I will simply quote one of my posts long ago.  I was trying to emphasize that a better example for the kids is invaluable.  It allows the children to experience the contrast between what your calm and steady home would be versus the chaos and dysfunction of time spent with the other parent.

While custody - or as much custody as the court would grant you - is important, even more vital is that you set an example for your children.  They need to see what a normal home environment should be, even if only with one parent.

Unless your ex somehow succeeds in convincing the court or other professionals that you are abusive or significantly neglectful, you WILL get parenting time with your children.  It may be as little as alternate weekends, it may be equal time or it may be more.  You son is clearly old enough to have a say in that aspect.  (After all, once he starts to drive he can "vote with his feet".)  But beware that his mother will emotionally guilt him and try to sway him to appease her.


A benefit would be that your children would get a glimpse of normalcy and seek that normalcy in future adult relationships... neither seeking controllers, users and manipulators nor seeking compliant appeasers.

So... "better late than never" may be a theme that works for you.

I agree with how vulnerable I am at this time and how difficult it is to take care of an 8, 5 yr old and newborn AND deal with his emotional dysregulation. We've been together for 2 years- the splitting became more frequent towards the end of the pregnancy so it's beginning to take a tremendous toll on myself and my other children. I'm no longer able to tolerate is as well as I once did. I don't know what to do next - I'm thinking about going away for the weekend with all 3 kids out of town to stay at a hotel and do some fun activites BUT I'm not sure I have the energy to do that on my own AND I'm afraid about how he will respond to that- he's already threatening to find someone else or go to the same town we're going to but do his own thing and go out to bars and whatever. If he does that it will break me- I don't think I could cope with those emotions. He will NOT leave our house- when I have said "fine just leave" or "you need to leave then" he says "I will" but he never does. Or he'll say I will leave once I get a place, next weekend, ect...And yes he texts abusive messages repeatedly all day long - he'll say don't talk to me and then continues to text me. I understand the function of splitting, I know none of this is personal I just want it to STOP. That's the part I don't understand- when they are doing this what response will work to make them stop- ignoring them doesn't work because it signals abandonment, responding briefly with supportive texts or at least acknowledgement doesn't stop the emotional abuse it still continues. Eventually I get angry and say mean things back or defend myself and that just escalates it further. I don't know that me "leaving" or getting away for the weekend- not ending the relationship but just getting away from him would work- I think if I said it was just a break not ending relationship he would still think it meant the relationship is over no matter what I say. When he's like this he does not believe ANYTHING I say is true - especially the positive reassuring things. The outcome will be he will jump to someone else and I'll be left alone, exhausted, devastated and broken.

I had a two year divorce and was in and out of family court for another six years.  Court studiously ignored the obvious mental health issues.  As did CPS, police, children's hospital, etc.  They all danced around the core issue and looked at only their slice of responsibility.  The unstated expectation was that it would eventually fix itself.

Even my lawyer, as practical and experienced as he was, ignored my concerns that that I was dealing with a Personality Disordered ex-spouse.  Yes, he did call her batsh-t crazy, but like most everyone else in the system PDs were never voiced.

The only exception was our last magistrate.  Fortunately she was no-nonsense and didn't put up with my ex's antics.  Unfortunately, we had her only at the end of my eight years in and out of family court.  While she did lambast my ex for disparaging me in my son's presence, did grant most of the solutions I sought in my petition and even said my ex needed counseling, she stopped short of ordering counseling.

There was a lesson there.  Family court does not try to fix the adult litigants.  It deals with them - mostly - as they are.  We would do well to follow that pattern.  Its court orders are what we would otherwise call Boundaries.


Fortunately most of your issues are financial except for the long term guardianship of your needs but grown son.  There are calculations for alimony but beware of agreeing to open ended orders.  They tend to continue for longer than appropriate.  In decades past long marriages could end up with permanent alimony, not so much today.  (One member long ago said his former state may still be an exception.)

The point is that today spousal support during a divorce or alimony afterward is seen more as interim support while the financially disadvantaged ex transitions to life after marriage.

