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 81 
 on: December 18, 2025, 12:24:00 AM  
Started by Misty93 - Last post by Misty93
Thank you Sancho. Great ideas, I appreciate the encouraging words and thoughtful reply.

Things here are just ok. With the move out date approaching on May 1, she has spiraled a couple of times about not being able to afford anything, or get to work (she just started a new full time job this week which will be amazing for her once she settles into it), etc etc. I can see her splitting on me, and the guilt tripping is ramped back up. This time I see it for what it is and I practice validating her feelings, and then naming my own limits, including when it’s time for the conversation to end.
I find myself very much looking forward to the day she doesn’t live here anymore. I am tired.

 82 
 on: December 17, 2025, 11:55:29 PM  
Started by campbembpd - Last post by ForeverDad
Since your marriage's future is in doubt, it would be wise for you to interview some family law attorneys so you can determine your legal standing in your local courts should there be more conflict.  Not just any lawyer will be up to the task of protecting you from the chaos, obstruction and sabotage a BPD spouse can and will cause.  So what counts is that your lawyer, if needed is experienced and proactive.

I sought my first lawyer after I had already separated.  Unfortunately she was from a neighboring county and new to the family law courts.  She admitted she was out of her depth and so named someone she respected in my county.  By then my ex had made "unsubstantiated" allegations for which I was unprepared.  I regret I didn't do my homework much earlier - choosing an experienced lawyer - and had to play catch up.  That's why I say it would be prudent to do legal consultations sooner than later, especially since you have no idea when you'll desperately need one.

This should be done privately and confidentially.  You have a right to privacy and confidentiality.  This is one of those situations where sharing too much information (TMI) can result in enabling your spouse to sabotage and obstruct you.

While yes you need to be open and above board on financial matters but even so you don't share all your strategies, again doing so too often exposes you to sabotage and obstruction.  Remember the old saying, Loose lips sink ships?  Don't sink your own ship.

 83 
 on: December 17, 2025, 08:36:34 PM  
Started by campbembpd - Last post by CC43
Hi again,

My sister escaped with her young children from an abusive relationship with an uNPD that ended with domestic violence, which two of three young children witnessed. There were all sorts of signs and building tensions that preceded the altercation, but even so, my sister was was surprised by the extent of the drunken violence.  After getting the kids out of the house and settling her nerves (trying to remain calm for the sake of her children), she called the cops, who proceeded to remove her husband and countless leathal weapons from the household.  Shortly therafter she got a temporary restraining order, which fortunately was further extended.  I guess it's no surprise that in court, her ex alleged that SHE was the one who attacked HIM (which is totally delusional, and she had the bruise marks to prove it).  She was so frightened that he'd violate the restraining order that she fled the marital home just a couple days later.  She and her kids stayed with me for a night.  One of her kids thought she was having an adventurous vacation and exclaimed, "This is the best night of my life," and I almost cried.  Then they flew across the country to stay with my parents.  Once the kids were safe, my sister returned to her house, hired movers, took her stuff and put it in storage, leaving her husband's things behind.  Somehow, the movers understood this was a crisis situation and got the move scheduled right away, a day or two after she called.  Since her ex was subject to a restraining order, he didn't find out that she had abandoned the home until a few weeks later.

My sister probably didn't plan the "ideal" escape because she moved the kids out of state, and technically she didn't have the courts' or her husband's permission to do this.  But she felt her husband was too hostile and threatening, and that he might physically harm the kids, especially because he had kept all sorts of weapons around the house (semi-automatic weapons, pistols, a cross-bow, knives and hundreds of rounds).  As a person with undiagnosed NPD, he can be extremely conniving, manipulative and vindictive.  Since the altercation happened right before the time that Covid broke out, the courts shut down, and CPS grinded to a halt.  She basically got a couple "freebie" years with very limited interaction with the abusive husband/dad.  It was little surprise to me that he barely tried to telephone his own kids during those months.  It was also no surprise to me that he got let go from his job right after the altercation.  He was so dysfunctional (especially without my sister catering to his every need as she did when they were married) that he has remained unemployed ever since.

