Thank you so much. I'm thankful to find this community but sorry your story is similar to mine. What really gets me is that I've allowed myself to stay in this situation so long even though the cycle repeats. I grew up pretty normally and never fought with anyone. Her yelling just froze me the first time and I started to leave then, but her tears and what seemed like remorse pulled me back in. At this point, it feels like she's exploiting my kindness and love for her.

I've asked for couples therapy, and she's always declined. Now I'm reading that it doesn't work with them anyway.

I've said I need her to be nicer to me. How sad is that, to have to ask your partner?

Biggest fight yet just happened to be all in writing, which opened my eyes to just how mean she is and how she spiraled from one thing to everything without taking any accountability herself.

After some (very peaceful) time apart, she now wants to talk by phone. I'm prepared to be as emotionless as possible to avoid arguing. I have my short list of talking points and a statement to use if I need to step away. Any other advice?

Hi again,

I'm glad to help put some things in perspective, even if you probably know most of the themes already. 

I highlighted above a key word in you post, which is "resentful."  That's a sign that you have gone above and beyond to help your dear daughter, but she's probably squandering your help, treating you badly because of it, or both.  It's also a hint that you are probably trying harder to turn your daughter's life around than she is.  Does that sound about right?  I'd say, that even though your daughter is extremely hampered by her intense emotions and negative thinking, that doesn't give her a free pass to treat you badly.  And it doesn't give her an excuse to give up on her life, either.  If you give her money which she sqanders when she's not working on herself, you're basically rewarding and perpetuating dysfunction, while depleting your own resources.  Your daughter might mistakenly think that if she had your money, things would get better for her, and she rationalizes it by blaming you--she feels entitled to your money as compensation for her horrible upbringing.  But money won't cure her, and you know it.  Unfortunately, you can't buy your daughter's love, and you can't buy a cure for BPD either.  Trust me on this.

There's a fine line between support and enablement, and that's a line that many parents here struggle in establishing.  Oftentimes it can seem like financial support is getting in the way, such as by perpetuating negative daily habits (e.g. substance use disorder, long-term unemployment, not adhering to a budget).  But other times, financial support can help your pwBPD get on a path towards making a better life for herself.  Sometimes financial support manages parents' feelings of fear, obligation and guilt (the "FOG"), because a parent can't bear to see their kid living "on the streets."  I guess my litmus test is:  Is the pwBPD generally doing what she's supposed to be doing, i.e. heading in the right direction, and the extra financial support helps lift her up to get to a better place?  Conversely, is the financial support enabling her to quit her life and hate everyone in the process?

My general advice regarding financial support is not to destroy your finances in the vain attempt to "save" your daughter.  If you are working long-term so that she doesn't have to, then I'd say, you have to stop sending her money.  I'd also say, don't send her any money that you can't afford.  Sacrificing yourself will NOT save your daughter.  Don't let her dysfunction take you down with her.  Since you have another daughter and grandchildren, you can think of things this way:  if you redirect most of your retirement resources to your dysfunctional BPD daughter, then who is going to help you when your money runs out?  You will probably become a financial burden to your non-BPD daughter, and you wouldn't want to do that.  So give your non-BPD daughter and your grandkids that gift, of not becoming financially dependent on them.  In the process, you avoid creating family-wide resentments.  Because if you spend most of your retirement money on your BPD daughter, you'd be "rewarding" dysfunction, while penalizing the daughter who has been nothing but good to you.

Look, just because your daughter has BPD, it doesn't mean she's incapable of learning to budget.  If you constantly rescue her from her poor decisions, then she'll never learn how the real financial world works.  If she doesn't learn now, then what will she do when you're gone?  One approach you could use is to ensure your daughter has skin in the game.  If she needs a car, you could help with a car payment, as long as your daughter pays for a meaningful part of it.  Ditto with housing or anything, really.  Another approach is to slow down the parental ATM, and wean your daughter off it.  If your daughter asks for money for the emergency du jour, your default response is, "Let me think about it / let me talk with my spouse first."  You buy yourself some time, at least a week.  Give your daughter some time and space to figure out how to manage her finances!  And it's perfectly OK to say No, or No, I don't have any money to spare, or No, I have to wait until next month when I get Social Security.  Now, upon hearing No, your daughter is likely to have a conniption fit and hurl insults your way.  Just know that that is called an "extintion burst," an amping up of the lashing-out routine that previously worked for your daughter.

