Hello. I have posted here about my sister, who had been basically normal (or at least not clinical, and able to maintain relationships without aggression) but began aggressively exhibiting BPD symptoms in her late 30s following a family tragedy.

My question is about going NC. I notice that this seems less common on this site than I would expect and would be interested in thoughts from this group.

In our situation, the whole immediate family has gone NC over the past 8 months or so.  After about 10 months of trying, with no success, to find resolution or convince her to get help or to just stop, everyone got exhausted by the abuse and also observed that it seemed like any type of feedback just added fuel to the fire.  So collectively, the immediate family stopped responding or contacting her, except on a few occasions when she expressed suicidal ideation and managed to get a reaction from her terrified family.  (Her spouse is the only one still standing - depending on the day, he totally denies anything is wrong or blames the family for destroying her.)

This was so painful, but in some ways, the break may have been cleaner than most. She has no kids and lives a few hours away from the family. She is healthy and generally high functioning.  In more recent weeks, she lashed out at people outside the immediate family or made good on repeated threats to smear immediate family members to extended family and friends, so immediate family have reached out to tell others what is going on with her. (Of course she views herself as the victim of that and believes the family is intentionally turning everyone against her.) So everyone is basically on one side - angry, sad, wishing she were better, but not interested in interacting with her until/unless she is. 

This might have been less complicated because her behavior was a new development, so there was no ingrained dynamic that involved people managing her. Also, because of how this was tied to a tragedy, it was very clear what the priorities were, and that she was undermining efforts to stabilize the affected children and hurting innocent people who were already dealing with a crisis. She doesn't look good to anyone, going after widows, older people, and children.

The most affected family member also got a protective order against her due to fear of continuing escalation, and after she made good on threats to smear that person to family and colleagues, and tried to contact the children against the parent's wishes.

While there is real concern for her physical safety, I think part of the thinking here was that funneling all this blame and aggression towards others was allowing her to avoid a breakdown, resulting from trauma and guilt from the tragedy, which needed to happen in order to get her treatment and so she could rebuild. Without anywhere for the abuse to "land," the hope (sadly) was that she would turn it inward or on her spouse, resulting in things falling apart so that there was nothing to do except get help.  And while the protective order was very much needed for protection, it also seemed like she needed a reason to stop escalating and taking destructive action. It has only been a few weeks, but so far, the legal and career repercussions of the order seem to have made an impact, and she has generally complied.

My questions for others are, what do you think about the assumptions in the prior paragraph? Have you seen going NC lead to any change in the BPD person or is it simply a way to shield and cushion others? 

If you did not go NC or were less able to "cleanly" go NC and take advantage of legal protections because doing so would jeopardize other family relationships or alienate children or an old or ill person, despite their BPD - if you could have go NC without these concerns, would you have? Or do you see a benefit in continuing to try even if it exposes you and others to abuse, fear, stress, etc.?

This group is a comfort. I have found the responses and the posts to be so thoughtful and information. Thank you.

My BPD kid has always taken deaths brutually hard, ever since she was a little kid.  We wouldn't let her go to funerals because she'd be absolutely inconsolable (did I spell that right?  I don't know, LOL).  As an adult, she's been admitted multiple times shortly after a semi-close family member passed.

I think it's part guilt (of not being better to that person), part disordered thinking, part of feeling abandoned like you said.  It's always a whole thing for us though- don't tell our kid or post anything on social until we tell her!  We need to be the ones to talk to her so we can assess how bad it's going to be.

Absolutely, and almost guaranteed when the pwBPD is riled up.  Deflection, rejection, sarcasm (Oh right, you're sorry), bossing around (Shut the * up, I'm not finished yet, don't interrupt me!).  I think those are signs that nothing you say will make things better.  In fact, that's one of my go-to refrains, "There's nothing I can say to make it better."  That's my cue that I'm exiting the conversation and will gray rock instead.  For me, being as still and boring as a gray rock tends to work better than an apology.  Why?  I don't think they're ready for an apology when they're all riled up.  They're MAD and need to let it out in my opinion.  They don't want a dialogue, they want an outlet.

Indeed, I've seen a similar sort of thing play out, where the pwBPD in my life had unrealistic expectations of control / decision-making / attention / catering to, and when she didn't get the consideration she thought she was accorded, not only did she blow up in the moment, but she held a grudge forever.  The "crazy" thing is that a "normal" person wouldn't have had such unreasonable expectations in the first place.  Further, even if they were hurt in the moment, a "normal" person probably wouldn't have taken it personally; they would have thought, well, the situation was stressful for everyone, they probably were just focussed on getting through it and didn't intend to do anyone any harm.  But worst of all, even if she was insulted or aggrieved, she couldn't keep it to herself in the name of keeping the peace / friendship / family together.  No, she has a conniption fit, surprising everyone, and typically blowing things way, way out of proportion.  Not only that, she's indignant that people don't immediately take "her side."  Rather than a standard apology, she usually seeks to "punish" others for the supposed wrongs, because an apology won't suffice.  You used the word "retribution," which is a word that often comes to my mind when I think about the pwBPD in my life.  It's like she's constantly seeking retribution for perceived slights and wrongs.  Yet she typically doesn't get it.  Her response?  Typically she'll initiate a period of estrangement, thinking she'll "punish" others with her absence.  Perhaps ironically, I think many people are relieved not to have to deal with her. 

