BOUNDARIES: Case studies

[Validation78]

Hi All!

   I clearly need help and encouragement with establishing this boundary:

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

My H frequently comes home from work late at night, after I have gone to sleep, or am trying to go to sleep. He is usually wound up from work, and cannot go right to sleep, and instead of either trying to relax and go to sleep, he has been waking me up, on purpose for company. Sometimes he is passive aggressive about it, by closing doors loudly, walking past the bed with a heavy foot and not taking shoes off, talking loudly to the dog, etc. Other times, he actually stands next to the bed and announces, "I'm home".

Question: How what values did it violate?

I get up for work at 5:30AM, and need more than a few hours of sleep. If he wakes me up at Midnight, that leaves little time for my rest.

Question: What did you do?

I have asked him to be more quiet, and to respect my sleep time as I do his when I get up well before him.

Question: What happened?

He claims to not be noisy, and doing anything on purpose. He says that announcing his presence is so that I don't get scared when I hear someone in the house. I've told him if I'm asleep, I don't hear him. If I do hear anything, and see the clock, I assume it's him, and go back to sleep. Other times he has said that I should "be there" for him to discuss his day with him. Sometimes he needs me, and the only bright spot in his day is seeing me and having me to talk to.

Question: How do you feel about it?

I am upset by it. It is clearly a ploy for attention with total disregard for my need to sleep. By making it sound like he is doing me a favor by announcing himself, or expressing his "joy" to see me, he is trying to justify his insensitivity, and making me look like the bad guy for not being there for him after a long hard day. I don't feel guilty about trying to meet my own needs. I have a job to go to, and I can't do it without rest. No matter how I have tried to get this across, he still manages to turn it around on me as if I am wrong, or that I am imagining things!

So, suggestions would be appreciated. This situation cannot persist. I just want to think through a plan, using the appropriate protocol for dealing with a pwBPD, and not making a bad situation worse. I know I am not being unreasonable, but want to approach him properly. It sounds like walking on eggshells, but my intent is to use the right tools, to practice, and to have the desired outcome! Thanks in advance for your advice!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[GreenMango]

Boundaries are things that control our actions or responses. 

So with the interrupted sleep thing... .

These aren't ideal, but:

-Can you sleep separately?

-Can you lock the bedroom door when you go to bed?

-Can you wear ear plugs?

Just some suggestions.

-GM

[doubleAries]

Wow. This is a lot to absorb, and I need to re-read it a few more times (I did read every single post/reply). I certainly believe I am finally zeroing in on what MY problem is (having only recently learned what my mom's problem is--BPD).

In my family (growing up) I became the "no-good child"/scapegoat for trying to establish boundaries. The rest of the family went along with this. When I would dare to speak up about ANY boundary violations (sometimes serious violations, like horrible beatings combined with verbal abuse; sometimes "lesser" violations, like mom tossing my room looking for "evidence" or proof that I/we were BAD) my mom identified this--in front of everyone--as "defiance". My "defiance" would lead to major rages, and then my brothers and stepdad would be angry with me for "causing" mom to blow up. They would admonish me to keep my mouth shut. Usually I did. But not always.

I was also constantly told that I was "selfish" whenever I asked for something, expressed desire to do or have something, or didn't do something (examples: asking for something to eat, asking for a book or game or wanting to go somewhere, or reading while someone else was doing dishes).

To this day, these are problem areas for me. The very first posting here, the story about the house, hits home with me. I go back and forth between thinking I'm "selfish" for not giving too much of myself, and disengaging. I think of disengaging as "standing up for myself"--something I was never allowed to do.

Sometimes I am resentful about the "boundary busters" requests, but believe if I comply, then basically they will "owe" me when it comes MY turn for requests (then when my requests are turned down, I am outraged by their "selfishness", and continue the cycle until finally I disengage, thinking "THERE! I finally stood up for myself!" when in actuality, the problem was either tolerated/accepted and then run away from.

My father (divorced from my mom when I was an infant) was emotionally incestuous and sexually abusive at times. But he looked like a great parent to me (from the kid perspective) because he didn't beat me (ever) or scream verbal abuse at me (ever). This where most of the FOG was in my life. When I was an adult, he decided to become a guy who wouldn't get out of bed unless he had to (yes he had health problems, but they weren't debilitating like he exaggerated that they were). And as his only child, he expected me to come take care of him. this wasn't taking care of like when you're taking care of someone sick. This was personal slave crap "go get me a bowl of jello" go do this, go do that, get me this or that, fill my ice bucket, go get me Chramin double ply single roll toilet paper--AUGH! This isn't what I said, this is double ply double roll! Throw it away and go get what I asked for! After you trim my toenails and squeeze the dogs anal glands and put some neosporin on my scrotum. then cook me some beef and noodles and boil a dozen eggs for exactly 7 minutes and go get boards to make a rack to adjust my TV so I don't have to look up at it.

