Hello!

It's been a long time since my last check-in. I've gone NC with my uBPD mom, which started last August. It's been a very good change for me, though not without grief, shame and fear of the future. I have a family event coming up in support of my brother. I don't talk to him often, but the event is significant enough for him that my instinct is to support him by going. Most of my siblings will likely go, including my mom. Do I go and ignore her? Do I go, give her a quick hug (pretend like everything is fine in that quick moment) and then ignore her the rest of the time? I do not want the nature of our relationship to change. I do not want to address why I went NC. Do I decide not to go and support my brother from afar to avoid her? The thought of being in her presence at all fills me with severe dread and anxiety. Though I am the only sibling who has gone NC, my brother will likely understand why I would not want to go, though he may be a bit hurt. I am just thinking about all the future events whereby I will have to navigate this same scenario, and it feels impossible.

What have others done in this situation? Thank you for any thoughts you have 

Hello and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry that you're going through this and so many others here have the same story. 

For me, it was my BPD ex-wife leaving me and turning my non-BPD daughter against me in the process.  Luckily, we rekindled our relationship a few years later, but it completely broke me when I couldn't see my grandchild due to my ex's words and actions.  It's a terrible pain and it was very difficult to overcome.

For your situation, why does this have to be an either/or type of scenario?  Couldn't your mom have a relationship with your daughter while you don't?  That may seem too complicated today, but hopefully things will work themselves out in time. 

Or do you live with your mother?  Maybe that's why it's so tough.

In any case, you must do what's best for you and your mental health.  While the goal should be a relationship with your daughter and your grandson, there has to be healthy boundaries in place so you're not accepting abuse or being the eternal rescuer.  Your mom has to accept that as well- mom can do whatever mom wants to do, but she also has to respect you while doing it.

It's so tough because we want to love, provide, and rescue our kids.  But with BPD, that love can quickly turn into enablement, manipulation, and abuse.  Hopefully you're learning not to take it so personally- this is not a "you problem" as much as it is a mental health problem and disordered thinking.

BPDs always have a favorite person (or a small group of favorite people).  They see them as perfect people who never do any wrong, and they completely believe that...until they do something wrong.  Everyone makes mistakes and nobody is perfect.  Eventually, the BPD will realize that their favorite person is not who they thought they were (again, because nobody is perfect) and over time, they will turn on them.  At some point, they become a horrible person who is out to hurt them, and they never do anything right.

BPDs deal in absolutes so much more than the average person.  Someone is all good or all bad.  They're always kind or always mean.  They always do this, but never do that.  The list goes on and none of this is sound thinking because always/never isn't real.

Now, here's where you come in.  If you're in the "always bad" category, then you were likely once in the "always good" category before that and one of her favorite people.  Something changed due to mental illness, just like it always changes.  And since she always has to have favorite people, the relatives she used to hate are suddenly seen as good and friend-worthy.  This will continue until another shift happens- maybe she gets mad at the cousin or grandma. 

Then all of a sudden, she needs someone to talk bad to about grandma and she tries to reconnect with you.  If you're receptive, then maybe you're back to being "all good" while grandma is an evil bully.  This cycle continues throughout a BPDs life.

Thank YOU!  That was very powerful and helpful information and I am going to take it to heart!  I have zero doubt my mother LOVES her (that is a good word for it) RESCUER role!

Hi karmakat23

Iam 5 years estranged from my udd and my 3 grandchildren. My mother also maintains contact with my udd and has also been her enabler often siding  with her against me although she has  also been a victim of udd's verbal abuse. Through my udd's most difficult years my mother often blamed ME for the things udd did rather than challenge her behaviour which I believe was out of fear of udd's response.

I think that this is the perfect time for you to step back and work on yourself and your mental health. When I was  first estranged from my gc it was really difficult and my eldest gc 2yo at the time cried and cried when they saw me again....but then it happened again.....and again and of course udd was defended while I was the one to blame. I was just expected to just get over it and told to go to my GP and get something for it( Anti-Depressants) as she didnt want to listen to any of my concerns about missing my GC or udds behaviour and how it was affecting my mental health. If I could go back I would definitely have sought out some therapy which I think is something of benefit that you to consider.

