Hi again,

I think you're generally on point with your concern about your daughter seeming stuck, as opposed to moving forward and working on herself.  I empathise with your concern about whether or not therapy is helping your daughter, because it's expensive as well as time-consuming.  In my own situation, there were times that I felt like therapy became my BPD stepdaughter's "occupation," as well as an excuse for not really doing other things in her life.

I'll share with you my own mindset concerning my BPD stepdaughter.  While my husband was mostly focused on her mood (i.e. wanting her to be happy), I was mostly focused on her actions.  I could tolerate all sorts of negativity, sulkiness and disengagement from family, as long as my stepdaughter was generally doing what she was supposed to be doing.  Was she going to her therapy sessions?  Was she working on her classes?  Was she earning some money?  If she was unemployed, was she working hard to find a job?  If she got fired, did she look for a new job?  If she couldn't find a job, was she at least volunteering?  Did she pick up after herself in the common areas of the home?  Was she eating reasonably well?  Was she getting some exercise?  Did she shower and get dressed daily?  Did she go to bed at night?  Was she spending time with friends from time to time?  Did she resist the urge to lash out and send mean texts?  Did she find time for hobbies (not including passive consumption of social media and TV)?  In other words, in spite of her sour mood, did she follow a "normal," age-appropriate daily routine?  I guess that this approach hinges on my belief that you are what you do every day.  Since my BPD stepdaughter seemed to struggle so much with her identity, my hope was that after a few months of following a healthy routine, she'd come to realize who she was (for example, an attractive, athletic college graduate working towards a career in XYZ, starting out with volunteer work in an adjacent area, who loves caring for pets, spending time at the spin studio, and painting in her free time).  In other words, something other than her ongoing narrative:  an angry, entitled, victimized girl with a terrible childhood whose family mistreats her and who has given up on herself because she's too overwhelmed by adult life.

As an aside, my stepdaughter would struggle with handling stress, which tends to increase in early adulthood.  I emphasized to her that keeping a regular sleep and mealtime schedule helps reduce physical stress, by resting and nourishing the body.  The same goes for regular exercise.  Spending a few minutes every day to tidy one's living quarters will help make the environment pleasant, setting her up for success.  Thus keeping a schedule can help "automate" daily living, reducing stress and the mental bandwidth spent on routine tasks, freeing it up for other things.  In fact, whenever stress feels overwhelming, the more important it is to focus on healthy habits.  It's not "stupid" or "boring" to have a healthy routine; it's part of the scaffolding that supports you to achieve what you want in life.

I guess my point is, it's less about knowing the actual content or goals of your daughter's therapy, and more about taking ACTION and building momentum towards carving out an independent adult life.  I think that starts at home.  The rules of my home would be, adult children are welcome any time, provided that they are drug-free, respectful and take care of the home environment (clean up after themselves), while they are working full-time on themselves, through some combination of study, work and/or volunteering.  In addition, I think they should be responsible for paying for all their own luxuries (phone, travel, etc.)--it's their choice entirely.  In other words, they aren't allowed to give up on themselves and on life in general.  If they insist that they are adults, they can choose to do whatever they want whenever they want, well that's absolutely true, and they are free to leave, you wish them all the best.  But for as long as you're providing free room and board, they are not allowed to be on vacation, to freeload and sit on the sidelines of adult life, because that's not the "real" world.

How do you enforce these rules?  It can be difficult sometimes.  Typically my stepdaughter would start out OK, but then she'd regress--sleeping in late, taking long afternoon naps, prioritizing fun travels over looking for work, etc.  I didn't want to police or regiment her days, or have to inquire about daily status reports, but it was clear to me she wasn't working hard on getting her life on track.  I might suggest to disable wifi at night, to prevent all-night streaming.  If she's sleeping the days away and not working on herself, then you have to ask her to leave.

I have a few ideas on finances, but I get the sense you're on the right track there.  It's true that emerging adults might benefit from financial support--but there's a fine line between support and enablement of dysfunction.  I think that the principle of "skin in the game" is an important one, especially as your daughter matures.  If your daughter wants therapy, then maybe you start out paying for 100%, but then you ratchet that down over time, to maybe 50% (or a set amount per month) and then lower.  Let your daughter take the lead on working out the details--maybe she reduces the frequency of therapy sessions; maybe she asks her therapist for a lower rate; maybe she finds a cheaper therapist, or one that's covered in her insurance plan.  She has to learn to work within budgetary constraints, because that's the "real world."  If she has skin in the game, she's much more likely to appreciate your support, as well as work out a solution.  But if you're paying for everything, she'll just hold out her hand for more money, while resenting you for not giving her enough.

