Right, but that's just the deposit.  Who is going to pay rent every month, and expenses for everything else she decides she needs?  You must know by now that with a pwBPD, the need to fill the void is constant, and if someone isn't there "entertaining" her, she's going to come back to you and start demanding more.  New couch.  Better furniture for the new place.  Someone to paint the walls.  TV doesn't work.  etc. etc.


I don't think there's any reason to consider what your W told you here.  Unless you're able to observe it for yourself, nothing she says is trustworthy.  She'll say whatever she wants about the relationship to get what she wants from you.

In all likelihood, their relationship is (or was...) just a fun novelty for the GF, and was only going to last as long as W was not burdening the GF with her needs, i.e. with all the BPD emotional neediness, or her actual cost of living.  Seems like it's already more or less over.  The GF knows her boundaries and will keep them.  You don't. 

Yeah, but you're not just an impartial observer here.  The ugliness is going to be your problem real soon.  In addition to the regular BPD stuff she was burdening you and your kids with, now she has an apartment lease someone is going to have to pay.

I don't think you did.  If he was throwing around threats of suicide that often, and behaving as you described, it's understandable you'd get frustrated and throw the threats back in his face.  sure, telling someone to kill themselves sounds awful, but given the history here, it's not the same as if you had told a non-disordered person that.  When you're dealing with a pwBPD, normal rules of human communication go out the window. 

Did he know about your friend who committed suicide?  The thought occurred to me that he might have been using your history to take advantage of you, thinking you'd cave on everything he demanded out of the fear that another person close to you could kill themselves.  But regardless, you have to understand: pwBPD use all sorts of manipulative tactics to get their way; you can't focus on what they're saying, just their behavior generally.  If you he hadn't successfully used threats of suicide to get what he wanted from you, he would've moved on and either tried something else.  He doesn't want to kill himself; he wants other things... he wants his way, he wants to be taken care of & not work, he wants attention, he wants sympathy.  He doesn't want to be accountable for his behavior or his own life.  Threats of suicide are just a means he uses to get his way.


pwBPD establish patterns with people who tolerate and enable them, and they return to that well as often as those people allow them to. 

And yes, using the word "progressing" was intentional.

A lot of developments lately. 

First, my goal has been to be kind and consistent with BPDw and let her live her life however she wants.  Of course, that has left me "painted black" at times and resulted in me spending a (very pleasant) night at a hotel so I could physically disengage in whatever was affecting her (more on that later).

W had been spending considerable time out of the house with the new GF lately.  That has changed the past few days.  More on that later. 

W has also had a "right now" urgency to finding her own place.  I stayed out of that drama.  She found a new place and signed a lease yesterday.  I'm quietly celebrating, not just for me being one step away from avoiding the chaos, but for the kids, and for her having her own life.  I have no expectations here, but I see myself biting my tongue until she actually spends time in her new place.  Most people figure out how they are going to pay for a place first.  BPDw does the opposite (as she does with everything) - runs her life based upon panic and deals with the means later.

To get the new place, I had to borrow money from my dad for a deposit.  Enabling?  Not sure, but there was no other way she would be able to leave otherwise, and it was to the point where I could not tolerate much more of her cold unkind attitude.  For my dad, he was happy to lend money knowing I and his grandkids would be better off.  He pretty much implied he had been waiting for years for me to ask him.  A few thousand for him is nothing compared to being able to see his grandkids more in the last years of his life. 

But once she is out, I see it as "over" in the sense I see no reason we would live together again.  That bridge is crossed.  My prediction is that I will be slowly doing more and more of the parenting responsibilities as she struggles to function on a basic level, and that is fine with me.   

Regarding the GF - today is GF's birthday.  W is now telling me GF does not want to see her and hasn't for the past few days.  I don't know the details as to why, but I don't need to know because I have already lived it.  99.9999% likely BPD entered the R/S and GF has distanced herself.  The only thing W has told me is that GF doesn't want to be around her unless they have positive experiences.  I'm guessing W was being overly negative and GF said - "I don't need this", and W has since been "love bombing" and that has made the situation worse.  I'm sure we have all experienced this.  W asked me this morning "maybe I should send her a meal for her birthday."   Uh oh.  I reminded her that unless she specifically asked for that, a meal is something you send a sick person or someone whose kitchen is being remodeled.  I suggested she send a simple cupcake instead that says "happy birthday" and nothing more.  I see this getting real ugly....

