Hi CrimsonBlue,

Thanks for the update. It's nice to know you were brave enough to go through this and stand firm. Congratulations.

I'm sorry for the miscarriage. Stress can do that as a normal process of the body. My wife said she also had a miscarriage years before knowing me, in a previous relationship in which she was being beaten up. I can't be sure if the pregnancy part was true, though, since fabricating lies is almost a compulsion for her, and once she makes up one, she never retracts it. Though today her lies are minor, because she doesn't want to get caught.

Once my wife became afraid that she could have had a miscarriage because she felt something drop in the toilet, but it was just a blood clot or something. But blood exams are the safe and easy way to confirm or refute a pregnancy.

In regard to your feelings, try not to feel responsible for her or for what happened, and instead, blame it on the disorder.

Hi, new here, does dBPD mean diagnosed BPD? Thank you

Happy Birthday!  (May I say, I am happy for you & jealous!  I wish my daughter would acknowledge ANY holiday...!) but....than (if it is like I remember, your heart pounds in "anticipation yet worry!) I, personally, (though, I am always SEEKING advice!) think I would (whatever form of communication you both share) simply say, thank you (I always add, hope you are well and I love you) I always say, to the group, it makes me sad, that it must be a flow chart on how to speak to our children, however, such is the life of BPD....I just met with my BPD therapist, who advised me, to grasp the reality....I "grieve for the daughter I "want" and need to accept the daughter I "have"....I hope it goes the way you want

.......Happy belated birthday btw.   

Hi CGAME,

Firstly I also think that it is wonderful that your dd acknowledged your birthday..

IMO I also think that expecting a heartfelt apology from your dd is probably very unlikely from anyone who has very strong NPD traits as they feel that they are NEVER in the wrong or at fault.

Also having any open communication  requires the ability to listen to the other party and with my udd that has been impossible because of her anger.

I think that you should give it time now that you have apologised and be patient and wait for a response from your dd.

Update

Ever since I went ahead and mentioned to her about the divorce, her initial reaction was cold and it could be because my family was sitting with their family and I announced it on front of them all. I also mentioned that I am with her for any decision that she has for the baby. I was shocked to see her reaction to be so cold, I say this because her family members were trying to convince me and asking for another chance but she was stopping them to do so and in fact just asked me one thing "do you love me anymore?" to which I said "no" and she concluded the meeting.

The thing is I do love her but it felt like she wanted me to say this so she could feel like she did not participate in this "pulling the plug". Anyway, that is how I read it.

Since that day, I was every other day checking up on her for the baby's health and her's but unfortunately our baby got miscarried. This is what was told to me. When I asked for the doctor's prescription for any medicine or Ultra Sound report, she denied that she had any and said that she directly communicated with the doctor over phone. I am able to believe it but my family is very skeptical about it. Anyway, this still was shocking to me and I am sure the pain that she must have been going through would have been devastating. We are both grieving this loss but my decision to not continue the marriage is still solid.

Feelings Update:

I have been in super guilt cycles and many times thought about if I was reacting supportively to those fights or not. I have been doubting my decision many times. When she contacted me after our baby's loss she was really begging for me to come back. It was very tough to say no to her. I literally told her that I love her but I cannot live with her. And if she really loves me then as the last act of love, let me go. This is also how I see it because I really do love her but the memories of when we were living together that felt like survival mode to me guides me for my future. Its just a matter of choosing myself vs the relationship. The kind of person I am, even saying this line feels selfish. My friends and family call it self - preservation and also say that by choosing this relationship I am abandoning my own self. The feeling as I remember is exactly that though, when we lived together. I was really just living my life according to how she wanted and how I could keep the waters calm. Still the decision of choosing myself regardless of what people say or the fancy words of 'preservation' and 'choosing my self' feel a bit selfish. More so, like I am a villain in this story. But my body also responds terrified when I think of going back. So yea, here I am.

Hi all, I just want to share my good news.

For some time I have been expressing my hopes of writing a success story on this board, and it seems like it won't take too long because I'm already beginning to see improvements.

