Indeed, I've seen something similar with my disordered brother-in-law, and also with the pwBPD in my life--not only concerning food, but with other self-care routines that most of us take for granted.  Things like cleaning the home, attending to one's health (medical / dental appointments), taking care of laundry/dressing appropriately, being responsible for bills, home mainetnance, etc.

I think Notwendy has a good point, that part of the issue is the emotional need to feel cared for.  But I'd add that there are probably some deficits in executive function and general life skills as well.  Part of the deficit is not having the scaffolding of a regular routine; in this case, we're dealing with the healthy routine of getting three square meals a day.  Most parents teach their kids that they should have breakfast in the morning, lunch mid-day and dinner in the evening, and be sure to eat some fruits, vegetables and protein before any sweets.  Right?  Sticking to a normal routine means that people generally get the fuel and nutrition they need, while the schedule fits into normal patterns and societal expectations, such as school and the workplace.  Most people come to realize that if they skip a meal, they get too hungry, so it's best to stick to the routine as much as possible.  And they learn to read their body's physical cues, like, it must be dinnertime, because my stomach is grumbling. 

What I've noticed with pwBPD and NPD is that routines tend to fall apart, because WANTS trump NEEDS.  Reaching for junk food feels much easier and more gratifying in the moment than investing a little time and energy in preparing something nourishing.  They just don't follow "normal" routines in my opinion.  And that makes daily decision-making that much harder.  Whereas I practically run on autopilot when it comes to making most of my meals, for them, they don't have an autopilot, except for the one that says, do whatever is easiest and most appealing moment to moment.

I think that the combination of a lack of a healthy routine, combined with long-term overfunctioning by the other adults in their life, results in the pwBPD not developing competence in some basic life skills.  To illustrate, when I was growing up, I helped my parents with everything.  I did all sorts of chores, year after year.  One of my responsibilities was helping with meals.  I accompanied my mom on hundreds of grocery shopping trips.  I help pick out fruit, vegetables, meats, eggs, etc., especially items on sale.  I helped with check-out and with carrying groceries into the car and house.  I helped unpack the food, wash items that could be washed and put things away.  The same went for making meals:  I helped make breakfast and dinner the overwhelming majority of the time.  By18, I had accumulated the experience of preparing thousands of meals, from shopping to prep to cooking to setting the table to washing up.  Those thousands of instances of real-life experience meant that I was competent with the skills of feeding.

But when it comes to BPD, I think they miss out on formative experiences like that, because their emotional needs and instability are just too much to handle.  In the moment, the adults around them determine that it's just too hard to ask them to contribute anything.  Fast forward to adulthood, and oftentimes, pwBPD literally don't have practice with mundane skills of self-care, in this case feeding.  Each individual step:  planning, shopping, creating a menu, prepping, cooking and cleaning up feel too OVERWHELMING.  Not only that, but the lack of practice means that whatever they might attempt to throw together just doesn't seem appealing.  It's always easier to "delegate" and get someone else to do all this for them, or reach for junk food.  As they do this, year after year, their executive function skills (and general life skills) appear to be childlike.  Why?  Because they are "stuck" at a child's level.  Over-functioning by the adults around them, in the name of making life easier, means that the pwBPD doesn't get practice.  Actually, that situation could lead to shame:  the pwBPD knows that they're incompetent, and to avoid those feelings, it's easier to give up and not even try.

Of course, there's the sense of entitlement, too:  since others have fed them in the past, they demand to be fed and cared for, as it's what they are used to and have come to expect.

Just my two cents.

In this situation, you're literally playing with fire without even realizing it.

Why?  Your BPD partner wants you to chase them, but if you chase them then they take it as proof that everything they accused you of is 100% valid.  If you don't chase them, there's a chance that they'll reach out to you but it's just as likely that they'll take it as a sign of abandonment and move on.

In my opinion from having this exact conversation dozens of times here over the years, you're better off not reaching out.

With that said, there's a chance that the relationship is not salvagable at this point.  So what's best for your ex might not be your biggest priority anymore.  What's best for you?  And what would you be looking for by reaching out?  A second chance?  Closure?  Telling her off?  Tell us why you'd reach out and we can give more specific advice.

That's semi-true.  The BPD's main problems in relationships is themselves, and none of us can "fix" mental health in anyone else.  You can absolutely learn to be more supportive, less judgemental, more validating, etc and it will serve you well in all of your relationships moving forward (from family to work to new love interests).  And there's many here that have made BPD relationships work for a very long time by using those skills.

The other side of the coin, however, is that the non-BPD is playing by an unfair set of rules where their feelings and emotions are often placed on the backburner.  For instance, my ex wife would start to scream at me over something ridiculous that had nothing to do with me, and I could choose to yell back (wrong move) or lovingly calm her down (right move).  That's easy to do in a vaccuum, but over a lifetime it's almost impossible to always get it right.

