental appointments), taking care of laundry/dressing appropriately, being responsible for bills, home mainetnance, etc.

I think Notwendy has a good point, that part of the issue is the emotional need to feel cared for.  But I'd add that there are probably some deficits in executive function and general life skills as well.  Part of the deficit is not having the scaffolding of a regular routine; in this case, we're dealing with the healthy routine of getting three square meals a day.  Most parents teach their kids that they should have breakfast in the morning, lunch mid-day and dinner in the evening, and be sure to eat some fruits, vegetables and protein before any sweets.  Right?  Sticking to a normal routine means that people generally get the fuel and nutrition they need, while the schedule fits into normal patterns and societal expectations, such as school and the workplace.  Most people come to realize that if they skip a meal, they get too hungry, so it's best to stick to the routine as much as possible.  And they learn to read their body's physical cues, like, it must be dinnertime, because my stomach is grumbling. 

What I've noticed with pwBPD and NPD is that routines tend to fall apart, because WANTS trump NEEDS.  Reaching for junk food feels much easier and more gratifying in the moment than investing a little time and energy in preparing something nourishing.  They just don't follow "normal" routines in my opinion.  And that makes daily decision-making that much harder.  Whereas I practically run on autopilot when it comes to making most of my meals, for them, they don't have an autopilot, except for the one that says, do whatever is easiest and most appealing moment to moment.

I think that the combination of a lack of a healthy routine, combined with long-term overfunctioning by the other adults in their life, results in the pwBPD not developing competence in some basic life skills.  To illustrate, when I was growing up, I helped my parents with everything.  I did all sorts of chores, year after year.  One of my responsibilities was helping with meals.  I accompanied my mom on hundreds of grocery shopping trips.  I help pick out fruit, vegetables, meats, eggs, etc., especially items on sale.  I helped with check-out and with carrying groceries into the car and house.  I helped unpack the food, wash items that could be washed and put things away.  The same went for making meals:  I helped make breakfast and dinner the overwhelming majority of the time.  By18, I had accumulated the experience of preparing thousands of meals, from shopping to prep to cooking to setting the table to washing up.  Those thousands of instances of real-life experience meant that I was competent with the skills of feeding.

But when it comes to BPD, I think they miss out on formative experiences like that, because their emotional needs and instability are just too much to handle.  In the moment, the adults around them determine that it's just too hard to ask them to contribute anything.  Fast forward to adulthood, and oftentimes, pwBPD literally don't have practice with mundane skills of self-care, in this case feeding.  Each individual step:  planning, shopping, creating a menu, prepping, cooking and cleaning up feel too OVERWHELMING.  Not only that, but the lack of practice means that whatever they might attempt to throw together just doesn't seem appealing.  It's always easier to "delegate" and get someone else to do all this for them, or reach for junk food.  As they do this, year after year, their executive function skills (and general life skills) appear to be childlike.  Why?  Because they are "stuck" at a child's level.  Over-functioning by the adults around them, in the name of making life easier, means that the pwBPD doesn't get practice.  Actually, that situation could lead to shame:  the pwBPD knows that they're incompetent, and to avoid those feelings, it's easier to give up and not even try.

Of course, there's the sense of entitlement, too:  since others have fed them in the past, they demand to be fed and cared for, as it's what they are used to and have come to expect.

Just my two cents.

In this situation, you're literally playing with fire without even realizing it.

Why?  Your BPD partner wants you to chase them, but if you chase them then they take it as proof that everything they accused you of is 100% valid.  If you don't chase them, there's a chance that they'll reach out to you but it's just as likely that they'll take it as a sign of abandonment and move on.

In my opinion from having this exact conversation dozens of times here over the years, you're better off not reaching out.

With that said, there's a chance that the relationship is not salvagable at this point.  So what's best for your ex might not be your biggest priority anymore.  What's best for you?  And what would you be looking for by reaching out?  A second chance?  Closure?  Telling her off?  Tell us why you'd reach out and we can give more specific advice.

