If you can focus on being pragmatic it might help. Tell yourself that the reality is the negative effect on your relationships with others. I know I was conditioned to look forward to the reset between awful scenes, so that I could feel good again, and that it was a fantasy.

I've become used to thinking grey rock, but even last night he found a way to get my attention when he wanted to call one of the grandchildren on a school night. Turned into me listening to griping about how seldom we see them (they live two states away), and that being a grandfather is no fun anymore. Since I didn't engage, he never got around to saying that he can't do anything right, and blaming me.

I don't feel sympathetic toward him because of the stress he's caused me, but I know what you mean about seeing how it could have been. I forget for a minute what he turned my life into being, but I do that less and less.

You have time and the chance to make a good life for yourself and your kids. Looking back and knowing that you did the right thing will help, I think.

First time poster, been reading some of the threads and they hit home with me. I don't know where to start... some background I guess is I am 10 years younger and I was adopted by her parents. I am of no blood relation, I have another sister who has been pushed out of the family as well and I still am unsure as to why fully. There is more to that than I know I believe, but that sister is a pre-curser for how my sister treats me.
- The past few years she has been going up and down on whether she hates me or loves me, she says that she is supportive and wants me happy then she turns around and tells me how I ________ed up or did something wrong
-she constantly loves to remind people, myself included, what all she has done for them and how no one ever does anything for her & No one cares about her or what she wants.
-She will use my other sister against me, saying "you are just like her" when she knows that bothers me.
- I have gotten into a relationship a few years ago and was going to be moving a few hours away so we can be together, she threw a fit and told me how i take advantage of people and how I will just use him and I moved for a man and not for me. She stopped talking to me for about 3 months prior to this because I asked her to talk to a therapist.
    -she thought I was moving to one place, and ended up posting to facebook how she will be moving there for a job, little did she know I was not moving to that area but somewhere completely different.
- I got engaged and she did not like this. She has been with her boyfriend for years and he has yet to propose, so she hates that I am happy. She has this idea I want her life, my other sister wanted her life. So she is kicking us out.
-I told her where the honeymoon was going to be and she freaked out because she had always wanted to go there, the cut of the diamond my fiance was thinking about was the same cut she wanted (I had no input nor clue of either) She wanted to get married in a certain location and thought I was going to do that too, I did not want that at all. We had talked through that and it was okay for a while.
- She drilled me about my fiance's past and I would not give her all of the information or very little because she is not to be trusted with anything or she will blow it up out of proportion, which is leading to why I am seeking advice now.
- It has come to the point I am close to the wedding, there was a hard boundary set with my mother by my fiance (mind you i had little part in) and my mother told my sister... now she has declined to go to my wedding, and I tried to call her to have a conversation, she has told me we need to end communication for a long time, if ever and I had put her in a bad place with HER family and she will not stand for it.
-she loves to use the terms "My family, My mother, My father" to me knowing it hurts because I am not blood.
-My sister has been trying to push me out for years, now my mother is in the middle and I have yet to talk to her about it because I am still too emotional. She will always side with my sister, regardless of knowing how she is. the family will do whatever they need to in order to keep the peace and the more I have stepped back and watched, the more I cannot let this effect my own mental health.
- they now have been thinking my fiance is some woman beater, cheater, creeper... He is none of these things, he has a rough past and frankly I dont think i need to justify my choice of a partner to my family. They need to trust me and my decisions, they dont have to agree but they need to accept.
- My sister has ended contact, which I am completely fine with, the thing that is getting to me is the FOG portion of it and how I feel obligated to my family (parents mostly) to keep a relationship with my sister... i dont know how much longer I can stand it.
-My anxiety is so high when she reaches out to me, or when I feel I have to reach out to her because that was her most recent complaint is that I am isolating myself and I am removing myself from the family, I live hours away, raising a family and trying to become a parent myself. I go there as often as I can without exhausting myself and I talk to everyone as often as I can. I don't understand what to do next or how to navigate this at all.
-Please, any advice or support on this would be greatly appreciated... I am at a loss. I love my sister, I can never have a normal relationship with her, I am afraid if I go NC I will lose the rest of my family like my other sister did.

Thank you

Hi again,

Pook175, I'm sorry you had to deal with all that when your daughter was in her teens. It sounds so incredibly stressful, and scary that it reached a point where you actually had a heart attack. My understanding is that she is more stable now? I'm curious how that happened. I'm also curious if you have any thoughts on why my husband can't seem to keep it together despite attending individual therapy and DBT.

In the interim of my last post, and without any further communication from me, my husband has already sent further letters basically saying he really wants to see the kids and also that he wants to only communicate through letters (ie doesn't want to see them). He also said he is coming up with a written plan for how to see them more (this is common for him - he creates a grandiose plan for the next few months, writes it out in a chart format, does it for a few days and then forgets about it). Whatever the case, his emotions are clearly all over the place. I did send him a letter yesterday, which I assume he has not seen yet, saying that I think the kids would benefit from spending time with him in a structured visit, explained the parameters, and said he can suggest a day/time/place etc. I know you all said my husband could easily not show up etc., and I agree that is very true, but I think my goal here is not to manage him. It's to respond only when he makes appropriate requests, come up with parameters I am comfortable with, and give him the opportunity to follow through. It is then his choice what to do. In the past, my goal was to try to make the meeting work (or whatever it was we were working on). So this is a shift on my end.

