I'm so sorry.  My ex wife also had BPD and that's likely why my oldest daughter developed it.  It is so very difficult but I never once thought about leaving because of our kids.  I don't know if that was the right move or not, to be honest.  I stood by her though until she left me for another man after 23 years of marriage.

I can't tell you what to do here because every relationship is different.  I fought so hard to restore my marriage for about a year, even though I knew she was unfaithful, she refused to return home, and she treated me like garbage.  Over time though, once I got over the codependence bond, I realized that so much of what I considered "regular life" was abusive and toxic. 

In your other post I just wrote that I had a heart attack in my early 50's due to the stress...I meant to type early 40's.

Once I decided that I was moving on and no longer looking backwards, I literally felt 20 years younger.  The stress and chaos was almost completely gone, although I did still have bad dreams from time to time.  I'm guessing that could be PTSD as well, but I never sought a diagnosis.  Today it doesn't exist though and I am very mentally healthy.

As a Christian, I'd say to try to save your marriage by learning to communicate in a different way.  The tips and tools sections at the top of this page are an excellent place to start.  That's the reason I never considered divorce though, because of my faith.  That's probably the only reason and I don't regret letting the kids grow up at home with mom and dad.  But man, I overlooked so much that was horrible in my life to make the marriage work.  I am very thankful that I'm in a different chapter of life now.

Hi ammabear,

Most of what you have written I could have written about my udd at the same age. I know how it feels when we try and try and nothing seems to stick., while to outsiders we are often criticised about our parenting.

For years my udd expressed how much she hated living at home. There were too many rules, it was like a prison, she wanted to leave and she wanted her freedom....all her words. She would stay out all night, rebelled against everything, had no interest in school even though she was top of her academic class and in the gifted programme, bullied other students and chased boys endlessly.
 
Just before her 18 birthday she chose to leave home and cleaned out her bedroom telling us that she would NEVER be back. Again this r/s didnt work out because she decided that she hated being alone all day (while b/f went to university) she hated doing any kind of housework and hated the Eresponsibilities of maintaining a home. B/f complained how messy udd was that she wouldnt even washup the dishes!. That one made me laugh because I knew it was true because udd  would usually make a scene and then storm out of my home when it came to her turn to washup,


Well she returned home several times since leaving but only for short periods but they were long enough to remind me of how much of a strain it had been when she lived here.

Today she is 32yo and has 3 children. We are currently estranged so I dont know too  much about her daily life now other than that she has lived at the same address for over 10years and has successfully maintained a home, paid her bills, has a car and has been in  relationship that has lasted 5+ years so I see this as a success.

So what Iam trying to say is that you need to let your child find his way in life. If he wont comply with basic rules, cant be civil or help around your home and he feels that you are holding him back then it is time to let him see for himself how hard life is outside of your home. You also need to find some peace in your life and be able to enjoy the little things again. One of the things I really appreciate and enjoy in life after having so much choas in my life now is silence. I now know that I tried my best and nothing would have changed udd being the child/ adult that she is.

That's just the thing- CC or I didn't do anything but stand by our boundaries.  We couldn't fix the kids, we couldn't change anything.  Only the kids could do that by their own actions.  And until they're in a place where therapy and getting better is easier than everyday life, they won't take that step.

Every time your son screams at you, he becomes a little more entitled, a little more arrogant.  Why?  If he screamed at a friend like that, they'd probably hit him and never speak to him again.  He knows that.  Yet with you, you're taking the abuse and feeling shameful...that tells his sick mind that he's justified in the abuse, that you actually deserve it. 

He's the victim in his mind, not you.  He deserves so much more and you never do enough for him.

I've said this so many times, that's the mental illness talking.  You can't have reasonable conversations with him when he's in that mindset.  You have to walk away or make him leave because his emotions have taken over in that moment.  Then you can follow up and try to have a conversation when he's more level-headed.

