So, I'm gearing myself for my conversation with my son on Sunday regarding my not giving him money. Hopefully he will be available. My therapist said it's best to have this conversation in person. That can be challenging with him especially if he senses I want to "talk" with him. I've been keeping it casual.
Notwendy- I'm definitely holding onto the image of a toddler tantrum when Mom says no more cookies.
CC43- I will slow walk and be mindful of my feelings and needs.
Zachira- are you saying that a pwbpd can't express happy feelings or call and say, "just calling to say hi and see how you're doing. And when asked how they are they say they're doing great. I agree this is rare at least the great part but is it all manipulation? Do they not have the capacity to care at times  w/o strings?
 I'm truly not trying to be challenging. I really want to understand this illness.   Thank you guys

Yeah I get it. So I'm working on myself. Honestly I respect the block. She did it because I didn't respect her boundaries. Our communication is necessary because we are selling a house, that's why there's a 3rd party. I don't get why she'll send me stuff that's really unnecessary though. But I'm basically working on respecting the boundary 100%, the spirit of the boundary, which means no response unless required.

If you are blocked, presumably from contact with your ex, then accept that.  Sadly, the relationship, as dysfunctional as it was, is over.  What next?  Reset your focus.  Now is the time for you to take care of yourself.

About being blocked... On the day of my separation, before the two year divorce, she blocked my email account.  Because we had a small child there was a prolonged custody and parenting disagreement for years.  So our contact was necessary, unlike your situation.  We communicated through phone calls and texts.  To this day my email, so far as I know, is still blocked from her account.  I was okay with that.  It was no big deal.  My focus was henceforth on my child and me.

The announcement on airplanes before every flight highlights a theme we embrace here.  "In case of an emergency, first put on your own oxygen mask before helping others."

If divorced, blocked, 3rd party set up, but still logistical redundant pings come in?

Relationship moved fast. We bought a house together after 5 months of dating. We got married within a year of dating. We moved states and sold our house and bought a new house within a year of being married. I was more avoidant in the relationship. She was anxious and year one of dating and year one of marriage was filled with her pushing long emotional talks, trying to control how I showed up, her anxiously showing up. Constant projects to build a business and farm. A lot of nuances. But that's the gist. Year two of marriage there was a shift in her but I didn't catch it because it was nice not to be pressed into emotional talks for four hours 2-3 times a week. She was lonely here too, no friends. I wasn't showing up for her, concerned for her emotions, I was selfish, so BPD or not, I see where I went wrong. We had a lot of fights, I was emotionally reactive, but also more often than not, unreactive. She had been diagnosed with bpd, which was later switched to ADHD and cpstd. So come December 2025 we had perhaps our worst fight ever. Five days later she tells me she's divorcing me. Two weeks later we are signing separation papers. I was willing to give it to her, but I started learning as much as I could. Immediately after the papers are signed, her boundary, no emotional talk. Two weeks later she leaves town, back from where we came. Two months later we are divorced. She did a freezer spell on me before leaving which I found recently. After separation, even after divorce I chased, she confirmed her boundary over and over, only to break it to say she didn't trust me or I hurt her. A lot of push pull, redundant logistics, until we eventually ended up at a near full block, with a 3rd party set up. I still get occasional redundant 3rd party logistics. A lot of nuance to all the in-between but this is the main gist. So I'm basically ignoring anything that doesn't require a response.

Hi again,

If you try to discuss with your son why his treatment of you has hurt you, I think two things happen:  you bring the focus to your feelings (instead of your son's), and he takes everything as criticism, supersized:  he views whatever you say as an indictment of his very character.  Maybe you can find the perfect moment and the perfect words while addressing him, but my guess is there's a high risk that he'll take things the wrong way.  If anything, raising your "issues" will be "proof" that you're a toxic parent.  My pwBPD would likely flip the script and blame me for "provoking" her.

I confess, I'm a big believer in actions over words, in doing over feeling.  I think I've had better success giving my pwBPD "adult time outs" when she's acting out.  If she's merely in a sour mood but otherwise doing what she's supposed to be doing, then I don't pay much attention to the mood, I pay attention to the action.  I confess, my husband is different--he's more concerned about his BPD daughter's moods, and whether she appears to be "happy."  An example might be, he'll say, "How are you doing?" and she'll reply with a passive-aggressive scowl.  He might try to address this:  "I don't deserve to be treated that way, I'm your father . . . " and it usually ends up badly.  However, my opinion is that moods are mostly transitory, but actions stay with us.  If my BPD stepdaughter responded to my "Good morning" with a scowl, and yet she went on to work, or cleaned up her room anyway, then I'd focus on the action.  I'd think, well, she's clearly not happy, but at least she's doing what she's supposed to be doing.  Nobody likes chores or going to work, and that's OK.

