Hello,

I found this message board while searching for "Welcome to Oz", I'm about 100 pages into Stop Walking on Eggshells and my mind has been blown wide open with how much my relationship mirrors that of someone living with a person with BPD.  I have my own issue with porn addiction and have been in recovery for 10+ years (ups and downs) and my spouse has always been able to use my addiction against me.  I have low self-esteem so I unknowingly fell further and further into her beratement over my problem.  The past 5 years I've sensed something was wrong.  There should be grace, foregiviness, and a desire to work on things.  Instead it's been in-house-separation for 2 years with her emotionally and verbally abusing me with my past mistakes.  I had a mental breakdown, fell into depression, and started floating suicidal thoughts.  Thankfully I've gotten help.  I'm on anti-depressants for 1.5 years, seeing a pyschiatrist, and working with a counselor.  Life for me individually has gotten much better.  Life with her is still bitter, distant, and painful. 

SWOE has helped me see that it's not just me, there's more to this story.  As I have prepped for a possible divorce and written out a relatinoship timeline I've seen that there's much more to this than I originally realized.  It's aligning so much with BPD and so many things are clicking into place.  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her.

Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.  I don't know whether to stay or go, but staying has felt hopeless for a long time now.  She's told me numerous times that if I want to divorce, go ahead.  But that she's staying b/c she doesn't want to lose time w/our kids, doesn't want to get a full time job, and doesn't want to lose the house.  I feel no hope for her wanting to "work on us"

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

Hello,

I found this message board while searching for "Welcome to Oz", I'm about 100 pages into Stop Walking on Eggshells and my mind has been blown wide open with how much my relationship mirrors that of someone living with a person with BPD.  I have my own issue with porn addiction and have been in recovery for 10+ years (ups and downs) and my spouse has always been able to use my addiction against me.  I have low self-esteem so I unknowingly fell further and further into her beratement over my problem.  The past 5 years I've sensed something was wrong.  There should be grace, foregiviness, and a desire to work on things.  Instead it's been in-house-separation for 2 years with her emotionally and verbally abusing me with my past mistakes.  I had a mental breakdown, fell into depression, and started floating suicidal thoughts.  Thankfully I've gotten help.  I'm on anti-depressants for 1.5 years, seeing a pyschiatrist, and working with a counselor.  Life for me individually has gotten much better.  Life with her is still bitter, distant, and painful. 

SWOE has helped me see that it's not just me, there's more to this story.  As I have prepped for a possible divorce and written out a relatinoship timeline I've seen that there's much more to this than I originally realized.  It's aligning so much with BPD and so many things are clicking into place.  My spouse has, since the start of our relationship, constantly asked me "do you love me?" and accused me of trying to cheat on her, talk to others, or even sleep with others, all without any evidence other than my porn addiction (I promise the extent of my addiction is nothing illegal and is only about medicating through anonymity via pixels on the screen).  I've felt so dumbfounded and confused, as if I'm trying to fight for who I am against my partner, rather than with her.

Muddying the waters is we've got 2 kids now, 7 and 5, and my spouse doesn't work.  We don't have enough money for a divorce, I don't want to leave my kids alone with her, and at the same time I feel like nothing will change unless she has a major shock to her system.

I don't know what to do, but I know I need to find community and speak up for myself.  Looking forward to dialogue here to help me figure things out.

You are not alone. So many of the feelings and concerns you have are ones which many of us on this site can identify with.

My mother with BPD is deceased and I am one of many scapegoats from several generations in my family of origin and large extended family. I wanted to help my mother in her later years and could not because of how my siblings were abusing both her and me. I do not feel guilty just sad. I am currently no contact with my sister with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and shunned by most of the family for refusing to continue in the scapegoat role.

It is so hard with your mother still alive. You want to help her yet self care as you are doing has to be the first priority. Know that your feelings are normal and it just feels overwhelming at times to realize how awful the family dynamics are and how little power you have to change the way your disordered family members behave while sabotaging the well being of themselves and the people around them. How do you handle the periods of distress? We can lessen how badly these times affect us in their intensity and duration however having a mother with BPD and disordered siblings are life long sorrows. Do allot times to grieve these losses so you feel less overwhelmed in unexpected moments.

