It's quite probable that your codependent nature was, to some extent, shaped and fostered in your childhood FOO (family of origin).  So how were you to become aware except by experience and education in counseling?  Apparently what inclined you to start and continue your relationship felt familiar to you and was within your comfort zone.  (Think of the analogy of the hapless frog in the slowly heating cooking pot.)

Also, all of us are careful to somewhat present our nice face when starting a romantic relationship.  As time goes on, we relax a bit and, so to speak, let our dirty laundry become evident.  People with BPD traits (pwBPD) are humans too and they behave similarly, just to greater extremes, both with perceptions as well as behavior.

Too often we don't notice the subtle behavior patterns until we're well into the relationship, perhaps already married or perhaps not until we've expanded the twosome to include children.  By then, of course, it is vastly more complicated to figure out what to do.  And the common entitled Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting arise and improving things is made even harder.

Hello.  I hope you are well.

My situation in a nutshell...details to come later I suppose.

I am in my second marriage.  My first wife had some serious problems with emotional instability and depression.  She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, a diagnosis which she rejected and refused treatment for (after a brief period of taking pills and some talk therapy).  I came to the conclusions, with the help of my own therapist(s), that I was deeply codependent and that I was part of the problem....doing too much for her, etc.

I made a promise to myself to do better next time, if there ever was a next time, which there was.  Guess what?  My second wife has also been diagnosed with BPD.

I think I am better prepared to deal with this situation than I was 20 years ago, but I must say I am somewhat disappointed, mostly in myself, for not picking up on the signs and not having the courage, or the insight, to avoid this unfortunate repeat.

Hi Pook,

I'm grappling with that question as well.  My stepdaughter is the one with BPD in my life, but my husband exhibits some traits from time to time.  I wouldn't say he has BPD, but he's quick to anger and lets his emotions take over, resulting in some disordered, BPD-like thinking in my opinion.  My chief struggle has been his angry outbursts which typically arise whenever I engage in activities with other people outside the home.  He's OK if I go to the grocery or work out at the gym, but if I socialize, such as grab a coffee with a friend, do volunteer work, or visit with family on my own, etc., he often has a tantrum over it.  Of course, he's free to socialize on his own and does so frequently; I've never objected to that and have wholeheartedly encouraged him to pursue an active social life, especially now that we're both retired.  However I don't get the same courtesy or understanding.  Instead, I get yelled at:  "You've been gone ALL DAY!"  (Not true, just a morning or afternoon--but so what if I was gone all day?).  "You abandoned me for dinner, and there's no food!" (Not true, I was home before 6 PM, the fridge was full, and he could have made himself dinner or gotten a snack if he was starving.)  "This isn't retirement, you're gone too much!"  (Not true, I typically have social engagements less than once a week, because he's so incredibly fussy about it.)  "You're being a sh***y wife!  You didn't answer my call!" (Not true, I returned his call the second I could, not more than 20 minutes after he called, even though he knew perfectly well I was tied up.  His calls feel like surveillance.)

As an example, he threw a fit this week because I returned home 12 minutes later than my initial ETA.  You see, my husband demands to know EXACTLY what time I leave the home, and exactly what time I expect to return home, even if he's not home when I arrive.  He feels the need to pre-approve my excursions, and I had to "negotiate" a precise ETA (5:45 PM), but I told him that I wasn't sure exactly how long the event would last, let alone the traffic conditions in a town I don't usually travel to.  However, I told him that I'd call him as soon as the event was over, so that he'd know I was on my way home.  As usual, he called me preemptively, knowing that I couldn't answer my phone during the event.  When I returned his call on my way to the parking garage, he proceeded to yell at me for "running late," and when I arrived home at 5:57 PM, he proceeded to yell at me, AGAIN, even though I came within 12 minutes of my original ETA.  Anyone else in the world would have been happy for me, because the event I attended was very important to me.  Anyone else in the world would have asked how the event went, and maybe congratulated me.  But no, my husband was chewing me out because I "wasn't home in time to make him dinner" and telling me how horrible I am.  Not true--I usually start making dinner at 6 PM, and I'm not a jerk to him.  Geesh.

So the "old" me would argue with him, and try to point out that I deserve to have some friends and freedom, that I'm not cheating on him, that I'm not a slave nor subject to house arrest, that I'm not 3 years old (and he isn't either), that I don't deserve a 5 PM curfew, especially considering that he's often out until 9 PM or later, and I don't put up a fuss, as I have dinner waiting for him when he gets home.  However, like with BPD, the problem isn't a rational one, it's irrational, and the anger is misplaced.  It took me a long time to figure out that it wasn't really about me, but about his feelings of "abandonment," as well as feelings of insecurity, exclusion and jealousy (not just the sexual kind, but also straight-up jealousy of me).  I remember one poster whose spouse was jealous whenever she had an engaging conversation with others, possibly "upstaging" her husband, while he couldn't or wouldn't join in the fun.  My husband is a little like that, because his range of interests is narrower than mine, and he prefers to dominate the conversation, whereas I really like to hear what others have to say.  Anyway, I've learned to try not to JADE, even when it's really hard.  It can be exceptionally challenging when he's shouting lies at me, like "You left me no food!  You were gone all day!" etc.  Mostly I just ignore him, and I try to be my normal "nice" self going about my day.  Typically he'll calm down the next day.  But he rarely apologizes--he has only once or twice.  In fact, he had a major meltdown when I left him alone for a couple of days to deal with my father's passing in another state.  I had invited my husband to travel with me, but he didn't want to, and then he punished me for leaving him alone with angry calls and accusations, EXACTLY when I needed a little cooperation from him.  I didn't expect much support from him, but I also didn't expect a total meltdown and the barrage of nasty, threatening calls.  That experience taught me that deaths and other big family occasions are triggers for BPD-like meltdowns.

