Hi kind of Alone,

If it helps, I think you did the right thing. You had the opportunity (rightly or wrongly in her eyes) to step in and help your dd.

Of course she will be blaming you right now as to be expected and applying the guilt on you, but where she is now is better than being locked up and hopefully somewhere down the line she will end up thanking you. 

From my experiences, I think the core problem is that the disordered person obsesses over what they think is right over and over again until it feels like there can't be any other sensible outcome.  So you have the conversation, a week goes by, and that person has added 100+ hours of disordered dialogue to what you talked about.

You and I, we think logically and we can recall with fairly good clarity how things happened.  Yet if either one of us really fixates on it, our imaginations could take over and slightly alter important things about our past.  For example, a fisherman telling the story of the one he caught decades ago...that fish just keeps getting bigger and stronger every year.  I think BPD's do that x1000.

How you handle it is anyone's guess, because you can only control your actual part of the conversation.  What happens afterwards, within their mind, makes that last conversation much less relevant and leads to chaos.  That's why you have to keep saying, "Leave my sandbags alone!"  They might remember that comment but after so many hours of illogical self-dialogue, they conclude that's not what you actually meant at all.

Hello everyone. This is my first time writing a post here. I came across this website while googling about BPD and coming across Reddit pages dedicated to family/loved ones who knew people with BPD. After reading just a few posts about other’s personal life experiences and stories, I deeply related to what I read. I had always had so much confusion and question behind why my sister’s personality and behavior was so vastly different not just from me but from almost everyone else I ever met. I feel a strange sense of comfort for the people here who have lived through and understand exactly how painful, exhausting, draining, and frustrating it is to have a sibling with BPD. For context: I’m 26F, my sister is 25F and our mom is 63F.

Backstory: I grew up in an abusive household with my dad as an irresponsible, controlling, angry father and husband. He was physically, verbally and sexually abusive to our mother. While verbally and emotionally abusive to me and my sister. I actually now suspect he may have BPD too. My sister is VERY similar to him. They both blame the people around them for their lives being ruined, they’re both greedy, willing to lie and take from others with little remorse or ounce of gratitude. Growing up together, I understood early on to hide and obey my father, it kept him more or less calm and satisfied and that kept me safe. I had to learn extremely early on how to read his moods and tone. So I never understood why my sister ignored the obvious signs and kept speaking out with her complaints and criticisms of him and our home life. He did come very close a few times to beating her and broke a door or wall as a warning.

I believed for the longest time that we were just two very different people. I was smart, good in school, polite, quiet and learned to perform the role of the golden child. Meanwhile my sister wasn’t doing well in school, would steal money from my parents or my things, was desperate to be part of the popular kids. We’re a Korean-American family, my parents are immigrants though my dad has been here since he was a toddler. My mother came in her 20’s. So the Korean culture was part of our upbringing. I rejected most of it (the mostly vain, superficial parts) while my sister embraced it. Growing up, she was obsessed with comparing her body and face with KPop idols. Daydreamed of becoming one herself or marrying one and becoming fabulously wealthy. I remember at one point she said she was a princess and we had to treat her like one and I laughed because I knew she 100% meant it and it was the most ridiculous thing I’d ever heard her say. (She was 16 at the time)

When we reached high school, our father left the family for his girlfriend in another state and we managed to live in our tiny 2 bedroom 1 bathroom apartment with his financial help from long distance. I’ve currently moved back in there after I was kicked out of my roommate’s family home but that’s another story.

I have gone completely no contact with my father, he doesn’t even know I’m living back with my mom and sister again. I’m working a full time office job, I recently got my first ever car and overall I’m just trying to survive and help pay rent as my mom only gets older and older. However I feel like I’ve reached my limit living with her and my sister. I’ve only been back with them for 1 year and a half.

Overtime, being forced to share space with my sister again has caused me to eventually break my usual non-confrontational demeanor and unleash my years of resentment and uncork the bottled up rage in me. I’ve not been able to control myself when my sister makes a nasty comment, insults me, complains, takes none of my thoughts or words seriously, mocks me and tries to constantly guilt trip me.

She’s also become a hoarder in the time I was gone. She got financial aid money during her time in community college, $10k to be exact, and spent it all on herself. Buying every kind of -- SPAM FILTER ACTIVATED -- cheap product she could find. After growing up in poverty, her response was to spend every last dollar she got her hands on and waste it away filling our living room with garbage bags that got up to the 8 foot high ceiling.

She was with her ex wife during this time as well, but at some point early during my move back in, they broke up. She had guilted this woman into taking care of her. The ex wife was supposedly going into the military and my sister had planned to move across the country with her. Those plans obviously never came true and I could see it happening a mile away. But my sister had deluded herself into believing the ex wife really would take her away from her horrible life. And that by starting fresh she could finally be happy. While entirely taking advantage of this woman and using her. All believing it would happen because she deserved to be taken care of by someone.

