Hi everyone.  It’s been two long, grueling years since my last confession.

I’ve been thinking and unpacking and ruminating about what’s transpired in the last two years–or even two decades–and I really just wanted a place to put what I’ve learned.  And what I’ve discovered, what’s really at the heart of it for me, is this:

I don’t have low self esteem; I have no self esteem.  It’s not that I hate myself.  I just don’t consider myself at all.  I have become so good at attuning to others that I have completely erased myself from the equation.  Other people provide the gravity that keeps me tethered, and I find the most powerful gravity source is romantic connection.

I really don’t want to rail on exes and dispense with some missive about how bad pwBPD are and how they’ve ruined my life.  I’m actually hoping to speak to the rest of us, “the others”, and I hope that my story might help someone else put into words what they’ve been feeling.  Or at least not feel so alone and confused.

I’ll spare you my backstory; you can read about it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356517.msg13200402#msg13200402
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356642.msg13201350#msg13201350
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356552.msg13200666#msg13200666

  But my story is pretty similar to everyone else’s: I was married to a woman for about 13 years who showed many of the signs of BPD in addition to being depressed, distant, detached and an active alcoholic for most of our marriage.  The relationship was marked by wild mood swings, baseless accusations, suicide threats and attempts, manipulation, blame shifting, gaslighting, and the overall attitude that none of that really happened, she didn’t do it, it wasn’t her fault and it didn’t need to be acknowledged or addressed.

Two years ago (today, in fact) was the final straw.  She put her hands on me during an argument and I just knew it was time.  It was minor, no injury or anything, but I knew there was no turning back from this.  I left the house about five weeks later and filed for divorce.

I left the relationship feeling good.  I mean, this wasn’t what I wanted, but I felt positive and hopeful.  I felt free.  I had my own place, the kids were with me half the time.  We were adjusting and coping and there was reason to believe that the future would be bright.  My ex-wife didn’t implode as I had feared.  That’s not to say she’s coped well, because she hasn’t.  But I feared a devastating relapse and eventual suicide or other major crisis.  That hasn’t happened.

And I felt comfortable moving on romantically.  I wasn’t pursuing it, but I was open to it.  From my vantage point the failure of my marriage wasn’t on me.  I wasn’t the one doing the “bad things”, I had been in therapy for years, I was posting and reading here, I was confiding in friends, I’m not an alcoholic or drug addict.  And I knew in my heart that I had tried really really hard to make the marriage work.  Naturally I concluded:

The marriage failed because of her, not me.  I’ve done my learning and growing.  I’m good.

There were a couple dates here and there, arranged through mutual friends.  I kept the dates but wasn’t interested in pursuing these people further.  And I was relieved.  I thought: “See? Your antenna is up.  Your discernment is high.  You’re not falling for the first woman with a pulse.  You’re good!”

A few months later I met (GF) and was immediately compelled.  There was a certain je ne sais quoi about her.  An undefinable quality.  An energy, a magnetism.  Something about her made me want to know more.  We really clicked, really seemed to like and enjoy each other and things went from there.

Mind you I had done a full work-up on GF before I let my guard down.  And I can honestly say that she was the polar opposite of my ex-wife, everything from her mannerisms, attitude, personality, even her appearance.   I looked for the warning signs and saw none.  I checked the closet for skeletons and didn’t see any.  “Ok.  This one checks out.  Full speed ahead.”

How wrong I was, how quickly I knew I was wrong and, most importantly:

How willing I was to override my instincts in the name of love and connection.

I’ll spare you the story but it went basically like this: we had just started sleeping with each other, and we clicked in the bedroom too. The next evening we were together, with plans on just staying in for a low-energy evening.  Suddenly she came out of the bathroom and said “I have to go.  I have to be with my cats.  I have to be in my own bed,” and just left.  I walked her to her car and even then, just a few weeks in, I knew: “This is a trap.  This moment, right now, is where you get stuck.  Say ‘good night’, give her a peck on the cheek, and let her go.”

We had plans to meet the next day that she blew off.  Stood me up, just like in the movies.  I finally connected with her later that day and she said “Yea, sorry.  I just needed some ‘me time’ and I didn’t want to talk.”  Moment #2: “Let her go.  Do not chase her.  Let this go.  This is the moment that will trap you.”  But I couldn’t let it go.  I had already fallen victim to my dilemma.  My own trap, the one I’ve been trying to outrun since I was a child:

This is because she’s not seeing you properly.  You must try harder.  You must prove yourself.