For me, a hard part is feeling like my husband is trying to spoil any endeavour I pursue outside the home.  I suppose I'm not a "typical" housewife, because I don't really find enough joy in keeping house and cooking all the time.  I do those things, and I try to do them without complaint, but it's not enough for me.  I want to be more than just a nurse with a purse.  I decided that I'd try to make more of a life for myself, in spite of my husband's objections and tantrums.  It's true that sometimes he can seem supportive of me, but the "cycle" of the same old argument about me doing something outside the home has been a recurring one.  I just don't know how to solve it, except not to engage and to try to be reassuring when he's not in a mood.  But it's disheartening sometimes, because I feel like he doesn't support me when I need it, and I feel like he's trying to restrict my activities, in an attempt to isolate/alienate me from others.  In addition, I can't believe that he seems so jealous, when he is extremely accomplished and has many amazing traits.  I just don't get it honestly.  Then I have to remember, it's not logical . . .

Honestly, I don't know.  I've taken several short trips with my BPD daughter and we got along well the entire time.  But that's also sort of deceptive because my kid was always happy on vacations and getting away (my ex was as well).  It's like traveling lets them get out of their own reality for a little bit and just exist.

I will say, however, that our relationships have fundamentally changed because I'm not the enemy.  I never was, of course, but they used to perceive me that way when they were disordered.  So by not fighting back, by learning to be patient and supportive, what used to ruin the week now might ruin a minute or two. 

Even when my kid completely loses it and has a full-blown meltdown towards me, she's messaging later that day or maybe the next day, acting like it didn't even happen.  Of course, I know it happened and I also know that I'm probably not going to get an apology.  She knows it too but can't admit it, so she'll usually try to do something nice for me instead.  Again, it's a fundamental change in the relationship and that changes everything else involved.  I almost never see my kid at her worst anymore and if I do, it's because she's so far gone that she needs immediate medical/psychiatric intervention.

I've thought about this so much when I first found this site and really researching BPD because when our relatives, spouses, whatever are treating us badly, we often notice that they're still kind to the neighbors, their co-workers, other family members, etc.  We know that they can become toxic to the people they're closest to because they feel like those people have turned on them.  So I figured, okay, we need to change the narrative...how do I actually show that I'm not the enemy here?

Boundaries are important on our end to protect our own mental/physical health when things are too much.  That's sort of like putting on football gear to protect you from hard hits in a football game.  It definitely helps, sure, but the real goal is not to get hit in the first place.  I think we can get so focused on boundaries that we forget the other side of the equation- how do we just stop fighting and get back to a place of laughing and having fun.

I've done that two or three times now successfully (my ex wife's brother was the third) and it certainly wasn't easy.  It is worth the fight though to just say (and keep saying) "I love you and I'm here for you.  What can I do?"

At first, you heard disordered answers because that's where all the whirlwinds come from.  You could stop doing this, you could always do that, you need this and this and this.  But that's not what this is about, those aren't the actual problems. 

The real enemy is disordered thinking and you have to get past the surface level stuff to really talk about the actual problems.  In most cases, it's not feeling loved, seen, or respected.  That's why my standard response, "I love you, I'm here for you no matter what..." sort of tackles all the BPD objections at once.  I just kept saying it, especially when things were ugly, especially when I wanted to fight back or tell them off for the ridiculous things that were being said.

I hope that helps!

As of this minute she is your ex. This was her choice so in my opinion you have every right to contact your cousin and explain the situation.

I’ve been there. My ex has lied to her friends and her boyfriend about me and a family member to justify her behaviour. As said it doesn’t end there and continues with whom ever the disordered person feels justified in singling out again.

Looking back at my relationship it both angers me and makes me ashamed how I was manipulated in this way. My dad died 10 years ago. My mum used to come round most Sundays to see us, because she was alone and needed support from loved ones. My ex would make me lock the door and pretend we were out because she didn’t want my mum disturbing her from watching crap on the tv and her drug abuse. When in the relationship you don’t see the situation with the clarity that it deserves.

Hi Pook 075,

That is so amazing that you figured out a way of talking that is really effective in keeping most conversations calm between you and your ex-wife and daughter. Kudos to you!! I am curious though - how do you think this would play out if you were still living with both of them and the pressure/expectation was naturally much higher? I guess it's impossible to really know since this isn't the current reality, but what is your guess?

Right now your spouse is convinced she is in full control of the children and parenting.  She may also be capable and willing to do anything (scary concept!) to sabotage your parenting, even file DV or child endangerment/neglect allegations against you.  However...