That's semi-true.  The BPD's main problems in relationships is themselves, and none of us can "fix" mental health in anyone else.  You can absolutely learn to be more supportive, less judgemental, more validating, etc and it will serve you well in all of your relationships moving forward (from family to work to new love interests).  And there's many here that have made BPD relationships work for a very long time by using those skills.

The other side of the coin, however, is that the non-BPD is playing by an unfair set of rules where their feelings and emotions are often placed on the backburner.  For instance, my ex wife would start to scream at me over something ridiculous that had nothing to do with me, and I could choose to yell back (wrong move) or lovingly calm her down (right move).  That's easy to do in a vaccuum, but over a lifetime it's almost impossible to always get it right.

Will one blowout lead to breaking up?  It could under the right circumstances, but usually it doesn't.  That's why I said your doctor's statement is only semi-true. 

You are correct in that to qualify for SSI/Disability Medicare- a person has to meet certain criteria and there needs to be medical documentation. One is: Severe Impairment: You must have a physical or mental medical condition that significantly limits your ability to perform basic work-related activities and it must be long term. Someone made this assessment of your wife when she was in her 20's. BPD alone is not sufficient to qualify for this.

Nobody chooses this or would want this but this is also a situation where she is eligible for some assistance. Being married, that might impact what she qualifies for. I know an adult who is receiving SSI and Medicare because of a physical disability. She has SSI, Medicare, and is in a subsidized apartment for either over 50 or 55. The building was recently built, and seems to be on par with other apartments in the area. One difference is that this person is a self sufficient mentally intact adult, she can meet her basic needs, but her housing and medical insurance is covered. If it ever came to divorce, your wife may be eligible for some similar material support.

In her elder years, she might meet income determination for Medicaid. Medicaid covers skilled nursing homes and also in some cases, some home health care. I knew an elderly man who had these services covered by Medicaid.

My BPD mother was not eligible for these services. In her era, many women didn't work outside the home. In her 20's. the expectation for her and her peers was to get married. There would not have been an assessment for if she could be employed or not. She did get through college, I don't know how your wife could have done that with her emotional issues- even if she is intelligent- on an intellect level, as my mother was, being able to keep up with a schedule, assigments, would be a challenge. My BPD mother lived at home for part of her college- perhaps she needed that kind of support but it would not have been unusual in her time.

How could you have missed it? Because pwBPD can mask well initially. It's not being deceitful. It's the nature of the relationship as BPD affects the closest relationships the most- so it would be after the relationship got closer and more committed that more of the behaviors would be seen. There are people who knew my mother who never had a clue. I don't think my father did, and in their time, BPD wasn't well known so there wasn't a name for her behavior.

BPD mother didn't not eat but her eating patterns were odd. She didn't cook, or grocery shop. BPD and eating disorders are common and she was concerned about her weight, and so wouldn't eat a lot during the day but would then eat later at night.

Where I see a difference between the usual eating disorders is that your wife comes to you wanting to be fed. This doesn't happen with anorexia- and with binge eating, the eating is often in secret. They don't come to another person asking to be fed. To me (and I am not a psychologist) this is emotional and child like. Your wife is capable of making a sandwich. Wanting to be fed is for emotional comfort- like a small child would seek out.

Now I’m a blockee for a month now , must be the umpteenth time , and the last interaction was a big argument and her running away, then blocked. And yes I was annoyed with her so I contributed to the argument so I’m at fault too. How do you guys deal with the loss and the pain of someone who love but you know you can’t be with? She loved me just before our argument , then I’m the devil within minutes. Wanting to reach out but can’t as they block you and knowing you shouldn’t anyway. Silly me.  It’s quite the conundrum.

I feel I need to be clear about the context of my psychologists statement as there is a tad of misunderstanding I’m thinking. What she was saying is that you have to love them 100% the way they want. To love them perfectly , in their view. Which is of course impossible. One will never love anyone perfectly. One never could. Especially with the continually changing goalposts the pwBPD places before you. The psychologist was also alluding to the impossibility of a relationship with a pwBPD. It’s simply too hard, impossible, and that imperfection of love  the pwBPD will always find fault with and unless you do love them in a way they think is perfect , which no one can , then you are toast.

it depends how you interpret that psychologists statement. The way I read it is an unattainable standard the disordered person expects can never be met. I believe the disordered person does expect you to love them perfectly in their eyes. In fact that is a word that cropped up when my wife and I split up, and has done sporadically since the breakup, calling my current girlfriend ‘Miss Perfect’ or before I started seeing her “hope you find your perfect girlfriend” which is of course all projection.

