ChoosingPeace, this therapist isn't her "personal" therapist. She has one of those that she found on the same platform. This therapist was only supposed to be a "family therapist", but she's nonetheless taken appointments with my daughter seperate from me, and has stayed online with me at times that my daughter logged off of a session. I don't really want to make this about the therapist, although I really seen or heard anything from her that has impressed me, especially the not even attempting to lay down or enforce ground rules for communication. She's definitely not what my daughter or I need though, and I have no problem telling her that. BPD is a complex mental health disorder and it needs to be addressed by a provider who fully understands it and can competently treat it.

Hi MrManager ,

I have checked your previous messages. You didn't express much about your concerns regarding child custody. I see you said your ex-wife "has threatened a few times to take the kid and move out of state." But I think the courts will need objective evidence that your kid feels safe with you and not with his other mom. So unless you have evidence of child abuse, I think it will all be about the socio-psychological evaluation that some professional does with each member of both families. Otherwise, it should be balanced. But if your kid is already attending school, you can use the school to do all permutations so that you don't have to meet your ex (perhaps only on school vacations). That means one day you leave at school and she gets to school, and another day it is vice versa.

Now that I saw Pook075's response, I'll open a parenthesis.

I don't think you can call for police and just say that your children don't feel safe with him in the house, because such a statement doesn't indicate that a crime has occurred or is about to occur. Calling police should really be only the last resort. If you can avoid the conflict by leaving the house, that's preferred.

My wife just left our rented house today. I am trying to make sure she feels loved while leaving, because I want to promote the best possible outcome. I have been asking for her to leave for more than one year, and she refused until I was really about to leave myself.

What does that say about the BPD partner? It says that their nonsensical arguments and behavior only happen within certain bounds, while they still think there is room to behave like that. But once they hit a wall, they begin to be reasonable and act rationally. For my wife, the wall was the fear of being removed from our rented place by the police, who would be called by the landlord after I ended the renting contract.

So yes, you should be ready to call the police if needed and do it the hard way, but unless you are at risk of a life-threatening situation, you should first try to make your husband run out of options (hit a wall) so he can cooperate with some sort of separation (something temporary at least). I say that because cooperation is always preferred, even more so because you don't want to break up the relationship.

I was told it was unethical to do family therapy with an established therapist for one of the parties. The therapist will have understandably have a natural bias towards their own client. If this was your daughter’s therapist doing the “family therapy” that’s a huge red flag.

This book was helpful in that I now understand what I’m dealing with and helping me see my situation for what it is. Basically, I will continue to walk on eggshells as long I have a relationship with someone who has BPD. It helped me to realize I don’t want to live like this. I actually want to stop walking on eggshells! So I’m going no contact until a healthy, honest, and loving relationship is truly possible.

I don't think I have anything extra to add, but I feel you!

I have been a long time lurker on this board, and posted under another account I can't find. My husband is a recovering alcoholic (35+ years), depression, self diagnosed autism ( I believe this) and when he hears about BPD says that is him. He has periods of good times and bad times. Got frustrated trying to get diagnosed in system and that's it, so why try. Angry when frustrated. Example from this morning. We had some light snow last night, it is sunny today, so I cleaned up the driveway and sidewalk. We usually split this chore, but it was so little I did it so the sun would get to the blacktop. He is angry because he was looking forward to doing his part. I apologized. Now he is muttering to himself (just loud enough for me to hear) "I guess I just got up a half hour too late." "She didn't even ask me, why should I expect anything else." etc. Then I heard him say he woke up feeling stupid. This is his code for depressed. These are never directed at me, so not part of a conversation. Later he will accuse me of ignoring him and not talking to him.  I hang around doing stuff in case he might actually talk to me about it, but it is more likely to be a rant. How to handle this pattern?

Prior to yesterday's appointment, I went online and signed up for a 1 on 1 session with this therapist because I know she continues to see my daughter. That appointment is this Thursday. I think she already knows why I left the session because I briefly spoke to her about my daughter's behavior during sessions previously. All she had to say on the matter was that she never had to lay down rules before.......okay, but she clearly does in our situation, but hasn't? This women is just some random therapist who my daughter hooked up with after attending an IOP for continuing care because she was available during a time slot that we both knew would continue to work once my daughter starting attending cosmetology school. There's nothing in her background that indicates that she's even BPD "informed", and it's been proven time and time again that nothing can get accomplished in sessions exclusively due to my daughter's words and behavior. For instance, during a time period that my daughter and I weren't really having any major issues, the session started out fine, but when I brought up the subject of my daughter getting a part time job and wanted to discuss a timeline by which she'd do that or I would stop payment on her internet bill (this was after she moved into the apartment but before she was attending school), all hell broke loose, and then she (my daughter) decided to end the call. It's always the same thing. She doesn't want to be held accountable for anything, big or small.

I plan on just letting the therapist know that I won't be attending any more family sessions as nothing productive takes place and it isn't good for my daughter or me to continue to engage in this way. I'm also going to remind her that my daughter has a legitimate BPD diagnosis that was a very long time coming with numerous doctors, Psychologists, and therapists all reaching the same conclusion over a 5 year period--- a diagnosis that my daughter doesn't want to face. I'll also let her know that the therapy she really needs is DBT (as I think should be very clear by her ongoing behavior in family therapy sessions) and that I've become aware that DBT is now being used to help expectant mothers mitigate challenges with hormones, and I really think it would be in my daughter's best interest if she'd (the therapist) encourage her to start practicing DBT, even if only for that reason. I can't control how this therapist decides to proceed with my daughter, but I do know if she's not engaging with my daughter appropriately given her diagnosis that she can't help her and could potentially make matters worse.

