I don't think either of the perspectives are right or wrong. FD- your response is about the legal aspect of separation and divorce, and it is spot on.

Mine is from growing up with my BPD mother making threats she didn't follow through on and the times I acted on them, or believed them, and felt like I fell into the "reaction" pit she intended them to be. The divorce threats weren't specific to me but they were threats that she didn't act on.

Some threats were real but they were more like the impulsive ones. To get a separation/divorce means making a plan and acting on it- consuting a lawyer, getting papers together. If what she wanted was a quicker emotional reaction, this wouldn't work. It might happen if someone seriously pursues it.

However it is always good to be informed about the process and any pittfalls should that ever happen, for either spouse. It's true that one can't predict how any one relationship will proceed.

As you can see here in this thread, you can receive helpful ideas and comments from a variety of perspectives.  In this case, I approached it from the experience of someone who had experienced a separation, the ex didn't want to reconcile and it led to a divorce and separate parenting.  I guess I'm a facts and logic sort of guy.  The others approached it from a different direction, that often the other spouse doesn't really want what was verbalized in the moment, especially if that's not an uncommon event.

It's difficult to predict how each family's discord will turn out, so from the variety of perspectives and ideas generally we can determine how to proceed although also knowing that our eventual outcomes can take a while to become evident.

Collectively, we all seek Closure, it's something we crave from deep within ourselves that we also crave from the other.  Yet the BPD traits are so pervasive in the other that receiving meaningful closure is unlikely and can even prolong the pain.  So what to do?  Many here found that we had to Gift ourselves Closure rather than expecting it from the other.

Hi Innerpeace,

To achieve inner peace, I'd recommend trying a positive internal dialogue, even if it seems hard at first, maybe something like this:

I assume the best in others at first--sharing a vacation photo is completely normal.  It looks like the family is having a nice vacation, and that's great, I'm happy for them.  Actually, I'm relieved I wasn't included, because spending time in close quarters like that with two pwBPD is bound to be too stressful for me.  I can only handle them in very small doses, in controlled environments, and I wouldn't want to use up so much of my precious vacation time worrying about how I'm going to handle the inevitable BPD tension.  I'm just glad the kids got to see that vacation spot, which I loved as a kid too.  As for me, I've got my own exciting vacation plans lined up, a fun and relaxing trip, with people I actually enjoy spending time with, which is way better for me anyway.  I'm so glad I emerged from all that BPD dysfunction I grew up with and created a peaceful and fulfilling life for me.  Sure, I wish it hadn't been so tough for me growing up, but that background makes me appreciate all the wonderful things in my life right now all the more.

My response to the photo?  A heart or a thumbs up, and I mean it, too.

Then don't react to her threats if she doesn't do more than that. Also know that the BPD behavior is part of the situation. Without her doing the work in therapy, and staying with it- this is who she is. You can do your part in how to manage your end of it.

It's not possible to control her choices and if she wanted to leave and follow through on that- this would be her work to do too. Don't do it for her.

Your task then is to find your own peace within this situation. Get counseling for your own support. As CC43 suggested- carve out your time with the kids. Outings with my father are good memories for me.

If you want control of the finances- you will need to do that. My BPD mother's spending was out of control and difficult to manage.

Some great replies and insights into our situation. As always, thank you

I don't really want to get separated from my wife. Through stops and restarts, we have built a Life here. We have a good home to live in. Gardens and tree houses for the kids to play in. I have it pretty good, personally. I have really good kids and a great job.

Pure guilt-tripping, try not to let it get to you and make you engage as this is exactly what he wants - to keep going any seeds of self-doubt he thinks you may have. I'm sure you're now aware that no matter who breaks up with who and for whatever reasons, he's going to try and make the whole thing your fault and he's done nothing to deserve it.  Stay strong.

Be prepared for things like this to happen until he moves out.. and probably the guilt-tripping and emotional swings will intensify the nearer it gets to his leaving day.

Have you decided on a course of action after he leaves? ie are you going full no-contact 'Never want to see or hear from him again' or would you still like some contact in the future? Needs careful thinking about - you might still want to be friends but a BPD will see that as 'still interested' A totally clean break is often the best, especially in view of the fact that your relationship has only been for a couple of years but would you be able to stand by it and not be dragged back into re-engagement?