If you can't bear to see your grandson suffer, and if your BPD daugher is squandering the money that you do send her, then one suggestion would be to provide support in kind, rather than in cash.  That might look like having food sent directly to her home.  Or maybe offering free babysitting (which I imagine you were providing in the past), and preparing meals for your grandson in person, with provisions you bring with you.  That way, at least you know your money is being spent the way you intended.

As for encouraging your dear daughter to get therapy, I think I'd stay away from that topic for now.  All your daughter will hear is that you don't love her, that you think something's wrong with her, or that you think she's nuts, when she's convinced that YOU are the problem.  My guess is that since you've supported her so much over the years, she's convinced that YOU are ruining her life, and that she has nothing to do with it.  That narrative is actually key to her identity.  She's clinging to the victim mentality like her life depends on it, and in a perverse way, it probably does . . . because if she's not the poor, traumatized kid, then who is she really?  In other words, your daughter isn't "ready" for therapy.  Alas, she probably won't be "ready" until she hits bottom, when therapy is the only remaining option to make her life better.  For as long as she has you around, she'll blame you for everything, while you finance her lifestyle.  Though she's miserable, she's not miserable enough to change the status quo, because the status quo is "working" for her.

If you pull back for a while, my guess is your daughter will try to find someone else to take care of her--a boyfriend, maybe another family member.  My guess is that finding a "replacement caregiver" is increasingly hard for your daughter, because she's getting older, and she has a special-needs kid in tow.  But when that fails, she'll be back.  I don't see this as being too pessimistic, but just realistic, if your daughter isn't getting therapy.

Just my two cents.  Hope that perspective helps.

Thank you for the advice.
I have the support and the therapist. It definitely helps! But, it's still a lot to work through.
As I have mentioned, I blocked her number and removed all connection via social media etc. The only way she can reach me is via email. Over the years, she is typically the one to block me. I have tried to stay away from playing this game with her, so I typically don't block her. Rather, I just wait for her to come around and eventually she will reach out and we will move on as if nothing happened.
I am a bit stuck right now as to what to do next. On one hand, I see the benefit of staying no-contact. On the other, it is nervous making not knowing where her head is at right now. We have gone through this so many times. Typically it takes a few days and she will reach out in one way or another. I haven't heard a thing from her in over four days. While this isn't totally out of the norm, it isn't the typical pattern.
There are things we need to figure out. I am in a tough spot right now because we moved out of our place after she took a new job in another state. My plan was to stay with her until I found a new place closer to where I work. Now I am staying with family in another state. But, I need to get back to work soon and don't have a place to live. That is my top priority right now.
I still have things at her place that I will eventually need. So, at some point, I know I will need to contact her. I am not sure if I should do that sooner or later. Part of me wants to get it over and done with and figure things out from there. That way I really don't have a reason to go back to her apartment. But, I also feel like it may make sense to just stay away right now.

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry we're meeting under these circumstances, but at least you're among friends now that understand your plight.  Your story is also my story, so many here just 'get it'.

You're asking a very complicated question that's at the heart of BPD- does it just keep getting worse?

If things are left unchecked and you both just keep doing what you're doing, then the answer is 'yes' 99% of the time.  That's how a BPDs mind works though and how they hang onto trauma.  Their mind is like an attorney who's building a landmark case in a very important trial...only they don't use any sort of logic in arriving to their conclusions.  Everything is emotional and blown out of proportion, and it somehow ties to something that happened a month ago (or 10 years ago).

Their thought process can be like --> he bought apples from the store  --> I choked on an apple in 6th grade and he knows it!  --> He bought those apples to make fun of me -->  This is proof he's never cared about me!  --> He needs to feel my wrath for being that cold-hearted and abusive!

Does it make any sense at all?  Not to us, no.  But to a BPD, their thoughts go in circular cycles like this whenever they're disordered and this toxic thought process can play out over days.  Why does that matter?  Because if she's going through this now, then you make up in a few days, all those disordered thoughts don't disappear.  Instead, they're stored for later evidence and she'll use them whenever it's convenient.

Can you get past this?  Yes, absolutely.  You can rebuild trust and communicate in a different way, so those thoughts never have a chance to become dominant.  To be honest though, most walk away before ever getting that far...it's just too hard.

I hope that helps!

