Just a few questions to get me reoriented to where you're at now:

Is this an official legal document? I.e. filed with the court, spells out specific parenting times, etc?

And do you currently have a lawyer (or did you during the custody agreement process)?

Is anyone in leadership in your church aware of your custody and parenting time situation? If not, if it were me, I'd probably do a proactive "Hey, just want to give you a heads up about our situation, it's XYZ and I'm happy to share paperwork with you if you need it" type email. No blame, just a "hey, both parents are here and our child is here, so here is the legal framework we're working with, if you guys need documentation"

I love my privacy, and I'd also feel violated by what she did. You know her best, so you can think about what all is going on in your life (legal stuff, etc), and decide if a "one and done" email with your L cc'ed could be worth it. Something like "Hi Ex; Just a heads up that I do not consent to you filming me or D at church. Thank you; grootyoda"

You have a custody agreement -- it's OK to stick with it. Something simple, like "Sorry, that doesn't work" or "thanks for asking, that doesn't work" is fine.

What's trickier is what you're noticing, which is the impact it has on your D.

Does your W try to get D "amped up" about seeing her, and then "get her sad" when she can't go with Mommy right away? Or is it more like I think I'm reading, where it's less about W manipulating D directly, and more about W making sure that other adults see her with D?

I think you may be able to use validation with your D to navigate this --

maybe in the car after church, having some kind of conversation like "you were happy to see Mommy at church, huh?" (if D's body language seemed happy), followed with "and you seem sad now, right?" (again, only if that is what's going on). A validating approach could be: "Lots of kids are happy when they see their mom and sad when they don't. How do you feel about getting to see Mommy after lunch?" That could normalize that sure, she was glad to see Mom, felt sad to see Mom go, and you are helping her remember that she is seeing Mom again soon.

Thoughts?

I feel you. I definitely struggle with FOG when it comes to just doing something that I know will be perceived as an abandonment without her “permission.” But how do I enforce something more conceptual (like not accepting excessive blame/ownership) without explanation? She’ll keep pushing for me to take ownership and apologize until I do it no matter how much time I buy. The best I’ve been able to figure out so far is talking about these things when she’s calm and feeling safe, then I can kind of get through if I use the right language.

I think Kells makes some great points here and Kells also helped me to understand that boundaries don’t need to be discussed or explained in advance. In my case my wife had many crazy rules like feeling resentful if I had more showers than her (this was during the covid lockdown what else was there to do?!) To keep the peace I was trying to do things by her rules but then I slowly started breaking all the rules. I found if I could execute it confidently sometimes she didn’t even question it. It is a lot like dealing with a child. Your child asks for a cookie and you say no. “But whyyyyyy???????” They whine and you respond with an explanation “it’s dinner time soon so you don’t want to be too full up to eat”. They repeat, “But whyyyyy??????” “Because it’s healthy to eat a balanced diet not just a ton of sugar.” “But whyyyyy???” This could go on for hours if you keep trying to explain and justify to them the many reasons you said no. There is no point in the discussion. I was stunned to somehow realise I’d missed this when I have worked with children for many years. But of course my wife always had far more control over me..

Hi Joaquin,

Glad that disengaging temporarily sounds do-able. It can be nice to find something do-able when we're coping with a pwBPD.

Good question. I'll share my perspective.

Sometimes we have a perception of boundaries/limits, that the way to get a limit to work is to clarify it to the other person, or to share our new views on it with the other person, or to find a better explanation of it to the other person, or to remind them of our limit.

I have found that trying to operate at that level with a pwBPD (explaining emotional health topics to them / reminding them of an agreement about what's healthy) rarely goes well.

pwBPD have intense emotional limitations. It sounds so normal to plan out -- "OK, so I have reminded her NOT to blame me or give me ownership of her emotions, so that should help her remember, so she should have some awareness, so we can move forward". I suspect that the emotional limitations connected to her mental illness do not allow her to operate that way, even though you and I could probably mostly operate that way.

I think it may be frustrating to you to hope that you can remind her about what you can handle, and that that will go okay or be effective. Maybe it could, though  I think there could be a more effective path forward.

We can get a better handle on limits/boundaries and what's in our control if we understand that our boundaries require no announcement, explanation, or clarification to others, and require nobody else's participation, memory, or agreement.

I hear you bringing up your emotional limitations in a few threads. It's good that you're seeing that with clear eyes -- you can't emotionally carry it all.

You don't need her to agree with you, remember anything, participate, cooperate, or agree, for you to carry out your own boundary. And it won't require explanation.

It could look like:

"I'm overwhelmed right now; I'm going to take a shower [take a walk, get a drink, go to the store], and I'll be back in 45 minutes."

I also hear that you would like to include empathy and/or validation. So, if those are your values, it could look like:

"This sounds important to you and I want to be at my best to listen to you. I feel overwhelmed right now, so I'm going to take a break and check back in with you by text in an hour."

or

"It means a lot that you would share XYZ with me. I want to give that the thought it deserves, so I'm going to take some alone time to think about it. I'll touch base with you at 5pm tonight."

Notice that none of those approaches require that you explicitly clarify "what you won't accept". They're about you doing your boundary, not discussing your boundary, and I think that's key. Raising the topic of "what you won't accept" can inadvertently frame your boundary as something that's up for discussion... when it's not.

What do you think it'd be like for you to try refraining from clarifying/explaining, and moving towards doing?