Thankful,

I think you might try to have a talk with your wife when she's calm.  If you confront her in the moment, she's already upset and will probably get extremely defensive.

I agree with ForeverDad, it sounds like your spouse is competing with you rather than partnering with you.  She could be jealous when the children approach you for help first.  I think this is akin to the fear of abandonment that is so triggering for pwBPD--in essence she feels the kids are rejecting and "abandoning" her in favor of you.  It might also be a control thing--she wants full ownership and control over the kids, maybe because she feels she lacks control in all other parts of her life?  Maybe it's an issue of identity--when the kids start to pull away, exert independence or approach you rather than her, she feels like she's "less" of a Mum, and if she's not a Mum, then who is she anyway?

But the way I see things, you are married, and you are just as much a parent as she is.  While you may divvy up some caretaking responsibilities according to preferences and skills, you should have equal say on the important things.  With so many little ones, I think the reality is that the kids need BOTH parents.  It's not the kids' job to worry about which parent to approach for help, or to worry about offending their Mum.  But right now, it seems to me you two aren't on the same page.  It just isn't feasible for your spouse to control 100% of what happens to the kids because she's in college and needs your help.  She needs to learn to share the decision-making and share the joys of parenting as well.  Love should be multiplied, not divided.

I think you talk to her about this.  I'd try not to blame her, but try to develop a shared vision of the family dynamic.  One approach I mentioned earlier--since your spouse appears to feel left out of parenting in the mornings, she could reduce her course load so that she can be awake when the kids are up.  That way, she doesn't have to feel she misses out so much.  She wouldn't have to reduce her course load forever--she could frame it as "ramping up."  Even for a person without BPD, going to college while handling childcare simultaneously is a huge adjustment.  It might help if she had more time to adjust to it, and get back into the practice of doing academics again, just at a more gradual pace.

As for the problem of getting bent out of shape if you comfort a kid at nighttime, I might frame that as, "I put our little one back to bed so that you wouldn't be awakened.  I was being nice and helpful."  Now, she might see that as an affront.  You might ask her, "Why do you think I did something wrong?"  She might fly off the handle and accuse you of disobeying her, excluding her, disrespecting her and her wishes, trying to turn her kid against her, etc.  If she gets really bent out of shape, then I think she's not able to listen to you anymore, and you might need to stop talking.  Nevertheless, you'll have some clues about her distorted thinking process.  But if she's reasonably calm, and if you stay calm, you can insist, you did what was right for the child, AND you were doing something nice for her, too.  I think that deep down, she knows she's being unreasonable.  Just repeat your stance, calmly, reassuringly, "I did the right thing, and I wanted to do something nice for you too," and maybe it will start to sink in.  Maybe not at that second, but sometime down the road.  You see, pwBPD tend to assume the worst, and they see negatives where there aren't any.  Sometimes I think they need help to clarify things, reframe them and learn to see some positives.

I have arguments like this with my own spouse.  He has a habit of accusing me of futuristic things that haven't even happened, like:  "Don't get upset if she's late for dinner!!!!"  My standard response to this is, "Please don't pick on me for things I haven't done."  If he berates me more, I'll say, "I'm not discussing something that hasn't even happened," and I might leave the room to get away.  I say these phrases so often that he starts to see what he's doing, and now he'll back off more quickly, because he sees how he's being naggy, unfair and projecting his own insecurities onto me.  Arguing about things I haven't actually done is just as silly about arguing about how you comfort the kids and let your wife get restful sleep.  But I think the root of it all is deep insecurity, as well as a general feeling of overwhelm and lack of agency.

Another tactic I'd recommend is abundant praise, and pointing out the good things.  Let's say your wife has a restful sleep.  I might say something like, "Isn't it wonderful to get a full night's sleep?"  Or, "The kids are all dressed and ready!  Now they can give Mum a huge good morning hug!"  I guess what I'm saying is that you can manufacture some happy moments and remind everyone how good the day is, just by praising the simplest things.  With my spouse, I try to notice something nice that he does every day, and praise him for it:  "It's wonderful to have a husband who makes such good coffee."  And I mean it.

