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 81 
 on: November 03, 2026, 08:56:10 PM  
Started by maxsterling - Last post by ForeverDad
Max, I will mention here how our situations are similar in some ways but not in others, and how the legal aspects of divorce may impact how family court processes and "unwritten" policies seem to arrive at outcomes.  Even if you make no decisions now, it would be wise to seek some interviews or consultations of experienced family law attorneys.  Their legal advice will aid you in your interim decisions.  No need to go so far as to retain a lawyer until a need arises.

By the end of my contentious divorce I had been married 18 years and I paid 3 years alimony, two months for every year married.  Yours is only 12 years - sort of middling length thus far - so there also might be some alimony but not too long.  These days alimony is somewhat limited with the goal to help the disadvantaged ex to get settled in post-marriage life.

The major difference between us was that I had a very entitled spouse who at the end was extremely disparaging and possessive of "her" child.  So both BPD and NPD traits, though never diagnosed.  Apparently courts stay away from seeking diagnoses unless murder is involved, or it seems so with the high profile cases.  To summarize, they deal with (1) people as they are and (2) documentation and evidence while (3) moving the case along so slowly they're hoping the litigants will settle before they have to make decisions.

Though I separated when my child was 3yo, I will relate what happened then our child was 9yo, same as yours.

Divorce had ended 3 years before but she was still viewing me as a second-rate parent.  By then we had Shared Parenting, equal custody and equal time.  With the continuing conflict, I filed for custody and majority time.  Her alimony calc was about to end and her income was generously imputed at minimum wage.  Our GAL and the judge supported a deal where I did win custody but ex won with equal time unchanged... so she kept child support.  It was all about the art of the deal... masked as a settlement and not a court decision.

Our son was 9yo and didn't really know enough to not be influenced.  That's why minors don't attend court with the parents.  We eventually had a Guardian ad Litem (GAL - the children's lawyer).  Therapists, doctors and other professionals could share their input with the GAL without going into court and risking lawsuits or licensing complaints.

Conflict and entitled disparagement continued so I file again for the failed majority time.  This time the GAL was fed up with my ex.  ("Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.")  My ex's lawyer filed for court to have an "in camera" interview with our child, by then age 11.  Court allowed it.  (Usually kids are middle-school age or older.)  Magistrate and GAL spoke privately with him, no direct questions.  I'm told he spoke normally when discussing daddy, but lost eye contact when discussing mommy.  School also testified about problems with the mother.  The decision was majority time for me but only during the school year.  It felt to me that school got more credibility than I did, even though my experiences were throughout the year.  That finally deflated her entitlement a bit, we didn't go back to court again.

It would be wise to document the patterns you experience now since specific incidents (date, time, witnesses, details, etc) are important.  Time also is a factor, courts typically ignore most incidents older than 6 months before filing.  They call older incidents "legally stale" since if it was important enough you would have filed sooner, I guess.  Perhaps older incidents might be a basis to claim a pattern of behavior.

Beware of trying to be "too fair" or "too nice".  Court will be sure to more than protect your spouse.  Your task is to protect yourself and your parenting.  So don't Gift Away too much parenting.  My been there, done that advice is:  Get the best (least bad) court order, even the initial temporary one, because it will be an immense uphill struggle (think Sisyphus rolling that boulder up that mountain every day) to get it back.

 82 
 on: November 03, 2026, 07:08:54 PM  
Started by united for now - Last post by ForeverDad
It is wise to avoid the "YOU" word since that is so often triggering and pwBPD typically overreact.  It is better to make your boundary about yourself.  It still may not go well but at least we try our best.

One of my strategies is to say, "This topic is stressing me out; let's talk about something else, OK?"  That's pretty easy to say, because it's true!  If she says, "Yes, but . . . " and ignores my request, I'll say something stronger, like, "I'm not comfortable discussing this anymore; if we continue, I'll have to call it a day."  And if she continues, I extricate myself as politely as possible:  "See you later, bye," which is easiest on a phone call.  I call this the "three strikes rule," whereby she CHOOSES whether or not she strikes out.  If she wants to keep the conversation going, eventually she learns to change tack after the first or second warning.  I just try to make the warning about my own discomfort, rather than blaming her.

 83 
 on: November 03, 2026, 06:55:14 PM  
Started by zachira - Last post by ForeverDad
yet I am the kind of person who would call an ambulance if the neighbor needed one.

I hadn't spoken with a sibling and neighbor for the past several years yet when I noticed he could save a few hundred dollars a year I felt impelled to cautiously inform him.  As expected, it didn't go well, he was snotty and critical.  Yet it was who I am.  I can't regret that.