Now if there's a hostile action, like yelling, threats, ridiculous accusations, throwing things around, my first response is usually an attempt to calm things down.  But if they're having a meltdown, then I typically give them a time out.  I don't usually tell them this; I just withdraw.  The consequence is, if there's bad behavior, I'm not rewarding it with my attention, and I'm not "fixing" the purported problem either.  The message is, I'm giving them space to self-soothe and deal with intense emotions themselves.  There's no use tackling a problem when they're dysregulated anyway.  Later, if they want my advice, then they can ask me for it.  But I'm not fixing things for them, because you know what?  I CAN'T fix their problems.  I can't get them a job, make friends for them, wave a magic happy wand, boost their self esteem, take away their pain, change their thoughts, make them get exercise, fix their spending habits, change their living situation, do therapeutic work for them, prevent them from abusing drugs or alcohol . . . these are things they have to decide to do for themselves.

If anything, I think the "help" I provide is that of "reframing" situations in a more positive light, and focusing on process more than feelings.  I know, this approach is probably the opposite of the general advice to validate feelings.  But you know what?  I've found that validating feelings too much tends to increase the dwell time.  As an example, take a stalled job hunt.  I could say to my pwBPD, "It must be extremely frustrating for you, trying to find a job and not getting any offers.  You think it's hopeless, but that's normal."  The thing is, I think my BPD stepdaughter gets "stuck" wallowing in negative thought patterns.  She actually prefers to throw herself a months-long pity party, as it's a distraction from what she should be doing, an excuse to give up!  She'll blow things out of proportion, while resisting taking responsibility--she hasn't applied for jobs in the last month, and she's too picky about the type of job she wants.  I guess my approach here is not to "indulge" the pity party, but rather attempt to re-direct and focus on actions.  My approach is more like, "This situation is just temporary.  You'll find something if you keep looking" (note the action-consequence reference!).  Then I'll try to create a to-do list with her, focused on process:  researching job titles, completing applications, preparing for interviews, exploring an online course, volunteer work in her area of interest, contacting alumni in her area of interest, researching companies, etc.  In other words, instead of entertaining negative emotions ("I'm never going to get a job, it's hopeless, I have no skills, nobody wants to hire me, my life is over, it's too hard), focus on actions.  Basically I try to help create a realistic checklist, together with her.  I know I often get pushback, because what she really wants is pity, indulgence and money . . . and yet, she also knows that I give advice with her best interest in mind.  She just has to be ready for it.  I'm patient.

Hi Hurt FIL,

Your story is unfortunately very famliar with many of the grandparents on this board. Iam the maternal grandparent. My udd has 3 children. I practically helped raise my first 2gc as udd was a single mother and b/f had no family, and then I was totally cut out of their lives the same week  she met her new partner. Since meeting I have neither met him, his family or my 3rd gc  that they have together. My udd has also cut off members of my family including her own siblings who have questioned her decision regarding not allowing me to see my gc. When asked for an explanation about why she is keeping the gc away from me apparently udd has become really angry and refuses to discuss it. I myself have tried and had the same reaction.

I applaud your son for doing his research on Bpd. I also applaud your DIL for being open with her diagnosis and her willingness to work on this by going to therapy, I think is a great step in the right direction.

I came to this board with very little knowledge many years ago when my udd was a teenager and my life was being turned upside down. I have more knowledge now but it still doesnt make it  any easier especially when there are gc involved. I had high hopes that becoming a GP that udd would become more mature  and it would bring us closer but it has had the opposite effect. What it did was to trigger a power and control dynamic where  I was either being used constantly for babysitting(so much so I couldnt tell her when I had days off work) or I was constantly being berated that I was a failure as a GM if I didnt do exactly what she said when she said it. There was never any please or Thanks or show of appreciation, but instead a lot of jealousy when GC showed me love.

I think you should also take comfort in knowing that there will another set of eyes out there in your DIL's family to keep an eye out for your GC. My advice would be to try to keep things friendly between your famillies as DIL will try to breakdown any communication you may have between you due to her paranoia. I would also advise to try not to get too caught up in your son and DIL's relationship as this rollercoster may go on for quite a while and taking on so much stress  can affect your mental health. I have been there.

I would try to give advice to a minimum if at all. Being there to support your son is what is really needed and to take each day as it comes as things may be ever changing while also remembering to take care of yourselves in the process because this situation is ultimately out of your control.

Thank you so much.  All these posts have been life savers for me. Can anyone please advise if there's ever a time you can discuss with your adult child your experiences of how they're treating you or do you just leave it alone?

As we discussed on your other thread, it is so heartbreaking and counterproductive for a parent to be far more interested in their child's recovery than the child is. Being taken and in and happy for the temporary show of the child seeming to be better is all a part of this. How to respond when your child calls with the so called good mood and supposed good news, might be to be more neutral not too happy as I believe in his mind this is just one more sign for him that he can still manipulate you to get what he needs.

.

My BPD mother didn't like my father's family. Still, they remained cordial to her, and we kids were able to spend time with them. So your being cordial, even if it's an act on your part- is in the best interest of the grandchild.

I understand the loss of trust. It's hard to trust someone when they have told stories about you behind your back and behave erratically. As to boundaries- keep in mind they are about you, not the other person. Your DIL doesn't have to be the reason for being cordial however your feelings about her may be. The main reason is the child. The idea of "medium chill" being calm, collected, and not reactive is one way to keep the drama down.