Well....despite keeping EXTRA busy & being VERY blessed (we have another grandbaby!) I am starting to get that annual Christmas sadness; my BPD daughter never even responded to my (3rd year on (per her request) minimal contact) Thanksgiving text; I, AGAIN, wrote a Xmas card (my BPD therapist suggested a "light" message (nothing TOO mushy!) and I put one "fun" gift card (Amazon) and 1 practical gift card (grocery store); this year, I am leaving if for her, at my mother's because (so embarassing) she moved & I don't even have an address: I think it is harder this year, because I found a Christmas gift (she loves the Nutcracker) it is a Nutcracker puzzle, I bought for her, right before the "estrangement"; I keep it out EVERY year, thinking THIS will be THE year....in any case, might I ask, does anyone have a similar situation?  I will admit, it is a little easier this year, but, still makes me so sad.....I think it is just a big, fat waste of time, "we" could have together"; I am a "fixer" by nature & I, also, admit, it frustrates me, that I cannot conjure a solution

Update:  My stepson, whose wife has BPD, and had cut off all contact with my husband and I for just over a year (see previous posts for the whole story), responded to my husband's latest message to him (husband would reach out to him every few months to just say he hoped all was ok and that he loved him). 

He asked my husband if he wanted to meet with him the following weekend.  My husband of course yes but with caution (this had occurred another time and my stepson never followed through with the meet up). 

They finally met at a restaurant but from what husband told me, the conversation was very surface level.  My husband was very cautious in his approach, basically let his son lead the conversation for fear of his son becoming defensive if asked a few questions.  My husband did ask how this separation occurred (what was said, what was triggered, etc.) and all his son told him was that he "overheard" that my husband said some things about not being able to give his grandson the toy car gift.  My husband explained what he actually said. 

My stepson did not apologize for he and his wife cutting us off for over a year over something that was overheard.  My stepson then said that his wife things everyone hates her.  Like, huh?  what? Excuse me?  Are we supposed to feel bad for her after what happened this past year?  Deflection is what that felt like is what my husband told me.  My stepson then changed the subject and showed my husband pictures of our grandson - which was nice to see my husband said but also made him feel very sad because it showed how much we've missed out on over the past year and a bit.  My stepson also dropped on my husband that he and his are expecting their second child but for some reason it's a secret (???).  Not sure why.  She's past the cautious mark, all is ok and they know they are having another boy. He also mentioned that his wife no longer speaks to her father (again), nor her mother (whose home they are living in - she moved into an apartment) and that they only see his mother and step father occasionally.

My husband came away with mixed feelings. He was happy to finally see his son, whom he missed very much.  But he also felt like there was too much left unsaid and there was no apology or accountability for what occurred. 

My husband asked if his older daughter could reach out to him since he cut her off as well (for no reason at all).  He said yes, so they are at least communicating a little bit.

Me, I've stayed away - for now.  I may have too high of expectations - I feel like we are owed at least an apology from him.  I don't expect it from his wife.  Just a "I'm sorry for putting you guys through crap..."   

My husband's family, from aunts and uncles to his own mother and father to his ex wife, there has been so much toxicity, unhealthy relationships, abuse (especially emotional and verbal), that when I joined this family I was overwhelmed with it all.  Whereas from my husband's perspective, it was his normal.  The drama and chaos was normal to him.  It has taken him a long time to learn that all of that was and is not ok.  But unfortunately, some of that chaos and drama obviously rubbed off on his kids - how could it not?

But at least my husband can own and be accountable if he even thinks he has hurt someone in any way.  And he's Mr. No Conflict.  Doesn't want to start anything for fear of someone getting mad at him.  With me, he can vent and let out his feelings.  But with his kids especially...he's a push over.  And they know it. 

I just feel like this was such a big hurt.  That it shouldn't be swept under the rug like it never happened.  Maybe I'm expecting too much?  Because I can for sure tell you that my husband, although happy to see his son, is still very hurt and no longer trusts his son.  And that makes me sad and angry for my husband (and for me too).

Part of my own therapy was to work at being more authentic and less of an enabler so it is a struggle when asked to do/say things that aren't true, for the purpose of emotionally caretaking someone. We feel resentment when we do that.

