CC43,
You hit the nail on the head: I need to make friends with people whose focus is not on endless trauma. I will use your suggestions to share more of what I am interested in with others and to start doing more activities that I enjoy by participating in groups where I can do these things. I continue to work on mainly associating with people who have the capacity for reciprocal interactions and do not blindside me with endless rants about their traumas like my mother with BPD used to do.

My mother with BPD hired people to do nearly everything including ironing our clothes. She even hired other people's children to do work that my siblings and I could have done, as she feared her children becoming independent adults and abandoning her. She was highly dysregulated all the time, did not sleep well, and always exhausted. There were from time to time, bursts of high mood. I think she was too overwhelmed to do much. My dad very kindly once said he could not understand why she complained of being tired when she really did not do much. He seemed to understand that there was something wrong with her, so he let her hire people to help, even though we were not rich. Many years later, when I was an adult, a neighbor remarked on all the hired help we had. I had not realized until then how abnormal that was.

Pete, it's a bit of all of it and from a child's point of view growing up, it takes time to catch on to what is going on. Parents are authority figures so we assume they are the adults. I knew something was different. The other aspect is the shame, and secrecy with BPD. BPD mother did have the concerns about what others might think and so there was this illusion that she was "normal".

By about 9 or 10 I recall her rages and destrutive behavior but the day after, my parents would act as if nothing happened. We learned not to ask. At about 12, I was sharing what I learned in school with my father. He was listening to me. BPD mother started to act silly and cute- it was like a toddler wanting attention. I recall wondering about that. Also by that age, I could do most household tasks and we kids were pretty self sufficient. She was also drinking at that time, I thought it was the alcohol. By high school I was embarrased to have friends come over as I didn't know what they'd see her do at home.

One mystery was- what did BPD mother do all day while we were at school? We didn't see her do much of anything. College was my way to get away from it and so that is what I did. I would be home on school breaks and the behavior was the same but I didn't see it as much.

BPD mother had a high need to have people do things for her, even things she could have done herself. She'd either order me to do them, which scared me, or manipulate me to do them. She also was critical of what I did- finding something I did or didn't do that she could be angry about.

Mostly though, I pursued my own schooling, career, family. Visits were short, and often she held it together in general. She was also always with my father. I was not aware of the extent of emotional caretaking he took on. Visits were still chaotic. My parents had no routine, no regular meals. BPD mother ate what she wanted, whenever. Dad would heat up something simple.  I had a routine with my kids, and so they would fit in to that. I would cook a meal, they'd eat, then BPD mother would go lie down on the couch. Dad would play with the kids while I cleaned up the kitchen. It was like looking at my own childhood, where Dad took on the parenting tasks. The payoff though- my kids bonded with him. They loved their grandfather.

Until he couldn't - due to age and illness. This is something for Max to consider. At the moment, the main focus is on the kids, and supporting the family. The whole structure of the family is on your shoulders. The chaos that ensued when my father got ill was scary. I was afraid for his own well being if he couldn't take care of himself.

What was interesting was that, in a way, BPD mother aged into more "normalcy", because it isn't unusual for an elderly person to need assistance in taking care of herself. However, her emotional needs exceeded her actual physical needs. In assisted living, the levels of care are determined by level of physical need. Hers were not very high. However, emotionally she functioned like a young child. She needed that level of care and attention but elder care isn't set up for that.

Even though her level of function was not competent, she retained legal competency as she was congnitively intact and so she still retained the ability to mismanage her finances, decide to comply with medical care or not. Her extended family, who eventually caught on to her issues, urged me to consult an elder law attorney to see if there was a way to intervene. I learned a lot from the attorney but ultimately- as long as BPD mother was legally competent, she was autonomous.

By this time, I was aware of her level of impairment. She was completely self focused. Why this is, I don't think we can fully understand.

As to why you didn't see this at first, and I don't think my father did at first either- we meet someone while we are younger. We don't have the big responsibilities like children, house payments. Like many people with BPD, they can hold it together, especially when relationships are relatively care free. So your wife was also able to have flings when she wanted to. By our 40's, 50's. I think we have gained some maturity more than someone with BPD has. It can still be possible to  attract someone, but the maturity gap is wider. I guess it is still possible but I would think it might be more challenging?

My uneducated guess is that they get so hyper-focused on things they have no control over (what people say/think, etc) that they constantly run from it and search for the next great thing.  And when they can't find it, they start shutting down and getting depressed.

My ex would also go through cleaning spurts (usually 15 minutes before company was supposed to arrive) and then not touch a thing for months.  If I brought it up in any way, it was world war III about how I always put her down, I never support her, etc. 