I'd be very surprised if he leaves and make no attempt to stay in your life, even if only on a seemingly friendly basis. This is where BPD's can be exceptionally scheming and premeditated as their illness prevents them ever taking 'No' for an answer or providing any sort of closure to a relationship, even if they eventually start seeing someone new  Hopefully, things will go smoothly and you can start getting your life back on track again.

Hi there,

I was planning to reply, but Notwendy wrote what I was thinking.

Just because your wife says things, it doesn't mean she'll actually follow through.  She might make threats and act passive-aggressively in the moment, to blow off steam and unleash some of her pent-up stress and frustration.  I'd say, if you want to avoid conflict, what you could do is gray rock.  That's shorthand for not reacting to your wife's threats, but instead staying as calm and boring as a gray rock.  She leaves the family online chat?  Fine.  She needs a time out anyway!  She might believe she's "punishing" you with her absence, and fantisizing about "hurting" you "in public" with a farewell post, but my guess is that she can't stand to see cheerful family exchanges amongst your relatives, as it makes her feel alienated (from familial bliss) and insanely jealous.  In fact, my guess is if you have an adverse reaction to her threats, you'll "reward" her threats with extra attention, and she'll commence a nuclear arms race with progressively more dire threats.  You see, if she's really MAD, she will threaten mutually assured destruction.  So my first instinct would be to try to avoid getting "sucked into" a nuclear war, at least at first.  How?  By remaining calm, and not displaying your arsenal of weapons.

Anyway, if you are planning separation or divorce, you need to get your own counsel, but I'd keep your plans absolutely confidential until you're ready.  I guess I wouldn't recommend mediation, because pwBPD are not known for being reasonable and negotiating in good faith.

I also agree with Notwendy regarding the kids, which are probably tweens or teens if you've been married for two decades.  If you want to eat with them, then you could make them a snack, arrange a pizza-and-movie night, take them out for frozen yogurt after their basketball game or arrange a mini-picnic in the park with sub sandwiches, whatever--just don't purposely "sabotage" what Mom does.  Mom could participate or not, her choice.  My guess is she won't, and you could frame it as giving her a needed break.  My sense is that your kids would relish some one-on-one time with Dad anyway.  Something as simple as a mug of hot cocoa with extra marshmallows could be nice.

It was meant to be hurtful, perhaps to establish herself as being the favorite or the one in the in crowd of your family.

It's middle school social dynamics. You wouldn't consider this, so it's hard to process.

My BPD mother was exclusonary with her connections. What suprised me was that other adults in the family went along with it. It caused estrangement between family member, between hers and me.

While I her family and I have reconciled, there's still the gap and the distance, and their family dynamics. We aren't included in their family events and I don't include them in mine. At some level, I still feel sad and excluded. Maybe they feel that way too when it comes to my family but it's also possible they may not feel it.

Family dynamics are what they are. While my BPD mother's behaviors were driven by her BPD, what shocked me was that her family, non disordered people, went along with it. That may be a factor in your feelings about the trip. Your sister might be the one to exclude you but your other family members were there too. How could this be OK with them? Why didn't they stand up for you? I had the same questions. What we don't know is what the pwBPD may have said to them, or if they went along to keep the peace according to the family pattern.

The trip you have the picture of was probably not all lovely and peaceful, but it still hurts at some level. I may not have wanted to attend my mother's family's events but being excluded still feels sad.

I am sorry for the loss of your nephew.

I think your feelings of guilt and responsibility are "normal" considering the family dynamic and the role you were cast into (as the fixer, the stable one). What isn't "normal" is the family dynamic and your being cast into that role in the first place.

You did not choose the worst possible time to go LC. You chose this at a point where you knew it was necessary to do this to protect your own emotional well being. It was the right time for you.

That your family is struggling isn't your fault. You didn't cause it, and the repair is beyond anything you are able to do. It isn't all your parents' fault either but the family dynamics are an extension of theirs. They are the parents in this situation. You kids are all adults not but as children, you did not set the dynamics. As adults, you make your own choices now.

You aren't being uncaring. You are considering yourself in this care as well. These are boundaries.

When can you fall apart? You can, but your family isn't capable of being a support to you. My situation was similar- if my own mother was struggling with BPD- there wasn't the ability for her to manage being supportive. However, a counselor, spouse, friends- they can be of support and it's OK to reach out for support.