Hi there,

I was planning to reply, but Notwendy wrote what I was thinking.

Just because your wife says things, it doesn't mean she'll actually follow through.  She might make threats and act passive-aggressively in the moment, to blow off steam and unleash some of her pent-up stress and frustration.  I'd say, if you want to avoid conflict, what you could do is gray rock.  That's shorthand for not reacting to your wife's threats, but instead staying as calm and boring as a gray rock.  She leaves the family online chat?  Fine.  She needs a time out anyway!  She might believe she's "punishing" you with her absence, and fantisizing about "hurting" you "in public" with a farewell post, but my guess is that she can't stand to see cheerful family exchanges amongst your relatives, as it makes her feel alienated (from familial bliss) and insanely jealous.  In fact, my guess is if you have an adverse reaction to her threats, you'll "reward" her threats with extra attention, and she'll commence a nuclear arms race with progressively more dire threats.  You see, if she's really MAD, she will threaten mutually assured destruction.  So my first instinct would be to try to avoid getting "sucked into" a nuclear war, at least at first.  How?  By remaining calm, and not displaying your arsenal of weapons.

Anyway, if you are planning separation or divorce, you need to get your own counsel, but I'd keep your plans absolutely confidential until you're ready.  I guess I wouldn't recommend mediation, because pwBPD are not known for being reasonable and negotiating in good faith.

I also agree with Notwendy regarding the kids, which are probably tweens or teens if you've been married for two decades.  If you want to eat with them, then you could make them a snack, arrange a pizza-and-movie night, take them out for frozen yogurt after their basketball game or arrange a mini-picnic in the park with sub sandwiches, whatever--just don't purposely "sabotage" what Mom does.  Mom could participate or not, her choice.  My guess is she won't, and you could frame it as giving her a needed break.  My sense is that your kids would relish some one-on-one time with Dad anyway.  Something as simple as a mug of hot cocoa with extra marshmallows could be nice.

It was meant to be hurtful, perhaps to establish herself as being the favorite or the one in the in crowd of your family.

It's middle school social dynamics. You wouldn't consider this, so it's hard to process.

My BPD mother was exclusonary with her connections. What suprised me was that other adults in the family went along with it. It caused estrangement between family member, between hers and me.

While I her family and I have reconciled, there's still the gap and the distance, and their family dynamics. We aren't included in their family events and I don't include them in mine. At some level, I still feel sad and excluded. Maybe they feel that way too when it comes to my family but it's also possible they may not feel it.

Family dynamics are what they are. While my BPD mother's behaviors were driven by her BPD, what shocked me was that her family, non disordered people, went along with it. That may be a factor in your feelings about the trip. Your sister might be the one to exclude you but your other family members were there too. How could this be OK with them? Why didn't they stand up for you? I had the same questions. What we don't know is what the pwBPD may have said to them, or if they went along to keep the peace according to the family pattern.

The trip you have the picture of was probably not all lovely and peaceful, but it still hurts at some level. I may not have wanted to attend my mother's family's events but being excluded still feels sad.

I am sorry for the loss of your nephew.

I think your feelings of guilt and responsibility are "normal" considering the family dynamic and the role you were cast into (as the fixer, the stable one). What isn't "normal" is the family dynamic and your being cast into that role in the first place.

You did not choose the worst possible time to go LC. You chose this at a point where you knew it was necessary to do this to protect your own emotional well being. It was the right time for you.

That your family is struggling isn't your fault. You didn't cause it, and the repair is beyond anything you are able to do. It isn't all your parents' fault either but the family dynamics are an extension of theirs. They are the parents in this situation. You kids are all adults not but as children, you did not set the dynamics. As adults, you make your own choices now.

You aren't being uncaring. You are considering yourself in this care as well. These are boundaries.

When can you fall apart? You can, but your family isn't capable of being a support to you. My situation was similar- if my own mother was struggling with BPD- there wasn't the ability for her to manage being supportive. However, a counselor, spouse, friends- they can be of support and it's OK to reach out for support.

This is from my own experience growing up in a similar situation, so take it from that perspective. What should you do? IMHO, absolutely nothing.

My BPD mother frequently threatened divorce but did not take action. If your wife says she wants a separation, and you do something to facilitate this- that is enbling her, reacting to her, and in actuality she may just be saying this to get you to react and not really want to do it. I can't know what she's actually thinking but my guess is that she is doing what she is doing- the separate bedrooms, meals without you and saying this in reaction to you taking control of the finances. (extinction burst).

If she were to do more than just say this- if she were to retain an attorney- then, you need to consult with one of your own. In the many times my BPD mother said something like this, she didn't take further action as far as I know of.

This advice is in response to what your wife said. Now, if you want a separation/divorce- you need to take action based on your decision, rather than as a reaction to what your wife says, unless she acts on it.

As to meals. I don't know if your wife cooks or not, but it's your family too. If she's cooking, then you can't really expect to sit down with the family to eat if she doesn't want you too, as she's in charge of the meals. However, you can eat with your children. In my own childhood, Dad took us kids out to eat a lot. BPD mother stayed home. I don't know how or why that happened. What is going on at our house then is similar in ways to what is going on in yours. If your wife doesn't want to eat with you, let her- and you go out with the kids (it was not fancy dining- we went to local diners, family style places). You are still your kids' father and are allowed to have your time with them. You don't have to let her exclude you from that.