FYI - I am going to move onto the "detaching" board, as that is where I feel I am right now.

Good discussion.

Being toxic is not a one-time action...especially when being verbally attacked with suicidal threats and insults. 

He was mentally abusing you for extended periods of time, you said yourself that this happened daily.  And you did what all humans do, on one occasion of these endless attacks, you said what you actually felt in the moment.  Meanwhile, your ex said everything he felt in every moment and unfairly blamed you for it.  Hopefully you can see a clear difference between the two things.

Should you have said it?  No.  But should you have been placed in that situation to begin with.  No, no, no, and no!

You're trying to take responsibility, and that's great.  That's how people learn and grow.  But I also feel like you're so close to this and it's still so fresh, that you're not seeing the big picture clearly.

You made one mistake.  He made hundreds of mistakes weekly while completely betraying your trust.  In no world does that make you the "bad guy" or him the "good guy".

And don't get me wrong, he's not trying to be the bad guy.  He's simply mentally ill and terrible at coping with his own reality.

What I'm saying here is that you must let this go.  I know that feels impossible right now, but the problem here all along has been mental illness.  You couldn't fix it, you couldn't change it, and you literally had zero control over avoiding the moment in time you finally reached.  The only way to avoid what happened would have been leaving the relationship earlier.

Because let's be honest- pretend you didn't say what you said.  Then what?  You still know the thing he did to betray you, he's still going on and on about suicide, and that tension would only continue to build and build each day until something broke. 

In other words, that path wasn't sustainable- you were already well past the point of no return due to his actions.  So don't blame yourself for being human, anyone would have responded that way eventually under those circumstances.

Exactly- you have not done anything to her by deciding. You stayed this far, so did she. To marry or not is a choice.

I wonder if the increase in your emotional pain is due to the impending time frame of the biological clock for your partner. Before this, you still had time to not decide, and either decision, to marry or not, is very hard to decide on.

Your partner also has choices. Your feeling guilty- it's not all on you to decide this. She chose to stay this long too. I know this is hard as pwBPD tend to have a victim perspective, and blame others, but she also decided to wait and see.

Having to decide when your emotions are swirling and it's hard to think straight is difficult.

I hope you can get to an answer for yourself, whatever it is.

So, in a manner of speaking, your partner will make the decision (choice) that you haven't been able to make?  Does this help clarify your options?

As for the guilt feelings, that can muddle your decision making.  As with any relationship, whether work, recreation, school, religion, etc, you always can decide what you will or will not do.

First off, thank you all for your words of wisdom and support. There is so much to respond to, and it’s hard to touch on everything, but I’ll give it a shot.

I wanted to write earlier, but things became more intense on my end, and then the board seemed to have been offline for a day or so.


Thank you, much appreciated.


Yes, I guess I haven’t known what steps to take. It’s only been in the last few years that therapy has given me more perspective, but it feels like “too little, too late.” I’ve been frozen for so long that now the situation feels extremely severe.

There is a current situation that is hard to explain here without giving away too many identifying details, but it is basically another ultimatum-type moment. If I don’t take a certain step very soon, my partner has said the relationship will be over. I can see how my stalling and avoidance have brought us to a breaking point, and I feel a huge amount of guilt about that.

It’s heartbreaking because part of me can still see that it might be possible to move forward, especially since there has been progress through therapy. But there are also things I haven’t been able to say honestly along the way, because I was afraid, fawning, or trying to keep the peace. Those things are eating away at me now, because I feel like I compromised my own values by not being strong enough to be truthful earlier.


Thank you. I’m relieved to hear that this kind of conflicted state is not completely abnormal.


Yes, this is very true. I have been quite alienated from my own gut feelings. Although the relationship has been very hard at times, things have improved with both of us going through therapy. However, I had already been fawning and saying white lies for a long time, and I haven’t known how to repair that or move forward cleanly.


I think this is where it gets tricky. What I want most is peace and safety. The lack of safety comes partly from her volatility in the past, but also from the fact that I have created a situation that has not been fully honest. Many times, I haven’t been able to say what I really feel or set boundaries, and have instead “gone along” with things to keep the peace.

