Hi Movieman-

I absolutely believe you’re on the right track here.  I also read your other post and have to say that I am so so sorry for the emotional distress and torture your wife is putting you through.  You do NOT deserve to be abused in this manner.  Not at all. 

And please don’t call yourself a narcissist.  Nothing in your writing indicates you have any of the hard narcissistic traits.  I’ve been in two LT relationships, totaling 26.5 years with BPD/NPD men (confirmed), so yep, sadly I have experience there.

It takes so much focused work to heal from childhood sexual and other abuse.  I understand firsthand.  I am a woman, now 68, and I can tell you that the visions and feelings periodically haunt me to this day.  Healing is a lifelong journey and you cannot give up on yourself or allow ANYONE to block your path, including the person you marry.  And your chosen person should be THE person who keeps that healing path clear for you, who walks it with you.

You have obviously learned to give love freely and with all of your heart, but if you find that she is breaking your trust, that love will falter…and she will lose you.  She is the one who needs to be cautious here.  Her careless name-calling is just reckless, in my opinion…especially with her knowing what you’ve been through.  And you ARE correct, I think.  It’s a power play. A “narcissistic” power play to keep you down and set you back.  She’s the one showing those traits, not you.  I’m kind of angry right now, especially at the mentioning in your other post where she was indicating using your kids in a threat against you..  Sorry.

She is not all powerful.  No one is.  Anyone can read psychology books and then parrot what they read and point fingers so they don’t have to look at themselves or reflect on their own behavior.  Does she or Has she ever reflected on her own behavior?

Something I’ve noticed that has puzzled me over the years - how some people do this separation of BPD from the “person”.  I was never able to reconcile that separation because their behaviors were so woven into everyday life - so much tippy toeing around to be sure the explosions didn’t happen.  Maybe it’s different with disordered men?So many things were so erratic and unpredictable at times.  I don’t know…I lived in a state of anticipation for so many years.

In the end I learned I could not love someone to wellness.  It was so sad.

I’m sorry for so many words.  But please, I know your inclination is to blame yourself.  Not this time.  No.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Hi Casablanca and welcome here.
Your pain, exhaustion and aloneness calls out from every word of your post. You are completely drained in every possible way. I understand your not talking – I had the same experience many years ago – trying to explain to people who have no idea of what BPD looks like. I found people thought of it as normal teenage stuff and tough love was the answer.

At that time I didn’t understand BPD either and so I used to try some of their suggestions – and the results were not good.

I am really impressed by your headnote:   How can I feel stronger so I can free myself ?

For much of the time as carer, the focus is on the other person -but there does come a time when we have to shift that focus.  The step you have taken in posting here is enormous – don’t underestimate how much it means to post exactly how you feel.

It’s a big first step away from ‘Slavery and abuse and heartache and hurt.’

The 4 things you mention are connected: The slavery – at the beck and call of another – and the abuse – devalued and blamed for everything – mean living with constant heartache and abuse.

One of the first steps I took was to do with the abuse and blame. Coming here was the best thing because I read that other people were blamed too – so I was seeing what BPD IS on a day to day basis. I looked at myself, realised I had the done the best I could at any point in time – and those words were NOT going to land on me. I told my DD I was not going to respond when she started ‘picking on me’ was/is the phrase I use to her – because it made it worse for her.

Then I began freeing my mind from so much of what was happening. My mantra when I was/as totally anxious is ‘I didn’t cause this, I can’t control it, I can’t cure it’. In other words I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE – a big thing for me because I wear the ‘responsibility hat’ all my life.

I used my imagination to let the words fly past me like cricket balls. I took myself mentally to another place when times were bad.

I found small spaces for time outs physically – stopping for a a coffee on way home from shopping instead of rushing back to DD. Making a small place outside to sit even for a few minutes.

These are such small things really but in my experience starting with small spaces that are for me was very important. The most important thing for me though has been the mental freedom by letting go of responsibility.

It seems as though you have been responsible all your life. I can only pass on that for me the letting go of responsibility was the key. Not much else has changed in my life in practical terms, but I love my DD I am there for her, I am not responsible for her and I put my mind to other things – I feel free.

It took a while – and this is just my story. It may not be the right path for you. But you will find a way – and coming here is the start of a new path.

How did I survive the break up. It is more like surviving. It’s a constant process, it doesn’t just go away, or stop. There is always rumination.

