therapists operate on so many different feels that they get about us, past clients, etc.

have you communicated this, directly?

you are carrying something that no parent should ever have to hold. not just your daughters pain, but the unbearable knowledge that she wants you to help her die. thats beyond heartbreaking. its terrifying. and it’s incredibly isolating, in a way few people will understand.

what you’re doing - staying present, staying in contact with her, not turning away - is helping, even if it doesnt feel like it.

it sounds like your daughter is using the language of assisted dying because it gives shape to something that otherwise might feel totally formless: her hopelessness. sometimes when a person feels beyond saving, they start imagining ways to end the pain that still feel relatable, still feel conceivable.

the part where she asks you to hold her hand - i wonder if that’s not just about the death, but about needing to feel held in a way she hasn’t felt in a very long time.

has she ever talked about what she imagines would need to happen for her to want to stay alive? not in a “snap out of it” kind of way. but has she let you see any part of her that still wants connection, still wants something to change?

dont think of it as us telling you what to do  

all the literature will tell you "validate, validate, validate".

it will tell you bpd makes for a special needs relationship. that it requires a great deal of skill to manage this kind of relationship. its right.

with that said, i think its usually easier to think in terms of "dont be invalidating" than "validate".

the idea being, if youre not being invalidating, you are most likely being validating. you have the presence of mind to know when to actively validate.

its more important to grasp validation as a life skill, as a tool in your tool belt with the rest of them, than to try to use it to resolve every conflict. members get called out by their partners for this more often than not, because we tend, at first, to try to use it more as magic words to get someone to calm down, than to actually hear what is valid behind what theyre saying. that has its own way of being invalidating. people with bpd traits tend to communicate their needs, they just tend to pick maladaptive, destructive, and/or hurtful ways to get them across, because they generally dont have the skills, and are apprehensive about neediness, to communicate them. that is why empathy is so important. its why building a validating environment for your relationship is important. you validate whats valid between all the extremes.

so, youre burned out. it sounds like youve practiced a lot of patience in this relationship, yet things are still out of control.

whats going on? you say this is happening daily: whats behind it?

Thank you all for your thoughtful and supportive comments.  It feels like I am wading through quicksand, working to stay above ground but darkness is pulling me downward.  I keep re-reading your posts to clear my head and find my way forward.

It turned out my daughter had a therapy appt scheduled for Monday morning that she didn't realize, as she thought the T had terminated her.  She went to the appt, and ended up cutting it short because (as she told me) her therapist couldn't help her with what she needed (to die).  So they have ended their contact.  DD said that the T said she would contact her supervisor to see what else they could offer, but DD is not interested.  I have left several messages with the therapist, with no return call.  I'm going to try the supervisor next.  This is unusual, because her past therapists have always returned my calls especially when they felt her safety was at stake.

I agree with this. And I do want to be there for her,  just not in the way she wants. The fact that she is drawing me into this is tearing me to pieces.  I don't even want to reach out because I fear that it will turn into another emotional cascade of heartache and pain for us both.  Last call, she was trying to talk about who could care for her two cats when she's gone.  I told her I couldn't do this.  She pushed back and told me it was the least I could do.  She flips from needing me to hating me and back again within minutes.  I'm trying to stay calm and focused and hold my boundaries, and I'm beyond exhausted.

She said she wanted to have a new therapist, "because it's nice to have someone to talk to every week" and I agreed to help her find someone.  But she's asked me to do this in the past and when I've offered options she has shut them all down.  So I'm going to try again, which I suppose is the definition of insanity.  Not easy to find someone, as we live in a rural area and there just aren't professionals working with BPD clients. Every call I've made has suggested that I reach out to the Community Mental Health agency she was already working with.  If I'm frustrated with the system, I can only imagine how alone and burdened my daughter feels.  Have I mentioned that she is adamantly opposed to DBT?  I've read that Mentalization-Based Therapy and Schema Therapy are also good approaches, but have yet to find anyone offering these services. 

I wish she would go to a long term in-patient.  Our experience has been that she either is released from the ER because she fakes her way out or she is admitted and stays for 4-5 days in which they take her off all meds, put her on new meds, and send her on her way with instructions to reach out to a therapist within a week of leaving the hospital.  And we get the anger, blame, mistrust, and hate. 

I know how right you are, Pook. She has free will and I'm powerless to make her do anything she doesn't choose to do.  It's her battle to fight.  She is so confused and weak and alone, with no one to advocate for her anymore.  She has alienated her friends (or at least thinks she has, so she doesn't reach out to them), doesn't contact her siblings, and often tells me that she's only contacting me because she has no one else to talk to.  So I feel compelled to do something.

Sometimes I think my own thoughts are just as disordered as hers. 