Anyway, there are some things you can do to prepare for a potential escape/separation, should the situation come to that.  I hope things don't get that bad for you, I really don't.  But by the same token, I think my sister knew in her gut that her marriage was falling apart, and that her husband suffered from severe, untreated mental illness.  I didn't see it at first, because I didn't live it.  She would share stories of behaviors that seemed really out there, almost incredible--I thought she was exaggerating, and suffering from the stress of young motherhood with triplets.  At the same time, I was dealing with emerging BPD in my own family, and I didn't really understand that at the time, either.  But now I think I understand what's going on, and the delusional behavioral patterns seem much clearer to me now.  I think there are so many similarities with BPD and NPD, it's almost scary, even though from the outside, the individuals in question seem very different!

I don't have all the answers, but there are centers for domestic violence that could point you in the right direction and perhaps provide good tips and resources.  It's probably very helpful if you have family nearby, as they could keep some of your things safe, and maybe provide lodging, plus logistical and moral support.  You might consider getting a cheap burner phone, a post office box, a safe deposit box and back-up computer if you think your wife is surveilling you, or worse, destroying your belongings and documentation.  And of course, get your finances under control.  Getting finances under control will make you feel more secure and calm.  I tend to think that money isn't just about buying things, but buying options and security.  Once you have more options and security, I bet things will start to feel a little easier for you.

Anyway, my sister has been involved in her divorce battle for six years, and fortunately, the courts sided with her.  The NPD self-destructive behaviors ran their course, and thankfully, the professionals (CPS and judge) saw through his facade.  I think I have a few takeaways for you.  The first is, document, document document!  Recording conversations is a good start.  Try to get things in writing if you can, via texts or emails.  Second, the courts emphasize the welfare of the children.  Documentation of abusive/dangerous/violent behavior towards children carried the most weight, and that includes emotional abuse and parentification.  Third, CPS is expensive and slow, and it's important to get an experienced person assigned to your case should you go that route.  An inexperienced person might not have the ability to recognize the harmful BPD/NPF/addictive behaviors.  Fourth, as you probably know, pwNPD and pwBPD are notorious for not cooperating.  You might get a highly detailed a parenting plan, and there might be a detailed division of marital assets, but a key issue is non-compliance/non-cooperation on the part of pwBPD/NPD.  Enforcement of plans is costly in terms of legal fees, as well as the time it takes for a judge to make a ruling, let alone force compliance.  Therefore, you need to plan ahead for non-compliance/non-cooperation issues when it comes to separation and co-parenting.  I think courts try to be "too fair," thinking that adults will act like adults.  But pwBPD/NPD don't play fair.  Here's an example:  A "default" parenting/visitation plan might stipulate that parents exchange children at a specified time at a neutral location, halfway between the parents' homes.  That works if everyone shows up, on schedule.  But in my sister's case, her ex with NPD would be a no-show (with no advance warning) at half of the exchanges, and he'd be terribly late (45 minutes or more) the other times.  Driving three young kids to an exchange point, having them sitting, waiting and looking for dad, wondering if he will show up, asking if he's OK and why he doesn't want to see them, feels cruel.  Moreover, his lateness means they might miss their activities, their dinner is delayed (they are starving), they are restless/bored waiting in the car, etc.  It's really hard on kids when pwBPD/NPD are non-compliant.  You might think, well there's traffic, or he's busy.  Yes, you're reasonable.  But he's NOT.  He's unemployed and has a million excuses, but at the end of the day, he thinks he's SPECIAL and EXEMPT from rules, including being on time for his own kids.  He doesn't consider one bit how his behavior affects his kids, because the only thing that matters is what he wants.  Sound familiar?  It's because that's part of mental illness, and the courts just don't see that every day.  But you do.  So a way to combat this is to have a parenting plan that EXPECTS non-compliance.  One way to do this would be to insist that your ex drives to your house to pick up the kids.  If she's a no-show, then she loses visitation for the day.  In other words, make sure the kids don't suffer the consequences when your ex is non-compliant.

