I agree- it's something in addition to the physical appearance that is the magnet. I think we learn early on what works to get our needs met, and pwBPD may have different needs and so develop a different skill set to meet them.

People notice attractive people- that's natural. BPD mother was a pretty child and people noticed that. There are pretty children who don't have BPD and people notice them too but perhaps the way they meet their attention need is different for them. All children want attention. It's common to see a small child say to their parent "look at this" as they do a big jump on the playground or show their drawing.

Children have innate abilities and so when they get attention for them, it may reinforce them. If a child is a good reader, or good at sports, gets praised for that, they read more and become good at these activities.

Imaging there's a high need temperment child, who may be more stress for parents and teachers and so doesn't get a lot of positive attention but is attractive and gets attention for that- and that becomes their skill focus? Or they find other attention to be something to work at but being attractive- they just get the attention. That would become their reinforced skill set. This won't create BPD but perhaps that tendency was already there.

To compare Tel Hill's mother and roomate. The roomate was also attractive but focused on other skills, like acting and her college classes, got a sense of accomplishment from these. BPD mother didn't have these other avenues of sense of self and so her attractiveness became her main way of getting needs met. She had poor executive function. She was intelligent and liked to read a lot- but to work at a task that brought a later sense of accomplishment may have been more of a challenge.

My friend's young adult daughter who has BPD also has this "attraction factor".   I have known her since she was little. I didn't notice any problematic behavior then. It emerged as a teen. She has an intense need for attention. In her teens, it became possible to gain attention from boys- so perhaps this is something she did more- so she could have that need met.

One of my BPD mother's needs was that she couldn't tolerarate being alone for long. She needed someone with her. She seemed to not be able to regulate her own emotions and having someone with her in the role of emotional caretaker met that need. This young woman is similar in that need. So perhaps their being able to draw people to them was reinforced for them.

Oh I agree too. The problem is she is very charismatic. She is very confident, and she bullsh*ts so freely and easily everyone falls for it, and it’s much easier to fall for it and sweep it under the carpet. I get it, her father doesn’t want to think she’s a drug addict, that she has mental problems and to him I suppose it seems she doesn’t because of her confidence. I know just how f’ed up in the head she is though because I’ve lived with her a lot longer than she has lived with any of her other family members. I know how she lies, manipulates and twists people.

My sons gf’s parents are a doctor and a nurse. I think they have even been swayed by her bs, even though every time she has met them she has sounded coked up.

The problem is I’ve told her family enough times what she is like, what the bf is like and I’m not sure it’s taken until now for them to show it, but 24hrs later it’s back to acting like nothing has happened. I’ve also told them what will happen, her health is suffering and I’ve told them all it isn’t going to end well.

I’d like to think it’s all the drugs but she’s been like it for far too long for it to be. She is the eldest child, her mum was not loving because her own mother wasn’t and put in a mental institute a couple of times. Her dad used to work all day every day and wasn’t there much, but when he was and she had been scolded and sent to her room he would go up and speak to her and just validate her and tell her not to upset her mother, so he has always enabled her from a young age. All the perfect recipe for a personality disorder/mental illness to develop. What is the saying, show me a boy at 7 and I’ll show you the man.

Her 'happiness' will not be the happiness we non-BPD sufferers would have; it will only be bursts of happiness during her ever-changing emotions.  She can never stay in one mental state long enough to truly enjoy it as we would. For every burst of happiness there will be more chaos and turmoil in her life as her moods swing.

As for feeling no guilt, she probably does feel some guilt at times but due to her illness is unable to express it so re-writes the facts to enable her to cope with it. My exBPD of 4 years never once said 'sorry' or even came close to acknowledging she'd acted badly.

I've often said that I'm sure BPD's are far more aware of how they're acting than they would have us know and they do feel guilt to some degree but are unable to deal with it.

Rowdy, I'm really sorry this has happened and that your FOO continues to enable this chaotic and toxic behaviour. I hope you find some mental peace.



