Hi JazzSinger, I read again with great interest your interaction with your BPDH as I believe we are all of a similar age group.

I do get moments of thinking I would be better off alone but then like you the practicalities of life come to my attention. I know I couldn’t give up my home and lifestyle with my adult kids and my darling grand children to go it alone in reduced income and circumstances. So I manage to live as best I can amidst the turmoil and disregs BPD brings into my life. Of course if there was violence involved that would be a different thing. Does your husband threaten or has he hit you.?

Hope things go more smoothly for you again after this period of intense disruption.
All best

I am venting to this community. Some of your posts resonated deeply with me. A major caveat is I don't have an official diagnosis for my family member, but he won't really participate in counseling/discussions with providers or even acknowledge there may be a problem.

We raised my stepson for 16 years. Leading up to highschool he displayed a theme of defiance. Potty training, eating, getting him to do hygiene (brush teeth, etc.), do homework etc seemed like a futile effort. Unlike our other 3 boys, he consistently received emails home from school (elementary, middle, and high school) that were beyond normal teacher communications. We gave him the benefit of the doubt up until about 8th grade when literally every teacher in the parent teacher conferences more or less said he's a menace in class.

In this same timeframe he got suspended for brandishing a knife at another student, and also for throwing a rock through a teacher's car window in the parking lot. He swore up and down it was an accident, but I'm not sure how you accidentally chuck a rock into a parking lot full of cars. We received a text from his ex girlfriend's mom that he flipped her off at school, he swore up an down she was crazy. He aggressively started down a male adult neighbor when he was asked to leave their home. Later, we would find him texting very degrading and aggressive content to the daughter of that same household when she wouldn't go along with his "disobey your dad!" plan.

The entire time, his bio dad would make comments to my wife such as "he would NEVER do that here" and "you just need to be more strict!" The same bio dad racked up a ton of child support arrears and did not contribute to the massive medical bills this child required such as a 5k dental bill (he needs anesthesia because he literally will not tolerate normal treatment, he will flail around and scream and the providers give up). We became particularly sensitive to this hypocrisy over time from both their household and from the rest of our family who would be quite dismissive of us when we discussed our concerns that this child isn't developmentally where he should be. Therapy was a non-starter, he treats it like a game and even explicitly told his mom he would be happy to waste all her money on it.

Eventually things hit peak tension in our home. We eliminated any ways for him to get around our basic rules of "no smart phone apps if you're failing class." That included changing wifi password, finding his burner phone he brought from his dad's, adding a pin to the game console during the school week. He blew up, wrote some of the nastiest content either my wife and I have ever received, and moved in with is dad. He has refused to discuss any of the incidents with us going on over a year now. The updates we receive from the other house are generally descriptive of wild mood swings and the same difficulties we tried to articulate for years. They recently switched him from a normal therapist to a psychiatrist (because "it's not working!") and are trying Prozac. Surprise, he 'lost' his first bottle of Prozac and they had to get my wife to call the pharmacy for an exception refill. I'm validated on one hand that their house is finally seeing what we saw, but I also feel like the entire situation is completely unfair and ridiculous after we were the only ones for years to be pointing out the obvious. The harder we tried, the worse things blew up in our faces.

His only outreach now is to ask for rides. We have invited him to rebuild and heal in a safe talking environment and he had rejected these invitations. After all, everything is our fault so why should he have to do anything? We've tried to explain our viewpoint that proceeding as if nothing happened isn't healthy and it isn't healing, it's just avoidant and kicking the can down the road, and ultimately counterproductive.

The other three boys gel like we expect normal kids to gel in a communal environment. Sure there's bickering, but there are no blood feuds.

I hold out hope he will return and want to be a part of our family. I hope more that he gets his brain settled. I am profoundly sad and regretful that things have turned out this way.

One of my lasting learning experiences was from my divorce.  Court always studiously ignored the mental health factors of divorcing couples.  It treated them as they were and did not try to "fix" either litigant.  In my own case, it was only after 8 years in and out of court for parenting issues that at last a magistrate observed that my ex needed counseling... but even then didn't order it.  My takeaway was that there is wisdom on following some aspects of that example.

Adults are not just allowed to live their lives as they choose, it's not up to us to live other people's lives.  Sometimes, though, we get so frustrated that others, especially the messed up ones, don't let us live our own lives.

Others can inform us, especially when they share information that can be helpful, but as adults we are responsible for our own lives and decisions.

I agree that you should be able to choose. I chose as well. My only warning is that they can choose to react.