Though she  believes she is the sole decision maker and final authority and you have the authority of a brick... which is partially true since you both currently have equal but undefined authority as parents without any current family court orders... if you should separate and/or divorce, then the family court will become The Real Authority.

But... probably best not to share that news with her.  Why?  It's hard to say in advance what information may enable her to sabotage your future parenting options.

That said, you would be benefit greatly by confidentially and privately seeking consultations with a few experienced local family law attorneys or solicitors.  At least some of the advice you hear will help you to determine what steps you need to take to protect yourself and your parenting in future years.

Thanks from the heart for such wise words and for this addional point of view.

It's hard to get out of established, unhealthy patterns of behavior with a pwBPD, and that's what struck me, reading this.  You keep getting drawn down the path with her.

You need to realize you're alone here and behave accordingly; she's not going to consider what's best for the kids, or for you, or for all of you as a family.  She's only going to look out for herself, and even then, not consider the long term, just whatever her immediate wants of her disordered BPD mind are.

As someone who moved - partially after discussing w/BPDxw who was 100% in favor of the move - and then got divorced and stuck where I am until my kids are 18, do not move anywhere you don't want to be long term, or at least for the foreseeable future.  If she keeps persisting in this demand, you need to put a stop to that, or have the mental fortitude to avoid giving in.  Sounds like you know this, but I just wanted to reinforce it!

The last time I remember going along with something BPDxw insisted on as a couple I got burned, and I realized then I was no longer going to treat her as a co-parent, or respect her wishes or demands, and I would parent on my own, for the sake of our daughter.  It was literally my last week living with her before moving out and filing for divorce.  Ironically, BPDxw laid down that gauntlet, telling me one night that we were going to get divorced, after I drew my own line in the sand and refused to apologize for her awful behavior during a very public blow up a week before that.  We agreed we would tell our daughter in the morning about our decision.  Well, after I went to bed, she woke our daughter up in the middle of the night and told her I was "leaving her" i.e. my daughter, and said something along the lines of me not wanting to be her father anymore. 

Nice, right? 

That helped me see that I needed to cut her out of my own decision-making process, which was very clarifying and helpful.  Although I could not avoid having to co-parent with her, I would not have to include her in my decision making or my parenting time, and give her further and ongoing leverage over me, and allow her to unduly influence my daughter or her view of me.  It wasn't always easy, but it's definitely been better than it could have been, had I gone along with BPDxw.

Like you're seeing now, with the newfound affection she seems to have for you, I saw BPDxw try different "tricks" to get to me after it became clear divorce was happening: first she'd go with angry demands, then insults, then cajoling, then promises of quid-pro-quo deals that I knew better than to trust, etc. She kept trying to get me to admit I was having an affair (I was not, though she might have been), and I remember her saying something like it was better to admit to her I was having an affair for our daughter's sake, and she wouldn't use it in court.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth.  Don't even allow her to "frame" the situation or decisions you need to make.  Do what's best for you and the kids.  Trying to please a pwBPD in any way just leads you down a slippery slope.

Well, now, I agree that distancing yourself from him is the right thing to do, but is he "unwell"?  He's openly lying to your face, and has a history of lying compulsively to get his way, to avoid responsibility, and to manipulate others.  He knows what he's doing; he even ran away from one place when he wore out his welcome there.  Honestly he sounds more akin to NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) than BPD, although comorbidity of those is more likely in men, as I understand it. 

I know someone who is mentally ill; he likely has full blown paranoid schizophrenia, and this developed later in life (in his 40's).  I saw he had some professional issues, and looked him up, and was floored when I found a twitter feed where he was apparently hospitalized on a psych hold, and claiming someone was burning his hair out and skin with chemicals, and his family was barred from seeing him.  He had a couple arrests for stalking his ex-wife. 

He was clearly unwell.  He could perhaps be put on anti-psychotic drugs to curb the behavior and get him functional again.  The stalking charges were forgivable in the context; he likely didn't fully grasp what he was doing, as his mind was incapable of perceiving reality like you or I would. 

Now compare this with your ex... what's going to make him stop lying to people compulsively like that?  How would you ever know whether it was true or not? 

Looking for the good in people is widely considered a positive personal trait.  We celebrate it in others.  "I'm a glass half full person."  But when you're dealing with a pwBPD, it's toxic; it draws you right into a web of deceit and keeps you there, as they are adept at getting you to chase their "good side" by showing you their "bad side"; they draw you in deeper and deeper by holding that wonderful love and affection they showed you at first out as a "carrot" ... if you can only do or say the right thing, they'll be better and you'll live happily ever after, right?  But reality isn't like that, and you chase and chase and chase that dream, until you wise up. 


Absolutely.  Like I said, distancing yourself from people with behavioral disorders is the right thing to do, and I'm not saying otherwise.  It might be the only thing you can do, in order to avoid getting dragged down into the mud with them. 

Though a doctor can diagnose and cure most cruise ship illnesses... psychiatrists and psychologists have a much worse track record with BPD and other behavioral disorders.  They're not the same thing.