I had no sense of how bad it had gotten while I was away. I didn’t concern myself with it either because I didn’t live there and never imagined I would. As selfish as that sounds. I truly believed I had moved on with my life and gotten finally free of my family’s toxic enmeshment.

My sister cannot get along with people long term. Every time she makes a new friend, they stop talking a month or two after. Either because she said something insensitive, or they said something that offended her. She would constantly go from praising and gushing about this friend to saying they were fake and two faced and never that nice to begin with. Once, a friend blew up her phone when she admitted to the friend (a black girl) that she had voted for Trump in the recent election. She didn’t take any of the girl’s feelings into consideration and didn’t understand why she was so angry, and just told me that it doesn’t matter how angry she gets, she didn’t “deserve” to be treated that way. This is just one of many examples of my sister not understanding why I or my mom or anyone else would be rightfully mad with her for saying or doing inappropriate things.

She believes herself to be the true victim in every situation. She tells me and my mom constantly that we abuse and mistreat her. Once, she told me that if she killed herself, she’d name me and my mom in her suicide note. I don’t know if it was some kind of threat or a test but she’d done things like this before. Like hanging this threat of suicide or reminding me of her plans of being euthanized. To show us how drastic her pain and suffering is with her self diagnosed OCD.

I’ve tried to stick by and be here to help my mom. Be a good supportive daughter and look out for her in ways no one else has. But I’ve also realized I’ve reached my limit with living here. And I’m afraid that if I stay too long, me and my sister will end up hurting each other and take it too far. I used to be afraid of the thought of living alone or with roommates, but frankly I would take any of those problems over the ones I have at home right now. I have to take care of myself first and build my own safe space and foundation. Having enough money and being housed are my two biggest concerns. I’m constantly worried of losing both of these things and winding up on the streets (my dad used to threaten me that he wanted to leave us so badly and rub in my face that we would never survive without him).

I just really needed to get this off my chest for the longest time. I’ve been desperate to find people who know what I’m going through and offer me some advice or comfort while I navigate the grief of realizing my sister will never be the person I hoped she’d become with time. It’s so strange to say I still care about her overall wellbeing, as with any person. But I do not like her, as a person on a personal level.

Kind of alone - you did the right thing

Hi there,

I grew up with a "difficult" person in the family, and maybe that's how I learned to tolerate difficult people.  I ended up choosing a career which is notorious for attracting difficult people, maybe because I was used to it?  But even after years of experience, I still had to learn some tricks, especially when I became a manager.  At first, I was probably way too nice, hoping not to bruise any egos and to be liked as a manager.  I thought, if I treated others as I wished to be treated, with fairness, respect and kindness, that surely they would respond in kind.  But that doesn't always work, unfortunately.  Some "difficult" people won't take any hints, and they'll read "niceness" as weakness, as a reason not to respect you.  I think sometimes, you might do better if you speak their "language."  You see, what they understand best is assertiveness.  Instead of bending over backwards so as not to offend, they need to see you as tough and important, as well as intolerant of their baloney.  Now I'm not saying you should to fly off your rocker or do anything dishonest.  But you can be assertive, and I think that sometimes, they respond better to that.  It might be especially tough for women to do, because being assertive / tough is typically viewed as unseemly.  But I think it is more effective with this type of person.

So in your situation where somebody is lying about their authority and making unreasonable requests of you, while violating your rights (e.g. by encroaching on your property without your permission), and when they ignore you when you defend your rights in a civil manner, I think it's OK to speak to them in their own language.  You might have to adopt an aggressive persona, speak loudly and firmly.  I would relish catching them in a lie ("You have no authority over the storage space, you're lying and you know it. / You are trespassing on my property without my consent, and you know it. / If you trespass again, I'm calling the cops and reporting you to the HOA.")  Promptly escort them off your property, turn around and don't give them more attention.

I confess, sometimes I don't have to say a single word.  Sometimes just by standing tall, maybe with my arms crossed, and staring directly at them will succeed in intimidating them.  If they make an unreasonable request (Move the sand), I might say firmly, No I will not--and I won't JADE (justify, argue, defend or explain).  In cases of active trespassing, sometimes what I've done is take out my phone and snap pictures as evidence (including of their car and license plate).  The act of taking pictures will send a strong message, make them feel uncomfortable, and they will usually leave the scene quickly.  Maybe a passive way of doing this is to install a door camera, which might be another option to consider.

Just my two cents.

Hi there,

I'm new here and just thought this might help to get it all out.

