The last time I posted here was back in August - I had initiated a separation after my husband spoiled a major milestone for me. He accepted his diagnosis, got into therapy (finally consistently after at least 3 prior abandoned attempts), and mostly respected my boundaries. However, it should have been a sign to me when he moved back into our master bedroom while I was traveling (about 3 months later), without asking for my consent first.

He was on his best behavior, working hard, employing his DBT skills, remaining calm (while I realized that I was still carrying resentment and was snappier than I am proud of), and... I should have known... focusing all his attention on an upcoming lavish vacation that we would take together for almost 6 weeks. During the vacation, he was mostly great. I attribute this to the fact that he got to live what is essentially his dream life (driving high-end cars, smoking good quality cannabis every day, spending money like it was water, not worrying about work, and exploring new and interesting places with me - a way we've often connected in the past).

The moment we returned home, to the foreign country where we live, it all went to _____ again. I knew that it would. I knew that even with years of intensive therapy with the right therapist and a true commitment to change, pwBPD will still have splits and the idealization/devaluation phase. I wanted to see if the tools I had built up for preserving my own mental health during our separation were strong enough to survive until the split was over - relatively unscathed.

My tools were not enough. Because what I also hadn't realized was that he'd been slowly gaining legal and financial control over my life, pushing me into making decisions I normally woulnd't make or subversively not allowing me to pursue something I am really excited about because it takes my attention away from him. I have found this last bit to be the nail in the coffin for me. You can call me a million horrible names, and I can walk away or put on my noise canceling heaphones. But once you sabotage my business (in a way that's even sabotaging your own because you are so afraid of seeing me so excited), a red line has been crossed.

He made it about the fact that I took the separation - that I "bailed on the marriage" by taking the separation to try and finally break the cycle. It became clear to me that the only way this relationship will work is if I apologize profusely for taking the break (which I needed to try and heal from years of protracted emotional and verbal abuse) and give up my boundaries. To give up the last of my power.

So I've decided it's finally time to leave. And I really, really could use your advice.

We are two foreigners living in a foreign country. We got married in my home country, but don't reside there, and we never registered our marriage in our country of residence (where it turns out you need to get divorced). It turns out that I can say I intend to reside in Washington State (I could - I was born there and have friends there), and if I can get him to sign the papers where we fill out that we've come to an equal and fair agreement about how to divide our assets, I can submit online and the judge will grant the divorce after a 90-day cooling off period (luckily for me - he's not much of a researcher, so I doubt he'd even look into the cooling off period). I believe he would leave all of my US accounts alone - which would be in his best interest, or else he'll have to take on the credit card debt as well.

The other issue is that, in order for me to legally work in this country, I had to give up the shares in his company and become his employee. ALL of our assets here - most of which I paid for, except the office he built for himself - are owned under the company (because of the complicated foreign ownership rules in this country).

I've been told by multiple experts that I have no leg to stand on - I will just have to come to some sort of good faith agreement with him where he won't cancel my working visa (if he does, I fortunately have other options) and where he'll ideally buy me out of our house and the land that I bought (and potentially the future proceeds he'll get from subleasing it or selling it)... and I need to figure out a way how to do this without him simply saying no. It would be nice if he also paid me some additional money, given that I spent ALL of my money on supporting us (and the wedding) for the first four years of our relationship, but I'm not holding my breath. The one thing I have going in my favor is that he has a huge ego around his "principles" and "fairness" - so if I can somehow make a case that makes it seem like the fair thing to do, that it would make him look good to other people, he might go for it.

Does anyone know about any mediators who work internationally and aren't tied to the legal system? Maybe more like a coach or a therapist?

But my biggest concern and downright fear is finally having the difficult conversation to tell him it's over for real this time. I've read about and heard too many stories where a BPD partner was never violent... until they heard it was over.

So I'm plotting my escape. We live on a tiny island without cars, and I have WAY too much stuff. Plus we have cats - and you have to go through a complicated admin process moving them around in this country. I am planning to move to a much bigger island (which he hates), and, in fact, I've already found a place that I can move into on July 15. In the meantime, I am out of the house on a work trip. When I return, I will have 2 weeks to finish my work assignment... and then two weeks to somehow tell him and also safely pack up my stuff. My stuff isn't just stuff - it's stuff for my livelihood, family heirlooms, and my over-the-top collection of clothing that I wish I wasn't so attached to.

