A pwBPD, like an alcoholic or drug addict or similar, likely won't "hit bottom" until there is no other option.  Problem is, no one can state in advance when that might be.  You might think, "This time it's her bottom", yet the chaos, blaming and rages continue.  You might think she's bottomed out many times and still she doesn't reverse course and truly seek help.  No one can predict how many false bottoms.

The only way to recognize a true bottom is when she seeks real help and diligently applies it in her life, perceptions and behavior over an extended period of time.  There are no quick fixes.  Granted, she would "fall off the wagon" but true recovery means she would get back up and keep working on herself.  It would be a long, long series of "two steps forward and one step back".

That's IF and WHEN she chooses recovery.  She may never fully recover, to be realistic, but in the spirit of "something is better than nothing", it would be an improvement for herself and those around her.

Hi again,

I'm sorry I missed this detail when I responded to you earlier.  I agree that there's always a risk of your niece re-writing history and accusing you of nefarious things.  My adult BPD stepdaughter tried pulling that stunt a few times.  Initially, I tended to give her the benefit of the doubt.  But as time passed, her claims became more outlandish, and she started to change her tune when challenged.  In parallel, as I discovered more details about past incidents from other people, I realized that she had wildly misrepresented events, always portraying herself as a victim, when more often than not, she was the abuser!

I have some additional advice for you, which is this:  please don't let your niece stay with you in your home again.  It sounds to me like your home is her back-up housing plan.  Let me guess:  she loses a job, gets evicted or breaks up with a romantic partner, and she expects you to take her in, right?  She can't stay with her own mom because she's toxic, right?  I've been in the same situation with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  She has rebounded to my home several times in her adult life, basically every time she quits and gives up--her job, her rooming situation, her one-week romance, her studies.  When she lives with me, she's essentially on vacation, in the sense that she's vacating her life.  Sure, she promises to work and be nice, that this time will be different, but she keeps her promises for only a few days.  She avoids responsibilities and dealing with real life.  By letting her stay in our home, we're essentially enabling continued dysfunction, and we can't get away from her very negative aura.  That is not good for me or my husband, or our marriage.  And enabling dysfunction is not good for her, not at all.  My opinion is that by "helping" her, we're actually hurting her, because she's able to avoid getting professional help and working on herself.

Your niece might guilt-trip into you helping her.  She might accuse you of being a horrible person until you relent.  She might make all sorts of promises to convince you to let her stay with you.  She'll try to push all your buttons--of fear, obligation and guilt.  PwBPD can be extremely manipulative that way, but they're good at it, because it has worked for them in the past.  But here's the thing:  your niece has gone "nuclear" already.  If she doesn't get what she wants, she threatens suicide.  If you take her seriously and call 911, she turns around and hates you for believing her!  Then she starts threatening you.  It seems to me that she's MAD:  threatening mutually assured destruction.  That's why you can't let her live with you anymore.  You can't fix her.  Only she can do that.  You are not the solution to her problems; she is.  I think she'll decide to get help only once she hits bottom.  If you prevent her from hitting bottom by allowing her a safety hammock in your house, you run the risk of ruining your life right alongside hers.

I know this might sound like tough love for your niece, but really it's tough love for you.  Please, help yourself by saving yourself first.  Let your niece live on her own or get evicted.  Mabye then she'll have a breakdown, hit bottom and decide to get professional help, because getting professional help will seem like her only remaining option.  Please don't let your couch be an option for her.  All that does is prolong her misery and include you in it.

I do not actually feel better right now. I am scared. This could get really really bad. I know what I need to do, but getting there safely is going to be a challenge.

My attitudes and patterns have changed the past few months as I started to figure things out. It is hard to say if she has noticed. One thing that was a change is that I started to allow myself to show anger when she interrupted me. She has been doing this for many years, and I have tried talking to her about it. But when I started to get angry about it the behavior changed. She interrupts me a whole lot less now. But it seems to be a subconscious response, and she has not said anything about it.

I know that my anger (or any anger) is tough for her to handle. It is unfortunate, but the few times I have gotten really angry at her are the times that there have been changes. But I do not want her to be different because of fear.

But for the most part I do try to play the game.I keep doing all the things I have always done to keep things calm. Sometimes I dislike that I am doing it, but my therapist reminded me that I am doing it to keep myself emotionally safe.

There are some books on this site about ways to do the split. I really need to get and read one of those to help me find a safe way to extract myself.

Thank you for your time and thoughts.

Hi Ted and welcome to the forums!  I'm so sorry you found us under these circumstances but you are in the right place.

Nobody here wants to scare you and many of us have been in the identical situation.  I've called the police on my BPD daughter a dozen times or more, and brought her to facilities several more times.  It never gets easier and early on, I took her wrath for betraying her.

