Prior to yesterday's appointment, I went online and signed up for a 1 on 1 session with this therapist because I know she continues to see my daughter. That appointment is this Thursday. I think she already knows why I left the session because I briefly spoke to her about my daughter's behavior during sessions previously. All she had to say on the matter was that she never had to lay down rules before.......okay, but she clearly does in our situation, but hasn't? This women is just some random therapist who my daughter hooked up with after attending an IOP for continuing care because she was available during a time slot that we both knew would continue to work once my daughter starting attending cosmetology school. There's nothing in her background that indicates that she's even BPD "informed", and it's been proven time and time again that nothing can get accomplished in sessions exclusively due to my daughter's words and behavior. For instance, during a time period that my daughter and I weren't really having any major issues, the session started out fine, but when I brought up the subject of my daughter getting a part time job and wanted to discuss a timeline by which she'd do that or I would stop payment on her internet bill (this was after she moved into the apartment but before she was attending school), all hell broke loose, and then she (my daughter) decided to end the call. It's always the same thing. She doesn't want to be held accountable for anything, big or small.

I plan on just letting the therapist know that I won't be attending any more family sessions as nothing productive takes place and it isn't good for my daughter or me to continue to engage in this way. I'm also going to remind her that my daughter has a legitimate BPD diagnosis that was a very long time coming with numerous doctors, Psychologists, and therapists all reaching the same conclusion over a 5 year period--- a diagnosis that my daughter doesn't want to face. I'll also let her know that the therapy she really needs is DBT (as I think should be very clear by her ongoing behavior in family therapy sessions) and that I've become aware that DBT is now being used to help expectant mothers mitigate challenges with hormones, and I really think it would be in my daughter's best interest if she'd (the therapist) encourage her to start practicing DBT, even if only for that reason. I can't control how this therapist decides to proceed with my daughter, but I do know if she's not engaging with my daughter appropriately given her diagnosis that she can't help her and could potentially make matters worse.

Rolling things back about a year, after my daughter was removed from my house following about the 4th inpatient hospital stay she was pink-slipped into by law enforcement, I had put up a boundary that I ended up dropping, where I told her that I'd communicate with her only when a therapist was present, and only when she engaged appropriately. This was just as she was entering a 3 month online IOP (in her apartment) where they were supposedly doing DBT. I say "supposedly", because many programs incorporate aspects of DBT but it's not really a comprehensive  "adherent" program that operates as Marsha Linehan dictates it should. Perhaps if I would have stuck to that boundary, my daughter and I would at least be able to engage in a healthy way with a therapist in between.... maybe not.

Today I decided to discontinue sessions with my current (personal) therapist and pivot over to a DBT practice that truly specializes in BPD and runs an adherent DBT program as well as offers individual therapy. It's a practice that my daughter was let go from about 4 years ago because she wouldn't do any DBT "homework" and wasn't complying with any aspect of the program. My current therapist is nice, and a Phd, but I'm really not getting what I need from her. I want to work with someone who is in the trenches when it comes to BPD, knows all the skills backwards and forwards, and can help me navigate the challenges I continue to face with my daughter in an informed way. So I called and they recommended that I work with a particular therapist who works with parents of pwBPD. It was explained to me that this BPD parent coaching is sort of like family therapy without having another family member there, which sounds like a good fit--- I hadn't even mentioned my inability to have family sessions with my daughter. The practice doesn't take insurance and the sessions aren't inexpensive but I'm starting to feel a little better better knowing that I'll have a solid resource for individual therapy/counsel that I really need.

Hi lisaea1523 ,

Yes, at this point, I'm afraid that living together will just make things worse. You both need to have your time and space. The behaviors you described are way too far from acceptable. You need to bring peace for yourself and for the kids. After you split and go for shared custody, maybe he can be a good father, if he wants, but not in the current setting with you around.

All advice given by PeteWitsend is pretty good. However, I think things are not so difficult.

You are in the best situation you could be: you are living in a rented house. That makes things much easier. If the rental agreement is a month-to-month payment contract, you can end the lease unilaterally with 30-day notice. Then everyone will be forced out, and then you'll move to another place. In case he wants to assume the lease by himself, and he notifies the landlord about that, then it's fine. Good luck to him with that.

For the kids, it will be shared custody. If you think he could get aggressive with your decision, then try to install some security cameras in your place before you start, or at least use your cell phone in your pocket to record the conversations. Because you may have to use them later.

