Hi there,
I am wondering if anyone has experience with their PWBPD or uBPD entering into therapy to help them manage the chaos in their lives, not the condition itself, ultimately resulting in a therapist reinforcing their skewed perspectives and outlook?

I think the behavior of a pwBPD can be so disorienting to deal with that it does indeed warp our responses to it. 

For example, the sudden anger and emotional outburst over nothing catches one off guard.  Like if you're not used to that sort of thing, a normal reaction to that would be to assume you did something really wrong and are just unaware of what it could be.  That element of surprise allows them to run roughshod over your better judgment.

I think over time people in such relationships start to suspect that something is "off" about their partner, and that their reactions and behavior is not normal.  But until then, you're in this phase where you instinctively try to placate them in hopes of getting back to a more cordial state. 

But if you have experience with BPD, or just really strong boundaries, you might immediately confront the person over their anger, noting it was uncalled for - regardless of what they perceived or felt about your actions or motivations - and insist on an apology, and if that's not forthcoming, move toward an end in the relationship.

I think - to me at least - that's another area where BPD-behavior warped my personal standards and beliefs; I was frustrated because I felt I had been treated poorly (and I had been), but I couldn't get her to acknowledge that without more fighting - and that's assuming at some point she'd concede, without more blame-shifting and finger pointing, and on some level I knew my only recourse was to walk away from her completely, but I'd question whether it was worth ending the relationship over something that seemed so minor to begin with.  It is though.  That's what having firm boundaries is all about. 

Hi there,

I'm sorry you feel increasingly distressed about your mom.  This is a safe space for you.  If you look around this site, you'll find some great resources, as well as insight into BPD dynamics.

I'm wondering, has your mom been diagnosed with BPD?  If she has, at least you know what you're dealing with.

Two words which stand out in your post are Guilt and Fear.  That's extremely common with posters here.  In fact, it's so common that we have a name for it:  operating in a FOG of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.  The pwBPD in our lives seem so manipulative and demanding, that we're walking on eggshells, as well as bending over backwards out of a combination of fear, obligation and guilt.  The thing is though, operating in a FOG can cloud our judgment.  We're so focussed on the feelings of the pwBPD, that we can start to feel alienated from our own lives.

My guess is that you're feeling traumatized by your mom, after years of demands, manipulation and abusive behavior, that you're starting to have a trauma response.  That means you're generally primed for fight or flight.  Does that sound about right?

I think there's some good news here.  At least you're out of the house.  That way, you can carve out plenty of time and space away from your disordered mom.  I know you're worried about your dad and sibling.  But here's the thing.  Except for your sibling, you are all adults.  Adults are responsible for themselves.  Your job is NOT to be their emotional caretaker.  Not anymore.  That stops today.

You deserve to focus on YOU.  You deserve to take care of YOU.  My advice to you is, if you are feeling stressed out and overwhelmed by you mom, and she's acting badly, then you need to put her in an adult time out.  You don't have to say this, just do it.  She needs time and space to calm down.  Give her a time out, and don't interrupt it!  If she's being mean and accusing you of ridiculous, horrible things, don't JADE (short for Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain), because when you JADE, you're inadvertently giving your mom the attention she craves.  Instead, you quietly exit the scene and put her in a time out (just don't say it).  Only engage with her when she's treating you nicely.  If she texts you something horrible or makes an unreasonable demand, just delete the text like spam, because it is spam.

My guess is that your mom is trying to control you too much.  Is she upset about you spending time with your dad?  Is she furious that you're making a life for yourself?  Does she complain about every little thing you do?  I think that's classic BPD.  Underneath her general negativity and criticism is your mom's attempt to isolate you.  She doesn't want you to have a life, because she's jealous of you, and she wants your attention, full time.  Maybe she had your attention when you were a kid.  But you're not a kid anymore.  The more you pull away and start to have your own life, the more she acts out to reclaim you for herself.  If you understand what she's doing, maybe you'll not take her mean words so personally.  My advice?  Your mom can scream, insult, threaten violence and give you the silent treatment as much as she wants.  But you are going to live your life regardless.  You go ahead and do your job, see your friends, talk with your dad, move farther away, whatever.  She's going to have a hissy fit no matter what you do, so you might as well live your life, OK?  Trust me, you deserve to live your life.  You will regret it later if you do the ridiculous things your mom asks you to do.  The thing is, with untreated BPD, your mom does not have YOUR interests in mind, only her own.  Worse, her needs are infinite.  You could sacrifice everything--friends, relationships, money, time, your own health--and she'll still be upset.  So, don't sacrifice your life, OK?  And you call 911, whenever your mom is a threat to herself or others.  You are not trained to handle suicide threats, so you need to call the experts, every time.

In the meantime, you get busy.  At first, I think that looks like taking exquisite care of yourself.  You eat right.  You get good sleep.  You get some exercise.  You see your friends.  You focus on you job.  You take care of your living quarters.  You get some space from your mom so that you can start to feel "normal."  You deserve that.

