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 81 
 on: October 26, 2026, 09:13:37 AM  
Started by Randi Kreger - Last post by CC43
Hi there,

I have a diagnosed BPD and an undiagnosed NPD in my life, and I have been surprised at how their  behaviors seem to overlap:  the delusional, extreme beliefs, the incessant need for attention, the entitlement, the demandingness, the manipulations, the lack of empathy for others, the volatile relationships, the million excuses for breaking promises, blaming others for everything and twisting facts to justify hurting others.  I'd say that, on top of all that, is the ability to "pull themselves together" when they want to, as well as their apparent willingness to hurt people close to them.

I'll note that I understand that many pwNPD can appear to lead functional lives, but the pwuNPD in my family has a dysfuntional lifestyle.  In fact, both the pwBPD and pwNPD rely on others to over-function for them in life.

Nevertheless, I see two main differences in them.  The first is the underlying mindset.  I think the pwBPD is beset by overwhelmingly negative thinking.  Her default assumption is that she's incapable, unloveable, messed up, unworthy, ugly.  She's insecure and plagued by fear, worry, anxiety and shame.  She excoriates herself over every little thing.  Since that's too disturbing to live with every day, she flipts the script and focuses outside herself, convincing herself that she's mistreated, aggrieved, downtrodden, unlucky, abused by the world.  That leads to projection of her ill thoughts onto others, and to blaming others for messing up her life.  The negative mindset morphs into a victim mindset, which keeps her stuck in a rut, because she refuses to take responsibility for her life and behavior.  Instead, she lashes out (or retreats in avoidance) as she blames others for all her problems.  She believes she's justified in hurting others, in a misguided attempt to let them know the extent of her pain and/or to punish them for perceived wrongs.

In contrast, I think the NPD is beset by a "delusional," overly positive view of himself.  He thinks he's special, important, privileged, unique.  He is a spotlight hog and thinks that other people should not only praise him, but serve him like a king.  He is demanding of others in terms of following rules, and yet he is exempt from any rules because of his special, exceptional status.  His interests and needs always come first, and he doesn't consider other people's feelings, not even those of his own children.  He's always the best, always right, always the most important.  When he's getting attention, admiration and service, he can be charming and engaging.  But when the attention fades, he can turn in an instant and be cruel.  Yet his retributions seem more calculating than those of pwBPD, who are ruled by emotions.  I think the pwNPD is more controlled--seemingly intellectual and calculating--when plotting retribution.  It's as if he enjoys seeing others suffer because of their insubordination and inferiority.

And that leads to a second critical difference.  I think the pwBPD might be capable of admitting that her life has become unbearable, and that she needs some therapeutic help.  She might feel so miserable and desperate, that she'll seek out therapy and actually give it a chance, provided that she has no other option but to work on herself.  If she's determined, she has a chance of turning her life around with therapy.  But I suspect the pwNPD would never admit to any need for therapy.  I think he believes that he's perfect, that therapists are stupid, and that his brain and body are special anyway, immune to conventional treatments.

As an aside, I think it has helped me to think of my pwBPD as someone who is emotionally handicapped.  I've estimated that her emotional "age" is around 70% of her chronological age.  So at 21, she was operating like a 15 year old at best.  Think teenage relationship crises, over-reaction to minor setbacks, impulsivity, procrastination, difficulty with accountability, reliance on parents to manage her life, peer group obsession.  As she has gotten older, I think she has matured somewhat, but in her late 20s, she's still somewhat "behind."  She seems completely overwhelmed by a relatively easy, entry-level job (basically, office reception with scheduling duties).  She can't get along with her roommates for very long.  She's flaky and bails on commitments.  She holds grudges forever and can't apologize.  She takes everything too personally, such as feedback from her boss.  She still expects other adults to over-function for her, though she has made some progress here.  Anyway, my observation is that while pwBPD seem to be emotionally "immature," I don't think the analogy works very well with NPD.  In other words, I've observed that pwBPD can grow/mature/change, whereas NPD, not so much.