My own life was secondary (at best) and if I'd show annoyance and say "I need to get home and work so my business doesn't collapse" he'd get put out and grab his wallet and hand me a couple hundred dollar bills and say "here--this is better than make those 'thingys' that you make". And I did it. Usually he wasn't snarky--he was polite and said thank you. But it never ended. And just like when I was a kid, I was afraid to disappoint him or let him down in any way, because I felt I "owed" him for not treating me the way my mom did. I was his only kid--so it must be my "duty". I resented it greatly--but carefully and silently. When he died, i was relieved. And felt guilty about that.

But the problem was never resolved--just sidestepped.

I still think "am I being too pushy? Am I being SELFISH? Am I asking for too much?" And if I determine that I'm not, the only "resolution" I usually see is disengagement. For example, I've been NC with mom for 22 years. Not that I think it would be a good idea to start communication with her again--it wouldn't. But I never did learn to deal with her. Or anyone I let get close to me. I'm not so great with other peoples boundaries either. Especially if they "owe" me. Hmmm... .there's a lot to read here--including all the links in this thread. But I want to. I'm tired of analyzing my mom and her behavior. I want to work on MYSELF. Not just sit around patting myself and feeling sorry about what I've endured. I mean learn the things I didn't learn as a kid.

[GreenMango]

DA,

It is a lot to absorb.  There is a really great book on boundaries by Townsend & Cloud.  We have a review on it here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=59097.0.

Many times being an Adult Child we have to teach ourselves things our parents were ill-equipped to teach us.  I still struggle with boundaries.

It's like a work in progress that for me involves habit.  Start small and build up.  It gets easier and I feel more comfortable if I'm very aware of what value I'm defending for myself.

Here's a great excerpt from the main boundaries workshop this case study workshop was derived from that talks especially about the guilt we can feel.

Boundaries    Boundaries are how we define our values to others.   A boundary is nothing more than the outer perimeters of our independent core values -  it's like a fence  - anything inside the boundary is consistent with our core values and anything outside the boundary is not.  For example, if your independent core value is "always to be respectful of others" a boundary question might be "would abruptly walking out of the room when someone says something offensive be inside or outside of your definition of this value?"  ... . 

Defending boundaries (without values) tends to be shallow, reactive, and confrontational

I will not tolerate you getting in my face (stated aggressively)

If you do things I don't like, I will respond by doing things that are equally distressing to you

You weren't there when I needed you, so I wasn't there when you need me

Etc.

I struggled with the resentment and the guilt trips... .you mentioned the "am I being selfish" I struggled with that too.  I was hard to say No sometimes.  

If you want to start with a small boundary with the following questions from page 1 here I would happily walk through it with you.

As a start, it would be helpful to have a few examples of boundary violations that we can analyze.

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

Question: How what values did it violate?  

Question: What did you do?  

Question: What happened?

Question: How do you feel about it?

GM

[doubleAries]

How weird! I don't even know how to do this! But I'm going to try--here goes (start with something comparitively small):

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

When I was about 13, I did some yard work for a neighbor and earned a small amount of money. With some of that money, I bought a Steve Martin record that I thought was very funny. But at one point on the record, he sang "grandpa bought a rubber" and I knew my mom was going to destroy the record at first opportunity because of that. So I pulled the carpet back from the floor underneath my bed and hid it there (back in the record album days--it was flat). She found it. I was afraid to ask her about it, but then saw it "conveniently" sticking out from behind her desk in the dining room. I pulled it out and the album was broken in half. This was one of those moments where I decided to say something--I asked her what happened to my record. She said it must have fallen behind the desk and broke. I could see I was treading thin ice by the look in her eye and the tone of her voice (and we both knew where she actually found it) but I went ahead and said "but the cover has a crease all the way across it. Someone broke it on purpose" and she said--very sarcastically--"well maybe (younger brother) did it!"

Question: How what values did it violate?

The right to privacy in my room (which wasn't allowed ever anyway), the right to respect for my belongings (which I paid for myself), the common courtesy to be honest about what she did and why.

Question: What did you do?

