@Pook075

Thank you for the warm welcome and the blunt assessment. You hit the nail on the head regarding my own passivity. Here are the answers to your questions:
1. Regarding the house: Yes, I live here with her. It is my parents' secondary home. They do not live with us. It is a privilege she enjoys while simultaneously resenting the source of that privilege. The irony of hating the hand that shelters you is not lost on me.
2. Regarding the manipulation: I am beginning to see the 'pregnancy clock' for what it is: a tactical weapon to anchor me in this chaos before I can build my own fortress.
3. Regarding the 'Challenge': Your suggestion to give her exactly what she claims to want is powerful. If she hates the 'system' provided by my parents, then she must be prepared to exist outside of it. I plan to present this choice clearly: we either cultivate respect for the life we are gifted, or we find a way to fund an independent one.
4. Regarding my inaction: You are right. My silence has been a form of enabling. I’ve mistaken 'stoic endurance' for 'doing nothing.' I’ve allowed the rants to continue because I was trying to avoid the 'splash' of her disorder. But by doing so, I’ve let the house flood.
I will take your advice. I am done arguing. From now on, I am setting the parameters. If she wants a child, she needs to show me a partner who is capable of a 50/50 contribution—financially and domestically. If she wants to attack my parents, she can do so from a rental apartment she pays for herself.
The narratives are changing today. I appreciate the push to establish healthy boundaries before declaring the relationship doomed, though the 'doomed' part feels more like a mathematical certainty every day.
Thanks for the reality check.

@CC43

To address your questions directly: No, I have no desire to bring a child into an environment characterized by financial instability and emotional volatility. I recognize that the 'victim mindset' and the 'walking on eggshells' dynamic you described have become the default state of my household.
The lack of commitment to intensive therapy on her part is indeed the primary obstacle. I have come to realize that my attempt to mitigate her BPD symptoms through patience and financial support has been counter-productive, serving only to enable the disordered patterns rather than resolve them.
I am currently re-evaluating the long-term viability of this relationship. I agree that the introduction of a child under these circumstances would be an act of profound irresponsibility. I intend to prioritize my own mental clarity and the protection of my family’s assets moving forward.
Thank you for providing this necessary perspective on the 'pattern' of the disorder."

She's not updating you; she's checking that you're still there and interested so that if she gets sick of her current boyfriends - or they get sick of her - she can turn back to you.

BPD's can't be alone so they need a current partner plus plenty of people 'on the sub's bench' who are available if she finds herself alone again.  Once you respond she knows you're still interested so she doesn't reply.. until her insecurity makes her contact you again and you reply. It's a merry-go-round that you need to step off, temptimg as it is to engage.

She's been away a year and now suddenly seeks contact - big red flag. Always go by what a BPD does, not what they say.  If you're now managing your life well and recovering from the stress of a BPD partner do you want to jump back into the chaos again, knowing that it's a repetitive pattern that will never change?

Best wishes.

Hi Js, all good questions!

My BPD daughter is 26 and at times, she'd call for money every single day of the week.  And sometimes it was pure manipulation- hey dad, can I come over and cook you dinner?  We haven't spent time together for awhile.  And if I said yes, she'd ask for gas money and grocery money.  It was always a setup of some sort.

When I finally cut her off, there was some anger and resentment at first, but in time our relationship actually changed.  Like you, if she called in terrible mental shape I'd suggest an ambulance or an in-house stay somewhere, which she'd refuse as she started to panic even more.  She couldn't miss work, who would feed her pet, etc.  But I stayed consistent and I no longer get those calls, they go to her mom or sister instead.

Why?  Because she doesn't actually want the help or to make change, she wants to rant and have people feel sorry for her.  And I get that, we all have bad days and want to vent sometimes.  There's nothing wrong with that.

