I’m trying to make sense of this girl I was seeing and whether she might have BPD traits. I’ve dated someone before who clearly did (suicidal threats, massive fear of abandonment, really unstable relationships), so I kind of know what that can look like, but with this girl, I’m not sure.

She does tick a few boxes since she can get paranoid, she seems impulsive, and she’s fallen out with loads of friends (she told me she’s lost a lot over the years). She also has an eating disorder. The weirdest part for me, though, is how much she lies. She told me she never lies, but I kept catching her out, and then she’d just say that it was obvsiouly a joke and how I am the one who can't be trusted.

What throws me off is that the fear of abandonment doesn’t really seem to be there. If anything, she’s the one who drops people and moves on to another guy straight away. She also constantly put me down and insulted me even though we were only seeing each other for about a month. It was insanely intense. Sometimes she’d straight-up lie about things I’d supposedly done in the past to make me look like the bad guy, and she’s even admitted she’s manipulated men before.
She was also obsessed with me and her having “low body counts,” which doesn’t add up because she tried to sleep with me on the second date, so it makes me wonder if she’s lying about that too. Now she’s in my college class, so I see her all the time, and since she dumped me she doesn’t even look at me.

Another weird thing is how pretty she thinks she is and tells herself but then she has insane body dysmorphia and is constantly judging and making little comments at every girl she sees whos overweight or not that pretty. She judges EVERYONE who walks by her.

On top of all that, she told me she dated her therapist (a 26-year-old woman) when she was 16, even though she says she’s straight. Honestly, nothing about her story fully adds up, and it really messes with my head because the intimate moments were amazing, and sometimes she genuinely seemed sweet and caring.

I'm. not 100% sure why I am writing on this forum, I guess I would like some sort of clarity on if she is a borderline or narcissist or if anyone can relate to the lying and how judgemental a borderline partner or ex has been. It is strange because having previously dated a clear borderline before this new girl is confusing me and my nervous system has been completely in tatters and I am not sure how to deal with it since I still see her in class 4 times a week.

These are good questions for me to ponder, thank you for them. Yes, she has supported me with her remote job as we've moved abroad to another country. So I definitely have some dependency/feeling of being both indebted and grateful.

In part, I think the grief is over the good things I may be losing - we're deeply connected intellectually and could talk and joke for hours, we've been through so much together (idk, could be a trauma bond, but we've also supported each other), and she has a novel and artistic approach to the world. It's also my first really long relationship, and I found that I liked the camaraderie and the feeling of knowing someone deeply.

But also in that deep knowledge of her, I'm coming up against this strong sense that I'm not capable of facing and sustaining the turmoil. We've been to couples therapy, tried many breaks, different living arrangements, different relationship structures, a few moves, etc. And I just don't feel okay anymore. There's a lot of sadness that arises for me in sensing that I take the turmoil very hard - it hits on my depression and family history, and as I've recoiled from the conflict, my feelings of safety and desire within the relationship have withered. I would've liked to be the person that could handle this, I think - for her sake, and for the part of me that wants to be able to do relationships on hard mode (another desire arising from my family system). But I don't feel a lot of willingness anymore, and she is in a stage where she doesn't think the BP tendencies are a factor. Makes me feel hopeless and isolated in the relationship. Anyway, that's what I'm currently mulling over.

Very common.. and probably one of the main symptoms of BPD.

It all comes down to identity and security - or rather, their lack of it. They don't know who they are and can change their wants and needs literally by the minute, as their emotions dictate. We non-BPD's have some sense of who we are and what we want from life - yes, sometimes we can also change our minds and maybe make the odd rash decision but by and large we have it under control, have a plan and can follow it, whereas the BPD can't.

Hence nothing ever being enough for them, be that love.. ambition.. life goals, etc.  They'll flick from idea to idea constantly, They want things then promptly discard them, they make grand plans which fall apart very quickly as their mood changes.  In short, nothing - and nobody - is ever enough to satisfy them or make them feel secure.  Bit like someone with a hobby who flicks from one project to the next without ever completing anything.

They're constantly hunting for something they can never have and be content with. Massively frustrating for the non-BPD partner.

