8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

[pbles]

from everything i gather, borderlines can't seem to sustain feelings of just about any kind. they can't sustain happiness, they can't sustain seem to sustain love, they can't seem to sustain relationships, they can't sustain feelings of security/safety. they can't sustain an identity. on the other hand, they often can't sustain the black they paint us with.

but the point that im trying to get to, is that even these moments of clarity aren't sustainable. missing us isn't sustainable. feelings of and for of us aren't sustainable. your ex may well have "come to his senses and missed you" and he may have done it 1000 times. but if so, what has he done about it? it's my general answer to whether or not borderlines love us, or how they love us. sure, maybe they do, maybe they don't, but what is apparent to me is that they can't sustain it.

This gave me an AHA! moment.  I've always had a problem with thinking that it's "out of sight, out of mind" because, if that's the case, why do they then stalk us and refuse to go away even after months.

This made it all very clear.  Just like he couldn't sustain feelings of love for me, or despising me, or mood stability, or happiness, or or or, neither can he sustain the "out of sight"

What a horrible way to live - on this rollercoaster or pendulum of swaying feelings and emotions.  I actually feel really sorry for him - but not enough to go back, break NC or do anything.

Got to admit - I feel for myself more.  NEVER going back there!

[realityhurts]

from everything i gather, borderlines can't seem to sustain feelings of just about any kind. they can't sustain happiness, they can't sustain seem to sustain love, they can't seem to sustain relationships, they can't sustain feelings of security/safety. they can't sustain an identity. on the other hand, they often can't sustain the black they paint us with.

but the point that im trying to get to, is that even these moments of clarity aren't sustainable. missing us isn't sustainable. feelings of and for of us aren't sustainable. your ex may well have "come to his senses and missed you" and he may have done it 1000 times. but if so, what has he done about it? it's my general answer to whether or not borderlines love us, or how they love us. sure, maybe they do, maybe they don't, but what is apparent to me is that they can't sustain it.

This gave me an AHA! moment.  I've always had a problem with thinking that it's "out of sight, out of mind" because, if that's the case, why do they then stalk us and refuse to go away even after months.

This made it all very clear.  Just like he couldn't sustain feelings of love for me, or despising me, or mood stability, or happiness, or or or, neither can he sustain the "out of sight"

What a horrible way to live - on this rollercoaster or pendulum of swaying feelings and emotions.  I actually feel really sorry for him - but not enough to go back, break NC or do anything.

Got to admit - I feel for myself more.  NEVER going back there!

Gosh, me too. I always wondered why it was that my ex couldn't finish anything, couldn't stick to university, couldn't stick to a job, didn't stick to an expensive hypnotherapy course and then ultimately couldn't stick with me.

She knew it too. She blamed me in an email "you might think I'm a dreamer who never finishes anything" I never suggested anything of the sort but I was there to blame... And so the cycle continues.

[Clearmind]

The belief that the absence makes the heart grow fonder or colder as the case may be rocked me to the core.

I thought how could someone want to be with me 24x7 and then when I am gone he found it hard to connect. When I was gone I would think about him all the time.

Then I thought back to my typical workday. I would receive upwards of 6 emails and a phone call every lunchtime to just say "Hi" and he insisted on picking me up from work even though it was inconvenient for us both. If this is the way the rs was to operate on so we feel connected ~ I don't want it.

Towards the end of my relationship I wanted to spend more time with family and friends solo. I also felt I was disconnecting and relished the thought of hoping on the train each workday to do nothing but listen to my music and exhale.

Has absence made the heart grow colder for me? Yes! I placed it all into perspective and see my role and what I need to work on. I thank him for it and I thank me for finding me again.

[sea5045]

Good for me to remember with the holidays. I could barely move last year, could barely clean my apartment much less decorate for the holidays... .this year I am happy and festive, but have been having sentimental feelings about the ex, her family, etc. Found all her Christmas ornaments I gave her but never sorted out because when she moved for a job I didnt know our relationship was dissolving. I love ornaments, and they meant something to me and I had fantasies of dropping them off at her sister in law's house, etc.

