Considering reconnecting with an exBPD

[hijodeganas]

I'm not sure which board to post this on, so I posted it on both... .if the moderator feels it's inappropriate for this board, please take it off.

I broke up with a borderline about a month ago and only recently found out that she has BPD.  I've moved on (got a new GF, got my life together), but with my new found awareness I feel that I could be of more help to her, as a friend.

Problem was, after the break up I cut her off completely: I deleted her off facebook and other social networks and even asked some of my friends to cut her off (most of them complied).  She made an angry phone call to me soon after and I haven't heard from her since.

I am still in touch with some of her friends, and am considering reconnecting with her either directly or through them.

My questions are:

*Is this even possible?  Or am I more likely completely cut off?

*Has anyone ever done this or tried this?  If so, what happened?

*To what extent can I actually be of practical help (in helping her open up or helping her consider taking therapy) and to what extent am I fantastizing?

[2010]

I broke up with a borderline about a month ago. I've moved on

You've "moved on."

I cut her off completely: I deleted her and even asked some of my friends to cut her off (most of them complied).

Your friends were asked to "cut her off."  For some reason, possibly to show their loyalty to you- they complied.

(got a new GF, got my life together)

A new girlfriend makes three in this scenario. What do you suppose she would think about your reconnection? You probably know the answer.

*Is this even possible?  Or am I more likely completely cut off?

*Has anyone ever done this or tried this?  If so, what happened?

*To what extent can I actually be of practical help (in helping her open up or helping her consider taking therapy) and to what extent am I fantastizing?

"Is it with greater kindness that you step away."

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

You might want to stay to help your partner. You might want to disclose to them that they have borderline personality disorder and help them get into therapy. Maybe you want to help in other ways while still maintaining a “friendship”.

The fact is, we are no longer in a position to be the caretaker and support person for our “BPD” partner – no matter how well intentioned.

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

We also need to question your own motives and your expectations for wanting to help. Is this kindness or a type “well intentioned” manipulation on your part - an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which they suffer?

More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we are attempt to help anyone else.

You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival.

If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away. Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.

  https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

[hijodeganas]

Very appropriate response, thank you.

However, I have a girlfriend now, and I realize that I would be useless if not even damaging as a boyfriend to my ex (which is why I wasn't sure which board to post this under).  But I've considered being one (among several) who she could reach out to if she just wants to hang out or have someone to express how she's feeling.

She seemed to show signs of getting better, or at least understanding that she has a problem.  If she didn't, I wouldn't consider this.

Also, two caveats:

1.  It would be an offer.  I feel no need to "demand" that she maintain a friendship with me.  If she's already getting plenty of sympathy or help from others, fine.  I'll leave her alone.

2.  She would have to agree to get SERIOUS help as well.  If she just wants me to vent and whine to, then I'm not interested.  I'm only interested in helping those who want to help themselves.

Thanks for the response.

[yianks69]

*Is this even possible?  Or am I more likely completely cut off?

*Has anyone ever done this or tried this?  If so, what happened?

*To what extent can I actually be of practical help (in helping her open up or helping her consider taking therapy) and to what extent am I fantastizing?

I have reconnected with my xBPDgf numerous times and each time the pain was much worst than the previous one.

If you are cut off (which is unlikely due to their untreated abandonment fear) consider yourself a very lucky man as you will be able to really move on.

Personally, I am faced with the reality that people with BPD do NOT want to be helped and treated by a T unless it is their choice. We are not professionals and we cannot treat or assist them in any matter.

If a friend of yours comes to you with a serious injury, any effort on your part to heal the injury might make it worst, unless you are a qualified doctor.

[hijodeganas]

*Is this even possible?  Or am I more likely completely cut off?

*Has anyone ever done this or tried this?  If so, what happened?

*To what extent can I actually be of practical help (in helping her open up or helping her consider taking therapy) and to what extent am I fantastizing?

If you are cut off (which is unlikely due to their untreated abandonment fear) consider yourself a very lucky man as you will be able to really move on.

Personally, I am faced with the reality that people with BPD do NOT want to be helped and treated by a T unless it is their choice. We are not professionals and we cannot treat or assist them in any matter.

If a friend of yours comes to you with a serious injury, any effort on your part to heal the injury might make it worst, unless you a qualified doctor.

Those are very good points.

I don't have any fantasties about "rescuing" her or "saving" her.  My second caveat was there because I know that by myself I can't help her.  If she's willing to get help, and she's committed to it then I'd like to be part of her life.  Otherwise, I'd rather not be.

In any case, I cut her out, and she didn't seem to take it well, so I highly doubt that she'd want me back in her life anyway.

