What if my replacement KEEPS her happy

[Depression = 72% of members]

Thank you Dutched. What do you mean by attachment style vs. alpha male. I can see a doormat getting stuck in the fog for years never leaving (self esteem issues) even thou she keeps pushing limits and taking advantage holding the power strings. However, it would be encouraging to know that James Dean and George Clooney would eventually get split black. You know what I mean?

Glad to be of any help!  makes my day

Short: there is no alpha male in humans, so yes James and George too, as they didn’t cause it.
Women also like and appreciate that soft, feminine side of men (don’t you ladies)  

In psychology 4 styles are described:
= 1 secure attachment
= 2 anxious- ambivalent attachment
= 3 anxious-avoidant attachment
= 4 disorganised/disoriented attachment


Without trying to explain these styles:
It could be that Style 1 matches with 3. Style 1 (secure, confident) pulling 3 into a more secure style in time
Having style 2 together with 3, well, both partners have an anxious style.

Have a look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory

Mentioned is John Bowlby’s  book “Attachment theory” which is seen as the reference in psychology.

A last one, which is in a sense breath taking, as you will see exactly what happens in a r/s when one pushes the other away. An experiment by Dr. Edward Tronick.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0     notice the change at 1:00 min.

Now to challenge you, us, as I was challenged by seeing this.
See the mother as the pwBPD, the sudden mood change, the coldness.
See the baby as us here… what is that baby doing? What did we do

Despite being in that r/s for 30+ yrs., no I have never been a doormat, nor that ‘alpha’.
Yes, I was with a very high functioning woman, then the process almost unnoticeable worsens. Dormant for years, triggered again after the death of her father, triggered more with kids, full blown at ca. 40 when femal hormones begins to change, the pre memopause and (as in men) that so called midlife crisis.

That is also part of the explanation that so many relatively stable relationships at midlife and after being decades together are broken up in a blink of an eye. Many as described also on this Board.

And really, don’t forget  the spectrum of the Cluster B disorder.

[Dutched]

Thank you Dutched. What do you mean by attachment style vs. alpha male. I can see a doormat getting stuck in the fog for years never leaving (self esteem issues) even thou she keeps pushing limits and taking advantage holding the power strings. However, it would be encouraging to know that James Dean and George Clooney would eventually get split black. You know what I mean?

Glad to be of any help!  makes my day

Short: there is no alpha male in humans, so yes James and George too, as they didn’t cause it.
Women also like and appreciate that soft, feminine side of men (don’t you ladies)  

In psychology 4 styles are described:
= 1 secure attachment
= 2 anxious- ambivalent attachment
= 3 anxious-avoidant attachment
= 4 disorganised/disoriented attachment


Without trying to explain these styles:
It could be that Style 1 matches with 3. Style 1 (secure, confident) pulling 3 into a more secure style in time
Having style 2 together with 3, well, both partners have an anxious style.

Have a look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory

Mentioned is John Bowlby’s  book “Attachment theory” which is seen as the reference in psychology.

A last one, which is in a sense breath taking, as you will see exactly what happens in a r/s when one pushes the other away. An experiment by Dr. Edward Tronick.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0     notice the change at 1:00 min.

Now to challenge you, us, as I was challenged by seeing this.
See the mother as the pwBPD, the sudden mood change, the coldness.
See the baby as us here… what is that baby doing? What did we do

Despite being in that r/s for 30+ yrs., no I have never been a doormat, nor that ‘alpha’.
Yes, I was with a very high functioning woman, then the process almost unnoticeable worsens. Dormant for years, triggered again after the death of her father, triggered more with kids, full blown at ca. 40 when femal hormones begins to change, the pre memopause and (as in men) that so called midlife crisis.

That is also part of the explanation that so many relatively stable relationships at midlife and after being decades together are broken up in a blink of an eye. Many as described also on this Board.

And really, don’t forget  the spectrum of the Cluster B disorder.

[swimjim]

Thank you Dutched. What do you mean by attachment style vs. alpha male. I can see a doormat getting stuck in the fog for years never leaving (self esteem issues) even thou she keeps pushing limits and taking advantage holding the power strings. However, it would be encouraging to know that James Dean and George Clooney would eventually get split black. You know what I mean?