I should clarify, as I believe I communicated badly. I didn't mean that you were being childish in letting the dishes accumulate.  I completely get not wanting to do somebody else's work for them.  What I was really trying to say is that, infuriating as it may be, a pwbpd is not likely to "give in" despite the growing mess.  So your options are what they are.  One of them includes letting the mess grow.  They do not include your husband suddenly seeing reason.  It stinks, I know.

To clarify... I don't mean "engage" in the sense of have contact, but engage in the sense of trying to change her perspective or behavior.

  Very true -- thank goodness for that.

CC43, your words really resonate and are wise.  In fact, I think I might print them out (without your handle attached) and carry them around in my purse to pull out when I am tempted to argue, cajole, or in any way engage!

Best regards.

Thanks so much!
I am doing mostly what both of you suggested.
Since he was 13 Ilwe began to talk in private about his moms “weird brain wiring”, not mentioning any medical terms which would compell him to google it.
I think he will be ok. The worst part for me is that I think he will
be motivated to move away from us much sooner than I would want him to. Also I find it heart breaking that I wont be able to be the parent figure I wanted to be as a father.
But I guess thats life. Like in a joke, how can you male God laugh? Just tell hom your plans.

One of the main concepts taught to people in therapy, 12 steps, basically anyone in an enabler position, or in a relationship with a disordered person (I am including this as many posters don't identify with the concept of co-dependency but are still in a relationship with someone with BPD) is this: we can not change another person and we need to not expect people to be different from who they are.

Many people, even non disordered people, don't respond well to criticism. It's invalidating. For someone with BPD, it's extremely invalidating, and can even cause them to dissociate. It's not going to work and its not going to help the situation.

It seems your wife has made improvement and also seems to be capable of parenting- not in all the ways you want her to be or wish she would be, but she probably can not change her inner "wiring" and how she perceives the world. Being critical of this is similar to being critical of her eye color, or height. It's a part of who she is. It may possibly be improved on but that could take a lot of intense therapy and she would need to be highly motivated to do so. At 16, it's more likely your son would reach adulthood and be out of the house sooner.

Children learn from both parents and they learn a lot from what you do, in addition to what you say. Your son has both of you as role models. IMHO the best intervention to expose your son to your outlook is to spend as much time as you can with him, doing the things that you enjoy. Introduce him to your career, (not with the pressure to enter the same one) but your enjoyment, pursuit, dedication to it, your hobbies, interests.

My parents were different people and I learned from each of them. As difficult as it is to hear or lean as a teen that a father can't or won't do anything about a BPD mother, in my situation, I think it was true. He couldn't and other people couldn't either. What mediated this for me was time with my father and also his family members who were mothers and who were different from mine. I also agree with Zachira's suggestion for counseling for your son if he's willing. When he ventures out into the world as a young adult- you are still his father. He will be influenced by both parents.

My father was in a similar position with my mother who had BPD and with me when I was a teenager. What kind of conflicts does your son have with his mother? Does he voice his opinions or remain silent? A moment that was very damaging to my self esteem and impaired my becoming a healthy adult, was when my father took me aside when I was around 16 and told me he could do nothing about my mother, that she had refused to seek help for her mental health problems. He made it clear he did not want me to voice my needs and opinions. Do discuss with your son the problems with his mother and let him know none of it is his fault, that his feelings, ideas, and opinions are important. Now is the time for him to gradually transition to becoming an adult in his own right, not to take care of his mentally ill mother. Perhaps you could find some counseling for him.