I leave them to it now and  it has become easier over the years to let go because the more I hear about dysfuctional famillies the more I dont feel alone. I now LC or NC is ok if it benefits you and is not being used to punish anyone. I now feel that it is  ok to do what I to do to for my own personal health and happiness.

Hi Bpdstinks,


However, I also think it's possible to not increase the personal suffering from this by - quietly- don't say anything to anyone about it- that will play into the drama- creating some distance from this for your own emotional well being.

I totally agree.

My udd is still in contact with members of my family, my mother included and has had regular contact with udd during our 6 years estrangement. Most of my family have witnessed udd's hostile behaviour towards me. They have even witnessed her physically attack me but maintain regular contact(apart from her siblings who she doesnt speak to) and include her in family functions meanwhile Iam left out yet am not the aggressor. I think the cruelty aspect comes from them wanting us out of their lives. My udd has shown minor passive aggression to other family members but not to the point that she has done with  me to the point of physical attack. I dont ask them about my udd because Iam now enjoying my life and have a lot of other positives in it. Apart from not seeing my grandchildren I dont miss anything else. I dont miss the abuse, the silent treatment, the lies, the circular arguments or the uncomfortable feeling  that came with being in contact with udd so for me it has been ok to not get these invites if udd has already accepted and will give the grandkids a good day out, then so be it.

I agree that it is good to know that your udd has someone in the family to turn to, but I dont think that enquiring information about your udd is particularly helpful. It is not allowing you to heal and move forward. That is another reason why I dont do FB. I find it more healthy to separate these relationships without the triangulation. I dont torment myself anymore thinking I need to reach out and fix things. I know I cant. I didnt cause this and neither can I cant cure it. I have to accept it. My mental health has improved so much by putting all the dysfunction out of my  life and moving on. I believe all failed r/s are meant to teach us something about ourselves or others and non are perfect including those between mothers and daughters and you shouldnt let Mothers Day that comes around once a year define your WHOLE life as a personal failure.






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This can be a hard decision to make. You can look at it from her point of view regarding her fertility timeclock. She needs time to find a suitable partner to have children with.  Also, would you want to have her as a mother to your child?  Maybe that is also driving your indecisiveness?

Freezing and fawning can mess with your decision making ability. Maybe try to stop doing this. Fawning was easier for me to stop. Freezing seems to go hand-in-hand with PTSD.

Another way to make a decision is to separate for a bit and return to your home country for a while. You can get a fresh perspective elsewhere. The gut and instinct might reappear when it feels safe to do so.

OK, my read of the situation is that he goaded you, and he was pleased when you reacted, because it proved to him that he still had power over you.  Then, when you said something untoward, he hit the jackpot, because you totally validated his victim narrative.  What's more, he turned around and proffered up new "evidence" of how victimized he is, to garner even more attention, pity and/or support from his friends.  Let me guess, he wasn't really devastated by your remark, was he?  My guess is that he was almost fake-mad and threatening, saying something like, You've hit a new low, I'm gonna make you pay for this, just you watch.  He was revelling in vanquishing you, right?  My guess is that he didn't accept your apology, maybe by saying, It's too late, you can't take your words back, you monster . . .

In my experience with pwBPD, their versions of emotional events tend to be highly distorted.  Sure, there might be a kernel of truth (e.g. you saying something you regret).  But you know what?  I'm almost 100% certain he left out the salient details of his part in the argument when he relayed it to his friends--that he was goading you, perhaps insulting you into the wee hours of the morning until you finally reached your breaking point.  And he certainly didn't reveal that you were remorseful and apologized.  Rather, his telling of events typically projects his own feelings and actions onto you.  He turns YOU into the abuser, though in reality he's the abusive one.

And I wouldn't rule out that this encounter might have been "staged."  I suspect that the pwBPD in my life has orchestrated certain altercations, seemingly to stir the pot, but also to get a reaction out of an adversary, and to bolster the victim narrative so to speak.  It's almost like he's trying to trigger you to do something that you feel guilty about, so that he can cash your payback check in the future.  Does that sound like an explanation?

Or maybe he just likes drama.  He likes the intensity of feelings because they make him feel alive, and he likes having an adversary that he can beat sometimes.  Breaking you down could perversely boost his self-esteem, but in a terribly misguided way.

