I was curious what the legal standard for an insanity defense is, and it's pretty established (going back to 19th Century English case that's been accepted and cited favorably by U.S. courts for almost as long as that) that either the person is not able to understand what they're doing, or if they do, that they don't understand that what they're doing is wrong. 

That might loop in some of the behavior of a pwBPD.  I think a pwBPD would understand that cheating is wrong.  A lot of their other behavior, though they might not see an issue with it when confronted by their partner, family member, or spouse, they would not want their behavior to be public knowledge, so they must know it's wrong in that regard.  In court, a pwBPD would fail the standard and be convicted. 

They often do display a double standard, i.e. they might yell at, scream, and insult their partners, but of course, the second you start to respond in kind they are the victim and it's not fair... so again, they know.  They just have no shame when it comes to their close relations, and no concern for other people, and so they feel they have a license to behave this way. 

In my own case, there was often a clear pre-meditated factor when BPDxw would pick fights, insofar as I would look at it in hindsight and see she came up with a pre-text to get angry about that she knew was wrong, or was inconsistent with how she behaved in other contexts. 

As I understand it, there's a pretty high burden to this.  And I suppose I can understand why, if the court is going to take away someone's legal rights and give them to someone else, but yeah, it's unfortunate when it allows them to keep making bad decisions so far into the end stages of life. 

It’s called a facade. Don’t get hung up on how things appear as it’s often an illusion.

My ex monkey branched to a guy selling her class A. She’s told our kids she is with him because he can financially support her better than I can. He takes her on holidays abroad, she moaned that I didn’t (because of logistical reasons). She rang me up ranting because her car wouldn’t start the day after we broke up as it was clearly my fault. He has bought her a (cheap) Range Rover. She now lives with him in a house he has a mortgage on, we were on an assured tenancy with a housing association.. She’s happy, she’s moved on, she used to tell me to move on and go on dating sites.

Looks all Rosie for her then doesn’t it.

I’d asked her numerous times to stop buying drugs from him, and to stop drinking as much (they are both borderline alcoholics) she didn’t want to and ran off with him. She has been hospitalised 3 or 4 times that I know of and now has health issues, more than likely caused by the drug abuse, definitely once through excessive drinking.
I receive letters/emails/texts through for things that she has missed payments on every month. Our kids have lost a lot of the respect they had for her because she has basically said she is using the guy for his money, and she was still sleeping with me behind his back for a year which kind of confirms she is using him.
The car that wouldn’t start, well it’s her pride and joy, owned it for 18 years and would never sell it. 2 months after she rang me ranting it wouldn’t start, it failed it’s mot and has sat in the garage for nearly 2 1/2 years waiting to be repaired. The car he bought her, well it looks fancy but it’s been sat outside his house broken down for the last month, and is regularly breaking down.
The house she is living in rent free, he needs to give half of that to his wife. His kids that live there do her f’ing head in according to her sister.
And the holidays abroad he takes her on, she has contracted skin cancer twice in two years so they are well worth going on.
Then there is the fact that I am now with someone else. They have never met but my ex keeps cropping up on my partners Facebook as someone she might know. I’m not on Facebook so we can only assume my ex has been stalking her.. They bumped into each other in a supermarket a few weeks ago. She then started making excuses to my sister in law as to why she looked a mess when she bumped into my girlfriend, which kind of tells me she is somewhat insecure
They are both still abusing drugs because the sad lives they lead is only bearable through the use of stimulants rather than having a proper healthy connection.

So the reality is far different to what they would like you to think. Call it karma, the universe balancing things out, or just negative reactions to all the bad actions and life choices made, but I don’t see them as coincidence, and I have no doubt that it’ll carry on happening until she learns life’s lessons. So concentrate on being the best version of you and less so on her because life has a way of levelling things out eventually.

BPDs are incredibly loving and caring people, especially at the start of the relationship.  Their mental illness tells them that everything about you is "perfect" so they shower you with love and affection.

Where in any of that sounds like a person we should avoid starting a relationship with?

Are there usually some red flags?  Of course.  I'm also in my second marriage and I saw potential red flags going in as well.  My current wife does not have mental illness though, so was I just as "fooled" as you were?  Or did we both choose women who loved us and took care of us?

The "secret" to a happy BPD marriage is learning a different way to communicate, especially when things begin to become heated.  This site has helped so many of us learn that language and put it into practice.  At the very top of any page, you'll see sections like "tips" and "tools", that's where you can really dig in and start to get a feel of how to communicate more effectively. 

It's not intuitive at first and we all see that we got it so so wrong in the past; that's okay though.  You learn and grow, exactly like she's doing in therapy.  That's where you actually start.

Do you have any specific questions so far?  Maybe talk out a little more of your current challenges.  Also, I'm so sorry to hear about your ex-wife.  That's heartbreaking.  I'm a Christian as well and I'm glad she finally found peace.

I remember that feeling very well, that sickness in the pit of my stomach when the phone rang and I knew it was going to be judgmental.  I overcame that to some extent by just not answering anymore.

