Don't argue or try to fix anything.  I know they're asking, but their words are coming from a disordered mind in crisis.  All they really want is to calm down and they don't know how.  Help them calm down and save the real talk for later.

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Yes, and I'll add that in some cases (my situation for sure), it's extremely rare that you can ever have any real talk.

Methuen- when I read your posts, I could have written the same words.

My situation also involved my father's passing. I was not as aware of BPD dynamics. I was "all in" at first with helping when he got ill. However, each visit involved BPD mother's escalated behavior, verbal and emotional abuse. No matter what I did- it wasn't enough as far as she was concerned. Yet, my own children were younger at the time, I had to arrange child care for them to stay with my parents. What about them? I couldn't just leave. I don't recall them showing any concern about me or my own responsibilities. I didn't expect Dad to- he was ill, but BPD mother didn't.

What I didn't realize was how much my father was aligned with my mother. Whatever she felt, he aligned with. I had to have boundaries with this situation, that angered her, he aligned with her. So did my mother's FOO and some of her family friends.

Like Methuen, I kept in contact with BPD mother and assisted- but I also don't live close to her and so wasn't as involved with the hands on care. Still, in her later years, it involved daily contact by phone- with her, her caregivers, and medical providers, and visits. Why I did it- was due to my own choices- as explained before. I didn't have expectations of her, but I think there was a smidgen of hope there.

I also think that there was some wishful thinking "maybe I can do this right" this time, as if some kind of parental approval was possible still. What was interesting about this experience is that- it actually helped to realized that wasn't attainable with her. Every visit went the same way- I would spend the time doing things for her- she'd find something I did or didn't do that she didn't like.

I also wished things were different for my involvement. I saw my friends helping their elderly parents and even if it was challenging a times for them- there was a relationship there- a closeness, but our situation was different.  Even though it was a difficult situation, I am glad that I stayed involved, as I  know how it went rather than to wonder. Each situation is different and so one makes the best decision we can with the situation we have.

Stop right there mid-thought, because you HAVE TO see this.

When someone is dysrtegulated, they don't want advice.  They don't want help.  They want to stop feeling dysregulated.

No matter what the scenario is, no matter what they did, your advice will always be wrong in that moment because they're not thinking clearly.  Their mind is in a complete panic and they're incapable of accepting sound advice in that moment, so whatever you say about the "actual problem" is going to miss the mark.

Again, the real problem is that they're dysregulated...that's always the real problem 100% of the time.  They will never say that's the problem because that's part of the illness, if they knew how to just calm down then they would.  The only way they know how to get those emotions out is talking and inevitably being abusive if they don't get what they want.

Think about a horror movie, the star is running from a monster of some sort and they make terrible desicions.  We think, that's so dumb!  Don't hide in the shed...keep running!  Get to the car and just drive away!  But they're acting out as a person in crisis, which means they're not thinking logically.  They're making split-second decisions instead of using reason.

BPD is exactly the same way.  Everything they say while they're dysregulated is garbage...it's just meaningless words meant to help stablize their emotions.  But it doesn't, it often makes things worse.  So when you try to help using reason, you're missing the entire point.  They're in a horror movie trying to survive and you're in the coffee shop with the cast of Friends.  It's two completely different worlds.

Don't argue or try to fix anything.  I know they're asking, but their words are coming from a disordered mind in crisis.  All they really want is to calm down and they don't know how.  Help them calm down and save the real talk for later.

I just started reading this, and the part about traits of borderlines in the beginning is exactly how they’re handling their mental health issues.  I never realized the way it impacts their thinking away from relationships as well. 

Inner Peace, I don't know how I missed this the first time I read it, but it jumped out at me today...because I relate...especially to "how my sisters will lash out at me and blame me for hurting her".  Is this something that causes you worry/stress/anxiety?  That is what my mother did to me my whole life - lash out at me and blame me - regardless of all the caretaking I did and loving things I did for her.  I can't remember what the story was that I shared with my therapist at one session, but she jumped on it and challenged me and said "That's your I'm in trouble part"! Truth is, I was always in "trouble" with mom over some trite thing or imagined reason, and being "in trouble" terrified me because she would tell me what a terrible person I was and I didn't want my mom (or anyone else) to think that.  I would do anything she wanted to fix it and please her. If she told me to jump, I would ask how high.  Until I burned out and couldn't be her fixer anymore.  Burnout is like that.