What you'll learn in time though is that BPDs are highly manipulative and destructive.  I dialed 9-1-1 every time my daughter threatened suicide and guess what- she stopped threatening after a few times.  Why?  Because she didn't want to die, she wanted me to be in a panic over her and come rushing in to save the day (by doing whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, at any cost). 

And don't get me wrong, she might have felt suicidal in the moment.  But if you're going to hurt yourself, would you call someone first to tell them about it and go into detail blaming them?  Probably not.  You'd just hurt yourself.  The fact that she blamed you was just an outpouring of unstable emotion and you absolutely did the correct thing...you call 9-1-1 every single time.

Now, she might lose her job or be evicted.  But is that on you?  Really be honest with yourself here because you did nothing wrong and you were manipulated into making the call in the first place.  This is 100% on your niece and she will accept that or she won't...my guess is she won't because that's what BPDs do.  They blame everyone around them and seek to punish them when they feel betrayed.

Besides, the ploice showed up and she was still hysterical.  They didn't take her to the hospital just for the heck of it.  She needed to be seen and treated.

The title of your thread ends with "I need help."  We'll certainly do everything we can to help you.  But here's the thing, you're here because you want help.  Your niece refuses help or medication.  Hopefully you can see that those are two completely different things.  You can't help her or save her- she must be willing to help herself first.

You did right.  No one here will criticize you for calling for a wellness check.  Many members have reported being faced with hearing suicide threats.  The best response is to admit we aren't trained to distinguish how real suicide ideations might be.  Therefore it is best to call in those trained to handle such situations... 911, suicide hotlines, police or other emergency responders.

After a few instances of the above your niece ought to learn to stop making such threats since doing so causes real consequences.

Proactively, it would be smart of you to save and archive any communications you receive (texts, phone calls, etc) where she either states how good you are or apologizes for acting poorly.

I was in a similar situation- early 40's, my BPD ex suddenly turned nasty every now and then.  It was never a full explosion like she had in her early 20's, but she'd snap at me over nothing and then pretend like it never happened.  Each year in her 40's, it got worse and she was also tested for early menapause.  I haven't heard many others talk about that here but I've always thought there was a direct connection.  My ex would have been the unconventional type as well.

I did want to point out that mood stabilizers can certainly help BPDs since...well, they help stabilize moods.  BPDs are given a wide range of prescriptions to treat the symptoms of their condition (depression, mood swings, etc) and they also tend to not like how the medicine makes them feel.  None of us are doctors or psychiatrists here so we can't talk that in depth, I just wanted you to know that medicines absolutely can help if the right combination is found by her doctor.

One more thing- getting out does not mean ending the marriage.  In many cases, it can improve it considerably.  This is a hard boundary just like anything else, saying that you're not going to accept the abuse anymore.  It could be a good first step if you decide to take it.

I wish you luck and please keep us updated!

I'm so sorry to hear your latest update; I've been there as well and it's so heartbreaking.  My quick backstory, I was married to a BPD wife and had a BPD daughter, plus a 2nd daughter.  Teenage years were bad...every bad.  Then suddenly my wife left for another man and turned the kids against me.  This was about 4 years ago.

Going though that was so impossible, but I found myself standing on a self-made motto, "This is only for right now, it's not for forever."

My non-BPD daughter gave birth the same month my ex-wife left, and within 6 weeks I was cut off completely because she needed mom and I was being unreasonable.  Deep down I got it but man, it hurt so badly.  I got over my wife in time, I made up quickly with my BPD daughter because she was constantly playing the parents against each other, but my relationship with my other kid and newborn grandson vanished.

"This is only for right now, it's not for forever."  That's all I had and I clung to it as tightly as I could.

Eventually, my daughter figured out her mom was in fact cheating and lied to everyone about everything concerning our marriage.  Slowly, we rebuilt the relationship and there were a lot of bumps in the road because of mom and sister.  But we did get there and things are better than they've ever been.

For your husband, it's time to face a very hard truth- he may never have a relationship with his son.  It's not up to him though and he can't control anything about it- his son is getting bombarded in every direction.  I know because that was me.  I was always so stressed out and frustrated without even realizing it, but every day was some major battle with what felt like life or death consequences.  

However, this is still hope, it's just not the kind of hope you can sit back and eagerly wait for.  Your husband has to let go completely and accept that he's powerless to fix what's wrong with his son.  He's in a terrible marriage (referring to the son) and so far over his head, and if he tells dad that then there's going to be absolute hell to pay at home.  So he puts his head down and gets to work, just like I did.

This stinks for everyone involved and I'm so sorry.  But I'll say my little motto one more time, "This is only for right now, it's not for forever."