I did choose to have boundaries, BPD mother reacted and so did Dad. The cost to me was the relationship with my father. She rallied Dad to her side, he got angry at me and remained that way until he died.

I was treated like a stranger at his funeral. I actually didn't want to go because it would be BPD mother there and her flying monkeys. I was too upset over Dad passing to be around them. My kids wanted to go, so I went because of them.

BPD mother told her extended family to stop speaking to me and they did- for years. People I thought cared about me.

You feel ready to take this on with your new boundaries because, it's your right and your choice to end your participation in this crazy disfunction. I felt that way too, but I had no idea what I was stepping into. It was like stepping into a bull pen with a mad out of control BPD mother bull and emotionally getting tossed around.  Never in a million years did I think Dad, would react like he did to me or that family would stop speaking to me.

I can feel your resentment and frustration in your posts and I understand it. I felt it too. You want to stop this soul sucking cycle. I did too but I was naive to the consequences of doing so. Maybe it would have gone the way it did anyway, even if I had waited or had more skills in place before doing so. Just know it can happen.

You'd do well to really read through a lot of the information on this site. 

It also helps you to make decisions on how you want to handle this relationship.  a brief journal of how things are each day can also help, especially if you are a "forgive and forget" kind of person like I am, or was. 

I understand this take, but the issue here isn't HOW I respond to my mom but that I should be able to CHOOSE how I respond to her and what my relationship with her looks like. If she complained about the education gap to me, I might (or might not) respond as you suggest without prompting (she hasn't; I live 500 miles away intentionally and we don't talk often).

The boundary that needs set is not with my mom, but with my dad, to make it clear that I do not want to be his proxy in his efforts to always meet my mom's emotional needs. He has always placated her, despite the harm it caused us as children. Now he is getting older, and frankly I think it's harder to keep up with her because he has less energy and age-related health issues. More and more, he's "tagging in" the kids for help of this kind. And to clarify, the request isn't to simply encourage her that she could take a few classes; it's to research options that he can share with her, and, as my sister paraphrased it, to "pour it on a bit heavy" with compliments about how much we appreciate her.

One thing I've discussed a lot in therapy is how I struggle to express genuine affection with my family members, despite the fact that I do love them deeply. I do not have this same challenge with others who are close to me. One reason for this is because I feel like everything in my family is performative, as the whole family unit has adapted to keep my mom on track. She needs grand gestures and flowery expressions of love and devotion to fill the void of her own lacking self image, and my dad is conditioned to provide that. And she assumes that everyone else needs that same sort of over validation, so she has also conditioned my dad to interact with everyone in that way. If he fails to provide enough flattery or profuse gratitude to someone when she think it's merited, she will lecture him.

So now he interacts with me in that way too. We planned a 50th anniversary celebration for them this summer, and I think he thanked me about 5,236 times. After the 1,000th time, I ran out of ways to say "you're welcome." As someone who values authenticity and simple but sincere expressions of affection and gratitude, I find this play-acting utterly exhausting. But if I opt out, I'm labeled ungrateful. I truly want to have close relationships with my family and be able to express to them how I feel, but if that's ever going to happen, it has to be in authentic way. These kinds of requests make authenticity feel impossible. I know it sounds like a small ask--just compliment her. But it's a never ending cycle and it honestly feels soul sucking.

The "there's no harm in {insert seemingly benign request here}" approach is actually the mindset I am trying to sort out how to address as I navigate this. Because, in fact, there is great harm. It's once again putting my mom's needs in front of everyone else's for the sake of peace. Watching that example growing up is what landed me in an abusive and toxic marriage. How to explain the harm in something that seems so benign on the surface is where I struggle.

Thank you all for the very wise consult. My children are adults, and as many of you have said, they will have their own boundaries (which I am proud that they do), and their own personal approaches to holidays. They have felt over the years that I have chosen this relationship over them, especially when they were not adults, and having her around makes that worse for them now.

I am particularly interested in the "marriage as a fix" component as she has asked for marriage for a long time, but instead of leaving and moving on, we continue in a very damaging pattern. I say no, it is not for me, and she breaks up in a very volatile way, and then the same evening or next morning calls and says she doesn't want to leave. Leave marriage aside, this pattern of breaking up happens every month since the beginning of our relationship. My children have witnessed it up close and that is one reason they will not entertain it again.

I forever feel like her cup is never filled. To add to all of this, she told me over the weekend that she has tapered herself off her medication. This is also not new. Thank you for saying that actions are more important than words.