I'll repeat one other thing- my daughter said she hated me consistently, called me the worst things you can call someone.  Yet every time she was in trouble, she called me.  Why?  Because her words meant nothing when she was disordered, she was just venting and having a temper tantrum.  And she never apologized because she was too ashamed.  Again, that's the mental illness aspect of this. 

It's all emotional explosions like a volcano...they erupt and then they balance out for a bit.

I'll say one more thing; currently you and your husband suffer from mental illness.  Not like your son, mind you, because his is permanent.  Yours is due to extreme stress and anxiety, it leads to depression and many other illnesses both physical and mental.  It also takes a severe toll on your body.  For example, my hair was mostly grey in my 30's.  I had a heart attack in my early 50's.  All from stress and worry over my kid.

You can continue to struggle, you can continue to fight a battle that you can't win, or you can set clear boundaries.  I'm telling you, it was the best decision of my life and once I was out of that situation for a few weeks, everything about me began to change.  I slept better, I regained my focus, and I found inner peace for the first time in a decade.  I was horribly depressed and had no idea because that was life, that was my normal.

What I'm saying here is that you are no longer responsible and you need to heal.  Nothing about this is a "you-thing".  It's a mental illness thing and only your son can decide to take active steps to get better.  Even forcing him into therapy doesn't make a lot of sense because he has to want to change.  Until then, the best physicians in the world can't help him.  He has to want to help himself and you have to help yourself as well.

I have been married for over 30 years. We didn't have words like BPD when we got together.  My husband knew he had issues and sought treatment throughout the years with limited success.  I used to say even to him it was like living with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Then I read here that it's what people describe it!

I have read that some posts that women have attended domestic support groups and their partners with BPD tell them it's not abuse.  I have been down the round and finally hit the wall and called a crisis center one day after leaving the house after one of outbursts.  I sat in a park talking to a man from the domestic abuse hotline explaining "my role" and what my husband says I'm doing.  the man said to calmly you know your not safe.  What makes it even more difficult is that I developed a chronic condition that affects my heart so it's turning into a life and death situation. My husband at the time uses physical and as well as verbal intimidation as well as verbal abuse.  I reached out to a therapist and we worked together.  What I thought was depression turned out to be PTSD.  I didn't realize that years of living this way and also having a father with similar issues could lead to that.  There is not an antidepressant for that. 

I told my husband two years ago I was going to leave him that what was going on is abuse and I'm done. He said he'd get help.asked me to give him a chance. He joined a domestic violence offenders group.  Although he did not beat me it was clear to the psychologists leading the group that physical and verbal intimidation abuse.  period.

What the domestic abuse counselors told me, because I wanted hope, was that change takes a very long time but it possible.  My husband at this point thought it was just anger management and he had some depression.

Fast forward two years, my son is diagnosed with BPd he is an adult and doing well in his life but struggles with interpersonal relationships.  My husband finally came to terms with his own BPD. Actually he just likes to call it a personality disorder. He is less physically intimidating which is progress.

He still has outbursts but I guess for him you say he is trying.  After a period of self righteous statements why his behavior was just or what he said was justified, it follows with gas lighting, "I never said that" to apologies, shame and I'm trying.

I have tried "grey rocking" and encouraging words during the good times.  But I just do think I can do this anymore.  I just don't the person who treats me poorly.  I can accept a mental health condition and told him so.  What I can take anymore is how he talks to me when he is going through his episodes.  Yes I'm going through therapy.  But I find while I can not take personally what he says to me (name calling or labeling me) I just don't think I can love him knowing that he could harm me given my chronic illness and it is taking so much out of me to self protect.  t

I think we're in a good place and then all of a sudden he I allegedly say or do things that trigger him.  It's like walking on a field with land mines never knowing if I am going to set one off.