I'm focusing on this quote from Pook075 :

"They just want to feel loved and supported in every interaction. They want to feel like they matter and they're seen."

I will paste an interaction below that was a complete game changer. She was again screaming for help, asking to stay here for a weekend because her mother stresses her out. And a single answer I did completely flipped the angry pattern that she had been showing for days.

---

Her: HOW ARE WE GOING TO SOLVE THIS??? THIS WOMAN GETS DRUNK AND WANTS TO HOLD MY DAUGHTER
HOW ARE WE GOING TO SOLVE THIS?
Because I'M ABOUT TO DO SOMETHING CRAZY HERE
???
You're going to avoid responsibility, aren't you!

Me: no

Her: Your problem is only seeing me for 30 minutes

Me: I would like to be respected

Her: Respected for what?
Can you be clearer?
"no" what?

Me: The "no" is for that --> You're going to avoid responsibility, aren't you!

---

After this, she immediately cooled off, stopped sending frantic messages, and switched back to being warm with me again, calling me love. Then she began to question that I said days ago that I had said that I was not making any effort, so I answered this:

---

Me: You're making a big deal out of nothing. You know very well that I'm moving mountains for you.

Her: But why did you say that then, dear?
You hurt me.
Do you agree that you said it just to hurt me?

Me: No, I didn't mean to hurt you. I'm sorry if it did. But I only said it so you would stop digging up problems we don't have anymore.

Her: Okay.
Soon I will be there, ok?
We can lunch at the bar, if possible.

---

At this point I was resisting allowing her to be here, but since she was now treating me with respect and being humble, I decided to give in. Some time later, I got a bit frustrated in the conversation because she had not scheduled her therapy yet and was eating bread despite being gluten sensitive, so I almost gave a bad response and went back on my decision, but I thought twice and didn't mess it up. Because I reminded myself that she is just needing to feel supported.

She postponed it, so today I got just our boy, and tomorrow she might come, but for only one night.

Hi DesertDreamer,

Yes, a single bedroom makes it harder to have space. On the other hand, having two comfortable bedrooms and a full-time job out of the home would help to have some space (to some degree).

Having temporary distancing from time to time is always helpful for relationships with a BPD partner. So when you end your stay, you might feel like things have improved, but you must know this is temporary.

Are you feeling guilt because you feel responsible for her? Or is it because she has supported you in some form?

And is your grief related to some kind of fear of being lonely or not being able to be in a relationship with someone else that fulfills you as much?

In my first relationship, I had this strong fear. But over time I understood that new partners always come naturally and quickly when you are ready. I also understood that being fulfilled is kind of easy; you just need to invest emotionally in your partner, and you'll be reciprocated.

Hi Zoogman ,

I see how difficult it's being for you. She unconsciously tries to initiate a conflict by stating some discussion that should elicit negative responses from you, and to nullify her attempt, you must respond positively instead. It's not just your words, it's your attitude and feelings expressed.

But it seems like you still love her, do you? Because focusing on this feeling is key. As I'm learning from Pook in other threads, showing that you love her in every interaction and that you are there for her will disarm her and avoid conflicts. And this makes sense to the neurobiology because feeling loved also stimulates the EOS, along with other pathways.

Maybe you are now feeling overwhelmed by negative emotions, but it is possible to have multiple emotions at the same time for a person, and you can try to focus on the one that works for her. Then use that to guide your interactions. Recently I have done that, and I got excellent results, completely disarming my wife.

This is something my ex’s sister has said repeatedly about her, enough is never enough, she is never happy with what she has got.

Now this statement is true for pretty much every aspect of her life. From a relationship point of view, even though we would go out to restaurants quite often, it was never often enough. Not enough holidays. Not enough of me telling her I loved her, even though I’d tell her every day, or that she didn’t feel loved enough.

Not just the relationship. Businesses’ as well. She opened one business, but that wasn’t enough so she wanted another branch of that business. When a shop next door to the first business became vacant, she wanted that as well to open a completely different business. And then a local pub became vacant, she had ideas about taking that on too until I put my foot down.