Hopefully, you won't need any lawyer or help with domestic violence. If you both still love each other, then there is a chance that you may reach an agreement. But in any case you must be prepared for the worst.

For all the legal advice, if you are lost, you can chat with artificial intelligence first, such as ChatGPT, just to get some clarity. You'll be surprised with their knowledge. That won't replace a lawyer in any way, and you must double-check any statement that's critical for your decision, but it will save you a lot of time anyway.

I'm in a similar situation because I live in a rented apartment, and I was moving out because of my wife's crazy behavior, but then she finally agreed to leave herself. If we succeed in maintaining a healthy relationship while not living together, then that could be a wake-up call for her to stop the crazy stuff and start doing DBT. The best outcome would be that I could bring her back after many months or a few years. But I'm prepared for the worst, which in my case would be the end of the relationship and the deterioration of her mental health due to her own choices. I think that being prepared for the worst is a healthy mentality.

You may also consider the possibility of moving out to a flat/hotel that you can just pay per use. I mean paying per day or per month, without the need to sign a long-term contract. Meanwhile, he would have time to decide whether to assume the lease by himself or leave the house. But don't tell him you are going to a temporary place because then he will just wait for you to return.

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're in this position and while I can't relate completely (my BPD wife abruptly left me), I have been through this many times with my BPD daughter.

You are responsible for you and the kids.  He is currently in the way of that and you're living in a nightmare.  He is also responsible for himself, the kids, etc but he's not taking that responsibility seriously.  The only conclusion is that he must leave.

You mentioned that you don't want to break up.  Fine.  But that's not the point here and it's not something you should be arguing over.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He stands in the way of that and he must leave.  If he feels the relationship is over because you're throwing him out, that's his decision and he's allowed to make it.  That can't change your viewpoints though because you're responsible for three kids that he's becoming increasingly hostile towards.

I know this isn't easy advice to hear.  But I think it's the advice that you know in your heart is true and you want to hear others say it.  So that's what I'm doing- there are zero other options here.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He must leave.

So let's roleplay this out.  I'm your husband.

You tell me to leave.  I say I will eventually.  How do you reply?

Whatever you say, I use my disordered thinking to spin this back at you.  You've never loved me, you're ruining everything, you only care about the kids, etc.  What do you say to that?

Here's where these arguments always spin out of control.  He's going to fight emotionally while you're just trying to say the obvious- he can't be there anymore.  The kids are scared and you're beyond frustrated.  So if this is the path the conversation goes, you dial 9-1-1 and say your children don't feel safe with him in the house.

The police will arrive and ask him to leave.  He probably will, and the relationship will be all but over.  He will be furious as well.  But at least this starts a paper trail and he realizes that you're not playing.  Maybe he leaves you...which is fine at this point because that's the whole goal here.  Just to get him to physically leave.  If you want to try to salvage things later, that's still on the table.

Again, I know this is ugly.  I hate writing it just as much as you hate reading it.  But I'll say it one more time, you're responsible for you and the three kids.  Something must change and you're the only one who can change it.

Hi WizerNow and welcome,

given what you wrote, it seems like you can handle the life with a BPD spouse quiet ok with adjustments. It seems that you can get some time just for yourself.

I know how hard it is to stay calm when they get all looney and we would just like to scream something like: you are so wrong, this will not be true in any universe!?!?! but instead we should stay calm and validate what is valid and not JADE. I hope somebody else has some advice on how to stay calm when extremly triggered, I do not, if I stay calm it is result of practice and my mood/tiredness/how the day is going come into account and also luck (maybe better luck with more experience) to say the right thing to defuse the argument.

However, one thing I could give advice is to stop being involved in his appointment planning/execution. I mean it in a way if he made plans with his mother, it is not your problem if he will not take her. Sounds harsh, but probably his mother would make him take her or next time mother would do things differently and ask somebody else or check with your husband again before the appointment. In your instance when H is being excited about a free day I would maybe react differently from the start, maybe something that he does not feel threatend like: great, what are your plans? and later on I would ask like I was not totally sure: isn’t your mother’s appointment with cardiologist tomorrow?- so he does not feel nagged and you do not have to listen to another circular BS.