 I never had any demands or expectations from my wife, other than asking her to pick the towels up off the bathroom floor after she had showered, or clean the toilet with the toilet brush after she had been and left it in an unsavoury state, but even then in our 27 year relationship I probably brought those two gripes up only a couple of times even though the things I’d mentioned would happen on a daily basis.

The black hole analogy is extremely apt too. I experienced the same as you have described. I wasn’t really one for buying flowers, but when she told me she would feel more loved if I did, and that her favourite flowers were daffs or tulips from the supermarket, I’d always pick her some up when I went there, but this then turned into “well you don’t get them from a florists so it doesn’t mean the same”
I would be accused of infidelity and she would argue in front of the kids too. She would even expect me to reprimand our kids for their behaviour at times and when I did would then completely undermine me in front of them. She too accused me of that old chestnut of ‘not loving her enough’ or the way she felt she wanted to be loved. But I think that psychologists statement eludes to the same thing.

CC43 -

That sounds pretty bad. BPDw is not quite at that level - but at times not that far off.

When I say she is not capable of taking care of herself - I mean that most people have some kind of initiative for existence and can get their basic needs met.  W does not have this.  W will claim to not eat all day, then come to me freaking out at 8pm because she is hungry.  I just have never met anyone else who won't find a way to get food when hungry.  But W will say "I couldn't decide what to eat" or "I have no food in my house".  Yes, if I wasn't there, she may eventually order doordash.  But that's quite alarming to hear when I am depending on her to take care of the kids.   She will sometimes be motivated to feed the kids - but most of the time it is very basic.  Again, I have never met anyone else like this.  When she was living apart, the kids often fed themselves.  They are 9.  And I would go to her place and she would tell me she hadn't done anything all day because she was depressed.  But it was more than just depression - it was paranoia, psychosis, and obsessive behaviors that got in her way. 

I enjoy feeding my kids.  I enjoy deciding what to eat.  I enjoy preparing food.  I suspect most people do.  She doesn't.  Since I have known her, I have never, ever been to a restaurant with her when she did not order until she heard what everyone else ordered first.  Every single day she has to ask me what I want to do about dinner.  Never once, in 14 years, have I heard her say "I want to eat this for dinner" or "I want to eat at this restaurant" and find a way to make it happen.  She always wants someone to make that decision for her, and if there is nobody else to do it, she likely won't eat, or eat junk food or a snack.

All of her interests involve someone else.  She does not do anything on her own just for fun.  Again, this feels like an impossible way to live.  Everyone else I know has something they enjoy doing alone.  Going for a walk.  Going to the gym.  A hobby.  Going shopping.  If I and the kids are doing other things, she will say "I don't know what to do with myself"and try and coerce some kind of interaction through guilt tripping or controlling behaviors (she will find a way to complain about someone else).

When she decided she wanted to be involved romantically with a woman, immediately the focus was first on finding a woman.  Not about moving out, finding a job, being independent, or separating our bedroom.  Instead it was a desire for an "open relationship" until she found a female partner, and then it was all about moving out to be with this partner and suddenly she no longer wanted an "open relationship". 

W collects permanent federal disability and was given medicare since she was in her late 20s.  That is not easy to get.  That means at that time someone determined she was unlikely to ever have the ability to meet her basic needs through working and managing her health.  At this point, I agree. 

So how did I miss this before we got married?  Well, she hid it, and I didn't have enough life experience to understand that people like her existed.  She came across as someone who was open about having a troubled youth, got help for her mental illness, then got a graduate degree and had a career.  She had traveled overseas, seemingly by herself, and made it sound like she was a very independent woman who had a few bad breaks.  What I didn't understand is that her career was job after job that she complained about, that her overseas travels were almost always in pursuit of some kind of romantic fling, and her "depression and anxiety" had a psychosis component to it.