Just my two cents based on anecdotal evidence.

 82 
 on: October 26, 2026, 09:07:53 AM  
Started by BPDpartner15 - Last post by Pook075
Unfortunately she has decided to end the relationship. She believes she has too much to work on and heal on her own. 

We're still friends and I wish her the best and hope she can heal. I love and admire her and sadly she thinks it's just not the right time to be in a relationship.

Thank you all for your input and support.

In some regards, her ending things is the mature, responsible thing to do.  In other regards, she's running from her own fears and that's never going to get better until she faces things head-on.

If you're still friends and talking, that's great.  "It's over" rarely means that from BPDs, it means they're running away before they run right back again.  So give this time, be gentle and supportive, and don't feel the need to pressure her back into a relationship.  If you push, she'll feel smothered and run.  So do the opposite of that.

This is the bettering category, so we must give advice on restoring the relationship.  If this was in a different category though, folks would say that her ending the relationship could be a blessing in disquise.  So take this break for what it actually is- a time to gather thoughts, grow emotionally, and see if there's something there down the road.  Since you're long distance, that makes it somewhat easier for both of you and it could actually help rekindle things.

 83 
 on: October 26, 2026, 07:20:21 AM  
Started by BPDpartner15 - Last post by BPDpartner15
Unfortunately she has decided to end the relationship. She believes she has too much to work on and heal on her own. 

We're still friends and I wish her the best and hope she can heal. I love and admire her and sadly she thinks it's just not the right time to be in a relationship.

Thank you all for your input and support.

 84 
 on: October 26, 2026, 06:56:31 AM  
Started by GrumpyHusband - Last post by Randi Kreger
I’m glad that you found stop walking on eggshells helpful. But I would really recommend stop walking on eggshells for partners. It is a much better book. And it suited to your problem.

You asked the following questions


2)  Some of the symptoms are spot on (sudden violent anger).  But some seem to be the exact opposite (doesn't seem to be afraid to walk away, potential divorce has been brought up many times recently).

Borderline spouses seem to bring up Divorce a lot. This isn’t unusual. It also isn’t unusual that she has some traits and not others. I would be curious as to what would happen if you really seriously were questioning the relationship and she found out. I don’t think that she would be as likely to walk away or threaten divorce. But that’s just my opinion.

I spent a lot of time trying to understand, borderline behavior, and the diagnosis, and after many years, I came to the realization that none of it really matters unless they’re going to get treatment. What you want to look out for is behaviors that upset you or make your life a hassle. The partners book explains how to communicate, and set limits and communicate about them. And then it tells you what to do when your spouse doesn’t respect those limits.

Limits are always for you, how do you keep yourself safe. They are not a way to control the other person because that is impossible.




3)  How can I know if she really has a problem?  Maybe it really is me, like she says?  Or both of us?

People with borderline spouses always turn over every single stone to see if something is wrong with them. Are you undergoing some gaslighting, criticism, or blame?

Actually, you are the one with the problem: you are married to somebody whose behavior disturbs you. She is not going to solve that for you. You might want to make a step-by-step plan of what to do next.



 85 
 on: October 26, 2026, 06:54:25 AM  
Started by Randi Kreger - Last post by Notwendy
One thought that comes to mind is the possibility he might be dismissive avoidant since he doesn't have the full NPD picture? The always having to be right, dismissing other points of view can be part of that.

 86 
 on: October 26, 2026, 06:42:08 AM  
Started by Randi Kreger - Last post by Randi Kreger
OK, I am making a first post.

My name is Randi Kreger and I am the author of the well-known book stop walking on eggshells.

My latest book is stop walking on eggshells for partners. It is specifically written for partners, and includes information such as: why you chose each other, what you bring to the relationship, why your partner behaves the way they do, whether or not you are at fault or are lacking, and how to make decisions about the relationship. I also go over  communications and setting limits.