That's a long-winded way of saying that for the pwBPD in my life, I suspect that half the time she's not even really sure what she's upset about, not really.  It's like she's constantantly misattributing the source of her distress.  Either that, or she's just projecting her internal distress outwardly in any stressful situation, and her brain "invents" an external cause for her malaise, when really what she's feeling is generic inferiority / alienation / jealousy / sadness.  It's almost as if she intentionally picks a fight, so that she can release her pent up anger, and then initiate a period of estrangement to get relief.  Alas, this has been a recurring cycle, almost bizarrely predictable.

Now, I'm not saying that a death in the family isn't traumatic.  It typically is for everyone involved.  I just think that big life events which are emotionally charged--a death in the family, moving homes, a marriage, the birth of a baby, a family reunion, holiday gatherings, birthdays, break-ups, a big vacation--are a tinderbox for pwBPD.  That's another theme you might encounter on these boards.  I think the pwBPD build up these impossible expectations for these moments and then act out when they don't play out as expected.

Just know that this is BPD, and it's best not to take her anger personally.

Well, God bless you for that.  There's no telling where she might have ended up if you didn't adopt her.  I was adopted at birth so I know what that means- my entire life is something different if my parents didn't do what they did.

What you're describing is disordered thinking and it means she's unstable (which I'm sure you could have already guessed).  When she's in that mindset, it is not the time for heart to heart conversations because everything is going to be twisted into something else.  It's a truly heartbreaking disease and you can't take any of this personaly, even when it is deeply personal.

My BPD kid said something about me to a family member a few months back that ripped my heart out- I couldn't believe she'd make up something that sinister about me.  I didn't confront her though and I reached out to my ex wife (who's also BPD) and our other daughter.  They told family members that it was an outright lie, which was the main thing I was worried about.  But still, it stung and my BPD kid basically cut me off for being a horrible father (for correcting her massive lie to others about myself).

We have texted a bit recently though and my BPD daughter mentioned it to several other family members.  So I know she still cares about me and she probably regrets what she said.  I'll never get an apology though and I know that I'll have to live with that.  So again, I completely understand, because this lie alienated me from family for a time and I didn't even know about it for months.

Things will inevitably change in time though and you'll have more chances to reconnect.  I hope that somehow helps and I'm so sorry for what's going on with your mom.

This happened to me too. It broke up family relationships. It seemed so confusing and so unfair, and at a difficult time for me.

I still don't know exactly how it all happened this way or what the family members had heard or were thinking. It sadly resulted in long lasting confusion and divisions. Later on, some of BPD mother's family reached out to me and we were able to reconcile and begin to repair.

One of the practices suggested to me in counseling was to not say the word "you" and only use "I". It got awkward speaking that way but the idea was to think of ways to say things in that perspective, from my own side of the fence rather than to make it about the other person. In normal conversations, we have to use the word "you" sometimes but it helped to practice this.

Did I ever hear "don't patronize me" or an accusation? Yes, but using the "you" word would have escalated the situation.  Sometimes saying anything could result in an escalation. We can't control the other person. So we aren't doing this to try to do that. They will decide their own answer or reaction.

The goal for me is to keep out of the drama cycle. To the question "why did you go NC?" I could say "I needed a mental health break" and that might result in a not so kind response. But then, I don't have to react to that. The question has been answered on my part. If there's escalation, that is time to bow out of the conversation.

They may not like the answer but that's their choice.

What you say makes sense and when it has been the case, I do lean into apologizing or giving her a way back without wounding her pride. This time she outright lied about my participation in caring for the baby, told people I was financially using her, called me a bad mom publicly on Facebook. I have reached out but she is unresponsive. She also cut my mother off who is dying of metastatic cancer. My mother is heartbroken. She felt my mom took my side when all she said was that my daughter should try to meet me in the middle.

I have heard from her half sister that she is out drinking and partying. She knows because it’s being posted on Instagram. My husband did send her a text that her Nana is dying but no response as of yet. Most of my resources are directed at helping my mom transition to hospice care and making the most of the time we have left. I really hate this disease but I adopted her and I was warned by the court liaison that she was a very troubled child when I fought to remove her from an abusive guardian. I have brought this upon myself.

At times, sure.  But the reason why is what I shared over on your thread- they see everything as black/white or good/bad.

If you hate someone and think that they're out to ruin you, would one statement like that change everything?  Probably not.  But by doing it consistently over time, their thinking changes and the "switch flips" from black to white. 

It takes time and so much patience...we all fail far more than we succeed.

Have you encountered a PWBPD who will react to this type of thing by deflecting or rejecting it - saying things like "stop gaslighting me," or claim that you are being insincere?