Hi Annie,

I'm sorry about the complicated family situation and having to deal with a grave illness.  That creates a lot of sadness as well as stress.

From the sound of it, your sister and niece have been living together with their hoard for quite some time, do I have that right?  Though it's probably not the healthiest way to live, and you would never choose to live like that, they have.  What seems like chaos and squalor to you is "normal" to them.  In a strange way, having things strewn about everywhere might feel comforting to them.  They might have dreams about making collections, completing projects someday, pursiung hobbies, repurposing items, selling items for a profit--they find joy in cultivating these fantasies.  Maybe they're shopaholics, spending money for pleasure and self-soothing.  Maybe they promise to clean up, but they're lazy and don't want or particularly need to take care of their environment, so they don't.  Maybe they're depressed and are so overwhelmed by the prospect of cleaning up that they avoid it entirely.  And maybe they're ashamed, because they spent money to acquire all their stuff, and parting with any of it would represent a monetary and emotional loss.  Maybe they have sentimental attachments items (even if the items seem like trash to you), as they are reminders of happy times.  And maybe they just don't like to bend over, because a little effort and discomfort feels to them ten times worse than it really is.  What I'm trying to say is that cleaning up isn't just a physical challenge, it's a mental one as well.  You're probably not equipped to deal with all the emotional baggage attached to the hoard.  So my question to you is, why take it upon yourself to try to clean it up, especially when they'll fight you every step of the way?  I'd say, you need to pick your battles.  Cleaning up a hoard which probably took years to generate is a gigantic battle.  If you feel you must clean up, then try for a skirmish, maybe just one corner of the house (the tub, kitchen sink, your sister's bed)?

I think you did the right thing to stay in a hotel.  Your excuse could be that you don't want to impose, especially when your sister is ill.  That way, you don't have to make an issue of tip-toeing around a hoard.

I understand you want to help your sister when she's sick.  Maybe you ask her how she'd like you to help?  Maybe you just drive her to and from chemo/radiation visits, and stay with her in the hospital during them?

As for your niece, she's 43.  My guess is that she's living with her mom, not because your mom is ill and needs help, but because your niece isn't able to support herself independently, correct?   Though your niece might be moody, entitled and dissatisfied with her life, blaming the world for all her problems, her life is actually working for her right now.  My guess is that your niece barely works, spends a lot of time in her room in front of screens and might self-medicate with illicit substances.  You might worry about what will happen when her mom isn't around anymore to take care of her, do I have that right?  I guess my advice is, your niece is an adult, she's responsible for herself, not you, and not her mom.  The reason she hasn't gotten therapy yet is because her mom is over-functioning for her daughter and enabling her.  Since your niece is fine with her life the way it is now, she doesn't see the need to make any changes.  The only way she will decide to make changes is when she has absolutely no other choice.

My advice?  You don't try to clean up the hoard.  You don't try to convince your niece to get therapy.  You don't have a "serious talk" with your niece unless she asks you for your advice.  Trust me, if your niece is screaming at you when you're trying to help, she is not amenable to hearing anything you have to say.  When she's screaming, her emotions have taken over, and she can't think logically anyway.  All she sees is somebody trying to confiscate HER belongings, wreck HER home and boss HER around.   So don't.

In the meantime, you take care of yourself.  A sickness in the family is really stressful.  I went through that a couple of years ago, and I think the added stress, on top of living with someone with BPD, really got to me.  I suffered from physical ailments that I had never experienced before (chronic rashes, digestive issues, insomnia), and I think they were a physical manifestation of all the stress.  The physical discomfort and lack of sleep made me more irritable for sure.  In my experience, when life gets tough, that's when I double down on healthy habits:  eating right, drinking lots of water, getting regular exercise, and trying to get sleep, even if it's elusive.  The more people are needy and require my attention, the more I have to carve out time for self-care.  I would schedule time for self-care in my calendar and give it the same priority as caring for other people.

I'll wrap up with some reflections about the TV show Hoarders, which I watched a few years ago, maybe two or three episodes.  What I recall is that the show was formulaic.  It would start out interviewing caring family members, who have typically tried to help their horder clean up their home, but the hoard always returns, and has gotten worse.  The family members can barely conceal their disappointment that their work was wasted.  Nevertheless, they fear for the health and safety of their loved one with the hoard.  And yet, the only time the hoarder will accept professional help is when all other options have been exhausted.  The hoarder has to face some combination of eviction, dire health scares, total financial ruin and/or total estrangement from family, in order to make the decision to get help to clean up.  My takeaway is, I think an "intervention" doesn't work as much as exhaustion of all other options.  In other words, the hoarder has to hit bottom, and in the process decide that asking for help is the only remaining option.  Even so, when professional help arrives, the process of cleaning up is arduous and emotionally painful, for everyone involved!

I think the same sort of thing happens with BPD.  Your niece has to hit bottom, and she has to decide for herself to get professional help to turn her life around.  No amount of prodding or advising on your part will make any difference, until she's "ready" to make some changes.  Maybe her mom's illness might be a trigger.  It's impossible to know for sure.