Glad to be of any help!  makes my day

Short: there is no alpha male in humans, so yes James and George too, as they didn’t cause it.
Women also like and appreciate that soft, feminine side of men (don’t you ladies)  

In psychology 4 styles are described:
= 1 secure attachment
= 2 anxious- ambivalent attachment
= 3 anxious-avoidant attachment
= 4 disorganised/disoriented attachment


Without trying to explain these styles:
It could be that Style 1 matches with 3. Style 1 (secure, confident) pulling 3 into a more secure style in time
Having style 2 together with 3, well, both partners have an anxious style.

Have a look at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory

Mentioned is John Bowlby’s  book “Attachment theory” which is seen as the reference in psychology.

A last one, which is in a sense breath taking, as you will see exactly what happens in a r/s when one pushes the other away. An experiment by Dr. Edward Tronick.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzXGEbZht0     notice the change at 1:00 min.

Now to challenge you, us, as I was challenged by seeing this.
See the mother as the pwBPD, the sudden mood change, the coldness.
See the baby as us here… what is that baby doing? What did we do

Despite being in that r/s for 30+ yrs., no I have never been a doormat, nor that ‘alpha’.
Yes, I was with a very high functioning woman, then the process almost unnoticeable worsens. Dormant for years, triggered again after the death of her father, triggered more with kids, full blown at ca. 40 when femal hormones begins to change, the pre memopause and (as in men) that so called midlife crisis.

That is also part of the explanation that so many relatively stable relationships at midlife and after being decades together are broken up in a blink of an eye. Many as described also on this Board.

And really, don’t forget  the spectrum of the Cluster B disorder.

Thank you very much Ditched. You have been a great help. Now I must come to believe my life will be better without her.

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

Replacement, another over used term on these boards.  If you date someone and you break up, you will be replaced.  It makes no difference if the person is mentally ill or mentally stable. When couples break up, no matter it middle school or octogenarians, there will be a replacement. If you find someone and are married for the rest of your lives, then, and only then, will you not be replaced.
It stinks to know you'll be replaced, but it's totally normal.  If you've ever broke up with someone, did you honestly wait, days, months, or even years before you found another significant other, just to make sure the dumped is OK? I doubt it. If you did, then God bless, but to expect that with every break up isn't normal. Lastly, have you made sure ALL your exes are ok before you replace them, all of them?

[swimjim]

Replacement, another over used term on these boards.  If you date someone and you break up, you will be replaced.  It makes no difference if the person is mentally ill or mentally stable. When couples break up, no matter it middle school or octogenarians, there will be a replacement. If you find someone and are married for the rest of your lives, then, and only then, will you not be replaced.
It stinks to know you'll be replaced, but it's totally normal.  If you've ever broke up with someone, did you honestly wait, days, months, or even years before you found another significant other, just to make sure the dumped is OK? I doubt it. If you did, then God bless, but to expect that with every break up isn't normal. Lastly, have you made sure ALL your exes are ok before you replace them, all of them?

Then I will refer to him as the new guy.

[swimjim]

Replacement, another over used term on these boards.  If you date someone and you break up, you will be replaced.  It makes no difference if the person is mentally ill or mentally stable. When couples break up, no matter it middle school or octogenarians, there will be a replacement. If you find someone and are married for the rest of your lives, then, and only then, will you not be replaced.
It stinks to know you'll be replaced, but it's totally normal.  If you've ever broke up with someone, did you honestly wait, days, months, or even years before you found another significant other, just to make sure the dumped is OK? I doubt it. If you did, then God bless, but to expect that with every break up isn't normal. Lastly, have you made sure ALL your exes are ok before you replace them, all of them?

Then I will refer to him as the new guy.

I think the term replacement is used frequently because BPD's view relationship partners as objects to satisfy their abandonment issues rather than humans with mature feelings.FOr example, the three year loves her Barbie doll until she gets tired of it and replaces it with new supply. I could be wrong but just my 2 cents.Replace, rinse, repeat,etc.

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

Are you saying you can read the mind of someone else? One thing I have learned is, don't ever try to think what someone else is thinking.  I understand the term replacement, however, your definition of replace, rinse, repeat. Those are all things you can control. Repeat? Only YOU can let someone repeat behavior.
Cutting and pasting is such a waste of space.