Just my two cents.

I think in some situations, a pwBPD can do cruel things. Doing something cruel doesn't specify the exact motive.  Why they would do it, I don't know. I think they have their own emotional issues and project them. I also think they percieve themselves in victim positon and then lash out at whoever they perceive has hurt them, whether it's actually true or not. PwBPD tend to be impulsive. What I think is less likely is that they'd actually be thinking "how can I be mean to ________"? and plan it out. I don't think your BPD child may even be focused on how her behavior affects you, just her own thinking.

Family dysfunction can affect all family members who may behave in dysfunctional ways- not because they intend to necessarily but because this is what they perceive as the "normal" in their family. The pattern can pass down to generations that also replicate what they see as "normal".

What I see in your posts ( and keep in mind, we can't know all of any situation) is that the dysfunction goes beyond your daughter. There seems to be triangulation- daughter- your mother- you. ,and a lot of people communicating indirectly through triangles. Your mother appears to be in rescuer position with your D and also possibly with you. She's the go between. While this is better than no communication, it may also be perpetuating this situation. Your D doesn't have to communicate with you because, she can communicate through your mother.

Other family members also participate in the dysfunction. Your sister and neice as well.

This is hurtful to you. I have been on the receiving end of this kind of dynamic with my BPD mother and her FOO who aligned with her. It's a very hurtful situation. I won't ask you to not be sad about it. That's impossible to not be sad that it's going on.

However, I also think it's possible to not increase the personal suffering from this by - quietly- don't say anything to anyone about it- that will play into the drama- creating some distance from this for your own emotional well being. Your feeling hurt doesn't change your D, or anyone else in the family. It has no impact on their decisions. But it affects you, and that's the reason to try to diminish it if possible.

For me, it was to step away from the triangulation. Not reach out to a family member to discuss another family member or if they bring it up, to say as little as possible, change the subject. I also kept my own personal information to myself, knowing that whatever I said to one of them would be shared with the others. I did not anounce it, that would cause drama. I just did it.

You want to keep the communication doors open. Of course if something was important, you want to know about it. But you don't need to know who gets together when, what they say or don't say. FB posts don't mean a lot- people put up an image on FB that they want people to see. For all you know, that Mother's Day get together was full of drama that you didn't have to get involved with. BPD affects all relationships. It may appear they are getting along without you, but you don't know if it's true or not.

People feel most aligned when they have a common person to blame. It may be that once you step away from the triangle, they might focus on someone else.

I don't like the idea of unfriending family on FB. However, there is a way to hide your posts from them and also see less of theirs without unfriending them. They won't even notice. You can selectively hide your posts and show a few so they don't catch on. It just creates some emotional distance from them for you.

When you speak to your mother - don't ask about your D as much, maybe not even at all for a while. If she brings it up - keep your responses less emotional. If she asks how you are doing, tell her you are doing better- don't go into it with her. If your D wants to know your feelings, she can ask you herself.

It's hard to feel happy but I hope you give yourself permission to do so. It isn't all the time. There will be a song on the radio, or a picture or post, that brings up the sadness. These relationships are significant and the emptiness is a part of this. But you are worth having some happiness too.

Mother's Day is a hard one- whether it's because of a disordered mother or as a mother.  It's OK to feel sad. You are not over reacting. It's normal. I hope though that this next step for you is to take a step back from this family dynamic- and have some happy moments ahead.

It's very important that you do not normalize the disordered behaviors of your children's father to them by ignoring their feelings and how they are affected. If your child says something like: "I don't like it when dad yells.", you can say something like: "I don't like it either. We can use our words to explain how we feel without raising our voice." What is important is that you are responding to your child's feelings and are brief while explaining what a more appropriate mature response is.

It was not until I was in high school that my father explained to me he had done everything to get mental health for my mother with BPD and she refused to go see a mental health professional. Up until then, I did not know she had mental health problems and how to take her frequent melt downs. I felt that there was something wrong with me because of how badly I was treated by my mother. The second part of his response was not good. He asked me to not get into arguments with my mother. I was not given any way to take care of myself or to stop wondering if maybe I was the problem.