Be aware that laws in the USA changed a few years ago.  The income earner now pays support and the income taxes, not the recipient who earns less and may be in a lower tax bracket.  The government wants its cut.

In my own divorce my ex easily agreed to a financial split since she was possessively focused on the custody and parenting issues.  But she balked on the parenting.  There was a chasm between our perceptions so the mediator agreed that mediation had failed.  I learned a lesson then... It's okay if mediation fails.  That is better than agreeing to lousy terms.  In our cases mediation often does fail and the litigants simply return to court and report mediation failed.  The good thing for you is that court has calculations to handle the financial issues.  However, be careful not to let the court walk all over you when trying to find a quick fix.

I just left my wife of 6 years who has had traits of BPD and NPD and am beginning the process of divorce.  I still love her and am struggling with a lot of grief over this, but I fully know that the relationship was extremely unhealthy and damaging to me and that both of us exhausted all attempts at improving it. Does anyone know of any online support groups for people recovering from abusive relationships due to BPD or NPD. 

I was planning to respond similarly.  Mediation might be a cheaper option for some couples, where there's an expectation from both parties of reaching a reasonable/equitable agreement in a timely manner with the help of an impartial mediator.  But the negotiations must proceed in good faith.  I think pwBPD are unable to negotiate in good faith, as they don't play fair, and many of their behaviors aren't even rational.  Trust me, if you think your wife is difficult now, she will be even more difficult in a divorce process.

I imagine that high-conflict couples typically go the lawyer route, and that they reach a settlement before going to trial.

My sister's high-conflict, uNPD ex was uncooperative with the separation process--including with his own lawyers, because several of his lawyers quit.  He was a no-show at court on a couple of occassions.  That means added time and expense, and a prolongation of the divorce process, which is highly stressful, draining and expensive.  My sister's case was one of the very uncommon ones that actually had to go to a trial, because her ex NPD wouldn't agree to any settlement proposal, nor make any counterproposal.  Like your wife, he refused to produce financials, he refused to abide by the parenting plan, and he had a million excuses for non-performance during the entire process.  He didn't negotiate in good faith.  The courts found him to be in contempt, he was that uncooperative.  The result?  Six years later, and the divorce still isn't finalized, and he still hasn't sold the marital home which he occupies.

From what you describe, I think mediation isn't feasible.  If I were you, I'd seek out an experienced lawyer who has some expertise with very high-conflict individuals.  From what you describe, your wife is very high-conflict.

Hello and welcome to the family- I'm so sorry we're meeting under these circumstances.

I'm also going to break the rules here and say very clearly upfront that you must focus on yourself and the baby right now; the relationship is secondary.  You need rest, you need patience, you need physical and mental healing from just giving birth. 

You do not need this battle on top of all that, however, and he must understand that your primary job is not placating his ego right now.

Why does this happen?  BPDs feel fundamentally broken inside and they think, "If only I had this one thing, the world would be perfect."  Even when they get that one thing though, they're still mentally ill and can't understand why it didn't magically fix everything.  And there's a decent chance that he felt like the baby would be that magical solution.

Only, reality with a newborn looks a lot different...which you know from your first kid.  No sleep, no help, no family time, etc.  So he's suddenly feeling neglected and that stinks, but that's also the actual reality and you can't change that.

This is the time for boundaries, my friend, not pampering.  He must understand how impossible it is with a newborn at home and how much he's needed to contribute.  If he's incapable and it must be about him, then maybe letting him leave temporarily could actually help your relationship long term.  Now is definitely not the time for him to be mentally abusive and you must let him see that.  Block the texts if necessary; it must stop because life is about the baby right now.

As Dr. Phil has said many times on his show (and he's right with this one)- the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Considering how your wife reacts over any discussion about finances- I think the possibility of mediation is remote to zero. What is more likely is a contentious situation.

Your lawyer will be interacting with you, to protect your interest in a divorce. Your wife's lawyer will be interacting with her for her best interest. I am not experienced with this- other posters may have better advice- but I think they focus on the law and defending your rights. That your wife has a PD is more likely to make the situation more contentious and longer but the lawyers will do what their job requires. IMHO what to look for is their competence and experience in contentious, high conflict divorces in case this would be the outcome.