I don't this I'm in the place to manage this any more. I love the kind person he is but it's like only loving half a person and that's not fair to him either.  I can love my child unconditionally with BPD setting healthy boundaries but I can't do the same with my husband. I can certainly set boundaries with him of course and I do but in the end I am finding I cannot be myself and I am just following a BPd script.  He says he loves me so much but year but mental health or not it is difficult to unhear his tone, his name calling and demeaning words. After he apologizes which is doing better to repair quickly he just expects me to bounce back and be my happy self.  It's a vicious cycle.

I guess I just need some support at this point.  I understand how I got here. I've done my own work but the work I'm doing requires me to not blame myself, it's all the same work a person who goes through domestic violence recovery goes through. I feel like the only thing I can do to save myself is leave the marriage.

Thank you so much for your replies, I cried. I know you are all correct.
I had to learn early on that I needed tough skin after having an alcoholic father. This however, has truly gutted me to the point of no return at times where I feel hopeless.
I have to dust myself off and keep telling myself that I am a good mother, in fact I am a great mother, a pretty good human being and I feel blessed to have what we do.
I just cannot accept that this is happening and then reality sets in, that it is.
My older son has asd/epilepsy and he is out doing his own thing, my younger sons are also in shock at their brother’s behavior.

There is so much I regret not doing, and I also have tried my hardest to help him. I regret not getting him in an in-patient when we could, but I doubt he would have stayed.

I think you are correct FOG is definitely an issue I struggle with, I can’t seem to cross over to a healthier pattern of thinking at times when I need to. My therapist told me that I am in constant FOG and my husband is DARVOing me constantly as well. I am done.

This morning, my BPDson refused to go in to start an intake and my husband told him to start making plans immediately, because he is not going with the family to his sister’s once we move next week. He knows the rules and the boundaries, period. Then he walked away.

I have two girls- 27 and 25.  The older one is the BPD.  I love them both and I'd do anything for either of them.  Yet the relationships are completely different because that's what is best for me.

The 25 year old and I talk several times a week, often for hours at a time.  We get along great, we are very close, and I know everything that's going on in her life.  It's a very healthy relationship.

My 27 year old, I can't be within her circle of closest people.  There's always drama and even though she's much better now due to taking therapy seriously, she still has serious mood swings.  It's maybe 20% as bad as before...but it's still a lot at times. 

We're on speaking terms and get along well when we talk; I'm just not active in her life anymore.  If she needs something, she knows that she can call and she knows that I understand her mental illness well.  So it's a good relationship and it's the best possible outcome I could hope for in these circumstances.

My younger daughter and I have already talked about the future...what happens when I pass away?  Who will I leave what to in the will?  We've already decided, it will all go into a trust that my younger daughter will control.  I can't give my BPD daughter a large sum of money without her being completely reckless with it- that would be a disaster.  And I'm not rich or anything, but even $10k would be havoc in her life.

Is this perfect?  Not at all.  It is the best I can hope for though and I am thankful for it.  Because I'm outside my BPD kid's circle, the drama never comes to me anymore and it doesn't affect our relationship.

My unknown friend this is a horrible shared experience, and you are doing the right thing.  Keep researching keep reading.  For this is exactly what everyone who loved and loves a person with BPD goes through, absolute heartbreak and emotional roller coasters.  They love you, they hate you, they believe imagined thoughts and feel they are real, for feelings are facts and facts are a false narrative.   You CANT convince them otherwise,  you can't "prove" your love, as the proof gets more and more demanding.   My ex wanted me to destroy myself to prove I loved her.  They have an empty cup with holes at bottom, and no matter how much love you pour in, it's never enough.   For one small no or even nothing at all, and they will imagine the worse then believe it.  It's tragic, it horribly sad, for the trauma they been through you know all they want is love, but love can't help this, only years of therapy.  They have deep fear of abandoment, and deep fear of actual stable real love and commitment, for their past especially childhood taught them that is severely dangerous, you can't help them outta this.  They will destroy your spirit and heart the longer you try, for you will empty your entire self and they will discard you anyways when you have nothing left.  They truly can't handle guilt, it wrecks them in their deepest core, so they will rewrite history in their head, forget all the good you've done, and blame or be angry or straight up make you a narcissist in their head.  Over time, they will cause you so much trauma that your reality gets skewed, you wont even know your own self.  What makes it so hard is you saw the beautiful loving side of them, so you think there's a chance of normal relationship.  But they have more sides than that and there's no changing it.  It truly is 1 day is the beutiful person you love the next a monster.  All you can do is love and care from afar and truly take care of yourself, you can't love or care for them out of the illness.  The only chance is years of therapy. And even that will drain you but if you truly love them, it's worth it but they must stay in therapy otherwise your killing yourself for someone who will eventually split and discard.