I swallowed my indignation and anger and let it go.   

Question: What happened?

I'm not sure how to answer this. What happened immediately? Nothing. Everything stayed the same as always.

Question: How do you feel about it?

At the time, I was angry about being treated like this. I was also despondant (not quite the exact word) about not seeing any other way to deal with things except to submit. It's hard to take this particular situation out of the bigger picture context. I rolled it into all the other internalized angry feelings because there was no where for those feelings to go. If I dared to show how I felt, I would have been whipped. That itself made me feel hopeless, voiceless, weak, pathetic. I also felt afraid and blamed myself in order to cope/survive by pointing out to myself that I was clearly "bad" for hiding something (which was very strictly forbidden and I was well aware of that). I don't even know how to explain how I felt, because there were so many feelings mashed together that didn't seem to go together.

[doubleAries]

Maybe I should try something from adulthood:

As a start, it would be helpful to have a few examples of boundary violations that we can analyze.

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

Frequently when I am talking about something important to me to my husband, he picks up the newspaper and starts reading it or simply walks out of the room or house.

Question: How what values did it violate?

GEEZ! I'm not sure! Do I have the "RIGHT" to be treated respectfully? 

Question: What did you do?

I used to just sulk and feel sorry for myself and angrily think about dumping him. Then I started spewing my anger on him for treating me like I'm unimportant and boring. Now I brush aside my anger, and say to myself "well, what did you expect? Like you don't know what's going to happen?" and get on with something else to distract myself, and try to not share anything of myself with him--hold myself distant to protect myself. 

Question: What happened?

Our relationship has become more and more distant, until we are basically room mates who co-exist devoid of communication.

Question: How do you feel about it?

Cheated. Used. Angry. Ignored. Taken advantage of. Lonely. Rejected. Confused about whether I should "accept him for who he is" and quit pushing personal things on him that he clearly doesn't want. Fearful and unsure about myself--am I too pushy? Am I wanting "it all" (too much) when in many other respects he is a good husband (mostly based on what he DOESN'T do--drinking, drugs, infidelity, laziness, etc)?

I find I am having a very difficult time seperating the questions "what happened" and "how do you feel about it". And answering "what values did it violate?". And I can relate to your example about defending boundaries (without values). And i cannot answer this: For example, if your independent core value is "always to be respectful of others" a boundary question might be "would abruptly walking out of the room when someone says something offensive be inside or outside of your definition of this value?"

I'm surprised, because i feel totally lost here.

[DesertChild]

I'll use one where I don't know if I reacted well.

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

We were in a foreign country where the glyphs are not the ones used in the Germanic-Latinate group. My mom complained that the maps were "confusing" because the glyphs (she called them symbols, which she knows is a trigger) are all strange (i.e. racist comment, which was supposed to be aimed at me indirectly--for an earlier bout where I dared to set a boundary.)

I pointed and asked my Dad and showed him. He nodded and smiled and then pointed it out to her. I could feel her sulking. (The passive aggressive behavior wasn't really about that. And my Dad didn't get that being in denial land.)

So later, when we found a restaurant they wanted to go to and I'd agreed to, she asked me to match the "symbol." She took credit for it.

Question: How what values did it violate?

Copyright, my thoughts, intellect, and human rights.

Question: What did you do?

I objected. I thought about walking away, but I didn't have the cash or means to go back to the hotel and set the boundaries per the three strikes rule. I did offer to eat at a different restaurant (though it's hard to remember after the distortion field goes up.) and meet them later and asked to borrow the cash. My Dad intervened (like always) in favor of my mom. She tried to bend the reality around us so she would get credit. Since it's a restaurant, either way she wins. She likes to deprive me of food to "punish me" if I push back and say I found it, then she won't let me have food (Delayed period of time, so she's not a "abusive". (She's done this before AND likes to joke about it because it's a win-win for her). Sad thing was I was an adult by then.

Question: What happened?


We went into the restaurant and then it became a silent match, her end. I didn't let her do the sweeping "Oh, it's on you honey" thing. Made her more mad. I let her. I ignored her anger.

I went into talking about the food, which lightened her up a bit. She tried to chalk up the earlier disagreement to "low blood sugar". I didn't let her by ignoring her comment. She got more mad.

Eventually this all festered into a huge BPD rage and silent match some days later. She holds grudges. My Dad tried to blame me. Didn't let him.

Question: How do you feel about it?

Angry and violated. Also manipulated into a win-win. Either way, I fed her and I had no way to walk away from them being in a foreign country.

