How Do You Know...the Difference Between a BPD Diagnosis and Just a Bad Egg

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am currently outside of a relationship with a BPD after well over 13 years.  To say it was a roller coaster would be taking it lightly.   I was widowed prior to this relationship and this was not a good healing aid. In my prior marriage (he died from cancer), we had a good, balanced relationship without extreme high/lows.   I do know that I am capable of having (what I would call) a more balanced (normal?) relationship, but this one has taken its toll emotionally in many ways. 

Over the 13 years, it certainly wasn't all bad.  He had a different background than I (I lost dad very early in life, but had a wonderful mom).  I can accurately say that most if not all of the symptomatic behavior noted for BPD were prevalent in his behavior and mannerisms (abandonment issues; severe mood swings that didn't fit the environment; failed logic; a huge (HUGE) dose of victim mentality; criticizing others continually that he didn't even know; a lot of "you don't do anything for me" and "you don't care about me" that was so obviously untrue that even close family/friends thought it was odd when I would reach out for validation.   It was a very different picture to the outside then to the closest people to me (myself and a sister).   It was a very odd balance of controlling behavior with an equal amount of really poor self esteem/victim mentality.   It caused me (over the years) to live in a see-saw environment of my own anger in dealing with the odd controlling issues he had but also a large amount of pity because I cared for him with his erratic and unexplained self esteem/victim matters.  He had a terrible childhood, which I feel very badly for but cannot change other than provide my own support.   His mother is intolerable and he has been separated from her for over 10 years because she has the same behavioral issues.   He walked away from it because he could not deal with her over-the-top anger and controlling --- yet he doesn't seem to see the same behavior in himself.   His father is gone, but was known to be a very nice man that I think died from the stress of dealing with his mother's behavior.    I don't want to be him.    I have to add that there was a lot of good things too (75 % of the time) -- but the bad was so bad that it's hard to remember them.

I have read a lot in the time I have been on your website on the information available (a wealth of info) mainly so that I can come to terms with "what the hell just happened".    I guess I am here because giving 13 years to this roller coaster has taken its toll.    I am not making contact but he will occasionally text me with things I need to do or things I owe him.  It is even more erratic than it was at the end.   The last year of the relationship where I think he could likely tell that I was numb and overwhelmed was not good.   The years before that were pretty good with flare ups maybe every few months.   I just don't know if I understand all of the characteristics to know if this IS BPD or if I just made a bad choice of whom to have a relationship with.    As I said, he had a lot of good behavior earlier (kind, champion of the underdog, giving, funny... .hard working, etc) and I do miss that person very much -- but I don't see that person at all anymore.    He fits completely the description of the Jekyll and Hyde that is discussed in outside articles with the bad overtaking good/kind.   

I think I am trying to just find people who understand what it is like to be in and then out of this type of relationship and to even really understand if that is what is likely the cause for a lot of things I have been through but I still don't understand.  I am seeing a wonderful counselor just to talk through my support in getting through it and on... .but I kind of get the feeling that they don't seem to know a lot about BPD or just generalize his behavior as being unacceptable without considering a mental illness behind it.    Sometimes I wonder if people think that my concern of his mental health as being just something to soothe myself (as in, he must have something wrong mentally not to be here with wonderful me anymore).   That's not the case.   I do know that I did not use the methods mentioned in the 'how to have a better relationship with a BPD' because I just didn't get it or know about all of this prior.  I questioned my own sanity a lot the longer I was in this relationship.

The final straw was that he had injured himself - back (doing things that he knew he shouldn't do) and he had a complete and utter meltdown during this pain and medication induced timeframe about 5 mos ago.   The final straw was a major meltdown that started with him driving around on an over prescription of meds (he never takes meds on a regular basis and I had a serious concern of hurting himself or others while I was at work) to a major confrontation when he finally found his way home.   I told him he should stay home and take care of the back (we are both self-employed with our own companies and he could have taken off a year and not worried about things because of what I do and covered).   This led to a completely illogical meltdown that he had to work and all these things that were completely false statements.   This resulted in my going to another area to be away from the physical threat and led him to start a physical altercation with family members that had come to help me.   He, at that time, had already packed a lot of his things into the car to go, but to this day any conversation whatsoever ends in him angrily saying "you sent me to jail" as the only reason for the split that night.   No mention of his prior packing (he did this a lot over the years).   I finally had to call the cops because of the physical fight he started and him honestly taking  handguns/ammo out.   He holds ALL blame for that evening to me mostly (for calling cops) and the family members that he inflicted the physical altercation upon.   He blames everyone but himself and his own behavior and has a completely different recollection of the event even though our security camera system clearly shows the event as described.   It could not be more evident.  It was clearly awful and it was a horrible decision to have to make.   I thought he could have hurt us all.   He won't acknowledge the events of that night.   