This is a huge plus- even if it's not all you wished or hoped for. Yes, there is still hurt and loss of trust for your H. That's inevitable, but it's also a big step for stepson.

I think it's great that your H held it together. For the son- this was like "sticking a toe in the water" to test the temperature.  If your H had responded angrily- the son may have just pulled back altogether.

My father didn't come forward with any explanation or apology for BPD mother's behavior or his compliance with it. I think it's almost too much to recognize. It he were to do this- he'd have to see it, others would see it and ask why are you staying with her.

Wife thinks everybody hates her- she's in victim perspective, your stepson is rescuer. That she's cut contact with others in her family would be evidence that her issues aren't just with you and your H.

You are going for the long game here- an ongoing connection with your step son and grandchildren. Hopefully he will want to do this again. It's possible that his wife didn't even know he met his father, and if she did, as Pook said, it would be WW3 in the house. I'd be careful about texing him anything about the visit as she probably checks his phone. Something like "thinking of you and wife ( be sure to include the wife) and grandchild #1 (nothing about #2- keep the secret) and wishing you all a Merry Christmas is a nice (and more neutral) message.

My BPD mother did not like my father's family and she would say it to us. It was mutual but they kept quiet about it and included her on invites which she mostly didn't accept. I assumed that after my father was gone, they'd have nothing to do with each other. They had a family get together and didn't include her. She was angry. I asked her why she was- she didn't like them, and would not have attended and her response was that she "should have been included as my father's wife". So e. ven if she didn't like them and would have not attended- she still wanted them to reach out to her, to include her.

In her victim perspective, she didn't always seem to be aware of the impact of her behavior on other people ( and sometimes she did it on purpose). Also consider projection. If she didn't like someone it was because "they didn't like her". Your son has her ear and hears what she tells him. There's no telling what the reason she told the son to not contact the father- so he may not even know there's something to apologize for.  Glad your H set the story straight but for him it may be that he's heard it the first time and was processing it.

Hi there,

I think I remember your story.  I know you're upset about a lack of apology and continued alienation between your husband, son and grandchild.  But what I see is a baby step of progress with a meet-up.  I think it's a good thing that your stepson was able to resume contact with his dad.  However, I strongly suspect that his wife is controlling him, and probably distorting reality with lies, twisted stories/perceptions and threats.  PwBPD can be incredibly persistent and exert so much pressure that your son could be completely frazzled, living in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  He might not be thinking clearly under the constant pressure and abuse.  My guess is she punishes him every time she finds out he has any contact with you.

I understand that you and your husband feel extremely hurt by estrangement that isn't warranted.  That is painful indeed.  But I suspect that the pain your stepson is feeling is far greater.  If I were in your shoes, I think I'd not expect an apology, because your stepson isn't in a good place right now.  He probably needs to prioritize his feelings and his children's welfare over your feelings.  I suspect he desperately needs your support, even if it's just knowing that you're there for him.  He might not be allowed to see you or talk with you, and I bet his wife is painting you as pure evil.  I'd be grateful for having the one in-person visit.  With some luck and patience, your son might start reaching out more frequently.  With BPD, I find it's helpful to think in terms of baby steps.  Change tends to be very slow and incremental at first.

I'm sorry for the mixed feelings.  I find that BPD sometimes brings resentment, that feeling of indignation from being treated unfairly.  Unfortunately, that's life with untreated BPD.  I bet your stepson is in a very, very tough spot.  I think it's hard to really understand how tough it is until you actually have to live with someone with untreated BPD for an extended period.  In a way, the behaviors defy logic, which can make understanding more difficult.  

At least you received an update, and like I said several months back, I feel really really bad for your husband's son in the matter.

Think about it- you have one kid (soon to be two) with someone you genuinely love and care for.  Yet, they're drawing lines in the sand and continually saying how the parents are out to get her, mean to her, etc.  If he defends you guys, then the anger turns on him and it's a very rough week.  So he totes the line, trying to be a peacemaker, and keeps his feelings squarely to himself.

You want an apology.  Imagine if the son apologized and somehow, the wife found out about it.  That would be the start of WWIII in their home as she completely unraveled.  "How could you take their side," she'd say.  It's a total mess and my heart goes out to the guy.

I know this (as do so many others here) because we've been in the exact same position with a BPD spouse.  It's often just easier to nod and remain silent than it is to experience the storm of emotions that tear households apart.  Because that's the thing, even if he's positive she's wrong...that's the mother of his kid that he spends his life with.  He's smart enough not to poke the bear.

Again, at least he reached out and provided updates, spend some time with dad, etc.  That's great news!