Hi there,

Only a professional can diagnose BPD, but it's not uncommon here to suspect possible BPD in a loved one.  The thing is, with BPD, a typical behavior is to blame other people for causing all sorts of problems.  That might hinder some self-reflection and prevent them from seeking therapy; or if they do get therapy, the focus might be on rehashing grievances, not necessarily on learning some better coping mechanisms and moving forward.

You can find the key criteria for a BPD diagnosis on this site.  As for your question, is BPD real, the answer is affirmative.  The thing is, human behavior and emotions are, after all, human.  We all can have strong emotions like anger, distrust, sadness, hopelessness, shame, emptiness, anxiety and love.  We all can exhibit behaviors like blaming, avoidance, impulsivity, lashing out, moodiness, infatuation, creating drama and self-sabotage sometimes.  I think the key difference is in degrees--the frequency, intensity and duration of negative thinking and behaviors.  With BPD, the consensus is that emotions are intense, often disproportionate to the situation.  I think that pwBPD feel constantly traumatized by ordinary life.  And the corresponding reactional behaviors--e.g. lashing out, impulsivity, blaming, self-harm, running away, attention-seeking or self-sabotage--can lead to dysfunction in many relationships.  The dysfunction tends to span across multiple dimensions as well as over time, for example romantic relationships, school, friendships, extended family, the workplace, etc.  Signs of dysfunction wouldn't be limited to just one "toxic" relationship, but would exhibit an overall pattern of volatile relationships and dysfunction in my opinion.

The good news is that BPD is treatable, provided that there's a firm commitment to change in the pwBPD.  Typically this would happen after the pwBPD "hit bottom" and had no other viable alternative but to get therapy and take it seriously.  In practice though, many pwBPD rely on others to take care of their needs, like housing, insurance, transportation, etc., and so though they're not exactly happy, they're content enough with the status quo.  It's just easier to blame others for all their problems, because to take responsibility would induce intense shame, which is painful.

The pwBPD in my life was diagnosed a few years ago.  Since then she's turned her life around.  Though she still has troubling emotions and distorted thinking, I'd say she's got them under better control right now.  Though she stumbles sometimes, she's much better at getting back "on track" again.  My guess is that she wouldn't strictly qualify for a BPD diagnosis anymore.  Maybe now she's someone who exhibits BPD traits from time to time, when she's really stressed.

I guess I'll close with one more idea.  There are some excellent tips on this site about how to relate to someone with BPD.  I think these skills are really valuable in all sorts of situations, and especially for dealing with high-conflict, "difficult" people and situations.  I've learned a lot here.

Since there are limits to which we can influence others in our lives, we can educate ourselves and learn time-tested communication skills - some not intuitive - to reduce the conflict and set better boundaries of behavior.

We may be inclined to use a lot of logical approaches (JADE = Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) that don't work well with these acting-out personality disorders.  They're too often consumed with their feelings (for them feelings = facts, especially in the moment) rather than objective reality.  Some more effective approaches are described in our Tools and Skills workshops board where SET, BIFF and others are described.

None of us are perfect - neither you, your spouse, me nor others here and elsewhere.  After all, we weren't built on a factory assembly line.  We are influenced by our genetics, childhood, environment and experiences in life.  Yet in general most do try to be "reasonably normal" despite some hopefully minimal issues.  Part of being reasonably normal is to look for the positives in our lives and relationships.

Sadly, some people such as persons with Borderline traits experience (euphoric) up and (negative) down cycles.  They get easily triggered and easily shift into seeing everything in negatives.  It's hard for then to regulate those negative, self-oriented feeling and look outside themselves.

The fact that you asked this question makes it likely that you are not seriously disordered.  Yet, as mentioned above, none of us are perfect - we all have quirks, mannerisms and whatnot - so we can always reflect on who we are and how we can improve in the future.  Not to beat ourselves down, but to look forward with goals.

I agree completely, you can only control you (and to some extent, the kids since they're little).  Your husband must control your husband and what you're doing is making it plainly clear that he has to make a choice.  That alone could be your catalyst and I really hope that it is someday.  Until then though, you have to continue living your life and not worry about what he might do.