And I did try harder.  I stayed in it.  And without knowing it–or despite the fact that deep down I did know it–I locked myself into the dance: 

she will move away to control her fear of being seen, and I will move closer to control my fear of disappearing.

Because that’s just it, right?  I have spent my entire fvcking adult life being everyone’s firefighter.  Attuning to them, anticipating their needs, serving them, putting them first.  It’s all I know.  It’s how I buy my right to exist. It’s the only evidence I have that proves I am real. So when GF suddenly ghosts and wants ‘me time’ I don’t have that angel on my shoulder.  The one who talks about loving myself first, plenty of fish in the sea, and all of that. 

I came up with no real, coherent sense of self.  I was a collection of accomplishments, titles, roles, failures, two ex-wives, two children.  I adopted this idea that I am only as good as what everyone sees in me.  And I never really got the impression that people truly saw ME.  They just saw a uniform, or a title, or a role, or some act of selflessness that made THEM feel good, left me hoping for some reciprocity and acceptance and, ultimately, left me feeling used, depleted and unseen.  I was so desperate to finally be seen, accepted and kept (especially by a romantic partner) that the thought of abandoning that possibility in the name of self-protection is so foreign to me that it might as well not even be in English.

And who am I when I’m not being reflected in the eyes of others? I have no clue.  No idea.  I don’t know who I am.  In the literal sense.  I just don’t.  I only know utility, endurance and competence.  So that’s what I’ve been trying to sell the world for 45 years.  I will love you so well, so competently, that I will become indispensable in your life.  You will change.  You will get better  You will see that I am the only constant.  I did not abandon you.  Then I am allowed to exist.  Then I become immortal.

That’s it for right now.  There’s a lot more.  So much more in terms of this relationship, what I’ve learned, moments that left me a sobbing mess.  Some beautiful memories, some not so nice ones, and a desperate need to believe that there’s a better future for me somewhere.

I’ll try and repost soon.  Thank you for reading. 

Our 13 year old daughter has been completely normal up until 5 months ago.  Then she started worrying about school and started talking about feeling suicidal.  My sense from her is that the attention she received from teachers and counselors around the SI gave her the most amazing feeling that she's ever felt.  And it also helped her to get accommodations at school - and ultimately get out of school.  And that feeling is what she's been trying to get ever since.   

She's been to 2 PHP's and both times she started acquiring symptoms from the other kids in the program.  The last PHP (for OCD) she was in for 3 days and reported that her depression was gone.  But over the weekend after PHP started she created a suicidal plan with time/date, acquired the method (drinking cleaning solution), and wrote a suicide note.  She talked to a friend about this and that's how we ended up finding out about it. 

So the PHP said they could no longer deal with her and so residential was the only option.  So she is now in residential treatment for depression/ocd.

What we seem to be learning is that what she has been getting treatment for (depression/OCD) is not working because she's not being treated for what she actually has.  Those symptoms (depression/OCD)  just seem to have been acquired from others.  And those symptoms are what has allowed her to get what she's really looking for - which is feeling seen and being soothed. 

So, she's been in residential treatment for almost 3 weeks and it's paradise for her.  She gets to go out to Culvers, go to the bookstore, go on long walks with staff where she gets attention.  She's already talked to us about not wanting to come home because it's so great to be there.  And she's not really up for learning skills.  She's getting what she wants, so I completely understand why she wouldn't want to work on skills.  I can't imagine a world where she comes home and doesn't figure out how to go back to residential treatment within 1-2 weeks.  She's the kid of 2 therapists - so she's really proficient at knowing what to say to get her back into residential. 

Here are some questions:
1.  Have others been through this?  Of normal treatment causing the Suicidal behaviors to escalate? 
2.  We are thinking of moving her to a DBT residential program - which we hope would help to motivate her to learn skills for dealing with anxiety and obsessive thoughts.  Any thoughts on this?  The nice thing (theoretically) about DBT is that SI doesn't trump everything and wouldn't be reinforced in the same way as it is in the current program (and at at school)
3.  Anyone have experience with specific DBT residential programs?  I've found 2 I think might work - Nashotah Center (through Rogers Behavioral Health) and 3East DBT Program (through Mclean). 
4.  Any other advice? 

Thanks for any help you all can provide.

Non-critical information:
1.  Due to the sudden onset of these behaviors we have gone through an extensive process of ruling out almost all physical health causes of the behaviors.  The only 2 left are Cushings (which initial tests seem to eliminate) and PANDAS (she had a strep test and it was negative). 
2.  She was born at 24 weeks (1 lb 5 oz) and spent 100 days in the NICU.  She met all of the normal milestones (with slight delays). 
3.  She did have 3 surgeries from 18 mo. - 2.5 years to deal with kidney stones likely caused by the caffeine and other drugs doctors used to help her survive.  The whole process was quite traumatic for her.  She did 2 rounds of trauma therapy to deal with this (at age 11 and 12).  Therapy seemed to help. 

