I served exuBPDw because she broke court order she retaliates and serves me

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Maybe you can communicate with her and ask her if she will meet with you for as long as she feels comfortable. Just listen -- tell her you miss her, ask her what pronoun she wants to be known by and ask her if it's ok you might forget sometimes as you get used to things changing. Has she thought about changing her name? Does she want you to read something?

This is excellent advice.

[hope2727]

Maybe you can communicate with her and ask her if she will meet with you for as long as she feels comfortable. Just listen -- tell her you miss her, ask her what pronoun she wants to be known by and ask her if it's ok you might forget sometimes as you get used to things changing. Has she thought about changing her name? Does she want you to read something?

This is excellent advice.

[livednlearned]

Know your local suicide crisis lines, kids help line etc and have the numbers in your phone. The Kids help line is 24 hour now. They offer all kinds of support. There is even a text service in some areas. Take the ASSIST training. ITs available in lots of areas. https://www.suicideinfo.ca/workshop/asist/

That's a great resource, hope2727. Thanks for posting it here.

Mutt, another one that you might want to share with D12 is https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

SD21 spent a lot of time there and it really helped her. She listed it as an important resource for a friend's D13 who is going through something similar to D12.

Suicidal ideation is a big concern in the trans community

[Mutt]

Hmm... .offhand that doesn't seem like good thing for him to be present for... .

I don't think that it is a good idea either.

So... .for clarity... .is there a written document from the daycare.

No there is no document they don't have a good reason to not take him he doesn't cause issues at the daycare, they have to have a good reason to reject them because if they don't then I can go to the licensee board and complain and they don't want that.

I think the more you present her issues, "inside" of your solutions... .the more unreasonable she may look.

It's a pretty black and white line already she shouldn't take the law into her own hands.

Eventually if became a mission to find free stuff and both kids got really into it. There were lots of pools and other places the had free evenings or free afternoons and man they did it all. It really was fun and they had such a great time together. It continued on into the winter. They went skating at all the public parks in the city that winter with a thermos of hot chocolate. Cost of gas and cocoa. They would discuss at length the best and worst outdoor rinks (all free admission). The went sledding on all the pubic hills. They went to ice carving festivals and everything they could find. Older child came right along. No pressure no invitation just dad and younger kid off having a blast and of course older kid was welcome. Bring a friend if you like. That kind of thing.

It was quite the relationship builder and he lost a ton of weight just walking around. He said the secret was to shut up and let his little guy lead.

Things are good I have another issue I'm dealing with, liking two women at the same time it's complicated  When I was single I wanted to be in a r/s now I almost wish that I was single again it's tough but it's a topic for another discussion.

Back to the topic at hand that's a really good suggestion S10 just got a big brother recently we had applied three years ago and they email me free and cheap things that they can do around the city that's stuff I can do to. Thanks for taking the time this morning before work.

Mutt, another one that you might want to share with D12 is https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

SD21 spent a lot of time there and it really helped her. She listed it as an important resource for a friend's D13 who is going through something similar to D12.

Suicidal ideation is a big concern in the trans community

Thank you livednlearned I'll check that out, I also want to thank everyone in this thread that share - you have all been huge help.

[hope2727]

Hey Mutt just got in the door. I am glad you like the suggestions. I am also glad you are dating. I've pretty much abandoned all hope . I know two other people who did the do everything free thing. One is my sister who raised two amazing kids on zero budget. They scoured newspaper columns and the internet and got everything from swimming lessons to a play structure free. It wasn't always about the money it was about the experience too. I think your son might enjoy the activities and your daughter will hear about them 2nd hand and think hmmmmmm maybe i am mission gout on al the fun and come join you. Besides its just a challenge that begs a team approach to having an amazing summer.


Now do tell about the women? Enquiring minds want to know. 

[Mutt]

Besides its just a challenge that begs a team approach to having an amazing summer.

I like how you look at it that way.

Now do tell about the women? Enquiring minds want to know.  

 

I created a new thread here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327515.0

I'll add more later the woman that i've been with for awhile wanted to check something on my phone last night and she jokingly said that I'll check your texts then I said I don't want to give you my phone she was trying hard to get me to give up my phone I told her that it's a matter of privacy I don't share email or phone passwords with girlfriends.