Good to remember that we are out of sight, out of mind. Because she would probably look at those ornaments and turn her nose up in disdain. OUCH!

[Gaslit]

I never bought into this "belief."

In fact, I could "re-set" my BPD friend by going away. She would continue to "gnat" me while we were apart for months, and then when I stupidly re-engaged, it was honeymoon again for 3 months, then nonsense. Then repeat the above.

In my case, I just don't believe this belief. I think leaving triggers their abandonment fears. That they don't forget you, that they forget they hated you. Until they remember.

[pbles]

I never bought into this "belief."

In fact, I could "re-set" my BPD friend by going away. She would continue to "gnat" me while we were apart for months, and then when I stupidly re-engaged, it was honeymoon again for 3 months, then nonsense. Then repeat the above.

In my case, I just don't believe this belief. I think leaving triggers their abandonment fears. That they don't forget you, that they forget they hated you. Until they remember.

Me too.  I could always "reset" him by ignoring his sulks.  If he detached, I detached more (towards the end).  Two weeks later he's back, texting, how much he misses me, can we talk, honeymoon again etc etc until the next little thing set him off.

Here's the way I think they work -

I think they hate you, then they forget they hate you.  Then they love you, then (once triggered) they forget they love you, then they hate you - and round and round it goes!

The rest of us (i.e. nons) can get annoyed (and sometimes really annoyed) but we don't hate our partners.  They just p*** us off for a while.  The clue to the normality would be, if something bad happened to them in the middle of this, wouldn't you forget it all and rush to be by their side, to help, to soothe, to nurture.

But they don't.  If something happens to you while they're in the "hate" phase, they continue to ignore you - to punish even more.  Or, in my experience, to punish you because whatever tragedy happened happened.

It's absolute madness!  And none of us caring, sharing people deserve it!

[seeking balance]

I never bought into this "belief."

In fact, I could "re-set" my BPD friend by going away. She would continue to "gnat" me while we were apart for months, and then when I stupidly re-engaged, it was honeymoon again for 3 months, then nonsense. Then repeat the above.

In my case, I just don't believe this belief. I think leaving triggers their abandonment fears. That they don't forget you, that they forget they hated you. Until they remember.

From you description of how you were effected on the surface, I can see your point.

Digging into the layers, the absence likely had acting out episodes you are not aware of - and lucky for you, you don't know about them.

Your distance/absence does cause dysregulation as seen in the renewed honeymoon "idealization" phase you mention.  This is like when you see a 3 year old family member.  You may be playing at the park for an hour and then 3 weeks later, it is like meeting again, but quickly the child bonds and you are now a favorite toy.

[HardDaysNight]

I came to the realization that being close or far did not matter.   "out of sight out of mind" and "familiarity breeds contempt" both seemed to apply.  The ever shifting shoals of abandonment-engulfment fears are too complicated (or too draining) to navigate. 

I have to focus on doing the right thing and being a good person, not on triggers. 

The one constant trigger I see is when things are going too well for too long.  The kids are well behaved, we are having fun outings, the house is clean, etc.  This has never lasted more than a week in my memory.  Just recently we got 4 days, but then drama and manufactured conflict.  There is no stopping it.  Agreeing to the BPD's new demand does nothing.  When the drama ends, the snide comments and sullen sulking begins.

[pbles]

I came to the realization that being close or far did not matter.   "out of sight out of mind" and "familiarity breeds contempt" both seemed to apply.  The ever shifting shoals of abandonment-engulfment fears are too complicated (or too draining) to navigate.  

I have to focus on doing the right thing and being a good person, not on triggers.  

The one constant trigger I see is when things are going too well for too long.  The kids are well behaved, we are having fun outings, the house is clean, etc.  This has never lasted more than a week in my memory.  Just recently we got 4 days, but then drama and manufactured conflict.  There is no stopping it.  Agreeing to the BPD's new demand does nothing.  When the drama ends, the snide comments and sullen sulking begins.

Amen to this.  Mine could only ever do a week.  Even when it seemed Utopia, he'd start to dish out the snide comments and the sullen sulking.  Used to drive me nuts trying to figure out the cause each time - and, of course, he'd never tell me.  Just smirk and tell me it was me.