I have read many people state very similar situations with the same result (the other party taking no responsibility whatsoever).   I had just had enough --- mental illness or not.   I can't fix someone who doesn't see or want to acknowledge a problem.   He thinks it is all me and there has been no discussion of the 13 years prior.   I don't see a path forward for either party other than where I am.   I apologize for the length of this cathartic explanation of why I'm here!        

[tlc232]

I am currently outside of a relationship with a BPD after well over 13 years.  To say it was a roller coaster would be taking it lightly.   I was widowed prior to this relationship and this was not a good healing aid. In my prior marriage (he died from cancer), we had a good, balanced relationship without extreme high/lows.   I do know that I am capable of having (what I would call) a more balanced (normal?) relationship, but this one has taken its toll emotionally in many ways. 

Over the 13 years, it certainly wasn't all bad.  He had a different background than I (I lost dad very early in life, but had a wonderful mom).  I can accurately say that most if not all of the symptomatic behavior noted for BPD were prevalent in his behavior and mannerisms (abandonment issues; severe mood swings that didn't fit the environment; failed logic; a huge (HUGE) dose of victim mentality; criticizing others continually that he didn't even know; a lot of "you don't do anything for me" and "you don't care about me" that was so obviously untrue that even close family/friends thought it was odd when I would reach out for validation.   It was a very different picture to the outside then to the closest people to me (myself and a sister).   It was a very odd balance of controlling behavior with an equal amount of really poor self esteem/victim mentality.   It caused me (over the years) to live in a see-saw environment of my own anger in dealing with the odd controlling issues he had but also a large amount of pity because I cared for him with his erratic and unexplained self esteem/victim matters.  He had a terrible childhood, which I feel very badly for but cannot change other than provide my own support.   His mother is intolerable and he has been separated from her for over 10 years because she has the same behavioral issues.   He walked away from it because he could not deal with her over-the-top anger and controlling --- yet he doesn't seem to see the same behavior in himself.   His father is gone, but was known to be a very nice man that I think died from the stress of dealing with his mother's behavior.    I don't want to be him.    I have to add that there was a lot of good things too (75 % of the time) -- but the bad was so bad that it's hard to remember them.

I have read a lot in the time I have been on your website on the information available (a wealth of info) mainly so that I can come to terms with "what the hell just happened".    I guess I am here because giving 13 years to this roller coaster has taken its toll.    I am not making contact but he will occasionally text me with things I need to do or things I owe him.  It is even more erratic than it was at the end.   The last year of the relationship where I think he could likely tell that I was numb and overwhelmed was not good.   The years before that were pretty good with flare ups maybe every few months.   I just don't know if I understand all of the characteristics to know if this IS BPD or if I just made a bad choice of whom to have a relationship with.    As I said, he had a lot of good behavior earlier (kind, champion of the underdog, giving, funny... .hard working, etc) and I do miss that person very much -- but I don't see that person at all anymore.    He fits completely the description of the Jekyll and Hyde that is discussed in outside articles with the bad overtaking good/kind.   

I think I am trying to just find people who understand what it is like to be in and then out of this type of relationship and to even really understand if that is what is likely the cause for a lot of things I have been through but I still don't understand.  I am seeing a wonderful counselor just to talk through my support in getting through it and on... .but I kind of get the feeling that they don't seem to know a lot about BPD or just generalize his behavior as being unacceptable without considering a mental illness behind it.    Sometimes I wonder if people think that my concern of his mental health as being just something to soothe myself (as in, he must have something wrong mentally not to be here with wonderful me anymore).   That's not the case.   I do know that I did not use the methods mentioned in the 'how to have a better relationship with a BPD' because I just didn't get it or know about all of this prior.  I questioned my own sanity a lot the longer I was in this relationship.

The final straw was that he had injured himself - back (doing things that he knew he shouldn't do) and he had a complete and utter meltdown during this pain and medication induced timeframe about 5 mos ago.   The final straw was a major meltdown that started with him driving around on an over prescription of meds (he never takes meds on a regular basis and I had a serious concern of hurting himself or others while I was at work) to a major confrontation when he finally found his way home.   I told him he should stay home and take care of the back (we are both self-employed with our own companies and he could have taken off a year and not worried about things because of what I do and covered).   This led to a completely illogical meltdown that he had to work and all these things that were completely false statements.   This resulted in my going to another area to be away from the physical threat and led him to start a physical altercation with family members that had come to help me.   He, at that time, had already packed a lot of his things into the car to go, but to this day any conversation whatsoever ends in him angrily saying "you sent me to jail" as the only reason for the split that night.   No mention of his prior packing (he did this a lot over the years).   I finally had to call the cops because of the physical fight he started and him honestly taking  handguns/ammo out.   He holds ALL blame for that evening to me mostly (for calling cops) and the family members that he inflicted the physical altercation upon.   He blames everyone but himself and his own behavior and has a completely different recollection of the event even though our security camera system clearly shows the event as described.   It could not be more evident.  It was clearly awful and it was a horrible decision to have to make.   I thought he could have hurt us all.   He won't acknowledge the events of that night.   

