This makes sense- the staying and being supportive can in a way be enabling even if it isn't intentional.

How unable a pwBPD is to help themselves and be responsible for their behavior can vary- and is sometimes hard to discern. I think the reminder to take vitamins is one of these situations. If she doesn't take her vitamins and feels worse, her behavior could be worse, and this makes the situation harder for all of you. However, most adults are responsible for taking their own vitamins.

I am not being critical of this situation, as my BPD mother could not function on her own and in a sense- we all stepped in to help with this role. However, too much of this was detrimental to her own sense of self worth and accomplishment. She also wanted to be taken care of and have people do things for her that she could do herself- it met an emotional need of hers.

BPD mother had therapy off and on- but still- the therapy was between her and the therapist. Therapy didn't seem to have an affect on her. I don't know if she did EMDR or DBT. BPD wasn't a known entity in her younger years and EMDR/DBT were not mainstream practices, so I don't know if her outcome would be different if they were.

The idea of holding a boundary may sound simplistic but it's an actual truth that we can not control another person's thoughts and feelings. We can control another person in other ways but they will always have their own thoughts, feelings. As per my other post- you can motivate your partner if she's scared, but external motivation doesn't always produce results in therapy. This is a difficult situation, understandably.

I agree with this, as it would appear to her that you and the T are "ganging up on her". It's that- we are a lay board- not therapists and so don't have the range of experience or are in the position to address your wife's progress or lack of it with the T.

I wanted to comment on this because, the reason this was effective was because it wasn't done for purpose of motivating the BPD partner- it was a sincere, feeling done with the disorder, and being ready to leave, actually meaning it.

Making any threat- without the intention to follow through- as a means to motivate or scare a partner is adding to the dysfunction. It can also damage the relationship and be diffucult to repair if it's done for this reason.

These relationships involve both partners. Each can be afraid of losing the relationship. If the partner without BPD doesn't want to lose the relationship - they may be more apt to walking on eggshells and have difficulty holding boundaries due to not wanting to upset their BPD partner.

When someone holds a boundary that the BPD partner doesn't want - the BPD partner then has a choice- respect the boundary or risk losing the relationship. This allows for them to make the decision. It's a scary one, as the non BPD partner may fear this risk- but it opens the door to the possibility of change, or the BPD partner may choose to leave the relationship. Sometimes when the non partner feels they can't continue, they have less fear of this, and so may be able to hold the boundary and let them make the choice. When someone makes their own choices- that is accountability.

There's a push pull to these relationships. Pushing too far, if the other person pulls, this can activate a fear of abandonment. This fear can be a motivator but a temporary one, as soon as the relationship gets back to "normal" the motivation is gone. There's a cyclic pattern to abusive relationships- the rage, the possible remorse, the trying again. It isn't just with romantic ones as it can involve other family members too.

If someone "pulls" as a way of getting the other person to respond- that is being manipulative too. It's engaging in the disordered dynamics and it causes damage to it. If a person is truly at their end point of tolerance, this then is acting authentically. The pwBPD will then make their own choices with that.

@ForeverDad, nice name ! 


Yes, I'm clear about that, and I know that their previous partners did a much worse job and were much more affected. Two of them used to spank her, and the third one would cry but eventually tried to counterattack.

Btw, in all of my three relationships in which they got pregnant, things were also manageable before that but got much worse after labor and sometimes even during pregnancy. Although there are different psychological explanations for that, like the one you provided, which might be valid, I believe the main reason for that might be biological. First, the Omega-3 that was removed from the mother's brain to the baby's brain, the other nutrients as well, and the change in hormones. This time I'm putting in more effort in giving her supplements, and it clearly helps, to some extent. When the body is severely lacking, much higher dosages are needed.


Yes, she has already tried other CBT therapies in the past, which didn't work very well for her, and recently began pushing on the idea of trying DBT, and she watched some videos about it and liked it. She already recognizes that BPD is what affects her and is ok with that. Because when I explained it all to her, she could see that I was being very sincere. I said that despite knowing a lot about this disorder, it took me years to admit to myself that she also had this disorder, and I was sad about that because I didn't want her to have it because I loved her.

