Hi Trinket58,

Welcome to BPDFamily. I’m really glad you found your way here, and I’m sorry for what’s brought you in.

Reading your post, you sound overwhelmed and exhausted. Being attacked by both of your daughters at the same time, especially when it feels undeserved, can cut very deep. It makes sense that you’d be feeling hurt, angry, and vulnerable all at once.

Wanting to get out of that environment doesn’t sound selfish to me. It sounds like you’re recognizing how much this is affecting you and that you need some space to breathe. Sometimes distance isn’t about giving up, it’s about protecting yourself so you don’t get pulled further into the chaos.

I can also hear how hard it is with your grandkids being there. That kind of pull can make everything feel even more complicated, like you’re being torn in two directions.

You’re not alone in feeling this way. Many parents here have faced similar moments where they’ve had to choose between staying in something that hurts or stepping back to take care of themselves.

If it feels okay, what do you think you’ll need in those first few days after you move out to help you settle and feel a bit more grounded?

We’re here with you.

Hi Me88,

I’m really glad you came back and shared this. It sounds like you handled a tough situation really well.

Reading this, what stands out to me is how clear you are on your boundaries. You’re not reacting, you’re looking at what actually happened, the risks involved, and what that could mean for you. That’s grounded.

It also sounds like you were heard this time. Both your service chief and your boss responded in a way that supports you. That matters.

Given everything you described, it makes complete sense that you wouldn’t want to be alone with her. That’s not about weakness or fear, that’s about protecting yourself in a situation where things could escalate quickly.

And I hear you on not wanting to open any doors again. You’ve moved forward, you’ve kept your distance, and you’re being intentional about keeping it that way.

At the same time, I can understand how frustrating it is that this keeps coming back around just when things felt calmer. That kind of “it never really ends” feeling can wear you down.

For now, it sounds like you’ve got support and a plan in place that keeps things separate. That’s a good place to be.

And if anything shifts, you don’t have to carry it on your own. We’re here with you.

Indeed, having seen some close family members deal with protracted, contentious divorces, it seems to me the fake "concern" serves three purposes in my mind:  to perpetuate the narrative of your purported abusive behavior, to engage in arguments with you (high-conflict individuals seek escalation, not resolution), and to create a paper trail of potential evidence to use against you.

I think the general advice here is to document, document, document, as well as to adopt the BIFF formula for communications:  keep things brief, informative, friendly and firm.  Brief, as in dealing with necessary logistical matters, not extraneous issues.  Informative, as in factual.  Friendly, as in respectful and business-like, not emotional.  And firm, to avoid openings for further discussion.

In the case of utterly false and potentially damaging accusations, you might consult a lawyer about how to respond.  Yet if child custody were to come into question as might have been the scenario above, when an ex is truly argumentative and accusatory, I might consider saving receipts for groceries as evidence of providing my child proper nutrition.  Maybe dated photos of school lunches could be used as a record, for example.  Document, document, document, especially any area that is potentially contentious.  In your case, it sounds like finances are contentious.

Good luck.

Maybe I can add some perspective on this from the standpoint of a daughter. At 17, I didn't understand the whole of what was going on with my BPD mother until much later but I knew something was different and that her behavior, at times, was not appropriate.  A focus of the family was "normalizing" her. It was important to her to appear as if she was a good and loving mother but her behavior was obviously different from other mothers. My father also would tell me "she really loves you"- I think perhaps he thought it would make me feel better, but she was also at times, emotionally and verbally abusive. This was very confusing - "love" and verbal/emotional abuse at the same time. In actuality, love to BPD mother was more about her emotional needs. You know yourself that when you told your daughter that her mother loved her, it wasn't entirely authentic. While I don't suggest you say derogatory things to her about her mother, I think honesty, validating your daughter's perspective, would be more valuable to your D.