Weird thing is that, for a long time, I believed that it must be.  Never had any evidence but  I figured that I'd done something.  Now I know that it wouldn't have mattered what I did or didn't do, the fact that it was a day ending in "y" meant that there was a chance he'd start it all again.

[Sparkley]

I believed that absence made my exBPDgf realize her mistake.  She always gave me this sad eyes and made sure to be in my line of site.  After 20 years of not speaking, I finally broke and mailed her a letter.  I felt totally complete in my life after we started speaking again.  She had apologized for all of the wrong things she did to me and us and said that she had always wanted us to remain in each other's lives.  I ignored red flags in her emails and letters-she really wasn't being accountable-just saying words... .but never the less we were young when she acted out and crazy so I just forgave.  It took 3 months for the same pattern to repeat as it had 20 years earlier-no absence didn't teach her anything. 

I wonder though... .does she drive by so that she doesn't forget or so that has someone to think about and not grow cold?  They fear absence so much from our lives even though they push us away... .but at the same time, even though we don't speak, I feel like she is a part of my life and me hers ONLY b/c she never stops looking at me or being around me.  It's a dance.  I wish I could make it stop and I've been NC and tried just acting like I would with a stranger.  It's been 23 years now and she's still there... .still looking.

[Gaslit]

23 years? F me. Even wars don't last that long. My gawd what did we all get ourselves in to?

[MindfulJavaJoe]

SB,

I found that withrawing behaviour, tough love, sleeping in the spare room, distancing, coming home late from work because I did not want to face being raged at. All thess things she found invlaidating. In additintion I had stoped providing for her needs.

I wanted her to realise what she was missing out on. She just went to look for someone new. I was devalued and rejected.

Great thread. 

[sea5045]

SB,

I found that withrawing behaviour, tough love, sleeping in the spare room, distancing, coming home late from work because I did not want to face being raged at. All thess things she found invlaidating. In additintion I had stoped providing for her needs.

I wanted her to realise what she was missing out on. She just went to look for someone new. I was devalued and rejected.

Great thread. 

I too withdrew, retreated into my room, afraid of the angry moods, hiding out under the bad mood. It was very painful and  doubly so to be devalued and discarded.  Stings a bit during  the holidays... .feel really lonesome I guess.  anyway remind me I'm better off please.

[Marcie]

Actually this i do feel that absence makes the heart grow fonder. But in a normal relationship though. Not in a relationship with mental illness

[MindfulJavaJoe]

pwBPD tend to objectify the person to whom they have formed an attachment. bwBPD also tend to live very much in the present.

If the object of their attachment is not present this can be a trigger for feeling of abandonment, emptiness and may lead that peson to for an attachment with another if the situation presents itself.

My uBPDw suddenly became less dependent on me and able to cope without me. This I could not understand until I found out that they had a new bf in their life. Then it all begins to make sense.

MJJ

[painter]

What Anra wrote above rings true for me. My exBPDgf loves, and experiences sex, in a childish way. And she definitely put me in the role of a parent who should always be there for her after she goes out to find new partners.

At the beginning of our rs, on the first night we kissed four years ago, she told me she is weak in relationships, doesn't fall in love or get attached. Within a few months she was clinging to me like a vine, and within a year she was telling me all the time that she loved me. But when we fought she would tell me she could forget me immediately by having sex with somebody else. She also warned me that if she moves away I shouldn't expect to hear from her because she forgets about people. On the other hand she often told me that I will be a part of her forever. When we were broken up two years ago for seven months she acted like she had lost all feeling for me. Then after we got back together she told me she thought about me constantly during the breakup. I know she likes to stay in touch with all her exes, and she says she has stayed friends with all of them. (She also gets upset when she hears that any of them have gotten married; "that's not okay," she says.) I think that in the chaos of her mind, with thoughts and feelings racing constantly, memories and feelings for people come and go, and she just tries to bend everything to keep refilling her void, without any feeling of loyalty.