But then she'd always say such a peculiar thing, "...I worked my ass off today and you never even see it."  If I asked her what she worked on though, it would almost always be, "I washed two loads of laundry."  Not fold laundry, mind you, not hang it or anything else....she simply took the 1 minute it takes to throw laundry into the washer and the dryer.  But she'd stick to her story and double down how she "worked her ass off".

Of all the arguments we ever had, that was by far the most puzzling and it happened almost weekly for 20+ years.

My ex blocked my email just hours before the police arrived and asked her to step outside.  She was facing a Threat of DV charge.  Of course, eventually there was a quickie trial and case dismissed.  That was 21 years ago when we separated and divorced.  I haven't checked in a long time but I'm sure my email account is still blocked.

Our child was three years old then, now grown and long past aging out of the custody orders.  We do have texting as an option and often our son is the go-between.  It is what it is.

Acceptance is one of the stages of Grieving a Loss.

One concern when trying to be accommodating when in a relationship with a person displaying BPD traits and patterns is that it can slip into appeasing and that is a relationship imbalance and unhealthy.  It is perceptions getting out of control and being unable or unwilling to perceive that.

A certain amount of push-pull is fine in a healthy relationship.  Some would say it adds spice to life.  But the on-again, off-again discord you're experiencing is why many here found it is frustrating and impractical to "still be friends" after an ended BPD relationship.  Sometimes we can't go fully NC because of complications such as having long term entwined finances or having children together.

The Bridge
The Backyard Black Hole
There's a Hole in My Sidewalk

I think it's both, a mix of the sense of overwhelm in everyday tasks, plus a strong sense of entitlement.  But I'd add other factors too:  not being able to handle shame, as well as using AVOIDANCE as a general coping tactic, which eventually leads to competency issues.

How would shame be a factor?  I could imagine it in cooking.  Your pwBPD might envisage cooking a meal, but she's so scared about making a mistake (e.g. burning it), that she quits before trying.  She could be afraid of being "exposed" for her lack of competence.  And so her coping tactic is to get someone else to cook for her.  She just can't take obstacles and setbacks in stride, because she takes everything too hard and uber-personally.

Another possibility is that she's afraid of looking "stupid."  My pwBPD, though she's in her late 20s, has the vocabulary of an early teen, which I think is mainly because she lost some years of education and life experience because of her BPD dysfunction.  Thus I think she's confused by everyday menu terms, like filet, medallion or julienned vegetables, as well as by some slightly more sophisticated food items, such as arugula, fennel, asparagus, farro, capers, etc.  She has trouble finding something "safe," and she's afraid of making a mistake, perhaps by mispronouncing a word, or ordering something she doesn't like.  She lacks the confidence to ask the server about a menu item.  She freezes up, especially if she can't find something familiar, like pizza, burgers or mac & cheese.

I can't help but recall a passage from Hillbilly Elegy, where JD Vance observed that his upbringing in poverty hadn't exposed him to restaurant dining as a kid, and he felt overwhelmed when he was first exposed to it as a young adult.  He lamented that he had trouble picking out a white wine, because he didn't know the difference between Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc.  I believed he picked Chardonnay because he thought it was easier to pronounce.  I happen to think that's pretty normal, and I went through the exact same thing as a young adult.  But the difference was, I knew I was smart enough--I just hadn't been exposed to these options before.  I had enough sense to ask someone else to order the wine, because, "I don't know enough about wine to make a good choice," or something like that.  If under duress, I would have asked the server for recommendations, or ordered the house wine or something.  But I wouldn't take that as demeaning, or exceedingly embarrassing.  I would take it in stride, learn from it and move forward.  If someone ordered Chardonnay for the table, I delighted in discovering that I liked it!  But pwBPD are so INSECURE and fearful of being "exposed" for incompetence, that they struggle with seemingly simple things like ordering from a menu.  Their classic coping tactic is avoidance, or getting someone else to do it for them.  And that might be why they seem so stuck in a childlike, dependent, seemingly incompetent state.