From the physical standpoint, I could be left alone with her at 17, and we kids were home alone with her at times then. I was not physically abused, and we kids had what we needed. I could do household tasks- cooking, laundry. I was very self sufficient in these ways. But home alone with BPD mother was not emotionally safe. She tended to pull it together when others were around but alone, where nobody else could see, was not emotionally safe. You know that your wife's BPD affects other relationships besides yours and BPD does affect all relationships, including that with your children.

It may appear that your D can fend for herself. Children in this situation tend to be "parentified"- mature for their years. That can be good in some ways but emotionally - what they need is to feel emotionally safe. From my perspective, your D needs her father to protect her emotional safety and to not leave her to fend for herself- whatever you decide to do with your marriage.

I would not wait or expect your wife to go along with any plan according to your D's therapist. Your wife may say your D needs her- because, it's a horrible thought to a mother to think their children don't need her. However, to have her D with her may be more about her own needs than your D's. You will have to decide what is in your D's best interest, and also ask your D as well. At 17, she has a voice in this too.

Your daughter is old enough that the judge may ask her what kind of custody arrangement she would like. She is also old enough to apply to be emancipated in some legal jurisdictions. She may also be appointed a guardian ad litem who will advocate for her in the custody dispute. I am not sure if it would be appropriate or not for you to ask her what her preferences are for custody, though surely she has feelings about how she spends time with each parent.

The fake concern sounds familiar.  After I posted above about how BPDxw started accusing me of "stealing her money" after our divorce was finalized, I went back and read through some of the messages I rec'd from BPDxw around that time. 

I had forgotten that like on a weekly basis for MONTHS after our divorce was finalized she was sending me messages with these false claims of me neglecting our daughter on her overnight and weekend visits, only giving her a bag of chips in her school lunch, etc., along with this fake tone of "concern" and "helpful suggestions" like "you can find examples of healthy food to make our daughter with a quick internet search.  If you're too busy, I can send you some tips." 

I don't know what her goal was.  I guess the thought that if we ever ended up in court again, this was "evidence" against me. 

It was infuriating to read this stuff, but I never took the bait and responded.  That fake tone of concern though strikes me as so insidious and so practiced.  Like your mother, she was intentionally misleading others or trying to.  Their lives would be better if they just DID THE WORK, instead of constantly trying to manipulate others into doing it for them. 

It's funny now, to consider how BPDxw's words contrasted with her actions; she adopts this "Oh, I am first and foremost a mother, and it's lucky for our daughter's sake that I stayed on top of my ex husband!  You know how men are..."  But in reality, I recently had to teach my daughter how to do her own laundry, because she told me her bed at her mom's house was gross and her mom was "too busy" to clean her sheets.  And wouldn't buy her a second set.  And last year took her to the pediatrician who told me she was borderline anemic and needed supplements (And BPDxw argued with me and the pediatrician over that, and claimed she just needed more exercise when she was at my house.)   

Awe!  Thank you, I don't even know why I LOOK (though....a mutual FB friend is having a baby & she posted & that (hard to believe I am 56! ) "stung"...it is going to be what it is going to be!  I hope YOU had a GREAT bday!

and the whole kill her with kindness will backfire, given her self admitted usual mindset of keeping in touch with exes, recycling etc....I don't want this to open any doors or make her feel comfortable reaching out more.

Hi there,

Let me guess:  your daughters never forgave you for divorcing your dad.  They blame you for all the problems in their lives.  They cultivate a negative, victim attitude which is the core of their identity.  They hold unreasonable and unrealistic expectations of you--to serve them, to give them money, to take care of their kids and affairs, to bail them out, to sacrifice your life, to constantly prove your devotion to them.  They throw tantrums when you don't meet their insatiable demands.  While you bend over backwards to help, they do precious little to improve their own lives.  They are all take and no give.  And the worst part is, they are mean to you, calling you selfish, narcissistic, controlling, lazy, uncaring, childish, a loser, manipulative, domineering, incompetent, psychotic, undeserving of love--when you are the opposite.  That right there is typically projection of their own negative self-image onto you.  You crave closeness with them and the grandkids, but they don't really want closeness, they want a slave.  And my bet is they use the grandkids as pawns, threatening to prohibit access to them if you don't do exactly what you're told.  Meanwhile, you're worried about the grandkids growing up with an unstable and/or inattentive parent who acts inappropriately in front of the child.  Does that sound about right?