Lisa, I’m really sorry you’re going through this, especially with a newborn.

When he’s in this state, reassurance often doesn’t land. Instead of explaining or calming, you might try gently asking a simple question and then listening, like:
What are you feeling so hurt or angry about right now? or
What does ‘being done’ mean to you in this moment?

Sometimes questions help him feel heard more than statements do.

Thanks again all, I did speak with a couple of lawyers last year. Neither of them were  familiar  with personality disorders. It was frustrating because one of them. I specifically called because she had awe’re experts on personality disorders. It was frustrating cause one of them. I specifically called because she had a website and had a blog with a couple mentions of high conflict personalities but when I talked to her, she was oblivious to NPD or BPD.

And they were very few attorneys that didn’t charge a fee for an initial consultation… but I have started going through and making a list of several more to contact. If we do head down the path of divorce, I am still hanging onto some hope that we could work through some mediation. Fact this we don’t have many assets to speak of, aside from the house, and of course the debts. That’ll be the biggest thing. I’m fine with splitting everything down the middle. We have no minors to deal with custody issues, the biggest thing is my adult disabled send and his guardianship. Oh and of course, spousal support. It was helpful to talk to the attorneys about spouse support, and the law surrounding that. During some of our episodes, she’s thrown out some ridiculous numbers of what she thinks she would get. There’s actually calculations based on the difference of our incomes, etc. So I’ve already done the calculation and it’s less than half of what she thinks she would get.  Naturally, she’ll feel entitled to receive more and will be surprised that she may actually have to actually support herself…

I don't know the road not taken. My parents stayed together, but I do recall what I think helped at age 15.

If the main consideration is the age- 15 years old. To me, the time line to adulthood is a factor. A divorce is disruptive and may take years. It also is financially costly. It is very likely to be a contentious divorce that drags out. If you did this now, he may be close to 18 or even older by the time that is completed. Custody may not be a consideration by then.

He is going to be affected by BPD mother in either situation. Whether more or less, it's hard to know.

By 15 from my own experience- the best possible intervention for me was to become independent. This can't happen at 15 but you can plan for it. If he likes school and does well- that means university in the near future. What I wanted most at this age was to be away from my mother and the issues in the house. I think most teens want to have autonomy too. This is done in "normal" situations through after school activities, visiting relatives if that is an option, and later going to college.

If your son were much younger, maybe there'd be a different idea but- really, the best thing for me was to be able to stand on my own and not be dependent on my parents. This is a process and college was a step on the way to that to that for me. Going away to school and not living at home also helped- and so if that's possible consider that.

Looking at the time line to adulthood for him and the process of divorce, focusing on his path to adulthood first, rather than both at the same time, would be what I think would be more helpful. Also because you aren't certain you want to divorce and your BPD wife is likely to escalate her behaviors during this time. If divorce is a serious consideration, it is more feasable when custody isn't an issue.

If you don't really want to divorce but are doing this to call her bluff, IMHO, don't do it. If she's bluffing, she doesn't mean it. Divorce is a difficult and disruptive process. It's something to do when you believe it's the necessary step but to take steps to do it when you aren't certain yourself is going to only escalate the situation, create more damage to the relationship should you want to continue it. Don't join her in her disordered thinking by acting on it.

My BPD mother threatened divorce frequently and didn't take any steps to do so. If your wife were serious, she'd take steps too. If she got to the point of retaining a lawyer, then you would need to do that too but unless your wife actually takes steps to do this- she's just making threats.

What your son needs is your time, attention and unconditional love. Initiating divorce when you don't want to do that- your time, attention, resources will be entirely focused on the conflict of that. Take some of the money you'd spend on the lawyer and put it in a college fund for him if you can do that. He will appreciate that later. Encourage him to do activities at school and be present- for sports game, any arts productions, whatever he's into. Take him to the movies, do things together. Soon he will be an adult. Make some bonds with him before he's out on his own- and after that too. Chances are you've been focused on your wife and her feelings a lot- and the drama. Turn some of that to quality time with your son and also encourage his future goals. That's what he probably wants most.