Thank you very much for your reply and kind supportive words. It is helpful to know that I am not alone. I appreciate your ideas and article.  I will take a look. Have a great day.

Are they diagnosed BPD?

What are you hoping for?  You're posting on the detaching and learning board, but it sounds like you're really not over them...

It's up to you what you want to do, but it sounds like she moved on - perhaps to someone else - without looking back.  If you want to reach out, I don't see any harm in that; the worst she can say is "No" or "do not contact me" right?  Just don't have any expectations, and realize if this person ditched you so easily over "feelings" once, they can do it again, even if they seem receptive to rekindling the relationship.  It sounds like you fall hard for people, or at least you did for this person, so harden your heart a bit if she (I think you referred to "her") does open the door. 

This part though:


How much of what she said are you sure about?  If someone I was in a relationship said that to me, I'd probably just move on.  Even assuming she's being completely honest and forthcoming with you, indicting an entire gender over the actions of one (1) person shows a lot of emotional immaturity on her part, and a need to grow up. 

And that's the best case scenario.  if - on the other hand - she's NOT being completely honest, and some or all of that is made up, well she just revealed that she would play games with your feelings & could discard someone she supposedly loves for no reason at all. 

You aren't alone here. There are several of us with similar stories. My BPD mother has passed away. My father, who also enabled her, passed away several years before her. I also was expected to be the strong one, his- co-enabler.

Dad's passing was difficult- I know it was for you too. It's a huge loss. Our extended families lack the capability to be of emotional support during this situation.

In addition to counseling- I also did this since college, I found ACA groups and CODA groups helped me to let go of some of the feelings of being responsible for our disordered family members. However, this gets complicated when a disordered parent is elderly, because, elderly people can be dependent on others. The line between when to help and when to have boundaries is not always clear.

You aren't alone with this. I think we try to balance boundaries, our own emotional well being, while also feeling the obligation to help an aging parent. My best description of this is like walking a tightrope- sometimes it's a balance, we sometimes wobble, fall to one side or the other. All we can do is the best we can. It's imperfect. Guilt is a part of that, but FOG- Fear, Obligation, Guilt- is also part of the roles in family dysfunction.

I have posted this article. It may not be the exact situation but the emotions are similar.

https://slate.com/technology/2022/03/mentally-ill-parent-elder-care-boundaries-liz-scheier.html

Some of the guilt may also be grief. Grief that this isn't the kind of relationship we wish we had.

First of all- you are not required to sacrifice or jeapordize you or your own family's well being for your mother's situation. On the other hand, if you wish to do something in support, then that is your choice too.

Are you in the US? It helped me to meet with an elder law attorney to learn the resources, such as what Medicare covers, Medicaid, power of attorney if you wish to pursue this or not- there are pros and cons to that. If no one wishes to take this role, the state can appoint a guardian in the event your mother isn't self directed.

Depending on your mother's financial situation, or mental state- she may be eligible for some kind of services like Medicaid that may help cover needs like nursing home care or some home health care if needed. It helps to be informed, even if these resources aren't needed or used, but to be able to have an idea of what is available or not.

It may be that you don't need to consult an attorney and take on that cost. In the US there are organizations like the Council on Aging that have volunteers who can meet with you and explain what is available and who qualifies.

Although my mother had BPD, she remained legally competent and self directed, so she made her own decisions. She did not qualify for some resources but it helped to know what was available for her.

You still can make whatever choices you wish, but I found it helpful to learn what was available. Keep posting here- and there are others who can also add their advice.

Welcome, and it's good you found this board. 

What sort of issues are you concerned about your the children experiencing?  Are these children both of yours, or were they brought into the relationship when you got involved with her by one of you?