By mid-January, I successfully arranged our separation, against her will. This first step was essential to stop the conflict. Then I could delve deeper into my research. I already had hopes because of the DBT treatment studies, but my hopes increased after I did extensive research on pharmacological treatments as well, particularly the studies on opioid blocker medication and the endogenous opiate dysregulation theory on BPD, as well as the successful reports on off-label usage of opiate blocker medication to treat specific BPD symptoms.

At the beginning of February, I got her on opiate blocker medication. Initially, we went for the very low dosage (about 100 times less than the regular dosage), which is very innocuous. I do think the low dosage helped with her well-being, but it was not preventing her from having outbursts, which could still go on for hours and extend to the next day. At times I brought her to my place for a weekend. In the first weekend she had the worst outburst, and the next ones were less awful, but still bad enough for me to try to rush her out.

So now in March, a couple of days ago, while she was here again, we upped the dosage to the low end of the regular dosage used in BPD studies. I was not expecting her conflict-seeking patterns to subside, but I was expecting that the complete blockage of opioid reward would prevent her from continuing the outburst. The results were exactly how I expected. On the morning of each day, the effects subsided, and she gradually began to go into havoc again until I got her the medication. Usually when she is angry, she refuses to comply with any kind of treatment, but this time it was different, as she hardly resisted. Because she is also noticing the improvement. Her only complaint was the side effect of sleepiness, but we cut the dosage by half. Yet, she felt completely restored for having slept so well over here. It was our longest weekend together, which extended into 4 nights.

As she noticed the improvement of our interactions, this perception increased her hopes for our relationship, which then made her become more proactive. So she finally scheduled herself for her first DBT session for next week. She also scheduled her consultation to insert an intrauterine birth prevention device (we are not having sex, and she says it's because of her fears of getting pregnant again).

Later on, while she was upset about being in her mom's house and not feeling welcome there, I said perhaps I could rent a place for her if I got a good job. That made her angry at me. She stated that I made her feel disgusted. At first, I couldn't understand why, but then she wrote this to me:

---

Now I'm the one who's going to set the conditions, the deadlines... okay?
If I don't move back in there in 1 month, with you taking me back, AND I'M IN THERAPY, I'm only going to treat you as the father of my children, because I know myself. I want to be married, with someone every day, and if you don't give me that, I assure you I'm going to pursue it for my life.

But whether you want to believe it or not is up to you.

I'm young; I'm 31 years old, and I have my whole life ahead of me. If you think it's going to be difficult to build a life and a family with someone, you're wrong, and my uterus is in perfect shape.

---

I became very proud of her for the fact that she has finally used logic. I actually find it a cute and naive threat. I read it as "I need to be with you."

Another promising type of treatment that I researched is the non-stimulant ADHD treatment medication, which has repeatedly been shown to improve BPD symptoms as well. She is using one that decreases norepinephrine in the entire brain while stimulating a specific region of the PFC, which helps in controlling emotions and with being more logical. She has been taking this medication intermittently and in fractional dosages, but it might also be helping.

Please feel free to ask questions, express concerns, and give advice.

Using your lawyer's process server is the least risky option.  This way you know service is accomplished and reported to the court.  Downsides?  The process server might not find her or get delayed elsewhere and then service has to be done at another time.  Or she might get upset that you didn't do it yourself.  Frankly, nothing you do or don't do will make her happy.

Hi CC43

Thank you for the response.  I thanked her for the birthday wishes and told her I loved her and would love to see her.  What she does with that is up to her.  I apologized for the only thing I could take responsibility for and hoped she could accept that apology and turn over a new leaf.  If she is not going to be specific about what the apology is for and what it means to her, which would open the floor to have an actual conversation then again that's up to her to decide whether she can move on.  My hope in doing this is that at some point she will get tired of trying to get me to do what she wants me to do to make things better.  I know that this is about more than the apology.  She can't tolerate the idea that she said very hurtful things to me.  It would mean she would have to feel the deep shame of what she said.  I'm hoping it's just enough to get her to the other side of this so moving forward we will be having a very different relationship. One where she can decide when she wants to connect and keeping it surface and simple where I don't share too much about my life and give very little to use against me.  I can only hope.

