I also remember the phrase "All couples fight" being thrown in my face whenever I said we were fighting too much and I didn't like it, and it wasn't healthy for our relationship or our daughter. 

I'd agonize over mentally wondering "how much was normal" or whether other couples fought like we did, and as often as we did.  It didn't seem like it to me.  And I'd question my judgment and motivation.  But the bottom line was I was uncomfortable with it, and that was what mattered.  It was too much for me, and I was communicating that to my partner and instead of being heard and communicating back, she was looking for ways to shut me up and justify her own behavior. 

Not all couples fight!  Some can have disagreements and make up quickly or agree to disagree without fighting.  Fighting is stupid.  Fighting shows two people can't communicate honestly with eachother and respect eachother as an individual. 

But you know, you hear these things, and you see the tropes in TV shows and you're susceptible to this nonsense from a manipulative person being used like that.   

Another incident today that has left me questioning my wife’s mentality and my sanity.

On Wednesday I got a message from a mate of mine suggesting meeting up for a pint. I went out and returned home about 10pm. I went upstairs about half an hour later to be met by my son coming out of his bedroom in a bit of a state. I looked at him and saw powder around his nose. He didn’t know what was going on and started repeatedly asking me for help.

I managed to calm him down and had a chat with him, he started to cry and kept apologising. I remained calm and he became settled and went to bed.

He had been taking ketamine. He has had problems in the past, but had assured me he had stopped and wouldn’t touch it again, but he relapsed.

I was reluctant to speak to his mother about it, given her history with drugs and who she is with. However, I was at home this afternoon when she dropped the dogs back from walking them.
I asked her if our son had spoken to her about last weeks events and she said he hadn’t and asked what it was about.

I explained to her that he had been out of it on drugs, and she asked if it was when he was out with his mates at the weekend. I told her it was at home in his bedroom while I was out. She said that she was shocked it was at home on his own and she could understand it if he was out with his mates.

I then replied with “I don’t want him doing it any when” which resulted in her playing the victim and said “oh I suppose it’s all my fault” and stormed off slamming the door on her way out.

I then did something I shouldn’t have and messaged her ‘that reaction screams of the personality disorder that completely f***ed our relationship’ to which she just responded ‘ok’
I then followed it up with ‘I am worried about our son yet you turn around and make it about you. That is NOT ok. Get a grip of yourself please’

Then followed some messages from her accusing me of getting sh*tty with her and getting the daggers out while she was in my house when all I had said was that I don’t want him doing it at all.

This exchange has left me a bit confused, did I over react? Did I personally attack her for saying what I said? (While she was in my home not the message) Is it bpd that caused her reaction or am I overreacting?

I'd say all this is a lot more than warning signs... I mean, from the initial meeting with her you described, she sounds very unstable and problematic.   

But yeah, certainly BPD or some similar behavioral disorder, and quite possibly multiple disorders in this one person.

pwBPD can be very good at co-opting political and social issues and verbiage, as well as popular wisdom and sayings to justify their own actions and selfishness. 

You have to ignore this, and fight through attempts by the pwBPD to use them to warp your own values and relationship; you have to have some fortitude and stay firm.  It's easier to stay balanced then, and not get swayed by some of this nonsense.

For example, "I'm reading this book and it says open relationships are totally normal."

You "Maybe they are, and I'm not judging anyone who's in them, but it's not something I want for us or something I'm comfortable with." 

...And at this point, you'd be well within reason to end the discussion; no need to justify your position.  Closed relationships are also totally normal!  Did you enter into marriage with the stipulation that she was allowed to have lovers on the side?  It doesn't sound like it from your posts, e.g. her saying that her bisexuality was in her past.  So why even entertain this when it goes against your values? 

Like everything else in their lives, I think pwBPD's political and social views are very shallow and always self-serving.  In my experience, BPDxw was (according to her) "very feministic" ...  but of course, only when it suited her.  She preferred to work with men and if it came down to hiring a woman or a man for something, she'd always hire the male or prefer to work with the male because according to her, she could manipulate men better than women.  When I had interactions with people she worked with, she was always cold to the other women and had a bunch of excuses why they didn't like her and why she couldn't stand them. 

And it was wrong for men to cheat... except when she learned an acquaintance she was feuding with was cheated on, in which case, I remember her defending the cheater and claiming the woman deserved it. 

And so on for everything else in her life... religion, politics, etc.  She was never consistent in any of this, and it's really a hodge-podge of left/right issues with no consistent ethic, and no moral compass guiding her, other than "how could this benefit me right now?"


Be careful here... I would not sleep on this issue.  Figure out more about this person and what their goals are.  You have kids together!  What kind of drama could this expose them to?  Your wife's "needs" - I put that in quotes, because wanting to have an affair is not a need - come in second to them. 

Welcome to BPDFamily!  You will find a supportive community here.  Though we're not here as professionals, we have accumulated an extensive wealth of collective wisdom here, hard-won insight, practical experience and time-tested strategies.

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Over the years this has been noted, that BPD/NPD relationships do continue much longer than we would otherwise think due to somehow meshing each other's patterns.  My ex had such parents, her SF was a NP child abuser and her M was a passive BP.  It immensely impacted her childhood and our adult lives.

I recall one incident during our engagement where I'd obtained an extra ticket to a highly anticipated religious event.  I invited her but her parents objected, saying they couldn't drive us.  We lived in a city with extensive public transportation systems, I reasoned we could travel that way.  Oh no, both said it was improper, without an escort what would strangers think?  Even when the minister who later married us, who was also invited along with his wife, offered to drive us in his own car, they refused to reconsider.  How dare I try to undermine their decision!