I shared the earlier post and response with my older daughter and my dad and 2nd mom. They are my main support group and also doing their own grieving over this with their sister and granddaughter respectively. My older daughter who has been walking this with me, was blown away by the response and accuracy to our situation and her sisters behavior

Your last sentence about taking care of my self and being prepared for when she does come to me, likely for help..  this is one of my fears- that it will be in some sort of a hard situation financially or otherwise. She’s all in her own except for a guy she has been seeing awhile that she visits for a few days at a time.as he is hours away.  I just wonder how long that will last as her relationships always fall apart.
Anyway I feel the need for some input on helping her financially.  The thought of it makes me feel resentful but then another side of me knows how sick  she is etc.
and, we are also retirees on a budget. Our savings is needed for our future.
There was great generosity with her in her teen and young adult years, including coming back to live with us a couple of times for several months.
I feel like I might find some peace if I have more input on this kind of decision.

Around here we truly understand the tendency or weakness to fall back into past patterns.  That's why it is often mentioned here that we do truly need all the support we can get.  Left to our own devices we tend to lapse back into old habits and patterns.  It's often called a three legged stool, the minimal number of support legs needed to sit on a stable stool...

• trusted friends and family
• local counselor or therapist
• peer support such as here

Since it seems you're finally at a threshold decision, though with a risk of relapsing, you need a fourth leg to that metaphorical stool.  An experienced lawyer is vital to assist you to unwind the marriage with the least legal and financial damage.  Be sure to emphasize to the lawyer that the home environment has degenerated to the point that your spouse has started making allegations and now called the police.  (BTW - an allegation of "harassment" is a legal term taken very seriously by the courts, so beware.)

Hi, first time posting here. We haven't officially ended it, but we've had such a turbulent relationship with many near-breakups that I still don't understand, and now we're at our worst after a two-week break from a fight that began from nothing, in my eyes at least. She exploded and dumped all her complaints on me because she read into a harmless text while we were apart for a weekend. I'm used to her grumpy moods and her impulsive travel and excitement. I'm used to her fantasizing about dream houses in other states for a brand-new start. She has an extreme fear of abandonment. But this time she said such mean and hurtful things about me personally, and I don't know if I can get past it. Is it true it will just keep getting worse?

Thank you for taking the time and responding to my post. I really appreciate it !
No. We don't have children together. I have two kids from a previous marriage. As you can imagine, this is a huge challenge for her. We don't own a home together. She has had 5 different jobs over the past 7 years. It's a bit complicated, but we have spent a number of years having two separate places but spending most of our time together. For the past 3 years we have lived in the same home but we were renting. More recently, she got a new job and is now renting a place in different town. My income is what supports us for the most part. 
When things started to get bad early in our relationship, I spent a lot of time educating myself on the disorder. Surprisingly, she was very open with me early on. In fact, she came right out and told me about her diagnosis not long after we met. Looking back, I find this strange because I don't think she has ever shared this with anyone since I have met her.
As you know, it's not easy. I think most people that know me would consider me a patient and understanding person. But, there are certainly times where I have had enough and haven't handled situations in the best way. This is especially true when she threatens my safety.
I know how to respond when she is experiencing strong emotions etc. And typically I handle these situations well. So much of what I have learned is spot on when it comes to her behavior. But, with her, I feel like there is more to it. Maybe it's more typical than I know, but she is incredibly critical of everyone. And this is especially true when it comes to me. If I say or do something she doesn't agree with, it's a guaranteed argument. And we aren't talking about major issues. We are talking about what I suggest having for dinner. That's all it takes. If I so much as use a tone that is perceived as disagreement, she will lose it on me. I still remember her saying to me only a few days after we met "you will find we will get along just fine as long as you agree with me." At the time I thought she was joking. But, now I know just how serious she was.
I think you (ForeverDad) hit the nail on the head when it comes to accepting reality. Logically, I accepted reality years ago. But, my heart is having a really hard time letting go. I cling to the good times and what I imagine our life could be. But, I am starting to seriously question if that is possible. If I am being honest with myself - I don't think it is.
I am going through it right now. I recognize there is a strongly established trauma bond that is going to take some time to get over. I have spent the last 8 years on pins and needles. I know I need to heal and I know I can't do that if I am in contact with her. So far, she has been quiet, but I don't think it will last. I am hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.
Again, thank you !
 
 
 
 

I too am asking whether you have children together.  Why?  Children can give a disordered spouse immense leverage.

Typically I would say, Please don't have children until you are confident your spouse is well on the way to substantive recovery.  Reading your brief summary makes me feel even more strongly that you don't gift her that control over your future... it would be devastating for for not only you but especially for any children from the marriage.