Hello again,

I really feel for you, I know how hard it is when a person with BPD is „in their cycle“. I would suggest you try to negotiate this new boundaries when she is calm, like that it is ok children show  you the picture first, that you do not have to tell your wifeif D4 just needed a little reassurence in the night and you did not make a whole thing out of it by waking your wife also. As I am sure, you are aware, a parent without personality problems would probably be proud of D4 that she was a brave girl and went back to her bed. I am wondering, what woukd happen if you tokd your wife next time this happens and she seems in a good moo, how proud you were od D4 that she went back to her own bed during the night? I would not mention she did not want to go to mom’s bed, just trying to keep it positive?

As for something concreete to say when your wife demands from your children to not get pictures out of their bags without her, I would try responding calmly that ofcorse children have a right to get things out of their bags without her or you, it might happen that a friend or a teacher is the first one to be shown a picture and that is normallynd ok  too. I would  also immediatley say to a child that she did nothing wrong snd that she was acting normal and try to get her away from raging mum.

 I think that boundaries should be renegotiated in calm times and as was said before, routine a bit reformed, CC43‘s answer is very usfull and this is one of the battles I think you should pick. Maybe also make a strategy with your wife what to do if one of you (that she does not feel threatened) is screemeing, like that the other should take the children away etc.
I wish you the best of luck and calm nerves to stoicly make these boundaries work.

If it helps to have some insight from the "other side"- this is the dynamic I grew up in. My BPD mother perceived herself from the victim perspective and my father took on the rescuer role. (Karmpan triangle dynamics). As CC43 described "black and white thinking" - my mother perceived people as being "on her side" or "not her side". While it doesn't make sense that something as trivial as buying the "wrong" toy would elicit this dynamic- for this dynamic to prevail- there needs to be someone or something that has "wronged" her. For some reason it's the people closest to the spouse that are disliked, perhaps because it feels threatening to them.

The illusion for me was seeing her as the problem and my father as the good guy victim in this dynamic, but the dynamic involved the two of them. Maybe, like your stepson, he saw this as the only way to hold the family together. What I do know is that he was in "survival" mode doing so- working, supporting us, and also dealing with a disordered spouse and that her reaction to not having things her way was way worse than to disappoint/dismiss the family members who were not disordered. This is the only way I know to rationalize this. It isn't anything you or your husband did or didn't do, so trying to reason or  explain to the BPD spouse doesn't work.

The making contact and then backing out behavior is due to your stepson's situation and him wrestling with his own conscience. I believe he knows better and I believe he wants contact. He likely set up the meeting and insisted on it but as the time/date got closer, his wife escalated to the point where he had to back down in order to manage.

Truly, the only person who can change this dynamic is your step son, if he ever chooses to do that. I understand it's little consolation to you and your H to know this is not personal to either of you. It's not about buying the wrong toy. Your step son isn't rejecting either of you. Why he's engaging in this dynamic isn't logical.

On your part, I think it's good to maintain some contact, but not emotional or reactive. If you can send a Christmas card to your son's workplace- he is more likely to receive it, or text him when he's at work. He may not be able to reply ( my mother read my father's emails and listened in on phone calls) but he may at least see them. Texts like "thinking of you this Christmas"- that don't ask for a reply let him know the door is still open to him, should he choose to engage.

Parenting is a joint venture that ought to be focused on togetherness.  Sounds like she's competing with you, which isn't a healthy thing to do.  I don't know how to compete with that.  Criticism and lack of respect is so destructive.

Thank you CC43 for your kind words and advice and also forever dad for your perspective. I’m fully committed to doing the right thing. So next time my wife is shouting  at me or the kids about some ridiculous thing they’ve done like the example above, how am I to respond? What about when she says things like, “you know I don’t like them getting pictures or things out of their bags without me!” She mostly expresses this in the light that she finds it deeply upsetting, and knows that most other people wouldn’t feel the same way.