I agree with TellHill on this. The family's behaviour is not about reality or truth. It's about doing the thing that is easiest for them in the moment. If for years they've found it easier to paper over and ignore your ex's destructive actions, this is likely to continue. These dynamics sometimes remind me of The Simpsons and how every time Krusty the Clown meets Bart, he doesn't remember who Bart is.

It might be worth considering what you can do to protect yourself and your sons that relies purely on your own or their actions, and does not depend on cooperation from your ex and her FOO.

Yes I’m afraid they will all go back to enabling as you are right the FOO seems to be just as you say it is. She has a cousin that is just as bad if not worse. Has always been bad news, stealing, drug use, heroin abuse, getting involved in drug running ending up with dealers banging on family members doors when he has stolen money from them etc. and he has always had a free pass from his family, my ex clashes with him real bad because they are so alike. They both bullsh*t their way through things and I too am in disbelief at how people just fall for it.

They came home from hospital yesterday and my son asked us all round at 6 to see him. I was there with my ex, two sons, sons girlfriend and our grandson. My ex just carried on as if nothing had happened. I didn’t mention anything because it wasn’t the time or the place.

CC43, your comments on shame are on the money. With uBPDx, the day after he cheated, he spent the entire day walking and walking without eating (and then came home and tried to deny what he had done, by retrospectively claiming we were not in a relationship). When I first told him that this wasn’t true and that his actions fit the definition of cheating, he nodded and said ‘sorry’ and seemed so ashamed he could not even lift his head.

Then, just over 2 weeks later and seemingly apropos of nothing, the lashing out began - accusations, word salad, demanding that I move out, etc.

It’s not really possible to logically reconcile uBPDx’s seemingly genuine deep regret for destroying his previous relationship through cheating, and his actions in our own relationship. But in emotional terms, it makes sense. uBPDx was able to emotionally paper over his previous misdeeds by telling a story to himself and others (me) that it was a special circumstance, his former partner’s fault for being ‘horrible’ and so on. I think when that story becoming unsustainable, the shame became unbearable and anything, to the point of treating me appallingly and telling desperate, stupid lies, became justified to him.

About two weeks after the cheating, and a few days before uBPDx started painting me black, we were talking about another situation. Someone being dishonest and seemed to live in two realities at once, both believing and disbelieving their own claims, even contradicting their own accusations at the same time as they were making them. I told uBPDx that I found this extremely destabilising. uBPDx looked at me with what seemed like great compassion and said, “Is it because of me?”

At the time, I didn’t understand. I didn’t know yet that he’d been lying to me, but he obviously did and it was preying on his mind. Which wouldn’t be the case if he was entirely incapable or not cognisant of his own actions.

There was another thing I might have mentioned before – uBPDx accused me of making him feel ‘guilty for existing’. I pointed out that a year ago, he had described another friend as making him feel ‘guilty for being alive’. He looked at me with hate and said, “Are you trying to make me feel guilty for wanting to kill myself”. Which is obviously nonsensical – pointing out that his mental health spirals were following a cycle, is not the same as trying to make him feel guilty for wanting to kill himself. These are two different things.

In this case, the reality – that he was mentally ill, that there was a problem in his own head, not just the outside world – that no-one else could save him from it – was completely intolerable to uBPDx. Blaming and projecting onto me was easier.

So to summarise, I believe uBPDx, and maybe many BPD people, know exactly what they are doing cognitively, but are unable to handle the truth emotionally because they don’t have the distress tolerance or other skills. The shame or awareness they have done wrong, or that they have responsibilities to fulfil that they don’t want to, feels like an assault to them. Lashing back feels like self-defence against the assault. Thus the projections, blame shifting, distortions of reality, etc.

But then, because they aren’t actually (for the most part) psychotic, they do know they are harming others tremendously. That their actions are bad and look bad to other people. Cue more intense shame. Which feeds into more desperate attempts to relieve shame. Which leads to more lashing out. And the cycle continues…


NotWendy, my mother was just the same! There was an incident in my childhood just like this but with fish, not soup.