I wrote stop walking on eggshells in 1997. The partners book has 30 more years of thinking behind it and really represents my best work.

But that’s not why I’m here.

Narcissism is comorbid with BPD. Over the years, I began to realize how the two disorders interact together.

I finally came to the awakening that my husband had traits of narcissistic personality disorder. He didn’t have a false self. He was not grandiose. He was empathetic to other people, in fact, he really didn’t have a lot of narcissistic traits.

Except… He always has to be right. He can not  listen and consider another person‘s point of view. His view of reality is always the correct one. My reality is considered unimportant.

So that’s what I’m trying to deal with right now. Any ideas?






 87 
 on: October 26, 2026, 04:50:21 AM  
Started by TheFox - Last post by Tupla Sport
I think the magical thinking has to do with how people with BPD (which stands for the borderline between neurotic and psychotic) usually find it nearly impossible to self-soothe using rational thinking. They simply are convinced by rational thinking even less than the average person is. Magical thinking is like a crutch for our consciousness. It's always available unless we keep watch on our thoughts. It allows us to fantasize (and catastrophize...) based entirely on our feelings. It's really a creative process used as a truth-seeking one I think.

One of my BPD exes, the actually diagnosed one, harboured magical thinking. The other one, undiagnosed, did not in the conventional sense, though she made a big deal about her open self-loathing. She expressed this darkness through art and worryingly enough, sex. One could argue she employed a negative type of magical thinking where she was this corrosive force of evil not worthy of anything human.

 88 
 on: October 26, 2026, 01:28:35 AM  
Started by punkertron - Last post by ForeverDad
It's a funny old thing, isn't it? Out of sight, out of mind.

Object constancy. Or perhaps the apparent absence of it. The idea that once someone is no longer physically present in your life, it's somehow easier to behave as though they no longer exist. As though four years of shared history, love, commitment, promises and sacrifices can simply disappear because you've decided you no longer want to acknowledge them.

I had been married some 15 years when my marriage imploded.  It was all about custody and parenting and the divorce dragged on for an agonizing two years.  Now that you are at the ended phase, the only good (less bad) thought I can contribute is to be thankful you didn't have children together.  Children are blessings of course, but when acting-out (harming others more than self) mental illness is involved, dealing with the aftermath of BPD is even more complicated and devastating.

I first heard the object constancy concepts when I read our Custody Evaluator's preliminary report in the middle of our divorce process.  Of course, by then I had already experienced how I had been transformed from the love of her life to Mr Evil Personified.

I loved this person enormously. I genuinely believed she was my soulmate, the person I would spend the rest of my life with.

There's a quote by Maya Angelou sometimes mentioned here... "When people show you who they are, believe them."  She is who she is.  You can't fix her, just as you can't fix the failed relationship.  Likely the only help for her is meaningful therapy diligently applied throughout her life, but that is a choice only she can make.  It is just something to Accept while we go through the stages of Grieving a Loss.

Here is a partial quote from one of the best articles by clinical psychologist Dr Joe Carver:
Excerpt
Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships

Summary
As we go through life, we encounter a variety of individuals. We also develop a variety of relationships with others including family members, neighbors, fellow workers, friends, and familiar faces. Healthy relationships seem to be healthy in the same way – having characteristics of respect, concern for others, affection, cooperation, honesty, mutual goals, etc. A relationship with a Personality Disorder is totally different. That 9 or 10 percent of adults with a “Cluster B” Personality Disorder can create significant difficulties in our life. In brief contacts they are often troublesome - the uncle who is a con artist or the sister-in-law that nobody can tolerate at holiday dinners. When we bring them into our lives however, a Personality Disorder rapidly takes over and our life becomes centered on their needs, demands, and goals. To achieve their self-centered objectives, the Personality Disorder becomes the controller, abuser, manipulator and user in relationships. The early identification of individuals who create unhealthy relationships can save us from years of heartache as well as damage to our personality, self-esteem, finances, and lifestyle.