My point here is that I stopped being her bank and her emotional outlet for high drama, so our relationship changed because she didn't receive what she was looking for anymore.  Now our conversations are pretty darn normal, although she'll still call me at strange times for random things that didn't require a call.  Still, our relationship is good and she never asks me for money anymore.

However, I will still help her financially at times...a few hundred here or there...but only because it's not expected and I do that for my other kid as well.  Once the entitlement and demands are out of the way, I don't mind helping at all if I have the extra money.  It has to be my choice though and it can't be because of a conversation about how the entire world will end if I don't send $14 for Taco Bell right now.

I don't know if that helps you or not.  Your son calls you though because he gets the reaction he's looking for to fill his emotional needs.

For money related stuff, I'll flat out say I don't have any extra and you're going to have to start budgeting better to make ends meet.  My kid still blows through her paycheck in mere hours of getting paid (sometimes paying bills, sometimes not), as we all know you can't live that way.  I won't be mean about it, but that's my standard line of response and I don't get asked for money anymore.

I'm going to suggest your visit the tools/workshop section of the site and also check out the books Stop Walking on Eggshells and Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist. I have also found Why We Fight by the Gottman folks to be especially useful. I think these sources will lead you in the right direction.

No offense, but I think what SuperDaddy is saying goes against a lot of the collective wisdom that has been shared on this forum over the years.  That's the last I will say on the matter.

Best of luck and hope it works out.

Many people with BPD - of course not all - can quickly jump from one relationship to another.  However, that also means that subsequent relationships don't last long either.  Yet they've been known to reach out sometimes to ended relationships.

To use a cooking analogy, what do cooks do when they decide a pot has cooked on the stove?  Many will move the pot onto the back burner to simmer until the meal is ready to be served.  Could it be that maybe your ex has you, in her mind, simmering on the back stove?

On the other hand, if she just got out of jail, it may just have been an impulse once outside.  It's hard to say with so little to go on.  It would have been okay if you had decided not to reply.  The relationship was over after all.  Most of us often have to end all contact since restarting communication would likely just resume the dysfunctional cycles all over again.

Trying to figure out "why" would be unproductive as the other's mental processes are not similar as ours so as to expect common sense.  As it turned out, she didn't respond.  Likely best to Let Go.

GrayJay,

There is another thing I need to tell you that is even more important and, in my opinion, should be the reason why her symptoms have worsened after so many years.

Some people will say it was because of retirement, the lack of having important roles in life, staying at home with you too much time, etc. That may seem to make sense, but it's not what we expect. We expect life to become better after we are free from our job duties.

Instead, I believe the issue may stem from biological aging. With aging, nutrient absorption decays and the need for some nutrients increases. And regarding the 8 weeks of well-being, that may have been hormonal. I can't give you guidance about supplements in this forum, but I can recommend you search for an "orthomolecular doctor" for you and perhaps later an "orthomolecular psychiatrist" for her. They prescribe nutrients instead of medications, and they use lab tests to guide their choices. The book Nutrient Power documents the pioneering work in this kind of treatment in the US. They began testing it on felons, then women in psychiatric hospitals, and finally children with behavioral disorders.

Start by yourself, by finding and fixing your deficiencies. After a few weeks, you should feel much better and healthier, including your sleep routine, so she will probably notice that. Soon she will notice that you're taking lots of pills at lunch and dinner, and she will see the link. She will then ask you if she also needs it, and then you can slowly bring up the information that you have learned.

You can even say something such as:

"Well, since I discovered that I'm a narcissist, I figured out that I need to take care of my mood."

Hopefully, after having the info and noticing your health improvement, she will ask you if she can also follow the same path. But you'll need to be patient because those nutrients do not act as fast as medication. So at first she will be taking them and still having outbursts. But in a few weeks or months, life should start to get easier. The treatment won't cure BPD, not at all, but will reduce symptoms, similarly to what medication could try to do.

