Hello.  I don't know how you felt when you wrote these words, but if you were feeling bad about letting go of your boundary or saying something non-dbtish, I just want to say, "You're human!"  And it doesn't really make a difference past the very short-term anyway.

I just did the same -- after lots of blaming, lambasting, etc., I let loose with some (truthful) non-dbt frustration and messed up my own boundary of not responding to that stuff.  Then I felt like I should apologize -- even though it happened in the middle of me getting verbally whipped.  Thank goodness, a friend talked me out of it.

I’ve recently been reflecting on my relationships.

The realization that one of my parents was probably somewhat of a narcissistic personality with similar BPD traits.  While they were fully functional, I spent a lifetime trying to please them and smooth over their lack of concern for others and manage their relationships with other people in my life. 

The realization that my relationship with that parent may have made me look for people who need caring/help.   

Noting that I was afraid to really date or be with someone in grade school because of how that parent reacted and might react (plus observing how they acted with my sibling). 

Realizing a lack of self esteem and feeling worthy wrecked a chance at a relationship in high school. 

Realizing being free of my parents in college allowed me to pursue a relationship and fall hard for someone and feeling truly like a real person for the first time in my life. 

Going through a horrible breakup with that person and feeling like I was unworthy of love, and having the same parent not being supportive or understanding beyond stating they wanted to hurt the person and telling me I needed to get over it.   

Falling into a relationship with someone who made me feel somewhat like I did in that relationship, and then experiencing all of the bewildering mind(bleeps) that are being in a relationship with someone with BPD and not knowing why. 

Finding out fairly recently that my first true love apparently has a pattern of narcissism and mistreatment of others while hiding behind a compassionate facade. 

Looking at my current long term relationship and realizing I don’t know who I am, and that maybe part of my problem is never establishing my own self esteem or identity when I am with other people.  Maybe that’s why I am constantly feeling this way. 

Anyone else done this? 

Reading about being a caretaker and read something that resonated with me. 

To paraphrase, a BPD individual cannot handle their caretaker being separate from them in emotions, thoughts, ideas, etc.   The goal is always to make you a part of who they are. 

When I think about it, every discussion recently has felt like both a desire to soothe their feelings that are irrational, but also to make ME feel the same way.   

It explains why I often feel like I’m in a relationship with a lawyer who must prove why their feelings are important and why my own opinions, separate feelings/emotions are irrelevant.   

It’s also fascinating to see the concept that you as caretaker may be part of their problems with object permanence.   The idea that if I’m not physically present, I don’t fully exist in their mind.   

I've dealt with this often insofar as phones and apps and single-user-logins go. I haven't learned a healthy way to prevent the anger outside of controlling variables to prevent the problems, but - as I've learned - controlling too many variables removed my wife's autonomy and created new sets of problems.

I'm newer to the tool side, but in the past year I started delicately not caring when things like the sound bar pushed her into a rage. "That sucks, let me know if you need help" and then letting silence take me to another room. I used to just try and help.

There was a moment where an almost conspiracy like backlash happened with her phone, and that was difficult. She doesn't treat others with intense emotion - particularly strangers - so I found that encouraging her to call the cell provider or go to a store worked well. I don't think it cooled the anger, but it gave her the opportunity to weigh my method of troubleshooting tech versus sitting at an AT&T store for an hour to have someone google a solution.

I'm realizing that "validate and move on" might be the best solution in my home. How do you work through those moments? Particularly without absorbing the emotional impact?

Well put.

It doesn't sound like the son's father's place was a good situation for the son, so that wasn't an option for him.

I think most posters would say they had no idea of the complexity of being with a pwBPD at the beginning, even if the diagnosis was known.

Every poster is an important part of this thread. It's OK to need advice. We all do at times. This is also a lay board- and we share our own experiences and what we learned on the way. Being on this board has helped me to understand the dynamics between my parents better.

The meanness- the verbal insults and accusations, these are difficult. It's hard to not react or feel them personally. The reality is that, when dissociated, they are less about you than the pwBPD's projections of their uncomfortable feelings in the moment. That doesn't mean you have to tolerate verbal abuse, but it helps to be able to hold on to your own reality- that what she says in the moment, doesn't define you.

First and foremost, thank you all. I'm doing prep work for my NEABPD course and sleeping in my office tonight. I haven't cried in a long while. Not because I'm afraid to cry, but because I've learned that keeping my emotions small keeps me unnoticed. Or so I thought.

NotWendy - this comment hit home. If I'm honest, me *today* would not have dated my wife. She had two children with two different men (not a problem). The oldest's father was incarcerated and the youngest's father and she went through a very nasty divorce (he suffers from a schizophrenic bipolar combination). Little (thirty year old) me said... "I can fix this!" I was ignorant. But I fell in love with her and the kids (my reasons for staying, both of them). I believed (and believe) that she wasn't who I was seeing, but someone stuck behind trauma layers and history of abuse. And that the kids needed real love and leadership from a stable male figure. In other words... the white knight rescuer who had no clue how shortsighted he was.

