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 81 
 on: November 25, 2025, 02:30:30 PM  
Started by Eagle7 - Last post by Me88
It's really about learning to communicate in a counter-intuitive way.  In your scenario, I'd say:

"I'm open to learning from you- show me your way to peel potatoes."

If that didn't work, I'd follow up with, "I love you and I don't want to ague over potatoes.  I'm going to step away for a few minutes and we can figure this out later."

If things stayed tense after I came back, I'd switch to, "I'm sorry if how I peel these makes you upset, that was never my intention.  Tell me how to proceed- should I keep peeling potatoes or would you rather do them?"

If that didn't resolve the conflict, I'd say, "You know what, I'm not in the mood for potatoes anyway.  I'll grab something else to eat so we both have time to calm down."  Then I'd get in my car and head for a local restaurant for one of my favorite foods.

What I wouldn't do is argue, defend, or blame- I'd stay until I start to anger, then I'd walk away.  And I would do this for everything, every single time, with very clear boundaries in place.  If you want to talk, I'm here.  If you need help, I'm here for you.  If you want to verbally attack me, I'm walking away and I'll be back when you've calmed down.

These things never worked for me. I too would apologize for random things like that, but my apology was never good enough. Showing that I was dismissing her feelings or didn't care enough to actually reflect on what I've done wrong. And the other problem was, there were times we could have a conversation where I'd apologize for hurting her feelings and I would do as she pleased, and in that immediate moment it was fine. Then the next time a similar situation came up, I'd default to what she said her preference was...and that time, NO GOOD. Moving goal posts.

If I walked away from arguments, 95% of the time it meant to her that I didn't care about our relationship or fighting for it. Or I lacked accountability. Or I was just a horrible human. It was like she needed those hours of yelling and insulting to blow off steam. Every argument literally blew up into a make or break for the relationship.

Every single thing was criticized and if I ever got offended and stood up for myself, it was a recipe for disaster. I never felt so incompetent in my life. I really started believing I was just some failure over the most miniscule things.

 82 
 on: November 25, 2025, 12:42:08 PM  
Started by Heretoheal - Last post by CC43
Hi,

If I were in your situation, I wouldn't mention that you're holding her gifts for her.  She might view that as a sort of bribe:  "Mom thinks she can erase all her abusive treatment of me with a measly gift."  Or maybe she wants to punish you:  "I'm not going to give Mom the satisfaction of feeling good giving me a gift because she's toxic."  Or you'll get the wrong thing:  "Mom has horrible taste, I'd never wear that sweater in a million years, she has no idea who I am and what I like, she never did."  Or maybe:  "Now I have to buy HER a gift, and I have no money or energy."  Sometimes I think what she really wants is money, to enable her to pull completely away from you.  The tough part though is that she craves a close relationship, but she's too insecure, ashamed and traumatized to handle one.  She knows that relationships are about give and take, but she can only take right now, and not give anything at all.  Rather than come up short, she avoids the situation altogether.  And it may be that when she sees you, she feels she's "demoted" to young teenager status, which she hates, as she's desperately trying to find her adult persona.

 83 
 on: November 25, 2025, 12:19:30 PM  
Started by Eagle7 - Last post by Pook075
absolutely. I fully understand this now. Years ago I was so confused: she obviously knew something wasn't right which is why medications and therapy were sought. The intent to want to change just wasn't there. And from what I was told about her therapy sessions, all she was told was I was toxic and abusive (given one sided stories with zero context of course). She did admit that her rages and screaming/insults were not ok, but justified that by saying that's how she always argued, and that it was worse in childhood with endless physical altercations. It just bugged me that someone could name the issues one by one and still not change that behavior. Add in excessive amounts of thc edibles daily, and I'm not sure she even knew what was going on most times and just went into fight mode as a default.

Most people probably don't realize this, but 90% of therapy is building enough of a relationship so the therapist/patient can be honest with each other and have tough conversations.  The therapist knows there's mental illness and they know that the blame is likely being unfairly assigned as a coping mechanism. 

So they listen, they offer ways to avoid future conflict, and it's doing the exact same thing as if they walked in and said, "I'm a raving maniac that yells at people all the time."

Who did what is never the problem.  It's how we personally respond afterwards.  BPDs go spiraling with damaging thoughts that implode their closest relationships.  So even when therapists are lied to or hear grossly one-sided arguments, they can still do their jobs and be effective by focusing on the solutions and building trust.

 84 
 on: November 25, 2025, 12:15:03 PM  
Started by Eagle7 - Last post by Pook075
They do not like the way you hvve peeled the poattoes. Your side of the discussion will go like this: I am sorry I did not peel them corectly...yes, I imagine I was being lazy just then. I am sorry....Yes, I suppose it was a bit stupid too, I will do better...I am sorry I did not mean to be disresctful toward you for peeling the potatoes improperly, but i know it upset you...I did it and it was wrong. I am sorry. It will not happen again." And that is how it goes. no hint of talking down to them or becoming defensive in any way, or you will regret it. The next time you need to peel the poatoes you remember and do it as carefully as you possibly can. You ask them if it is ok. They are not dys-regulated that night, so they barely glance at them on the plate. "whatever, it's fine."   

It's really about learning to communicate in a counter-intuitive way.  In your scenario, I'd say:

"I'm open to learning from you- show me your way to peel potatoes."

If that didn't work, I'd follow up with, "I love you and I don't want to ague over potatoes.  I'm going to step away for a few minutes and we can figure this out later."

If things stayed tense after I came back, I'd switch to, "I'm sorry if how I peel these makes you upset, that was never my intention.  Tell me how to proceed- should I keep peeling potatoes or would you rather do them?"