I just want to mention that the situation with my pwBPD (my adult stepdaughter) was similar.  While her BPD behaviors emerged in her teens, they got progressively worse, expecially after she left for college.  I think that was because in the "real world," for example in her college dorm, her nasty, entitled, angry, explosive behavior would not be tolerated the same way it was in her family.  Like Pook said, the situation seemed to get worse and probably reached its nadir at around age 23.  Ultimately she was admitted into an in-patient program, just like she had done a handful of times in the past, mirroring Pook's experience.

But what was different this time?  I think that she "hit bottom."  And importantly, SHE was the one to admit herself to the program, not her parents.  You see, on previous occasions, her parents were the ones to take her to the hospital after experiencing a major meltdown, at least once requiring police intervention.  But of course, she flipped the script, blaming her parents hor "forcing" her to go to the hospital and accusing them of "assault," for example.  She maintained that her parents were the sick ones (note the projection).  And though she would be complete the involuntary holds, she didn't consistently do the recommended follow-up therapy.  Note that during one prior hospital stay, I think she pretended to "go along with" a treatment program only to win a concession out of her dad (for him to pay for her own apartment at release).  However, when she finally took herself to the hospital, I think she was "ready" to work on herself to get better.

By that time, she had gotten an ultimatum from her doctors, too:  either she participate in the recommended therapy program, or she would have exhausted all other options, save for long-term involuntary commitment if she were ever to land in the hospital again.  In essence, she could choose either to accept treatment or lose her freedom.  Her dad gave her a simiar ultimatum:  she needed to follow doctors' orders, or she could go her own way (and lose all financial support from him).  Fortunately, since she had hit bottom, I think her choice was an easy one.  I'm glad to say that she managed to turn her life around in a relatively short time.  Though she has experienced some setbacks and struggles, her life looks much, much better now.  I only wish she had hit bottom sooner, and that her parents hadn't enabled the unhealthy status quo for so long. 

I'll add that my BPD stepdaughter seemed to warm up to the notion of getting professional help.  That validated her victim narrative--that she felt so traumatized by life that she needed professional support to cope.  Once I said something like, "It's really mature of you to take advantage of the professional support available.  Doctors know what to do, they help people help cope with trauma all the time, that's their job."  I think my husband liked that approach, too, because he could let go of the responsibility of trying to "fix" his daughter, as nothing he had done in the past had seemed to do any good.  Once I told him, "Your focus right now is to make sure your daughter follows doctors' orders."  Therapy became her number one priority for a time.  Everything else--college, travel, living independently--could wait.

I happen to side with Pook on the need for boundaries, so that you don't enable an unhealthy status quo and ruin you life right along with your son's.  I know, it would be incredibly hard to kick your son out.  I'd advise not to threaten to kick him out if you're not prepared to follow through.  My husband asked my BPD stepdaughter to leave our home last fall, because she wasn't abiding by the house rules.  To live in our home for free, she was expected to be nice/respectful, pick up after herself (the bare minimum, not even clean her own bathroom!), and get on a path towards full-time employment, through some combination of looking for work/interviewing, part-time work, training, internships and/or volunteering.  (She had quit marijuana at the time but another house rule would be no drug use on the premises.)  Of course, she's furious about being kicked out, but at the same time, she barely worked/looked for work when she was with us, and instead she was gradually resuming her old habit of sleeping the days away.  Once she was kicked out, she had no other choice to get a job and find a place to live.  At first, she landed on a spare couch, then she house-sat, and finally she rented an apartment with roommates.  Though I'm pretty sure she hates us right now, I think that kicking her out was one of the better things to happen to her, because she was forced to live in the "real world" as well as truly start her adult life.  I'm proud of her for that.