Ahhhh…I just want to scream!  My uBPDh split about a week ago, as usual, I have no idea why. As we are currently living apart, as he is on probation and there was a protection order on me, which I have adjusted so we could live together, but have decided to not do so until he is off probation. He showed up to our son’s basketball game this past Saturday with my stepdaughter. My youngest wanted to go with him after the game as she wanted to see her stepsister, as she rarely sees her. I agreed, as he was in his phase where he treats the kids like royalty but anyone else, especially me, like crap. The next morning, he texts me to say he will drop her off at our house at 10:40.  Ok.  Essentially, I am a single mom of 4 very active kids right now, that works part time, has a prn position and just interviewed for another PRN position as I can’t afford to support 4 kids(including paying for daycare on the days we both work cause why would it be his responsibility to do so), myself, all of our house bills and living bills. I am completely exhausted, if I am to do anything for myself I have to get up at 4 or 5 am to attempt to work out. My D, SD and H get to the house and I was upstairs getting ready for the day. I come downstairs and of course get a face because I didn’t run over to the door. H and SD leave and my daughter gets upset because I took my other daughter to get her nails done as we had planned to do, but my youngest chose to go with my h. My D starts crying because of this and my H comes flying back in the house. That threw me over the edge as he wants no responsibility, he was ready to go to the gym and do for him, but tried to make it seem like he was this amazing dad. I loathe it and did not walk away like I should have. After that, he text me “to document” that he was the one comforting our children, blah blah blah! I just erased it and went on with my day. I gave space for a couple of days, then reached out to let him know that the kids and I had gotten safely to our vacation spot for Thanksgiving and then on Thanksgiving to say happy Thanksgiving, that we loved him and missed him. I got no response. This is not the first time he has done this, I plan to just continue to give space and to reach out to his sister, who knows the  situation, on Monday if I don’t hear from him to make sure he is ok. I know when he doesn’t respond it is best to give space. I am struggling, but feel for my kids, as they deserve to have their dad be a part of their lives everyday and that’s not possible.
As if things are not hard enough, my kids and I are away to celebrate Thanksgiving with my side of the family. While my H was first excited to go, he then backed out. My parents are older and while healthy, my dad struggles with his memory and their lives are very different than mine or my sister’s (who has 1 child). My sister has always been very opinionated and pushes her way of life onto everyone. Prior to our trip I had to have a meeting with her, at her request, to agree on a plan for when the kids can use iPads on our trip, as she won’t let her son watch and I don’t care if and when my kids do. Her “compromise” was that iPads not be brought in the vacation! to which I didn’t agree. Well, tonight my sister was talking to my mom at dinner, her son bumped into my mom and my mom turned her attention to him for a split second. My sister lost it in my mom. Stood up, started sternly talking to my mom as her boyfriend (of 27 years she refuses to get married) walks out. I ask her to leave as well as I am not ok making a scene, to which she tells me then that I should leave. She tells her son to leave, and he asks to stay with my kids, to which she does not agree. They finally leave. I take my parents back to the house as well as my kids. My d11 was crying at the restaurant, her response to fighting. She is covered in a rash when we get home. I ask my sister if she has any Benadryl and she loses it on me, that I have all of these issues and why am I backing my parents, blah blah blah. I told her that I refuse to talk to her when she is amped up, and that I am leaving to get my daughter medication. I get back, and my sister is verbally attacking my mom in the kitchen with all of the kids around. I ask her to stop and do this another time when tempers are lower and she starts screaming at me. I tell her my daughter was crying and that is unacceptable. She then goes into my mom bed room and continues her verbal assault. My dad goes to step in and she verbally attacks him (he is 80) my sister tells him to stay out and he says no that’s my wife you are talking to. He then goes to my sisters boyfriend and my sister storms out and screams so loud at my dad slams doors, etc All of the kids are screaming at this point. I go to comfort the kids, including my nephew, she comes to get him and try’s to apologize to the kids but I close the door. About an hour later, she comes up and asks if I need any help packing…um no not from you! I don’t even know what to do. My sister and I are very close, and so are our kids, they play sports together, etc…but honestly I don’t want anything to do with her right now. No I am sure that I am not perfect and I am sure my parents aren’t either, but WTF! That was NOT ok and I think we need some space from her for a long time. I don’t think that I can just pretend that didn’t happen…I just want to hide in a cave with my kids! Not really! But I can’t deal with others issues any more!