Now, that did make things 10x worse when I did get home and there would be a huge blowout argument.  But I'd explain that she knew where I was, who I was with, what I was doing, and I arrived home when I said I would.  If she was going to act like I was a horrible person no matter what, then I'd just wait to be accused of being a horrible person once I got home.  I might as well enjoy me night until then if it's the same conclusion no matter what.

Sometimes this worked, sometimes it made things much worse.  I didn't realize it back then but I was essentially setting a boundary- if you use my phone to harass me, then I'm turning the phone off after the first unkind call/text.

With my BPD daughter, she always had to punish someone much, much greater than she was being punished to "teach them a lesson."  I didn't know my wife was mentally ill back then so I didn't understand the need for healthy boundaries, but basically that's what your husband and my ex do occasionally as well.  If they have to heat up their own food and watch TV alone, then you might as well know how miserable they are.  That's not okay though.

Sorry...I meant Dialectical Behavioral Therapy in the above post.

Pook, I've talked about my husband's controlling nature and seeming unwillingness for me to have a balanced life a few times.  Sometimes he admits to jealous feelings, and sometimes he admits he's not being rational.  But mostly, he makes promises not to overreact when I'm away.  You see, many times I go above and beyond to ensure my absence won't inconvenience him, by preparing food for him, and ensuring I'm out for the shortest time possible, and according to a strict plan (with no room for improvisation or deviation).  I'll say, "I'm having dinner with such-and-such girlfriend, you know, she attended our wedding, and we're meeting at this restaurant; since the drive time is 25 minutes each way, I'll be out three hours total, tops.  I left you some lasagna in the fridge, all you have to do is reheat it."  Then he'll say something like, "I can handle it, you know I was a bachelor for years and cooked for myself all the time, don't worry."  Well, that's what he says, no big deal, right?  But as the evening progresses, he typically flips and starts calling me, demanding to know why I don't pick up right away (usually restaurants are noisy and I don't hear my phone in my purse), where I am (I told him already), why I'm gone for so long (ditto), and how horrible I am for leaving him alone with nothing to eat (lie) . . .  He's not like this every time, but maybe 30-50% of the time.  It's happened so often that I'm sick of it, I flinch every time he calls, and I try really hard not to let him "ruin" it for me, but man, he punishes me for daring to leave the home and having a social life.  His issue:  I have a social life "without him."  Of course it's OK for him to have a social life without me, say with his sports and hobby buddies, but he doesn't see the unfairness of it.  And yet, when I invite him to outings, he's reluctant to go.  If he does relent and decides to accompany me, half the time he's a sourpuss and insists on leaving early, for example.  Or he'll pull me aside and chew me out for talking to other people at a party.  Not always, just often, depending on his mood and maybe what I'm wearing or the way I acted, for example if I took "too long" in the ladies' room (where there was a line) . . .

Indeed I do think that this sort of behavior is BPD-like, but he's not BPD the way his diagnosed daughter clearly is.  He doesn't exhibit feelings of hopelessness, he doesn't have disordered/volatile relationships everywhere, he's not impulsive in his actions in most environments, he doesn't self-sabotage, he's not suicidal or self-harming, his identity is solid and consistent, his executive function is extremely high.  I'd say he's somewhat insecure (with me), he's prone to angry outbursts and has some hair-trigger "abandonment" feelings which emerge as bullying.  And when he's agitated, he becomes irrational and petulant with me.

My coping skill is mostly to ignore it.  When I argue back, it gets worse.  I think he knows he's being a jerk but just can't help himself because deep down he's insecure, even though he shouldn't be!  That's what makes it even more confusing.  If he's really toxic and demanding unrealistic things (e.g. a curfew of 5 PM for me), I'll say, "Fine, but if I have a 5 PM curfew, so do you and all the other adults in this household.  I'm not a slave you know."  I know that's not helpful, but it has enabled me to avoid a 5 PM curfew that he continues to try to impose every few months.

I'm doing okay actually, I have got a great group of friends around me for support, and to be honest I do actually feel peaceful without him being around , I can sleep easier (his snoring was off the chart - made massively worse by drinking and the extra weight he's been carrying from just not looking after himself at all) I like coming home to a house that doesn't have an angry man in it and pleasing myself

His emails have ranged from saying what I would normally want to hear to passive aggressive and just plain paranoid

For example last night I emailed him and asked if we could put a plan in place for our dog- she's with him for the moment but is equally ours, he responded that as my message came in a significant song came on and that I had somehow tactically messaged him at a specific time.........he constantly accuses me of being orchestrative.

I'm not engaging at this point with any side swipes or being dragged into circular arguments.  I think I'm feeling the most detached I ever have .  He's told me the help he has been getting is to talk about how he feels- this is not what he led me to believe , I thought it was assessments, this previous round of therapy was my ultimatum last time he kicked off so the fact its not addressing what I thought it was (I was about to say surprising but its not really - his relationship with the truth is fluid).  I think it's taken me forming a support network to really bring things to a head .  He is absolutely vile when he's angry and drunk and disgusts me.