That you spouse hasn't improved over the years is a severe lesson for you to accept... that it is not going to get better.  If you return...

The general pattern of BPD on a person with such traits is that it worsens over time.  Not even "But I love her..." is powerful enough to overcome the disordered perceptions and behavior.

By most reports here...

• more years with a disordered spouse does not reverse the devastating consequences of that close relationship.
• Sometimes... if you're very lucky... an experienced therapist can do a balancing act between gaining trust and guiding a patient toward a measure of recovery.

Why weren't you able to aid your spouse to better perceptions and more positive objectivity?  It's not your fault.  Rather, it's the close proximity of the closest of relationships - spouse and family - that makes it so difficult for the person with BPD traits (pwBPD) to get past the years of emotional baggage of the relationship.  BPD is a disorder of intense emotional dysregulation.

You simply can't fix her.  She would have to truly want to fix herself.  Compare it to taking your spouse on a boat ride and she keeps jumping into the water and you keep jumping in, risking your life and safety to try to save her, but she repeatedly keeps leaping overboard.  At some point you have to accept the grief of losing a troubled relationship.  The other isn't changing for the better, so positive change is up to you.

I and many others here were once in your shoes.  At some point we had to accept the reality that what we wanted so much just wasn't possible.  Two decades ago... My then-spouse made many unfounded allegations against me when we were nearing a huge crisis similar to your current crisis, into separation, into a divorce and even beyond.  Cautious professionals (police, court officials, children's services, etc) barely stepped in, often reluctantly.  Although every allegation was unfounded (false) the most they would venture was to state the allegations were "unsubstantiated" (without any documentation) and so they basically remained neutral and somewhat passive defenders of the truth.

Should you return?  I guess you can sense my perspective.  The real question is whether you have the determination to accept reality and are finally ready to listen to yourself...  Can you accept reality in your head and give your heart time to regain equilibrium and catch up later?

Hi Toph and welcome to the family...officially!  I'm really glad this site has helped you in the past and hopefully we can be more helpful in a two-way dialogue.  It got me through quite a lot as well when things were at their worst.

First, a few questions.  Eight years together.  Any kids?  Are you a homeowner?  Give us a basic idea of the family dynamic, who works, etc.

Next, I could have written your story when I broke things off with my ex.  I felt like I was invisible, that I didn't matter, until I didn't do something my wife expected.  Then I was punished.  The sad part was, I couldn't see it though, I didn't recognize the cycles and I didn't even understand that it was an abusive relationship.  I figured all couples were like that...I was clueless.  So you're light-years ahead of me from that aspect.

My situation was unique though in that I had a BPD daughter with my BPD ex-wife.  So I was reading the books and learning about ending conflicts, standing firm on boundaries, etc while also always leading with love and compassion.  The second part of that sentence is key- it's not being kind when they're kind and tough when they're tough.  That leads to war.  It's about understanding that they're sick, that they have unimaginably bad days, and how we react will untimately decide the outcome.

Your path forward is incredibly simple.  Choose your own mental health first at this time.  Be kind to her and try to have productive conversations about what you need, and truly listen to her as she tries to explain what she needs.  She might not be able to put it into words because she's sick- but you know what emotions look like in someone sad, scared, angry, etc.  Soothe those emotions to make her feel understood, and that alone works wonders. 

Meanwhile, do not argue over anything.  If things get heated, be the adult in the room and step away gracefully.  Tell her that you love her and you don't want to argue, then stand by that.

Mainly though, this must be about you and allowing yourself to heal.  You'll see things after two weeks of separation that you can't see today.  That's your body normalizing once again and processing everything that's happened.  Focus on eating well, getting in some exercise, and dedicate a little time to hobbies or friends.  Maybe even consider counseling for yourself.  All these things will help you mentally heal and that's crucial.  The better your headspace, the less you'll be drawn into arguments over who let the dog out or who was supposed to pick up shampoo last week.

One last thing- there's no good way to ask anyone to consider therapy.  I just did with you because I understand the situation you're in and what it did to my mental health when I was there.  You can look at my words logically and see that yeah, maybe it makes sense.  But for your wife, she's only going to see the unsiad implication- that she's crazy and you hate her.  That's because BPDs think emotionally when they're in distress; logic all but turns off for them and they're ready to fight.

I wish you luck, my friend.  Please ask all the hard questions you can think of and we'll do our best to answer from our knowledge and experiences.  If you just need to rant a bit, we understand that too.  Just let us know how we can help!