All my best to you and your family.

Just let my ubpd sib know that I need some time and space.  Backlash of course and plenty of it but I'm doing okay.  I know temporary separations aren't always the best idea but this made sense for me now. If they do continue to contact me, I will block.

Hello and welcome to the family!  The dynamic sounds very stressful but at least they live several hours away and you don't have to deal with this daily.  Or are you planning on staying longer due to your sister's sickness?

Also, what would your "more serious talk" look like?  Talk that out a little bit so we can better understand your goals in that conversation.

With mental illness, your niece will only get help once she realizes that she needs it on her own.  Nobody can force her or convince her of anything, not even professionals.  She has to actually want to change and heal before signifigant progress can be made.

While it would be great to get your sister's house cleaned out and organized, it might not be possible.  And that's okay.  Do what you can, don't argue about any of it, and they'll decide what and how to maintain the home.

I'm so sorry about your sister as well, I will say a prayer for her now.

My sister let it slip that while hospitalized,  she'd been diagnosed with BPD. She later denied that she said it, but I have witnesses. Later, her 4th ex-husband and her middle daughter saw her medical records and said that was probably the mildest of what she was diagnosed with.  It's probably  why he got full custody of their then 8 year old daughter.  Now, that youngest daughter has access to the psychiatric records my sister somehow thought would help her get to live with that daughter.  No, it just made sure that my niece knows she's making the best decision to keep her mother at arm's length. 

Hi kind of Alone,

Who wouldnt begin to feel numb? I also began to feel numb after my udd,s endless dramas. I would literally just about get over one drama and be hopeful that udd had learnt from it and things had calmed down only to discover another with the expectation of me coming to the rescue everytime after previously being kept in the dark.
 
My lack of enthusiasm in rescuing her from all these dramas of course was interpreted by udd that I didnt care and that I had never cared and not that I was simply burnt out!!!

I think you did the right thing and that your udd is right where she needs to be right now and what you  have to consider now while you have some breathing space is how YOU move forward. YOUR health and wellbeing matters and it is time to focus on yourself.

You have helped your udd over and over again with no signs of change and as an adult it is time for her to take responsibility for her actions and learn from the consequences of her behaviour. Hopefully the reality of currently being where she is will a time of reflection for her and a turning point into the starting point for her to get her own life together.

I gradually went very low contact with my mother with BPD and other disordered family members. It only worked because I was ready to initiate lower contact after many years of therapy and working continuously on being a separate person in my own right, no longer so enmeshed in the toxic family dynamics.

This is my own experience with LC/NC and a family member. In some cases, it is necessary- and I don't judge anyone for doing it if it is the right thing for them. In my own experience though- it's not a solution when that family member is also connected closely to other family members and you still want contact with the other family- because the person you wish to avoid will be a part of that unit.

It also is abrupt, and sometimes this can cause a reaction from the pwBPD, who can also solicit other family members to "their side". Rarely in a family is the issue with just one person. Other members may be rescuers/enablers.

My only and short failed consideration of NC with my BPD mother was in college when a counselor suggested it- for good reason- issues were making it hard for me to focus on my studies and affecting me academically and emotionally. BPD was not really well known at the time. I'm sure that hearing about my mother's behavior was significant enough for the counselor to suggest it.

I tried but still wanted contact with my father, and they were a pair If I wanted contact with him it would have to include her.

It was many years later that I learned about BPD and the family dynamics. In your situation, going NC with your sister is likely to include other family members acting as rescuers, including possibly your parents. You don't want to cut contact with your entire family.

LC for me was not just less frequency of contact but the content of the contact. It meant not sharing personal or emotional information, avoiding circular and emotional discussions. I think a good approach is to not make a statement or anouncement, but a "slow fade" to both frequency and content of communications. She might call, and you can be busy. Or she starts with emotional content or accusation and you say "I need to go, someone is at the door, or you have an appointment, or whatever non emotional reason to get off the phone. You don't call as often or not at all.

One of my guides for content is- if it were on the evening news, would you care? So I might say "child's soccer team won today" "I saw this great movie" rather than to have a personal emotional topic. If she asks personal info- then say "I don't know or it's not important" or some deflection, or get off the phone. There still is contact, but the content is less emotional, less reactive, less drama. 

I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. What a combination of circumstances!  One piece of advice I have is to decide what you have to get involved with and what you don’t. What are he implications for you or your sister, for example, if those bottles of nail polish are there? (I’m not saying there aren’t but just want to point out that you should ask yourself if there are.  Pwbpd generally dont change so it’s not worth addressing things that affect only her.

Folks,

How have you moved from lots of contact to low contact or low contact to no contact?

Thanks!

Hi. Has anybody ever initiated a temporary period of separation from pwbpd to give you time to recover your emotional balance? How did that affect lay out?  Thank you!