I have reconnected with my xBPDgf numerous times and each time the pain was much worst than the previous one.

[captainkirkz]

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

Great post 2010.

Just one point i would like to make. I know myself that i triggered my ex but i don't take it personally as it is emotional intimacy that triggers her and not ME as a person. The next emotionally intimate host, same outcome.

Every host will 'fire the gun' at some point.

[confused!!!]

2.  She would have to agree to get SERIOUS help as well.  If she just wants me to vent and whine to, then I'm not interested.  I'm only interested in helping those who want to help themselves.

Sounds like conditional friendship? Personally I wouldn't want a friend who imposed conditions on the friendship... .

Per my therapist's advice, if I want to (re)engage with someone, I need to be prepared to accept them exactly as they are right now. Sage advice.

[hijodeganas]

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

Great post 2010.

Just one point i would like to make. I know myself that i triggered my ex but i don't take it personally as it is emotional intimacy that triggers her and not ME as a person. The next emotionally intimate host, same outcome.

Every host will 'fire the gun' at some point.

Good point.  I think I can be objective enough at this point to deal with the rages and outbursts, now that I know what it's about.

[hijodeganas]

2.  She would have to agree to get SERIOUS help as well.  If she just wants me to vent and whine to, then I'm not interested.  I'm only interested in helping those who want to help themselves.

Sounds like conditional friendship? Personally I wouldn't want a friend who imposed conditions on the friendship... .

Per my therapist's advice, if I want to (re)engage with someone, I need to be prepared to accept them exactly as they are right now. Sage advice.

to me, accepting a BPD unconditionally is the same as enabling it.  I'm not saying she has to change over night, that's unrealistic.  But if she's not showing me that she's making a genuine effort to deal with her problem then I don't want to enable her into thinking the way she behaves is ok.  If she just wants "hosts" she can find someone else, fine with me.

[yianks69]

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

Do you believe that this trigger(s) fades away with time (especially if there is NC) or is it ‘once there, always there’?

[Suzn]

Why is it that you think she has to show you anything? Why is it that you think she could possibly seperate you being an ex, one who triggers her, from a friend? Not to mention you have a gf who will be affected by this 'attempt' at a friendship? That might be all good if your ex wasnt BPD but she is. The potential for 3 people getting deeply hurt would push this idea far out of my thoughts.

[hijodeganas]

She doesn't "have to" do anything.  It's her choice.

I don't know if she could separate me or not.  Please realize, this is my first time dealing with this.  I don't know what to expect, hence the questions.

Why is it that you think she has to show you anything? Why is it that you think she could possibly seperate you being an ex, one who triggers her, from a friend? Not to mention you have a gf who will be affected by this 'attempt' at a friendship? That might be all good if your ex wasnt BPD but she is. The potential for 3 people getting deeply hurt would push this idea far out of my thoughts.

[captainkirkz]

Do you believe that this trigger(s) fades away with time (especially if there is NC) or is it ‘once there, always there’?

Having had 2 separate r/s with the same girl 14 years apart with the same outcome(Shoot me ) i would say that it is ONLY emotional intimacy that triggers them IMHO and my experience. We remained electronic friends(text/email/phone) in the intervening 12 years or so and she showed no sign whatsoever of me triggering her then. Only when it got to the stage where she felt that i had given my heart and soul to her did she start revealing her true self. The behaviour was so similar both times that it could have been taken from a script.

I did actually comment to her that, as it stands, that she seems totally together when there are no emotional triggers. I suggested that if she was happy that way(a lifestyle that would feel totally empty to me), that she shouldn't keep roping new hosts in in future as it quite obviously didn't work for her and to just live her life with some sort of continuity and to satisfy any sexual needs with some casual weekend stuff without getting involved.

That went down like a lead balloon as it does and just triggered her again. I saw the light and stopped offering advice and started concentrating on myself!

[hijodeganas]

That's an interesting insight that I've just recently started considering:

Most non PD people can, in one form or another, find love and happiness and fulfilling relationships.  Do you think this is AT ALL possible for BPDs?

I compared it to physical handicaps.  If you are paralyzed from the waist down it doesn't matter how badly you want it, you're never going to be a professional basketball player.  Is this comparable to BPD and finding meaningful, loving relationships?  Sure, everybody WANTS one, probably BPDs most of all, but is it simply just not viable for them and are they then better off just accepting that?

Do you believe that this trigger(s) fades away with time (especially if there is NC) or is it ‘once there, always there’?