Also angry at myself because I tried *not* to go into puppy dog mode, but I don't know if I did or didn't. I almost feel like I did, but again, distortion field is strong around her.

Therapist thought given the circumstances I did well... .but I can't help feeling that I could have done better.

[GreenMango]

DoubleAries,

I read both instances you've written about, both then and now.

The instance of when you had your privacy violated and your belongings destroyed must have been heartbreaking.  I'm really sorry that happened.  When we are kids it's kind of hard to enforce boundaries especially if our parents are bullies.

What I've noticed is I've learned from these boundary violations like you've mentioned:

If I dared to show how I felt, I would have been whipped. That itself made me feel hopeless, voiceless, weak, pathetic

. 

I learned to be voiceless and passive.  This carried into my adult interactions.

You mentioned your values as:

right to privacy

respect for my belongings 

courtesy to be honest   

So, our boundaries are the things we can do to ensure we honor these things with our actions.  We couldn't do it as children, but we can do it as we get older.

Maybe I should try something from adulthood:

As a start, it would be helpful to have a few examples of boundary violations that we can analyze.

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

Frequently when I am talking about something important to me to my husband, he picks up the newspaper and starts reading it or simply walks out of the room or house.

Question: How what values did it violate?

GEEZ! I'm not sure! Do I have the "RIGHT" to be treated respectfully? 

Question: What did you do?

I used to just sulk and feel sorry for myself and angrily think about dumping him. Then I started spewing my anger on him for treating me like I'm unimportant and boring. Now I brush aside my anger, and say to myself "well, what did you expect? Like you don't know what's going to happen?" and get on with something else to distract myself, and try to not share anything of myself with him--hold myself distant to protect myself. 

Question: What happened?

Our relationship has become more and more distant, until we are basically room mates who co-exist devoid of communication.

Question: How do you feel about it?

Cheated. Used. Angry. Ignored. Taken advantage of. Lonely. Rejected. Confused about whether I should "accept him for who he is" and quit pushing personal things on him that he clearly doesn't want. Fearful and unsure about myself--am I too pushy? Am I wanting "it all" (too much) when in many other respects he is a good husband (mostly based on what he DOESN'T do--drinking, drugs, infidelity, laziness, etc)?

I find I am having a very difficult time seperating the questions "what happened" and "how do you feel about it". And answering "what values did it violate?". And I can relate to your example about defending boundaries (without values). And i cannot answer this: For example, if your independent core value is "always to be respectful of others" a boundary question might be "would abruptly walking out of the room when someone says something offensive be inside or outside of your definition of this value?"

I'm surprised, because i feel totally lost here.

I thought your were very articulate with your feelings of this situation.  You picked a really good example.  It's hard when we feel disregarded or ignored... .it can hurt.  Often times when we carry our childhood lessons into our adulthood relationships we can enable patterns that don't always help us to have healthy relationships. 

Building on what you wrote from the childhood instance and the one with your husband it looks like you've identified for values:

Respecting privacy

Respecting property

Honest Communication

Respecting Feelings

It sounds like the situation touches on Honest Communication and Respecting Feelings.  We can't control the actions of others, but we can behave in a way that respects our values and boundaries.  And with this integrity we build confidence and self-respect.   

In regards to Honest Communication and Respecting Feelings, there are several tools that may help you to communicate your feelings to your husband.

Have you checked out the communication tools here at bpdfamily.com?

GM

[GreenMango]

I'll use one where I don't know if I reacted well.

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

We were in a foreign country where the glyphs are not the ones used in the Germanic-Latinate group. My mom complained that the maps were "confusing" because the glyphs (she called them symbols, which she knows is a trigger) are all strange (i.e. racist comment, which was supposed to be aimed at me indirectly--for an earlier bout where I dared to set a boundary.)

I pointed and asked my Dad and showed him. He nodded and smiled and then pointed it out to her. I could feel her sulking. (The passive aggressive behavior wasn't really about that. And my Dad didn't get that being in denial land.)

So later, when we found a restaurant they wanted to go to and I'd agreed to, she asked me to match the "symbol." She took credit for it.

Question: How what values did it violate?

Copyright, my thoughts, intellect, and human rights.

Question: What did you do?