Yes your words make sense. I'm just coming to terms that I may not have an authentic relationship with my kid.  I know he cycles between I'm the best then I'm the worst.  But because I have a chronic illness I really can't count on him as part of a my support system.

What that looks like for me is that I need people around me to not cause undo stress. When my son is in a good place he understands what we discussed as "manufactured" stress. Stress cause by family bad behavior.  He knows that his behavior has caused me physical harm, meaning my body involuntary relapsed due to stress. I ended up in the hospital with heart issues not due to anxiety but an underlying medical condition. My doctor's say I have to reduce to stress which led to us finally cutting off for a time due to extreme behavior. It did lead to him getting the BPD Diagnosis or accepting it (he got before).  But as you discuss here, it's cyclical.

So I wonder if we will ever have a truly close relationship or is it just a mother caring about her son.  For example he is not going to be part of my medical care (living will) because I cannot trust him to make decisions on my behalf if am unable to.  I have not told him this because it would start all sorts of stress but it has to be in place.

So it seems like everyone is telling me to really cannot the person with BPd know how much they have hurt you. Sometimes it's like I just have to listen to how sorry he is but I can't say a word. I said kindly and do mean it, that I understand he feels bad but I cannot listen to sorry anymore and I appreciate the continued work he's doing.  It's the best I got

First, welcome to the forum and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you've been through this and you've come to the right place.  I ended up here in very similar circumstances and thousands of others have as well.  It's always the same pattern.

What you're seeing in these breakups is typical BPD behavior.  At the start of relationships, everything is incredible because they mirror your energy, things you like, hobbies, foods, etc.  It's the perfect relationship because they think everything you do is perfect for them. 

Hopefully you can see the lie in that- I'm sure you're a great guy and all, but none of us are perfect.  We all have faults and weaknesses.  And once the BPD realizes that, they don't think, "Huh, I was over-thinking how perfect they are..."  Instead, they think, "They lied to me and deceived me!  They're nothing like I thought they were."  That's the mental illness aspect of this.

Then there's the self-doubt and the self-sabotage.  They feel "less than" so they assume you'll probably leave them.  So they fixate on that until they suddenly decide, "I'd better leave them before they break my heart."  It feels out of nowhere because it actually is...and it can happen over the smallest of things or nothing at all.  Again, this is the mental illness whispering in the back of their mind.

Eventually, they get to the point of no return and think the opposite of "he's perfect!".  Their minds tell them that you're out to hurt them, you've never loved them, and you have the worst of intentions.  Again, this is not true....nobody is perfect, nobody is a complete monster either.  It's mental illness throwing things in a spiral throughout the relationship, through the good and the bad moments.

Each time you broke up, this pattern started all over again.  You're perfect.  You tricked them.  You're going to dump them.  You're the worst person on Earth.  And each repeat of this cycle, it tends to happen faster and faster because of the mental illness. 

My ex broke up with me the final time after an incredible night together- it was virtually perfect and we had an amazing time.  Yet the next morning, she said that she was leaving and wouldn't ever return.  It doesn't make a bit of sense through a rational mind, but through BPD it makes perfect sense due to her disordered thinking and self-sabotage.

You want to reconcile.  Great!  The conversation here should be about breaking this pattern.  To do that, it requires a different form of communication and it takes some time to really get it down pat.  We can talk about that at another time since I don't want to make this first post too long.