I think in some situations, a pwBPD can do cruel things. Doing something cruel doesn't specify the exact motive.  Why they would do it, I don't know. I think they have their own emotional issues and project them. I also think they percieve themselves in victim positon and then lash out at whoever they perceive has hurt them, whether it's actually true or not. PwBPD tend to be impulsive. What I think is less likely is that they'd actually be thinking "how can I be mean to ________"? and plan it out. I don't think your BPD child may even be focused on how her behavior affects you, just her own thinking.

Family dysfunction can affect all family members who may behave in dysfunctional ways- not because they intend to necessarily but because this is what they perceive as the "normal" in their family. The pattern can pass down to generations that also replicate what they see as "normal".

What I see in your posts ( and keep in mind, we can't know all of any situation) is that the dysfunction goes beyond your daughter. There seems to be triangulation- daughter- your mother- you. ,and a lot of people communicating indirectly through triangles. Your mother appears to be in rescuer position with your D and also possibly with you. She's the go between. While this is better than no communication, it may also be perpetuating this situation. Your D doesn't have to communicate with you because, she can communicate through your mother.

Other family members also participate in the dysfunction. Your sister and neice as well.

This is hurtful to you. I have been on the receiving end of this kind of dynamic with my BPD mother and her FOO who aligned with her. It's a very hurtful situation. I won't ask you to not be sad about it. That's impossible to not be sad that it's going on.

However, I also think it's possible to not increase the personal suffering from this by - quietly- don't say anything to anyone about it- that will play into the drama- creating some distance from this for your own emotional well being. Your feeling hurt doesn't change your D, or anyone else in the family. It has no impact on their decisions. But it affects you, and that's the reason to try to diminish it if possible.

For me, it was to step away from the triangulation. Not reach out to a family member to discuss another family member or if they bring it up, to say as little as possible, change the subject. I also kept my own personal information to myself, knowing that whatever I said to one of them would be shared with the others. I did not anounce it, that would cause drama. I just did it.

You want to keep the communication doors open. Of course if something was important, you want to know about it. But you don't need to know who gets together when, what they say or don't say. FB posts don't mean a lot- people put up an image on FB that they want people to see. For all you know, that Mother's Day get together was full of drama that you didn't have to get involved with. BPD affects all relationships. It may appear they are getting along without you, but you don't know if it's true or not.

People feel most aligned when they have a common person to blame. It may be that once you step away from the triangle, they might focus on someone else.

I don't like the idea of unfriending family on FB. However, there is a way to hide your posts from them and also see less of theirs without unfriending them. They won't even notice. You can selectively hide your posts and show a few so they don't catch on. It just creates some emotional distance from them for you.

When you speak to your mother - don't ask about your D as much, maybe not even at all for a while. If she brings it up - keep your responses less emotional. If she asks how you are doing, tell her you are doing better- don't go into it with her. If your D wants to know your feelings, she can ask you herself.

It's hard to feel happy but I hope you give yourself permission to do so. It isn't all the time. There will be a song on the radio, or a picture or post, that brings up the sadness. These relationships are significant and the emptiness is a part of this. But you are worth having some happiness too.

Mother's Day is a hard one- whether it's because of a disordered mother or as a mother.  It's OK to feel sad. You are not over reacting. It's normal. I hope though that this next step for you is to take a step back from this family dynamic- and have some happy moments ahead.

It's very important that you do not normalize the disordered behaviors of your children's father to them by ignoring their feelings and how they are affected. If your child says something like: "I don't like it when dad yells.", you can say something like: "I don't like it either. We can use our words to explain how we feel without raising our voice." What is important is that you are responding to your child's feelings and are brief while explaining what a more appropriate mature response is.

It was not until I was in high school that my father explained to me he had done everything to get mental health for my mother with BPD and she refused to go see a mental health professional. Up until then, I did not know she had mental health problems and how to take her frequent melt downs. I felt that there was something wrong with me because of how badly I was treated by my mother. The second part of his response was not good. He asked me to not get into arguments with my mother. I was not given any way to take care of myself or to stop wondering if maybe I was the problem.

This happened over 20 years ago... I had called the police to report a domestic dispute.  By the time they arrived she had calmed down enough, though still angry and red-faced, that they asked me to hand our preschooler over to his mother and "step away".  He clung tighter to me so I wasn't carted off.  She gloated that they gave her a DV resources booklet.  A few days later, after I was able to copy my recording and file a report, she was arrested for (verbal) Threat of DV.  The case was months later ruled Not Guilty pursuant to case law since she didn't have a weapon in her hands.

After she was taken away I browsed our computer's history and saw she had blocked my email address on her email account.  During our entire separation, two year divorce and for many co-parenting years afterward, my email was still blocked.  For all I know, my email could still be blocked.  (Texts and calls aren't blocked.)

