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Author Topic: Friend psychologist challenged me on my perceptions  (Read 6628 times)
FindingMe2011
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« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2011, 06:48:24 PM »

Mindful,

I remember when she told me she never loved me I felt that perhaps my perceptions of what we had were all wrong. Was this true or just said to hurt?

I guess I will never know. I also know that other than an exercise in growth and self development I have to let these moments go.

     I remember my wife of 12+ yrs saying " you never knew me". To some extent she was right. But only because she choose not to be totally truthful. I always knew something wasnt right, but felt I could see this through. But putting logic to crazy doesnt work. What you had was, what you had. If you were intimate, loved her, ect., ect., then thats what it was for you. Her, on the other hand, who knows. That comment sounds like she was just looking to hear you, tell her, how much you love her, to fill her bucket up. Or projection,or what was circling the drain in her mind during that second or whatever and it really doesnt matter. What comes out of thier mouths is really not worth hanging on to. I still have to recieve emails from uBPDw, as we have children. In some ways, reading her projections, lying, manipulation, threats and just, blah blah blah, puts things into perspective. Most of the time I can have a good idea, whats going on, but its not what it is face value. Never is. Then there are comments that I really have no clue, and dont dwell on it, why? Usually get a laugh or 2 from them.
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MindfulJavaJoe
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« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2011, 07:13:24 PM »

     I remember my wife of 12+ yrs saying " you never knew me". To some extent she was right. But only because she choose not to be totally truthful.

I can relate to that. I knew she was trouble be something deep inside. I never knew it would come out and bite me.

What is ironic now is that I now know my uBPDw better now than she does herself.

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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2011, 10:02:08 PM »

Mindful,

"What is ironic now is that I now know my uBPDw better now than she does herself"

After learning of BPD. This is the same comment i made to uBPDw. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Probably uncalled for. I was still pretty angry at the time. She had the deer in headlights look and repeated " You never knew me" numerous times, for the next few weeks or so. LOL. Thanks to this site and other literature, I could predict the majority of her actions. It was kind of creepy actually. Glad that stuff is over, as I now practice virtually N/C, limited to only emails. As time passes by, it amazes me how much she really lives in the now. She seems to have selective memory. Things she would percieve as acts/conversations against her could be remembered for 10 yrs. And be sure to use it to deflect, with current issues. Very frustrating. But issues concerning her (cheating, lying, manipulating) were quickly discarded, unresolved and left me in disbelief, and was supposed to not be a topic. More frustration.   
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C12P21
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« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2011, 10:21:53 PM »

Excerpt
Yes society does portray fantasy worlds, disney, soap operas, ect., ect., but for one to get stuck on this, and not mature emotionally with age, is fairly illogical at best. There is still plenty of reality to offset this, if one is perceptive. We all suffer from abandonment and intimacy issues, just some worse than others. Whether people deal with thier issues or not, is thier choice, not thier excuse 




I think unless you are a woman you cannot understand the depth of the problem. My response was in response to the posting. Cultural images are very powerful-they portray an expectation without stating a word. Our girls are lost to this image unless they have parents that shield them from such images and are mindful of the stories portraying women needing rescuing. I agree life is about choice-the choices are difficult when your value is often percieved on how you look versus your intelligence. If this were not so-why the choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate? Could anyone with political savvy convince themselves she was the equal of Clinton? There was a reason for her selection and it wasn't solely basedon her abilities or her looks. Certainly though her looks were a part of the appeal

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GallowsSunshine

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« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2011, 11:44:14 PM »

I have a very strong aversion to seeing gross generalizations about 20-something women. I'm not terribly far from that age, I remember it well. My experience has been most young women are nothing like the attention-starved monsters you describe. However, if one were looking for that type of woman, I'm sure they're easy enough to find.
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MindfulJavaJoe
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« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2011, 04:11:09 AM »

Mindful,

"What is ironic now is that I now know my uBPDw better now than she does herself"

She seems to have selective memory. Things she would percieve as acts/conversations against her could be remembered for 10 yrs. And be sure to use it to deflect, with current issues. Very frustrating. But issues concerning her (cheating, lying, manipulating) were quickly discarded, unresolved and left me in disbelief, and was supposed to not be a topic. More frustration.   

I have seen it written here that throughout the whole relationship it is like they are running a blackbox flight recorder. Ever incidident good or bad (as perceived by them is stored).