Our oldest left for his dad's. His dad lives in squalor, works odd jobs and moves in and out of prison. I'm proud of him: he quickly realized this wasn't the life he wanted. He and my wife mended (she's been very good with him since) and they've done wonders. He's an amazing guy who has taken more on his mantle then he ever should have had to. But... that's life.

I remember asking him when I got home from my travelling gig (before he left): Is this what you want? I had to call, because he was staying at a friend's. And he said "I don't know another way."

And here I am, too, not knowing another way.

The house? Solvable. Kids? Sadly, not mine. Solvable. Pets? Dividable. Money? Split the debt.

The fire on the pyre is that tomorrow is her birthday. I'm sure you all can spell wonders about resentments, but I'm served every failure on a platter on a daily basis (near daily for five years, at least).

But when it's good, it's good.

I'm really grateful for you all. I'll move out of this phase and hope to be a contributing and helpful member of this community.

I'll add a small nugget: I dated a woman in 2014 for a year. Undiagnosed, but I'm confident of a B-complex disorder. Things like "get out of this car so I can drive it into a wall."

Had I known my wife had BPD, I would not have dated or pursued this relationship. We began dating in 2018, married in 2020 (amidst a spat between my mom and her, of course) and she was diagnosed in 2022.

Damn, how I'd do it all different. But I still love her. All of her. Even the _____ty parts. I just wish they were kinder.

I wonder why the son couldn't choose to live with his father. I recall as a teen that I would have wanted to do that too, if it had been an option for me. It's impossible to completely shield anyone in the family from the BPD behavior. It impacted my BPD mother's relationship with me as a teen too.

Her reaction to to a new boundary is predictable.  It's an extinction burst.  People with BPD traits (pwBPD) are highly resistant to change, even positive changes.  Will she adjust?  No one can know, it depends on her.


That you're possibly moving on to a third is an indicator.  The couples counseling concept is to repair the relationship.  As I understand it, it is not to decide whether to continue the relationship.


There's another reason above and beyond your good behavior.  If you lose your cool, you expose yourself to serious legal consequences.  Conversely, when she hits you, that also is considered Domestic Violence (DV).  DV is a very serious matter, not to be ignored or accepted.

Even before I concluded there was no hope for my marriage, I started to (quietly) record my spouse's rants and rages.  (This was before smart phones, so I used digital voice recorders.)  I felt I needed proof I wasn't the one aggressively causing conflict.  She of course played the victim but what an aggressive "victim" she was.  And yes, eventually the police and courts got involved.

That you've just bought a home ties you even deeper into the marriage.  If the marriage does end then you'd likely have to sell the home and split the equity, if any.


If the children have other fathers then, unless you've adopted them, domestic relations (family) court would not view you as the legal parent.  Of course, consultation beforehand with a local family law attorney is vital to know where you stand in a variety of aspects, including parenting status, etc.

I think these relationships are very individual and the time line for personal growth is different for each one, that there isn't a "too late". You are here after 6 years and that is where you are at.

My own opinion is that your T was wise to shift to you examining your reasons for staying. While learning about BPD and DBT is good information for you, that will depend entirely on the person with BPD's motivation to do this, if they will. I think you will gain more by focusing on your own reasons and emotional growth.

I also don't consider staying or leaving as being a success or failure. Each decision is a very individual one and each person makes the best decision for their own circumstances. The person who stays isn't superior to the person who leaves or is better at enduring or making it work. Both staying and leaving are complicated and diffucult decisions in their own ways.

That someone stays isn't always due to them being able to make the relationship better or "normal". I do think the tools on this board and personal therapy help take down the drama in the relationship. We can't change another person but when we change our behavior in the dynamic, there is the possiblity of changing that, and in some situations, it's enough to make the situation better. It does not "cure" the pwBPD. Validating is one of these tools, and it can help, but how much can vary.

In assessing my experience with my BPD mother and father, her behavior is easier to understand. She was the one who had BPD. My father, who in ways was the more emotionally stable one, was more complicated to figure out. I had thought of my mother as being the problem, but he too was a part of the dynamic between them. It was a function of them both.

He stayed, but I think the best explanation for why the marriage endured was again- he had his reasons, and those we can't really know from the outside. It didn't change that my mother had BPD. She was not able to have the insight to work with therapy on that. Some others are motivated to do that, and make progress with that and their relationships. Each pwBPD is an individual too. 

These relationships are confusing because- they aren't all good and they aren't all bad. They aren't what we think of as "normal". I could say the same for my experiences with my parents growing up.

We all started somewhere with learning to navigate these situation, and boundaries, made errors, learned from them. Yes-keep in mind- even if you don't do this perfectly, none of us do or did and your saying is still true-
You are not the things she says you are. You are not the person she accuses you of being. You am worthy of being loved and respected, and treated with care and empathy.