Hey, that's awesome- it sounds like you've adjusted well over the past few months.  You seem to be doing everything right and have the priorities in order (you, then the kids).  All this stuff takes time and four months is such a short period of your life.  It will get easier, I promise!

Thanks to both of you for your replies, and for sharing your experiences with your loved ones with BPD. What you both shared is actually helpful information for me.

Pook075, it's very interesting that your daughter was in treatment for quite a few years without taking accountability, and then there was a triggering event that made her actually want to put in the work to get better. I especially relate to the part about her knowing all the DBT terms but not putting them into practice and also using her sessions for validation. With my husband, I started to realize that it's not about being in treatment that helps, it is really wanting to heal, which he hasn't demonstrated yet. That is obviously not in my control, and any potential catalyst for change that spurs this desire (ie a life changing event) is not in my control either. So I think it makes sense for me to relinquish control (which was an illusion anyway), stop trying so hard to "make it work", and just leave my husband to figure it out for himself or not. Rather than continually trying to rescue him, or get him a better therapist, or ponder how to talk to him so he will follow through etc.

In regard to my needs, since this latest "silence period " from my husband started about 4 months ago, I have been really focusing on myself now that I am not sucked into the drama cycle anymore. I don't necessarily have time or capacity to do everything I want to, as I am essentially a single mother to two toddlers (I would LOVE to take a pottery class!! I just can't at the moment). But I live life to the fullest with my children doing whatever makes us all healthy, happy and fulfilled. I admit that it is hard at times to ignore the background worry about my husband and the future, which I think is normal given my situation. But I do try my best to keep it in the background of my mind, and I also don't talk about any issues in front of my kids, as I want them to feel as secure as possible.

CC43, your story with your pwBPD is also enlightening, as it shows what I finally came to conclude - that rescuing and trying to "fix" the pwBPD does not help and just perpetuates the cycle. As stated before, we can't control if they work on themselves or not, and at least it gives us some peace if we stop trying to hard, at the expense of our own mental health. Also, if there is any possibility of them getting better, I think it would be safe to conclude that it would most likely happen not from us rescuing them, but from them figuring things out for themselves. I don't necessarily regret the years of initial work I put in to help get him into therapy, explain to him why DBT would be a good therapy modality for him etc., as I think that was not called rescuing yet and was actually beneficial. But at a certain point, now that the resources are in place, I need to let him find his wings to fly - or if he can't fly, I don't want to be on his back while he falls to the ground!

I guess what weighs the most on my mind now is what to do regarding my future? How long is it reasonable to wait for him and see if he can figure it out? I know this not a question that anyone can really answer for me, but that's what I'm grappling with now. For the people whose pwBPD is a child, there's really no question like this, as there is no "moving on". For those in a relationship, it's a bit different.

Thank you these are all fantastic. Perspectives. Some of them very a little and that gives me something to think about by contrasting the advice.  The advice about having them read aloud with a foreign accent is really funny to me.  Funnier still to me is the image of losing my patience after about 20 seconds because the damn emails are so long.  If she really knew me and was thinking about my perspective, it would occur to her that this man isn’t wired to read this entire email. He’s never gonna read the whole thing.

Thank you support perspective and input and advice on this board has been invaluable throughout this growth and transition.

girlfriedn making me cry Becuz she keeps cheeting on me or bulying me And makifg me sad Then she cuddles and luvs and tell  me Everthing I wana hear an d this hapens Over and oebr agan. I am Confused. 

Yes, you both do and it's important that you protect that relationship with your daughter.

I don't know why, but my BPD mother would triangulate- get another person to listen to her complaints about a third person, and sometimes that was me. I don't know all she has said to others about me but I know some, because she did it with my in laws and tried to do it with my H. They didn't listen to her or believe it.

But my mother's extended family and friends, and possibly even my father did (or he didn't but went along with her to keep the peace). I found out some of it accidentally. Someone in her FOO hit reply all on an email thread I was in. They were discussing someone in a negative way . I thought at first they were speaking about my mother, but after reading it, I realized they were discussing me.