Finally, if you think your kids are suffering (they probably are if you are), you might consider trying therapy.  My sister arranged therapy from time to time, for whichever kid seemed to be struggling most.  She kept at it until she felt therapy wasn't helping anymore, and then she'd stop.  You might be able to investigate affordable therapy options as well.  The schools might be able to help you there.

 84 
 on: December 17, 2025, 04:52:37 PM  
Started by Cjay85 - Last post by PeteWitsend
Thank you all for the kind words and support. I've stayed no contact for two months, and it's been helping, just learning more about myself, and the positive thing I have learned from this relationship is to love yourself more and stay firm with boundaries. I felt stupid at first (I don't feel this way anymore) because I kept ignoring my needs, my gut, and the red flags. And there has been a smear campaign, saying terrible things about me, which I heard recently, but it's proving to myself that this is who they are, and I know that I really have made the right decision. It's just been a whirlwind of emotions! You feel sorry for them, then it turns into righteous anger, and then you feel pity for them. But I keep telling myself this is a mental illness and there's nothing I can do. All I can do is heal and continue my life to the best of my ability. Overall, I am feeling better mentally and physically now that I have left, which is also a huge sign that it was clearly an unhealthy relationship, but it's funny you don't see it while you're in it. Haha.

You learned these lessons way sooner than I did, and you also learned them before you got in too deep.  Some of us get burned and keep touching the "hot plate" longer than we should.  you didn't. 

The way I see some of this, there's not a guide book you get when you turn 18 that tells you about BPD - or behavioral disorders generally.  They're particularly insidious because the people that have them learn by trial and error to hide them and to weasel their way deeper into the Nons' lives.  And so sometimes you have to experience them to really understand. 

When I first learned about BPD - on a very different message board - I remember some people chastising me for being "Mr. Nice Guy" for tolerating it for so long, and did so in a not very kind way.  I think that is unfair; pwBPD in some ways prey upon those of us who try to be good.  The ability to have a thick skin, tough hard times out, help others, be committed to their partners, etc. are all considered positive personal traits, but they also make us susceptible to people that have learned to take advantage of the naivete in others.  But that's all it is, and naivete is not a permanent personal trait.  You can lose it over time, and it sounds like you've lost yours ahead of schedule.

 85 
 on: December 17, 2025, 04:40:13 PM  
Started by campbembpd - Last post by PeteWitsend
...While the pwBPD in my life wasn't intentionally destructive with possessions when she was raging, her prevailing attitude was not to care about anything in a passive-aggressive way.  ...

Yeah, there's like a "rich tapestry" of issues that seem to flow from BPD, and a lack of personal responsibility or a cavalier attitude toward other people's things, feelings, finances, etc. seems to be a hallmark of it.  It doesn't really matter why; it's wrong and not justifiable period.  Accepting their excuses contributes to the problem, as I see it now. 

In my case, the behavior from BPDxw was more destructive and mean spirited than thoughtless or ditsy.  I remember around the time she started living with me, I noticed she would pick apart the vinyl, faux-leather covering on my couch (it was admittedly not an expensive couch).  It bothered me, but I was too shocked by the behavior from someone I considered an adult - and my girlfriend - and the fact that she called it "cheap" to say anything. 

I see now that it was part of the "grooming" process.  I knew even at this early stage in our relationship that if I had called it out and gotten angry over this pointless destruction of my property - AND RIGHTFULLY SO! - it would've been a fight.  She would've found a way to blame me for having "cheap" furniture, and tried to flip the script so that I was wrong for trying to make her accountable for her actions.  So I said nothing.  The lesson for both of us I guess was that if we were going to be together, this sort of thing was acceptable.  She could behave however she wanted to me, and I would accept it. 