 84 
 on: November 03, 2026, 03:53:48 PM  
Started by Prouncer - Last post by maxsterling
  Sometimes we can't go fully NC because of complications such as having long term entwined finances or having children together.

This is the red flag I missed.  W has many previous partners or friends who went "NC".  I felt bad for her, because I have had that happen to me, too.  And for my W, there was also a list of people whom she had decided to go NC with. 

So my question regarding the pwBPD in your life - do they have a lifelong history of previous partners, friends, or family members who went NC?

 85 
 on: November 03, 2026, 02:53:06 PM  
Started by zachira - Last post by zachira
Notwendy,
Thank you for your feedback. You have said what I fear the most: There is no nice way to tell this woman that her disclosures are inappropriate and she is going to take what I say badly. I believe this happened with the married man she is so obsessed with. She claims he came onto her, which does not seem likely. He is angry with both her and me. I know that I will likely become the new obsession as she complains to other people about me. I am lucky in that other people are aware of how she is, and have known me for many years, a lot longer than they have known her. I don't think there are many people that will fall for her smear campaign though some will, And there is not much I can do about that. For the future, I need to distance myself from this type of person. It is hard for me, as I remember when I was terribly emotionally dysregulated for many years.

 86 
 on: November 03, 2026, 02:44:40 PM  
Started by maxsterling - Last post by CC43
I'm so torn on that- part of me agrees with you, that she 100% believed that it was true.  But another part of me wonders if it was guilt and projecting because she felt lousy that she did so little (which led to depression, which led to her doing even less, which led to more depression...).


Pook, you're the best.  Guess what?  I agree with you on both points.  I think that both can be true, even at the same time with BPD!  They feel they are trying really hard, and at the same time, they feel lousy because even though they're trying, deep down they know they falling short, and the shame is unbearable.  They are simultaneously unhappy about how hard and unfair life feels, and unhappy with feelings of inadequacy.  I think it all ties into the victim mindset and the learned helplessness.  

To your example of the failing business:  you were right to feel devastated.  Trust me, I ran a small business once too, and it is a lot of pressure having to completely "own" your own mistakes.  You can't even really take a break, because everything depends on you.  In the face of a huge setback, it's a natural reaction shut down, conserve energy and maybe temporarily lose hope.  But eventually, you took stock of the situation, and you decided to problem-solve, to resolve to work it out and fix the situation.  That is resilience and mental toughness--grit--perhaps mixed with vision, a little faith and optimism.  These are gifts that some people have, but I'd say that pwBPD are sorely lacking.

 87 
 on: November 03, 2026, 02:44:31 PM  
Started by zachira - Last post by zachira
"No more one-way relationships and no more wasting time just to try avoiding hurting someone's feelings."

Pook075, I seem to have mastered the first part more than the second. I have been vigilant for quite awhile about one-way relationships, though I stumble when there is some reciprocity, like with this woman, even though most of the conversations were about meeting her needs. I have another thread in which I talk about wanting to be a good neighbor to my highly narcissistic neighbor, like telling her she left her garage door open. Notwendy hit the nail on the head, when she told me I could not do that (because of how it would reopen the door to again being abused by that neighbor), yet I am the kind of person who would call an ambulance if the neighbor needed one.

I would so like to be able to be nice while setting the firm boundaries with disordered people before they become so attached to me that they want my undivided attention. Healthier people than myself would have likely seen the red flags sooner and would have distanced themselves before the disordered person became attached to them.

Pook075,
Thank you for sharing about your journey.  

 88 
 on: November 03, 2026, 02:42:24 PM  
Started by zachira - Last post by Notwendy
Is there any kind nice way for me to tell someone like her that what she is disclosing is inappropriate?

In my own opinion, no. Someone who reaches a certain age and has not picked up on that skill is unlikely to learn it. Also, I think they'd be very triggered by that. Even if it is revealing TMI- that kind of information is emotionally raw. They are probably not in the mindset to take a constructive comment.

All relationships have required boundaries and what we disclose needs to match the relationship. Hearing this kind of information from a long time friend is different from someone we meet in the park, or at work.

This is a problem with boundaries and to me a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) to keep this person at the aquaintance level at the most.

 89 
 on: November 03, 2026, 02:34:25 PM  
Started by maxsterling - Last post by Notwendy


The woman chose to have a relationship with recently I would not consider "a catch" and probably was not a very good choice, just a convenient choice with someone who gave her attention.  But despite that, W still obsessed, and when the GF felt engulfed and pulled away a little.

