I live 36 miles from.her which can be frustrating when id rather have the ability to just pop in. My brother lives ok the same town as her but he's been working away in Portugal so don't know if he's home yet - trouble is she is really good at winding him up and they end up having almighty rows! She has apparently even venomous about my aunt to him so I think she'll give my aunt grief with both barrels again before long.

It's weird isn't it how they get off on making people worry by deliberately not answering phones!
My mum and dad always had a close relationship with my dad's sister and husband, lovely people as well but my dad's sister brought my eldest brother up because my mother's mental health went to pot after she had him and after my died her and my eldest brother has some real wars with each other that they both hit trying to drag the rest of us into avd she drove my dad's sister into cutting off contact with her. She laments so much about the loss of that relationship and my uncle has since died and yet she doesn't get that her behaviour made the relationship end!

My BPD mother did this too, for reasons I don't really know. IMHO, if she's doing this on purpose I would not send her a letter. My mother would hold on to letters, emails, and use them out of context to prove something negative, when that was not the original intent. If you want to send the chocolates, do so without any expectations of how your mother will respond.

My mother had a long term friend, since college and they were good friends. One time I was visiting when my father was ill. This friend was calling the house phone frequently and my mother would not pick up and told me not to either. I asked why and she said she was angry at this friend. I have no idea what for.

Eventually, I decided this was being cruel to the friend and answered. She was frantic - worried about my father, wanting an update. Of course she would be. She and her husband were friends with my parents for decades. They cared. I thought it was inconsiderate of my mother to not pick up the phone. Eventually she did come around and talk to her friend.

She did it with me and other family members too. In her elder years, it was concerning. Sometimes I would ask a neighbor to check on her if none of us had heard for a while. When she was in assisted living, we didn't worry like this because there were staff and nurses there checking on her. We would still call. If she picked up, fine, if not, well she didn't. Eventually she'd come around and speak to us again.

If your mother is doing well, assume she's OK. If you get worried, ask another family member to call her- if she's just ignoring you, she will pick up for them. We would do this too. If you get concerned- ask a neighbor to check on her. We knew my mother's neighbors and could call them if needed. If all is OK, maybe just still call so you know you tried. Your mother will call or pick up when she decides to.

Hi there,

This is a good place to vent and to process your thoughts and feelings.  What you write sounds very familiar to me.  My BPD stepdaughter has done similar things--refusing and returning presents, being a no-show at family events, and complaining about past grievances while refusing to talk about specifics, then blaming me for not having mind-reading powers and not apologizing.  What I see is a lot of avoidance.  I think that comes down to a trauma-based, fight-or-flight response to all sorts of situations--and flight is avoidance. 

On these boards, you'll see that important family gatherings--birthdays, vacations, holidays, funerals, parties--are extremely stressful for pwBPD, a tinderbox that is likely to result in some sort of meltdown.  It seems that your daughter recognizes this, and she decides to avoid the stress altogether by standing you up.  My BPD stepdaughter has stood me up so many times that I've lost count.  At least your daughter let you know she wasn't coming; my BPD stepdaughter typically doesn't text about her change of plans.  Anyway, I think she's trying to punish you with her absence.  But if she's in such a bad mood, it's probably better that she keeps her distance.

As for returning the presents, I think the gifts are reminding your daughter that you do love her and that you were there for her.  What she's doing is trying to rid herself of these memories, while at the same time, she's trying to rewrite history and create a narrative that you NEVER cared and NEVER gave her anything, while at the same time, just being mean and trying to hurt you.  Like I wrote, my BPD stepdaughter would do the same.  It's like she was doubling down on her victim narrative, just so she could blame others for ruining her life.  Why?  Because it was too painful to face the truth:  that she was struggling, she was making poor decisions, she was lost, confused, unsure how to make a life for herself, so angry, so overwhelmed, so hurt, messed up.  It's easier to blame others than take responsibility and get some help.  Also, I imagine it's really painful to think, there's something not right with me, I need therapy.  Well, I don't think that; I just think she thinks that.