I think it's good that you took control of the finances. My BPD mother's spending created financial stresses and issues as well. One issue is- how to handle the consequences and the escalations as well as if you want to be dealing with this over the long run. That is up to you. However, if she's just saying this and not taking action, best to not give it more attention or power by reacting to that.

Thank you. It's quite hard to hold onto the fact that I've done all I can when the guilt tripping continues. We have another 3 weeks until he moves out. Today he said 'I don't mean this to sound like it's going to sound but... I just need to move out now. This is making me ill, I'm not eating or sleeping'. I validated that and said that perhaps it would help him to think about looking after himself by eating little and often and resting instead of constantly distracting with activities. That then gets turned back onto me of course 'you're doing exactly what you say I do'. I just gave up! There is literally know way in with him. Sigh.

I can totally relate. It’s not quite the same for me as this is my 2nd marriage and we’ve only been together 4.5 years but I was utterly convinced that this time I’d found my person to share life with. He was loving, supportive, fun and (i thought) open and honest. Pretty much straight after our honeymoon things changed and 2 years later we are separating.

It’s heartbreaking, any break up is but especially after 20 years and with BPD in the mix. The emotional pain is real and it’s so important to get support around you. There’s a ted talk by a guy called Guy Winch called How to Fix a Broken Heart that’s worth a watch.

There’s also an independent podcast Relational Lives which has an episode on break ups.

You will get through this!

Interesting that she's thinking of separation, not quite divorce.  A major difference between the two is that with a legal separation you're still married and possibly you would still be liable for her debts surprise overspending splurges.  Perhaps a consultation or interview with a local experienced lawyer or solicitor could forewarn about that concern and other traps she may spring on you.

Another lawyer question is what constitutes abuse in  your local area.  Is breaking items in the home considered DV?  It could be considered a type of threat or control intimidation.  A lot of conflict in a home may not be considered "actionable" but ask so you know where the line is drawn.

A separation would include a custody and parenting schedule, same as for a divorce.  One possible risk is that if you later divorced, then you'd likely have to go through all the hassle of a second court process to make a new custody/parenting order and perhaps get a worse order.

Be aware that she may claim to be a Stay at Home Mother (SAHM).  She's probably thinking that you will go away and keep paying all her bills because she is the mother.  It would probably be wise when in any legal discussions with lawyers or court officials that you always state she needs to find her own employment or career.  The last thing you should hint is that she's somehow disabled because of her mental health issues.  (And never ever let it be claimed you or the marriage made her this way, unless you want to give lifetime support to a "handicapped" person.)

How and what to say when speaking with a soon-to-be-ex (stbEx)...
This is different than trying to repair the marriage where you both would share information to rebuild the trust.  Rather, if the marriage is failing or has failed, then you limit what you share.  Ask your lawyer whenever in doubt, or ask here, but one obvious topic okay to share is about parenting matters.  Almost everything else... think twice or thrice before sharing in order to lessen the risk of being sabotaged.

One excellent handbook is Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy.

Hi again,

I agree with Pook, that your attorney should have some ideas about dealing with your ex's weaponization of the court system against you.

My ex BIL did something similar--"filing" frivolous claims/disputes, not complying with court orders or documentation, not appearing in court when scheduled, etc.--and he was found in contempt.  Yes, the proper process needed to be followed, but the judge and court clerks saw through his ploys.  I tend to think that this sort of behavior isn't that rare, and an experienced judge should know BS when he or she sees it.  At the trial, even the GAL declared something like, "I've seen cases like this many times, and I'm telling you, it doesn't get better, it gets worse."  By "like this," he meant my ex BIL refusing to take his parenting responsibilities seriously, refusing to put his kids' interests ahead of his own, refusing to follow the agreed-upon parenting plan, refusing to abide by the GAL's recommendations (including taking parenting classes); and by "it," he meant his descent into deeper dysfunction.

Bickering is common in divorce and custody proceedings, but ignoring court orders is not.  Why isn't this front and center for the judge to take action on?  If she's been caught lying under oath and/or filing false claims, there should be consequences and it sounds like there have been on paper.  Why has the court not followed through on any of it?

These are all questions your attorney should have clear answers for.

Getting a psych evaluation is secondary to standing court orders.  That's like driving a car with the oil light on, then saying you have to drive across town to check the tire pressure to see if that's the problem.  The tires could need air, sure, but that's clearly not the problem we're talking about and it doesn't solve anything.

If your attorney doesn't have a practical answer to make all of this stop, I would be seeking another attorney.

My BPD wife says it's over, that she is getting legal council to get a separation agreement.

I honestly don't know what she will do. We have been sleeping apart since last Thursday. Eating apart (I get yelled at if I try to eat at the same time as my family). She could just be running an extinction burst. She just made a "farewell" post in my extended families fb group, and left the group.

TLDR; it's been 20 years. I'm tired.

What should I do?