If that didn't resolve the conflict, I'd say, "You know what, I'm not in the mood for potatoes anyway.  I'll grab something else to eat so we both have time to calm down."  Then I'd get in my car and head for a local restaurant for one of my favorite foods.

What I wouldn't do is argue, defend, or blame- I'd stay until I start to anger, then I'd walk away.  And I would do this for everything, every single time, with very clear boundaries in place.  If you want to talk, I'm here.  If you need help, I'm here for you.  If you want to verbally attack me, I'm walking away and I'll be back when you've calmed down.

 85 
 on: November 25, 2025, 11:44:25 AM  
Started by Heretoheal - Last post by Heretoheal
Thank you!  That is good advice!  Whenever I text her, every few weeks, I just send her a funny dog meme or a picture of something I think she’d like..I never ask a question. That way it’s less hurtful when she ignores it. I read cc43’s thought on it sending gifts. Not wanting to reward this behavior and also to respect her boundaries. Do you think we should text her that her presents are here and ready next time we see her?  Any other advice from your therapist?  I’m looking in on getting started in therapy myself. I’m desperate for ways on how to navigate life lately.

 86 
 on: November 25, 2025, 11:42:13 AM  
Started by Eagle7 - Last post by cynp
Excerpt
In normal arguments you can justify things, argue your point and defend yourself, but what I've learned with them is that their emotions are reality. You have to agree with their perception 100% that you're the bad guy an they're the victim or else nothing gets better.

They do not like the way you hvve peeled the poattoes. Your side of the discussion will go like this: I am sorry I did not peel them corectly...yes, I imagine I was being lazy just then. I am sorry....Yes, I suppose it was a bit stupid too, I will do better...I am sorry I did not mean to be disresctful toward you for peeling the potatoes improperly, but i know it upset you...I did it and it was wrong. I am sorry. It will not happen again." And that is how it goes. no hint of talking down to them or becoming defensive in any way, or you will regret it. The next time you need to peel the poatoes you remember and do it as carefully as you possibly can. You ask them if it is ok. They are not dys-regulated that night, so they barely glance at them on the plate. "whatever, it's fine."   

 87 
 on: November 25, 2025, 09:29:51 AM  
Started by Heretoheal - Last post by BPDstinks
I forgot to mention, my BPD therapist told me, whenever I initiate contact with pwBPD (i.e. I miss you....something like that, makes her anxious, as it boxes her into an EMOTION) regardless, she states it "re-sets" the "I need space" clock; I limit correspondence to "Happy Thanksgiving" text (though, I am pretty sure she blocked me) and sadly, I cannot mail her a card/gifts cards, like I had been doing, as I do not know her new address (it must be said, I think it is so sad...time is short, life can change in a MINUTE, I would give anything to (speaking of re-set) have a DO-over, though, I just don't know what I could change!

 88 
 on: November 25, 2025, 09:27:06 AM  
Started by Heretoheal - Last post by BPDstinks
Pook...what valuable advice!

 89 
 on: November 25, 2025, 09:06:31 AM  
Started by empower-me - Last post by stanohi
I don't think so. In some ways it might be worse. Self employment still requires self regulating skills, executive function, and accountability. In the workplace- accountability and structure is built into the system. A person might work on a project independently but if there aren't results, coworkers and employers would notice. The employer sets the expectations.

IMHO, the aspect of BPD that impairs relationships also impairs keeping a job. Changing the type of job, or relationship, doesn't change that the person has BPD.

There can be income inequalities between spouses and some spouses don't work outside the home and still provide tasks that are beneficial to the family- child care, taking care of the house.

For some pwBPD, the aspects of BPD that make it difficult to work outside the home also impact the ability to work in the home as well.

Necessity is a motivator. We all need to have an income source in order to have our basic needs met. We all have tasks at home to keep up with. Somehow, as arranged between spouses, these tasks need to be done.

It's difficult to know if a person can manage a job or what kind of job if they aren't experiencing this necessity- that is, if someone else is providing the financial support, they may not have the motivation to work at a job.

It could be a challenge to discern the difference between support and enabling.


You make good points about how structure and accountability matter, and how BPD can affect both work and home tasks. It’s also hard to tell the difference between supporting someone and enabling them. I agree that motivation can change a lot when there’s no financial pressure.

 90 
 on: November 25, 2025, 08:34:36 AM  
Started by Eagle7 - Last post by Me88
Treatment for mental illness is not like treatment for a broken leg.  There's not a set process to fix things (reset the bone, set a hard cast, wait 4-6 weeks, etc). 

This is an illness/injury of the mind, so the only way to actually heal is by someone mentally choosing that.  Take an alcoholic, for example, that's a psychological addiction just as much as it's a physical one.  If the alcoholic says, "I don't have a problem," then there's literally zero cure except for tying them to a bed for a few weeks.  But even then, once you release them they'll probably get drunk.

Your ex couldn't face that her conflicts came from within, so no amount of drugs or therapy can make a difference.  Like the alcoholic, she didn't see the full problem and that's the only way things can actually change.  Don't get it wrong though- the drugs didn't fail...or the therapist...or the psychiatrist or psychologist.  The process failed because the most important factor (admitting a problem and facing it) wasn't met.

absolutely. I fully understand this now. Years ago I was so confused: she obviously knew something wasn't right which is why medications and therapy were sought. The intent to want to change just wasn't there. And from what I was told about her therapy sessions, all she was told was I was toxic and abusive (given one sided stories with zero context of course). She did admit that her rages and screaming/insults were not ok, but justified that by saying that's how she always argued, and that it was worse in childhood with endless physical altercations. It just bugged me that someone could name the issues one by one and still not change that behavior. Add in excessive amounts of thc edibles daily, and I'm not sure she even knew what was going on most times and just went into fight mode as a default.

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