[heath08]

This concept is so devastating to grasp. My H and I use to live away and occasionally I would fly home to see my sister. Before I would leave he would cry and be so upset about me going, hugging and kissing me and wanting to be close. But when I was gone he would barely call and when I would call he would watch tv and not want to even talk, if he even bothered to answer. It was like 2 different men. I have just started to understand BPD and in hindsight I see now why when I wasn't around it was like he didn't even love me.

I can't even seem to be upset or set boundaries because if I am "normal" and feel guarded from the rage episodes like any body would, to him I am distant which gives me more of the same coldness and hate. I am just realizing I am in a no win situation and I cannot not possibly stay because I would have to give up my own rights to feelings I deserve just so he doesn't feel abandoned, meanwhile I am the one who actually has been tossed away emotionally.

It hurts so much to think I have loved and cared for someone who can just literally forget I exist, he looks at me like I am a stranger and cannot grasp how intensely painful that is. And at the same time I envy him so very much because I would give anything right now to have this dysfunction to make moving forward easier.

[MindfulJavaJoe]

Objectifying is a complex issue. This article is a little technical but otherwise excellent and help explains the different BPD behaviours when a the non is present and absent (either physically and or emotionally) in a BPD r/s.

It is worth reading through over and over.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=147008.0

[BPD Magnet 1]

Maybe someone here can help me.I beat myself up everyday about this.8 months ago i needed to get to a safe place.So i moved out.We were far apart from each other.We talked everyday on the phone and all seemed well.We picked this home i am in know to buy and remodel.

So i have been killing myself to make all this happen.We only seen each other a few times in these months.I did think if i stayed away she would see what a good guy i am.She would see that she will lose a good thing.I was hoping this ''space'' would heal us and most of all have her see what the hell her actions and behaviors were doing.

So 2 weeks ago everything seemed fine.We laughed and talked.We talked about this home and when she may be moving to live again as a couple.So one night at 5 pm i told her i was going to take a ride on the Motorcycle.I assured her i would be right back.

I was met out of the blue with hate texts.

She said go f---k your new woman there.I hope you have ''fun'' on your new bike.You never loved me.I hate you,you are a no good rotton cheating SOB.

This hit me hard.I tryed to call back and have not heard another word from her since.Now she has turned off her cell phone.

Did i do SOMETHING WRONG BY TRYING TO BUILD THIS HOME AND FUTURE.WHAT DID I DO.

Can someone shine light on this.

[GreenMango]

That old fashioned romantic saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder" would seems like a relatively normal thing in a relatively normal relationship.  The time away at work or when apart would generate a longing missing someone.

Not with someone with BPD.  The lack of object consistency (like when you take a toy away from a small child they protest for a minute then when out sight they forget about the toy and the fun it was) and the abandonment fears can cause someone to behave in ways that are completely contradictory to being in a relationship.  If youre absent you run the chance of being nonexistent or abandoning.

[myself]

This has been a complicated part of the process to understand. When she raged/needed distance, she'd leave and go stay with a friend. Raged more on the phone and via emails while there. If I approached her to work things out, she'd say I was being too pushy, needy, etc. If I stepped back to give her space, she'd say that proved I didn't care and she was right to leave. I do believe she missed me while gone, as much as she was able to at the time, but had some strange ways of showing it. When she'd come back, there were never any apologies for her behavior, for having hurt my feelings or wasted time or anything. Sometimes when she was gone I wished she was missing me more, that by being away she'd see how much I did love her and really was there for her, that she didn't even have to leave in the first place. As with so many other aspects of BPD, it seems absence makes their hearts grow both fonder and colder, to the extremes. With the fluctuations involved, you just never know which one you're gonna get. Sad thing is, it helps turn our warm hearts colder along the way.

[lessonslearned]

If you recognize that the attachment is based on feelings associated with fantasy - the idea that the non is "going to" be the solution to the ills of the BPD, it follows that it's the white part of B&W thinking. It's shallow, it's not from the depths of who they are, because they don't know who they are... .the entire r/s, while intense, comes from a very shallow place - a very fragile place which requires conditions implicit in fantasy.

The heart grows colder because it was never real in the first place - to the degree it was a shallow attachment (not from the depths of who they are), it's easy to let go of once its usefulness has expired. THis seems to be the N side of BPD.