At the time I really struggled to understand this sort of thing.  It was a foreign concept to me that someone who purportedly loved me and wanted to be with me would behave like that to me.  But I had a lot to learn...

 86 
 on: December 17, 2025, 04:35:24 PM  
Started by Casablanca - Last post by Casablanca
 Hello, I am new to the whole thing of seeking help. My daughter is 22 and has BPD and now has a 3 year old son who is autistic. I hit the trifecta. I am all alone and I don’t live, I exist. I feel like a mummy and fear and anxiety are my constant companion. I am drained financially, and emotionally. I have nothing left to give and do not talk and share since every advice people give me sucks and doesn’t work. I am afraid of getting cancer like my mother and all my life I looked after my parents as caregiver and slave and now I will do the same for my daughter until I die and this was my life. Slavery and abuse and heartache and hurt.

 87 
 on: December 17, 2025, 03:50:17 PM  
Started by campbembpd - Last post by campbembpd
So many great comments and helpful tips...

NW - you're right. Absolutely I knew it wasn't the HRT at the core, I really did. But had a glimmer of hope we could possibly have a dialogue. Now I am of the mind we will never be able to have healthy open conversations on certain subjects - finances and sex to start.

Things have as usual gone back to emotional baseline for her. I am consciously playing the game" and intentionally doing what I need to do to keep things peaceful through the holidays.

FD - yes and sadly I've experienced many of these bursts. The more time and more episodes that happen bring me closer to believing the marriage has little future... She adamantly says she won't do individual therapy so there's really no chance in her magically getting better.  she continues to press for couples therapy, saying I need to go if I want to save our marriage... but she won't go herself to save our marriage? We don't have a communication problem, she has a regulation problem and mental illness that she won't address and won't acknowledge. (every episode, including this latest is my fault for the timing, for triggering her, for recording her when she was being physically aggressive. She has no accountability - it's always been my fault for "making her feel this way").

CC43 - There 100% is a reason she's not being transparent. She's lying. She lies to me saying she has X amount saved up but she won't show me? I know she doesn't because I saw her balances recently. She looks at me wanting transparency and accountability as controlling. Any limits imposed are controlling. The only limit she wants is what she contributes to the household. And yes, I can only control myself so I am working on a details plan for January. I already have a personal account but will also be setting up personal savings, etc. She pays for her car, she pays our vehicle insurance and our power bill. She'll pay for some dinners our but that's is it for the household.

Come the new year it will be bad - she will no doubt freak out when I implement what I need to. I'm meeting with my accountant early Jan to help with adjusting my tax withholding and what the impacts will be to changing my filing to married filing single. She doesn't know this yet.

I will be separating everything from our iphone accounts to any bill that we don't need or is mostly hers to either her taking it over or me canceling it. I expect my take home pay will be reduced quite a bit when I change my taxes so I will likely need to reduce or eliminate any money towards things like eating out of the house for some time (this will make her the most angry as she 'needs' to go out twice a week, usually we alternate who pays). I'm going to cut every little corner I can to put more away to emergency savings and debt.

I do have an emergency bag packed with enough clothes and things for a few days ready to go.

I just started re-reading Splitting by Eddy.

I'm thinking through options like a safety deposit box, a PO box and/or storage unit. Thinking of when I might need to take that step. I'm ordering a couple more internal security cameras, one for the spare room which I'll move into if I need to.

Right now it's a lot of ABR (always be recording) and protecting myself. I'm thinking a lot more about what's best for me and the kids. This ain't it.

CC43 - I have a smidge of hope that my wife might seek treatment when things change because this will be a new level for her (me stopping payment for things, separating finances). Very doubtful but a slim hope. What is much more realistic is she will have more extinction bursts, become even more enraged and volatile then before (especially since she just got HRT yesterday) and things will come to a difficult conclusion. I think it's very possible I will have to call the police when she becomes physical or suicidal again and I will need to take the needed steps to protect the kids and myself legally at that point...