[swimjim]

I know what you mean ny. If you aren't in their life any longer, how would you know if they are repeating, right? It would have no significance to me. Kind of like, when the tree hits the ground and nobody is there to witness it, does it make a noise? 

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

SwimJim, I know you'll get through this.  I was dumped and painted black, by an ex-gf.  She dumped me, and blocked me on Facebook, and changed her number, or blocked mine, either one. I'm 47, she is 44. This break up happened 4 years ago, and I haven't heard a peep out of her.  We went to HS and fooled around in college. Our families have known each other's all our lives. It stinks, I think she is embarrassed by her behavior and that's why I don't hear from her. 
I think we like to think more highly of the exes, then what they really are. I'm 99% over this girl. The one percent that I still struggle with is that, we're not friends or even acquaintances. It's an odd thing, to think that she chose burning bridges over friends.

[Fr4nz]

My 2 cents.

1 month after the breakup she found a new guy; seemingly, this guy was the perfection, while I was full of defects. I felt like s**t, thinking I wasn't a good partner, and I had this doubt that the replacement was going to make her happy (mind that from a rational point of view I knew, from her past history, that she was very likely going to fail once more).

So, let 13 months pass, and I got to know that they broke up; not only this, their r/s was full of fights (like I experienced), she cheated on him multiple times (like I experienced) and, in the end, he left her (I was left).

All this just to say that we are not the cause of the failure of the r/s... .the disorder is. Give them enough time, they will always blow up everything at some point.

[married21years]

right!

it is not your job to make anyone happy!

it is your job to make you happy!

there is no lasting happiness in making others happy, work on making you happy and if they are along for the ride then so be it!

doing things for someone needs to be reciprocated or it end up being co dependent!

we need to be like the bar burning femi-nazi's  demanding everything and we need to demand we are happy of us!

so grab a pitch fork join the mob and demand to be happy 

[steelwork]

we need to be like the bar burning femi-nazi's  demanding everything and we need to demand we are happy of us!

I guess you mean "bra-burning"... .anyhow, though I appreciate your putting Rush Limbaugh's coinage "feminazis" in a positive light as people demanding and claiming happiness, but I hope you'll consider that many on this board are women, and many of the women and men here are proud feminists!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminazi

OP, it's such a struggle to get your head around this--I know. It's not an ordinary moving-on process, and even if it were, your feelings are totally understandable.

[married21years]

we need to be like the bar burning femi-nazi's  demanding everything and we need to demand we are happy of us!  

meant to be tongue in cheek  

but we all know the type from the seventies. we all need to be more like that and stop putting our needs second  

[steelwork]

but we all know the type from the seventies. we all need to be more like that and stop putting our needs second  

Agreed!

[swimjim]

I think my main problem now is romanticizing the relationship or just thinking of the good times i.e. the fantasy. Where I am stuck is my memory of our fights has diminished. It seemed that the only topic we ever fought about was not getting engaged. We had only dated 5 months before she gave me the marriage ultimatum. When I didn't budge, she would back off in two week cycles but then always start an argument for not having a ring. She would say to me " I know 100% you are perfect for me, and I will marry you tomorrow. You are the one who is reserved therefore you must not fully love me".  I tried to convince her that I loved her but I wanted her to relax and enjoy the dating process and it would naturally lead us to the alter. I wanted to see that she loved me and not te fantasy of being married to anyone. I think she was getting family pressure that I would never marry her and that I was using her. She was in a hurry. I had been married before and know it takes hard work. She had never been married and tried to trap a previous boyfriend by getting pregnant on purpose. He would not marry her and she had herself and her parents raise the child without a father. The only thing I remember us fighting about was not getting married. I don't remember fighting about other things. It haunts me to think that if I would have given her what she truly wanted, she would always be happy. Now someone else has finally done that for her. 