For context I started dating a woman last year that I had known as a friend for close to 15 years. We always had a really good connection, a certain electricity between us and we had fun together when we would hang out. I got the vibe that she did have some feelings for me and I even called her out on it once and she said I just thought that was our thing.. When I met her, she was married. When that ended she got together with someone and they stayed together for 10 years. When we started dating she admitted that she did have feelings for me even when she was in the other relationship.

She let me know that she has BPD and tried to explain some of it to me. I didn't really recognize how big of a deal that was and frankly I was avoidant and kept her at arms length. Even though I knew deep down that what we had was special to me. She has taken steps to deal with her bpd too I should add. Therepy, medication. Well, after about 6 months we broke up over something that we in hindsight could have worked out. At that point I was convinced that we just weren't a good match. Months went by and she reached out a few times, but by October she reached out to say that she wanted to give us another try. I still wasn't convinced it was a good idea but I went to her house and our connection was just as strong as ever. She told me she loved me, and I said it back. It just kind of slipped out. In the morning I freaked out and told her me coming over was a bad idea.

The next few weeks she reached out and I didn't respond too much, but I started thinking about it and thought what's wrong with me? Why am I not going for this? She's smart, she's funny, I find her incredibly attractive. This is when I truly realized my attachment style, and that it was okay to be in love with this woman. I called her, and she said that she was doing great, got a new job, exercising a lot, quit drinking, and was seeing someone.. That she didn't think I wanted her. I couldn't believe it, but I know I didn't treat her the way I should have. But still, two weeks later!? She wanted to know how we were going to salvage our friendship. I said I couldn't be friends because I didn't see her that way.

We basically went no contact for two months. Other than both of us wishing each other a happy birthday. On my birthday she posted a selfie on instagram with a song about dangerous love attached to it. (Sleep Token- Dangerous). I knew it was directed at me. (She confirmed that later). She reached out in January, and we spoke on the phone for 6 hours, followed by me spending the night at her house. I told her about my avoidance, the work I was putting into myself, and how much I loved her. We stared into each other's eyes for long stretches. She told me the new guy was perfect on paper but wasn't me. That she missed me and thought of me "too much." It was so great to see her again.

That night she sent me an email that she had written in October after we spent that night together. It's probably the nicest thing anyone has ever sent me. It's full of all the reasons she loves me, how she longs for me, and what she wants moving forward with me. She said how much I challenge her, and that she had loved me for so long. She said I was the whole package.

For the next week she was texting me a bit, telling me she was thinking of me. By the end of the week she sent another email that said that she was clearly not over me, but that she didn't know what to do. Should she leave the guy that had been steady and loving for the past two months or come back to me? That the idea of me abandoning her was terrifying. She said that she had literally been with "my boyfriend" for days before she reached out and did so because she told him that she was falling for him and misunderstood his reaction. She panicked and left, started drinking and reached out to me for a moment of our connection. They worked out the misunderstanding later that night apparently. She didn't expect me to have grown so much and to have such depth of feelings for her. But I also firmly believe that if she did truly love this guy then there would have been no 6 hour call, and no spending the night.

Well, it continued like this for another few weeks until she said that she was going to break it off with him because they just weren't right together. That it was obvious that what we had was undeniable. For the next month things were great. We were seeing each other a few times a week. Dinners. Romantic date night. We drank a bottle of champagne that I had been saving since November for when we got back together. (I had a feeling) We talked about the future some. About meeting family and friends. She did mention though a few times how terrifying the whole thing was. She was scared that I would leave again, or revert back to being so avoidant. She mentioned once too that I was a bit "too much" and we needed to slow down. Right after saying that she went to bed and she took off all her clothes and got into bed with me though.. What can I say? I got caught up in everything with her. I was so happy to have her back in my life, and from a place of vulnerability on my part that I don't know if I've ever shown anyone before.

There were more marathon phone conversations. One was even 8 hours long. It didn't feel like it at all. We never ran out of anything to speak about.

Well, she came over for Super Bowl weekend and it was awesome. I bought the drinks she likes, flowers. I tried to make it comfortable as possible so she would feel at home. We cuddled by the fire, I made dinner, she met most of my friends at a Super Bowl party. It was a really intimate. I can still picture her that weekend in my house. I can't believe I did it but I gave her a key to my house. I know, bad idea. She seemed touched by it in the moment.

The following week she was distant. We did make plans for Friday, and the following day was valentines day. She called me that Thursday and everything seemed normal. We spoke for 4 hours. Friday she wasn't very affectionate and just seemed off. Later that night she admitted that she had been feeling numb. Out of control. And had been splitting a lot. I told her if it was the key to just give it back. She said she didn't know. She canceled our Valentines day plans (she was going to come over and make dinner at my house) saying that she was exhausted and disappointed because she was looking forward to it. I said no problem. That night she texted me a few times. A photo of the dinner she was going to make for us, along with the flowers I had sent her. She said that she was glad that she didn't make it for me because it didn't turn out too well. Later I saw on her instagram that she had posted a sexy selfie along with the photo she sent me with the caption "any excuse to celebrate love." The guy she was dating in November was the top like.. Ouch.