So, how am I surviving. Well, it’s a case of having to. The discard was quite brutal, I’ve written about it on here. My first step at survival, I threw myself into my work. As I mentioned above, we had switched roles and I went from full time work to part time with the bulk of the child care fairly early on in our relationship, from when our first child was about 2 years old. They are adults now, but while I increased my work load my wife would try and stop me working on her days off so I would be with her and she wasn’t at home on her own. Or I would have clients that were wealthy and because she was jealous would try and make me stop working for them, so that was the first struggle…. Building my customer base back up and earning enough to be able to live. I’ve had to start from square one pretty much and at times it is still a struggle.

Second step was to get out and do things, socialise, re start hobbies that had been shelved because of my wife’s hatred of me doing things that didn’t revolve around her. To see more of my family and friends as they had been neglected for similar reasons as to why my work had been neglected. Seeing those friends and family helped, because every single one of them told me how badly they thought she treated me. That’s not just my friends and family, but hers too. The first thing my father in law said to me was that his daughter didn’t deserve me, and I wouldn’t take her back if I were you. The first thing her sister said was haven’t I stopped to think how much better off I would be without her because she treated me like sh*t

So I guess the follow on from that is stopping to think more clearly. When you are fully committed in the relationship you can not do that. Your judgement is clouded and you become blind to it. They say love is blind and I suppose I and a lot of us on here are testament to that. Writing about it helps. Going back and looking at the relationship retrospectively from the beginning and realising what you have written, if it was a friend that had told you this was his/her life, what would your advice be.
Joining this forum and seeing that I am not alone. I didn’t even know what bpd was throughout my marriage, but after telling my story on a forum for people affected by partners suffering drug/alcohol abuse and being told by several people my wife is a narcissist, I researched and found out about bpd which I think the description better fits my wife, and I can certainly relate to a lot of things people have written on here. Many times I come across a post and think I could have written it word for word.

Where am I at now. It is about 2 years and 2 months since we split up, because my wife left me for a guy that was selling her drugs. A guy that was married to one of her best friends, that had been left because of his own toxic behaviour. I’d spent many months feeling as though I was the victim, but that mindset has now changed. I now see my wife as the victim of her own mind. I see her boyfriend as the victim of her behaviour. Less than a month after the discard, after being with her new boyfriend she was sleeping with me behind his back and that carried on for a year until I decided to get off that rollercoaster ride, and realised she respects absolutely no one.

Two months after that discard, when I was getting out socialising, I met a woman. A beautiful, kind, funny and far more stable woman. 14 months after meeting her we started dating. We both knew it was inevitable, but both knew I needed to heal first. That was 9 months ago. It’s not without its challenges that comes with us both having kids and living apart, but we love each other and our relationship is easy. It’s natural, it’s relaxed and calm, it’s normal when we have both been used to turbulence.

So, I am in a better relationship. I have made many new friends. I get out and do more. I can live my life, and not the life of a suppressed codependent and trauma bonded man trying to appease someone that is in effect mentally ill. It’s complicated, there is more to it than what I’ve just written, and some days can still be bad, but I know those days are by far outweighed by the good days now.

Hi again,

I agree with your therapist and would avoid anything that sounds like a diagnosis.  If your son hears, "I think you need therapy," he will probably hear, "I think you're mentally ill, you're sick, you're damaged, everything is your fault, I don't love you and can't support you because you're messed up."  Besides, nobody wants to hear that you think they're mentally ill, even if they are.  The victim attitude might kick in, and you'll start to hear accusations/blame/projections:  "You abused me, it's your fault, you're toxic, you're the sick one."

The few times I've touched on therapy with the pwBPD in my life, I've made sure not to make it about her, but to generalize and make it about the environment, and to "normalize" therapy, something along these lines (but adjusted for a male audience):

*Therapy is a mental tune-up.  Everyone could benefit from getting a tune-up from time to time.

*Therapy might be worth a try, because there's no downside, really.  The upside is learning some stress management skills.

*An executive therapist could provide a playbook of stress management skills that would be helpful to call upon when situations arise.

*Therapy can be an important part of a fitness regime.

*Mental fitness is just as important as physical fitness, and therapy can help with that.

*A therapist is just like a trainer, but focussed on overall mental fitness and well-being.