It is used later to create circular arguments, to deflect from the current issue you might be discussing, it is use to gaslight you, to eventuaqlly paint you black, it is used to push you buttons so that no matter how calmly to try to make tour point the longer an argument goes on you eventually react to their rage. The only way that I could sope in these situations was to get some head space and walk out of the house.

Incredibly although I was effectively driven out of the house I would be perceived by her, I now understand from another source, that I had abandoned HER!

I understand it now. At the time because I had no knowledge or reference point I was tied up in knots, completely baffled and pushed to the edge of despair. 

 
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sarah1234
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« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2011, 04:26:29 AM »

Excerpt
Yes society does portray fantasy worlds, disney, soap operas, ect., ect., but for one to get stuck on this, and not mature emotionally with age, is fairly illogical at best. There is still plenty of reality to offset this, if one is perceptive. We all suffer from abandonment and intimacy issues, just some worse than others. Whether people deal with thier issues or not, is thier choice, not thier excuse  




I think unless you are a woman you cannot understand the depth of the problem. My response was in response to the posting. Cultural images are very powerful-they portray an expectation without stating a word. Our girls are lost to this image unless they have parents that shield them from such images and are mindful of the stories portraying women needing rescuing. I agree life is about choice-the choices are difficult when your value is often percieved on how you look versus your intelligence. If this were not so-why the choice of Sarah Palin as a running mate? Could anyone with political savvy convince themselves she was the equal of Clinton? There was a reason for her selection and it wasn't solely basedon her abilities or her looks. Certainly though her looks were a part of the appeal

I recently posted about this increasing concern of mine (I am a woman, and I have daughters) through culture and the media. And the post is about women understanding men.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=145645.0

I think it is very hard to escape what the media and popular culture are expressing a woman should 'be like' for an impressionable young woman.

Disney comes at a time in life when children are very young, and although I think this notion is held onto, I really believe that the most impressionable (and concerning) time is in teenage years, when girls have grown out of Disney. Disney is fantasy, and girls soon come to realise this. But what they are then confronted with are the hard lined sexuality. And it is women who are contributing to this themselves. Ie. Rihanna, Kesha, those who probably become more of an influence than parents at some point. And it is a drip drip effect... .it is everywhere. And it is scary.

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JDoe
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« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2011, 07:51:17 AM »

Hello, MindfulJavaJoe!

  The therapist that I saw twice after leaving STBXH was likewise NOT familiar with the damage from a BPD relationship.  She advised me to re-read the 6 page letter he left in my car in several weeks, keeping an open mind to the fact that he had an abusive childhood, and consider working on mending the 20-year r/s.  Felt more like a marriage counselor than a T who wanted to help ME get/be/stay mentally healthy.

  After the second session, I discovered what anger feels like (never had allowed myself to feel it, as it seemed scary and inappropriate), went out and bought a punching bag, punched the heck out of it (still do when frustrated), and realized that aside from having spent 1/2 my life with a Borderline who diminished me to within an inch of my life, I was pretty darn healthy, emotionally!  Still feel that way.  Without all the crazy and the projecting and blaming, I'm a decent, contributing member of society.

  Bet you are, too.  Especially since you are more mindful of those people who do NOT enrich your life and are willing to limit contact with them and include people who do encourage you to be the best MJJ you can be!

  to ya, Brother!

JDoe
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MindfulJavaJoe
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« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2011, 08:41:27 AM »

  After the second session, I discovered what anger feels like (never had allowed myself to feel it, as it seemed scary and inappropriate), went out and bought a punching bag, punched the heck out of it (still do when frustrated), and realized that aside from having spent 1/2 my life with a Borderline who diminished me to within an inch of my life, I was pretty darn healthy, emotionally! 

Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am glad you found a healthy way to vent you anger.

I was never allowed to be angry in my relationship. As a consequence it was very hard to set boundaries. This lead to me being walked all over at times.

Eventually I realised something had to change when pushed to my limit and the edge.

I is great to have my life and my old self back  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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nowforsomethingdifferent
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« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2011, 12:51:18 PM »

The punching bag is pretty awesome, JDoe.  Good for you for finding a way to get it out. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Noob
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« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2011, 05:37:05 PM »

I have a very strong aversion to seeing gross generalizations about 20-something women. I'm not terribly far from that age, I remember it well. My experience has been most young women are nothing like the attention-starved monsters you describe. However, if one were looking for that type of woman, I'm sure they're easy enough to find.