So a couple of questions before you let "guilt" rather than rational thought guide you into a decision one way or another ...
1) What evidence is there that your mom is rehabilitated enough have a different outcome in the relationship this time?
2) Is thinking the relationship could be repaired realistic, or is it magical thinking?
3) Is guilt the wisest tool to let you make this decision?  If re-establishing contact backfires, what could go wrong?
4) What are your core values about this? My core value was that I wanted a relationship with my mother, and I felt a duty as daughter to be present to help meet her needs as she aged.  That was a core value.  But mom was toxic.  She was emotionally abusive.  Mean, cruel and raging.  Another core value was that I  not be a doormat and allow myself to be hurt by anyone.   Abuse is not ok, and I don't believe abusers should be given a free pass without consequence.  So what do we do when two core values are in conflict with each other?  Is this question something that fits?

"I invited my mom to a therapy session but afterwards she told me we just need to put the past behind us". I can't count the number of times my mom used these words.  It's because they don't have any insight, and no ability (i.e. no neural pathways in the brain) to reflect on their own behavior. They lack empathy. And while I don't know this, I doubt very much that they feel "guilt". 

In the last few years, I did have contact with mom, but I had so many boundaries to protect myself it was exhausting. It was awful. I feel like she ruined me, and took away my ability to feel joy again.  A therapist would say I can't give her that power.  My mom passed away last January at age 89 (almost 90).  What I can say is that while the daily drama is gone, the trauma of her lives on in my body.  But when she died, I can tell you she felt no guilt. 

So, maybe something for you to work on is how to cope with the feelings (and activated nervous system) when your sister lashes out at you?

If you re-engage with your mom, it should be because it's what you want to do for your own reasons.  Not because of what your sister says about you, or how she makes you feel.  Easy to say.  Hard to do.  Does that make sense?  Your thoughts?

I get where you're coming from and have seen a similar issue in my extended family.  My disordered uNPD ex-brother-in-law seems to think he's an amazing father.  Yet he's chronically delinquent on child support.  He has missed more than half of his parenting time, without providing notice or any valid excuse--he's simply a no-show.  It's not as if he's busy earning a living, because he's long-term unemployed, by choice.  By not showing up for parenting time, it's as if he's saying to his kids that his time is more important than theirs, and he doesn't really want to see them.  Anyway, recently, my triplet nieces and nephew turned thirteen.  My ex-BIL made a huge deal about getting them birthday presents, and he asked each of them what they wanted.  But he neglected to send any of the gifts (let alone deliver them himself) by the date of their birthday.  When the gifts arrived by mail a couple of weeks late, he sent a message congratulating them on their birthday, but he got their age wrong (he thought they were turning twelve).  And even though the kids had sent him links online to the things they wanted, he ordered them something similar, but invariably a cheaper version.  One niece wanted a bike.  Well, her dad ordered her a bike, but it was sized for a a five-year-old.  My nephew wanted a life vest for water sports.  His uNPD dad got him one, but sized men's XXXL (since it was half price or something), and it doesn't fit my 120 lb nephew.  Then as a supposed joke(?), my ex-BIL sent his 13-year-old son a patch with the word "penis" spelled out in Greek letters, as if he's supposed to sew the patch onto his Boy Scouts uniform or something.  Anyway, my point is, though the kids received gifts, they are totally inappropriate, and possibly even passive-aggressively MEAN.  Then dad gets upset if the kids don't gush, send prolific thanks, and call their dad the most wonderful dad in the world.  Instead, the kids feel misunderstood, unloved, torn.  I mean, can you imagine a 13-year-old young woman trying to ride the teeny bike her dad got her?  Meanwhile, their mom is livid, because she has to deal with their disappointment, explain once again that their dad loves them, but he doesn't know how to show it, while having to figure out how to donate the gifts or throw them right in the trash.  On top of that, she's fuming because, if given the choice, the kids would skip the gifts entirely and just take the child support, which would mean they could afford their activities, like Boy Scouts trips, and music and ballet lessons over summer vacation.