Well she continued to be distant and by Tuesday she said she needed a break romantically. That she needed a break from the intensity. That she felt pressure. But also that she still imagined a future for us and that she wanted it to work out for us but if she pushed it now she knew it wouldn't work. She said that she didn't want to go no contact, that we would check in, in a few days. She reached out 11 days later with a Hey, how are you? I said I was good and that I hoped she was as well. She replied that she was alright. that she had been thinking of, and missed talking to me but didn't know what to say. I suggested we talk soon then. Another month went by and no word.

I'm really trying to not lurk on her social media or anything but last Friday I opened instagram and she's posted a "fresh new cut" selfie. And I got pissed. Not only is she fine without me, she looks like she's thriving. So I canceled the extra member Netflix she added to her account for me, and changed all the passwords of the streaming services she was using of mine. I admit it was a bit reactionary but at the same time we haven't spoken in over a month. She could be back with this guy. Who knows? She once called our connection "foundational" and she's not treating it like it is.

I went to bed that night and woke up to a text that she sent at 5:30 am saying that Hey! I've been thinking about reaching out. You didn't have to cancel the Netflix but I can logout of yours too if you prefer. Miss our conversations. I replied later that night that It's felt weird not talking. That I miss it too. That canceling the Netflix and changing the logins felt right considering where we're at now. She replied later I get it. Makes sense but I wouldn't have just canceled it on you. I didn't reply.

So what I'm sensing is that I've been devalued and discarded. I really saw potential with her, and I know that she did too. Did I scare her away for good? She just seems so cavalier about everything now. She's basically ignoring our foundational connection. She must be happier this way I suppose. What should I do? I don't want to reach out to her to add any pressure, or tell her how I actually feel. I'm sure she knows. I've been hoping by not talking that she would miss me enough to want to repair this.

I want this to work out for us. I don't want her to feel out of control with me. I love this woman so completely. It feels like there is a huge part of my life missing. It's bewildering to be in this spot. The few times she's reached out I've tried to show strength and that I'm fine but it's really got me down. She hasn't mentioned the key, and I haven't asked for it back. I kind of want it to be like the Telltale Heart. I can't stress enough how electric this connection is.

How probable is it that she comes back to me? Is there anything I can do to get her interested in me again? I know the attraction is there, and she doesn't want to slam the door shut on me. Obviously, she hasn't returned the key. I can't tell if she's just indifferent now or just hiding. I'm trying not to think about her but I do, and I miss her terribly. It feels like we have unfinished business between us. I have to imagine that she feels it too. Albeit buried away. A fear of mine is that she sees my love as dangerous to her well being. That I'm a part of her old "out of control" identity. If she's happier with someone else, or just without me around. I'll accept it. I don't like it but I want her to be happy. She deserves it. She is really a wonderful person. I just thought we were more than this, and it doesn't feel like it's over. I'm an idiot..

Thank you to all who read this. I know it's long and complicated but any advice, encouragement, or thoughts are appreciated. Or if something similar has happened to you feel free to post about it here too.

Given what you describe, I don't think it's unreasonable to blow up, but I understand your discomfort with doing that and would say that being firm and blowing up are not the same.  You should definitely be firm and not let her walk on you.

I've noticed for myself that sometimes I need to work myself up to anger in order to be firm (even though I know they don't have to be the same).  I mention in case it resonates for you.

I still feel uncomfortable with being firm with people. It feels as if I am doing something wrong and I agree- it's from our childhood where if we did stand up for ourselves, there were consequences.

If we encounted a disordered person now, we can have similar feelings as with our disordered family member(s).

Tell-Hill,
Condolences on your loss. Oddly, you, Methuen, and I all experienced the passing of our BPD mothers during approximately the past year. I don't think your post is making this about yours. Our situations may have differences but they have similarities.

Condolences from people who had close and loving relationships with their non disordered mothers felt uncomfortable to me at the time. Of course, I knew people were well meaning and expressing condolensces out of kindness, and I appreciated that, but it felt odd to me. I told people who I thought should know, but some friends, who lived at a distance- I didn't tell- not because I didn't want them to know, I didn't want the attention. Maybe also  because I didn't feel the same as they did. We have feelings, but it's hard to define that odd mix of them.

But condolences from people on this board- yes, you all "get it" and so I also send you condolences too.

ForeverDad, I have to keep telling my self I didn the right thing but my goodness it is so hard.  I'm praying so hard she can come back from this.  Thank you.