Trying one last time to paste my entire post in here…

Feeling an little overwhelmed today as I just finished signing the Docusign and paid the retainer for the divorce lawyer.

Kind of in shock to be honest and almost feels a little out of body. I’m in a little disbelief with myself. Still a ways to go but this feels like a big step forward.

Nothing has materially changed, it’s just where ive been headed. A couple of interesting things this past week though…

First it feels weird processing things and moving towards divorce when it’s my birthday and valentines is around the corner. I feel a little like I’m having to act my ass off. But don’t really have a choice but to pretend like things are normal for now.

So it was my birthday week last week

I don’t know I was having all sorts of technical issues and my post was posting incomplete so I’m trying a new post. If mods read this, you could delete my other post…

Feeling an little overwhelmed today as I just finished signing the Docusign and paid the retainer for the divorce lawyer.

Kind of in shock to be honest and almost feels a little out of body. I’m in a little disbelief with myself. Still a ways to go but this feels like a big step forward.

Nothing has materially changed, it’s just where ive been headed. A couple of interesting things this past week though…

First it feels weird processing things and moving towards divorce when it’s my birthday and valentines is around the corner. I feel a little like I’m having to act my ass off. But don’t really have a choice but to pretend like things are normal for now.

So it was my birthday week last week

Rowdy,

It came to me that your ex might have felt like she had to choose between the drugs and you because she realized that continuing to use them would destroy you, so she chose the drugs instead of you. And then in that sentence about not destroying you, she was talking about her drug usage (and perhaps also how it worsens her behavior). Maybe you already knew this. But anyway, I was a bit insensitive, so sorry for that.

There were times in which my wife was distancing herself from me because she thought that her limitations were too extreme, and I didn't deserve having to go through this. This was her trying to "free me from her problems."

A couple of years ago, I had asked my wife to stay in her mom's house a bit. However, I was very frustrated at her rages, so I was treating her extremely distantly, so she felt like she would not make me any good, and so she decided to stay in her mom's house permanently.

At first, I didn't question it because I was expecting her to improve somehow, at least in the way she treated me. However, two months later, since she was 10x worse in terms of anxiety and depression, I decided to literally "rescue her" from there. Because of her specific phobia worsening, I had to use a blindfold before approaching her, and she would not come out of the room, so it was really limiting. She noticed the burden it was placing on me, so she resisted coming back to our home. I convinced her to come for a weekend, and she accepted to stay but still "ran away" back to her mom's house on Monday. It took me a lot of talking to get her back home again. Then it took me more than one month to restore her mental health state. I had to treat her as a "home inpatient," serving her food in bed while always using a blindfold when I was near her. But it worked, at least to bring her anxiety and depression to the usual levels.

The point is that sometimes having a mentally ill partner may mean carrying a big burden on your back, which at times you might not want to, or your partner may decide that you don't have to.

From what I read, I see signs of codependency. Do you agree?

Yes I agree absolutely - I have sought out help for myself and I know this is essential. I have found the tools page and discussion board on co-depedency here as well which was very helpful. Finding a way to NOT be so impacted by his emotions & behaviors is crucial for my own mental health. I absolutely do love him and want the relationship to survive. This is a very vulnerable time for both he and I. I need to become better at setting boundaries - I can set boundaries easily with other people but not with him - it's proving to be very challenging.

To be honest exactly the same as Pook.

My ex was my best friends sisters best friend, so I’ve known her most of my life. I was with her from the age of 21 until I was 48. My kids are similar in age to Pooks as well, 22 and 26 but both boys. Everything Pook says I can relate in exactly the same way apart from the religious part as I, my ex and family are not religious.

It was a little difficult earlier. My eldest came round to look in the loft for useful things for the birth of his child in a few months.
He brought down several boxes of photographs and we sat looking through them. My ex was 19 and I was 23 when we had him and there were many photos of us together as a family when he was a baby, which made me both happy and sad looking through them.