Will one blowout lead to breaking up?  It could under the right circumstances, but usually it doesn't.  That's why I said your doctor's statement is only semi-true. 

You are correct in that to qualify for SSI/Disability Medicare- a person has to meet certain criteria and there needs to be medical documentation. One is: Severe Impairment: You must have a physical or mental medical condition that significantly limits your ability to perform basic work-related activities and it must be long term. Someone made this assessment of your wife when she was in her 20's. BPD alone is not sufficient to qualify for this.

Nobody chooses this or would want this but this is also a situation where she is eligible for some assistance. Being married, that might impact what she qualifies for. I know an adult who is receiving SSI and Medicare because of a physical disability. She has SSI, Medicare, and is in a subsidized apartment for either over 50 or 55. The building was recently built, and seems to be on par with other apartments in the area. One difference is that this person is a self sufficient mentally intact adult, she can meet her basic needs, but her housing and medical insurance is covered. If it ever came to divorce, your wife may be eligible for some similar material support.

In her elder years, she might meet income determination for Medicaid. Medicaid covers skilled nursing homes and also in some cases, some home health care. I knew an elderly man who had these services covered by Medicaid.

My BPD mother was not eligible for these services. In her era, many women didn't work outside the home. In her 20's. the expectation for her and her peers was to get married. There would not have been an assessment for if she could be employed or not. She did get through college, I don't know how your wife could have done that with her emotional issues- even if she is intelligent- on an intellect level, as my mother was, being able to keep up with a schedule, assigments, would be a challenge. My BPD mother lived at home for part of her college- perhaps she needed that kind of support but it would not have been unusual in her time.

How could you have missed it? Because pwBPD can mask well initially. It's not being deceitful. It's the nature of the relationship as BPD affects the closest relationships the most- so it would be after the relationship got closer and more committed that more of the behaviors would be seen. There are people who knew my mother who never had a clue. I don't think my father did, and in their time, BPD wasn't well known so there wasn't a name for her behavior.

BPD mother didn't not eat but her eating patterns were odd. She didn't cook, or grocery shop. BPD and eating disorders are common and she was concerned about her weight, and so wouldn't eat a lot during the day but would then eat later at night.

Where I see a difference between the usual eating disorders is that your wife comes to you wanting to be fed. This doesn't happen with anorexia- and with binge eating, the eating is often in secret. They don't come to another person asking to be fed. To me (and I am not a psychologist) this is emotional and child like. Your wife is capable of making a sandwich. Wanting to be fed is for emotional comfort- like a small child would seek out.

Now I’m a blockee for a month now , must be the umpteenth time , and the last interaction was a big argument and her running away, then blocked. And yes I was annoyed with her so I contributed to the argument so I’m at fault too. How do you guys deal with the loss and the pain of someone who love but you know you can’t be with? She loved me just before our argument , then I’m the devil within minutes. Wanting to reach out but can’t as they block you and knowing you shouldn’t anyway. Silly me.  It’s quite the conundrum.

I feel I need to be clear about the context of my psychologists statement as there is a tad of misunderstanding I’m thinking. What she was saying is that you have to love them 100% the way they want. To love them perfectly , in their view. Which is of course impossible. One will never love anyone perfectly. One never could. Especially with the continually changing goalposts the pwBPD places before you. The psychologist was also alluding to the impossibility of a relationship with a pwBPD. It’s simply too hard, impossible, and that imperfection of love  the pwBPD will always find fault with and unless you do love them in a way they think is perfect , which no one can , then you are toast.

it depends how you interpret that psychologists statement. The way I read it is an unattainable standard the disordered person expects can never be met. I believe the disordered person does expect you to love them perfectly in their eyes. In fact that is a word that cropped up when my wife and I split up, and has done sporadically since the breakup, calling my current girlfriend ‘Miss Perfect’ or before I started seeing her “hope you find your perfect girlfriend” which is of course all projection.

 I never had any demands or expectations from my wife, other than asking her to pick the towels up off the bathroom floor after she had showered, or clean the toilet with the toilet brush after she had been and left it in an unsavoury state, but even then in our 27 year relationship I probably brought those two gripes up only a couple of times even though the things I’d mentioned would happen on a daily basis.

The black hole analogy is extremely apt too. I experienced the same as you have described. I wasn’t really one for buying flowers, but when she told me she would feel more loved if I did, and that her favourite flowers were daffs or tulips from the supermarket, I’d always pick her some up when I went there, but this then turned into “well you don’t get them from a florists so it doesn’t mean the same”
I would be accused of infidelity and she would argue in front of the kids too. She would even expect me to reprimand our kids for their behaviour at times and when I did would then completely undermine me in front of them. She too accused me of that old chestnut of ‘not loving her enough’ or the way she felt she wanted to be loved. But I think that psychologists statement eludes to the same thing.