As you've probably experienced, this sort of thing isn't a one-time mistake of poor judgment, but a recurring pattern of passive-aggressive control and back-handed insults disguised as "generosity."  I think you're right, your Mom doesn't know you at all.  What she's trying to do is convince herself that she's a "good" mom, while looking for "fake" confirmation from you in the form of effusive thanks and praise; in the absence of that, it will be your fault you're an unappreciative daughter.  Does that sound about right?

Alas, I doubt your mom will ever change, not at this late stage in the game.  I know it hurts not to have a close and loving relationship with your own mom.  But in a way, I imagine it makes you cherish the close relationships you do have in your life today, perhaps even more than ever.  I hope you found a wonderful husband who does love you, get you, support you and appreciate you.  And you can break the cycle by loving your kids in the way you wish your mom loved you.  My guess is that your kids think they have a great mom, and that's everything, isn't it?

All my best to you.

My younger sister (24F) has been struggling with her mental health for almost 8+ years now. She was diagnosed with chronic depression, then BPD, and then CPTSD. She has been a victim of bullying in school and sexual abuse in the past. She has had a string of failed relationships which have always brought out the worst. She has also had multiples instances of self-harm and at least 3 suicide attempts. She's been in therapy and on medication ever since her diagnosis 6-7 years ago. She wants to feel better but is also tired of this whole "healing process", this state has become the normal for her. Therapy and medication, she tries to stick to it as much as she can, but does not focus on lifestyle changes to accompany it.

My parents and I try to be as supportive as possible, and it has led to us walking around eggshells around her and trying to give her everything she wants because we are scared she will resort to self-harm if we deny. She talks about wanting to die a lot, especially when stressed and it has become a way of life for her. And a major point of fear and decision-making basis for us.

Both of us grew up in a household where we were expected to excel academically and in life. I somehow managed to cope with things on my own, despite my own troubles and trauma, never got therapy and have built a support system comprised of my partner, friends and drowning myself in work.

She lives in another city for college and she had been getting better after undergoing rounds of rTMS treatment. She does well in college, but over time she has lost touch with all other activities in life like her hobbies or fitness goals, she binge watches the same shows over and over again, and "bedrots" a lot. It's hard to get her to change these patterns. There's also a lot of self-loathing, and anxiety about the future and not wanting to do anything. She is also very impatient and feels pathetic a lot.

Every time she is romantically involved with someone, she loses sight of everything else in her life and her whole life revolves around this other person. She doesn't contact us until things have gone bad and she's in a terrible place and we urge her to talk. She recently went through a failed situationship with a friend/classmate she spends a lot of time with. He is emotionally mature and has been supportive and understanding since he carries some guilt about her being hurt because of him not wanting to continue the situationship. This affected her very badly. I left my job and moved cities to be with her and help get her back in a functional state. She got the rTMS treatment and was doing well for sometime. I moved back home after that and have been working here ever since. She's at home for her summer break right now.

When she came home for summer break this time, she brought him along since they had decided to do their internship together at an org in my hometown. He's also living with us (which i thought was a bad idea but we couldn't do anything about this since she had already decided) (I did express concern to her and she said everything is fine between them now). She and him are mostly fine and i thought things were okay, but i could see her mood deteriorating over the past few weeks. Not wanting to go to work, wanting to quit the job, wanting to be left alone and not eating or taking meds on time, and most importantly wanting to go back to her city.
Things were still okay until recently my grandpa fell ill and the house has been chaotic due to hospital runs, too many people and other logistics. My parents are looking after grandpa at the hospital while I juggle work, home logistics and my dementic grandma.

Sis has not been helping out with the grandpa situation much and i said that's ok but i asked her to take care of herself and wait for a few days until the day to go back comes (which is about 4 days later). But she kept insisting about wanting to go.
Two nights ago when my parents were at the hospital she took a bunch of pills after an argument with him and we had a very difficult time managing everything. My dad (he's a doc) had to rush back and we managed. It was not too much over the limit so nothing disastrous happened. She's done a round of therapy and an online meet with her psych and is on new medication and I'm overseeing it, and keeping a close eye on her.

