The firm nice response to the neighbor does not work for me or anybody else. She mistakes this for an invitation to continue violating boundaries until she gets her way. I find that ignoring her completely, or blowing up at her works better than anything else. I am uncomfortable with treating another human being this way.

My late dBPD mom would tell me unsavory things about relatives which sounded plausible.  But she had to be a fly on the wall in homes where these things supposedly took place when I thought about it a second time. She had no real friends she could get this information from.  I concluded it was made up. To her it was real. pwBPD can have auditory and visual hallucinations. Maybe this explains it?

I confronted my mother at times, not the unsavory gossip though. She would become enraged and call me names. She never improved or understood what I meant.   I'm sure she believed she was telling the truth. I'm sure she thought I was the troubled one abusing her.

I realize it was a mistake to treat her like a child who needed discipline instead of the older lady with a mental disorder. Some things are not worth pursuing with pwBPD.

Should a similar story come from her again you can ask the business if it happened by prefacing it by saying mom is prone to telling tall tales.  At least you know not to take what she says at face value.

About her tuning out lately, she might be dissociating. My mom would be too quiet and her demeanor was flat and unemotional at times. It's part of the disorder.

Zachira,

It's wonderful that you are nice.  I hope you don't see that as a weakness or a fault!  I think that you can still be nice, while not letting someone else's negativity get the better of you.  I know, it's extremely hard when someone in the immediate family has BPD--their aura is negative and toxic, probably most of the time.  You've developed a highly sensitive, bad-mood radar (short for Rage/Anger Detection Alert Response)?  The good news here is this woman is neither family nor living with you.  You can still be nice, and you can still enforce boundaries.  You can say, Good morning.  You can say, What nice weather today.  You can say, Can't talk now, I'm in a rush.  And you can say, My property is my private business, thank you for respecting that.  Always courteous, almost busines-like, and firm.

If this woman can't take a hint and continues to pester you about your property, you can repeat your phrase, My property is my private business, thank you for respecting that.  If she says, Yes, but . . . then your next line could be, Could you repeat that?  Like you're actually CONFUSED as to why she would have any opinion whatsoever about your private property, and that she'd disrespect your right to privacy.  If she still continues undeterred, then you could say, My property is none of your business, I'm not discussing it with you further.  Have a nice day, and walk away (or hang up the phone).  You might feel flustered after saying something like that, and that's OK.

CC43,
Thank you for your helpful reply. I have some work to do on not getting sucked into her feelings. She is such an angry unhappy woman and I have been way nicer to her than most people would be. I have a lot to learn about setting boundaries with people like her: nice in the beginning, than show their true colors. One of my friends recently told me I get involved with the wrong people because I am way too nice. I realize I enable behaviors that other people would not put up with.

I found this to be a particularly worrying sign of my ex's BPD - the fact that not only would she lie, but the lies she told were so ridiculous and instantly disproved. She lied before ever engaging her brain, saying the first thing that came into her head without any attempt at realism.

Her most classic episode was when she waved her hand in my face loudly yelling 'You never buy me anything!'. Freeze-frame the picture; on her fingers were gold, diamond and sapphire rings. On her wrist was two heavy gold bracelets. Around her neck was a gold chain. All bought by me. She also had other jewelry I'd bought her back at her home.

Everything was right in front of her face as she yelled at me. That was also a scary part for me as I thought 'How can anyone be so disconnected from reality??'

I'm fairly sure that even without BPD she would still have been an incredibly moody and manipulating person and I often wonder if this would magnify any subsequent mental illness she developed?. I'm pretty sure it would.

Under, you may be onto something here. BPDx would do seemingly 'uncontrollable' things like tapping me on the shoulder in the middle of a task, then get upset and accuse me of wanting him to '________ off' if i didn't immediately give him attention. But he was quite successful in some respects, had a job and great qualifications. He knew it wasn't OK to interrupt any person, any time.

He didn't berate random people for not reacting enough to his threats of self harm either, that was specially for me.



I have reflected on this. On the one hand, BPDx may well be so overwhelmed with his emotions he does not know what is real. On the other... he knew enough to lie and conceal his misdeeds for as long as possible.

On the other other hand, his lies were not very effective - they were desperate, unstable and very likely to be found out (as they eventually were). It seems like a frantic, unstable oscillation between different mental realities.

Whether they are intentionally 'dishonest' as an affect state - at som :(e times BPDx certainly has been - the words and *also the emotional and non verbal communications* (thank you for this itemisation!) seem to lead (or have lead in this case) in the opposite direction from truth. Trust is impossible.