Having had 2 separate r/s with the same girl 14 years apart with the same outcome(Shoot me ) i would say that it is ONLY emotional intimacy that triggers them IMHO and my experience. We remained electronic friends(text/email/phone) in the intervening 12 years or so and she showed no sign whatsoever of me triggering her then. Only when it got to the stage where she felt that i had given my heart and soul to her did she start revealing her true self. The behaviour was so similar both times that it could have been taken from a script.

I did actually comment to her that, as it stands, that she seems totally together when there are no emotional triggers. I suggested that if she was happy that way(a lifestyle that would feel totally empty to me), that she shouldn't keep roping new hosts in in future as it quite obviously didn't work for her and to just live her life with some sort of continuity and to satisfy any sexual needs with some casual weekend stuff without getting involved.

That went down like a lead balloon as it does and just triggered her again. I saw the light and stopped offering advice and started concentrating on myself!

[captainkirkz]

That's an interesting insight that I've just recently started considering:

Most non PD people can, in one form or another, find love and happiness and fulfilling relationships.  :)o you think this is AT ALL possible for BPDs?

I compared it to physical handicaps.  If you are paralyzed from the waist down it doesn't matter how badly you want it, you're never going to be a professional basketball player.  Is this comparable to BPD and finding meaningful, loving relationships?  Sure, everybody WANTS one, probably BPDs most of all, but is it simply just not viable for them and are they then better off just accepting that?

That's the point though hijodeganas they WON'T accept that. They crave love and normality as far as i can see but(to use your own analogy) they are paralysed but from the neck up!

They end up chasing that ideal over and over to fulfil that overwhelming NEED, leaving car crashes in their wake.

[hijodeganas]

That's an interesting insight that I've just recently started considering:

Most non PD people can, in one form or another, find love and happiness and fulfilling relationships.  :)o you think this is AT ALL possible for BPDs?

I compared it to physical handicaps.  If you are paralyzed from the waist down it doesn't matter how badly you want it, you're never going to be a professional basketball player.  Is this comparable to BPD and finding meaningful, loving relationships?  Sure, everybody WANTS one, probably BPDs most of all, but is it simply just not viable for them and are they then better off just accepting that?

That's the point though hijodeganas they WON'T accept that. They crave love and normality as far as i can see but(to use your own analogy) they are paralysed but from the neck up!

They end up chasing that ideal over and over to fulfil that overwhelming NEED, leaving car crashes in their wake.

I had this realization while watching a video about a guy with no arms and legs who gives motivational speeches.  After one of his seminars he did an interview and the interviewer asked him ":)o you ever wish you had arms and legs?"  And he said "Sure I do, but this is my life; I just need to accept myself as I am."

In other words, even though basically everybody else gets to have appendages, he doesn't, and there's nothing he can do but accept that.

Then it occurred to me: Maybe people with PDs are in the same boat: Everybody else gets to have normal, healthy loving relationships, and they just don't, and there's nothing they can do but accept that (or, at least accept the fact that they won't accept it).  Complicated!

[hijodeganas]

Something occurred to me about my ex:  Other than her BPD, she was a really awesome person.  She was great looking, highly functioning, very intelligent, in shape, etc.  Other than the fact that she has a craving for being loved, she's otherwise a pretty normal person.  I wondered, if she could accept the fact that she could never have a normal romantic relationship, could she be "happier"?

But even before we were together she was obsessed with love.  She'd post quotes about love on facebook and ask all kinds of deep, philosophical questions about it; how to get it, what it meant, how to love someone and be loved, etc.

[captainkirkz]

Something occurred to me about my ex:  Other than her BPD, she was a really awesome person.  She was great looking, highly functioning, very intelligent, in shape, etc.  Other than the fact that she has a craving for being loved, she's otherwise a pretty normal person.  I wondered, if she could accept the fact that she could never have a normal romantic relationship, could she be "happier"?

But even before we were together she was obsessed with love.  She'd post quotes about love on facebook and ask all kinds of deep, philosophical questions about it; how to get it, what it meant, how to love someone and be loved, etc.

I would say the same about my ex. She made a fantastic friend to be honest which is why i went back for a 2nd bite of the apple.

They won't be happier will they? Living without that love they crave. Only we know how that feels and it totally eludes them. They would have far more stability living without emotional triggers but how empty is that?

[hijodeganas]

I don't know if it's empty.  I'm a psychology major and studies have shown that people who have a passion about something, whether it's music or sports or whatever, can be just as happy single as people in highly functioning relationships.  It's highly unusual but people can achieve happiness without having a SO.

However, the inability to relate to even friends or family could make it difficult... .

Interesting how you note you were fantastic as friends.  My ex and I knew each other for a year, and she struck me as really positive, outgoing and happy.  Up until we made it official everything, including the sex, was a blast.  Almost immediately after we got serious it changed, though.