With my partner I can get into an argument when he tihinks I am making up tasks for him, to which your question reminds me, I also think this is BPD thing. In my relationship I have decided to not have all the appointments etc for my partner in mind. In the past I had in mind some of them that I also found important, I tried to remind him of stuff like applying for a check up visit, that something is coming up or something like that, minor things for me, I would be happy and I would find it normal if he showed the same involment with me, but was almost always angry with me. The filling with BPD is that they most of the time want a mother in a partner, but at the same time they want to be totally independent. So I have decide he is a big boy and I will not be asking him questions and reminding him about these appointments, these are his things, not mine. It turns out he can take care of himself, sometimes it is later than I would wish for, but this is at the end of the day not my problem.

I'd suggest you find professional help.

I also drank a lot in my 20's (and 30's) and while I was not losing friends over it, I did have drinking buddies I stopped associating with because I could see they were "problem drinkers," i.e. getting in legal trouble from drinking too much like DUIs and arrests, getting fired from their jobs because of absenteeism, or getting in bar fights and other stupid stuff. 

In my experience it was usually not just drinking that was the problem: the people that struggled with it had other issues going on... that may be true in your case. 

I don't know what else to tell you, and as far as getting over your ex, assuming the situation is as you describe, it should be clear to just about anyone that she's bad news and you should move on, so the fact that you can't see this, that you're struggling to get over someone who has repeatedly disrespected you... well to me that emphasizes the fact that you need some help to understand this.

It's not the fact that you made a mistake that's the issue here: it's that you repeatedly have made mistakes and don't seem to be learning from them.  You should ask yourself why, and get a professional to help you find a path forward. 

In the meantime, try to find ways to disconnect from these issues in a healthy way.  Is there something you like to do that doesn't involve drinking or staring a screen?  Like go for a run, walk in the woods, read, go for a swim, build model airplanes, draw, paint, etc.  It doesn't have to be a big time commitment... just try for 15-20 minutes a day. 

I myself had trouble disconnecting from screen time, and I'd find that if I could just tell myself to read for a bit first, it would often get easier.  And I'd be happier with myself and feel good that I did it.  (just as an example) and that self-confidence bump helped me in other ways too.

First of all... this is a terrible situation, especially for your kids, and unfortunately there's probably not an easy solution. 

This might not be something it's possible to resolve anytime soon, barring an absolute meltdown by your partner that would land him in jail, or otherwise allow a judge to issue a protective order against him.

Consider breaking this into smaller steps. 

As far as getting him out of the house, if both your names are on the lease, that's not likely to happen without a legal reason (like him getting arrested for something).  He has a legal right to be there, period.  It might take a formal eviction notice being filed against him, which would take time to be resolved in court (and that amount of time would vary depending on where you live). 

If you have a decent person for a landlord, perhaps you could explain the situation to them and see if they could let you out of the lease so you could move elsewhere.  But if not, that could become problematic. 

You need to see an attorney for some legal advice.  Can you get a referral for one in your area?  You could perhaps pay for an hour consultation to get some advice on your options up front, without having to resort to a full representation (and the $5K+ retainer you'd have to put up for that). 

There also might be legal aid organizations in your area that could help you for free or refer you to someone who can help. 

You need to come up with a discreet way to document and record his abusive conduct.  Voice recorder maybe? Or hit the voice memo function on your phone whenever you're with him?  Practice doing this so it becomes easy and habitual.  Almost needless to say, emphasis on the word "discreet": when pwBPD realize they're being recorded, it escalates the problem. 

Until you can get a resolution, don't make or allow any further changes that further tie you and your children to him.  And if he pushes, you need to avoid making a decision; maybe come up with excuses if you can't find it in yourself to openly confront him. 

Hi again,

In another thread I might have made the suggestion to slow walk.  That means, try to intentionally slow down your reactions to your son.  In practice, that means not jumping to answer the phone if you're already busy doing something else.  It means that mentally, you don't jump directly to the worst-case scenario in your head.  If it's a text and you're driving, you don't look at it until you reach your destination--I do that anyway, for my own safety!  And if you're talking to your son, take a few breaths and listen before speaking.  He really needs you to remain calm--I think that should be your overriding objective.  Slowing things down will typically bring some calmness.