I objected. I thought about walking away, but I didn't have the cash or means to go back to the hotel and set the boundaries per the three strikes rule. I did offer to eat at a different restaurant (though it's hard to remember after the distortion field goes up.) and meet them later and asked to borrow the cash. My Dad intervened (like always) in favor of my mom. She tried to bend the reality around us so she would get credit. Since it's a restaurant, either way she wins. She likes to deprive me of food to "punish me" if I push back and say I found it, then she won't let me have food (Delayed period of time, so she's not a "abusive". (She's done this before AND likes to joke about it because it's a win-win for her). Sad thing was I was an adult by then.

Question: What happened?


We went into the restaurant and then it became a silent match, her end. I didn't let her do the sweeping "Oh, it's on you honey" thing. Made her more mad. I let her. I ignored her anger.

I went into talking about the food, which lightened her up a bit. She tried to chalk up the earlier disagreement to "low blood sugar". I didn't let her by ignoring her comment. She got more mad.

Eventually this all festered into a huge BPD rage and silent match some days later. She holds grudges. My Dad tried to blame me. Didn't let him.

Question: How do you feel about it?

Angry and violated. Also manipulated into a win-win. Either way, I fed her and I had no way to walk away from them being in a foreign country.

Also angry at myself because I tried *not* to go into puppy dog mode, but I don't know if I did or didn't. I almost feel like I did, but again, distortion field is strong around her.

Therapist thought given the circumstances I did well... .but I can't help feeling that I could have done better.

DesertChild,

I'm really sorry to hear this, and it was on vacation.  Vacations are supposed to fun.  It sounds like you were triangulated between your mom and dad.  This can be totally frustrating and we can walk away from a situation like this a go "What was that?", "What just happened", etc.

I think your therapist had a great opinion the circumstances were you captive on a trip... .with nowhere to go.  It doesn't leave a whole lot of options.

In regards to being triangulated and respecting your individual autonomy next time... .what could you do as far as actions that doesn't allow your parents to draw you into a uncomfortable situations in their relationship?

GM

[DesertChild]

In regards to being triangulated and respecting your individual autonomy next time... .what could you do as far as actions that doesn't allow your parents to draw you into a uncomfortable situations in their relationship?

GM

I did swear after that to go nowhere with them where I would be trapped and in a country where they don't speak or read the language (For me, I think it's fun--means more to learn and I spent a few years studying because I knew we were going to go. We'd known for at least a good 5 years--I crash coursed on three languages in the past year.). I *knew* what it really was about--my adoption. (The whole of the continent was at fault in my mom's eyes. Even this country where I wasn't adopted from.) Still, two BPD rages in two weeks time was hard to handle--though my T said I did really well considering the circumstances of both. Setting boundaries against both my mom and dad (co-dependent) was still difficult--it was two battles back to back and Wise Mind results in them ignoring me and my boundaries. (I'm only a person to them when I yell at them or cry and I do not like yelling or crying. I feel statements get totally ignored. "I feel" statements are not valid in my mom's eyes.)

Instead, I swore that I would bring people that like to travel like how I like to travel and to countries where they like that country. (They like Museums because it helps them objectify--or I should say my Mom objectify the people there into displays, so it feels "safe" to her. Drives me nuts. Also drives her nuts when I say I don't want to go because her asking isn't supposed to be optional.) I also asked people I knew if they would some day would like to go with me that would be enthusiastic to go. I stopped my denial, faced it and decided to always have an escape route around them so I can set healthy boundaries. My Therapist also said to always have cash at hand in the future, especially around them in case this happens around them again. (Was early in just setting boundaries, so I hadn't learned yet.) I still want to become strong enough to go to my home town and not be trapped--I'm working towards that because there are things I want to do there that don't involve either of them. (And I had no contingency plan for the last two times, which acted like a trigger for my lousy childhood both times.)

[doubleAries]

Thank you, GreenMango--where can i find the communication tools?

[Pilpel]

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries been violated?

Frequently when I am talking about something important to me to my husband, he picks up the newspaper and starts reading it or simply walks out of the room or house.

I have a similar experience with my sil.   She's very animated when she's doing the talking.  But when I try to contribute to the conversation, she looks away.  She turns her face so that I have to look at her stiff profile or else she just looks distracted.  I interpret it as a power thing.  I know that she gets into this thing about feeling like she's better than others.  And I think it's a subtle way of making me feel unimportant.  Can't imagine what it would be like to be married to someone like that.  Fortunately, I don't see her that often.  And it's just another thing that makes me dread her company.  I'm a bit too slow to react.  I never think about how to respond until much later.  One of these days I want to just say, "Are you not interested in what I have to say?  Because you're looking away.  If you're not interested we don't have to talk."  And that last sentence I think sums it up.  I don't think what she says is any more interesting than what I have to say. But I politely listen and try to interact.  I resent that there is no real reciprocation.  She wants attention without giving attention in exchange. 

