As an aside, I recall one time years before we got divorced when I mentioned that we were fighting a lot and that I was keeping track of it, BPDxw got really upset by that and kept focusing on it and demanding that I stop.  and for a long time after that, would bring up the fact that I had been keeping a journal and on demand to know if I was still doing it.  In fact, I noticed that if she picked a fight over something, she would completely forget about whatever she had ostensibly been mad about in the first place, and focus on the fact that I was keeping a journal of our fights. 

Eventually I just started lying to her and saying I stopped keeping a journal and was focused on making our marriage better, out of hopes she would stop picking fights over it so much (or picking fights in general).  This was futile of course, since her whole M.O. was to just pick fights. 

I wondered if this extreme concern about journaling was driven by simple paranoia on her end, or whether it revealed that she was intentionally trying to control the relationship by picking fights, and was concerned that by tracking it, it was exposing her?  I don't know!  I suppose it could've been both. 

In the end, her focus on the journaling undermined whatever point she was trying to make, and underlined to me that her goal was simply to fight: the fighting was the end in and of itself, and the basis for a fight didn't actually matter to her.  I started journaling fights to try to understand what the problem was, whether there was something in common with them, whether our marriage was as miserable as it felt to me, and I succeeded, but not in the way I expected. 

I'd echo what Mutt said (which it sounds like you're doing) in your update: you don't have to do everything in one big step.  Break things into smaller steps and think them through.  Hopefully this also "feels good."  When I was married to BPDxw and miserable, thinking of how I'd get my own place, what I'd do, what I'd buy, how I'd arrange things, etc. was a relief and gave me some hope for the future. 


For me, creating a simple journal of how often we'd fight, or not be on speaking terms (silent treatment), and what the fights were about helped me see how lousy our relationship was, and yet how secure she felt treating me like that.  She would insist (quite angrily, which was ironic) that we did not fight a lot, or fight "too much" and that "all couples fight" and was apparently okay with the dynamic.  When I went back and looked at months I had been telling myself "were better" or "things had been better" I was personally surprised to see that even in those months we were either fighting or not talking close to half the time.  I'm talking about entire weeks.  And the fights were always about nonsense: one month it was because I got a bunch of work emails in the middle of the day on my phone and this made her think I was having an affair.  Another month, she was angry I didn't send "enough" pictures of her to my mom because I knew my mom hated her and this showed I was closer to my mom than my wife.  Ugh. 

I realized from all this I was more of an optimist, or maybe better at putting my head in the sand than I realized.  When I'd think back and remember what I was thinking in the midst of being on the receiving end of some unhinged screamfest from her, it was "I need to get out of this, this is miserable, no one should treat me like this, I truly despise her for doing this to me for years and want out." 

And so I finally drew my line in the sand, and after the next blow up (again, over nothing), I refused to take some degree of responsibility for it, and when she threatened divorce because of that, I said "okay" and followed my plan of moving out and filing for divorce. 

Hi again,

My inclination would be not to ask for digital communication.  I think that would have the effect of minimizing, maybe even "normalizing," what your wife did.  With her emotional thinking patterns, she could take your outreach as either an admission of guilt, or a recognition that things weren't as dangerous and toxic as they really were.

Look, the pwBPD in my life attempted suicide multiple times.  Each time was more serious than the last.  Her dad, operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt, didn't want to have to take her to the hospital AGAIN.  Why?  She doesn't like the hospital, she thinks she's fine, she thinks that other people are to blame, and she wants to resume her "normal" life as soon as possible.  And he couldn't bear to admit that his precious daughter was not OK.  But by NOT going to the hospital, her feedback loop is:  she gets what she wants by threatening violence, the threats become "normalized" and seemingly "acceptable" to her family, and she convinces herself that her family is to blame for her outburst.  This extremely distorted thinking pattern brought on by out-of-control emotions is typical of BPD.  And since the loved ones around her are bending over backwards to "protect" her from the natural consequences of her own behaviors, she's learning the OPPOSITE of what she should be learning.  She should be learning that violence and threats of violence are verbotten.  She should be learning that her life is too precious to put it in jeopardy.  She should be learning that actions have natural consequences.  She should be learning that suicide threats and attempts need to come off the table, and stay off.  She should be learning healthier ways to manage her emotions and resolve conflicts.  She needs to learn to play fair.