And then she might get interested in looking more into herself. At this point, you might encourage her to see some videos explaining how DBT works. It is comprehensible that she is afraid of treatment by now, because trauma exposure can go really wrong. So it's up to you to find out how you can encourage her, just like I'm doing here with my wife. Yesterday I sent her the number of 6 professionals, but apparently she didn't contact any of them.

Warning: Never talk about the nutrients when she is dysregulated, or else she might see them in a negative way and permanently reject them.

Hi again,

Wow, you have a lot going on here.  I see all sorts of issues for your daughter, from lingering traumas, potential drug relapse, self-medication with illicit substances, a deceased parent, a hoarding problem to clean up, an estate to sort out, a potential home sale, unresolved relationship issues and untreated BPD.  It's no wonder your daughter is overwhelmed!  That would be a lot to deal with, even for a healthy, mature, stable person who has supportive family and friends. 

If your daughter is not eating right nor taking care of herself, she's basically making herself sicker, and when she's not feeling well, her emotions spin even further out of control.  Let me guess, your daughter looks like a mess, lives in a mess and doesn't take care of her possessions.  I guarantee you that's a reflection of her general mental state.  I know this because I've lived through it with my BPD stepdaughter when she wasn't getting treatment for BPD.

Look, sorting through a loved one's belongings and readying a house for sale is a lot of work, both physically and emotionally, and if you add to that a hoarding problem, it's an order of magnitude worse.  Clearly you can't deal with it, and neither can your daughter.  She's only 28; she probably has little to no experience executing on a big project like that.  In addition, she's hampered by BPD, and probably the lingering effects of drug use, which can impair executive function.  (When my BPD stepdaughter was self-medicating daily with marijuana, her executive function became severely impaired, as she was scatterbrained and lacked motivation.  She couldn't even pack an overnight bag, let alone clean up and organize someone else's house and put it on the market.)

I think you say as much--the situation is really tough, you absolutely have to get help.  The question for you is, do you want to orchestrate getting the help, or is it your daughter's responsibility?  My definition of enabling is doing things for someone else that they are capable of doing for themselves.  From what you tell me, your daughter seems incapable of handling the estate, and she's likewise probably incapable of organizing other people to handle the estate on her behalf.  The executor might be loyal, kind and work in your daughter's best interests, but it sounds to me like he's just not going to do the heavy lifting either.  Maybe her dad didn't realize how much work he was bequeathing; he was a bit in denial himself.  Maybe he had intended to leave everything in order, but his sickness prevented him sorting things out before his demise.  So the reality is, your daughter is facing a mess that is totally beyond her ability to handle.  It is simply too hard, too stressful, too emotionally charged.  Her response?  Avoidance, and probably increased self-medication with illicit substances.

Since I'm a doer and a realist, I think what I might propose is get the executor/personal representative, you and your daughter in the same room (or on the same phone call) and work out a plan.  You ask the executor what decisions need to be made, what tasks need to be completed, and what paperwork needs to be completed.  If there's no checklist of things that need to be decided and completed, then you either create the checklist yourself, with timelines and responsibilities assigned, or you find somebody else to do it for you, in writing.  You get permission from both of them to hire someone to clean up the hoard, and subsequently to hire a realtor, who will tell your daughter what needs to be fixed up to sell the house.  You get an agreement to help pay for these services out of the proceeds from the estate.  I guess my point is, somebody needs to be the "project manager," and since it can't be your daughter (she's not competent right now and probably clueless about this sort of thing), then it's either you or somebody you hire, whatever you are more comfortable with.  My guess is your daughter will be grateful that somebody else lifts this burden off of her, because she just can't do it.  For me that's the litmus test--if her life depended on it, could she do it?  My guess is, probably not.  She's only 28, she probably has zero experience in this sort of thing.