CC43 -

That sounds pretty bad. BPDw is not quite at that level - but at times not that far off.

When I say she is not capable of taking care of herself - I mean that most people have some kind of initiative for existence and can get their basic needs met.  W does not have this.  W will claim to not eat all day, then come to me freaking out at 8pm because she is hungry.  I just have never met anyone else who won't find a way to get food when hungry.  But W will say "I couldn't decide what to eat" or "I have no food in my house".  Yes, if I wasn't there, she may eventually order doordash.  But that's quite alarming to hear when I am depending on her to take care of the kids.   She will sometimes be motivated to feed the kids - but most of the time it is very basic.  Again, I have never met anyone else like this.  When she was living apart, the kids often fed themselves.  They are 9.  And I would go to her place and she would tell me she hadn't done anything all day because she was depressed.  But it was more than just depression - it was paranoia, psychosis, and obsessive behaviors that got in her way. 

I enjoy feeding my kids.  I enjoy deciding what to eat.  I enjoy preparing food.  I suspect most people do.  She doesn't.  Since I have known her, I have never, ever been to a restaurant with her when she did not order until she heard what everyone else ordered first.  Every single day she has to ask me what I want to do about dinner.  Never once, in 14 years, have I heard her say "I want to eat this for dinner" or "I want to eat at this restaurant" and find a way to make it happen.  She always wants someone to make that decision for her, and if there is nobody else to do it, she likely won't eat, or eat junk food or a snack.

All of her interests involve someone else.  She does not do anything on her own just for fun.  Again, this feels like an impossible way to live.  Everyone else I know has something they enjoy doing alone.  Going for a walk.  Going to the gym.  A hobby.  Going shopping.  If I and the kids are doing other things, she will say "I don't know what to do with myself"and try and coerce some kind of interaction through guilt tripping or controlling behaviors (she will find a way to complain about someone else).

When she decided she wanted to be involved romantically with a woman, immediately the focus was first on finding a woman.  Not about moving out, finding a job, being independent, or separating our bedroom.  Instead it was a desire for an "open relationship" until she found a female partner, and then it was all about moving out to be with this partner and suddenly she no longer wanted an "open relationship". 

W collects permanent federal disability and was given medicare since she was in her late 20s.  That is not easy to get.  That means at that time someone determined she was unlikely to ever have the ability to meet her basic needs through working and managing her health.  At this point, I agree. 

So how did I miss this before we got married?  Well, she hid it, and I didn't have enough life experience to understand that people like her existed.  She came across as someone who was open about having a troubled youth, got help for her mental illness, then got a graduate degree and had a career.  She had traveled overseas, seemingly by herself, and made it sound like she was a very independent woman who had a few bad breaks.  What I didn't understand is that her career was job after job that she complained about, that her overseas travels were almost always in pursuit of some kind of romantic fling, and her "depression and anxiety" had a psychosis component to it. 

Hi there,

I think I remember the gist of your story, given the unusual nature of it:  you being OK with your wife moving out to have a same-sex affair, because it meant that you got some peace in your own home.  I think I also remember that your wife couldn't manage to feed herself(!).  The irony is not lost upon me, that you're dealing with a woman who attempted to work as a teacher of children, when she can't even figure out how to feed herself independently.  If she was working in an elementary school situation, it's no wonder that she didn't last very long, because job satisfaction is lower than ever in elementary schools these days.  The kids are too needy, the teaching requirements are too strenuous, and there's not enough support to teachers in a world where discipline measures have been watered down to nothing.  I guess my reflection is that this wouldn't be an ideal job set-up for her.