I wonder, though: Would even a friendship have lasted that long?

Something occurred to me about my ex:  Other than her BPD, she was a really awesome person.  She was great looking, highly functioning, very intelligent, in shape, etc.  Other than the fact that she has a craving for being loved, she's otherwise a pretty normal person.  I wondered, if she could accept the fact that she could never have a normal romantic relationship, could she be "happier"?

But even before we were together she was obsessed with love.  She'd post quotes about love on facebook and ask all kinds of deep, philosophical questions about it; how to get it, what it meant, how to love someone and be loved, etc.

I would say the same about my ex. She made a fantastic friend to be honest which is why i went back for a 2nd bite of the apple.

They won't be happier will they? Living without that love they crave. Only we know how that feels and it totally eludes them. They would have far more stability living without emotional triggers but how empty is that?

[captainkirkz]

I don't know if it's empty.  I'm a psychology major and studies have shown that people who have a passion about something, whether it's music or sports or whatever, can be just as happy single as people in highly functioning relationships.  It's highly unusual but people can achieve happiness without having a SO.

However, the inability to relate to even friends or family could make it difficult... .

Interesting how you note you were fantastic as friends.  My ex and I knew each other for a year, and she struck me as really positive, outgoing and happy.  Up until we made it official everything, including the sex, was a blast.  Almost immediately after we got serious it changed, though.

I wonder, though: Would even a friendship have lasted that long?

Yes hijodeganas, i see your point.

The people you mention though, the ones that are happy without a SO and are passionate about a hobby/interest(assuming they are nonBPD). They have free will don't they, so it is a conscious decision to live alone whereas a BPD has no sense of self and therefore no free will. They are subject to the constraints that their illness places upon them and therefore cannot make the same choice as a non. They are slaves to their own jumbled emotions and act out accordingly. What do you think?

[hijodeganas]

That's a great question that I don't have an answer for.  However, right now it seems that although BPDs have a very burdensome disorder, they are STILL cognitive of their behavior and thus CAN change (although I'm sure most of them don't know HOW, much less BELIEVE they can; two requisites for the ability to alter your own behavior).

I don't know how debiliting the actual disorder is; I've never been BPD.  But from what I've heard and read it is an IMMENSE challenge, but they CAN take steps to start getting in control of their situation.  It is a lifelong process and it will NEVER be as easy for them as it is for a nonBPD, but from what information I've gathered I've come to the conclusion that it IS possible for them to control their behavior (not their thought process or emotions, though) to some extent.

I don't know if it's empty.  I'm a psychology major and studies have shown that people who have a passion about something, whether it's music or sports or whatever, can be just as happy single as people in highly functioning relationships.  It's highly unusual but people can achieve happiness without having a SO.

However, the inability to relate to even friends or family could make it difficult... .

Interesting how you note you were fantastic as friends.  My ex and I knew each other for a year, and she struck me as really positive, outgoing and happy.  Up until we made it official everything, including the sex, was a blast.  Almost immediately after we got serious it changed, though.

I wonder, though: Would even a friendship have lasted that long?

Yes hijodeganas, i see your point.

The people you mention though, the ones that are happy without a SO and are passionate about a hobby/interest(assuming they are nonBPD). They have free will don't they, so it is a conscious decision to live alone whereas a BPD has no sense of self and therefore no free will. They are subject to the constraints that their illness places upon them and therefore cannot make the same choice as a non. They are slaves to their own jumbled emotions and act out accordingly. What do you think?

[captainkirkz]

However, right now it seems that although BPDs have a very burdensome disorder, they are STILL cognitive of their behavior and thus CAN change (although I'm sure most of them don't know HOW, much less BELIEVE they can; two requisites for the ability to alter your own behavior).

I don't know how debiliting the actual disorder is; I've never been BPD.  But from what I've heard and read it is an IMMENSE challenge, but they CAN take steps to start getting in control of their situation.  It is a lifelong process and it will NEVER be as easy for them as it is for a nonBPD, but from what information I've gathered I've come to the conclusion that it IS possible for them to control their behavior (not their thought process or emotions, though) to some extent.

Well hijodeganas with that insight, you maybe one of a new generation of psychologists that offer BPD's the help they deserve rather than(from what i've read so far) them being ostracised from the mental health process. They need someone!

[hijodeganas]

Haha!  Sounds great, but honestly personality disorders is not my calling.  I have a lot of respect for psychologists who devote themselves to improving PDs' lives because it certainly FEELS hopeless.  But yeah, I'd like to hope for the best; I suffered from clinical depression for over a year, so I can somewhat relate to the feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness, and believing that you're just "stuck" with your debilitating personality.  It's not a good feeling.