But in her world, her partners/parents keep on contorting the "rules of the game."  Of course they mean well, and everything is in the name of protecting her, in the name of LOVE.  But by shielding her from natural consequences, she isn't living in the "real world," she's living in a distorted, unhealthy world where abuse of others is tolerated, maybe even incentivized.  You ask, how is she incentivized?  She might get money, attention, concessions, your begging for forgiveness.  She might get confirmation of the victim narrative she's weaving.  She might get to experience the drama she craves.  The pwBPD in my life basically got a luxury apartment all to herself, an extended vacation with no responsibilities, free time to travel and endless spending money.  Those sort of perverse incentives need to stop, if you want to have some seblance of a healthy life.

Again, I think the situation isn't necessarily the worst that could happen.  Maybe with time, the notion will start to sink in that your wife needs some therapy to work through her traumas and/or chaotic emotions.  Alas, she might need to feel uncomfortable to make that realization, because she needs to reflect and see that she has to do some work to improve her life, relationships and coping skills.  I think it can be done.  But if you enable the status quo (letting her get away with threats of violence), my guess is that she'll only up the ante in the future.  Take it from me, I had to live with an emotional terrorist in my home for YEARS.  Things do not get better without treatment, they get worse.  Your wife's behavior got her a RESTRAINING ORDER, that is serious.  Please don't try to minimize it by blaming yourself for "provoking" her, and trying to reach out to assure her it's OK, because it's not in my opinion.

Look, I think you need to be strong so that your wife gets the help she desperately needs.  Going easy on her might make you feel better, but it's not helping her, it's enabling her in my humble opinion.  If you want to feel better, I think you should focus on self-care right now.  Try to reconnect with family and friends, if you have neglected them because your wife has been needy.  I think if you do that, you might come out of the FOG and start to see things with clarity.

Just my two cents.  I wish you all the best.

Hi all,

Today I feel the want to more deeply look at how I participated in my last relationship and stayed so long, even though it was intense beyond my capabilities. How do y'all think about the way your own personal histories, tendencies, and wants in a relationship wove together with a pwBPD?

Here are some I'm thinking about for myself. I wonder if any of them resonate with y'all:

  - Many people on here talk about being a caretaking type, and I am definitely that. I prided myself on being able to
do a "difficult relationship", which I think got in the way of me seeing that I really wasn't as able as I thought.

  - I was the quiet, calm child in my family's system, who took care of herself. I ended up on the sidelines of family
conflicts, and perversely wanted to be included in the yelling and screaming, just to feel a part of things still.

  - I hadn't been in a relationship longer than 1.5 years before I met my pwBPD. As our relationship continued, I figured that it was difficult because I just hadn't done a longer one before. I found it really hard to get insight into what would be considered "healthy" or "normal". Also, there's so much societal conditioning telling us that a romantic partnership is necessary and key. All of that meant that I  pushed past doubts and pain to keep staying. Of course, I also really wanted to believe my partner when she promised that things would calm down.

  - I value the interesting people that I get to meet in this life. My wife was and is one of them. I have a hard time
saying goodbye to these precious connections, in the event they need to end. I never understand it when people say that you need to live for yourself. I get that I need to take care of myself, but live just for myself? Seems disconnected.

  - I let romance drive a lot of forward motion in my life. I don't necessarily value more traditional milestones, like a successful career, for example, which for me means that I'm more interested in feeling the movement of life, the mystery and chance of it. On the negative end, this manifests as a lack of direction, which partly led me to allowing myself to be subsumed in an intense relationship. Whoops.

  - I have depression, and having another person around can make life more bearable.

Okay, that's all for now! Would love to hear y'alls reflections on this topic.

Hey! Kind of you to check in, thank you. It helps.

It's been about a week since I decided to fully leave the relationship, so I'm waffling back and forth everyday between relief and despair.

I'm still going to yoga, like 3 times a week, and it really helps. Even though I don't have my dear friends and family out here in Germany, I've built connections with some friendly people, so I'm getting out and about. I definitely feel lonely, but that makes sense - I'm trying to view it as a temporary state, and a tolerable one. It might also be really good for me to look at why I allow romantic love to be such a driver of my life's path & energies ;).