Here's a blast from my past.  I never overreacted to my ex's ragefests - one of her big complaints about me - but one time I tried to shout over her ranting...

I think actions tell the kids something too. I agree with not saying negative things about their father but he's going to be responsible for his own relationship with them.

Although I eventually could see that my BPD mother wasn't like other mothers, this was the only mother I knew, and it was a "normal" in the family for her to stay home while we went out with my father. Whether or not she had something to do, or what she did during that time, we didn't know. So almost any "reason" would not be proven otherwise.

Sometimes a parent can't be present- like if they had to work, or were away, like in the armed forces. I think what makes a difference to children is how the parent relates to them when they are able to be present.

My father didn't do it all perfectly- no parent does, but in general, he was more engaged with us when we were younger. My father was emotionally more stable, more predictable, and that affected how we attached to him. That I had the more secure attachment to my father had nothing to do with what anyone said. It was a result of each of their behavior.

Your kids are also watching you. Both parents are role models. If you tolerate hurtful behavior, your kids will see that. You can also role model boundaries, saying no ,and not tolerating hurtful behaviors for them. You can take care of you. Likely your H may blame you for the kids' relationship with him but you aren't responsible for his relationship with them.

I was thinking of this too, with the way he was quick to triangulate.

Hotchip, I think you should consider that the thinking in a pwBPD is so disordered that yelling something like "Kill yourself then!" at them isn't the same thing as saying that to a "normal" person.  You saw what he did after... he ran to call all his friends and present himself as the victim, and you as the aggressor.  This is what he wanted all along!  While you think you did a horrible thing, you essentially gave him what he wanted.

I noticed this in my own situation... a few times when I was absolutely at a breaking point - stressed out at work, and then at home on top of that - I lost it and called BPDxw all sorts of names. 

Now, I would also immediately feel upset with myself that I had allowed her to get to me, and was now "wrestling a pig in the mud" as the analogy goes.  When I was at that point, yelling and telling her in no uncertain terms what I thought of her, she would (paradoxically) calm down and seem satisfied. 

I realized she fed off the drama in a way I didn't.  She seemed to like fighting and screaming like that.  I don't know why... maybe in her head that showed I loved her?  If I didn't care and just ignored it when she sent me nasty-grams and said all sorts of mean things about me, my family, my career, etc. would she fear I didn't care because I didn't love her?  Her parents fought a lot, and although I couldn't speak their language, I understood they said some pretty awful things to eachother on a regular basis.  Maybe she grew up internalizing fighting as "love"?  Or maybe she had such a horrible self-image than when she could put the ball in my court like that, and make me the one swearing and losing my temper, she could tell herself I was also to blame?  Like I shouldered the burden of being an awful person with her?  One can never really know with a pwBPD, and in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.  The point is, a pwBPD doesn't react to things the same way a non-disordered person does.  For them, drama and anger is like brain candy.  They feed off it mentally, and will go to extraordinary means to provoke conflict if they're not getting it.

You shouldn't feel guilty for this, any more than you'd feel guilty for telling a toddler throwing a tantrum about candy that there's none left, when you know there is some.

He's putting you in an impossible situation, and you're managing it on behalf of your kids, who's welfare is the priority of any parent.  They should be his priority too, but since he's not capable of considering that, or acting appropriately, it's up to you.   

You need to get over the guilt so it's not clouding your own judgment.

I look at it this way: you owe your partner, and especially your spouse, some respect, honesty, and trust.  However, when they've repeatedly demonstrated by their actions they're not deserving of it, self-preservation and protecting the children of the relationship takes a precedent.  When your kids are too young to fend for themselves, sometimes that means you need to take care of yourself as well to ensure you're there for them. 

To add- pwBPD have difficulty with uncomfortable emotions and turn to external sources for relief- and in that moment, they just want relief. They are focused on their own feelings. There's also emotional immaturity.

Another analogy is the Madeline children's book where when the other children see all the attention and presents Madeline gets- they want their appendix out too. They have no idea what that really involves- the pain, the surgery. They see the attention.

Prior to my father's serious illness, BPD mother was the main focus of attention from her family and friends who were in the role of emotional support/caretaker to some extent, but my father, and also us adult children- we were the main people she looked to.

It was obvious to most people that this was a very stressful situation for all who were connected to my father, including my mother but the natural course of events was that the focus shifted to him.

For my BPD mother, this meant a decrease in emotional caretaking for her, but not a decrease in her emotional discomfort. So, her BPD behavior increased and also like the Madeline story, she sought attention.

It baffled me at the time, since I didn't understand BPD as well- how a mother could not see that her children also were emotionally affected by this situation.  Why would she do hurtful things ?

For your partner- you were feeling the emotional loss of your friend at the time. What he percieved was your change in attention and focus from him and on to your friend. He felt his own emotional discomfort increase, and so did what he saw would get your attention back to him. You told him it was difficult for you- that wasn't his focus. Whether he meant it or not, one doesn't know.