[Xstang77]

Swimjim I saw your comment earlier today and i want to reach out about something I usually don't like sharing due to pain and embarrassment but I feel your unfairly sitting in guilt and that's not a good place to be because I cycle from guilt to anger where I'm at now so here's my story about getting engaged to mine... about 6 months into our relationship her issues and insecurities started to arise and she kept pushing to get engaged etc. so on Christmas of 2014 I engaged to her using my grandmothers ring which she then said wasn't good enough so I bought her her own ring,then it turned into you only did it so I wouldn't leave etc, then a month later since there was more commitment things got more touchy and one night she said out of the blue all casual "I think we should call off the engagement because it's making things harder,I was hurt and she acted like it was nothing but we continued on. Then on Valentine's Day she had started going to the bar more with her friends and I brought her home flowers and chocolates etc, she barely cared and said she's going out with her friends and left the flowers and engagement ring on the table and went out and came home early hours in the morning drunk as a skunk almost having frost bite and I helped save her hands from it,a month later she leaves then comes back for a recycle and asks about the ring etc, the another recycle she comes back and just wears the ring around to make her feel more secure and during all these recycles I sit here alone with an engagement ring. Finally this past 4th of July she posts new pictures with the second replacement in a month not even 4 days after trying to initiate a recycle and being intimate with me,I finally had enough and drove to the river and threw in the ring and wouldn't you know that sucker didn't sink,just floated down the river,it figures . So my point is if you would have been engaged to her it would have just given her a deeper level into your soul as a way to hurt you,these people if you give them an inch they take a mile.be grateful as hard as it may be that you dodged a bullet and weren't a fool like me repeatedly sitting alone and heartbroken with a ring.

[bunny4523]

Unless these people really hit rock bottom, and are committed to seeking help, they don't get better. The only way the seem "happier" with someone else, is if the person they end up with has zero self esteem, or they themselves need very little in a relationship: in other words, two very broken people fitting together. A friend told me about that years ago, and now I finally get it. I don't want to become broken enough, or subvert my needs enough to stay with him.

Tu shay - or if the new partner is as unhealthy as he/she is... .that's the only way I can see that relationship continue to go round and round.  Which isn't my definiton of "working".  It's just two people so messed up crossing over each other's boundaries and one of them finally crushes the other.

[anonymous1234]

I often wonder, will she keep her husband painted white if he upsets her and they fight? Will she try harder to make it work since she is now married, or will the devaluation begin?

Well, probably, the same will happen. Knowing what I know now, I can understand the behaviour of mine beter after the fact. She painted him black as hell, despite being married to him, when the r/s was unstable at best. During the r/s with her I never really understood why she would be with such a loser.

Well, trust me, now I understand. She painted him black as **** towards me and he had no spine or intelligence at all (I helped her with the divorce, I saw the letters he wrote, the poor guy wasn't that smart to say the least). An easy victim. Now mine has moved on with one of my ex best friends, a guy with low self esteem and very little experience with women. Although I've been too accommodating and understandig, he will be much worse in that regard. Another easy victim as well.

Long story short, even marriage will fail, in this case within 1.5 years. I scratched my head too many times during my r/s with her, now I know this should raise an alarm in the future. You'll learn to take better care of yourself, that's the positive side.

And still, I'm the schmuck missing her like hell. Who's stupid now .

[swimjim]

Thanks mustang, bunny and anonymous for your replies. It means a lot. I struggle now with self esteem. I have self doubt. Part of me wants to know if she is unhappy but then... .Too afraid to find out she is happy. So here I am in limbo. I'm focusing on myself and trying to take care of me but I feel stuck. I hope my gut instinct was right. Very painful experience. I saw a woman at my health club that looked just like her. She had a wedding ring on her finger. I immediately felt attracted to her. I wonder what is wrong with me.

[anonymous1234]

Why would you feel damned? A lot of things still remind my of my ex, not in the least all the stuff that we bought together for our/my house. There is no shame in that, you loved her, and that can run deep if you let it.  After three months I'm still tense when I'm in the city center, afraid I'm going to run into them.

The difficult thing for me is this, she was a complete paradox to me. She has given me my most happy moments in my life and the worst moments (along with that friend of mine). I'm about half way through I guess, it just takes a lot of time to let it all sink in. Letting that go isn't easy and it takes time.

The truth of the matter is this, it doesn't matter if she's happy with him or not. For the moment, mine is or is at least trying to keep up appearances, but knowing what he and she did is enough for me to realize that it can't work in the long run, the lack of trust will be stronggggg. And even if it does, great for her, she'll be happy, that's something I'd like to see.

I'm just hoping she is not coming by with feelings of remorse while I'm not fully healed.