I am super worried about the next few days until she goes and how she's going to handle things after going back with all that medication on her hands. She and the guy have planned to take a break and not see each other for sometime after they return. She keeps telling me that she will feel much better after going back where she will have her space and set up a routine and once college starts again everything will be okay. But i know about her obsessive tendencies and idk how things are going to go between them. She gets super affected by these things and i cant stop thinking about it and being hyper-vigilant. I'm not in a state to quit my job again and go be with her in another city again. I am also supposed to submit my post-grad thesis this week and i'm unable to get any work done because my mind is occupied by these thoughts and I am dreading everything.

For the longest time, I also feel terrible for my parents and also for myself because we have done everything we can, and i will keep trying but sometimes i wonder how much longer will this go on, especially when she does not seem to notice or value the efforts we put in for her. There is no regard for us and she always seems to be annoyed by us and shutting us off, until she needs money or help of some kind. I think she wants to care but she's too occupied with her own state to think about anyone else or what any of us are going through.

I have not been able to do anything, but reading on this forum has been helpful, so i am posting here now to get some help.

How do i go about this? How do i help her? How do i not worry so much? How do i make this situation better? Anything helps at this point.

Hi!  I am so sorry to read your situation; quick version, my, now 26 y/o daughter was diagnosed with BPD about 4 years ago, I joined a Support Group and read all of the recommended books; my daughter initially (I have since learned there is a favorite person (that was me) had me sleep over sometimes, sit with her when she cleaned, hide her knives, monitor her pills, etc. after 18 months of this, out of NOWHERE she said I was "enabling" her (I really was just doing what she was asking (and it was hard!  I work full time) and said she "needed space" (to the point, she said if I called her she would get a restraining order), she cut off ties with her father, sister & young nieces; for awhile, she would text if she needed something (money, help with our health insurance), now, I text her for holidays and bdays, etc. and she does not respond; I still leave holiday/bday gifts at my mother's house for her (she seems to be the new favorite person); I probably sound "non-chalant" about this....it is been many years, so, I am just "numb" to it; about 6 months ago, I found a therapist who specializes in "parents of young adults with BPD" this has been a lifesaver, as I am starting to "allow" myself to feel "joy" (I feel guilty!  who is "happy" when their child does not speak to them! I wish you well and thank you for the statistics!

Can you give us an update on you and your family?  So sorry we didn't promptly respond sooner to this post.  Here are a couple thoughts on these issues.

Suicide threats... No one expects you to discern the difference between suicidal ideation versus manipulative venting.  Leave that to the professionals, including the emergency responders.  However, be aware that if help is summoned, many who made such threats will Deny having done that, even claiming it was you.  So, knowing that likely Denial, best to have witnesses or a recording or a text/email.

Endless fighting or bickering... This is harder to address since it's a dysfunctional relationship dynamic established over years.  Many approaches to this are found on our Tools & Skills Workshops board.  Among that long list there are two notable ones:

• How we communicate... JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) fails when the other is in an argumentative mood or dissociated state.  Those are our logical approaches but they boomerang when they either can't or won't listen.  It's almost as though logic triggers them even more.  The link above mentions SET, DEARMAN and BIFF, strategies to foster calmness rather than triggering.
• How to improve our Boundaries... When the other starts ranting and raging, in most cases better to let them alone to hopefully reset themselves.  As the cartoons humorously say, "Exit stage left."  Can you go with the children to another room?  Can you go to the supermarket, park, neighbors or take a walk, taking the children with you, and return once the other has calmed a bit?

Something helpful my therapist told me is to think about your values and your goals.  You can't get the BPD person to change, but you can choose what you do based on your values and on what you hope will be the outcome.  That's a realistic outcome of course (not the fantasy outcomes of the BPD person changing that I've had so many of ) and you can't be sure under any circumstances what the outcome will be. But you can ask yourself whether what you're considering doing aligns with what you want.