So how do I do this to minimize the risk of violence, pleading, rage, following me from room to room (we don't have locks)? He will notice when I start packing, but I can't imagine spending two weeks in the house with him once the process starts. I have asked some friends if they'd be willing to come "help" - but really be witnesses. They've agreed.

But also, I need to tell him because I need him to agree to the asset split (if he actually will give me anything) and agree to the divorce.

It's such a mess. Even though I understand how complex and time-consuming it can be in other countries, I desperately wish we lived in the US, where at least there are things like lawyers who can negotiate on your behalf or restraining orders or common law property states or numbers you can call if you're afraid for your life. There aren't even police stationed on the island where we live.

Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated - especially about the order of events in which I should safely do this with the best outcome.

Thank you!

In my humble opinion, it's similar to the observation that small dogs have earned the reputation for being nippy, yappy and reactive, more so than big dogs.  Maybe there's an innate, genetic disposition to feeling threatened, but my opinion is that it's a mostly a learned behavior.  Small dogs are more nippy, yappy and reactive BECAUSE they tend to get away with the behavior.  The owners might think, a bite, snarl or scratch from a little dog, well that's harmless, because the dog is so little and cute.  Over time, the bad behavior is not corrected, and it becomes ingrained.  Yet if a 100-pound dog snarled, bit or jumped onto a human, my bet is that they would be corrected immediately.  A bite from a Doberman could get it put down, after all.

My opinion is that the "hot girl" typically doesn't have to try very hard to get attention.  She gets attention, especially male attention, in spite of her petulance/meanness/rudeness/lying when she's lashing out.  Yet if a "plain girl" acted that way, well she'd probably not have many friends at all, let alone suitors.

I am certainly not implying that all hot girls are "crazy" as the meme references, and I'm not implying that plain girls are always nice.  Of course not.  I just think that attractive women are generally given more behavioral leeway, because they are attractive.  Think Mean Girls, who are idolized and popular, even though they're mean, spread nasty rumors and try to sabotage each other.

In a way, there's a genetic component to cuteness.  Babies are basically "engineered" to be cute, to "compel" parents to care for them, even if babies are extremely needy and annoying, with their high-pitched crying, fussiness and frequent need for feedings and diaper changes.  Babies can go from laughing to wailing in a split second, for no apparent reason, except general overwhelm.  But, given their cuteness, they seem to control the people around them, compelling them to bend over backwards to meet their daily needs.  It seems to me that some adults with BPD act in a similar fashion--they can start wailing in a split second for no apparent reason.  Would people really tolerate that behavior in an adult, unless she was very attractive?

I've seen some discussions here about what happens when two pwBPDs meet and form a relationship.  I think like a NPD-BPD, it's just not going to last very long, certainly not beyond the "honeymoon" phase when the relationship moves beyond "new and exciting" to "hey I have problems, and expect you to take care of them."

I just cannot see a pwNPD being willing to caretake the BPDer, so I think they'd both move on fairly quickly when they realize their "needs" are not going to be met.

In my own family and friends over the years I noticed some I suspected of having "issues" (though I knew nothing of BPD then) seemed to seek out the others in a way, but also would not take any grief from the others and those relationships never developed in any way.  It's almost like they could "recognize their own." 

I know this is a small sample size, but I have a couple aunts, and one of them was always the "black sheep" of the family... sometimes drinking too much and always picking fights at family events.  She'd seemingly make things up, or invent things to fight about that would leave everyone else confused as to where the hell she came up with what she was upset about.  No one knew anything about BPD, so there were always conjectures about what her deal was.  Anyways, after we were married BPDxw had a couple interactions with her, and my aunt was never very warm and fuzzy with her, more like "openly dismissive."  I thought for sure this would cause problems, yet, BPDxw never had much of an issue with her.  However, she did pick "blow-up heated arguments" with my nicer aunts on separate occasions.   

Did two "wolves in sheeps' clothing" know better than to pick on the other? 

On the topic of what predisposes someone to continuing a relationship with a pwBPD? I think anyone can be attracted to a pwBPD but not all relationships progress long term.