This began what turned into years of estrangement between me and my mother's FOO, not by my choice alone. Later, after spending more time with BPD mother, her FOO began to see the bigger picture of her behavior. They apologized to me and we have been trying to reconnect.

I think trust in a parent and other family members is essential to a child, no matter how old that child is. I think there are situations where separation is necessary- for safety- emotional or physical, but none of this applied to them distancing from me in this situation. I couldn't trust my mother but I did have trust in the other relationships. Forgiveness is possible but trust is hard to regain.

Your D trusts you. This is precious. It's good that you are protecting it.

Hi.  BPD is real.  But none of us here on this site can diagnose your husband.  I suggest you meet with a therapist who is knowledgeable in this area and discuss your concerns to gain their insight.

Hi Horselover,

I think you're onto something here.  I can relate to an ongoing underlying concern about the ability of the pwBPD in my life to pull herself together of her own accord.  I'd like to share with you a subtle mind-shift I made a while back.  You see, historically, the pwBPD in my life would mess up (and give up!) as well as show significant signs of distress.  An example might be, she'd lose her job, fight with her roommates, have a meltdown and move in with her dad and me.  Obviously she was torn up about the situation and her life in general.  And her dad and I would try to help, by consoling her, helping her to get back on her feet, helping her move her stuff, offering to help her search for jobs, giving her money so she wouldn't go without, trying to do something fun/nice to ease her funk, etc.  Typically she'd accept the "help," but the positive effects were only temporary.  Why?  Because virtually all the effort was coming from her dad and me.  She was basically a passive recipient of good will.  And when the good will dried up, nothing changed, she was still stuck.

So here's the mind shift I made.  I had to acknowledge that I couldn't fix her problems, and I wasn't responsible for them, either.  By doing too much, I was probably getting in her way of taking responsibility for her own life, for pulling herself together so to speak.  That was hard for me, because I'm naturally a doer and a generally helpful person.  In contrast, she tends to be a dreamer, full of intention, but with seemingly little practical experience, let alone follow through.  Historically, she'd declare her intentions and half-expect others to fulfill them for her.  "I want to move to the city / I'm going to be an artist / I need plastic surgery / I going to move abroad to Paris / I'm going to volunteer in Gaza."  The "old me" would ask practical questions.  The "old me" would offer tips, suggestions and potential contacts.  The "old me" would gently caution about the practicalities, e.g. the expense, administrative burdens, logistics, safety considerations.  In essence, anything the "old me" did short of making her (delusional) dream come true, probably made her feel both incompetent and disappointed.  So now my mindset is, if she really wants something, she'll make it happen for herself.  Now my response is something along the lines of, "I can see why you'd want that.  It sounds really cool."  And that's about it.  At first, I think she was shocked that nobody was making her big dreams come true.  But when she discovered that nobody was going to make her life happen for her, eventually she started doing things for herself.  And I think that shows remarkable progress.

So my advice on something like visitation would be for you to provide (safe and reasonable) access to the kids, and that's it.  I think your husband should be the one to make visitation happen.  He should come up with the plan, ask for your consent, make the arrangements and then follow through.  Sure, he can vocalize his intentions as much as he wants (I want to take the kids to Disney . . . I want to call the kids every day).  My response would be something like, "I'm sure the kids would like that."  But let him come up with workable dates and times (e.g. not during school), tickets, accommodations, the works.  He needs to be the one to make it happen.  Sure, he might talk about it to the kids, and if he doesn't follow through, they are going to be disappointed, but they probably already know he's like that . . . talking about big plans but not necessarily making them happen.  I don't think you can prevent your husband from vocalizing his big dreams to the kids when he's with them.  But what you can do is push the responsibility to him to make visitation / phone calls happen.  It may be that when he is faced with the onus of planning and executution, he doesn't see or talk with the kids that much.  But my opinion is, though it's sad, it's probably a reflection of the reality that your husband isn't in a good enough place to reliably execute on basic plans, and therefore contact with the kids is probably not ideal.  Does that make sense?