Anyway, I'm replying because my extended family went through a similar situation.  My uNPD brother-in-law separated from his wife and wanted to co-parent three young children.  However, he wasn't capable of caring for himself, not by a long shot.  He had all sorts of self-created and untreated health issues--alcoholism, obesity, high blood pressure, gout, failing kidneys, and the associated issues of nausea, vomiting, joint pain, impaired vision and extreme fatigue.  He was long-term unemployed (and unemployable).  His mobility was limited.  He neglected his home environment and hygiene, and he spent most of his days napping.  He couldn't feed himself reliably, unless you count ordering DoorDash every night as reliable.  And those were just some of his physical issues.  On top of that were mental issues including bouts of confusion, meanness and extreme self-centeredness characteristic of NPD.  In short, he is incapable of putting his children's interests first, let alone caring for them in an appropriate way.  Anyway, I imagine you can figure out that the kids weren't safe living with their dad.  He couldn't reliably feed them the simplest meals, like cereal for breakfast, PB&J sandwiches for lunch and spaghetti for dinner.  He wasn't even AWAKE at breakfast and lunchtime during his parenting days.  Basically he reversed roles, expecting the kids to be parentified and cater to him and his needs, while he was functioning like a child with a credit card.  As an example, the kids spent a lot of their time waiting for dad in urgent care clinics, in lieu of attending their usual after-school activities.  Not only that, but he was emotionally abusive to the children, calling them horrible names, exposing them to age-inappropriate subjects (e.g. nude photos, R-rated movies), and subjecting them to emotional manipulation, not unlike the quote I highlighted above about threatening suicide.  It's not fair to subject kids to that in my opinion.  For example, one time he drove into his driveway but refused to get out of the car and go in the house together with his three young kids.  The kids went inside by themselves (hungry of course), but after a while, they grew more and more worried.  His precocious daughter thought her dad was having some sort of health incident in the car, but he just yelled at her and told her to go back inside, while he refused to budge.  She ended up crying and asking her dad if she should call 911 for him.  Eventually she convinced him to give her his cellphone so that she could call her mom and ask her what to do.

And so I'd say, it sounds to me like your wife is functionally like a child, as she needs someone else to feed her, provide for her and cater to her emotional needs.  She can't handle employment or key adult responsibilities, right?  And you're not comfortable leaving the kids with her because of this?  I'd say, you need to document all this as best as you can.  Why?  Because right now you have a temporary situation that is working, in the "least bad" sense.  But my suspicion is that the situation is highly unstable, and your wife could go off the rails and make your homelife miserable again.  I'd say, you need to build a case for sole physical custody of your kids, until their mom demonstrates she can actually take care of herself, before she can even consider taking care of kids on her own.  I think it's not fair to expect kids to act like adults while their own parent is acting like a kid, and I think you need to protect them from that sort of situation as much as possible.  Maybe the solution for your wife would be some sort of supervised, short-duration visitation, which wouldn't include overnights for the kids until she got her act together.  Does that make sense?  I can't help but wonder, does your wife even want the responsibility of taking care of the kids on her own?  Or does she only want them to get back at you?

Just some food for thought.  All the best to you.

I know my father considered it although it was BPD mother who made the most threats- empty ones. While I think my father had the sense to not discuss this with kids, because of the conflicts- at home where we saw them, and BPD mother's threats, I eventually asked him. As kids, at about 9-10 like yours, we really didn't know enough to ask.

From a parents' perspective, it must have felt shocking to have a teen daughter ask pointed questions, but BPD mother was bringing up their relationship issues. That was not appropriate but we heard it.

I know there was more to it but being confronted, he did say some. I had no idea at the time how unable to manage on her own she was. It was well hidden and Dad's support covered a lot of it up. He didn't reveal it either, he must have known.

Some of his responses were probably covers for the situation. He sometimes said it was too expensive but so was BPD mother and her uncontrolled spending. At one point he mentioned doing this and letting her find someone else. She was very attractive and now I see that would have been the only way she could have managed.

But he also did love her in a way- and when she could pull herself together, she was very charming. Sometimes he appeared smitten with her. The push pull I think also gave him some hope. It's also possible that there was less stress once we kids were grown and out of the house, and he didn't have the parenting duties in addition to her. By our teens, we were very self sufficient. However she remained a challenge.

I think he did feel trapped but I think a part of that was feeling responsible for her. The stress on him was apparent, even if he didn't talk about it. He was irritable at times and snapped at us. It was different when he was alone with us, he was more relaxed and engaged.

He did feel responsible for us kids and in her era, custody went to the mother. She would have pulled it together in court. Also in their era, many women didn't work outside the home. She had no work experience, and was unable to function in a job even if she did. I think he felt responsible for her.

Where things unravelled was when he got sick in his elder years and she didn't have as much of his supervision and emotional support. That is when I saw the full extent of it. Knowing he was very ill, I did bring up concerns about how she could manage on her own. I offered to help manage their finances as I knew she'd mismanage them. She refused. Eventually she did mismanage them. I had to have boundaries with her but stay in contact with her and was the next of kin contact in her elder years.  Fortunately there was enough funds left to cover her care facility.

My own take on this is that what is best for your own mental health is the best for the kids. If staying together leaves you stressed and drained, then that affects the kids too. They are going to see their mother's behavior whether you stay or not. If you do stay for the long run, be prepared for all the stages of this. As difficult as divorce is, if it did come to that, there might be resources in place for your wife that she is on SSI which could make her eligible for Medicaid in her elder years if needed.

One thought is to seek out this kind of information- what is she eligible now and later, even if it doesn't come to that. I did seek this out for my BPD mother- what are the options for her care if there are any. While the elder years are a ways off for you two, having the information itself may help you with plans whatever direction you choose.