Way back then I was mystified how her stepfather and mother could be so united in unreason.  Though I really felt - even before we married - that I'd saved her from her childhood environment, but years later after we had a child ourselves, uBPD issues (undiagnosed) ended our marriage.

Sure, that's valid.  I just didn't know how I could share my viewpoint without prefacing it that my faith is what guides me.  I think it's an equally true standard for most non-religious homes as well- marriage is between two people and that commitment should mean something.

I 100% completely agree.  My advice there wasn't to suggest that you should be unfaithful (although, ironically, that was the question).  Instead, it's a subtle way to give your wife a dose of her own medicine to see if her opinions on an open marriage stay the same.

I also agree with Wendy that it's solely my moral opinion and might not be anyone else's.

I agree with this short, brief response. You've already said what you need to say.  She will make her own choices.

Monogamy is a value for me too. I think this is an example of a boundary- what is "me" and what isn't for me.

I don't think it's being closed minded. I don't look to judge other people for what works for them. I just know for myself, open marriage, poly, is a "no". It can be a "no" for you too, for whatever reasons you want it to be. I think many people have the same value.

I think pwBPD in general have a poor sense of self and poor boundaries and so may be more influenced by different ideas. They may think an open marriage or poly relationship is a good idea but what they think it is and the reality of it could be different.

I'm not excusing what your wife wants to do or condoning it. I would not want to be in your situation. However, I also think if someone wants to cheat, that is their action, not something we control. Our task would be how we deal with that if it happens.

One possible scenario is that this budding romance isn't what your wife believes it is. Sometimes it's the "forbidden fruit" that has appeal and you saying something like "ok what time will you come back" removes all of that. Your aren't giving her permission, or condoning her choice when you say that, you are just resigned to the fact that she's going to do what she chooses and choosing to not have a useless circular discussion over it.

What I have seen with BPD mother is that if someone is painted white, they also can be painted black. Your wife may go out one time, then change her mind or even come home early. Who knows. IMHO, I wouldn't even ask about how it went or discuss it. Just stay the course with your values.

Wendy, no, i believe none of that.  

And I agree, talking about it is circular and pointless.  W did bring up that she wanted to meet this woman for an activity yesterday.  I told her I preferred if they met during the day rather than the evening.  This turned into a huge argument that left me sleeping on the sofa.

From now on, my response will be “ok. What time will you be home?”  She knows how I feel.  No point in discussing it further.

I’m also learning this woman is basically homeless, yet has a job in the medical field.  This feels very suspicious and guaranteed drama.

Pook - I wouldn't call myself Christian, but I was raised with those values.  I work in a science field and explore reasons why things are they way are.  I see many evolutionary advantages to monogamous, stable relationships in terms of maximizing the time that can be expended on child raising and minimizing the time spent looking for and fighting over mates.  Also reduces transmission of disease. Those advantages may no longer be as valid in modern society, but there are reasons that monogamy is the standard for most marriages other than “God told me so”.  

Sorry I just saw this thread; I didn't get online at all this past weekend.

Think about this- at the heart of it all, you want to stop the conflict between you and your wife.  But what is conflict?

I'm not trying to be philosophical here.  Let's go deeper than that and be completely honest with each other.  How does the conflict start?  What is the catalyst?  Is it words exchanged...or familiar habits...where does conflict actually come from?

Most of us will say something like, "Well, she did this so I did that.  Then she got mad and said this...and then I got mad and she threw something at me."

That's what happened during the conflict, but it's not what actually caused it all to begin with.

Here's the thing- what happened doesn't matter.  Who started it doesn't matter.  Who was right or wrong doesn't matter.  The thing that actually matters is identifying what started the conflict and changing that one thing.

You're right, this is a form of radical acceptance.  I choose not to fight with my BPD ex, my BPD kid, their BPD family, and others.  I just won't do it, no matter what, because I know that there's nothing to gain.  Even if I'm 100% right and they're 100% wrong, fighting over it makes everyone lose just the same.

So I've accepted something greater than that.  I love those people and I'm not going to fight with them.  If they're upset, I'll lift them up if possible, and if it doesn't happen then I'll back away while extending grace.  I try not to judge them because I know what it's like to be upset over something.

MY BPD daughter, for instance, I'll love her no matter what she says or does.  That doesn't mean I agree with her decisions or support the things she does that puts her in danger, but she knows how I feel and I share my opinions sparingly (mainly when asked). 

That means we don't have to argue over that stuff anymore, we can skip those topics entirely most of the time, because that's no longer a dynamic of our relationship.  And at times, yes, I completely mess up and GO OFF on her when she's particularly reckless.  So this isn't about me being perfect either.  It's just not the thing that dominates our relationship anymore because my kid does not feel judged by me.

Right now, she's mad at me because of a repo she got a few years back because she wants to refinance.  She's mad because she expected me to swoop in and fix it, even though I wasn't financially able at the time.  And you know what, that's okay.  We don't live together and I don't have to be her best friend daily.  So I'm giving her ample space to figure this out on her own, but at the same time I still check in frequently over winter weather, etc. 

If she doesn't answer, then so be it...I accept that she's mentally ill and has to work through this on her own.  I'm perfectly content with her being mad at me (for something she did) because she has to process this herself.  I could demand an apology (which I'll never get) and suddenly, we're in the middle of a conflict that nobody can win.  I choose to skip all of that and just let her do her own thing until we speak again...and our relationship has never been better.