I haven't been in a situation like the one you describe,  but I think I can empathize.  All parents want to help their kids, as well as have a loving relationship with them.  The idea of cutting off contact seems antithetical to that. 

The reality is that your daughter is a full-grown adult, and that she is dealing with real mental illness.  Even so, just because she has BPD does not give her a free pass to treat you like dirt, let alone threaten violence.  You may have allowed her to get her way, exploit you and treat you badly in the name of reducing stress for your daughter and keeping her alive.  I have been in that situation--feeling like I'm allowing behavior that goes against my values, just to keep someone safe and alive, and sometimes just to keep the peace.  I know what it feels like to live in crisis mode all the time, and wincing whenever the phone rings at an odd hour.  However, though enablement might help stabilize a crisis in the short term, it's not a long-term solution.  It would be one thing if your daughter were getting treatment, making some progress in the right direction, and experiencing some slip-ups on her journey.  But it's another thing entirely if she's threatening you, acting out, refusing to work on herself, and refusing to take responsibility for her own life, while making other members of her family miserable.

Look, with BPD it's very common to have a victim mentality.  I think that's the worst aspect of BPD, because it renders her powerless over her own life.  She blames everyone else for all her problems, and she's constantly disappointed and aggrieved because of unmet expectations.  She's learned helplessness!  Even so, because you are operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt, you support her.  You give her housing, some spending money, and a fresh start, over and over again.  But by doing that, you are enabling the status quo.  Even if she's miserable, the status quo is working well enough for her.  She's learned that if she begs, pesters and threatens you enough, you'll eventually give in and give her what she wants.  But in the meantime, she's making YOU and the entire family miserable, too.  Look, a "fresh start" in a distant location doesn't change anything, because your daughter remains exactly the same.  If anything, it makes things worse, because she's farther away from the only support system she has--namely YOU.  I know your daughter probably dreams she'll be happier elsewhere, far away (the pwBPD in my life says the exact same thing).  The thing is, the problem isn't location.  The problem is your daughter, but she's also the solution.

The sad part is that your daughter will probably have to hit bottom before she decides to get some help.  SHE has to be the one to decide to get help.  She has to be the one to understand that her life is worth fighting for, and to work hard to turn her life around.  The good news is that BPD is treatable with therapy (and with medications if there are co-existing conditions like anxiety or depression).  The tough part is that she has to do some work for therapy to work, because therapy IS work.

I guess that my general advice would be to try to keep the lines of communication open, provided that you're in a good space emotionally.  If she sends a mean or threatening text, you delete it like spam, because it is spam.  I'd say, only engage with her when she is being civil.  That way she's learning that she only gets your attention when she's treating you right.  Clearly she hasn't learned that lesson yet; what she learns is that she gets attention (and money, housing or logistical support) when she's acting out.  If she's insulting you, I bet she's projecting her own self-hatred onto you, and you have to learn not to take it personally--it's BPD, not her real intent.  Having said that, if you find your daughter's texts are too distressing and are putting you on edge constantly, I'd say it's OK to take a break, to preserve your own sanity.  You could block her for a time and then re-assess in a few days.  Or maybe you decide only to look at messages from her at a prescribed time, say for 10 minutes before dinner.  That way, you feel you have more control and "ration" your exposure to your daughter's emotional content in digestible bites.  But the same rule applies:  you reply and engage only when she's texting in a civil manner.

Look, I have a pwBPD in my life who hit bottom.  She attempted suicide multiple times, each attempt more serious than the last one.  She was a mess, alienated her entire family, lost all her friends and wasn't functional in day-to-day life.  She would start altercations but then accuse others of assaulting her.  She had delusional episodes and was extremely paranoid.  She'd project ill intent onto others where none was intended.  She hated everyone and everything, especially herself.  She would bounce from living situation to living situation, trying to flee from her problems, constantly in a state of avoidance and "transition," but in transitioning much of the time, finding that she's not really living her life, and that her problems remain the same wherever she goes.