You brought up something interesting that I hadn't thought of. My mother's era was more traditional. Men took women out on formal dates. My mother's family told me she had lots of dates, and she did.  In someone's late teens and 20's, dates were fun. If the only expectation is to dress up, go out, have fun going to a dance or movies, there'd really be no difference between her and her other same age peers. In current times, for your wife being a bit young and wild would not stand out.

As she got older, I noticed BPD mother's friend circle change a bit. My parents maintained some friends as a couple, and after my father passed, her circle of people consisted of people who I thought were a bit odd, or  younger than she was or they were people she hired to help her.  She seemed to have a sort of mother-daughter type relationship with younger friends. Since she still seemed to like social situations, we thought she'd enjoy being in assisted living as there were social events. I recall meeting the other residents there. They were very friendly- mentally intact and while they were there to have help with some tasks, they'd sit out on the porch together, have meals together. They would invite my mother- and even me- when visiting to join them. My mother didn't do that. She became reclusive. Her prefered company were her caretakers. She wouldn't even go eat meals in the dining hall and had them brought to her room.

I think it might be the maturity gap. A pwBPD acting like a teen among people in their 20's - that isn't a big gap. For your wife - looking for a partner she had to look at someone- for better words- possibly what you see as "not a catch" for her- possibly because it was your wife's looks that she brought to the table, but the other women, being "older" emotionally didn't tolerate the behaviors. For my mother, choosing younger friends was less of a maturity gap.

However, once in assisted living, the residents there were all at an age of maturity having gained years of experience and wisdom. At this age, looks are not really on the table as much as companionship is. For BPD mother, this may have been too much of a challenge to sustain a relationship with them and her concerns about being exposed as different or worried about what people might say led to her avoiding contact with them. Maybe this is one reason she was more reclusive. I had not thought of that.

What this means for you Max is that for now, old age isn't on your agenda. Your focus is on the kids and supporting the family. However, from what I have seen, even healthy older and independent adults might need some help at some point, with household tasks, or errands. I think it's fair to assume that while you can help your wife, she is unable to help you. She also isn't able to make sound decisions. I think it would be wise to look into a plan at some point, even if it isn't needed ever, but to appoint someone you trust as emergency POA and possibly some investments your wife can't spend all at once.  Since your wife is on SSI  learn the rules about that and Medicaid so that any savings, trusts, don't disqualify her for help if she were to need it. Just having the information so you know what to do some say may help.








 90 
 on: November 03, 2026, 02:15:01 PM  
Started by zachira - Last post by Pook075
CC43,
You hit the nail on the head: I need to make friends with people whose focus is not on endless trauma. I will use your suggestions to share more of what I am interested in with others and to start doing more activities that I enjoy by participating in groups where I can do these things. I continue to work on mainly associating with people who have the capacity for reciprocal interactions and do not blindside me with endless rants about their traumas like my mother with BPD used to do.

After divorce with my BPD ex, I worked hard on repairing relationships in my life since my focus was always 100% on the home and keeping my ex happy.  And as I found this site and learned about validating and/or enabling behavior, so many of my relationships suddenly appeared to be completely one-sided.  Both of my daughters took advantage of me, yet never showed up when dad needed help.  My brother was basically living off me and I allowed it because I was being a "good guy".  There were several others as well that I had causal relationships with that never really led to anything that benefited me.

It would be easy to say that my brother and my kids were jerks taking advantage of me, but the truth was that I allowed it to happen.  I don't think it's a bad thing to be a people-pleaser, but I've learned to direct my time and energy towards people who give it right back.  No more one-way relationships, and no more wasting time just to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

For instance, my BPD daughter sometimes just wants to rant...and I'll listen for a few minutes.  I'll give advice or help if I can.  But if it becomes apparent that this is just going to be a call that, "My life sucks, everyone sucks, the world sucks, etc" then I quickly end the conversation.  Or if we're in person, I will grab a towel, start cleaning stuff around us, then walk off to another room like something urgent just happened.  When I return a moment later, I'll bring up a fun story from our past or something I recently saw on TV.

My point is this- it's better to be lonely than have lousy friends.  Find hobbies and the right types of friends will likely follow as you pursue those hobbies.  Or find somewhere to volunteer about something you're passionate about.  I still want to try homes for humanity and I've volunteered at animal shelters and in prison ministry.  Those things really changed my life and they were things that mattered to me, so it was a win/win.  I also met others who thought like I thought in that pursuit as well though.

I hope that helps!

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