I agree with CC43's scenario, that stepson is trying not to antagonize his spouse.  So many of us here experienced the demands of a spouse to blacklist our families.  And living day in and day out with such intense pressure and repeated interrogations can break a person, just like Stockholm syndrome.

Hi Ted,

Try not to beat yourself up too much about your niece.  I'd say at least 99% of the people here are here precisely because a pwBPD has complicated their lives so much that they're in distress.  That's why the number one piece of advice you'll find here is to take care of yourself first.  You're no good to your niece if you're a basket case.  Besides, if you're really stressed out, it's hard to think straight.  Here we call that operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  SInce you're not the parent, my guess is that you don't feel as much obligation and guilt as fear--both fear OF and FOR your pwBPD.  Added to that is generalized fear of triggering your pwBPD over seemingly nothing.  Here we call that "walking on eggshells."

In other words, it's normal to feel stressed out, especially when your pwBPD is acting out.  We highly recommend taking a break from her if you need one.  You don't have to announce or explain it, just do it--pull away for a time, get busy, don't read her texts or emails as much, don't respond if you don't want to.  You focus on you.  You don't have to get "sucked in" to your niece's drama.  If she's lashing out, you can let her go into an "adult time out."  It's not your job to regulate her emotions.

If she's vaguely threatening suicide (I can't take this anymore, it's hopeless, I don't want to be here anymore), you could ask her if she would like you to dial 911 or 988 for her--that way you're validating her, but also giving her a choice.  If she doesn't want you to dial for help, then you can breathe easier knowing she's not really serious and doesn't really want the help.

As for fear of a lawsuit, do you really think your niece will file?  My guess is she doesn't know how to do such a thing.  Would she have money to hire a lawyer and file a complaint?  Would she be able to figure out how to file a claim by herself?  My guess is, probably not--she's just making empty threats in moments of overwhelming emotions.  Look, she didn't even figure out how to call in sick to work, or summon an Uber to get home from the hospital.  She doesn't sound very functional in what I call "administrative" affairs.  I think this is fairly common in young adults with BPD, because they've had a lifetime of adults around them who over-function for them, in the name of keeping them stable.  But after a lifetime of receiving help from the adults around them, they've neglected learning some valuable adulting skills, especially figuring out how to do complicated things on their own.

Indeed, she sounds like a bully.  It's great that you recognize that her behavior is triggering to you.  One suggestion I have for you is to try slow walking.  That's a reminder to slow down your responses to your niece.  If you slow walk, you not only give her more time and space to regulate her emotions, but you give yourself some time to do the same!  I know, pwBPD make everything sound so urgent, like it's a matter of life and death.  But most of the time, it's not.  I'd say, try to slow down your responses.  If she asks for money, your default response might be, "Let me think about it over the weekend."  If she asks for logistical help, your default response might be, "Let me check my calendar and get back to you later."  If she calls or texts, your default response might be to reply a day later, or on the weekend, when it's convenient for you.  Maybe you have to consult your wife first, too (if you have one).  Just make up a reason to delay and stick to it.  Buy yourself some time and space.  Chances are, the problem might go away before you even respond.  At the very least, you have a chance to think things through before reacting.  Maybe the best reaction is no reaction at all, in the hopes that everything blows over.

Thanks for the quick reply, it was very helpful. A couple notes:

Her employer knows she was in the hospital because that's who she called to pick her up!! Without too much detail, it's kind of a housekeeping job, and she considers the employer like a friend. But there were other people she could have called. When I asked her why she called them, she said "Well, I was supposed to show up that day". As if she couldn't have simply called in sick!

As for meds- she did take Seroquel for quite a while, and it seemed to keep a lid on the extremes of anger. She only stopped when she lost a job and health insurance at the same time. I once saw her taking Ziprasidone, which to my mind REALLY helped her, made her into a normal person! But she said it was making her too tired. But recently, before this incident, she was asking about it. She knows she has a problem, seems willing to take some action on it. I just wonder if it she would stay committed to therapy, she gives up on many things easily.

I doubt I would be convicted of anything she could accuse me of. My fear is of being dragged through the mud and having to pay for lawyers and all the stress it would cause. I mean, I have my own issues- I was bullied as a child and this is bringing up quite strong emotions of being threatened and bullied. I had to get my doctor to give me some valium!

Anyway, I just hope she keeps her job and apartment. I have been her "Favorite Person" for several years now. I am seeing what a burden that can become. I need to step back from her, but my understanding is that it may not be easy to do. At any rate, I can see how traumatic calling the police was for her, and wish I could take it back, but I can't. I just have to hope for the best.

Thanks again.
Ted