Hello!
I have had to deal with growing up in a highly dysfunctional family with a borderline mother at the helm and 2 mentally ill sisters, one is borderline. My father enabled my mother's behavior; he was too fearful to stand up to her and therefore didn't protect us from her emotional and physical abuse. I fell into the role of the family regulator/fixer/pleaser. I am the oldest and strongest and I have been in therapy for most of my life starting in college which helped to give me the strength to only recently set strong boundaries with my mother and sisters, resulting in a very low contact situation now which is minimal texting with them. I also sent them all letters stating I love them but will not participate in unhealthy family dynamics or hurtful behavior towards me. The breaking point was my father's death 8 years ago which unveiled the mental dysfunction of my mother and one sister. I was left to handle my father's estate, the selling of his home and the funeral alone. My husband almost died in surgery a month later. Completely alone without any support from my mom or sisters, complete silence.... This silence woke me up and uncovered the truth of my family. I continue to hold my boundaries through their tricks, and schemes to get me back into the role of the family regulator and golden child. I am now the scapegoat which is very uncomfortable but tolerable because I now value my own mental health and my family I have created as the main priority over meeting my mother's and sister's needs. But as my mother ages I worry about her death, how my sisters will lash out at me and blame me for hurting her and how I will feel after she dies? Will I have guilt and regret? I invited my mom to a therapy session but afterwards she told me we just need to put the past behind us and didn't ask to continue. I also stated that I am willing to go to family therapy, but she hasn't followed through. I already have chronic guilt that ebbs and flows. I now understand the guilt is because of my conditioning to please my mother and sisters at my expense, which started as a very young child. The boundaries I have set have allowed me to feel calmer and more grounded in my life than I ever have in my life. My life is very peaceful and happy as I focus on my husband, children, a small group of healthy friends I have in my life and my career. However, I feel very alone and guilty at times and struggle to feel validated in a world that doesn't understand the complexities of my experience. The choice I have made is to turn away from my family of origin to be healthy, but the cost is the chronic guilt, which can feel like a high price to pay at times, causing me to rethink my choices and consider reaching out to contact my mom and ask if we can work things out..... any thoughts or guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Hi again,

I'm so glad you were able to talk to your son and remain calm, even if he was going down a negative thinking spiral.  I really think it's best if you remain calm when you talk with him, in the hopes that your calmness will rub off on him.  If you're available to him and stay calm, I think he'll appreciate that.  But if he turns it into a bashing session, and you're starting to feel anxious, then you can calmly extricate yourself (Gotta run, talk to you later, bye). 

It seems to me that he's figuring out what his issues are--he feels lonely.  It's remarkable that he's that open with you.  And yet, it's completely normal to feel lonely from time to time.  My guess is he wants a girlfriend?  Or maybe he needs some buddies to hang out with?  That's typical for someone his age, especially these days when young people spend so much time with screens at home.  It might have seemed easier to make friends in high school and college, with the repeated, low-stakes interactions with peers, which is key to forming friendships in my opinion.  Without that sort of set-up in adult life, making (and keeping) friends can seem challenging.  Moreover, he's probably plagued with a negative self-perception.

But here's the thing.  The pwBPD in my life felt the same way.  She lost her friends because she was too needy, negative and a total *itch to them.  But there are millions of other potential friends out there, right?  I think her main problem was that she was way too passive.  She thought and thought about how lonely she was, and she expected friends to come to her, to apologize for whatever grievance she felt she had against them.  She wanted to be invited to parties.  She wanted to be asked out.  But she didn't really figure out that she needed to take ACTION.  My opinion is that the best way to reduce anxiety is to think less and DO more.  Does your son want to meet more women?  Then he needs to start going where they are.  I'm not talking about bars, where interactions seem too superficial and transactional.  One idea is to go to a gym regularly.  Eventually he'll be around some like-minded (sporty) people, and familiarity breeds friendship.  He could consider joining a class--boxing, HIIT, yoga, spinning, whatever suits him.  It doesn't matter if he's not "good" at it . . . it's probably better if he's not!  Then people will probably try to help him, and they'll admire him for trying something new!  Everyone can relate to learning something new! 