*Doctors are professionals, they know how to help, they've helped countless people cope with stress and trauma.

*Sometimes life seems overwhelming, and lots of people use a life coach to support them.

*I think therapy could be a fantastic investment in personal growth.

*Getting therapy is an option when people are facing increased stress, such as a new job.

*There are all sorts of therapeutic treatments to help people navigate today's fast-paced / always-on world.  Learning to fine-tune one's coping skills can be worth it.

*I think going to a therapist is no different than going to any other type of doctor.  If someone's not feeling good, they get the help they need so they can perform at their best.

With BPD, it's important to pick the right moment for this sort of "nudge"--when your loved one is calm and seems open to talking; in other words, not when he's raging or showing signs of distress.  It can feel like walking on a tightrope sometimes.  But I think a few well-chosen words in the right moments might help nudge in the right direction.  I think pwBPD deal with a lot of shame issues, so anything that reduces the shame factor around therapy might help.

Rowdy how did you survive the breakup?

She is functional with bills and other things but she can act clueless and offended when I suggested a timer for Xmas lights asking what a timre is and saying I have no problem just pressing a button.

I understand bpd is a wide range of characteristics and what I described is small tiny snippet of what ive experienced Im trying to keep to the subject of this forum post "house chores".

Here is a chore example. Before i put myself back in therapy I had adhd tendencies (a symptom of abuse by the way) of starting projects and not finishing them. My wife would be upset about all the things I started and didnt finish and how scatter brained i was. After returning to therapy and getting on my current anxiety medication I have found my focus and can start a project and finish it through.

I was vacuuming floor mats and had 7 of the 8 completed. I was so close to finishing when my wife comes out with a puzzled upset look and says to me "good job". I just say thank you knowing something is off and continue to try to finish. She goes back inside but 5 min later she comes out and repeats "good job but you are stuck on one mat and are vacuuming nothing". She ignored all the other cleaned mats on the porch. My response was to turn off the vaccum pack it up and I say "im going for a run". I worked out instead of blowing up.

There are years of examples and im tired.

I wish you the best with this. I understand it's difficult to hold a boundary like this.

It's good that you are starting CODA face to face. I did this with CODA and ACA. Your daughter may wish to do ACA one day too. It was a different approach than counseling- I thought both counseling and 12 steps were helpful in their own way- and did both.

Getting a sponsor and also going to groups is most effective and you will get more out of the program if you do that. A sponsor takes you through the steps on a one on one basis. Mine turned the mirror on me, made me look at myself. It was tough love. Not comfortable. But since we can only control ourselves, it's effective.

She also was a support to lean on when trying to hold a boundary, dealing with push back and flying monkeys. I suggest going to group for a while and seeing who is a seasoned member- someone you can relate to and then asking them to sponsor you. These are lay person groups. Some members have their act together better than others. You can see this after going to sessions for a while.

Thanks all, I appreciate the reality checks. I think you’re right, there’s definitely an element of denial. Even at this stage, with all that’s happened and all that I’ve witnessed, there are  times where I look through a lens of thinking there’s some level of normalcy. That’s the trick sometimes isn’t it? Our partners aren’t like this 100% of the time. Much of the time they can see perfectly normal and balanced.

I know it’s not most realistic to cohabitate. I guess I’m scrambling for every answer or option. The more I think about it, I don’t know if I could sleep at night.

I’m gonna do the thoughtfully and carefully and try to get my finances together, it just might mean many months of savings… in the meantime, I’ll continue to be strategic in planning, documenting, and meeting with professionals. I’m also restarting CODA. I was doing online meetings and actually found an in person meeting near me.


NW - you’re absolute right and I fear our finances would continue to be ruined by my uBPDw. I’ve been complicit for years, she’s had no problem with not having savings, continuing to raise debt. I feel a little sick how far I allowed things to go. And you know what she said to me recently about the debt, the tens of thousands of dollars we have in debt. It’s a lot. She said we’ll just wait for mortgage interest rates to drop and then refinance the house to pull money out to pay off the debt! I’m embarrassed to admit we already did that once. It wasn’t as much dead as we have now, but it was a really stupid financial mistake to put credit card debt into a mortgage. Now our mortgage payment is higher and we’re paying way more interest on that debt. Plus, obviously spending patterns didn’t change because we just got more debt. Like I said, I can’t put 100% blame on her I was complicit. I would raise the alarm bells often, we can’t afford this. We’re putting money out of savings, our debt is too high. Nothing phases her. It’s all about living for now.