Then there is stuff. We had a car, a saloon car. A fast car because she likes the thrill of driving fast. Because we have dogs, that wasn’t enough so we needed an estate car (or station wagon for you folks in the US) to carry the dogs in. And because over here we have a weeks sunshine a year, she needed a convertible as well. She also had another convertible classic car I bought her because she thought she deserved it. Not just cars, furniture as well. We lived, I live, in a small two bed semi. We had, I think, about six couches. Not enough room for them so three were in storage but still. I even had to build two extensions on our property just because the amount of furniture she would buy meant we didn’t have the room for it.

Food. The amount of food she would buy and end up throwing away, with refuse bins overflowing every week.

But the reason I’m posting this is the dogs. We have three. The last one we got about 3 months before we split up, but in those three months she was still looking online at adverts for puppies.
We were offered that puppies sister as well but I again put my foot down and said no, which is a good thing as that puppy ended up dying within a year from a heart condition. She rented a house for a year post breakup, and we shared looking after the dogs so we would each have them for half of the week. Then she moved in with her boyfriend, but would still come round three or four times a week to take them out. Then, last December she went about a month without seeing them at all. Since then she has seen them once a week for the last couple of weeks. I’d started to wonder why, as they were one of the most important things in her life. Yesterday I bumped into my brother in law (ex’s sisters husband) and he invited me round for coffee. It cropped up during conversation that she has now gone out and got two more puppies.

So is this behaviour common? And what drives it?

Thanks SuperDaddy,

I don’t know enough to speak to the neurobiology, but what you shared fits my experience of how engagement escalates things rather than resolves them.Things have calmed down, but still fragile. It just seems like now, i have to live without showing feelings (but knowing accusations of being cold, numb, insensitive will come up again and again)..... 

I have accepted the fact that i will never be able fix things.  I just try not to stir the pot or not have things repeat over and over.  When things from the past arise or are said, they hurt, but still learning on how to navigate around and not sit there and defend myself over and over.  She still brings things up from 20 years ago, and I am truthful when i tell her I'm not going to argue the past because i don't recall all the events/discussions at that time, I'm more concerned about our present state.  Usually this will fuel her up, but i am holding the lighter. 

The "joy" for her lately just seems to come from seeing everyone down or hurt.  The other day i came home in a good mood from work and because she saw me in a good mood, immediately the accusations come flying such as the reason i was in a good mood was because i found someone to mess around or having a fling with (she knows this hurts me and i have told her a number of times that these false accusations hurt).  Now I'm finding ways to be clever, such as "Thanks for asking, but my boss just told me about my annual salary increase and my bonus will be coming in first quarter."  You would think someone would apologize or show remorse, but i can probably count on my hand the number of times she has ever apologized to me.

Don't get me wrong, we have had good times and there are days that surprise me, but it has taught me to appreciate the good times that arise, and how to avoid the fuel with the lighter.  There just seems to be some small sparks that i have no control over.  I am committed but probably should be committed.       

Thanks Pook075 for the clarification on apologies.

Sorry ForeverDad for my misunderstanding of your intentions.

Hi CC43,

That's not entirely precise. My wife's mother is not a caretaker in the emotional sense. She is the provider and homeowner but actually makes things worse in the emotional sense because she is very hyperactive and wants to take control over everything about her daughter and grandkids. In my presence, her mother behaves well, but when I'm not present, she becomes hostile, complaining of everything and cursing all of the time. And when she drinks alcohol, she becomes more aggressive. She becomes a nightmare for my wife. With her sister, she isn't having so much trouble. Her mom works 3x3 (3 days working, 3 days resting), so during the 3 days in which her mother is absent, things are easier for her. But not quite easy because of the kids.

Her biggest complaint now is that she can't sleep enough. I have just accepted her to come in today and go back on Sunday. I'll need to cross my fingers so that the plan works.

I think we should apologize for feelings and facts.  If I did something wrong, I'll say I'm wrong.  Or if I hurt my ex's feelings, I will apologize for her feeling upset and state that it wasn't my intention to hurt her or upset her.

However, I don't apologize for distorted narratives and nobody should.

In that same moment where you're getting a distorted narrative though, you can apologize for how she's feeling and make it known that you can see her frustration.  That can sometimes end the rant without actually agreeing about anything.