Like your daughter, my stepdaughter is beautiful.  But she has all sorts of unrealistic dreams of being "discovered" as a top model or influencer.  She has spent thousands of dollars on changing her looks, when I think she's more beautiful in her natural state.  An example would be dying her hair platinum blond, when she looks prettier with her deep chestnut color, which complements her eyes and complexion.  While I think some level of experimentation is normal, with her, it seems more like she's "trying on" different identities, because she lacks a stable self-image.  Her changing looks seem to be too performative, and she sets herself up for constant disappointment, because a surgery isn't going to magically fix her life.  It's like her expectations are fantastical, over-the-top (e.g. dreams of becoming a top model, movie star, singer, internet influencer, etc.), but without being realistic or doing the non-superficial work, let alone having the inner strength to face rejection after rejection after rejection.  For example, she'd put "singing and acting" on her resume, and yet she has zero experience singing in a chorus or acting in a school play (as far as I'm aware).  She'd also put "moving to NYC" on her resume, but after several years, she's not any closer to the city.  I'm just trying to illustrate some of the "delusional" and "narcissistic" aspects of BPD which are associated with unrealistic expectations that seem to set her up for disappointments which she can't handle.

I'll be honest with you, I've been happier when my stepdaughter isn't living with me, though I worry about her every day.  I think it's better that she's responsible for her daily choices, without having constant parental supervision.  Why?  That way, she "owns" her choices, and it's much harder to blame me or her dad for her daily problems.  That tones down the hostility in my opinion.  Though we miss having a "normal" relationship, my hope is that once she establishes a more stable "identity" as an independent adult, she'll have stronger "footing," and maybe she'll be able to resume some typical family activities, like a Thanksgiving dinner with family.  Maybe I'm delusional in thinking this will happen someday.  But my stepdaughter has gotten treatment for BPD, and she has really turned her life around.  Her life looks much healthier and more functional than it once did.  But she hasn't really repaired relationships with the family yet, though she's resumed contact with an aunt.  That's something.

I feel for you.  I'd say, you make sure you live your life, so that you're Calm, Happy Mom when you do have some sort of interaction with your daughter.  And try not to take her vindictive acts personally, hard though that may be.  I've probably written too much in an attempt to explain why this isn't about you, it's about her and her distorted, negative thinking and victim attitude.  I wish we could wave a magic wand and take the negative thoughts and feelings away, but it's just not possible.

I feel like my uBPD mother makes a real game out of ignoring my calls when I ring. She doesn't do a lot, she doesn't go very far and she doesn't drive, she'll go out and about to the shops in a morning and may pop up to the cemetery to visit my dad late afternoon which is just a short few minute walk from her house

I tried to ring her repeatedly from.3pm.to 5pm (she goes to bed to watch TV with the dog at 5pm so there's no ringing her once it gets to that time) and she just doesn't answer the phone, she isn't out for two hours every afternoon and the cemetery shuts at 4pm from Oct 1st. She uses the 1471 on the phone to check if anyone has rang whilst she's been so she knows when I've rang. She's a lot darker in her moods this time of year and was cold to my brother recently for no reason! She's ready to fall out with my poor aunt again who never actually does anything wrong.

I'm.just fed up of her not answering the phone, I don't think she's out everytime I ring, I know she's sat there watching my mum re come up, it's always like this too, 8 or 9 times of ten she'll never  answer the phone but moan that people don't care about her!

Is it bad that I just can't be bothered with it any more! I'm going to send her a nice letter with a bit chocolate in because I don't want to keep ringing someone who doesn't seem to want to talk to me - until she falls out with everyone and will give me three rings to ring her back when she wants something!

She has a lot of history for making idle suicide threats and deliberately making my aunt panic because she won't answer phones. Thing is it takes so much psyching myself up to ring her because you just don't know what mental state she's going to be if she does answer! It really does make you fill.with dread!

