Their thinking and perceptions are not normal, it's corrupted by, yes, their personality disorder.  Even reasonably normal people want to avoid blame, but their Blame Shifting and Denial is to an extreme.

We wish logic and reason would prevail, and sometime it might do so briefly, but this is a long, difficult path and many refuse to start and even those to start may quit and fail to recover.

When there are insights, great, but long term one can't even predict whether a successful outcome, or even a reasonable "two steps forward and one step back".

Hi @Pook075 ,

Thanks for clarifying. Indeed, I'm on the verge of forcefully ending our living together for good, even though I know she will deteriorate and our relationship could then become inviable. But I haven't taken any steps in that direction yet.

And I do think that the electronic devices, if correctly constructed, would end up bettering the relationship. Women usually use their voice as a weapon, so this is a simple disarmament strategy. And with that weapon off the table, living together would become "survivable" for me, allowing me to live more of a normal life. And more relaxed, I'd be a better provider, father, husband, and caretaker.


Your experience must be very different than mine because of their and our differences.

She gets compassion from me for everything she faces, except when she is being abusive, and no empathy for her abuse either. And here I'm not misusing the word "abuse." The word "bullying" is even more appropriate, as used in my initial post.

For the first half of our relationship (1.5 years), I never ever reacted badly. Not that I didn't want to, but I had a lot of experience and maturity and have always had extreme self-control capabilities. While BPD has an overactive amygdala, an underactive hippocampus, and little prefrontal cortex activation, I have the very opposite of that. That means an underactive amygdala (no fear, no alarm system, little emotional response), a high capacity to distinguish the current context from previous ones (big overdeveloped hippocampus), and I keep planning my next moves before choosing them, as if I were in a chess game (reliance on prefrontal cortex).

Yet, at a given point, since I had asked her to leave and she refused, I began to counter. But not because I could not hold myself. I just wanted to add a sort of positive punishment, as in operant conditioning.

Did it make things worse? In the long run, I don't think so. It does scale up her anger at the moment, but in the long run it puts a limit on her abuse, and most importantly, it helps me a lot to survive. Thus, for myself, my reactions made things better. For her, my reactions are not helpful at all, but I think they leave no psychological damage.

why do they all seem to say that? 'you're never there for me when I need you' when there are a million examples of how you are. That always confused me. I could have literally done something very selfless and I'd hear it all the time.

I hadn't talked to my BPD ex wife in over six months, maybe even a year.  And over time, I found that I resented her more and more for many of the things that happened over the years.  I wasn't perfect but I loved her and provided.  I did my best and we had a good life together raising two kids. I couldn't shake the bitterness that somehow came back.

Then yesterday, I get a call from our old local area code.  It was my ex with a new phone number, and I could tell she wasn't okay.  She had just hit a deer on the highway going 70+, her vehicle was totaled, and she had our grandson in the back seat.  She was trying to reach our daughter to come pick up the kid since it was cold out.

In that moment, my only concern was if she was okay, if our grandkid was okay.  The bitterness evaporated like it was never there to begin with.  And I was genuinely surprised how I reacted.  I do believe that time heals old wounds but I also think it can bring new ones (from old memories) in different chapters of our lives. 

That 90 second conversation changed my entire perspective though and I'm thankful for it.  Luckily everyone was okay as well.

It has to be a super difficult job because as others have said, you have to build a rapport with your patient regardless of what they're saying or doing.  And while building that trust, a lot of the "that must have been difficult for you" types of responses could sound like affirmation that everything said is factual.

I can remember being in counseling one time with my BPD daughter under very similar circumstances you described.  My kid went after me, "You're never here, you never support me or show up," and I remained silent through it all. 

Surprisingly though, the therapist cut her off mid-sentence and asked, "So you can't think of a single time recently that your dad showed up for you?"  My kid answered no.  And the therapist replied, "Then why is he sitting in my office in front of me?"  You could have heard a pin drop in the deafening silence.

If my kid didn't really, really think highly of her therapist though, that would have gone really bad.  But it had the opposite effect and made my kid think it out a little bit.  Later, when my kid went back to the "you never do anything for me..." stuff, the therapist cut her off again and pointed to me sitting in the chair.  The point was just as powerful the 2nd time.

I understand. Some members in the group were atheists and worked it out in a way that worked for them. Another member, a Buddist, didn't think it fit him well and he chose one that he felt better suited him.

An interesting aspect of ACA is that it looks at how dysfunctional families approach religion and possibly use it in an abusive way. Some members, to come to terms with that, changed religions, gave up religion, or reframed the one they were raised with. There was one member who tried different ones.

So, however someone chooses to work with a program that suits them- if it helps then that is good.

I agree with the concept of addiction as a trauma response and think that is compatible with ACA as well. If that program worked better for you- then that is great. I think my own tendency to "fix" other people's emotional distress- to jump into these conversations, is likely a childhood response to being raised with a BPD mother. At first, I wasn't even aware of doing it, it was so automatic. It makes sense as we were fearful of BPD mother's behavior when she was upset and so jumped in to try to manage it as best we could. It is possible that if you frame your tendency to get into emotional discussions with your sister as a trauma response, that may help you to lessen your participation in them.

You are 100% a worthy human, substance abuse doesn't change that. I think a main reason I didn't do it is that, I was so scared from seeing my mother's behavior- and afraid of acting like her that I stayed away from it. Being in groups with people who did use substances changed my impressions of that as I could see this from another perspective besides than of a frightened child. I understood better what they were going through and  realized I was doing the same - with co-dependent behavior, just a different way to cope. We also are all worthy humans.
.
They came from all walks of life, one was a single mother with several kids, one was medical professional who was addicted to prescription drugs. I consider some of them to be some of the strongest people I know, seeing the personal work they were doing.