Very well put. Though I am well past that age, I could not agree more!
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« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2011, 11:48:31 PM »

Mindful,

"What is ironic now is that I now know my uBPDw better now than she does herself"

She seems to have selective memory. Things she would percieve as acts/conversations against her could be remembered for 10 yrs. And be sure to use it to deflect, with current issues. Very frustrating. But issues concerning her (cheating, lying, manipulating) were quickly discarded, unresolved and left me in disbelief, and was supposed to not be a topic. More frustration.   

I have seen it written here that throughout the whole relationship it is like they are running a blackbox flight recorder. Ever incidident good or bad (as perceived by them is stored).

It is used later to create circular arguments, to deflect from the current issue you might be discussing, it is use to gaslight you, to eventuaqlly paint you black, it is used to push you buttons so that no matter how calmly to try to make tour point the longer an argument goes on you eventually react to their rage. The only way that I could sope in these situations was to get some head space and walk out of the house.

Incredibly although I was effectively driven out of the house I would be perceived by her, I now understand from another source, that I had abandoned HER!

I understand it now. At the time because I had no knowledge or reference point I was tied up in knots, completely baffled and pushed to the edge of despair. 

geez i could have written both of those posts. selective memory is such an understatement but those were both very good descriptions of what its like and what comes with it.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
MindfulJavaJoe
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« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2011, 04:16:30 AM »

Just to bring this topic back on track. Back to the diagnosis of BPD.

It seem to me that there is a school of thought that BPD does not exist. If you have lived it or if you are a therapist or psychiatric dealing with this then I suspect you cannot help but know it is real.

If your line of work as a mental health professional does not put you in contact with pwBPD then I would say your knowledge will not be great.

It is I understand somehting which is not tought about. Maybe it is too far down the syllabus or towasrd the end of all books on mental health.

Derpression, Bipolar and psychoses get all the attention. Personality disorders and BPD are was down the line.

I am not sure why the profile of BPD in so low. I would suspect that the average person is more likely to come into contact with  a pwBPD than Bipolar etc.

I think that "Borderline" as a label is not a helpful word. There seems to be a stigma attached to it.  :'(

As to whether it is real. It certainly fits with my experience. I can now predict my uBPDw patterns.

"Suprisingly there are now few suprises" when previously I would have thought "expect the unexpected".

Considering the havoc that pwBPD have the potential to create in the lives of others I am amazed that this diagnosis does not have a much higher profile. 

MJJ

   
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sea5045
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« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2011, 05:15:41 PM »



It is used later to create circular arguments, to deflect from the current issue you might be discussing, it is use to gaslight you, to eventuaqlly paint you black, it is used to push you buttons so that no matter how calmly to try to make tour point the longer an argument goes on you eventually react to their rage. The only way that I could sope in these situations was to get some head space and walk out of the house.

That was my experience entirely, the cupboards would start banging when she would clean on weekends, and I knew somehow the organization and cleaning were something to do with me, and I would run out and go have breakfast and return to calm person 90 minutes later. I would also take my dogs to the park across the street, and sit for 30 minutes or so, I think I was being gas lighted at the time, but I don't remember details just got out of dodge, bc I knew I was always going to be the blame of whatever slight was on her mind... .

Where's my keys? Where is the driver's license form, did you take my red shirt, why aren't the dishes done, actually my neighbor says other neighbors used to comment on the F... .k you's they heard, and I said it was probably me bc there was never any communication or resolution and finally I would react  "F... .K You and leave the house, come back, and probably apologized for swearing, never getting any sort of apology or acknowledgement of the craziness of her words or behavior... .
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2011, 01:04:01 PM »

Mindful,

My wife got me to leave house for few days, to supposedly work our issues out. She then proceeded to start new r/s. Then started poison with kids saying I abandoned the family. I quickly proved this wrong, read Divorce Poison and somewhat righted the ship. Unbelievable, that she could steer kids this way, it was like Houdini or something. But in her mind, I know she really feels this way. As the first time she cheated on me(that I can confirm) I had conversation with her, before I went to jail for the night. These were exact words. " I wanted you to come find me". Huh, dont cheaters usually not want to be found out? This later was lost in chaos, but has surfaced in my thoughts, as I have learned about BPD. As I watched the second affair play out (DEJAVUE), and I navigated through the fog. My subconcious told me to run like hell, here is your chance.

    On the subject of how many BPDers are out there. Im only 6-7 months removed, meeting new people now. I know Im very gaurded, and dont even fathom a serios r/s. But there are a ton of single women out there, with at least, very strong traits of BPD, if they are not. Further more. With the only effective way of treating BPD, being an Eastern type of medicine. (naturally, through therapy) Until they develope a pill, that the great perscription machine can jump on, it will fly under the radar.
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