Regarding your suggestion of writing a letters expressing my feelings without blaming him, firstly, I think I would only talk about the relationship if he makes the first move. Meaning, says something appropriate about moving forward in this domain. So far, he has said things about the relationship, but nothing that was appropriate or really deserved a response (I don't mean deserved as in owed to him, I just mean something that makes sense to reply to). I would consider your idea of expressing my feelings, but in the past, he hasn't been very responsive to my feelings or "I statements". I used to use them in the beginning of our marriage, and he wasn't even able to process that someone else had a feeling aside from him. Like if he NEEDS A COUCH NOW, it doesn't really matter how I feel about it, it's an emergency!!!! Like call 911!!! And get the couch NOW!!

What are my needs in all this...hmmm...I need him to take the initiative to help himself without me rescuing him or being a part of his chaotic cycle. I can support him and accept him as a person struggling with mental illness, but I need him at the foundation to be responsible for himself. I know this is a tall order, and we can't really control someone else. At minimum, though, I can control if I participate in the cycle. At least I think I can?

That's the crux of it all...who can say how each of us defines love?  That's what it ultimately comes down to, what we're willing to accept to be with the people we care about.

My daughter was in intense DPT therapy for about 2 years and made some massive changes to her outlook on life.  We have repaired our relationship and we're close, but there are times when she gets unstable still and struggles for hours or days.  The big difference is that when she feels that way, she's coming to a dad that she sees an ally who has her best interests at heart.  So I rarely get the explosive anger anymore or the blaming; I sort of see the other side of it as she's trying to work through problems emotionally...which doesn't work.

There's been two occasions over the past few years when she exploded on me and they were ugly.  I won't go into details, but I flat out told her that the conversation was ending and I wasn't going to discuss that sort of thing ever again.  We didn't talk for about two weeks and then out of nowhere, she called and asked if I wanted to join her for dinner that night.  And all was well, she didn't bring up the argument or any of that stuff...she was able to let it go completely.

The second time, she was mad at someone else and she was so worked out of shape, I suggested her seeking in-house therapy.  That made her lose it even more because she said that all the hard work she put in was wasted, it's gone.  But I was still her ally in that moment and I was able to say no, none of it was wasted.  You're having a moment and it will pass, that's all this is.  We got her checked into a residential program later that day and she stayed for less than a week.

Of course, this is my particular situation and not a lot of BPDs ever take therapy seriously.  They have to want it so bad and be so fed up with how they feel, that it feels like the best option.  There's that word again- feels.  It's a double-edged sword but it can work to your advantage once your partner realizes that you're a team and you always have her back.  It's just such a battle getting there when things are bad.

For my daughter, I'd say she's 80% past typical BPD behavior on an average day.  But at least once a month, she'll have a challenging day and who she talks to over that first 24-48 hours will determine how the rest of the week plays out.  If she's around the wrong people, she spirals.  If she sees her therapist or talks to someone who actually has her best interests at heart, then maybe she lets go and resets.  It's all about that reset though, of getting out of that negative loop pattern to move to the next thing.

When my kid does melt down, it's just as bad as it ever was...but there is one exception.  Even then, she can still talk to me as an ally most of the time.  Occasionally she'll say something abusive and I'll have to let it slide, or it gets too bad and I have to walk away.  So there's still that dynamic, even with a "repaired" relationship.  It's just much less often and far less intense towards me.

I have a similar relationship with my ex wife, but that's different because we've moved on and rarely talk anymore.  When we do speak though, I see zero dysfunction and we have productive conversations.

It makes enormous sense to me -- or rather I should say that it resonates deeply with me.  I have been in little contact with my ubpd sibling for the last few weeks and while it is hard, every day I see more clearly how the FOG has been hurting me for years and how I might be able to approach this differently.

Hi again,

I have another off-beat idea to help deal with reading toxic messages from your ex without being triggered as much.  I found that when I worked abroad in a foreign language, the emotional content of any communications was dampened for me.  I was usually more clinical in my understanding of conversations.  There was something about thinking in a foreign language that activated my analytical brain more than the emotional part.

So my idea for you would be to try having your ex's messages read aloud to you, ideally with a foreign-sounding accent, and perhaps in a voice of the opposite gender of your ex.  My email system can read messages aloud to me, albeit in a computer-sounding voice.  Maybe if the message's voice sounded completely different, the emotional content would feel more blunted.  With some luck, you could just focus on the factual/logistical content and feel less triggered.