In regard to kids, I think they are doing kind of well. I do explain that this is not normal, and they also see many good moments. The bad reference exists, but hopefully there is not a compulsion for diving into it, because I never allow them to get involved and encourage them to play video games while she is screaming. And when she is storming too much and breaking stuff, I lock myself with them in the room and turn on music. I think they absorb my calmness.

@mitochondrium ,


Yes, that's the point. I wish I still had this power. Need to think about that, but it's another topic.

Ok, I tried to avoid it, but you still figured out that I'm the aforementioned unfortunate husband. 

@Notwendy,


She always gives me this consent, but I have learned that it's a bad idea. Because then she begins to think that the therapist is on my side and sees this as a dispute. And then she keeps bringing up the therapist's name and lots of fake hypothetical opinions against me to the drama, just like she does regarding her parents. The strategy that works is that I send the message to her, and she forwards the message to the therapist if she feels comfortable. So I can communicate that she is having a hard time after therapy and may need more skills. That's a one-way communication that does not include questions, but it should be enough.


I disagree with this simplistic view. Because that would make the intimate partner useless and inert. I know the partner can't assume the responsibility of solving her problems, but without any sort of support/guidance, the BPD partner can't progress either.

For instance, I have to give her the vitamins on hand and on time, just after dinner/lunch; otherwise, she just forgets. And I have to wait until she takes all of them; otherwise, again, she forgets. She is not taking them because she wants to improve but because she likes to be taken care of and doesn't want to disappoint me (if she is in a good mood). And now I'm searching for a good DBT therapist, because she is not very good with that.


I'm not an enabler because I am on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm too rigid. However, at times she can confuse my protectiveness with neediness. However, there is one thing I do that works as a kind of enablement: the simple fact of still living together and allowing the relationship to return to its baseline of closeness. This is what I got from AI's opinion:

> Staying because of finances and child safety is not enabling in itself, but the repeated cycle where she lashes out and later “gets you back” without lasting consequences likely blunts the impact of loss and therefore reduces learning from consequences.

> The repeated pattern where severe dysregulation is followed by your continued physical presence and eventual near-baseline restoration appears to have extinguished the fear of permanent loss.

> The enabling element is not affection, reassurance, or bending, but the absence of an irreversible consequence.

> The learning signal that is missing is not emotional but existential: she has learned that dysregulation does not change your long-term decisions, but also that it does not terminate the bond.

From our collective experience here, it can be concluded that no matter who your spouse was married to, you or someone else, she would still have focused her dysfunctional outbursts on her partner.  It's not you.  Just about any partner would trigger her.  It's part of the disorder.

Is she aware of DBT or CBT therapies?  If not, then don't tell her since a typical reaction is to reject "labels".  Some therapist don't even mention a name for their sessions so they can proceed without too much drama.  But as already remarked, this would be an uphill (mythical Sisyphus) struggle for years with no guarantee of eventual success.

My ex and I had been married for over a decade and though it was slowly becoming problematic, our marriage was manageable... until we had a child.  (She had an abusive stepfather and was greatly triggered when she saw I had become a father...)  Once I contacted the legal systems - police for a "family dispute" - my marriage had crossed a line from which it didn't survive.  We separated and soon were divorcing.   She filed numerous allegations against me during the separation, the two year divorce and even for another year or so after the final decree.  Even after they stopped she was still playing games with exchanges and disparaging me.  Now that our son is an adult, things are less conflictual... as long as I don't trigger her.

I realized our marriage was irreparable when, in addition to the ranting, raging and disparaging, she was threatening to disappear with our child.

My family court's perspective was to ignore mental health issues.  It treated us as we were and didn't try to fix us.  It set basic boundaries for behavior, court orders.  It was perfect but to some extent it limited the poor behaviors.