Look, my spouse has some BPD traits from time to time when he's under stress, and he'll treat me like his beck-and-call wife.  He'll need my help with absolutely everything--holding open a door, finding something in a drawer, and needing assistance with one-person tasks, such as taking out the kitchen trash.  I generally try to be helpful, until his requests (demands) of me seem over-the-top needy and bordering on disrespectful, especially when he's barking orders while seeming oblivious to the fact that I'm busy with my own tasks.  His demeanor will turn angry, frustrated, petulant, overly needy.  That's when I start to slow walk things, almost literally.  "Honey, my hands are soapy, I'll help you in a minute."  You see, in the span of the minute it takes me to rinse and dry my hands, he often finds the thing he's looking for, or he just goes ahead and completes the task himself (like opening the door).  He didn't really need me, he was just accustomed to me being at his beck and call for every little inconvenience he encountered.  And that's when I slow walk.  I try not to absorb his crankiness, as well as give him extra time to sort things out for himself.  That helps me, too, because I can stay on-task (sort of) with my own life.

I'll use a similar strategy when, say, I get a call at dinner time.  I'll let it go to voicemail, and then return the call after dinner or the next day if warranted.  I want to enjoy my dinner with my family and not let the food get cold as I'm distracted with the phone call.  I know that with BPD, almost everything feels like an emergency.  But if you slow walk, maybe some of your calmness will rub off.

Hi WizerNow , and welcome to the family !


Everyone has their own buttons. Over time, your BPD partner will become an expert in pushing them. That's why it will be so hard to stay calm.

In this particular situation about their mother's appointment, I would probably not be angry at my wife's overreaction. But when I need to have a friendly talk about the scratched pans in the kitchen and she blows out at my face, it's so hard to not react. Because I value my pans, but they always get scratched, and I feel like I have the right to have my pans preserved. This is my expectation.

So in the end it's all about your expectations being broken and perhaps your needs not being met. Maybe it would be helpful to write down your expectations and needs. That will bring you clarity about the core reasons for your frustrations. It should include all of the good things you expect from him as well.

And then perhaps if you want to take another step, then you could try to talk to him about your list, pointing out some of your wishes that are being fulfilled and some that aren't. When approaching him for the first time, select just a few items from your list. The first ones should be items that are being fulfilled. Then in the end you add one or two that aren't. If that doesn't go well, just give up and keep the list for yourself. It will be helpful to guide you in your decisions.

I have very little experience with group therapy- maybe 5 sessions total with three different therapists.  In two of the three, the therapist set the tone and we were answering them, not the others in therapy.  The third one let my daughter rant a bit, but eventually cut her off and asked us for responses.  When my daughter interrupted, she'd again cut her off and ask her to let us respond.

So I've only been part of a session like that once and it was with an old psychiatrist who never said a single word.  That wasn't group therapy, but you get what I'm saying.  The therapist you have does not sound like a good choice for group therapy.  And like you said, it's your kid's therapist so you don't have much control over that.

One thought though; if there's another therapy session that you're invited to, it might be worthwhile to use it to state some boundaries moving forward (no yelling, no abusive calls/messages, no financial support until the abuse stops).  It won't go over well, but at least the therapist can hear you and use that information in later sessions to correct what was actually said.

Hi GrayJay ,


I think it's ok for you to validate her pain. However, it is counterproductive to be an audience for the drama, as it will feed it. She says that she wants you to feel pain, but in reality she just wants you to participate in the drama so that you help her out in regulating her brain.

I know it's hard for you to go through this without understanding what's going on. Here is the explanation, as in the first sentence of my signature:

It's not your fault. This is what's going on:
https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-06891-012

She is getting addicted to those narratives because they stimulate her EOS (read the link). At the same time, her need for endogenous opioids may be increasing over the years due to having fewer nutrients available to the brain than before.

My wife clearly improves over time with high-potency and high-quality nutrients. I can't share them here because that would be against the forum rules, but you can find out for yourself by googling something such as "most effective nutrients for BPD," and you can also read some scientific studies on the results.

Apart from this, you can also neutralize the accusations. Can you remember some sort of accusation she made for which you agreed or accepted the label, and what was her reaction? Anything smaller, such as eating too much, snoring, or some critique of your personal hygiene?

My wife doesn't invest any energy at all in convincing me that I am a narcissist or a psychopath anymore. When she is dysregulated, she still pronounces the narcissist label here and there, but not with as much energy as before. Because the whole point of making the accusation was to promote contradiction with me. Accepting the labels didn't bring anything bad for our relationship at all. Much to the contrary, it makes her start to question herself. Sometimes when she is not dysregulated, she even backs up by stating that I'm not a real narcissist like her father. It's quite surprising.