[Bandita]

This has been the most difficult aspect of BPD for me to deal with, but also the aspect that has given me the most answers. My ex and I worked together, lived together, were rarely ever apart, and it was not a burden in and of itself. I remember right from the beginning we were together daily and it didn't bother me, I thought we were best friends.

When we made the decision to move to a new city, and I felt it best for him to go before me (for a variety of practical reasons anyone would agree with) he threw a fit. Once I got him to understand it would be easier/smarter/cheaper for him to go stay temporarily and me to follow, he wanted a (short) timeframe locked in for when I would arrive. It took about a week for him to start bugging me on progress. He called me every day, sometimes twice a day. All this I thought was again, because he genuinely wanted to be with me, talk with me daily--best friends.

Wrong. I see now it was just about supply and keeping me (the object) present. It came to an end when one week he finally met some new friends, got invited out a couple times, and decided he had a new supply. He went from 2x daily calls and telling me how much I meant to him and he loved me to less than 24 hours later (after going out) he didn't love me and it was over.

Absence did nothing but make him need a new object to quell his anxiety. It hurts terribly to realize all along it was not "me" he wanted to daily but what I did for him... .It also helps a lot with that pain to understand his extreme behavior--you can't miss someone you only see as an immediate means to an end. While I was pining for him more and more, in his mind I was fading further away.

[Nomanzland]

Living halfway across the world from my exBPDh now, but during the 11 years we were married we had a number of separations. Recalling meetings at airports, I always felt there was something vital lacking; even after a year apart at times. My heart would be flying with anticipation and excitement at seeing him again as I tried again to patch up the marriage, but he was so restrained. At departures, he would deliver me to the airport and turn away, walking quickly and never looking back. It truly did feel like out of sight (out of his control) out of mind.

[heartandwhole]

If you recognize that the attachment is based on feelings associated with fantasy - the idea that the non is "going to" be the solution to the ills of the BPD, it follows that it's the white part of B&W thinking. It's shallow, it's not from the depths of who they are, because they don't know who they are... .the entire r/s, while intense, comes from a very shallow place - a very fragile place which requires conditions implicit in fantasy.

The heart grows colder because it was never real in the first place - to the degree it was a shallow attachment (not from the depths of who they are), it's easy to let go of once its usefulness has expired. THis seems to be the N side of BPD.

Very interesting thread, and heartbreaking belief!  One thing that confuses me a bit: I often hear about the attachment of pwBPD being shallow, but desire/need seemed so intense and the intensity made me think the attachment to each other was deep.   I would think that a shallow attachment would feel superficial and not so intense?  ? 

Is it shallow because the attaching is coming from an empty/needy place?  Like a big hole to fill (which can't be done).  Whereas a healthy attachment comes from a safer, more "whole" place in both people and is therefore "deeper?" 

Would love to hear your insights.  Thank you for bumping this thread. It's a hard but necessary lesson.

[seeking balance]

I often hear about the attachment of pwBPD being shallow, but desire/need seemed so intense and the intensity made me think the attachment to each other was deep.   I would think that a shallow attachment would feel superficial and not so intense?  ? 

I am not sure that I have read anything in the facts or criteria about the pwBPD attachment being shallow.  Actually, it is only with very significant relationships that the "fear of abandonment" can show itself.

I think where nons get confused is because for us it feels like there was not significant depth "how could she just leave me, etc" - that is our wrong assumption of not understanding the facts of the disorder. 

Does this clarify a bit?

[heartandwhole]

Hi seekingbalance,

Thanks for helping me out here     So, are you saying that we *mistakenly* believe that the attachment was superficial (or shallow) because they "forget" about us and seem to let go/replace us so easily?  And that the attachment was possibly real/deep?

I wonder why I'm asking this question.  I think it makes me feel better to think that even though there is a sudden breakup with quick moving on on pwBPD's part, it doesn't mean that the entire r/s was a fantasy with no real attachment.  Because I felt a deep connection with him.  That is real, that is my experience, if not his.  I guess I want to trust my own feelings.

Thanks for your help!