When I get a chance I'll post a different boundary situation. 

[calc73]

Everytime my BPD father projects onto me, it feels like a huge boundary violation.

Who I am, how I feel, what I want, these are all private things. I decide. I am in charge of this domain. But my father will TELL me how I am feeling, or what caused my behavior.

For instance, my blood sugar went down at the doctors frm my last visit. I had changed nothing with my diet or my exercise. BPD dad didn't listen to me when I said I changed nothing. He just started making up a story. "no, you got scared and so you changed your behavior."

Keep in mind that I wasn't even LIVING with him at the time, so this idea of a behavioral change was purely made up in his mind. He is also famously anxious, so "you got scared" sounds more like a description of the way he would act.

I also hate it when he acts like he is doing something to help me, when in reality he is hurting me. I make it clear that I want him to stop, but he continues.

[GreenMango]

Thank you, GreenMango--where can i find the communication tools?

Some good communication tools are located in the Workshops.  One that is a good starter is SET.

There's one clincher about communication tools, they don't fix a personality disorder.  They can help to deescalate conflict riddled communication, but in the beginning because they take practice.  Sometimes it doesn't always end in instant happiness. 

A great place to practice these tools and get feedback is on the Undecided or Staying board if you want to give it a try.

-GM

[GreenMango]

I also hate it when he acts like he is doing something to help me, when in reality he is hurting me. I make it clear that I want him to stop, but he continues.

Is there a way to physically remove yourself from the help?

GM

[Pilpel]

 

I just wanted to say that it's so easy to see the boundary violations when my SIL crosses my mom's boundaries.  She bullies my mom and treats her like a servant, and then turns around and complains that my mom doesn't spend more time with her and her kids.  It feels more vague with me.  And there's always an angle to it, where she does things that disrespect boundaries.  Yet I see this angle where I will look bad if I complain.  

Question: Briefly, explain a situation where your boundaries have been violated?

My SIL scolded my kids.  (She's done this a few times.)  Once, she scolded my daughter for sticking her tongue out at her baby.  My daughter didn't realize she had done something wrong and got very upset.  I realize how this sounds just looking at the particular incident -like my child is rude and I'm being over-coddling.

Question: What values did it violate?    

The main problem is that my SIL (and brother) have very aggressive kids, and their lack of concern for their own kids' bad behavior has been a problem for me and my husband for years.  To try to prevent our kids from being hurt, either me or my husband have frequently given up visiting with adults during family gatherings to monitor the kids.  I've tried talking to my brother about it, but he's clueless.  My father has even told my SIL that her child is a bully, and she replied with a defensive "no, he's not!" --without even asking what her son had done.  Most of the time that we've been together my kids (particularly my son) have had to endure pushing, hitting, pinching, name calling, body slamming, harassing behavior like poking sticks in my son's face.  And my SIL and brother act like it's none of their business.  I don't think she has a right to scold my kids until she take an active role in making sure her kids are playing nice with mine.

Question: What did you do?    

At the time I didn't know how to articulate what was wrong.  Since then when my kids complain, I try to bring it up with my SIL or brother and ask them to handle their own kids.  As an example, recently, my daughter came up to me and told me that my nephew had punched her in the stomach.  My SIL and brother were right there.  I turned to my SIL immediately and asked her to tell her son to play nice.  My SIL responded by getting flustered.  "Oh, uh, well, I didn't see what happened."  Then she turned to my brother/her husband and asked him to take care of it.  Later when I thought of her response it made me angry.  20 minutes previously I had had to tell her kids to play nice repeatedly --and this while SIL was present.   I was angry that she questioned the truthfulness of my daughter.  


Question: How do you feel about it?

My daughter sticking her tongue out IS rude.  I didn't want my daughter to do things that were offensive.   But it just didn't sit right with me.  At first I had a vague feeling of unfairness that she was scolding my child, but it took several hours before I could articulate why.   I don't think she has a right to scold my kids until she takes an active role in keeping her own children's behavior in line, and prevents her kids from hurting and harassing mine.  She has to right to complain about the small sins of my children, when her kids are constantly terrorizing mine.  I felt bad that I didn't have the words to say at that time.  I didn't want to do or say anything that would cause conflict/or escalation of a problem with my SIL, yet I felt like I should have  said something to stand up for my kids.