However, right now it seems that although BPDs have a very burdensome disorder, they are STILL cognitive of their behavior and thus CAN change (although I'm sure most of them don't know HOW, much less BELIEVE they can; two requisites for the ability to alter your own behavior).

I don't know how debiliting the actual disorder is; I've never been BPD.  But from what I've heard and read it is an IMMENSE challenge, but they CAN take steps to start getting in control of their situation.  It is a lifelong process and it will NEVER be as easy for them as it is for a nonBPD, but from what information I've gathered I've come to the conclusion that it IS possible for them to control their behavior (not their thought process or emotions, though) to some extent.

Well hijodeganas with that insight, you maybe one of a new generation of psychologists that offer BPD's the help they deserve rather than(from what i've read so far) them being ostracised from the mental health process. They need someone!

[captainkirkz]

Haha!  Sounds great, but honestly personality disorders is not my calling.  I have a lot of respect for psychologists who devote themselves to improving PDs' lives because it certainly FEELS hopeless.  But yeah, I'd like to hope for the best; I suffered from clinical depression for over a year, so I can somewhat relate to the feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness, and believing that you're just "stuck" with your debilitating personality.  It's not a good feeling.

Yea, imagine being projected too on a daily basis by not one, but a whole army of different BPDs. Jeez those boys would have to be tough cookies!

Glad you sorted your own problems out!

[BlushAndBashful]

Have you asked your current gf how she would feel about this?

I like to think I'm pretty open, honest, forgiving, and go-with-the flow... .and I tend not to be jealous... .but I think I might be shooting pea green soup out of my ears if my bf did this. Just my 2 cents' worth.

[hijodeganas]

Have you asked your current gf how she would feel about this?

I like to think I'm pretty open, honest, forgiving, and go-with-the flow... .and I tend not to be jealous... .but I think I might be shooting pea green soup out of my ears if my bf did this. Just my 2 cents' worth.

Good question.  Yes, I decided to talk to her before I did anything.

She's an extremely understanding person; she also has a exbfPD, so she somewhat understands where I'm coming from.

She's naturally worried; she knows it was an intense relationship (my relationship with my current GF is much more peaceful and calm) and expressed worry over me being tempted to go back.

I understand her worry, but honestly she has nothing to fear: I'd rather have my manhood bitten off by a German Shepard than go back into a romantic relationship with that woman.

The only conditions in which I'd consider reconnecting with my ex would be if she can accept that I'll be her friend and nothing more AND she is making a genuine effort to get help.  Otherwise, I'm out of there, no looking back.

[captainkirkz]

This was part of my last email to my ex before going NC

"Whether you decide to live in the safe but empty bubble or enrich your life by ironing out your issues is entirely your call. It's your life and the only help i can ever be now is in the role i occupied before ... .as one of your greatest friends. I know a lot has gone on but my dearest wish would be for us to be friends again. I don't judge you. i never did. We all have things that we have to plough through, don't plough through it alone!"

The offer is there with boundaries in place and i won't break them!

N.B. It would be a strictly electronic friendship, no physical presence!

[hijodeganas]

Yeah, that's essentially my goal.

Initially I just wanted to go completely NC, cut her off 100%.

But I watched this guy's videos on you tube and changed my mind:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1o2tORz1tc

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do6owMR1hSY&feature=relmfu

I thought I might actually be able to help, but only if she's as motivated as this guy seems to be.

Have you heard from her since that last email?

This was part of my last email to my ex before going NC

"Whether you decide to live in the safe but empty bubble or enrich your life by ironing out your issues is entirely your call. It's your life and the only help i can ever be now is in the role i occupied before ... .as one of your greatest friends. I know a lot has gone on but my dearest wish would be for us to be friends again. I don't judge you. i never did. We all have things that we have to plough through, don't plough through it alone!"

The offer is there with boundaries in place and i won't break them!

N.B. It would be a strictly electronic friendship, no physical presence!

[captainkirkz]

Have you heard from her since that last email?

No mate. Not a peep! I don't really expect to yet and i'm not holding my breath at all. Her past form says she will at some point though.

[hijodeganas]

Have you heard from her since that last email?

No mate. Not a peep! I don't really expect to yet and i'm not holding my breath at all. Her past form says she will at some point though.

Hmm... .I'm wondering, it's been about 2-3 weeks since she called me to harass me about asking my friends not talk to her.

How long does it usually take for BPDs to re-engage?  Do BPDs often go NC?