Hi, 20 y in marriage with a UPWBPD. Entering perimenopause my wife is much better and doesnt have tantrums and big episodes anymore at all. It started to grt better when she discovered a link between her digestion and state of mind and started to supplement for nerve calming.
The problem is that she still can not take any form of critisicm and reacts wildly to it. It is especially the problem
in upbringing of our 16 yo son. I learned to accept her and stick to her side in this respect but sometimes after our son leaves after our discussion together I try to discuss with her some simple issues that I have with her parental
position and this creates havoc.
So right now, at a very sensitive age for our son, I am basically forced to stat silent. As a parent she is mostly really good, a special education teacher working with kids for 25 years, but as a person she has grown in a family of really kind people
but totally afraid of virtually everything. Because of this she has very little self confidence and that has blocked her all of
her life.
I am totally opposite, self realized, big career and travelled a lot. I am not an adventurer and adrenalin seaker, quite the opposite, but I have great self confidence and am not afraid of life.
I am trying really hard to somehow raise our boy in this respect but its really hard because she paints a totally bleak picture of the world. when we talk about it she is saying that our job is not to present the beauties of the world because that is for him to discover, but to do this he must stay safe.
Sound good in theory but in practice it produces people that are blocked inside their little world, afraid of everything.
Any advice is really cherished, dont know what to do.

If you are in the US, the situation with therapy is similar to the child in college. Even though parents may be paying, the student's information about grades, and what they are doing remain confidential. There are ways for the child to consent to limited information- grades, financial information- to parents but parents dont get progress reports, or communication from professors. It's the same with therapists who are bound to HIPPA, confidentiality laws. 

Still, there is a boundary and that is it's your money involved here and so you have the choice to pay or not- either for college or therapy or anything these. With therapy, its difficult to know what is actually going on. All you know from your D is what she tells you and all the therapist knows from your D is what she tells her. What your D tells the therapist has a big influence on how effective therapy is.

BPD can be challenging due to the pwBPD projecting, and perceiving situations from victim perspective. It's clear that you love your D and are doing all you can to be supportive of her and to help her make progress. It's discouraging when she blames others and you for issues that she is facing. This isn't about you as much as her perspective with her BPD. Her work with the therapist is entirely between the two of them. There isn't a way to have a specific timeline for progress, but even without that, there could be benefits to her from having someone objective to talk to, and be a source of support, even if your D isn't entirely transparent with the T.

Your boundaries are your money, your house, your rules- at any age. The employment situation is hard to gage but the cleanliness of the room, in your house, is. You can have expectations that your D maintains a level of cleanliness, while still allowing her the freedom to have her room as she likes it. It can be messy without being past a standard of clean. You can decide on what you can manage financially with regards to paying for therapy. These aren't easy boundaries, and expect your D to be angry and blaming for them, but without these, you and your H will feel resentful.

This is a difficult situation. It was the reverse for me in terms of relationships- my mother had BPD. Little was known at the time about BPD in her era and so the response of family members was to keep her from feeling stressed. However, without any expectations of her, she didn't accomplish things and so didn't become competent. Rather than to take on a task that she felt uncertain about, she would escalate her behaviors, blame others and so tasks were done for her in order to avoid her BPD behaviors but this perpetuated them.

She had therapy and while it didn't lead to a solution to her BPD, it may have helped in other ways, that we don't know about. It was strictly confidential to her. She was very sensitive to the possibility that someone would "talk about her" and expose her. We were not allowed any communication with her therapists and in addition, if she had a close friend, it was best for me (as an adult)  to not have a relationship with that person and let that be her own world. As CC43 mentioned, your getting involved in your D's therapy can result in your D's losing trust in that relationship.

I have been no contact with my exwbpd for the most part. I have made a couple dumb decisions and reached out in moments of weakness. I have also felt that when he seems like he's in an extra bad spot, I should check on him because I am truly worried that he will kill himself.
When I need something however, me reaching out is unhealthy and tortuous. Have any of ya'll had your exbpd beg for you to talk to them, expect you to come over at the drop of a hat, to answer their hundreds of calls? Sometimes you do. But then the couple times you need something, they ignore you? Or tell you that talking to you is too unhealthy and they just want to get on with their life? It just feels so hypocritical and one sided all the time. I know i can't expect closure or kindness even but I guess it seems wild to me that there is so little compassion for someone you once claimed to love. And claim to love still. More than anything.

I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around the fact that there is so little accountability. So little understanding. The things he put me through are just so rough but he acts like they never happened or that they shouldn't be a big deal. Any time I give him an opportunity to apologize or make something right, he full tilts the opposite direction. Going through all of that is already so hard but then being told that your feelings around it aren't valid is such a stab to the heart. I just hate him and love him and hate that I love him. I am feeling so lost at sea.

Have any of ya'll felt the depression, dissociation, grief and pain get so bad that you worry that you might be capable of hurting yourself?