When I was trying to figure out how things have gotten so bad and continue getting worse - here are the 4 foundational problems we're struggling with:

1.  Being suicidal and sick works well to get her number 1 motivator - others caring and soothing her. Suicidal behavior works well to facilitate avoidance (school being difficult).  It’s working for her. 

2.  She’s not being treated for her accurate diagnosis.  The people helping are well intentioned but are treating her for conditions she does not have (e.g. depression, OCD). 

3.  Suicidal behaviors bypass normal limits and get results.  Suicidal behaviors get an incredibly powerful response from people and programs.  For instance, they put limits on her ability to attend programs and precludes her from dealing with the underlying problems by prioritizing dealing with suicidal behavior.     

4.  There are very few consequences to her behavior.  Most of those consequences are positive.  She experiences very little aversion around her behavior. 

Thanks again you all.
 
 

I WAS going to pursue, however, EACH time I get "close" it always pans out....there ARE programs to "grandparents" rights; I don't want to give any false hope; however, for MY case, the Mom (my case is a bit odd, only one of the grandkids are legally related to me, though, I love them all, I don't have much legal ground) is easily overwhelmed, she just had a new baby; her last threat lasted one day....I pray this all works out; I think BPD is a BEAST, however, it is just the worst when kids are used as pawns

Hello and welcome to the family!  As a dad of a BPD in her mid-20's, I get your side and your husband's side completely.

I've been guilty of bailing my daughter out over and over again, to the point where I was struggling financially.  When I finally cut her off completely a few yeas ago, she figured out a way to pay all of her bills within 24 hours.  And that's when I realized how stupid I had been for such a long time.

I can't tell you anything that you don't already know.  There's a fine line between helping and enabling.  But it's your husband's business and if he wants to pull money out to "save the kid", I do get it.  It's not a very smart move though and it probably won't be a one-time expense.

Thank you CC43! My stepdaughter - who is 20 - is BPD and I am experiencing so much of what you shared about.  Your post was very helpful for me.

She has now made a false abuse allegation against my husband. We got a call from a social worker. Fortunately, she was a reasonable social worker who could see right away that this was baseless. But my husband now doesn't want to be in the same room with my daughter. That means we can't see our grandchildren. I think it is best to go no contact for a while, but I don't know how we can eventually resume contact with our grandchildren after this.

My BPD stepdaughter (age 20) is paranoid (she admits this and shares her paranoia) and her anxiety has been so high that she has trouble functioning at times.  She dropped out of college right before the fall semester to go live with her long distance boyfriend.  She had a big plan for what was next for her but has made different choices and is struggling. My husband is in denial about the BPD, even though she was diagnosed with it.  He has come up with a plan to rescue her - found a place for her to live - it's a co-op apartment complex that requires a substantial financial "buy-in". He (we) are paying the buy in fee and he is going to pay for the last three months of rent for her and her boyfriend's apartment so that they can move to this co-op where monthly rent is cheap.  We are in a financial crises ourselves and are struggling to get back on track with our bills. Yet, he is funding about $10,000 to move her because he is convinced that if does this one more thing, she will be okay - her anxiety, depression, and paranoia will go away.  I have expressed my concerns about us spending this money that we don't have and that if we keep bailing her out, she won't learn how to be an adult or manage her life.  He deflects any conversation about this and is proceeding with spending the money.  I know that I am powerless over this - I have said what I need to.  He has made his decision.  He has his own business so the money comes from that and I have no control or input on how money is allocated in the business.  But it does take money away from us paying bills and getting out of our financial mess.

Hi there Hope,

I'm glad your name includes Hope, as I do think there's hope for your daughter, because she's young.  If she gets the right treatment, she can turn her life around before BPD behaviors derail her entire life.  My adult BPD stepdaughter decided to get the help she desperately needed, and though she still stuggles, her life looks much better than it did at 23, which was probably the worst year.

I have some theories about early adulthood being the worst.  First off, your dear daughter is bumping up against an adult's world, but she lacks the emotional skills to handle it, and she's increasingly distressed.  She feels inferior, incompetent and jealous, feelings which are exacerbated by excessive consumption of social media.  Worse, she's frightened of the future, as she can't figure out who she is or what she wants, let alone how to do the work to get what she wants.  She's so afraid of the future that she spends most of her time thinking about the past, both as a distraction and an excuse for her current dysfunction.  My anecdotal observation is that the more obsessive a pwBPD is about the ancient past, the more frightened she is about the future.  She can't look forwards because she's stuck looking backwards.  It's like she's trying to drive down the highway of adulthood looking at the rearview mirror, and she's bound to have a wreck, if she hasn't had a few already.