I'd advise, if you are being attacked, you should disengage.  My advice--don't JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain), just do it, as calmly and quietly as you can muster.  You could leave the room, hang up the phone, get busy with laundry, go to the bathroom, go for a walk, leave the nasty text unanswered.  Think of it as an "adult time out," and give your daughter(s) time and space to calm down, while at the same time, you take a break yourself.  My other advice is, don't interrupt the time out if at all possible.  Don't check in, beg for forgiveness, explain yourself, send money, bail her out or ask about anything.  Let her be the one who reaches out to you.  If she's still riled up, extend the time out.  Try only to engage when she's being civil.  My guess is that though she's an adult, she hasn't learned yet that she can't treat people like crap.  She thinks it's OK to have raging outbursts and be mean to others, because in her world, her incentives have been all mixed up--the more she rages, the more rewards she gets, such as money, free housing, free babysitting, etc.  She treats other friends/employers/romantic partners this way and wonders why they won't stick around.  Others won't put up with that, and nor should you.  Fair enough?

Now I'm not sure from your post how old your daughters are, but by my thinking, if they are 25 or older, your role probably needs to change.  When they were younger, I think it's appropriate for parents to help financially/logistically/administratively, as well as to dispense loving advice about life--because young adults are new at "adulting."  You might try to advise about housing, insurance, education, employment, home economics, child rearing, whatever.  But I think that adult children with BPD hear advice as criticism; they can't see through all the emotional baggage, either.  By age 25 or so, I think the role of a parent needs to shift.  You are not a provider and full-time nurturer anymore.  You are not really an adviser anymore either, unless you're asked.  I think you're mostly a loving cheerleader.  If your daughter(s) say, they want to move somewhere else, or start "fresh," I think you say, That sounds nice, I can see why you'd like that, and then stop.  No questions (how do you expect to afford it?), no warnings (you'll be far away from family who help you), no offers to help search for a place, no job-hunting assistance.  If they want to change, they need to take the lead.  The same goes with therapy--you can't force them to get therapy, and if you even mention therapy, they're likely to turn it against you and say you're psycho.  Most of all, I think you refrain from doing things that your daughters are capable of doing for themselves.  When you over-function for them and start to feel resentment, that's a sure sign that it's time to change what you're doing.

Please don't feel guilty about leaving your daughters.  If they are old enough to have kids, they are old enough to take care of themselves.  You deserve a life too you know.  Sure, they know how to press the Guilt button on the Mom ATM/babysitting machine.  You just have to disable that button. 

This was going to be her and I alone. That just isn't safe, to me. I know what she's capable of.

I'm not sad and angry everyday. And my boss came into my office and said they'll work with me but there may be a time we need to collaborate with just us...but that's a no. Strangely she said she doesn't foresee it soon as our roles are not related to each other at all. But given opportunities that may change.

I understand the whole forgive and all, and I'm in that mindset with other exes, even those who cheated on me. With her I just don't WANT that. You can't be telling coworkers I've hit you. You can't call the police on me in my own home saying you don't feel safe or I'm scaring you. Domestic violence is a huge thing in my state, and as my sister, a cop said, at the very least I'd be detained during their investigation. If she lies more, things get bad. If she gets a restraining order, I won't be allowed to even live in my own home since she lived there. She could have ruined my life, COULD have.

I've moved on quite well and have navigated this well regarding no-contact. I simply don't want to see her. And there is absolutely no business need as everyone including my boss has said.