My worst scenario, probably fueling a sort of co-dependency: it took me 4,5 years to find a girl I liked this much and not because of a lack of trying (dated a lot). Although I can take care of myself I'm just praying it won't take another 4,5 years to find a functional r/s This sort of self doubt is normal I guess in these first phases.

Have patience.

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

I think what you're going through is normal. I hope you have sought therapy.  You don't need it forever, just about 2 months of weekly and 3 months of once a month. Seek it if you haven't.  I can tell you did everything you could, and trust me that hurts, knowing it wasn't reciprocated. I think you should look at her, basically begging you to marry her as a huge red flag.  What it tells me is that you would have figured out she's nuts and eventually, you would have ended it.  She needed to get hitched so fast, so you or any other guy she dates doesn't get to know the real her. What better way to hide it than get married and then it's a divorce. Be happy my man, your head is on straight.

[Xstang77]

Just keep strong man,I hope my difficult story shared some insight,try to be happy you didn't devote that level of being engaged/married to her she would just use it as a weapon for further demise of you. I still regret proposing to her,it was my first and that's something that should be sacred and special with Someone who deserves it.

[swimjim]

Thanks stang and others. I was definitely ah humbling experience. This is a great support group.

[JerryRG]

My sponsor told me today to be grateful I'm not being bullied, lied to, controlled and misreable. It's been a while and I've forgotten just how horrible she was.

She still is all those things and one thing I know for a fact and I would bet my life on it. SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE!

She told me today my son didn't want to be with me, he's 2 years old. She's a mean, cold hearted person and again, SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE.

I can and I have

[rosesarered777]

If it helps at all, I got married to my BPD in February, moved down in mid-April, and by June-July she was already devaluing me. Instead of focusing on our marriage, she was focused it seems on her work and keeping herself happy.

So no, in my experiences, the marriage won't stop the devaluation process no matter what. She started the same old patterns even though for months prior to the wedding, she was happy for a very long stretch (December to February then said she was upset I wasn't there around March to April).

I am firmly convinced that the photos of her with a new guy whilst she is separated from me is a visual sham. She will devalue him, its just a matter of time as another author wrote on here. The clock is ticking. She may be triggered by Valentine's Day and hate his guts by Spring or early Summer. The patters seem pretty consistant.

[eprogeny]

Well... .chances are no one will keep her happy, but if you truly love someone you want them to be happy - even if it means with someone else. 

[gettingoverit]

HI,
This is a very common fear that you have. I think we have all felt the same as you at one point or another. The truth is it really doesn't matter. She treated YOU like crap. She discarded YOU for your best friend, which clearly shows her lack of boundaries or true love for YOU. Is this someone you would want to marry? Your replacement could be just as crazy as she is. Let them cannibalize each other. Either way, she is not your dream come true. Remember she is a con artist who will do and say whatever is necessary for her own survival, even if that includes convincing her targets to marry her. She has no concern for you, only what you can do for her. Never ever forget that. Even if you would have married her, that would have not been enough for her. People with BPD can not sustain any long term loving relationships without a lot of counselling, even then the odds are against you. You dodged a bullet, because even if you would have married her, she would have eventually replaced you anyway. It would have been just a matter of time.

[Duped 1]

. People with BPD can not sustain any long term loving relationships without a lot of counselling, even then the odds are against you. You dodged a bullet, because even if you would have married her, she would have eventually replaced you anyway. It would have been just a matter of time.

Yup!

[blueblue12]

My take on this after a ten year relationship. I was pushed into an engagement soon after moving in with her. Then later marriage. I went along. I thought it would make her happy after her terrible childhood. In my eyes I was the saviour. But in my experience it meant nothing! So I would say don't feel bad about the marriage bit that you didn't get to achieve. As others have point out, it would have not made any difference long term. It was just a quick fix at the time. I feel like everything I did for this woman was basically quick in the moment fixes, the next day it was forgotten and new things had to fixed! Never ending. I now realised I was exhausted at the end, but just kept on doing things for her. The last year which was horrible, she treated with so much disrespect and I became the doormat as in my heart I wanted so much to fix everything. I was the monster. I was as bad as her parents she repeatedly told me. She even asked me to write her and apology letter, I did, it didn't do anything, forgotten by the next day.

Terrible thing is after a couple of months breakup I do miss her, but by reading and going to a therapist I realise how everything was so wrong... .