Another idea for you would be to "schedule" when you deal with stuff from your ex.  An example might be, you check for and listen to messages while driving home from work, making dinner or taking your evening stroll.  Moreover, if you are semi-engaged with a small task, your reaction might feel more blunted.  I did this regularly in my work life, by screening calls from certain family members during the work day.  I found that talking to them during work would be too disruptive to me.  To deal with that, I'd let their calls go to voicemail, and then I'd get back to them during my commute home.  Dealing with them during the commute felt less disruptive and more manageable.  It also helped that it was close to dinnertime, which tended to keep the conversations shorter.

Good luck.

I like reading stories in the forum from people who have BPD partners and who "feel like they made it" because it gives me hope, when I started learning about BPD it seemed like everything was telling me "there is no hope, run away, you will be unhappy forever"

Instead I also need to know that it is not like that sometimes

Yes, I understand it and I understand the importance of addressing it that way. I think that ultimately, it's important to have that type of communication with anyone, even those who aren't pwBPD, but with those who have the disorder (whatever its spectrum) it becomes even more important.

But is it possible to live like this? A life in which, out of love, we force ourselves to be with a person we can't confide in 100%? Or risk our children observing certain behaviors and assimilating them, perhaps developing a dysfunction of their own?

If someone with BPD decides to undertake an individual therapy aimed at emotional dysregulation, how much more regulated can they become? From 100 to... 80? 50? 20? I guess there's no single answer...

I think there are many people like me in this forum who choose to be with a BPD person, but how many can say that their life is satisfying? How many feel they are better people themselves when the pwBPD entered their life? 

Thank you again for your replies

Hi, your question is very clear and I struggled with that as well.  I can remember my ex wife demanding for me to leave, yet when I tried to leave she started hitting me and saying that I wasn't going anywhere.  I handled those situations badly because I had no idea what was happening or what to do.  The problem on my part was applying logic to an illogical argument...I couldn't stay and leave at the same time.  Whatever I did was going to be wrong in my ex's eyes because she was overly emotional and melting down inside.

Over time I've learned to keep it about me and my feelings.  BPDs run on feelings, so they understand them well. 

My go-to opening is something like, "I love you and I don't want to argue.  Let's take a few minutes to cool off."  Notice it's all about me and what I need. 

If I said it differently, it would get the exact opposite reaction that I'm looking for.  For example, "I love you BUT I'm tired of arguing.  You need a few minutes to calm down."  This is blaming her while she's in a state where she can't accept blame because she's already self-destructing and conflicted over so many emotions at once.

Also, there's something about the word "but".  BPDs hate it.  I love you but... I wanted to see you tonight but...  I thought about calling but...  All they hear is what comes after the "but", it's like the first part doesn't even matter even though that's where you're giving affirmation.

That's why my statements have to be about me only while she's dysregulated.  "I love you.  I hate when we argue because it hurts us both.  I'm going to walk away for a few minutes to clear my head."  These are much safer statements because it's focused on what I need to have a productive conversation.

Also, your temperament when you say these things is just as powerful as the words themselves.  If you're angry and say that stuff with anger and judgement in your tone, it will miss 100% of the time.  BPDs will focus in on the negative because they're stuck temporarily thinking that way, they're waiting for doom and gloom so they're searching for it.  You need to speak calmly, patiently and in a soft tone if at all possible.

And hey, you'll mess this up a lot.  I still do.  But at least you have the standard to aim for now.  The most important message to repeat in your daily life is that I love you, I have your back no matter what, I'm not going anywhere and we can work through this together.  That helps the fear and unstable emotions subside, and when things do get bad it's easier to reinforce "I need a break" or "I don't want to argue, I'm here to help".

Sometimes you'll be "perfect" in your delivery and it's still not enough.  That's when you simply walk away, with the promise that you'll follow up soon.  And I agree with what you said, you should always follow up shortly afterwards.  If you don't, then their worst thoughts can continue manifesting.  If you say you're stepping away for 15 minutes or two hours, then try to abide by that.

In college, a counselor suggested I go NC with BPD mother. I tried to do it but it was not possible- because, other people who I wanted to have contact with were connected to her. She and my father were a pair and contact with him would include her. So I didn't actually do it or consider it.

From my own experience, going NC doesn't change the other person. I think the main reason to go NC is for our own emotional well being. If contact with the other person is affecting ones own emotional well being- it's a protective decision. It can be the best decision in some circumstances but not possible or the best decision in others.

For a relationship to improve, we have to do some personal work, but still, if the other person has BPD and is not doing their own therapy, the only thing we can do is our own work. Going NC can give us some emotional space, but it doesn't change the other person.

Also, families exist in a system- and a balance of behaviors with each other. Going NC with one family member might also result in issues with other family members as well. While the concept is to give emotional space, it may increase the drama in other ways.

My own choice (unless the situation is very damaging) with someone with whom we have connections in common is to go LC- manage contact and the emotional content of the communications. Keep in mind that boundaries are about us, not the other person. The goal isn't to change them, it's to manage our part in the dynamics as best we can. One idea is to not be available all the time but have a plan for when to speak- like a schedule. If the person calls during other times, don't pick up or say "we will speak this weekend". These could be smaller "times out", rather than all or none contact.