She kept texting me up until 11PM last night, I left her house at 930 and she started texting me this morning about this again it aggravates her when she doesn't get a response from me. She's angry and hurt and was lashing out at me.

She was giving me a hard time if I told her what she wanted to know then she would give me a really hard time.

On another note I finally got a text from D12 she's asking if I went back to your house what changes would you make?

[livednlearned]

I finally got a text from D12 she's asking if I went back to your house what changes would you make?

It's a good question.

The dueling women situation can't be making any of this easier for you to concentrate.

What would bring some peace to you at the moment, of the things you have control over?

[Mutt]

I get the kids this weekend that will help me to make my mind off of things I could ask the other two I need some space for a few days.

Im thinking that I should answer this after our court date Monday. My D12 was looking through my dirty dishes the last time and was looking for a sharp object to report it back to mom. I know mom I was being manipulative but I wonder if that text is going to go back to uBPDexw

[kells76]

Hi Mutt, I've been following your thread here for a bit. Tough stuff.

I finally got a text from D12 she's asking if I went back to your house what changes would you make?

This is really interesting. Seems positive -- like if she didn't care, she wouldn't be dialoging with you.

How do you think it would go if you said something like "You're thinking about changes at home, huh? What kind of stuff is on your mind?"

... .instead of right off the bat saying "I'm going to do X, Y, and Z", and D12 is like, "Well, I wanted A and B, and you're so insensitive, you should have known".

This might keep the focus on her and how she feels. Let me know what you think... .

kells76

[hope2727]

Mutt your daughter's question is an excellent sign. Maybe ask her what changes she thinks would be most helpful and supportive? That way you can hear her ideas and validate her experience without necessarily agreeing but maybe gaining some understanding.

[livednlearned]

kells76 makes a really good point.

The question does have a hint of something else to it... .

Asking a validating question in return like hope2727 suggests may be the best way to put responsibility back on D12 (BPD mom if that's the case) so that you are participating in her care without making promises that box you in.

[Mutt]

I followed your suggestion kells76, I don’t get point number 1 I don’t swear in front of the kids and I don’t raise my voice at them sometimes they give me a hard time and I have raised it but I’m not abusive  towards them and I don’t alienate the kids maybe she means invalidate? This sounds like it’s coming from uBPDexw and not D12. This is the text verbatim.

Well 1. You’re ver y verbally abusive and that needs to change, 2. You have show some respect to me, 3. You have to refer to me properly and you need to realize that I’m your son not your daughter and if you can’t realize that then I don’t want you in my life, 4. You need to stop alienating me

[livednlearned]

"Would you be willing to work with me on these points, one at a time?"

If she says ok. Start with 1.

"Help me understand when you feel verbally abused. Can you give me an example? That will help me reflect on a specific instance so I can learn from it."

Put the responsibility on her to do the work she is insisting that you do, without knowing what it is you specifically did or said.

You also aren't agreeing that you are verbally abusive (no validating the invalid)

Be prepared to not like her response... .

The goal is to have her feel safe enough to come spend time with you.

And carefully create a text chain in which you are impeccably supportive and validating toward D12.

[formflier]

I had to do this some yesterday when S15 got a bit emotional.  He started saying always and never... and all that about "they way I was/am".  

Granted... this was in person, so a bit easier than text.  I think I said something like... "I see... .please help point me to an example... "  and was quiet for a while.  (note... I could have done a lot better with the words... best I could do in the moment)

My "big picture" was to listen.

At the end of the day... .he was upset about his phone privileges being restricted and wanted to stop working.  Nothing came of it (no examples).


So... .relating this back to Mutt's situation.

What do you think your daughter "wants" or what is the "underlying issue"?

FF

[kells76]

Hey again Mutt, hope you're having a good weekend... .

Everything LnL just wrote is exceptionally good advice. This is because following it would mean you begin to "rewrite the narrative".

My guess is that most of what your D12 texted is "the narrative" about you, which most likely comes from her mom. "Mutt is verbally abusive. Mutt doesn't respect Mom (translated into D12). Mutt doesn't "realize" my assertions and so should get out of my life. Mutt is the one alienating the kids."