Hello Delta and welcome to the family!  I'm so sorry you're in this position and I'm equally sorry that there aren't any solutions to this problem.

Why?  You're dealing with three generations of mental illness and entitlement, and cutting off one hurts all three.  Normally, if we were only talking about the daughter or the granddaughter, then we'd advise to help them see that they must move on from the cycle they're currently in.  But when it's three people completely co-dependent on others while refusing to even try to make ends meet, then no amount of help will ever be enough.  They'll simply spend the money and expect more.

Hopefully you can see here that the problem isn't money.  They just want money so that's what you hear about.  The real problem, however, is mental illness and entitlement.

Let's get to your questions, and I'm going to start backwards since your most important question is last.

What kind of help would be beneficial?  That's easy, get the youngest out of there, get her into therapy in a balanced home.  But here's the problem with that, only she can decide what is best for her.  If she wants to stay in the chaos, she'll stay and there's nothing that anyone can do about it.

What's best for the daughter?  The answer is exactly the same and it has the same limitations- only she can decide that for herself and her kid.

What's best for grandma?  I'm not sure.  This could possibly be an elder abuse scenario so I worry about the wellbeing of all three.  Yet grandma still gets to decide what's best for her.

Can you see the pattern here in these answers?  You can't do ANYTHING to make this situation better unless they actually want things to change.  They're not asking for that though, they're asking for more money.

So they want your money, you want to help, but you want to be the adult in the room as well and figure out a way to instill some boundaries.  What are the boundaries when it comes to money?  In other words, "I will help you with $xxx when you __________________________ but I won't help if you _________________________________."

That's an actual boundary and it's for you.  They are the ones making the choice to respect your boundary or ignore it.  If they respect it, you go with the first part of the above sentence.  If they ignore it, you go with the latter half.  The boundary is the only thing you can actually control.

I understand you feel guilty.  We all want to help friends and family.  They must be willing to help themselves, however, and it doesn't sound like they're doing that.  Giving them money only ensures that it will be another month, another year, before they even consider doing something different.  Because here's the thing- unless you're filthy rich, you're not the only one.  Many, many people are supporting them as well and they are so used to it, it feels like an entitlement.

The answer here is to make a very clear boundary about when you will and won't help.  And maybe you don't want to be that involved in their lives, I can understand why.  Maybe this is a family conversation instead of a "you thing".  Hopefully you can see though that you don't owe them anything and you've been taken advantage of for a very long time.

"Cutting them off" is honestly the most compassionate thing you can do because it forces them to make tough decisions...do they become homeless, or do they try something different?  There's no reason for them to try anything else when family is making it easy.  And if everyone did cut them off, then maybe the teen would end up in a much better position in life with a different family member.

Oh it’s definitely about the pwBPD. I was not aware of bpd and don’t even know if that’s what my ex has, although since hearing about it, watching videos, relating with every single account of it and the box ticking on the DSM I am 95% sure she does.

With that being said, I chose the words “stop getting drugs you are killing me” because I thought it might shock her into, well…… stop getting drugs. With the knowledge I have now, I can see and understand what might have gone through her head …….. I think she is bad for getting them, she is actually killing me etc and would have tried a different tact.

Was I wrong to tell her to stop. No of course I wasn’t. Was I looking out for her best interests. Yes of course I was.

But that didn’t matter, and it was too late. I had wounded her.

So she goes off with someone that can validate her. The person that actually supplied her with cocaine. And also shared an unhealthy appetite for gin…….. Mothers ruin they call it.

And in doing so ignored all the red flags that comes with the new fp. A man that lies through his teeth. Neglects and abuses children. Animal neglect and abuse. Verbal physical and emotional abuse to his spouse. Alcohol problem and drug addiction for over 30 years. Claims of sexual abuse. Claims of catching fatal disease. Lacks morals. I’m not perfect but out of that little lot I can only hold my hand up to abusing drugs although I hated it and begged her to stop.