This! Sometimes I'd get too engaged in my own emotions that I forgot to hear the emotion behind their words. Whatever emotion they feel, it was ok, but the words they were using it to express were not, and all they really wanted at that point was to get us engaged in an argument so they could find a way to explode without being "wrong". It's so hard to always remind myself of that though, and when I forget, things get bad because I engaged and reacted in a bad way...

Congrats on the birth of your grandson. He sounds perfect and adorable.

I'm really sorry your ex tripped out in public embarrassing herself and your family. I'm very sorry your sons had to witness her meltdown at the worst possible time. I have had a few pwBPD in my life and they have never thought twice about throwing me under the bus. I have never gotten used to their lack of conscience and self centeredness either.

I'm glad your ex SIL has seen your ex as she really is. It may be temporary. She has surely seen her sister's disordered behavior in the past. She didn't acknowledge it then. She may have acknowledged it now to not add to your distress or prevent more embarassment to her and her dad.

Once this blows over, she may return to being an enabler since that was her role in her FOO.  My late dBPD mother would spend days on end verbally attacking me and screaming when I was an minor living at home. One time she went off the deep end and started pushing me out of the blue. I think it was a psychotic episode.  My enabler  dad told her to stop and actually comforted me and protected me. I thought things would now change for the better for me.  I don't know if he was just de-escalating her behavior at the moment never intending to stand up to her permanently or if he wanted true change and was afraid to go forward with it, but he went back to enabling her and ignoring me.  I was bitterly disappointed.

What do you plan to do now that your grandson is here. Can you protect yourself from her outbursts and drug problems? What about your sons?

I often think my late dBPD mother was on the spectrum, due to her discomfort and awkwardness in social settings.  She did not do charming. 



I'm guessing body language or demeanor indicates a person can be extremely exciting, challenging or dramatic and that can be incredibly attractive on a subconscious level.

As I said above my mother was neither charming nor sociable. She was dramatic and an expert at intense temper tantrums for no discernible reason.   She was very pretty and people paid attention to her even in her late 80s. The weird thing is I look like her and when with her, she was the one who got all the attention. And I was the younger version of her!

A former college roommate of mine was gorgeous. She had the same experience.

Her mother visited once and my roommate told me her mom would get all the attention when they went out. At the time, I thought her mom was old and not that attractive. (Sorry, I was 21 then.) I could not understand it.

She told me her mom was a bit strong-willed and difficult. I don't know if she had a personality disorder or not. My roommate was low key and introverted. She was normal.

The even weirder thing is my college roommate became an actress after graduation and was cast as one of the hot and pretty girls in a popular Hollywood movie in the 80s.  She's had medium to small roles in TV and film during her career and is not famous.   She’s  not anyone you would know.

She was a Hollywood-approved hot girl and men still chose her 50-year-old mom over her.  There’s something else going on besides physical hotness,

I think those with FOO issues may miss early red flags or explain them away.   I know people with  personality disorders may hide their worst traits until after marriage, an extended lovebombing so to speak. They learned which traits caused friends and partners to dump them in the past and adjusted their behavior to get what they wanted.

My late ex-h did that. There were a few red flags which I dismissed (big mistake) when we were engaged because he was such a sweetie. He was the perfect fiance. We were engaged for three years. He did a 180 and was abusive and scary during the marriage. I felt duped.

Welcome back, though of course we wish your return was signaling a more joyful note.  But you do have a hint that you've taken reality in hand and are overall in a better place than before.


I doubt your ex is truly happy, well, not in a healthy way.  As for her feeling no guilt, that's probably due to her warped (disordered) thinking and perspective.  Members here often speak of the Karpman Drama Triangle.  Your ex probably embraces the Victim label, you as the Persecutor and her new guy as one of her Rescuers.

Can you share how your court ordered parenting schedule is split, percentwise?  We encourage our members, as the more reasonably normal parent, to seek as much parenting authority and time as possible.  Here is one of my past posts...


Likely your children would benefit from counseling, just as you benefited.  (Your ex might oppose that, but court would likely side with you.  As my lawyer told me years ago, "Courts love counseling.")  Your example - and the input of counselors too - will help the children to be balanced in their selection of mentally healthy relationships in their own lives as adults.