If you're worried about your younger sibling, then I'd say, you linvite her over to spend time at your place from time to time.  That way, you give your sibling a break from the chaos.  And when you're together, don't talk about your mom, because she's too negative, and talking about her is plain depressing.  Talk about your lives, your friends, your hobbies, your future!

As for your mom not remembering half the things she's done, my opinion is that she remembers all of it, just as she remembers every little grievance and perceived slight from decades ago.  She's just pretending, because her feelings of guilt are overwhelming.  To cope, my guess is that she has created a narrative of being victimized all her life, which in her distorted thinking justifies her in acting out.  She thinks she "deserves" to punish others, to exact retribution for being wronged all the time.  That's why I think that the victim attitude is the worst part of BPD, because it "absolves" her of being responsible for herself and what she does.  Instead, she makes others responsible for her--namely YOU.  My message to you today is that you are NOT responsible for your mom, and you are not to blame for ruining her life, no matter how hard she tries to convince you otherwise.

Hi y'all. I'm a mom of 5 (23,20,25,14,14) and my middle daughter has MDD, GAD, OCD, and emerging BPD traits. In September, at 14, she made a very serious suicide attempt (which seemed out of the blue to us at the time) that landed her in the ICU, followed by adolescent inpatient. Since then, she has done a PHP program, 13 weeks in Skyland Trail, Skyland Trail's PHP program, and various therapy. She's on several medications, none of which seem to be helping a whole lot.
I was very hesitant to accept the BPD diagnosis because it seems so scary. My father was diagnosed decades ago with BPD (untreated) and it presents very differently in him — although after lots of research, I think his is more likely a NPD. Anyway, after a ton of reading, I realize that my kiddo does have several traits of BPD, they just don't show up as violent rages or abusive behavior. She loathes herself, has been self-harming (without our knowledge) for several years, becomes very attached and dependent on specific people. She has dissociative episodes and trouble with chronological memory — often combining conversations over several years into one conversation that never actually happened. She's also worried that people are watching her and says she has voices in her head that tell her to do things although she's very clear that these are not actual voices. She's not hearing things in other words.
She lives with constant suicidal ideation and self-harm and often says she doesn't even want to get better. She says she doesn't want to stop self-harming because in addition to providing a release it also feels like the punishment she deserves for being a "bad person."
My kiddo has identical twin sisters just 16 months younger and she has a major problem with one of them that we can't get to the bottom of... she's obsessed with hating her and then promptly tries to be best friends. Three healthy teenage girls is a lot to deal with but I've got one with serious mental health issues and two others who at the very least are dealing with longterm trauma. Though my husband and I had no idea that our kiddo was struggling until September, her sisters have known for years. They didn't tell us because our kiddo had them convinced that we would make everything worse. Not to worry, EVERYONE is in therapy now.
I'm just here for support and any information that other parents have about things that have helped move the needle for their kids. 

Hi, very new to this. My counselor suggested an Al Anon group to meet with but I figure go straight to the source. I can’t do it anymore. It’s my mom and she’s just getting worse and worse. She’s destroying my dad, myself, even her. It’s so painful because she can’t even see what she’s done. It’s like i can’t even hate her for what she’s done because i know half of her doesn’t even remember it. I just don’t know what to do. I’m married, 22, living near home. I want to leave but the guilt draws me back every time. I feel like i can’t leave or else she’ll hurt herself. She’s not even letting me have a relationship with my dad, or my poor little sister living in the house. It’s the most disgusting accusations, a simple car ride with my dad turns into her accusing me of the most horrible things. and that’s my dad, he’s all i got, and i can’t even talk to him anymore. The worst part about all of this, even worse than the years of manipulation and delusions, is the fact that I see so much of her in myself. I’m working to fight it, I really am, but i’m terrified i’m becoming her, and that i’ll curse my children in the same way. I’m feeling hopeless, this is incredibly out of character for me to post on this site, hopefully i didn’t do anything wrong, i just need advice, direction, what the heck do i even do.

Don't argue or try to fix anything.  I know they're asking, but their words are coming from a disordered mind in crisis.  All they really want is to calm down and they don't know how.  Help them calm down and save the real talk for later.

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Yes, and I'll add that in some cases (my situation for sure), it's extremely rare that you can ever have any real talk.

Methuen- when I read your posts, I could have written the same words.

My situation also involved my father's passing. I was not as aware of BPD dynamics. I was "all in" at first with helping when he got ill. However, each visit involved BPD mother's escalated behavior, verbal and emotional abuse. No matter what I did- it wasn't enough as far as she was concerned. Yet, my own children were younger at the time, I had to arrange child care for them to stay with my parents. What about them? I couldn't just leave. I don't recall them showing any concern about me or my own responsibilities. I didn't expect Dad to- he was ill, but BPD mother didn't.

What I didn't realize was how much my father was aligned with my mother. Whatever she felt, he aligned with. I had to have boundaries with this situation, that angered her, he aligned with her. So did my mother's FOO and some of her family friends.