[seeking balance]

Hi seekingbalance,

Thanks for helping me out here     So, are you saying that we *mistakenly* believe that the attachment was superficial (or shallow) because they "forget" about us and seem to let go/replace us so easily?  And that the attachment was possibly real/deep?

Without a deep attachment, they would not be triggered for such an extreme reaction... .it was real, you both just handle this attachment differently. 

I wonder why I'm asking this question.  I think it makes me feel better to think that even though there is a sudden breakup with quick moving on on pwBPD's part, it doesn't mean that the entire r/s was a fantasy with no real attachment.  Because I felt a deep connection with him.  That is real, that is my experience, if not his.  I guess I want to trust my own feelings.

Thanks for your help!

The relationship was not a fantasy - it was real... .the emotions were very real for you both.

We nons bring a host of false beliefs to the table because we truly do not understand the nature of BPD.  BPD at the root is a fear of abandonment - unless you value something, you don't fear the abandonment.  Many times we see stories on these boards (myself included) where the disorder shows itself fully only after marriage or moving in together, because that act triggers the fear - does this mean the emotions are shallow - no, quite the opposite.

Your feelings were real - feelings are not facts... .the facts are that if your ex is BPD, his emotional responses will very likely not match his feelings when triggered - this is where we find the maladaptive coping methods.

good questions

[myself]

The feelings and needs are very deep, indeed, and the impulses to escape them become overwhelming. A pwBPD's system is ready to launch at all times, and to us that may seem 'shallow' and on the surface but it comes from way down in the roots. We may cling and do whatever we can to save the relationship, but to pwBPD, hanging on triggers their core hurts and they just can't have that. It could lead to the whole house of cards coming down, while looking in the mirror of their true self. I don't think this shows they have a cold heart. Perhaps it's running at such a high temperature that the pwBPD can't hold onto it for very long, sensing that they're being burned. The love and closeness, proof of friendship and trust, add fuel to that fire.

The illness draws the one who has it towards the very things that set the illness off and make it worse. This isn't like someone who has cancer but keeps on smoking anyway, by choice. This is someone who continues to be ill and can not help themselves from doing what makes them more ill. Thinking that if they try again (and try they must) they will somehow find a way out of the illness. With the addition of causing those they come in contact with, who may all along be working on offering assistance for the sickness, to also become deeply scarred from it. It's not contagious in that we don't become BPD from encountering it. It does seem to transfer certain symptoms and other side effects, some of which we bring upon ourselves, which we then have to face and heal from. We're fortunate that through our own efforts we will be able to attain a healthier life. Our connections with the pwBPD were real, just not what they truly need to save them from this illness. It's like hugging somone who is on fire, thinking it will help put out the flames. Their illness keeps them blazing, and our hugs add to their pains. They need to stop, drop, and roll, though, on their own. We all do.

It's not shallow like a paper cut which hurts a short while and goes away. There is something that's been severed, deep inside, and the way to get in there where the real wounds are is blocked by walls of pain, the path frequently changing. When the person with the illness can't even admit their symptoms, let alone reach out for real help, it's that much harder to heal from it. So the patterns mostly continue. None of this is very shallow. It's about as deep as many of us will ever go, the pwBPD included.

[jp254958]

Yeah, this is a devastating reality.  I SO DEARLY LOVE and miss my ex.  I keep hoping she'll reach out to me but by now, she probably doesn't even think of me after a month after our breakup.  As for me, she's all I can think about.  And this is not an obsessive love kind of thing.  I sincerely love this girl with all of my heart.

I just don't understand how I can be such a "nothing" to her, but I could never understand a lot of her behavior.  I don't understand why she would try to throw me away like trash all the time.  I don't understand why she was so cold sometimes.  I don't understand why she would smear me to colleagues. 

I've messed up a lot and I acknowledge that.  I guess I didn't have a full understanding of the condition then, so I acted like a child sometimes too.  I would do anything to have those moments back to change them.  But I don't understand how someone who is SO IMPORTANT to us could so easily throw us away.  Neurological reactions or abandonment fears from childhood may explain why, but they can't absolve the hurt that many of us feel but losing our spouses.