When my BPD mother's family would get together, they'd publically praise each other and this would include accomplishments. While most women didn't pursue work outside the home in my mother's era, as times changed some women in her family did have careers. Although BPD mother graduated from college, I think she may have felt similarly to your mother in comparison.

At a family gathering, she wanted me to stand up and give a speech about how wonderful a mother she was. I wasn't refusing to give her a compliment to help her feel good. The problem was, it wasn't true. BPD mother didn't have much interest in doing the usual motherly things. We were afraid of her behavior. I knew I couldn't say what she wanted me to say without it sounding incincere, and I didn't want to be dishonest. I didn't want to refuse her request. I was willing to say something nice in my own words. That wasn't OK with her so she didn't have me say anything. Instead, her FOO got up and praised her, which also left me looking like the mean daughter who didn't.

If I were in your situation, knowing what I know now, and also how my other family members react, I would not say anything to them. Saying anything to them about how you feel won't change the dynamics, and it makes you a Karpman triangle target. That your sister forwarded the email to you all is classic triangulation too.

Boundaries are about our actions. In some cases, stating them is a part of it but- not all. Saying what your father wants you to say may not be authentic to you- but can you find something that is?

Understandable that it may take some searching to come up with something but I think if you do, there are examples of your mother's intelligence that aren't connected to schooling. For example, my mother was an avid reader. You could combine the compliment with the class suggestion "Mom you are a great reader, I bet you'd like a literature class". Your mother may not pursue the class suggestion (and even argue it)  but she wants to know you think she's capable.

You won't fix her feelings or change the dynamics but you would get through Christmas without being the family Grinch and stay true to yourself.

It also seems like Non-disordered people manage the issue of marriage in a healthier way: they either accept it's not happening and live with it, or they break up and go their own way to try to find someone who wants marriage, since it's so important to them. 

However, a person with BPD would stay in the relationship, but in the sort of endless "always unhappy about something" dynamic, with a lack of marriage being just the flavor du jour.

The pwBPD's complaints about their romantic partners always beg the same question: "Why are you still here then?"  They never have a good answer.  Their relationships are so bad that they are the cause of ALL the pwBPD's problems and unhappiness, but they just can't seem to end them and move on...

An acronym commonly mentioned her is BPD "FOG" ... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  Notice that one thing that marriage increases is the sense of commitment, or in BPD worldview, Obligation.

In a more normal relationship marriage does signify greater commitment, and as a consequence, obligation.  But the BPD traits impact the potential positive impacts.  Poor mental health - perceptions in particular - can emphasize the negatives and make matters worse.  Potentially, at least.

As part of learning about my family of origin dynamics, I also wanted to know more about my parents' FOOs. It's unusual that BPD would show up completely out of the blue when I began to notice it. However, her FOO would defend her so it was hard to answers. I also wondered if there was any history of abuse to her as her behavior led me to suspect it, but have no evidence of that or who might have done it.

BPD mother's dating era was more formal than it is now. The guys would pick up the girl at her home, meet the parents and then take her out on a nice date. If they were lucky, they might get a goodnight kiss but no more. BPD mother was one of the good girls.

My mother was very attractive and popular, and had her choice of who to go out with on a date. She was intelligent and had a charming social persona. So she had many opportunities.

What about my father may have predisposed him to this kind of relationship? I could find nothing about his background that could have done this. He was a genuinely nice guy, and loyal, as FD described a possible match might be. He was successful in his career. He was a good prospective suitor.

I don't know when issues showed up in their marriage. Their early years seemed fun, they went out to fun places, BPD mother could have nice things. It's possible that there was no hint of anything at the dating stage. People got married fairly quickly in their era.  As we all know though, marriage isn't all about doing fun things, kids come along, stressors like moving happens.

BPD mother was in mental health care off and on but BPD wasn't a well known disorder at the time. So when her behaviors emerged, I don't think Dad knew what was going on. I think his co-dependent and enabling behaviors evolved over time. At the heart of co-dependent behaviors is fear, and BPD mother's behaviors when she was distressed were significant enough to cause fear. He did what he thought he had to do to maintain some sense of stability.