Like Methuen, I kept in contact with BPD mother and assisted- but I also don't live close to her and so wasn't as involved with the hands on care. Still, in her later years, it involved daily contact by phone- with her, her caregivers, and medical providers, and visits. Why I did it- was due to my own choices- as explained before. I didn't have expectations of her, but I think there was a smidgen of hope there.

I also think that there was some wishful thinking "maybe I can do this right" this time, as if some kind of parental approval was possible still. What was interesting about this experience is that- it actually helped to realized that wasn't attainable with her. Every visit went the same way- I would spend the time doing things for her- she'd find something I did or didn't do that she didn't like.

I also wished things were different for my involvement. I saw my friends helping their elderly parents and even if it was challenging a times for them- there was a relationship there- a closeness, but our situation was different.  Even though it was a difficult situation, I am glad that I stayed involved, as I  know how it went rather than to wonder. Each situation is different and so one makes the best decision we can with the situation we have.

Stop right there mid-thought, because you HAVE TO see this.

When someone is dysrtegulated, they don't want advice.  They don't want help.  They want to stop feeling dysregulated.

No matter what the scenario is, no matter what they did, your advice will always be wrong in that moment because they're not thinking clearly.  Their mind is in a complete panic and they're incapable of accepting sound advice in that moment, so whatever you say about the "actual problem" is going to miss the mark.

Again, the real problem is that they're dysregulated...that's always the real problem 100% of the time.  They will never say that's the problem because that's part of the illness, if they knew how to just calm down then they would.  The only way they know how to get those emotions out is talking and inevitably being abusive if they don't get what they want.

Think about a horror movie, the star is running from a monster of some sort and they make terrible desicions.  We think, that's so dumb!  Don't hide in the shed...keep running!  Get to the car and just drive away!  But they're acting out as a person in crisis, which means they're not thinking logically.  They're making split-second decisions instead of using reason.

BPD is exactly the same way.  Everything they say while they're dysregulated is garbage...it's just meaningless words meant to help stablize their emotions.  But it doesn't, it often makes things worse.  So when you try to help using reason, you're missing the entire point.  They're in a horror movie trying to survive and you're in the coffee shop with the cast of Friends.  It's two completely different worlds.

Don't argue or try to fix anything.  I know they're asking, but their words are coming from a disordered mind in crisis.  All they really want is to calm down and they don't know how.  Help them calm down and save the real talk for later.

I just started reading this, and the part about traits of borderlines in the beginning is exactly how they’re handling their mental health issues.  I never realized the way it impacts their thinking away from relationships as well. 

Inner Peace, I don't know how I missed this the first time I read it, but it jumped out at me today...because I relate...especially to "how my sisters will lash out at me and blame me for hurting her".  Is this something that causes you worry/stress/anxiety?  That is what my mother did to me my whole life - lash out at me and blame me - regardless of all the caretaking I did and loving things I did for her.  I can't remember what the story was that I shared with my therapist at one session, but she jumped on it and challenged me and said "That's your I'm in trouble part"! Truth is, I was always in "trouble" with mom over some trite thing or imagined reason, and being "in trouble" terrified me because she would tell me what a terrible person I was and I didn't want my mom (or anyone else) to think that.  I would do anything she wanted to fix it and please her. If she told me to jump, I would ask how high.  Until I burned out and couldn't be her fixer anymore.  Burnout is like that.

So a couple of questions before you let "guilt" rather than rational thought guide you into a decision one way or another ...
1) What evidence is there that your mom is rehabilitated enough have a different outcome in the relationship this time?
2) Is thinking the relationship could be repaired realistic, or is it magical thinking?
3) Is guilt the wisest tool to let you make this decision?  If re-establishing contact backfires, what could go wrong?
4) What are your core values about this? My core value was that I wanted a relationship with my mother, and I felt a duty as daughter to be present to help meet her needs as she aged.  That was a core value.  But mom was toxic.  She was emotionally abusive.  Mean, cruel and raging.  Another core value was that I  not be a doormat and allow myself to be hurt by anyone.   Abuse is not ok, and I don't believe abusers should be given a free pass without consequence.  So what do we do when two core values are in conflict with each other?  Is this question something that fits?

"I invited my mom to a therapy session but afterwards she told me we just need to put the past behind us". I can't count the number of times my mom used these words.  It's because they don't have any insight, and no ability (i.e. no neural pathways in the brain) to reflect on their own behavior. They lack empathy. And while I don't know this, I doubt very much that they feel "guilt". 

In the last few years, I did have contact with mom, but I had so many boundaries to protect myself it was exhausting. It was awful. I feel like she ruined me, and took away my ability to feel joy again.  A therapist would say I can't give her that power.  My mom passed away last January at age 89 (almost 90).  What I can say is that while the daily drama is gone, the trauma of her lives on in my body.  But when she died, I can tell you she felt no guilt. 

So, maybe something for you to work on is how to cope with the feelings (and activated nervous system) when your sister lashes out at you?

If you re-engage with your mom, it should be because it's what you want to do for your own reasons.  Not because of what your sister says about you, or how she makes you feel.  Easy to say.  Hard to do.  Does that make sense?  Your thoughts?