Rolling things back about a year, after my daughter was removed from my house following about the 4th inpatient hospital stay she was pink-slipped into by law enforcement, I had put up a boundary that I ended up dropping, where I told her that I'd communicate with her only when a therapist was present, and only when she engaged appropriately. This was just as she was entering a 3 month online IOP (in her apartment) where they were supposedly doing DBT. I say "supposedly", because many programs incorporate aspects of DBT but it's not really a comprehensive  "adherent" program that operates as Marsha Linehan dictates it should. Perhaps if I would have stuck to that boundary, my daughter and I would at least be able to engage in a healthy way with a therapist in between.... maybe not.

Today I decided to discontinue sessions with my current (personal) therapist and pivot over to a DBT practice that truly specializes in BPD and runs an adherent DBT program as well as offers individual therapy. It's a practice that my daughter was let go from about 4 years ago because she wouldn't do any DBT "homework" and wasn't complying with any aspect of the program. My current therapist is nice, and a Phd, but I'm really not getting what I need from her. I want to work with someone who is in the trenches when it comes to BPD, knows all the skills backwards and forwards, and can help me navigate the challenges I continue to face with my daughter in an informed way. So I called and they recommended that I work with a particular therapist who works with parents of pwBPD. It was explained to me that this BPD parent coaching is sort of like family therapy without having another family member there, which sounds like a good fit--- I hadn't even mentioned my inability to have family sessions with my daughter. The practice doesn't take insurance and the sessions aren't inexpensive but I'm starting to feel a little better better knowing that I'll have a solid resource for individual therapy/counsel that I really need.

Hi lisaea1523 ,

Yes, at this point, I'm afraid that living together will just make things worse. You both need to have your time and space. The behaviors you described are way too far from acceptable. You need to bring peace for yourself and for the kids. After you split and go for shared custody, maybe he can be a good father, if he wants, but not in the current setting with you around.

All advice given by PeteWitsend is pretty good. However, I think things are not so difficult.

You are in the best situation you could be: you are living in a rented house. That makes things much easier. If the rental agreement is a month-to-month payment contract, you can end the lease unilaterally with 30-day notice. Then everyone will be forced out, and then you'll move to another place. In case he wants to assume the lease by himself, and he notifies the landlord about that, then it's fine. Good luck to him with that.

For the kids, it will be shared custody. If you think he could get aggressive with your decision, then try to install some security cameras in your place before you start, or at least use your cell phone in your pocket to record the conversations. Because you may have to use them later.

Hopefully, you won't need any lawyer or help with domestic violence. If you both still love each other, then there is a chance that you may reach an agreement. But in any case you must be prepared for the worst.

For all the legal advice, if you are lost, you can chat with artificial intelligence first, such as ChatGPT, just to get some clarity. You'll be surprised with their knowledge. That won't replace a lawyer in any way, and you must double-check any statement that's critical for your decision, but it will save you a lot of time anyway.

I'm in a similar situation because I live in a rented apartment, and I was moving out because of my wife's crazy behavior, but then she finally agreed to leave herself. If we succeed in maintaining a healthy relationship while not living together, then that could be a wake-up call for her to stop the crazy stuff and start doing DBT. The best outcome would be that I could bring her back after many months or a few years. But I'm prepared for the worst, which in my case would be the end of the relationship and the deterioration of her mental health due to her own choices. I think that being prepared for the worst is a healthy mentality.

You may also consider the possibility of moving out to a flat/hotel that you can just pay per use. I mean paying per day or per month, without the need to sign a long-term contract. Meanwhile, he would have time to decide whether to assume the lease by himself or leave the house. But don't tell him you are going to a temporary place because then he will just wait for you to return.

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you're in this position and while I can't relate completely (my BPD wife abruptly left me), I have been through this many times with my BPD daughter.

You are responsible for you and the kids.  He is currently in the way of that and you're living in a nightmare.  He is also responsible for himself, the kids, etc but he's not taking that responsibility seriously.  The only conclusion is that he must leave.

You mentioned that you don't want to break up.  Fine.  But that's not the point here and it's not something you should be arguing over.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He stands in the way of that and he must leave.  If he feels the relationship is over because you're throwing him out, that's his decision and he's allowed to make it.  That can't change your viewpoints though because you're responsible for three kids that he's becoming increasingly hostile towards.

I know this isn't easy advice to hear.  But I think it's the advice that you know in your heart is true and you want to hear others say it.  So that's what I'm doing- there are zero other options here.  You are responsible for you and the kids.  He must leave.

So let's roleplay this out.  I'm your husband.

You tell me to leave.  I say I will eventually.  How do you reply?

Whatever you say, I use my disordered thinking to spin this back at you.  You've never loved me, you're ruining everything, you only care about the kids, etc.  What do you say to that?

Here's where these arguments always spin out of control.  He's going to fight emotionally while you're just trying to say the obvious- he can't be there anymore.  The kids are scared and you're beyond frustrated.  So if this is the path the conversation goes, you dial 9-1-1 and say your children don't feel safe with him in the house.

The police will arrive and ask him to leave.  He probably will, and the relationship will be all but over.  He will be furious as well.  But at least this starts a paper trail and he realizes that you're not playing.  Maybe he leaves you...which is fine at this point because that's the whole goal here.  Just to get him to physically leave.  If you want to try to salvage things later, that's still on the table.

Again, I know this is ugly.  I hate writing it just as much as you hate reading it.  But I'll say it one more time, you're responsible for you and the three kids.  Something must change and you're the only one who can change it.