Dr Joe Carver has long since retired and his website is gone (except perhaps in the archive.org WayBack Machine) but this link has an entire article to download:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305771.0

 89 
 on: October 26, 2026, 12:06:05 AM  
Started by punkertron - Last post by Pook075
Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're going through this and yes, we can imagine it.  You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone here who said their BPD marriage ended amicably, after months of talking and trying to work through things.  In almost every case, the BPD ran and it was like a switch was flipped...they went from loving spouse to mortal enemy set on destroying you.  They went from abuser to victim.  They went from best friend to stranger virtually overnight.

Let me help you make sense of everything though.  Ready for it?  She's mentally ill.  There's the missing link, the part that makes all the chaos make sense.  Because of her mental illness, she runs from problems instead of facing them, because that's the only path she has to avoid admitting that she has some serious problems within.

She didn't leave you because of you.  She left for purely selfish internal reasons.  She left because her mind was so busy second-guessing how much of a screw up she's been in life, that she couldn't imagine how you could still love her.  So before you could break her heart, she ran...just like every BPD does.

In a Hollywood movie, you'd make a grand gesture to prove your love and it would be happily ever after.  That sometimes works in real life as well.  But with BPD and unstable emotions, the plain truth is often impossible for them to see.  Once their disordered minds start down a certain path, it's almost impossible to reverse course because it's admitting that they made critical mistakes in judgement, that they betrayed someone they loved the most, that they burned everything to the ground just to avoid having one real conversation.

That's why grand gestures for BPDs end up being called stalking, threatening, humiliation.  Their minds just can't process the truth once they decide that it's a lie.  Becuase the process of doing that is admititng fault and wondering how they could have things so wrong, how their thinking could be so off course.

For my story, I was married for 23 years.  My wife withdrew over a two-week period, then suddenly left one night.  We didn't have any major arguments or anything like that- it just ended.  And I remember telling my kids, "Everything is fine, we just need to talk this out."  Boy was I wrong...about everything.  I couldn't have even imagined where my ex's thought process was because we were a million miles apart in our intentions.

It gutted me for sure, and for the next four months I struggled to make any sense of my reality.  I stayed positive and held onto false hope, thinking she'd be back any time now.  Maybe by Thanksgiving or Christmas...she'll remember our family and want to return.  But that's not what was happening at all since she had already moved on without anyone knowing.

Your title asked for advice and opinions.  Here's my honest advice- start moving forward with your life.  Get back out there as a DJ or do something completely different.  Stop thinking about what you've lost and turn your focus on what there is to gain for the rest of your life.  And most of all, stop wondering how or why all of this happened, or what you could have done differently. 

The answer to absolutely everything is that she's mentally ill and she runs from the first sign of problems within.  She's done it her entire life, with everyone she's grown close to.  And she will continue to do it for the rest of her life.  She's sick, she's disordered, and she has no control over this without taking mental illness seriously. 

In short, it's not your fault...none of it.  The only path for you to take is the one moving forward, which means you must stop looking back and letting it eat away at your heart, mind, and soul.

 90 
 on: October 25, 2026, 08:17:35 PM  
Started by punkertron - Last post by mywifecrazy
Hi punkertron. Not trying to minimizing your pain but the sad part is we CAN imagine what you’re going through because all of us on here to one extent or another have suffered at the hands of a BPD we once loved. My BPD nightmare happened after 18 yrs of marriage and 2 sons. But I am 13 years out and fully healed. There is light at the end of the tunnel!! You’re in the right place and amongst friends.Let it out/vent on here and read other people’s stories. Your goal now is to take your focus off of her and to focus on you and your emotional well being. Learn and do the work that is offered on these boards. I feel for you and do understand your pain. Hang in there!!
MWC

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