 88 
 on: December 17, 2025, 11:51:03 AM  
Started by campbembpd - Last post by CC43
If there are things you care about, those have to be gone.  You want to be in a position where you can say "Go ahead, I don't care" and let her rage, without having leverage against you. 

I almost got to that point, which I called CHANS (Can't Have Anything Nice Syndrome) and/or CHAOS (Can't Have Anyone Over Syndrome).  While the pwBPD in my life wasn't intentionally destructive with possessions when she was raging, her prevailing attitude was not to care about anything in a passive-aggressive way.  She said as much:  I don't care.  She'd leave the house with the front door or garage door wide open, with heat escaping and practically inviting robbers inside.  I assume she thought, she needed to get back in, and she couldn't be bothered to take a key.  Either that or she was extremely skatterbrained (possibly brain-addled by marijuana); she'd say that too:  I'm skatterbrained. She'd leave food and food trash everywhere.  She'd get nailpolish and makeup products all over furniture, carpeting, furnishings and bedding, some irreparably stained/bleached out.  Used sanitary napkins would be strewn on the floor.  Bodily fluids all over the toilet, typically unflushed.  Wet towels on wood furniture.  Freezer door left open, melted ice dripping on the floor.  Food/drink spills just left on the floor or carpet.  Ugly stains on new clothes; she seemed to think clothes were disposable and would just ask for money to buy new clothes.  Dangerous moments like microwaving metal and starting a small fire in the microwave.  Some of my nice things permanently "borrowed" and never returned.  Drawers pulled completely out of dressers, chairs overturned, clutter piled high on her bed, rendering her furniture basically useless in any conventional sense.  In short, she couldn't be trusted or unsupervised in my house for extended periods.  I felt I couldn't go on summer vacations, when she'd stay at my house full-time.  It was just too risky.  I stopped buying nice things, for fear that they would be damaged.  It wasn't worth the stress worrying about it.  I know things are just things, but by the same token, it felt really stressful and depressing to live in CHAOS, as if I was forced to live in a dirty college dorm whenever she was around.

It wasn't until she got treatment for BPD and became more stabilized that I could trust her in my house, sort of.  I think she also needed some serious practice living on her own, to experience the direct consequences of ruining her belongings and living quarters with her careless attitude and apparent incompetence.  When her dad and I weren't there to clean things up for her, her place would quickly become a dump.  In a way, the state of her living quarters (and her person) were a reflection of her mental state--a complete mess.

Come to think of it, I think the very first sign of some "remission" of BPD was when she started taking better care of her things, person and living environment.

 89 
 on: December 17, 2025, 11:29:40 AM  
Started by Cjay85 - Last post by Cjay85
Thank you all for the kind words and support. I've stayed no contact for two months, and it's been helping, just learning more about myself, and the positive thing I have learned from this relationship is to love yourself more and stay firm with boundaries. I felt stupid at first (I don't feel this way anymore) because I kept ignoring my needs, my gut, and the red flags. And there has been a smear campaign, saying terrible things about me, which I heard recently, but it's proving to myself that this is who they are, and I know that I really have made the right decision. It's just been a whirlwind of emotions! You feel sorry for them, then it turns into righteous anger, and then you feel pity for them. But I keep telling myself this is a mental illness and there's nothing I can do. All I can do is heal and continue my life to the best of my ability. Overall, I am feeling better mentally and physically now that I have left, which is also a huge sign that it was clearly an unhealthy relationship, but it's funny you don't see it while you're in it. Haha.

 90 
 on: December 17, 2025, 11:02:12 AM  
Started by SoVeryConfused - Last post by js friend
Hi so confused,
What holds me back is thinking of her alone, feeling unloved and left behind.


You deserve to step away for a while whether it is LC/NC. I used to have the exact same line of thinking, believing that if I wasnt the one to be always there for my udd then who would be, but it is exactly this way of thinking that keeps the cycle of abuse, manipulation, and everything else that comes with it going.

By stepping away our dd's may actually reach their rock bottom and get help.

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