My question is, are you willing to take on the task of getting the estate sorted out for your daughter?  That could be part of your "deal" with her.  You might say, I love you and want to help you deal with dad's passing.  It's upsetting and overwhelming for both of us.  I think it would be best if you let me help co-ordinate the work on the estate--let me hire the help you need to get his possessions and house sorted out.  The sooner we do that, the better off you'll be, because it costs money and effort to maintain that house.  You can keep any furnishings you want and set up a new place.  Once the house is sold, you'll have plenty of money for a new place.  There's enough money right now for you to rent your own apartment.  How does that sound?  Then you could talk about timing and your need to reclaim your house for yourself in the near future.  You establish expectations on a timeline for a move-out date.  Fair enough?

Now, I don't doubt that your daughter might fight you on this.  She'll say she doesn't want to do it, she doesn't care, you're being mean/insensitive/controlling, she'll drag her feet.  But you might have to be firm and say, Living together was just temporary for when dad was sick.  It's not good for either of us to live in this purgatory state.  If you want my help, I need your full cooperation to stay on track towards completing the estate matters and getting your own place.  If you don't want my help, I understand that, you're free to leave now and handle things on your own however you want, you're smart enough, and you have an inheritance, you can afford it.  I respect whatever decision you make.

Pook and SuperDaddy, thank you so much for your comments. Just knowing that other people can relate, and take some time to respond, is very meaningful to me.  To reply to some of your questions and comments ... I have never refused to go through her "tests," at least not yet, because even as painful (and often absurd) it feels, she is the love of my life and I want to understand what she feels.  As many others have pointed out, if a pwBPD is so inclined, no response is acceptable; all options lead to escalation. The least escalation happens when I at least try to cooperate with her and she gets her feelings out.  But it's getting worse and worse and she now seems, when dysregulated, to consider that marrying me 30+ years ago was a huge mistake because in her mind, I controlled her, abused her, and snuffed the joy of life out of her. She has a long list of my abuses, and it gets longer and longer - things she never mentioned when they were happening.  As long as I don't escalate, her anger and contempt is still strong and can last for 1-3 days. It feels like the world, and our marriage, is ending. My stress is extreme, I sleep very poorly, my blood pressure is high, and I feel pressure in my chest and throat.

If I practice SET, she completely ignores the "T" - truth, because in her mind what I'm saying is not true.  She wants everything to be my fault, and I think she truly believes this. She won't even take responsibility for not making her needs known at the time and stating any objections.  This has all come out since retirement.
 
If I do as many advise, calmly tell her I think it's too heated and I need some space, then try to walk away she goes into a blinding rage.  And if I JADE, she doesn't hear any of it, and we both end up raising our voices and it quickly spirals out of control.

I am codependent, no doubt about it, and I have a fear of abandonment and don't want to live alone (I'm almost 70). I am trying hard to practice mindfulness, meditation, rhythmic breathing, radical acceptance, and distress tolerance techniques, but it is so incredibly hard and painful - the hardest thing I've ever done.  It's easy to say that I should move out and seek peace on my own, but it is extraordinarily difficult. We have a large house in a stagnant housing market and way too many possessions.  It would take a couple of years to unwind all that, maybe more.
We do have many good days, and last fall set a record of almost 8 weeks without conflict. It was wonderful, and I was reminded of how suited we are for each other, when there's no BPD behavior involved. I'm not sure why she was in better spirits then. We've had so many good years together, at least in my opinion, and I don't want to give that up. I tend to be an optimist and quickly forgive her when she's her normal, better self. But I don't know what to do on a day-to-day basis.  She has reached out to a therapist but gotten no reply.
Her current position is that she is a Heyoka empath whom everyone is jealous of, and she is shedding many relationships because they are energy vampires.  I'm one of the last ones left to discard.  We have two adult children, but we keep them out of the extent of our conflict.  They would be shocked if they knew.
SuperDaddy, thank you for your concern and your detailed reply.  I look forward to hearing more from you.  I may try just fully owning the narcissist label even though my therapist says I'm average or below average on narcissism.  I hate to validate a false characterization, but if it calms her down it may be worth it.  I know who I am. (In your examples of the gay and the idiot, that was actually true, but it's not true that I have NPD.) But I'm willing to try.
She just has no forgiveness, not for anything in her childhood or anything she claims I've done.