I think this is an important point. BPD affects the most intimate relationships the most, so the dynamics would be more with the intimate partner and immediate family. Living all together in one home would increase the face to face contact between family members. It also affects the partner and family members in that it is harder to maintain boundaries under pressure when in th the same space.

I agree with the concept of "not fighting back" during a verbal accusation. In the moment, the pwBPD believes this and to try to defend onself raises the drama. If it does no good, then there's no point in doing this. The techniques such as JADE can help bring the drama down. If one can sincerely say "I love you and I'm here for you" in the moment, that possibly works too but I think only if one can sincerely mean it as it would be hard to have that come across if one didn't.

I think everyone would wish to be seen as "good" by their partner or family member, but sometimes this role can land on the Karpman triangle. Also, since we can not change someone's thinking, someone can be split- good or bad, according to how the pwBPD feels in the moment, and isn't about something another person can do or say.

In my own situation, knowing I could be split as either in the good position or the persecutor one, I didn't consider this outcome as any measure of me. I could visit and do things for BPD mother and she might still find something to not be pleased with. I had to stay firm in knowing that- however she responded didn't change the intent or action on my part.

BPD mother could be nicer and more "normal" with people who are not as close to her, because, she also had the closer family members with whom she did act out more. Someone could be in "good" position, when someone or something else was in persecutor position.

Being in good position is helpful in that there's some leverage there if the pwBPD needs help with something. My BPD mother's extended family was in "good position".  BPD mother was more likely to be receptive to their advice than mine.

I also was able to hold boundaries better than my father and recognized that he lived with her, and I didn't. So I do believe proximity makes a difference for both people.

In my situation, I don't think I got into many arguments with BPD mother or "fought back". As kids, we weren't allowed to do that. I also at some point decided it was useless. I did yell at her one time, during my father's illness when I was stressed over the situation, and seeing her reaction- I just didn't want to do that again.

Your updates are heartbreaking, but at least it has led to positive steps for your home and your kids.  He clearly crossed a line and if he can't see it (which isn't unusual for mental illness) then he shouldn't be around. 

Maybe this is the thing that helps him realize that things have to change.  Maybe not.  But either way, you've done the right thing by saying "No thank you" to his abuse.

As far as the email accusations go, I would think you'd want to cut that off after sending a very clear message.  You didn't call the police because of your friends.  You called them because he was out of control and you've put up with his abusive behavior for far too long.  Now is the exact time to make that crystal clear...while he's out of the house and trying to win you back.

You might even want to list some of the regular stuff that's out of bounds- slamming doors, the complaining and attitudes, etc.  Now is the ideal time to put all of that in one email, then let him know that if he can't respect these boundaries, you'll block email as well.  It will not be used as a way to abuse you even further.

How are you doing?  What do you need right now?  Talk it out a little more.

After weeks of upda and downs- more like a month, we are now on limited contact.  I went on holiday with a friend and the whole time I was there he was love bombing me , telling me how much I mean to him etc.  He stayed at mine, got to payday- tried to have a non-confrontational conversation about if he'd be staying. 

He did stay , paid a portion of the month.  We even booked a trip together (a week this Saturday).  Everything was okay other than when I went to see friends.  In the short 2 weeks between booking the holiday he had kicked off more or less everytime I went to meet friends , or wasnt back in the time frame he's hoped.

My kids are sick of him shouting and banging doors and behaving like an overgrown toddler.

a week ago yesterday I called the police, my son was home, He was having a tantrum over a perceived rejection (it was the anniversary of my mum passing away, he was being silly and goofy with me and I just said I wasnt in the mood and just wanted to sit quietly watching TV. He lost it, the baked potatoes we bought for dinner he threw and smashed all over the floor, threw the dogs bowl of water over me and was yelling.  Enough was enough, I called the police and they removed him (he wasnt arrested at that point and I havent pursued a complaint at this time.

I have blocked him on everything other than email , he was intoxicated and says he "can't remember" anything and is going to "get help"

As far as I was aware he was already under therapy- I've asked for clarification and he's been fairly vague .  I pointed him in the direction of the Respect helpline UK for the abusive behaviour and that's not been an avenue he feels he needs to purse (it 100% is because he is abusive)

I've said I cannot have his instability around my children and any contact is contingent on seeking help and continual behavioural change, not vague reassurances because my trust is too damaged.  He has been abusive many times and promises are short lived .  I'm sure I'll be a c**t again tomorrow, he's just too unstable to deal with.

I cannot see this vacation being enjoyable or safe for me so I'll just have to write off the money and make other plans.

I am drained , he sent me a long email about other people getting involved in our relationship (my friends) being a problem, but the only issue there is they don't like how he treats me.  He refers to them as "the club" and says I keep getting advice from "the club.   No I just dont want to be abused!