I got a temporary sublet in a calm, shared apartment, with a big room to myself. I'm proud of my resilience. I decided to stay here at least through the end of May because I don't want to jump ship impulsively. Even though Germany may not be my place in the long run, there could be new possibilities that come from living here for a bit, and I don't want to shut them out without some experimentation and time. I have faith that I can find at least a part-time job, with all the restaurants around here expanding their staff for the summer. Cross your fingers for me.

Oh, and I agree to not send money!  Let her see the consequences of her actions.

I’m sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately, I have been through something similar. In my situation, I had to call the police because of a DV incident and a mandatory restraining order was put in place. I jumped in immediately, going to the first court date to ask for a modification to digital communications. Then, I essentially, saved my H, by hiring a lawyer to help his lawyer get the best possible outcome, as what he was facing truly would have ruined his life…and our family. I moved quick to modify the restraining order, trying to modify 1 step every court date he had. While I know I did what I did in good conscience, my H has only thanked me once for essentially saving his life, and that was when his lawyer told him to thank me before he took the plea deal that I had arranged for him. There have been a handful of other times where he has said that he knows how horrible he has been to me and the kids, but that’s it!  I decided that I wanted to speak at his plea, and I wrote a letter telling him about how his actions had affected me and the kids, I had ended up rewriting the letter as my lawyer said that he thought this letter probably wouldn’t help our cause in getting him the best possible outcome, but when I gave the original letter to my H months later, he told me that I am a liar and just looking for attention!  He almost had my life in his hands and all I cared about was his well being, his future!  I saved his life and he doesn’t care! I’m still the bad guy, I’m still the one who gets the brunt of all of his outbursts.  Though I know others get it at times as well.  It almost feels like it was believed, by both my h and I, that I owed it to him., to save him!  His cycles have continued, in reality, everything has continued except the physical violence.
I don’t know what I would advise, but I would not advise to drop everything because “you feel bad for her”. A protection order was granted for a reason. I don’t know your wife, but the feeling that I get from my H is he knows he can treat me like complete **** and I will still be there saving his life, bending over backwards for him. Yes, he has a mental illness which is pretty debilitating. But, I need to realize that even though he is mentally ill, I still deserve to be treated well…and honestly well is beyond what I am even looking for now a days…I am at the level of looking for him to say thank you maybe once every 25 things that I do for him, etc!  
For me, the future of the protection order depends on a couple of things…do you have kids together? Do YOU want to communicate with her?  For us, and I was told this was standard, the judge will only modify POs with slow step changes, digital usually being the first step. Maybe try that and see how it goes, if it goes south fast, you can always turn your phone off and go back to the court with the nasty texts, etc to get that reinstated. !  After that I would advise that you only make forward progression with her when you are ready…it’s amazing how the charm comes out when it needs to!  What I would truly suggest that you do during this time is to find you again! Get out of the house, see friends, do activities you love, feel what true happiness feels like again. And if and when you do decide to let her slowly back into your life, make sure you keep your happiness, happiness comes from within and it’s nobody’s business to take that from someone else!

Hi Love and Pain,

I'm sorry you've had it so rough lately.  Your screen name itself reveals the conflicting feelings, especially during this crisis.

Look, for a restraining order to be issued, the situation had to be serious.  I think both you and your partner would benefit from a "time out" to reflect.  Typically restraining orders are temporary.  I'd say, take the time to settle your nerves, find some support and try to get re-acquainted with your "normal" self.

I'd also advise absolutely no contact with your partner.  She needs to understand the seriousness of her behavior, and the natural consequences of it.  If you try to communicate with her and/or send her money, it seems to me like you're violating the purpose of the restraining order, and you're sending conflicting messages.

Maybe reaching a crisis point isn't the worst thing, if it means your wife gets the help that she needs, and you get the separation you need to get out of the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  I know it's really hard.

In such a case (a pistol threat), it is totally understandable that you called police. However, if the problem was sorted and she does not have access to it anymore, and you are not under threat, then what's the purpose of the restraining order? Is it because that was the only way to get her to move out? If yes, then I completely understand you.

If that's the situation, then I think it is a good idea to modify the restraining order to allow digital communication (given that your attorney grants it).

She came at me with a pistol. At the moment, I felt it was going to be suicide in front of me or a murder suicide. 

Thinking back now, she probably just wanted to threaten me that she was going to kill herself while in the heat of the moment.  Any way you slice it it was completely wrong.  None-the-less, I do not believe I am at risk of violence by her.