I have read many people state very similar situations with the same result (the other party taking no responsibility whatsoever).   I had just had enough --- mental illness or not.   I can't fix someone who doesn't see or want to acknowledge a problem.   He thinks it is all me and there has been no discussion of the 13 years prior.   I don't see a path forward for either party other than where I am.   I apologize for the length of this cathartic explanation of why I'm here!        

[Mutt]

Hi tlc232,



You’re looking for answers and trying to sort out the last 15 years. My T didn’t want to talk about BPD specifics he just said that are probably has a mental illness of some sort. He went through something similar he said that his firsts wife probably had OCD.

BPD is complicated the acting out is usually behind closed doors so a lot of people don’t see it. Intimacy is what triggers the behaviours. Another thing is that a P won’t diagnose someone that’s not there in the office with them.

We can’t give a diagnosis only a professional can do that what we can look at are traits. A lot of the members have owBPD that are sub clinical from what Skip says. BPD is also a spectrum disorder so it’s different with every pwBPD some are high functioning and some are lower functioning.

Read as much as you can about BPD depersonalize the behaviours and become Indifferent to them.

BPD? How can I know?

How long have you separated?

[tlc232]

I'll take the OCD over BPD!   

About 4 months now -- he is now known to close family members as Jekyll/Hyde.   I actually heard from Jekyll today, which is quite unusual.   It seems that the more I detach and don't care, the more normal his behavior becomes. 

Thank you for the info -- One of the biggest things that I don't understand is why so many seem to want to fix or go back to a relationship with someone who is so difficult to be with or to be distraught.   Isn't starting over in this type of instance a healthier path forward?  I find that confusing and was surprised to see a lot of those feelings.   

The other confusing thing is how anyone gets the BPD to recognize that they have this issue.   I don't see that being something that would readily happen in my situation.   

[SlyQQ]

This is extremely difficult to unravel if you do not know what to look for,

common cross wires are

high functioning Aspergers

PTSD

Bi Polar with comorbid issues ( especially abandonment )

Even dissacociative identity disorder,

this is compounded by the fact their therapists ( if they are seeing one ) won't tell you what they think

( half the time they won't even tell the patient )

but it is easy to tell just difficult to explain

perhaps to separate out some issues  to look for

Denial  ( helps rule out ptsd )

magical thinking ( helps rule out aspergers )

abandonment issues  

and back flips  (helps with bipolar)  especially if they are linked together.

With DID you will generally not find all of the above occuring simultaneously and other tell tales for DID will be apparent

[tlc232]

A lot of me is not wanting to know because it is so painful to deal with him (between my anger at how he treated me to the sadness - in some ways - if he is mentally ill) that I just want to pretend he never existed.   He continually drops in and throws a bomb to get me mad (like not allowing me access to get some remaining things in storage that are personal from my late family) and I can't stand it.    I know I did not deserve what I am getting, and I think it's a bunch of things (his doctor called him PTSD for years and we laughed, but I'm not laughing anymore).   There are days I wake up and feel bad and many others that I think I am honestly being played.   I am sure that is not news to anyone here, but it doesn't make it any easier to be functioning.

I'm trying to disassociate without him going Glenn Close, if that makes sense.   I can't deal with it and the level of mean is completely new to me and my background.     It's getting worse - not better.   

[Jeffree]

BPD or bad egg, this doesn't sound like a person you need in your life any longer.

I know the thinking can be that if he's a bad egg there's a better chance to constructively work with him toward the end game in your relationship than if he is BPD.

However, I think there are bad eggs who can act really bad at times, and there are BPDs who can act fairly normal at times. Like I like to say, "Nobody can be crazy all of the time." That's not how it works.

There are plenty of people on here with vast experience trying to negotiate a separation with a BPD. I suspect you will find that you will have to diligently take actions on your behalf that you're not comfortable with to get everything you need to move on.

Good luck! We are all here for you.

J

[bus boy]

HI, that's a good question, one I have asked my self often times. Xw and I had an assessment done and she scored very high on the tests for having a personality disorder of some kind and I was officially diagnosed as codependent as a result of the tests. Xw is very high functioning, very organized, had a good job for 20 years, nice house, everything that society sees as a normal functioning life, she doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, doesn't do drugs but behind closed doors she is very emotionally abusive, and belittling, no grey area what so ever, a vicious lier and manipulator. In family court her lies were horrible, in life she denied any abuse ever took place, she justifies her denial of abuse by saying it never happened because the courts believed her lies and agreed she was not abusive so she says the abuse never happened because the judge believed her. Xw physically assaulted my sister, Xw got on the stand and under oath twisted everything back on my sister, Xw pretty much repeated my sisters affadavid on the stand in court. Something clearly is wrong with xw's behaviour but I don't know if she has BPD or is just a bad egg. Xw's father is a street angel kitchen devil, nicest guy you will ever meet until you look at him cross ways, he's a sneaky bad lier maybe it's in the genes, what's in the ram is in the lamb.

