I read this in another's thread, but wanted to comment in one of your threads.  I didn't want to go on a sidebar in another's topic.

It was your daughter who said "her psychologist and therapist both think that having a family session would only be further gaslighting her", right?  You didn't actually communicate with her psychologist or therapist, right?  Ponder that.

So, in reality you don't know what, if anything, the professionals discussed with her.  Those were her words, her interpretations or perhaps just her reactions to what you suggested.  And you know her perceptions are skewed away from normal.

Apologies are a funny thing because when we give them, they tend to benefit us more than the other person.  With mental illness in the mix though, there's often an actual need for the other person to hear an apology.

We all know that apologizing for something that we didn't do is counter-productive with a person suffering from BPD.  It validates the invalid in their mind and can often turn into a way to manipulate.

However, we can apologize for the other person's feelings...which are always valid.  I'm sorry if I hurt you.  I'm sorry that you felt that way.  I'm sorry you felt like I did that to harm you; I would never want that.  I'm sorry I didn't state how I felt more plainly.

There's lots to apologize for if we're being honest.

BPD is a mental illness centered around feelings.  It's safe to apologize for feelings and that's what truly matters.  The stuff being argued about?  Not so much, it's unimportant since it's more about raging in the moment and showing that something is very off.  That's why focusing on feelings and apologizing for hurt feelings is so effective.

I'm in the same situation. My daughter reached out after I asked if she'd be amenable to doing family therapy with the assessment that her psychologist and therapist both think that having a family session would only be further gaslighting her. Even though I've said I'd be willing to go a therapist of her choice because when I suggested a therapist that was unacceptable as well because the therapist I'd choose would be "on my side" and aid in the "gaslighting".

My daughter constantly requires that I "apologize" and "take responsibility" for my behavior but honestly I have no idea what kind of apology will ever suffice or what behavior I'm meant to address. I'm told I should go to therapy on my own but that she won't engage with me until I "apologize". I've said repeatedly to her that I do apologize for hurting her feelings if I have done so in the past and would like to find a path forward for both of us, but she purposely maligns that notion.

Reading this post as well as others who seem to say that their adult BPD children ask for unreasonable apologies for slights or wrongs that only they seem to know we've done and regardless of how many apologies are made, are never enough, then what is it we're meant to do?

It’s good to hear some hope in your post. Just a quick note that the board usually stays away from getting into medication or treatment specifics since none of us are clinicians. Where people here tend to be most helpful is around the relationship side of things. I’d be interested in hearing more about how the separation and the start of DBT are changing the dynamic between you two.

Hi CrimsonBlue,

Thanks for the update. It's nice to know you were brave enough to go through this and stand firm. Congratulations.

I'm sorry for the miscarriage. Stress can do that as a normal process of the body. My wife said she also had a miscarriage years before knowing me, in a previous relationship in which she was being beaten up. I can't be sure if the pregnancy part was true, though, since fabricating lies is almost a compulsion for her, and once she makes up one, she never retracts it. Though today her lies are minor, because she doesn't want to get caught.

Once my wife became afraid that she could have had a miscarriage because she felt something drop in the toilet, but it was just a blood clot or something. But blood exams are the safe and easy way to confirm or refute a pregnancy.

In regard to your feelings, try not to feel responsible for her or for what happened, and instead, blame it on the disorder.

Hi, new here, does dBPD mean diagnosed BPD? Thank you

Happy Birthday!  (May I say, I am happy for you & jealous!  I wish my daughter would acknowledge ANY holiday...!) but....than (if it is like I remember, your heart pounds in "anticipation yet worry!) I, personally, (though, I am always SEEKING advice!) think I would (whatever form of communication you both share) simply say, thank you (I always add, hope you are well and I love you) I always say, to the group, it makes me sad, that it must be a flow chart on how to speak to our children, however, such is the life of BPD....I just met with my BPD therapist, who advised me, to grasp the reality....I "grieve for the daughter I "want" and need to accept the daughter I "have"....I hope it goes the way you want

.......Happy belated birthday btw.   

Hi CGAME,

Firstly I also think that it is wonderful that your dd acknowledged your birthday..

IMO I also think that expecting a heartfelt apology from your dd is probably very unlikely from anyone who has very strong NPD traits as they feel that they are NEVER in the wrong or at fault.

Also having any open communication  requires the ability to listen to the other party and with my udd that has been impossible because of her anger.

I think that you should give it time now that you have apologised and be patient and wait for a response from your dd.

Update

Ever since I went ahead and mentioned to her about the divorce, her initial reaction was cold and it could be because my family was sitting with their family and I announced it on front of them all. I also mentioned that I am with her for any decision that she has for the baby. I was shocked to see her reaction to be so cold, I say this because her family members were trying to convince me and asking for another chance but she was stopping them to do so and in fact just asked me one thing "do you love me anymore?" to which I said "no" and she concluded the meeting.

The thing is I do love her but it felt like she wanted me to say this so she could feel like she did not participate in this "pulling the plug". Anyway, that is how I read it.

Since that day, I was every other day checking up on her for the baby's health and her's but unfortunately our baby got miscarried. This is what was told to me. When I asked for the doctor's prescription for any medicine or Ultra Sound report, she denied that she had any and said that she directly communicated with the doctor over phone. I am able to believe it but my family is very skeptical about it. Anyway, this still was shocking to me and I am sure the pain that she must have been going through would have been devastating. We are both grieving this loss but my decision to not continue the marriage is still solid.

Feelings Update:

I have been in super guilt cycles and many times thought about if I was reacting supportively to those fights or not. I have been doubting my decision many times. When she contacted me after our baby's loss she was really begging for me to come back. It was very tough to say no to her. I literally told her that I love her but I cannot live with her. And if she really loves me then as the last act of love, let me go. This is also how I see it because I really do love her but the memories of when we were living together that felt like survival mode to me guides me for my future. Its just a matter of choosing myself vs the relationship. The kind of person I am, even saying this line feels selfish. My friends and family call it self - preservation and also say that by choosing this relationship I am abandoning my own self. The feeling as I remember is exactly that though, when we lived together. I was really just living my life according to how she wanted and how I could keep the waters calm. Still the decision of choosing myself regardless of what people say or the fancy words of 'preservation' and 'choosing my self' feel a bit selfish. More so, like I am a villain in this story. But my body also responds terrified when I think of going back. So yea, here I am.