Hi again,
I never know if I’m crazy myself!  I’ve been told so many times about how I was never there for my daughter (with BPD) and how my family is not her family…  Every wrong -real or imagined -keeps coming back as little digs.  Subtle but hurtful.  She has recently given back every gift I had ever given her.  She did not show up to my 65th birthday party planned by her and my partner.  She texted me 45 minutes before the start and said she would not be coming- and to have fun with my friends and my family…  she did not show up at my mother’s funeral- her grandmother who adored her.  She has cut me off (again). When I asked if she could please let me know what happened so we could talk it through, she said if I didn’t know-then she can’t help me and she is choosing peace and to surround herself with people who celebrate her… this girl does not have one friend… she works in the film industry so people are always telling her how beautiful etc she is.  That’s it.  No friends.  The peace is from isolation… I have decided to no longer protect her reputation and let my family and friends know of her BPD diagnosis. 
I worry about her every day, I also feel relief that I don’t have to watch everything I say and do… I love her and want a mother-daughter relationship… I need to grieve the daughter I rarely get to experience and a relationship I will never have…
I could go on and on… it’s just so sad…

There is a difference between self esteem and sense of self. It's subtle but- low self esteem is a constant feeling of worthlessness. Sense of self is about boundaries- knowing what is "you" and what isn't "you". It's also based on several aspects of you that don't change, even if circumstances change.

Job loss can be devastating but even if it did happen- a person doesn't disappear. Someone might be an accountant- and they still are one, they still have the skills. For someone with BPD, this sense of self is shaky, a criticism, job loss, feelings of shame- might feel like self destruction.

My BPD mother had aspect of NPD. She had a strong sense of entitlement and superiority. Yet, she also needed constant proof of this to validate that, by having people act in service to her, by spending money.  Underneath it all, without this external proof, her sense of self was unstable because she relied on this external proof of it. One would see her as having high self esteem and entitlement, but that outward appearance didn't match her emotional self.

PwBPD perceive themselves as from victim perspective. In victim perspective, they are not accountable. The "benefit" to them is not that they do this on purpose- it protects them from feeling shame which is intollerable to them. When your wife complains about someone at work, she perceives this from victim perspective. When you try to help her "fix" this, it feels to her like contradicting this position, and feels like an attack. Your intentions to help are not received like this and the two of you end up in that circular argument.

Understandable that you want this situation to change for the better but you've seen that approaching this logically with your wife doesn't work because these are her feelings and feelings are not logical. To someone with BPD, feelings feel like fact.

Maybe some things she says are outlandish but being dismissive will feel hurtful to her. You also don't have to go along with what you think is lunacy but in the moment, it's not lunacy to her. The benefit to you to see what isn't valid is that you won't react emotionally to it as much. If something isn't true about you, you won't feel as much a need to defend it (JADE). Reacting just adds to the drama.

How this goes is unpredictable. Whether things get better or not, isn't possible to know. A first step is to step away from the drama dynamics, learn about BPD, learn relationship tools like how to validate and not to add fuel to the drama. It seems like your therapist has an idea about the situation. This is the person with whom you can share personal details and so they can guide you on how to proceed with specifics, while you learn about BPD dynamics.

To piggyback off that thought, it's also important to look at the opposite- does your wife ever think, "Maybe this is all in my head, maybe it's actually me?!?"

You questioning yourself is logical and honestly, helpful.  That's how we grow as humans, we self-reflect and adjust what needs to be adjusted.  Yet you're telling us that your wife sees this as an absolute- it's definitely what she thinks and there can be no other answer.  Thinking in absolutes is a prevailing BPD trait- you always do this or you never do that.

If your wife can't think in terms of self when it comes to these issues, it's a colossal red flag and a signal that yes, this could absolutely be BPD we're talking about.  But like Wendy said, we don't need a diagnosis to work with BPD traits within our lives. 

It's the same as if your partner had a fever, body chills, a sore throat, and a congested cough.  We don't need a doctor to tell us she's sick with a cold or the flu.  We know that already and we know how to treat it with home remedies.  The only reason we go to the doctor is for that antibiotic or the good prescription meds that work faster.

So we treat this the exact same way, we learn to communicate in a different way with our loved ones to avoid the crazy arguments, to validate their unstable feelings, and to bring peace back to our homes.  Does that make sense?