I bet your daughter is blaming you for a terrible childhood, for ruining her life and for not doing enough for her.  She might start out sounding like she's not delusional, but as she gets riled up, I bet she turns mean, calling you a terrible parent and accusing you of all sorts of transgressions, most which are highly distorted or patently false.  Is she stuck in the past, dredging up the same old complaints, over and over again?  No matter how much you apologize, or you try to put things in perspective, it's never enough, is it?  In fact, once you start validating her, in an attempt to get her to calm down, she takes that as an invitation to try to get you to confess to things that aren't even true, right?  Once she's riled up, she seems to spin out of control, and all logic gets thrown out the window.  She doesn't know how to calm herself down.  She has tantrums over seemingly nothing.  My adult BPD stepdaughter would do the same thing when she wasn't getting the right treatment.

Your BPD daughter is doing these mental gymnastics in order to shift the blame for her dysfunction onto someone else, mostly YOU.  But she's not really mad at you for what she's accusing you of, even if that is what she THINKS she's mad about.  I bet what's really bugging her is fear about the future.  She knows she's an adult in age, but she still feels like a dependent adolescent, and it's killing her.  She doesn't really know who she is (she lacks a stable identity), and she doesn't have stable relationships (friends, co-workers, family, romantic partner).  Without the high school routine that was forced upon her, she feels rudderless.  Is she having trouble in college, and does she have a hard time finding (or keeping) a job?  Has she lost her friends?  She is discovering that she's not functioning well as an adult, and that makes her SCARED as well as inferior.  "Everyone else" seems to have an easy time making friends, forming romantic relationships, finishing college and/or working, whereas she completely falls apart.  This induces in her a deep SHAME.

Because of BPD, your daughter can't take setbacks in stride.  She doesn't have appreciation for context or perspective--failing a class isn't the end of the world; having a fight with a roommate can happen, but apologizing goes a long way; everyone has to start at the bottom in the work world, getting fired isn't life-ending, there are a million other jobs out there.  Her feelings of inferiority and dependency are super-sized and prevent her from taking responsibility for her life.  Rather than take actions to make a life for herself, she regresses in AVOIDANCE, while expecting others to make her life FOR her.  In the meantime, what does she do?  She dredges up ancient history from childhood and blames her dysfunction on that--terrible/unsupportive/abusive family members, they are the ones who make her dysfunctional.  This thought pattern makes her MAD, because she doesn't have what she wants NOW.  When she sees you, she sees an opportunity to lash out and unleash all this anger and frustration onto you.  If you're up for listening to her, you become her punching bag.  This is all just to avoid acting like an adult and taking responsibility for her life and her decisions.  That is simply too scary.  She RESENTS you because she still NEEDS you desperately, and it's killing her inside.

On top of that, generally speaking, her expectations are totally unreasonable and unrealistic.  I think this is rooted in adolescent or childish thinking patters.  She's impatient.  She's demanding.  She expects adults to over-function for her.  She still expects to be the center of attention at all times.  She expects too much devotion from friends.  She wants to make decisions, but if something goes wrong, she expects you to face the consequences and "rescue" her, because you "owe" her.  Now, when she was a kid, this was normal.  But now that she's an adult, she's having trouble adjusting her expectations, and at the same time, her childish expectations simply aren't being met.  She still probably expects that you continue to pay most or all of her living expenses.  She's resistant to doing adult administrative tasks, and she's frightened because she doesn't necessarily have the know-how, either.  She's afraid to ask for help, say from a friend or an employer, because she'd be "exposed" for her lack of knowledge, for the fraud she feels she is.  She wasn't really prepared to do autonomous, self-guided study in college, or to figure out how to apply for jobs, or even how to accept coaching from a supervisor.  Any "criticism" would be taken personally, and she'd completely fall apart.  I bet she hasn't really embraced the notion that she's responsible for herself now, because she's probably blaming you, full-time.  Let me guess, your daughter says she suffers from anxiety?  My bet is that's because she feels incompetent, inferior and scared.  She's so afraid of a failing and a little stress that she gives up before she even tries, and to cope, she's lashing out at you.  Does this sound familiar?  If it does, it's because I've lived though it.