A troubling aspect of the abusive behavior is that the children are exposed to it, not just once or twice, but regularly.  They're not living in a reasonably normal home environment.  They won''t know what is real normalcy.  The example they're seeing in their parents' relationship can sabotage them almost unwittingly when they grow up and seek their own adult relationships.  They might choose someone like dad (forever struggling) or someone like mom (regularly causing stress and discord).

There's no simple solution here but it would be a great idea for you and the children to seek counseling in future years to deal with predictable issues that will arise.  And even young children can benefit from "play" therapy.

Hi,

maybe I was not clear enough, with “it is the way he talks to some extent (not only to me)”, I did not mean that that is all that happens/happened. The real rage and accusations are also surgically just pointed to me. Which gives him thoughts that I am the problem, since he has no problems with other people in his life. But that is how bpd works, it is the most intensively targetes at the closest person. I too live with my partner for 5 years, since we moved in together boundaries became even more important and ofcorse harder to keep in place. I agree with you that your situation is harder than mine, my bf luckily has less bpd traits, he also have never thretened me to kill me. IMHO that is a real life threat and police should deal with it - that would also put a boundary strongly in place and also show the children such behaviour is not tolerated.
I understand your question and the need to get your wife in appropriate treatment. I had the most succes when my bf was really threatened and scared I would leave for real, at that time he was ready to commit to treatment. Maybe this was also some kind of boundary - I was letting him know, I was not going to stay with him, if he is not getting into treatment and I really ment it.

Hi Bpdstinks,


I can see that you are struggling. 

Maybe it is the not knowing why your udd has requested limited contact with you and your family but as hard as this is those are her wishes. For years I wanted to know why my udd despised me so much. I asked relatives she was close to, close friends but no-one had answer. Even udd herself didnt have answer. So I blamed myself that I must have done something wrong.

Then I came across bpd and the more I read about bpd I came to realise that my udd has an 8 out of 9 of the traits for bpd and that she has a serious undiagnosed mental illness which often involves difficulties with personal relationships. That explained a lot. There were signs long before I knew anything about bpd and there is a definitely a genetic link in my family. I had to accept it and come to terms with it and let it go to improve my own mental health.

Acceptance has lead me to understand that I did the best I could at the time with the knowledge I had then. Its hard to accept that  my  udd may have just been unlucky and inherited her mental illness. I still feel sad for her that she doesnt experience the everyday joys in life that others do and would change it if I could but as far as I know she sees nothing wrong her life and is happily living her life. She isnt sad. She out there living her best life and she is happy that Iam excluded from it. It is what she wants and wanted for many years and if that makes her happy then Iam happy for her. Try not to take it personally. Hopefully in time your dd may reconnect when she gets the mental help she needs but I wouldnt hold your breath for it. That will just keep you stuck and you still have a life to live!

For now Its possible that your udd may be trying to protect her own mental health by distancing herself from you and her extended family and her wishes must be respected however difficult it is for us to accept.

I think  it is time to focus on this new life and live in the moment. A new grandbaby is  truly a blessing and will bring you so much joy

I think these are questions best answered by a therapist who has experience using EMDR and DBT.

Even with experience- how a person responds to therapy is individual. They can't predict a certain result for an individual.

From what you have posted - it looks like your wife has tried EMDR, and is still willing to try it, but it would be her therapist who could answer your questions about her response to it, if your wife has given consent to the therapist to speak to you.

Understandable that this is difficult as you want to help her but she's autonomous in therapy and is going to respond, or not respond, in her own way.

I agree with mitochondrium in that- the aspect of this that we can control is our own boundaries to being bullied when the pwBPD is dissociating- understandbly difficult in your situation- with small children, finances to consider and living in the same house.

As to motivating your wife- I don't think we can control someone else's feelings or motivation. but what you can do on your part is to consider if any of your behaviors are enabling ones. Hopefully posters will share their experiences on this topic too.