Hi there,

I see that your daughter is trying, and it was nice of her to recognize your birthday, with a token gift no less.  However, it seems sad that it might have been a "cover" to rekindle her grievances, a sort of bribe to extract what she thinks she wants--an apology from you.  Maybe it would depend on the wording of her note, but my sense from you is that you feel manipulated, correct?  Do you think that if you apologized, your daughter would recognize her role in the situation, the issue would be patched up, and you two could move forward?  Or maybe you think that if you "confess" and apologize, it would be tacit consent for your daughter to continue to treat you badly, and that she might escalate with increased demands for your time/money/resources which you can't afford to provide?

Oftentimes on these boards I read about situations of estrangement from BPD adult children.  I'm currently in that situation right now.  Generally I advise parents not to "beg" their estranged child to resume contact, because they are keeping their distance for a reason--possibly to get some time and space to get back to baseline, to "protect" themselves from supposedly "toxic" behavior, or maybe even to punish the offending parent with their absence.  When parents reach out too soon and frequently, I think it infringes on the adult child's desire for space, while at the same time it reminds the child of the unresolved emotional tension.  Having said that, on these boards I've recommended parents to consider sending simple well wishes on important dates, such as birthdays or a major holiday, to show that you still think about them and want them to feel included in the family.  But by the same token, I've advised to minimize any emotional content in the message, and anything that looks like manipulation or a bribe, such as "I have presents for you."  Here, the situation seems to have been reversed, because your estranged BPD daughter is the one reaching out to you on your birthday, but she sends a mixed message by trying to extract an apology from you.  That's exactly the sort of thing I've advised against.  Do you see what I mean?

I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation.  I think I might acknowledge and thank her for sending the happy birthday wishes, in the hopes that that might open the door a crack towards a reconciliation.  But I doubt I'd make any unwarranted apology.  I might think about an apology along the lines of, "I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt, I never intended that," but my opinion is that it probably wouldn't be acceptable to your daughter, based on your post.  She's already showing her discontent for the timing of an apology from you, and my guess is that she'd dispute the content of it too.

Increasingly, I'm wondering if an apology will ever work with a pwBPD.  I get the sense that parents here are desperate and have repeatedly reached out to an unkind adult child who should have been the one to apologize.  A reasonable person would have empathy, seek clarification and understanding, find a way to patch things up and move forward.  But many pwBPD lack these traits.  Worse, their expectations can seem totally unreasonable, maybe even delusional, and their version of events can veer far off from the truth.  I guess I'm saying, apologizing for actual wrongs with reasonable people can lead to a positive outcomes, especially if you are sincere and try to make it up to them.  But making an unwarranted apology to an unreasonable person only fuels the fire in my opinion.  Apologizing could signal that you accept abusive behavior from your daughter.  She could take it a step further and demand retribution.  Does that sound about right?  I guess my question is, what is the most likely scenario?

This might be a little off topic, but I'll wrap up with a situation I encountered with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  She was estranged from her sister for a few years.  She had the idea of flying to her sister's place and reading her a letter detailing all the ways she felt abused by her sister, to air her many grievances so to speak.  I think she thought that upon hearing the words, her sister would apologize.  I didn't have to read the contents of the letter to sense that this idea wasn't a good one, because I was certain that the letter contained major fact distortions and was highly accusatory.  I felt there was no way her sister would agree to the narrative, let alone apologize, let alone "atone" and pay retribution.  I felt the whole scenario would backfire, and probably blow up.  So I discouraged the trip (BPD stepdaughter wanted the money for it).  At the same time, I felt the planned trip was just another distraction from what my adult BPD stepdaughter should have been doing, namely concentrating on her therapy and resuming some college studies.  A cross-country trip with a failed apology and sisterly blow-up would probably derail everything.  So I think it was best to maintain the status quo of estrangement at that time.  Clearly the BPD stepdaughter wasn't "ready" for reconciliation, as her thinking was too unreasonable, and her expectations weren't realistic.  Sound familiar?