Now, nobody in their right mind would want that in their lives, but a pwBPD is not exactly in their right mind. Throw a heap of love bombs at them and it makes them feel great, and then they think they are in love. Added bonus points for using him for his money. So was it my fault. No not really. Is it all about the pwBPD and their version of feelings based reality. Of course it is.

For me, I met my BPD ex in college and was married to her up until age 49.  So I don't know what "detaching" is supposed to look like with someone you've spent +50% of your life with.

Do I hate what she did?  Yes. 

Do I hate her?  No. 

Am I over the relationship?  100%. 

Do I know what to do with decades of mainly good memories raising the kids, family vacations, Christmas, etc?  Nope...I am clueless how to "let that go" or if I even should.

Over 50% of my identity was driven by living life and maturing with my ex.  I can't just erase that or pretend like it didn't happen.  And I realize it's so much easier to just hate someone, to see the absolute worst and say good riddance, but that's not who I am as a person.

How does it show up- usually late at night when I'm still and trying to clear my mind to sleep.  I'll reminisce a bit and then catch myself, and have to push those thoughts away.  Mainly, it's wondering how she could do what she did and how she can live with it now.

Does it feel steady, stop-start, or something else?- Its random and it's not every day or even every week.  It just sort of shows up from time to time and I'll struggle for an hour or two.

What part of it has been hardest to sit with so far? - I still grieve the loss of my family of four being torn apart, all the lies that came afterwards, all the manipulation of in-laws and others to cover up the fact my ex was having an affair.  These are religious people and my ex was more afraid of what they'd think of her than what it said for her personal faith.  I mean, you can't lie to God, so what's there to gain by deceiving everyone you know?  That sort of eats at me.

Hi Delta- this is a complicated situation- and also you have the right to protect your finances. You aren't obligated to support this family. As hard as it is to step back, you realized that your enabling wasn't helping their independence and it also took a financial toll on you.

Looking at the members involved- other than the 18 year old- whose potential is unknown, they are probably not capable of being self sufficient. It's good that they have the pension but are not capable of managing it.

An important part of this is who gets the pension. The elderly aunt may be eligible for some Medicaid care at home or a nursing home (it's different than Medicare). I am assuming you are in the US but if not, this might not apply.

However if she gets the pension, and it's over a certain ammount, she may not qualify. If she did, Medicaid would take the pension but this would leave the others in dire straits. So that's not a good idea for now.

If the 50 year old has an intellectual disability, she may be eligible for social security disability if she qualifies.

If whoever gets the pension is found to be mentally legally incompetent, a family member can make a case for financial guardianship if someone reliable is willing. This could incur legal costs and a court appearance and so would only be worth it if certified as incompetent by a medical professional.

I think a first step in all this is for you to make an appt at the social security office to discuss the situation and get ideas of what they may qualify. For the older person, a local council on aging can give you information, if any.

If the adults are legally competent, there's not a lot you can do to intervene. As social services once said to me "your parents are legally competent to make their own bad decisions".

It makes sense that these family members will be manipulative. Feeling guilty, I think it's a part of the situation because you do care but you also need to have your boundaries. You have no obligation to support them. For me, groups like CODA, ACA, helped me to manage my own tendencies to "help too much".

Sometimes people don't change until they have to. It may be that the whole situation has to topple before changes can happen. That change may be that the elder person eventually needs a nursing home, or they depend on resources like soup kitchens. If the living situation gets bad enough, social services may need to look into it.

The younger one seems to be trapped in this situation. However, she is being useful and gaining skills as a caregiver. One idea for her may be to start with getting her nursing assistant certification at a local community college, and then she could also work a bit while caring for her grandmother. With some maturity, she could continue schooling later if she chooses. She may first need to get a GED. It's also possible she has some intellectual disability if her mother does but if so, there may be supportive work programs for her.

Hardest part for me is realizing I love her, but hate her behaviour. We are getting seperated right now, but still I feel sorry for her. Was she my extra child I took care of?