[Speck]

I agree with Jeffree. Whether your X has BPD or is simply a bad egg, his not being in your life (in a close intimate relationship anymore) is probably for the best... .

... .for YOU.

Although the demise of a long-term relationship is crazy painful, it must be done, and then healthily processed in order to move on.

My uBPDw left me after an eight year marriage (together ten), and although the nature of her walking out was painful, shocking, abrupt, etc., deep down, I felt immense relief because it was the FOURTH time that she did it, and this last event (Nov 2017) had just morphed into CrazyTown for me. It was almost like I gave myself permission to finally get off the rollercoaster with her.

She walked out, and I've got my life back. Nice trade.

I wish you the best. Keep writing, if it helps.


-Speck

[tlc232]

Bus Boy - That makes me feel oddly better!  Not in a misery loves company way as much as knowing that many people have similar pasts and have been through it and made it.  I have read so many people saying they were trying to get back to this person that I did question why I was trying to pave a path away.  

On the lying -- do you think they know that they are lying or does the illness cause them to think that they are being truthful?   I am surprised that you got her to go in to counseling with you.   About a year ago, I found out that he was going to see a therapist without even mentioning that he was getting counseling.   After 13 years, that was a sign.   I thought he needed it (don't we all?) but why would it be in secret?  

I'm sorry you went through what you went through -- that's a lot.   How many years were you together?   How do you feel now?

[tlc232]

Speck -- can I guess that after all of this you went out and looked up symptoms online and found your way here?   Did you have any idea that something wasn't right at the start and it just drug on?

What I can't really understand is that he really appears to have no support system.  Not a real one.  No family he is close to.  He has friends, but you know how that is -- not the kind that are there in any storm friends.   I do, but his were more people he heard from when THEY needed something.   It makes me feel bad, but not bad enough to give up my sanity.

I have to ask everyone out there --- how do I know what these acronyms mean?    I know BPD, of course, but a lot of the others, I am getting here/there, but not all. 

Thank you!

[Speck]

Speck -- can I guess that after all of this you went out and looked up symptoms online and found your way here?

Yes.  That's exactly what happened.  

Did you have any idea that something wasn't right at the start and it just drug on?

I just could not reconcile how a woman whom I have treated with the utmost care and respect for 10 years could keep finding reasons why she needed to abruptly leave the marriage. Honestly, the last time she bolted, it appeared that she was pulling reasons out of thin air... .just really bogus stuff.  It didn't make sense.

I first thought that my wife was suffering with Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome, or Grass-is-Always-Greener Syndrome, or simply a run of the mill Midlife Crisis.  Each time she would lose her crap, blow up, blame me for basically being "too needy", and then rashly walk out of the marriage under the most confusing reasons.  And... .each time, I gave her a lot of space to sort that out and then she would "recycle" me (but I did not know that was what she was doing at the time).  But, no... .WAWS, GIGS, or a MLC would not explain the other behavior my wife exhibited throughout our whole relationship, such as:

• * The lack of self awareness
  * The inability to make a plan and stick to it
  * The god-awful messiness
  * The hateful blow-ups with foul language directed at me
  * The slammed doors in my face
  * The mixed messages between recycles
  * The nasty run-down to her circle of friends and family about me - without cause
  * The lack of truly intimate moments, sex was mostly mechanical
  * The push-pull BS
  * The lack of self-direction
  * The learned helplessness
  * The need for 12 hours sleep/night
  * The willingness to let me do all the heavy lifting

And this is just an abbreviated list! But, anyway, the above coupled with 4 abrupt discards of me led me here to bpdfamily, and it is here that I have found the answers to all the confusing questions I've had for over a decade about my uBPDw.  

{As an aside, I am so grateful to ALL who have contributed to my education, here at bpdfamily.  Thank you so much for giving so freely of your time.}

What I can't really understand is that he really appears to have no support system.  Not a real one.  No family he is close to.  He has friends, but you know how that is -- not the kind that are there in any storm friends.   I do, but his were more people he heard from when THEY needed something.   It makes me feel bad, but not bad enough to give up my sanity.

Amen, sister! What and who is on his ranch is his and what and who is on your ranch is yours.

I have to ask everyone out there --- how do I know what these acronyms mean?    I know BPD, of course, but a lot of the others, I am getting here/there, but not all.

Is this what you mean? I found this useful:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0



Take good care of you.

-Speck