I think at first, he did have boundaries but her reactions were extreme. It became a reinforcing pattern for both of them. He appeased her and her behaviors were less, but the appeasement reinforced her behaviors as they worked for her to have control and get her needs met. It was a difficult situation for my father- I could see that but it would also be difficult to challenge them.

One thing to keep in mind is that this pattern between your parents has been going on for decades, it's solid.

Dr. Ramani is very helpful, but so is David Demars (Demars Coaching) endless videos on BPD that really hit home, so specific to what we encounter with these people. I too have a problem with soft boundaries and forgiving people. Very hard habit to break.

P.S. I missed this sentence when I first replied, and it's a critical one.  Maybe I'm weird, but I focus way, way more on what someone does than what they say.  Not that words are unimportant--they are important.  But for me, when it came to choosing a spouse, I paid much less attention to words.  Sure, an I love you feels great, and an I'm sorry is important.  But to me, action is way more important than intention.  Actions like working hard, taking care of family, and doing things he doesn't necessarily want to do because it's the right thing to do.  Taking care of oneself, one's environment and one's family shows care and responsibility.  Treating others with kindness is key, too.  Showing up when it's important, is important.  For me, actions trump words by about ten to one.

Hi there,

With big and blended families, I think it's normal to be flexible when it comes to celebrating the holidays.  I think of holidays as a season more than one specific day.  With that spirit, it becomes easier to orchestrate celebrations with multiple family members given some flexibility in logistics--dinner at one place, presents and coffee cake the next morning at another place, take a kid out to dinner at a preferred restaurant the next night after picking them up at the airport, visiting grandma and taking her out to lunch the next day, etc.  Adult children might need to split visits between parents and/or spouses/significant others.  I think that's wonderful.

With the pwBPD in my life, I think she's not ready to celebrate holidays with extended family members, as she maintains her narrative that they are toxic.  I think the real issue is that she feels inferior, and she doesn't want to be triggered by other people's happiness, nor by parents' attention focused on siblings.  So what we have done in the past is to exchange presents just with her, sometime after the holiday--provided that she's still in the mood and decides to show up.  If not, I'll save the presents for another time.

Yet I think the original poster's quandry reflects three underlying issues:  first, the kids dislike the girlfriend and find her so toxic that they are unwilling to engage with her at all.  Look, I understand that reaction in certain contexts--kids generally don't like to see their "real" mom displaced, and for their dad to dote on someone new.  But given that the kids are adults now, and many years have passed, it's a pretty strong message that not a single child is willing to tolerate her presence for a few hours, even if it would make their dad happy.  That to me indicates that the girlfriend's behavior is egregious.

The second issue I see is the girlfriend's misguided reaction to the upcoming wedding.  I totally understand her desire for marriage--after dating for a long time, she might start insisting on commitment in the form of marriage, and if she doesn't hear a proposal soon, she might think she has been wasting her time.  It's impossible not to dwell on marriage when other people around her are getting married.  But she refuses to attend a family member's wedding because she can't stand it?  Look, part of commitment (and marriage) is supporting one's partner, even through things one doesn't necessarily enjoy.  To me it's a sign that your girlfriend isn't really willing to support you when you need it.  Sure, she'll justify her decision on feeling traumatized, or slighted, or embarrassed, or "triggered," but the reality is she's not there for you when it counts in my opinion.

The third issue I see is your hesitation about marriage.  Apparently you've been seeing your girlfriend (maybe on and off), for a long time now.  Maybe you have what you consider to be a casual relationship, and that's OK--many couples want to keep things casual, provided they are on the same page.  By now your girlfriend has shown you how she reacts to your family, and how she acts when things aren't necessarily about her, but you, your kids or others.  The best indicator of how she will act in the future is  how she's acted in the past.  My opinion is that she will not change one bit once she gets a ring on her finger.  If that gives you pause, then that's good information.  Maybe for you, things are least bad exactly as they are right now.

In a manner of speaking, your mother likely chose your father just for his qualities, whether they were codependence, loyalty, passivity or others.

For all you know, your mother may have had other opportunities to have other relationships but they didn't develop.  It may be that her comfort zone of behavior was familiar to her just as his comfort zone was familiar to him, and even if not, the passage of time solidified their patterns into what it is until today.