This was more than you could manage emotionally at the time, but you are only human, it was a human response. I also said some regrettable things to BPD mother when I got upset with her, things I would not normally say, but it also was in difficult circumstances.

For a pwBPD, the response to this can be projection- all that back at you. My mother also called up her family and friends and told them I said horrible things to her. BPD mother would periodically stop speaking to me and then reconnect.

Why you when it appeared your ex had other people in his circle? My BPD mother did too. However, BPD affects the closest relationships the most. You were the intimate partner- so you were the closest. It wasn't personal to you, but that you were this main person at the time.

Well...another Mother's Day   (Happy Mother's Day....I hope you made the best of) I have a weird topic, and I wonder if anyone would have a thought....my 26 y/o pwBPD (daughter) does not even respond to my texts anymore (this has been at least 9 months) (I have mentioned before) attached herself, to my mother (this is a great thing, my mother let's me know how she is), my sister (I still cannot wrap my brain around this....she DESPISED my sister, many years) and my niece (a very sad story (I know this sounds very negative, my niece had a very sad episode where her husband died (long story) and I was going to take her to dinner, my washer broke and I had wet clothes all over my basement (I took the clothes to a laundromat), thereby, missing dinner. my very favorite niece UNFRIENDED me (you can't make this up), again, pwBPD despised the niece, between my sister & niece she would beg to leave family dinners, etc. in any case, I already knew not to expect any Mother's Day acknowledgement (the first year I checked my phone ALL day) however, I saw a post from pwBPD, with my mother, sister, niece, saying Happy Mother's Day....I do not know if I am overreacting, but (I just want to cry, again) I just found that so hurtful (who are you Happy Mother Daying?) I have researched BPD....does it really make one CRUEL? because I took that as a slap....it just ruined my whole day (if I am being overly sensitive, feel free to tell me

Hotchip- here are two articles that might help you process what happened.

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

and another analogy story of the possible dynamics-

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0;all

In my situation, it was with a parent, so this is a long term relationship and one doesn't "divorce" a parent. Some adult children go no contact for their own emotional safety. In my situation, I didn't do that. It was BPD mother who would oscillate between being angry at me and then not - the "push pull" dynamics.

Although my BPD mother had mental health care- it wasn't effective with her for several reasons, - BPD was not well known at the time she started it, and also she herself could not process that anything that happened in a relationship had anything to do with her. She was in "victim" perspective- and any issues were someone else's fault. This also involved "projection" of aspects of themselves on to someone else. Without the ability to look inward, or motivation to work on that, that impacts the effectiveness of therapy.

So, if there was any idea of mental illness- although she might agree to attend therapy- she also would present us as the ones with the mental illness, and she did with me, several times. She did make some threats of self harm and we did call emergency when we were concerned. I agree with that advice but I'm focusing on the dynamics here.

We are human and have our own emotional capacity. There's also the "boy who cried wolf" phenomenon, with multiple threats a day.

Most of the time, I didn't react in anger at BPD mother. Regardless of the situation, I didn't want to be disrespectful to a parent. However, my father had passed away.  I was grieving, emotional. I didn't have much tolerance for BPD mother's behavior at the time. I yelled at her and she reacted to that.

To parallel your situation- you had just lost a friend to the unthinkable. You were not in a good place emotionally- which would be expected. I think a non disordered person can understand that someone who has experienced a loss is having a hard time themselves, but someone in victim perspective doesn't. If you have been their emotional sounding board and now, you aren't doing that, they perceive it as you doing something wrong to them.

My BPD mother also reacted by telling people I was emotionally disturbed. In a way she wasn't wrong- I was upset- but for a normal reason. You were too, but where you assumed your partner would understand, he did not. If he was used to making a threat, or sharing your emotions, he still expected it, and when it didn't work, he had an extinction burst- "pushed the button" over and over again.

I think counseling is a great idea for anyone who has been in a relationship like this. With the victim perspective/projection/blame - it's hard to not blame yourself. I think it's fair to call behavior that is hurtful "abuse" even if the person doesn't intend it to be- when it has an emotional affect on the other person. Eventually the other person reacts to that. If someone is being physically hurt, they may react by fighting back, even if they aren't someone who usually does that.

In this situation, it seems you are in general, a caring person and your partner became dependent on your emotional caretaking. When you were in a situation where you needed someone to be empathetic to you, you assumed, like one normally would, that your partner would be empathetic to you as well. However, he couldn't be and his emotional needs continued.

You have a lot to process- the loss of a friend, and the ending of a relationship with a disordered person. That doesn't mean anything is "wrong" with you. It's a lot to process. Therapy can be a supportive situation for you to work through this. It's OK to post here too, but I think the one on one with someone also can help.