It's hard to describe BPD because in one context, they CAN'T control their emotions: when they dysregulate.  But other times they can.  When "the cameras are rolling" so to speak, and they know there's an audience there judging them, they can be quite charming and sweet, and even tolerant.

But the calculating aspect of it, manipulating their partners/friends/family using mood swings, outbursts, etc. does seem to imply they can control their emotions.

For this reason, I sometimes wonder if anti-social personality disorder (ASPD) is more what we're dealing with.  or some blend of BPD and ASPD. 

I think I come back to some earlier thoughts I had that these are not like physical illnesses you can objectively diagnose, like taking a flu test for example.  It's far more complicated than that.

It might be more effective to think of it another way. 

On a fundamental level, such people are dishonest in their emotional, verbal, and non-verbal communications.  You really can't trust them in any way shape or form, and therefore it's not possible to form a relationship with them as we expect we are.

hi!  your story PIERCES my heart!  My oldest daughter, now 26 was diagnosed with BPD 3 1/2 years ago, (quick version) I researched this, read all of the books she told me to, joined NAMI, I was (as you reference!) her favorite person (which, I have found is NOT the best place to be...she had me sleeping over, hiding her kitchen knives, hiding her pills, would text all day long, etc.) until I was NOT the favorite person....apparently (splitting?) that makes you hated....I have not seen my daughter for 3 years, (her choice) she said she "needed space & would reach out, when she was ready" (I text her every holiday, bday & send cards, gift cards, etc.) she has not responded for the last 6 months (I am lucky she speak to my mom) it is heart wrenching; like you, it is awkward when friends ask how she is, etc.  I have poured over pictures, cards (how did i not KNOW this?) I have a therapist who specializes in young adults with BPD and I am finally embracing happiness (I feel guilty, how can I be happy when I don't see my CHILD?) and I am familiar with the "grieving a live person"; she (i have learned the term "ghosted" me, her father, her sister & her beautiful nieces (the youngest 2, we practically raised) BPD is a BEAST and I am very sorry you are going through this....I love talking about BPD, feel free to reach out (though I will be out of town for 2 weeks

Hi Einstein,

With a name like Einstein, I bet you're a thoughtful, logical person.  That might be why your mom's often irrational, emotional reactions can seem confusing.  With BPD, it's fairly common to feel aggrieved where no offense was ever intended.  Maybe the tree experts mentioned a species of tree (or pest) that your mom confused with something else, and in her confusion, she felt slighted, maybe made to feel stupid or inferior.  Maybe she was upset because the arborists "criticized" a plant on her property, when she thinks it looks fine.  Then she concocted a story where the arborists "made fun of" her, when all they were doing was explaining the situation or proposing services.  My guess is that your mom was venting her shame with you.

I like NotWendy's boundary suggestion.  Another one might be, if your mom has a problem that's inconsequential, you let her sort it out.  You don't have to rush in and "fix" manufactured problems for your mom.  She's an adult, right?

One technique I find helpful sometimes is to "slow walk."  That is, when a pwBPD traits is upset, outraged or venting, I tend to let them have at it.  I try to resist "jumping in" with questions, let alone solutions.  I try to slow my reactions down, to see if the situation will fizzle out without any intervention from me.  Sometimes I'll "buy time," with a neutral statement like, uh huh.  If I'm pressured to intervene, maybe I'll say in as neutral a tone as possible, "If you want to call them, you don't need me to do that."  Or maybe, "I'm in a rush right now."  If I buy enough time, more often than not, the emotions will fizzle out.  By the same token, she won't want to spend her OWN time and energy on the problem.  At the end of the day, by slow walking, I often save my own time and emotional energy, too.  Does that seem like something that might work in your situation?

Exactly, well done.  I could imagine that your neighbor might intentionally be making a racket when she knows you're around to listen, a sort of passive-aggressive, thinly veiled expression of frustration, perhaps tinged with harsh judgment and superciliousness.  But remember, you don't have to be infected by her sour mood.  Try to do something else.  Maybe you can pity the neighbor for not having anything more interesting or substantitive to think about.  And you don't have to pay her any heed, UNLESS she messes with your property again.  Then you can take a picture and report her if you think it's necessary.  Your boundary could be, if she messes with your property without your consent, you report her, because she's not allowed to do that.  Otherwise, just let her work out her negative feelings without getting sucked in.