I don't know how any parent could navigate this nightmare without a strong prayer life.  And yet.  It has become so overwhelming that I forget to lean into the faith that sustains me in all other circumstances.  Thank you for the encouragement.


Thank you for this. 

It's tricky if not unethical to diagnose someone from afar, especially when one doesn't have the credentials.

That said, so much of what you describe rings familiar, I'd say it certainly matches up to some if not many of my own experiences with my ex.

For history, my ex. saw several different therapists -- or so she said -- while we were together. I was able to get her to show me some of the paperwork she had, including diagnoses. Assuming they were authentic and not just something she download from the Internet or something, she had at various times been diagnosed with C-PTSD, anxiety, depression, ADHD, and BPD.

In talking with her, she seemed to confirm what the paperwork suggested, and the cache of medications she had to take matched up.

Of these diagnoses, all of the therapists seemed to confirm anxiety, depression, and ADHD. The rest was waffling on whether she only had that or had C-PTSD or BPD.

I've since read and talked with someone in the field about how many therapists are reluctant to diagnose BPD. There's more stigma to it, the success rates for treatment are lower, and apparently some insurance companies make it a hassle. So, diagnosing PTSD or C-PTSD is easier and more common, even if a therapist suspects the person might actually have BPD.

I say this because even if a licensed therapist ended up diagnosing your partner with one or the other, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what she has. To me, diagnosing, say, C-PTSD instead of BPD when the latter is suspected seems rather unethical, but apparently, there are enough considerations some therapists will, and even then diagnosing a mental illness is something more of an art anyway.

I want to point out, too, that sometimes after a break up with someone with BPD (etc.), we want to blame ourselves in some way. For instance, we might think if we were more patient or understanding or love them more or treated them (even) better and so forth, they wouldn't have left or cheated or lied to us or whatever. That's just not true. That's like blaming ourselves because a volcano erupted.

There's no way to predict how someone with BPD (etc.) is going to act on any given day. You certainly didn't wake up one day and expect your partner to break up with you. Whatever caused that was in her head. Likewise, you could do everything right and they'd still end up in the same bizarre place.

The wild card is how some people with BPD are able to get into long term relationships that, at least from the outside, seem more stable. Unless they get intensive therapy and work hard on it -- and even then -- such appearances are deceptive. There is great turmoil going on behind the scenes.

So, as you research things and try to piece together the events that happened and why, just keep in mind you're unlikely to ever get all the answers. Some of the answers you get will be wholly unsatisfying -- she's just mentally ill. It's that simple and that complicated. If you think you did something wrong, work on it, but don't beat yourself up otherwise. And even if it turns out she does have BPD (etc.), that's not likely to give you all of the insights you might be looking for. But if you keep in mind if she's mentally ill, she's operating in a different reality, you might feel better.

I think you're very right to question this, and it's positive to see you are setting boundaries. That's something I didn't do well. I thought I was being a good partner, didn't look after myself, lost myself, and we ended anyway. What I’ve learned is that supporting someone you love matters, but you can’t do it well if you’re depleted. You matter too and you need to look after yourself.

This is inevitable.  And I often feel I may be preventing it.  Last week she ran off, and I fully let her so that she face consequences for her actions.  And she did for about 24 hours.  But then the police told me if I did not come and get her they would arrest her for trespassing implying that she was my responsibility - I went and got her.  Had she been arrested - I dunno - I think she would have blamed it on others' actions rather than look at her own.  Plus, she had our dog with her, and I was also concerned for the dog.

I was doing much better dealing with her by doing the things you mentioned, but last week was a real wakeup call that someone could seriously get hurt or killed.  My T reiterated to me that goal #1 is safety for the kids and for myself. 

In short, last week's event was the most serious in the 12 years I have known her in terms of safety for her and for those around her.  Without going into details, her behavior set forth a chain of events that led to an accident that could have killed my parents.  It's now gone beyond me and the kids to affect extended family in a way that that may be irreparable.  Until now, I trusted that she would voluntarily seek out resources if she knew things were bad.  Now I know that isn't true.

My wife's family knows all about her issues, but maybe not to the depth.  They are well aware of the issues when she was a teenager and early 20s, but maybe not that the issues continue to today.  They definitely would support my perspective, and I fully expect that when I visit them they will ask me privately what is going on. 

Hello PP, I am in a similar quandary and struggle and can relate & empathize with your situation. I haven't figured any way out and am continuing to live in a dilemma on handling my own emotions. In my case I chose to forget the affair happened and specific details after any months of struggle however very time my pwBPD splits they bring up the affair in detail to torment me and also blame me as the reason for the affair.

It seems your father may give into your brother because he is afraid of him. If you stand up to your father, he may cooperate more with you even though your goal is not to intimidate him.