Ok. There are two main ways to counter "the narrative" about you. One is like boxing -- face it and hit back: "I never verbally abuse you! You are so disrespectful and manipulative. Stay with your mom until you can learn to listen and obey."

This is rarely successful as I'm sure you know.

The other way is like jiu-jitsu: roll with it and use the power they think they have "against" them (you're not really "against" your kid, but you get the picture): "Oh no, I can imagine that would feel awful if you felt like I was verbally abusing you. Tell me about a time when you felt that way... .I want to hear what you have to say."

Do you see how doing option 2 counters the very assertion your kid is making? If you were REALLY verbally abusive, wouldn't you be doing that -- instead of inviting criticism?

At some level the disconnect will hit her, though it may take repetition: "Mom says Dad is verbally abusive, but he isn't right now, so, huh... ."

Your D12 sounds straight out of this article by Dr Craig Childress -- not sure if you've seen it before, so here's the link:

www.drcachildress.org/asp/admin/getFile.asp?RID=63&TID=6&FN=pdf

I have a few thoughts about the safety plan, too, but I need to save that for a new reply

[formflier]

instead of inviting criticism?

Small point here... but if you were ever going to make this point to you child... you are "inviting understanding".  It may or may not be critical.

Filling in knowledge gaps:  A few years ago I did some family therapy.  The big point the therapist was making is that "knowledge" is much less important to a child/parent relationship than the "safety" and/or "the feeling".

Many times a kid will have a point of view that you KNOW if they had the full picture... .they would change it.

Much better to listen... get the facts right... and "be there" with your kid in that moment and file away the "knowledge gap" for the future.

Then... .in a day or two "Hey bud... .remember we were talking about (fill in the blank)... .you know, I've been thinking about it and I wonder how that would seem to you if (insert knowledge).  (pause... see if they want to chat now)  "listen bud... .no rush, think it over... we'll talk more later."

Let them connect the dots.

FF

[kells76]

if you were ever going to make this point to you child... you are "inviting understanding".  It may or may not be critical.

Good point.

file away the "knowledge gap" for the future.

Another really good point. It can feel so urgent to "get the truth out there" when the kids are mistaken about something. It may be wise to resist that urge and give them a day or two to feel safe and heard. Then, when emotions are back down to a 2 from an 8, try what FF suggested.

---------------------

Some additional thoughts on the safety plan.

This is very interesting:

The last time that D12 was here she checked the dishes that I had by the sink and found a knife I got an email back from my exuBPDw saying that the house isn’t safe

I find it fascinating that when D12 found a knife, she didn't SH. Curious, huh?

What would it be like if instead of playing defense with the safety plan and Mom, you "saw her and raised her one"?

Could you remind me if Mom has shared the specific details of the Mom's house safety plan with you? If so, what if Dad's house safety plan was EXACTLY the same as Mom's house? That might cut the legs out of the idea that Well, Mom's house is safer, so that's why I'm not going to Dad's.

Alternatively (though you can tell me if this would be too much for D12 to handle), what if part of the Dad's house safety plan was this: ":)12, I love you so much, I don't want you to get hurt. I know you want to be safe here, too. Part of the safety plan here is that if you ever have a knife or scissors or X, Y, or Z without asking me first, I will call (911, or the hotline, or a counselor, or something). You mean so much to me, and I want you to be safe."

That might really call her on the carpet -- does she actually want to be safe at your house? Or does she want leverage so that she can be at Mom's?

But that might also be too much for her right now. It would be interesting if she reacted strongly against that safety plan, though, because it seems very... .safe.

Just some brainstorming.

[formflier]

  It can feel so urgent to "get the truth out there" when the kids are mistaken about something. 

This was me... early in figuring out BPD.

I'm a very thoughtful... factual person.  Facts drive my feelings.

As children mature, they tend to move from feelings driving their world to facts driving their world.  The "feeling" of a secure parent they can "deal with"... helps this process.

BPDish types never really did this maturing thing.  Or perhaps it is situational, such as when emotions are high "feelings" take over... .but when calm, they can be quite rational.  (my wife can be like this... .emotions show up quickly... .often with NO WARNING)

0-100 in nothing flat.

Anyway... .one of my biggest "takeaways" from my own therapy and family therapy is the importance for children (and BPDish types too) to be able to speak without be "corrected in the moment".