Thanks for listening, and I look forward to more comments!

Hi CC43 ,

It was in my backlog to reply to your long post. I had to take my time because it made me reflect about many things.

I was a very compassionate spouse, but I'm not anymore. Over the first half of our relationship, I was more of a grey rock, but then as I felt cornered, I began to become more combative and less helpful. Because I figured out that absorbing all of it quietly was slowly wearing me out. And there is a scientific explanation for this. So I don't think the grey rock method is always the best.

In regard to her past relationships, yes, I am quite sure she provoked them and therefore got the worst from them, but also she had really made bad choices, at least on the first two of them. Because the kind of aggression that she reports is a bit off. And when I first met her, she had scars on her back, which she said were caused by her ex whipping her with a belt.

I wouldn't say people with BPD feel traumatized all the time, because they can have very joyful moments, and that's when they pull us in (love bombing), but they connect to their traumas very easily. It's similar for those with severe CPTSD, but in the case of BPD, the reaction is quite extreme, and they create rigid thoughts.

Standing up to a bully and asking them to stop would only work if the bully was only wanting to have fun, not to do harm. But she wants to do harm. And the grey rock isn't usable here either because she is highly attached, so she will never see me as grey. She will see me as a "red rock" and become extremely angry when I ignore her.

I think the grey rock can be useful if you are completely detached from the relationship. I mean sleeping in separate beds and not talking to the pwBPD at all, or only what's ultimately necessary, without eye contact. I did that with my first wife, who had BPD traits, and things were calm for a while, but only until she noticed I was contacting other women; then she attacked me. With my second wife, I also tried being like that, but she would attack me for all the little things that she wanted. Once I came home and got a kick in my balls without knowing why. It was because she did not find the remote control of the TV.

In the case of my current wife's physical abuse, it's not too bad. But unfortunately here in my country, men don't have rights against women. She would have to stab or leave a big bruise on me before I could do something about it, and yet if she makes any false claim, her case will be handled 10x faster than mine. If a man calls the police, chances are that he will end up being put in handcuffs and taken because the woman will lie to the police, and they will have to take her complaint instead of his complaint.

Last year, I had told her that I would have to reciprocate her verbal aggressions, and then I did that for a while, but I didn't like the results. Her verbal aggressions gradually got worse.

So now I do something different. I'm taking advantage of her heightened anxiety to protect myself. When she attacks me, I pretend that I'm having a hard time controlling my anger as well, and I try to make her think that I'm dangerous. So I do theatrical acts that make her back off. As soon as her anxiety subsides, I pretend to have cooled off as well. Then she may insist on attacking me again, and the cycle repeats, but there is a moment at which she takes a walk and cools off. The point is that in this interaction she will become much more stressed than me. Because I don't actually get angry. So over time that stress of hers should, hopefully, discourage her attacks.

Regarding the verbal aggressions, I don't have a solution yet.

I’ve been married for 15 years and I am very sure my spouse has BPD. He doesn’t seem very receptive to therapy but things are getting worse. He never seems happy anymore and he is on meds for depression and he got mood stabilizers in the last year. But honestly he seems worse since the mood stabilizers. I work and do most of the stuff round the house. I tried to get him into volunteering at a military museum as he loves history but he went once and had a panic attack and came home. I feel like I am losing myself in his pain and while I am a generally happy person it is getting harder. I recently got the book Stop walking on eggshells and I am going to start reading that. I really need to work on having any sort of boundaries. It doesn’t help that I am naturally a momma bear and lean towards helping and taking care of people. I just want our lives to be better and to see him happy again. it breaks my heart seeing him suffering. Hoping to find some community, support and ideas here