I'll wrap up with another thought:  I believe that because of volatile emotions, pwBPD have a really hard time with executive functioning generally.  Executive functioning involves having a vision, making a plan, prioritizing, focusing on completing tasks, filtering out distractions, tolerating distress, overcoming obstacles and trouble-shooting.  I've observed that even "vision" is an issue for them.  "Vision" involves knowing one's goals, likes and dislikes--such as the goal of having a nice home that is clean and orderly, or following a healthy daily routine.  PwBPD have such an unstable sense of self, they have trouble even envisioning a life they want that's both realistic and stable (and not based on fantasy).  I think "vision" also involves taking overall responsibility, as in, "I'm an adult, I'm responsible for myself, and I have a vision for leading a functional, healthy lifestyle."  It includes  "noticing" what needs to be done, and adjusting the gameplan accordingly.  Like:  We have a leak after that storm.  The first step is to mop up the water, maybe set up a fan to dry it out, and determine if I need to repaint anything.  Next, check if a window was left open or something.  Then determine if there's a fix I can handle, like caulk a window and repaint, and make a plan to buy supplies over the next few days, while carving out some time to make repairs over the weekend.  If I can't fix the problem, I need to call a professional and get it fixed before the next storm.  But first I need to research some people to call, then get a couple of estimates, then I need to schedule the work.

But I think pwBPD don't have that "vision" of how to be a responsible adult and make things happen in their life.  I think they are stuck in child mode, expecting others to make everything happen FOR them.  With this mindset, their needs are immense, their expectations are unrealistic, and they feel constantly aggrieved.

Just my two cents.

With my BPDw, cleaning is a weird thing.  She may do nothing for months and then obsess about it.  The obsession sometimes is a reason to blame or criticize others.  I may do all the laundry including folding and putting away for months, and suddenly she obsesses about it and will make comments that she had to take over because I was doing it poorly or not getting it done, and how much work it is for her.  Or she may eventually clean/organize her messes, then complain about others.  Like stepping over her shoes on the floor to complain about our daughter's shoes on the floor. 

But the weird one was after she moved out, she would come over and complain about how disorganized and dirty my house was.  Yet this was a month after she moved out - so SHE was at least partially responsible for that disorganization and mess.  Yet when I went to her apartment, it was even more disorganized and messy, but she was either too depressed or busy to address it. 

It does seem rather childlike.  But I think for them being introspective is almost impossible because of the splitting.  They can't simply say, "Ok, I can do better at this".  For them it is "I screwed up so I am completely worthless."  It is either all someone else's fault, or an unescapable pit that they won't descend.   

It makes total sense to walk away, and I'd do so with a stranger or someone I don't care about. But when you're so enmeshed with these people you almost feel like you need to clear things up, which never works. I've tried the whole 'I'm not willing to discuss something that didn't happen' and walk away. But that would blow up to, into me not taking accountability and being 'abusive'. Then she would consult her friend about my abuse I was then recommended, by both of them to read 'Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men'.

To which I said no. Me reading that due to her lies and exaggerations means I accept that I'm angry, controlling and abusive. In my sarcastic ways, I asked her to read books on her mental health disorders, which to her was abusive of me to ask.

In addition to getting blamed for things that I hadn't actually done, I would also get accused of doing - or planning to do - a thing that she supposedly dreamed about (typically cheating). 

The first time I heard that, I laughed, thinking it was no big deal.  "I had a dream you cheated on me."  That's funny, right?  No grown adult could be that much of an idiot to conflate a dream with reality right?  Wrong.

This would sometimes lead to a day of silent treatment because I didn't react *exactly* how she wanted to reassure her that her "dream" was not "ESP" or whatever pseudo-scientific, psycho-babble she claimed.  "It's a sign that deep down inside I know you're going to cheat and don't love me"

Her obsession with me cheating begs the obvious question of whether she ever did & this was all projection on her part.  I don't know.  I never had any clear evidence of it, but did she have opportunities?  Sure, especially after she went back to work.  Around this same time in our relationship though was when I first learned about BPD when some suggested she fit the diagnostic criteria of it.  And I was in the process of some "radical acceptance" as I was mentally processing all this and looking for some objective points to hold to as I decided on whether I would stay in the marriage and work on it, or get out.  Ultimately, I decided not to agonize over whether she cheated.  I was already miserable enough as it was, and didn't want to add to that.  I told myself if she did cheat and I found out, or found evidence, I would be done with the marriage immediately; that would make it an easier decision. 

It was easier to adopt this laissez faire attitude toward infidelity because after around 4 years of being on the receiving end of BPD-treatment, I was done.  Any sense of affection was replaced by resentment over how she treated me, and how she treated my family members.   

Note that, even after our divorce was finalized, she didn't drop the accusations of infidelity.  she still kept telling my daughter that I cheated on her.  I had a long talk with my daughter about it, around a year ago because she wanted to know if that was true (she hinted up front she didn't believe her mom anymore), and why we got divorced.  I told her that I never cheated, but her mom was always accusing me of it.  She said her mom was constantly doing that to her boyfriend (now husband), and so I think that helped her see that it wasn't me!