Now, finding peace and safety would require hurting someone I deeply love, and also throwing myself into what feels like a pit of despair. I’m not trying to be overdramatic, but the last few days have been absolute hell.


Hi CC43, thank you for your kind message and your thoughts.

I do feel alienated, but at the same time, I wasn’t held captive. So I keep asking myself: why was I not brave enough to change the situation years ago? Her family has been incredibly supportive and kind, and yet I have felt unable to make decisions or create a better situation for myself.

As for not proposing, I think part of me was hoping things might change and get better. In some ways, they have. My partner has been making healthier choices through therapy. But by this point, it feels like so much damage has happened because of my own inaction that I don’t know how to salvage it.


My partner has also said that I’ve been “comfortable” in this situation, but honestly, it has not felt comfortable. It has been many years of stress, difficulty, and trying to figure out what to do.

The sunk cost fallacy idea is interesting and definitely relevant. But for me it’s not only “I’ve invested so much into this relationship.” It’s also that my identity is so woven into the relationship that I don’t know who I am without it. There are so many good memories too. Everything around me is connected to those years together. Even when I’m alone, I often want to message her about my day, because we are also deeply connected and supportive of each other’s dreams.



These questions are very useful, thank you. I will reflect on them. The difficulty right now is that I feel too exhausted and overwhelmed to know what a “best case scenario” even looks like. My ability to think clearly from a calm place feels almost nonexistent right now. I’m reacting from panic, especially given the urgent ultimatum-like situation I’m in.


Hi TelHill, thank you for your response.

I have discovered through therapy and reading about fawning that it has been part of me since childhood. It feels so ingrained in my identity. My reaction to a dangerous or emotionally intense situation is to make myself as agreeable as possible.


This does seem like a good idea. I have thought about taking time alone somewhere in order to let my gut and instinct come back. The problem is that leaving right now would probably mean the end of the relationship. So again, everything feels like it immediately becomes a crisis.


Hi Notwendy, thanks for your message.

I never imagined I’d have Meatloaf quoted to me as a helpful thought in my situation, but I’m happy to read it.

Yes, I have become more aware recently that boundaries are not something we expect the other person to “allow,” but something we ourselves have to live by. That being said, trying to set boundaries in the past, for example saying I can’t stay in a conversation where I’m being shouted at, has often made things worse. If I step away, it can trigger my partner’s abandonment fears, and when I return, the tension can be just as high or higher. Over time, I think that trained me to stop trusting boundaries as something that could actually work.

You also mentioned that in ten years I have “seen the relationship as it is.” I think that is true. But I have also seen my partner make more positive choices recently as a result of therapy, such as stepping outside herself to take space rather than exploding or shouting. That makes it very confusing. It makes me wonder if there is still hope, or if the damage is already too deep.

I do see her as someone who can be very loving and supportive, but who is also afflicted by something very painful. She has never been formally diagnosed, and would not go through a diagnosis, but her therapist strongly considers BPD to be the issue, and based on the symptoms, it really clicked for both of us.

Thank you all again. I know this is long. I’m trying to take in what everyone is saying, but I’m also in a moment of acute panic and grief, so I’m not sure how clearly I’m processing it all.

I have seen posters mention this a lot. It must be common with BPD. It was common with my BPD mother. I'm sure this terrified my father. It certainly did as her children.

We aren't trying to villify your ex. I don't know if we can know all the motivations behind someone doing this. I think we can say that someone who brings up suicide is not emotionally healthy.

I think the lesson in this is to recognize it. Disordered people are everywhere- we will meet them at some point. If you begin a relationship with someone who does this in the future, this will hopefully alert you that this is not an emotionally healthy person to become involved with. You can choose who to become romantically involved with.

We don't choose our mothers but even in this situation- there was no talking or fixing this kind of thinking for her. She had access to mental health, it was up to her to work with the professionals. We are just lay people. So are you. And even if we were professionals, treating family is not appropriate.

If we are concerned, the best we can do is to call emergency, which I did at one point to get her to professsionals, but it didn't change her thinking.

Your ex has a mental illness. Mentally ill people have disordered thinking. Yet, he's still responsible for his behavior.

It's hard to explain this in logical terms. It's for you to learn from when looking at a future relationship.