Being willing to appease and having poor boundaries is one aspect. FOO dynamics can influence this. My FOO was similar to Pook's in that, we saw things our mothers did that were wrong by our own values but we were not allowed to stand up for them, or speak of them. We were taught, from an early age, that our boundaries mattered less, for the sake of family harmony. What was "right" for our fathers may have taught us to abandon our own values and not have boundaries in relationships. Kids don't have the nuanced understanding of this decision like an adult would.

I saw some recent videos that discussed the adult parentified child in relationships and how we tend to dismiss our own feelings and regulate other people's feelings. We may end up in relationships with people who have poor emotional regulation skills. The relationships persist because we do the regulation for them. They gain a sense of comfort but it also keeps them from dealing with their own emotions and possibly learning better emotional regulation skills. If the parenfied partner then expresses their needs, these needs are dismissed, the partner can't meet them, and if they don't regulate their partners, the partners can then blow up in anger, or react in other ways.

The term BPD isn't ever used as it's not the only situation where someone has poor emotional regulation skills. However pwBPD have poor regulation skills and so the pairing between them and an adult parentified child may be more likely to progress.

People with autism also may not have strong emotional regulation skills for other reasons. They may be overwhelmed and react. So I think the pairing of BPD and autism may not be as frequent. I have also read that a NPD-BPD pair can be unstable.

FWIW, I have a good friend who is a psychiatrist, and he mentioned to me that there is a correlation between attractiveness and behavioral issues, or mental issues.  I don't recall if he specifically said "behavioral disorder" but it might have been something like that. 

It's become a meme online about "hot" women being also crazy, but apparently there's some truth to it. 

I am really curious as to whether it's a chicken or the egg thing: does lots of easy male attention bring out the worst in a woman?  Would the same thing happen with attractive men, who get too much female attention?  Or is there some other correlation here?  It seems like personality & physical appearance would be separate issues for a person, but over time, your self image definitely gets affected or warped by how others relate to you. 

Thank you for your responses.

I left this time around the end of March and when we were split up before, we never actually finalized the divorce or custody arrangement. I previously had a temporary protective order from CPS and she had supervised visits at a church scheduled for about a year. She talked me into meeting outside of the supervised arrangement and she put on the extra charm which eventually led to us getting back together and the court case was abandoned.

Now I have left again and did not call CPS or file for a protection order yet. Currently there is no custody arrangement an I have had both kids with me 100% of the time. I had gotten a DWI about 4 years ago, I missed court once it was filed two years later and she would always start a fight about me wanting to get it resolved. I think she liked that she could hold that over me since I could not renew my license at the time and it looked bad on my end and I think she wanted to keep it that way. Once I left I turned myself in to get that resolved so it’s no longer a warrant. 

When we left in March she would call the kids on FaceTime and try to inflate how great things are and she would go over the top with “acting” suddenly interested in them. My daughter even said she was performing and if we were there she would be the same angry mom we have come to know. I told her some people are just better from a distance.

That was when my daughter blocked her and they stopped answering her FaceTime calls. I didn’t know about it yet at the time and I didn’t want to completely cut off communication, but with how she can manipulate me I thought it was best that I at least avoided contact when possible. She texted me one evening and said “I haven’t heard from the kids in 48 hours, I’m calling the cops”. I promptly responded and said everyone is fine. She said, or I read it this way, in a snarky way “Oh too late I just got off the phone with them”.

The police showed up and said that she had called a welfare check and mentioned several times that I have a warrant, so she was trying to get me arrested out of spite. They said everything looked fine and they advised me to get a protective order against her.

After that I blocked her too, I didn’t want her to have that kind of control over my life and she can call the police if she wants, I am taking care of everything I need to. I feel I should get a protective order so at least something more recent is documented.

I understand the effort and value in keeping a family intact. The question I have is- if appeasing one's spouse to keep the family intact is the right thing, what if the appeasing involves doing the wrong thing to others, oneself, or to the family?

Right and wrong can be a matter of opinion sometimes but I mean doing something that is considered wrong in most cultures/religions. You mentioned appeasing to the point of giving up your own values. What if these are moral values?

This issue- giving up values- were a dynamic that affected the relationships in the family. It may have appeased BPD mother in the moment, but it caused real damage to relationships. Appeasing my mother in order to maintain the peace also had a high personal cost for my father- and maybe he was willing to do that for her but when it impacted his relationships with his own family and children- how far is too far?