Now, how to encourage your son to "get out there"?  I'd recommend refraining from giving direct advice, unless he asks for it.  But if he says, "I'm lonely," you could say, "It must get you down to feel lonely, what do you think you could do to address that?"  See what he says.  If he gets agitated and goes down a negative thinking spiral, then he's not receptive to ideas.  But if he sticks to the present ("I don't know, I can't seem to meet anybody"), that's when you could say something like this:  "Yeah, when I moved to a new area and was working all the time, it was hard at first to make friends.  But I started scheduling some activities in my calendar, to have experiences to look forward to, and eventually I made a friend or two.  What do you think might be fun?"  Since he's negative, he might not be very creative, but you could nudge him a little bit:  A classic car show?  A concert?  Hosting a BBQ/cocktails in your apartment block?  Volunteering at the pet shelter?  Joining a running club?  Going to see a friend's band play?  The key is to get out and be with people on a regular basis, ideally in a situation with regular, repeated, lower-stakes interactions, as simple as taking a dog to the park every morning at 7 am.  Even if he does things alone, when people ask, "Are you doing anything fun this weekend?" he'll have a good answer for that!

The thing that I've noticed with the pwBPD in my life, she's just not very "creative" when it comes to making a life for herself.  She seems to have no idea about all the cool things there are to do in her area, let alone the volunteer opportunities and such.  I think she really needed a nudge or two to help her find neat things to do, to help bolster her "identity," when she was in a receptive mood.  One thing I did was help her find a volunteer opportunity in her field of interest (art), which was right up her alley, and which also helped her build out her art portfolio.  Now I didn't get involved in the application process or anything, it was more like, "I saw this opportunity and though it might be of interest to you," and forwarded her a link to the "volunteers needed" webpage.  I'm delighted to say that she followed up and volunteered with the organization for a time.  I'm just saying that she needed a little nudge, because she just doesn't know about this sort of thing, let alone how to find opportunities like that. 

Does that make any sense?

There are two things that I noticed about your post. One is the young lady with BPD and the other is your ages.

Please understand that I don't discount teen relationships- they matter- but also age is a factor in relationships, in terms of emotional growth. Most teens aren't emotionally or financially ready to settle down for the long run and that is OK. So while addressing what she's done-it's also good to think- "what can I learn from this" for yourself.

BPD is a mental illness, not a temporary issue someone has. An aspect of BPD is emotional immaturity. What you saw was that this person was one way on line, and then completely different in person. She was able to form a sort of "fantasy" relationship with you at a distance- but in person, not able to manage any kind of closeness. While there's also BPD involved- being able to have a relationship at a distance can also be a stage for a young teen. I have seen it written that young teens have "crushes" on rock stars, before they have the emotional maturity to have a relationship in person, as the star is at a safe - likely impossible-distance. There's no relational emotional expectations from a person far away, or online. How she acted was not about you, but that she wasn't emotionally ready to have that kind of relationship in person.

Teens can also have changing emotions. Sometimes they think they are interested in someone, and then change their minds. Relationships might be short. This is age appropriate for a very young teen. What's confusing is when someone has BPD, they may be chronologically older, but still emotionally, acting younger.

Due to teen development, age gaps can be much larger at this age. A three year age gap is minimal for an older adult but for a teen- each year represents a lot of growth. So she may be a little younger than you but that gap, in addition to BPD, may be much larger emotionally.

From your post, I think what happened was confusing to you, but not about you. She may not be emotionally ready for an in person relationship. When and if she will be, one doesn't know that.

For your situation- you seem like a mature and empathetic person- and so are ahead in your readiness for a relationship. However, being a teen still, I don't think you are looking to settle down yet. Relationships for you are sincere- but not likely forever, at least not now. What can you learn from this one that will help you in future relationships, one that may one day be for the long run?

First, trust your gut and pay attention to how you feel around a person you are interested in. Do you feel confused or stressed. How does this person behave with you, not only in fun easy times, but if there are any challenges? How do the two of you match up in emotional maturity, values? Are they straightforward with you?

Also pay attention to your feelings of needing to be there for the person, help the person, even somehow fix them. The best person for you is someone who is a partner to you, not someone you need to rescue. There's a difference between being mutually supportive and rescuing.

Enjoy your time being single. Seems you have a lot going for you, playing in a band, and also there's likely career goals ahead of you. You aren't obligated to be in a rescuing position to someone you are interested in. Rescuing is different than helping a friend, being a support person during a difficult time as a friend to someone who is usually stable but going through a rough patch. You have your own emotional and career growth to focus on. That doesn't mean to be cold hearted or not care for other people, but you can choose who to be close to, and where your time and energy goes too.

You've decided this isn't something you wish to continue and you can decide this. Trust you gut here.