After a serial suicide attempt, she finally heard ultimatums from doctors and her family.  The doctors told her that she needed to complete the recommend intensive therapy program and treatment regime, because she had exhausted all other options already.  She could choose not to complete the recommended program, but if she ever returned to the hospital, then the only recourse was to commit her involuntarily.  She also heard an ultimatum from her family:  her father would support her 100%, provided that she did exactly what the doctors recommended.  She was free to go her own way and decline the help, but then she wouldn't get financial support from her parents.  It was her choice to decide what to do, and her family would respect whatever decision she made.  Fortunately for her, the decision was easy.  I'm happy to say that she took her therapy seriously, and though it wasn't easy and there have been setbacks, she turned her life around, and fairly quickly, too.  I think she eventually warmed to the notion of getting help from professionals, because that validated her narrative that she felt traumatized/victimized and needed some help to learn to cope with that.  On the other hand, I think that for her parents, it was a relief to focus mainly on following doctors' orders, because it alleviated pressure to come up with ways to "fix" her life, since everything we tried previously just didn't seem to work, and also felt intrusive.  For a time, the primary focus was therapy--everything else (healthy habits, housing, travel, school, work, relationships) would wait.  In other words, baby steps.  One change at a time.  The first steps were probably hardest, but once she got some momentum going, then other changes came pretty quickly.

I guess I'll wrap up by saying this isn't your fault.  I know it's so HARD dealing with BPD in the family.  It's heartbreaking, unpredictable and exhausting.  You deserve to be happy.  I think you don't have to give up on your daughter, but you can give up on the idea that you need to fix her.  Only she can do that.  She's going to do what she's going to do, but you don't have to spend your hard-earned money and all your emotional energy to enable her to do that.

I recall a time not long before our eventual blowout when my spouse briefly went to another city for some certification, life was calm and I and my preschooler relaxed.  It was so peaceful.

Then I called the police one weekend when my spouse was on a rampage...

My point is that with you bringing up your child's all-consuming parent to appease your spouse, you're reinforcing a problematic issue in your lives.  You don't have to mention her mother so much.  Just be a parent, comfort your child, soothe whatever awoke her and then just take her back to her bed and let her fall asleep.

In the final months of our marriage my ex stopped sleeping in our bed and started co-sleeping in our son's bed and locking the door too.  It was yet another sign things were getting intolerable.

Hi Thankful,

From your post I can see you are a loving, deeply caring and considerate person.  I know you want what's best for your family, and you are struggling to minimize outbursts from your loved one with BPD.  I think everyone here who lives with someone with BPD (or BPD traits) struggles with "walking on eggshells," trying to prevent or minimize outbursts.  Oftentimes we need to "pick our battles," which sometimes means doing things that are expedient rather than ideal.  It must be extremely hard for you to juggle and balance the needs of young children, while at the same time catering to the needs of your spouse.

I think you have a good read on what seems to be happening with your oldest.  You yourself said she's being parentified.  That would mean that she's expected to take on things which are well beyond her maturity level.  Parentification could mean that she's doing household tasks, such as helping younger siblings dress or eat, cleaning the home or folding laundry.  Now there's nothing wrong with being assigned chores--I'm a big believer in chores building competency, responsibility and togetherness--but they should be age-appropriate and not be so physically or emotionally burdensome that the child doesn't have time to play or feel free to be a normal, care-free kid.  By the same token, parentification can be the emotional kind, too.  That's when adults unload their emotional baggage onto their kids and expect them to listen to it, empathize, and oftentimes feel responsible!  I think topics like marital stress, fighting, financial stress, paying bills, mom's worries about school, etc. should not be something a six-year-old has to listen to, let alone worry about.  Worse, having to worry about how Mum might react to completely mundane things such as seeing a picture or who comforts her or tucks her in at night should not be a child's concern in my opinion.  I'm not saying that kids shouldn't learn to take other people's feelings into consideration--they need strong rules and firm boundaries, such as "We don't hit or bite people in this family, it's not nice."  But the rules need to be reasonable and age-appropriate.  What it sounds like you're trying to do is expect your dear daughter to walk on eggshells full-time and never be allowed to do anything without obtaining the express prior approval of her Mum first, lest her Mum have a hissy fit over every miniscule detail of her life.  I see this as parentification because the six-year-old is expected to be more mature than her own mother, and the six-year-old feels responsible for her mother's emotional well-being!  That is backwards in my humble opinion.