I erroneously thought I was being helpful to "correct in the moment"... I was actually being unhelpful.

It would appear my kids are much more relaxed around me now.  And... .when I "mean business" or "correct"... .they get it quickly that I'm serious.

FF

[Mutt]

Thanks a lot for the responses and advice so far   I want the give an update on court. Court wasn’t bad as iti thought that it would be. The judge  denied adding a police clause to the court order she called it drakonian, it causes too much trauma to the kids. I told the judge that I don’t want the 10 year old watching the 12 year old because I’m worried about the SI in front of the 10 year she said that it’s not a good idea that the 10 year old watch the 12 year old and that she can’t xhoose where I have the kids for childcare on my time. .

Her eyes kids d of popped out when she said that she wants to change custody and access and said that she couldn’t do it there we would have to go to special chambers. In the meant time the judge changed the court order to reflect that I’m not going to seek access of the 12 year from not until special chambers. I’m not sure what to think about that I can’t force the 12 year old to come to my house. The judge didn’t touch on the four days that the ex wouldn’t give me the kids i told her that I wanted the police clause to be proactive and have to go to court to enforce it. I think that she let it slide because from the beginning of the month until now the two younger boys are with me.

I went to go get an application to change the child support because my exuBPDw finally gave me her taxes from last year and she makes pretty close to what I make. I think that what she may be doing is that she knows that she can lose child support or not get as much as she would like and she’s trying to get access and custody to all of them so that she gets full child support. I pay 647 now with shared custody she had claimed 17000 for her taxes when the court order was done 5 years ago and she could of had 1100 a month but settled for 647 now it should be down to 360 something. All of this started around the end of tax season.

[Turkish]

So in your province if one parent just decides not to return the kids the other parent is SOL?

Sounds like Special Chambers is where you get to have time to argue your cases.  Is that scheduled?

[formflier]

  All of this started around the end of tax season.

Has she plotted other stuff like that?  It does make sense, yet it would take somebody that can focus on a goal from then until now.

My wife wouldn't be able to do that kind of thing... .but my sister in law (much worse than my wife) would.  Many times she ended up "winning" things in custody or "proving a point" when you tried to understand the thought process... she decided something was a good idea... and stuck with it, regardless of the amount of evidence that came in.

Here is the thing... .if your ex hadn't caused drama... and you had seen the taxes... .do you think you would have pushed hard for a "refiguring" of things?

FF

[Mutt]

So in your province if one parent just decides not to return the kids the other parent is SOL?

She asked why do I want a police clause I said so that i can be proactive no can’t get that then I pointed I didn’t get the kids for four days at the beginning of the month / no response from the judge. I felt like saying is so this court order can’t enforce anything?

Sounds like Special Chambers is where you get to have time to argue your cases.  Is that scheduled?

Jan 11 2019.

[Mutt]

Has she plotted other stuff like that?  It does make sense, yet it would take somebody that can focus on a goal from then until now.

The other night I yelled at the kids and then I said can I get a redo I don’t like how I handled that. S10 says dad I know you’re stressed I wish that D12 and mom would give you a break. I know that both of them planned on getting D12 out of my house. My uBPDw doesn’t get a lot of things right but one thing she is really good at is money this is about money

Here is the thing... .if your ex hadn't caused drama... and you had seen the taxes... .do you think you would have pushed hard for a "refiguring" of things?

I was planning on filing to get the child support recalculated,  I went to MEP after court to get a statement of account and noticed I paid her 30000 since 2013 I need to make it a level playing field and pay by what th government child support calculator says.

[formflier]

She asked why do I want a police clause I said so that i can be proactive no can’t get that then I pointed I didn’t get the kids for four days at the beginning of the month / no response from the judge. I felt like saying is so this court order can’t enforce anything?

Jan 11 2019.

This is where you should spend some time on the phone with those attorneys and get a good understanding of the underlying law. 

Not saying a lawyer would have overcome this... .but they could have put it in legal language, which... most likely would have gotten a more clear response from the judge.

Is the special chambers in front of the same judge?

Also... ask the lawyer you can talk to on the phone if getting a transcript of this is worthwhile.  Especially if an issue was brought up but not addressed.  They may be able to help you with a written request next time.

FF