Anyway, the new year will be interesting because I’ve never implemented financial boundaries like this. It may be enough for her to split me… Can’t wait for the flying monkeys. She likes to recruit her family. Same things like I’m controlling or restricting access to money, etc.

In your partner's defense, she isn't wrong either. It makes sense that someone in a long term relationship would want to be married and it would feel hurtful to be in a relationship with someone who didn't want to marry them. Two adults can decide to maintain separate households and not combine their lives in marriage- if this suits both of them. You aren't "wrong" to have it the way it is now. Neither of you are "wrong" to want what you want.

The issue is that she wants marriage and you don't, or you are unsure. Your parner wants to know where this is going. At some point in any relationship the decision- where is this going- is going to come up. It's ideal if both want to be married but if one or both don't- then there's a decision to make. It seems this is where you are at.

As to the kids, they will decide accordingly. In my situation, my parents were married and BPD mother was my biological parent as well. The decision was already a given- they were a pair. Any event that included my father was with both of them.

However, even without family disorder, grown children eventually make decisions to have their own holiday traditions. Some may have to compromise between two sets of parents- one holiday with in laws, one with their parents.

Pook mentioned forgiveness and compromise- and these are a factor, but all adults have choices to consider when planning a holiday. I assume your partner is not your children's mother and so they may not be as inclined to compromise while the two of you are not married. If you do marry her, then they will have their own decisions to make about including the two of you or neither of you.

BPD mother required more attention and patience during family get togethers. I could also tell a difference in my father when she was present (on some other occasions when we were with just him). It wasn't that we didn't like who he was, it was that he was more relaxed when the focus wasn't on my mother as much.

Sometimes we did choose to get together just as our own family. It wasn't that we were excluding anyone or wishing to be hurtful, we wanted our own get together.  All grown children sometimes make these choices even when there isn't disorder.

As I mentioned before, your dilemma isn't as much about the children as it is about you. They don't decide who you love or who you marry or not. You do- and you are on the fence about this. That they have concerns about her is also significant but the choice is about you- and what you want, and your own reasons for being hesitant.

My wife was the same, her understanding of the body, how she could read her own body and her ability to be able to tell if someone she knew had a serious underlying illness was quite uncanny.

I was quite ill once, nearly 15 years ago. I had a sudden collapsed lung and was taken to hospital by ambulance while my wife was out hiking with her mother. I was in a pretty bad way and was in hospital for a month, but the first time she came into the hospital gave me such a torrent of abuse I actually wanted her to be removed from the hospital, but for the following month, after an operation that didn’t go to plan and led to the onset of septicaemia her understanding of the body and the way she fought with my surgeon probably saved my life.

After we separated I had a motorcycle accident, I wasn’t badly injured, broken rib, wrist and a few abrasions, but the scans picked up a few problems, a tumour on my pelvis and another on my adrenal gland (which produces the stress hormone… funny that!) and possible emphysema from my historical lung problems, and every time I got an appointment through for the hospital she would insist on coming with me.

Even after getting with my current girlfriend if she knew I had a hospital appointment she would message me asking if I wanted her to come, but would promptly delete the message, which is a little odd. Maybe it’s a heroic impulse, a sense of purpose, or something to make them feel a little less empty and numb.

Possibly. Certainly something I experienced when my wife was at home and I worked full time. I’d come home and the pile of washing that she put in the kitchen in front of the larder cupboard would grow to over 6 foot while she got stoned and drunk. I complained and did something about it and she didn’t like it. So in the end it worked better when she worked full time, leaving me to work part time and do all the chores, cooked the dinner, bathed the kids and put them to bed and so on.

She can work and runs her own business and can do this very well, but at home she just switched off and did nothing, couldn’t pick her clothes or towels up off the bathroom floor behind her, and couldn’t even put the toilet brush down the toilet when she left her mark on a daily basis….. disgusting.

She would even go off on one if she came home and I was vacuum cleaning the house, because she didn’t like the noise, or the smell, but mostly because it meant I was doing something and all attention wasn’t on her.

Of course when the discard came I apparently never cooked for her, and did nothing. Life at home with just me and our son is much easier without her, my household chores has decreased significantly now I am not clearing up after her.