To date, maybe your approach has been to do everything in your power to reduce stress for your wife, in the hopes that she avoids a meltdown.  It sounds like you've been doing an awful lot, from handling your wife's business to doing more than your fair share of childcare.  Maybe bending over backwards has bought you some temporary peace in the household, which is good for the kids.  But if I were in your shoes, I think I would focus on trying to change the environment and your wife's routine, rather than expect your children to change their behavior to accommodate your wife.

The way I see things, handling the household might feel a little easier if you think in terms of stress management.  I've observed that pwBPD do not handle stress very well.  They need a lot of logistical support, reassurance and downtime.  I think that's why many people with untreated BPD have difficulties holding down a job.  Now I know there are other variables with BPD, such as emotional dysregulation, unrealistic expectations, feelings of emptiness, unstable self-image, etc., and you can't be expected to deal with those issues yourself.  But I think what you might try is to create a realistic and stable household routine, together with your spouse, that is designed to reduce stress for everyone.  In my humble opinion, having a strong routine increases predictability, and that alone reduces stress!  You might say, Look, I'm feeling stressed out, and I think you are too.  I feel like we have so much going on that we're tired and fighting a lot, we're arguing over wake times and night routines.  I think we need to re-assess and maybe cut back on non-essential obligations right now . . . and then we'll have more time to be happy together as a family.

Again, from what you've written, it sounds to me like pursuing a degree is just too much for your spouse right now.  My suggestion would be to take BABY STEPS towards getting a degree.  Maybe next semester she could try just one course.  That way, she probably wouldn't struggle as much academically.  She would be able to stay awake whenever the kids are awake, and she'd be prepared to get up at night to attend to a fussy child, if she thinks it's critical that she (and not you) take on that responsibility.  Once she demonstrates that she can handle one course, as well as her primary obligations to her family, she might be ready to add another course.  But it seems unfair to the family that because she's studying at school, she's too tired to wake up on time in the morning, she expects her spouse to do more than her fair share around the house, and she expects her children to wait for her and defer to her on everything, even when she's in bed.  That isn't balanced in my opinion.  Rather, that sounds to me like she's another kid in the family.  In a way, her behavior is childish.  I guess that's why I'm saying you need to take back some control and enforce a healthy household routine, for everyone's sake.  If your wife is peeved she's not consulted enough regarding the children, then she ought to be participating fully in the getting-up, dinnertime and bedtime routines.  If she's not participating fully, then she needs to delegate it to you (if you choose that) and not beat you up about it.

Has anyone voluntarily separated from their adult borderline child?

My 38-year-old adult daughter has BPD. She has threatened the lives of several family members, including my young grandchildren. Now she says that the threat was "reactive." My other daughter (the children's mother), my ex-husband, and my current husband all want me to end contact with her completely.

She was homeless, and I caved, and I accepted contact with her after months of repeated begging from her. I said I would help her out for one more period, paying for housing in a faraway state for six months. I did this to help give her a new start and to keep her far from us.

I have the threats in both voice and in text. We have received threats to us and threats of suicide, and some physical violence consistently over the last 24 years.

She always has an excuse, and it is always my fault that she has been victimized and she is always “reacting.” She has hit several family members as well as her former landlord. She does not have a job, nor can she keep a job. She is on SSI.

She thinks she is “autistic” and refuses to get mental health help. She just wants to live at my house, which will never be a possibility.
 
My husband says I am a detriment to her by continuing to be in touch because she refuses to get the help she needs.

My mental health is suffering greatly. She texts me more than 100 times a day, with blame, questions, pleas.

Both being in touch and the thought of breaking off all contact are heartbreaking to me
Has anyone else been in this place?

Many thanks.