Yes, except for low self-esteem (it seems to me) all of that describes her perfectly, at least on the bad days.  As for what made things worse recently, I probably take the blame for that.  After several years of hearing the same complaints over and over, without her taking anyone's advice on how to improve her situation, I became a lot more strident in my suggestions to her and didn't pull back when she asked me to.  The intent to help her was lost to us both in the frustration of trying to force our viewpoints on each other.  Now we are both living through the evolving fallout of those moments.  Without belaboring all the details, I'm kind of stuck about how to improve the situation.  And having found this quasi-diagnosis, it almost makes it too convenient to dismiss her complaints as the ravings of lunacy (which honestly some of them cross that line).  Anyway, thanks for listening everyone, we are still both going to therapy, usually separately.

Hi there,

I'm really sorry about the latest turn of events, but want to welcome you to the group.  In my experience, when pwBPD lash out and try to inflict harm onto the people close to them, it's ususually because they are really struggling right now--facing a setback or disappointment; feeling alienated and not being the center of attention; feeling overwhelmed and generally insecure and/or incompetent; self-medicating with illicit substances and overdoing it.  It's very common on these boards to see pwBPD try to "weaponize" children.  Typically, that would entail threatening to keep grandparents away from their grandkids, or outright estrangement.  This can be painful for everyone, because grandparents often play a vital role in caregiving and providing a stable, loving environment for the grandkids.

I guess the silver lining I see in your situation is that the child involved isn't actually your daughter's.  I guess I'd say, you make sure your daughter is never alone with your grandson, you and/or your ex, not unless there's another adult present at all times.  That way, your daughter can't claim "abuse" as easily, given that there are other adult witnesses involved.  If your daughter is acting really unpredictably and toxic, I think it's not a bad idea to shield your grandson from her.  It sounds like you have good judgment and will do what's best for your grandson.

Alas, anyone can make accusations, even false ones.  PwBPD are known to lie outright, and they often twist facts into a distorted victim narrative that's unbelievable.  If there's an investigation, you and/or your ex will need to cooperate.  Here the general advice is to document, document, document.  My sense is you won't have much difficulty demonstrating that you're excellent parents/guardians.  And you'll have one more incident to go into your daughter's file, which is probably already thick, between interactions with police, social services, the legal system and/or medical staff.

But I suspect you're posting for more than that.  You're seeing your daughter go into a downward spiral, while you're powerless to stop it.  And you probably bear some resentment, anger, despair and grief over the impossibility of having a "normal" mother-daughter relationship.  We get that.  I think you're a saint, for adopting one daughter and letting your grandson live with you now.  Surely you've been a very positive influence in their lives.  But you can't be the only one working on the mother-daughter relationship.  Your daughter needs to work at it too.  If she's being mean or disrespectiful, I think you deserve a break from all that.  You focus on you, and on providing a nice home for your grandson, OK?  You can't "save" or "fix" your daughter, because that's not within your power, let alone your responsibility.  She has to decide to get some therapy to turn her life around, if she wants that.  It is possible to address BPD with therapy, provided that your daughter wants to make some changes.  But she's the one who has to do the work to change, and change is hard (but not impossible). 

Many newly arrived members ask this question, Is it really me?  Often we can read the posts and detect if there is something "off" in the perceptions.  But merely asking the question is an indicator it's not you.  Reasonably normal people are willing and able to ask "Is it me?"  In this scenario, people with BPD traits (pwBPD) typically have high levels of Denial, Projection, Blaming, Blame Shifting and more.

It sounds like the counselor detected indications of BPD in your spouse and pointed you to Stop Walking on Eggshells.  It may not be an official diagnosis.  Many of us never learned of a clear diagnosis and so we have had to make our own observations and conclusions as to Why we are experiencing this discord.

In my own marriage (and divorce) I have never learned of a diagnosis for my spouse.  When we first separated, the court ordered us both to get Psych Evals to get a quickie assessment.  Mine was done by a grad student and - no surprise - I had "anxiety" which was reported to the court and her lawyer.  My spouse?  We never got a report and the court moved on.  To this day, even after years in and out of family court dealing with custody and parenting concerns, I still don't know whether she even complied with that court order.

I too suspect something changed in the last couple years for you.  In my case, we had been married over a dozen years with gradually increasing conflict with her co-workers but when we had a child everything suddenly got much worse than before.