While at one time,  I resented my BPD mother's susbstance use, with this new understanding, I saw her diffferently and was able to have more compassion for her. As another human, she too was 100% worthy too. We all are. But also I couldn't fix her, I could only look at how I could change for the better.

You are worthy of healing and your own self care. Glad you have been able to believe this.

Thanks for sharing your story.  I think it's good to hear about happy endings here (although I suppose her ending was not happy) because a lot of posters struggling in relationships with pwBPD sometimes have trouble seeing - or even imagining - the light at the end of the tunnel.

My BPD-ex is still alive, and while I don't wish any particular harm on her, I feel similarly about having already grieved.  I think I went through all the stages while being married, and lived through so much agony because of her that divorce felt like a weight off my shoulders; I never looked back.

Interestingly enough (in an ominous way) I remember during our marriage BPDxw would occasionally mention - quite out of the blue - that she "knew" or "was worried" that she was going to die before me, and that made her upset.  She would demand that I promise I wouldn't have another relationship after she died because that would not be "fair"... It's funny, but it also really creeped me out.  I did NOT want to grow old with her, and have her in charge of whether to "pull the plug" on me or not. It also made me think long term about trying to care for my parents once they became elderly, and how difficult she would make that because of her callous disregard for others. 

The second marriage counselor/therapist I saw with my now-XW was a situation where she had been seeing him individually, and told me he said she "was fine" and there's nothing wrong with her.  I bet she was fully honest and candid with him... 

She then told me he wanted to see us both, and I told her I was concerned about "bias" here and didn't think it was appropriate for us to see her individual therapist as a counselor.  She disagreed and told me he did too.  So we went to see him a couple times.

These sessions would quickly break down, as she would scream - and I mean scream - once I started talking.  I would come prepared with notes about the things that happened during the week that I felt were making our marriage untenable, and once I started talking she would demand I shut up or "just file for divorce already" and things like that.  The therapist would sit there quietly and didn't see a problem with this.

Also on our first visit, he mentioned he was writing a book about marriage relations and asked me to help proofread it for him.  He sent me like a 300 page PDF.  I read a bit of it, and realized it was just the typical "Learn to speak eachother's love language" BS.  I thought he was kind of an idiot.  I also refused to go back to see him after the second blow up there, because it was actually making our relations more contentious, leading to even more conflict during the week. 

A lot of therapists are just bad; either they're incompetent and/or desperate for clients and are happy to let disordered people come in there and rant, so they can take their money. 

In contrast to this, our third therapist was much more professional and started to call my ex-wife out on her subjective takes, inconsistencies, and that sort of thing, which of course enraged BPDxw, and caused her to scream at the therapist on our last visit and refuse to go back. 

So I think there's a bit of a Catch-22 when it comes to marriage counseling with a BPD spouse: Either the therapist is incompetent and allows the pwBPD to dominate the sessions, in which case they become pointless exercises of blame-shifting, or the therapist is competent and zeroes in on the behavioral disorder issue, in which case the pwBPD will panic and refuse to go back, as they realize they will not be able to control the sessions and this may result in them being held accountable for their actions. 

Hi Not Wendy,

I'm glad ACA and the 12 steps have been helpful for you. I am quite familiar with the 12 steps and have been to ALANON meetings as a young adult. The religious aspect wasn't a problem for me, in fact, I think it is part of what makes it helpful for people.

I have found Janina Fisher's model, Trauma Informed Stabilisation Treatment, to be particularly helpful (Healing the Fractured Selves of Trauma Survivors is her book explaining the model.) She identifies addiction as a trauma response and recommends that people view themselves with compassion and acceptance and understand what role the substance/self-harming behaviour has played for them as a survival tool.  It's a compassion and understanding first approach, rather than abstinence first and it has helped me move forward without having to achieve 100 percent sobriety first. For the most part, I am able to view myself as a worthy human being, despite my substance use issues, which in turn allows me to benefit from therapy and feel worthy of healing. 

I don't think you're going to get the results you hoped from this. 

For one thing, you're assuming certain predictable reactions from a person who is mentally disordered.  For another thing, pwBPD like to "play for the camera."  You think she's going to act herself knowing there's a camera on her?  You're just inviting more games.  I could imagine her alternatively trying to bait you into conflict  & get you to overreact, knowing the camera will record it.  Or acting on her best behavior in the room where she knows there's a camera, and doing the opposite elsewhere in the house.  And if she forgets the camera's there and it does catch her "in the act," expect her to angrily demand you delete the footage.

In your next post, you mention video feedback can be helpful "at least when used under the supervision of a therapist."  That's probably the operative phrase here.  You're not using it under the supervision of a therapist, you're thinking you can fix BPD with a gimmick, and that's just not likely to happen. 

I would not waste my time or money like this.

I think a camera is only really useful here to the extent it's hidden, and can catch candid scenes of  the pwBPD's negative behavior, which can then be used either to defend yourself against false accusations, or prove she's abusive (to what end, that's an entirely different discussion).

And of course, while it's legal to install a camera on your own property, there are a lot of legal gray areas there that could get you in trouble, for example, if you're recording third party guests in places they might have an expectation of privacy, even in your home (bathrooms, bedrooms, etc.).