I know your moral code has a religious grounding so I will use that for the examples of right and wrong. It is right to "leave your parents" and "cling to your spouse" but that doesn't mean cutting contact with them entirely or causing them the pain of not seeing their grandchildren,  just because your wife demands it and they haven't done anything to deserve that. It doesn't delete "Honor your parents".

I'm not singling out anyone or reporting exactly on things my father did,  but here on this board are many examples of grieving mother in laws, grandmothers who have lost contact with their adult child because that person is trying to hold the family togther and appease their BPD spouse.

I have also seen examples where holding the family together also involves the children being exposed to the dysfunction in the family and the behaviors of the BPD spouse. This is a complex issue because, the courts will usually award custody to both parents and in some situations, it's better that the children are not alone with their BPD parent more.

Giving in on things that matter less to us isn't a big issue. I think we all have our own individual boundaries but where's the line between holding things together and abandoning our own values? That's the dilemma.

Hello and welcome to the family- I'm so glad you found us.  This sounds like a really frustrating situation, and it also sounds like you've done everything right up until this point.  The final step is to just let go of the rope and let whatever happens happen.

Your sibling is mentally ill and will continue having problems until they take treatment seriously.  Your mom may not be mentally ill, but she's likely under so much pressure to help your sibling, it's like a mental illness.  I have a BPD ex and a BPD daughter, and I didn't realize until years after the fact that I was depressed, anxious, and exhausted because I was always so worried about what would happen next. 

Because I'm dad, I have to show up regardless, no matter how big of a hole my kid put herself in.  Even when she screamed at me and hated me.

What I learned in time was that I was enabling so much of the abuse that came my way by not enforcing healthy boundaries.  Your mom is in that same position and bless her, she's doing the best she can.  So realize that mom is not the enemy and she's only doing what she thinks is best in a really terrible situation.

Your sibling is also doing the best they can in a lousy situation (within their mind).  They are always the victim, always in the center of drama, and they're always rushing to put out a fire...yet starting three more on the way.  It's sad really, but the only way it gets better is if your sibling decides to take treatment seriously.

While you have great boundaries with your sibling, you have shaky ones with mom.  Let her know that you're not against your sibling; you're just not going to be in the middle of anything.  Your spouse and kids can choose what they want to do as well, and you'll help your sibling if you can.  It won't be at the expense of your mental health though- you're not accepting abuse just for the heck of it.

Look at it this way- you didn't cut off your sibling.  Your sibling decided to not respect your values, and you made it very clear that if that's what they chose, you weren't going to be in their life.  They made the decision- not you!  You just kept your promise and did the rational thing. 

Let mom know that you'll continue keeping that promise- if your sibling is civil, you're always there to talk.  If they're ugly, you'll walk away.  They are the one deciding though and this has very little to do with you.

My heart goes out to you having to deal with the never ending drama of having to still deal with your disordered sibling because you have chosen to have contact with your mother who enables your sister. "The situation never seems to end" really fits.

My mother with BPD is deceased. I have a large extended family and family of origin full of flying monkeys who enable the golden children like my sister with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and abuse the scapegoats like myself. I am still in contact with a few family members and people in the community where I grew up. The abusive behaviors from the flying monkeys never end and the resentment the family holds for my going no contact with my sister and exposing the family for generations of terrible abuse is never ending. Most recently I was taken off the family email list because of a short genuinely nice comment I made. Up until then the family did not realize I was on the email list. I have made requests to be added back to the list and ignored.

Dealing with your situation is really about boundaries. With your mother, I would shut down the conversation as soon as she starts talking about your sister saying something simple like: "I will not discuss my sister." and then follow through with leaving the room if your mother continues to insist. The most important boundary is how much you are going to allow yourself to be upset by how badly your family is acting: at what intensity and for how long. Clearly it is very hurtful to be so unfairly and badly treated by your closest family members. With time and continuing to work on boundaries, you will be less affected by their hurtful disturbing behaviors though it will likely always be a life long sorrow to be mistreated by your own family members.

The way your family members act is very ingrained and not likely to change. Give yourself a warm caring pat on the back for recognizing the dysfunction and being a loving mother doing everything you can to protect your children.

 

Thank you so much, I was hoping that my actions weren't the cause here and that it was just that, her making this about her like normal. She doesn't think I am happy and she hates that I am honestly. Your input is very much appreciated thank you!