I guess some takeaways are to try not to take your daughter's outbursts personally, because BPD is NOT YOUR FAULT.  You cannot control your daughter's feelings, and you are not responsible for them either.  You control your feelings, and if you're stressed out and worried sick, I think you need to prioritize your own self-care, whatever that looks like for you.  If you need a break, take it.  If you need therapy, get it.  Your job as parent now isn't to be a provider/full-time nurturer anymore--your kid is an adult now.  Your role transitions to being a trusted adviser/cheerleader, as well as a good role model too.  I think you should model for your daughter what a healthy adult's life looks like, and that includes taking care of yourself first and foremost.  You take care of your finances, do a good job, keep a nice home and enjoy hobbies and friends.  You have strong boundaries and don't engage with verbal/written attacks, and you don't react to tantrums.  When your daughter goes on an emotional rollercoaster, you don't ride beside her, but you wait for her patiently at the exit.  You work on remaining calm, with the hopes that it will rub off on your daughter.  How does that sound?

Hi @SuperDaddy

Yes, that’s correct. Now, she isn’t diagnosed and I wasn’t even aware of bpd until 18 months or so after the discard, but everything in your post lines up. A lot of her behaviour lines up.

In her world, pretty much everyone at some point has been the victim of her poisonous tongue, but only in my direction.
She has not been horrible about our kids though, but the paragraph in blue about the children blaming the non abusive parent hits close to home as it would generally be me, the laid back parent, that would get grief from them, that couldn’t reason with them, yet they somehow would listen to her.

As for my wife, for years she actively pointed the finger at three people. Me her husband (in a relationship for 27 years, known each other nearly 40 years) her sister (that would regularly side with me during my wife’s unsubstantiated outbursts towards me), and her business partner (that she has worked with 30+ years and was one of her closest friends)

The first thing her sister said to me after we split up was “haven’t you stopped to think how much better off you are without her, she treated you…. no she treated us both…. like sh!t”
and “with her enough is never enough”

As for her business partner, she is about 15 years older than my wife. Therefore the vitriol my wife would spew about her was directed at me. That was until the discard.

After the discard, which I have explained on here, my sister in law stopped working for her because she was going off the rails and my SIL thought the business might collapse, since then my wife doesn’t really visit her or talk to her much.

Her business partner went radio silent on me, as has a few friends that either work for my wife or close friends of ours because no doubt I’d been painted black. However, after a few months her business partner started messaging me, telling me that my wife was being really horrible towards her.
As the break up was still raw some of this spilled over into arguments my wife and I were having which then led to me being blocked by her business partner because I had a go at my wife about her behaviour, which my wife in turn took out on her.

About a year later her business partner contacted me asking if I would do some work on her house. She had been stitched up by her boyfriend, who turned out to have been using several aliases and had been in prison and the national press for defrauding women out of hundreds of thousands of pounds, and she had to sell her house. I did the work but only charged her £20 for paint and gave her free labour. I was later told my wife hated the fact I did this for her.

Several months later, which brings things up fairly recently to date, I received more messages from the business partner saying my wife was yet again being horrible, belittling and nasty towards her, and directing it at her having to sell her house and downsize, mocking her.

Which led me to a kind of epiphany. I am no longer the outlet for her anger, her outbursts, because she walked out on me.
My SIL is no longer an outlet either, as she stopped working for her and doesn’t hear from my wife so much because in my wife’s words her sister is angry at her “because I had everything she wanted and I threw it all away”

So my wife is now under the roof of her boyfriends house, where he is paying for everything. He was her supplying drug dealer and drinking buddy. He has bought her a car. Throw in limerance and all that bollocks, so I doubt she is getting that dysregulated around him yet, although I have been told they argue a lot by his ex wife.

So therefore I can see her business partner as the path of least resistance. She has become the new outlet for her nastiness, because she is tied to my wife through the business, and it would probably suit my wife if she upped and left anyway.
I explained this the last time we communicated, about a month ago, and told her to just grey rock my wife and just say “ok then” or “whatever” whenever my wife has a moment.

I don’t know how things have gone since then, but saw my wife a couple of days ago and her tone of voice just sounds angry, she doesn’t sound like a happy person. This sound like BPD to you??

Hi @LadieBug and welcome to the BPD family !

So he is upset with your mom just because she won't sign the house over to you? You said that would mean transferring it to both of you? But you aren't married yet, are you? Did he pay her for the house, or is it a donation, as in an anticipated inheritance?

I'm asking because I am suspicious about his motives.

Anyway, I think the house must remain in your mother's name, for your safety. Signing off the papers would only make things worse, and your mother seems to be wise enough to see it.