Anyone confront their ex about smearing? I want to

[Diana82]

My exgf was always smearing her exes. One was emotionally abusive and sexually degrading and another was frigid and never wanted her- who later changed to being a rapist/predator. Every woman she had dated had apparently  tried to grope her in public and had been obsessive and stalked her. Nothing nice was EVER said about any woman. She had been "abused" by everyone in some way.

She had cut a lot of people out of her life- me included.

So my ex dumps me and tells me I burnt her and to leave her alone. She ignores all my attempts to apologise... Rejects my calls... ends up changing her number and going 100% no contact. She doesn't even reply after I ask her for my things to be returned. I asked for months and she kept ignoring me. I had to then go to her flatmate/best friend to get him to help arrange for me to get my stuff.  He then abuses me on the phone telling me "She doesn't have your stuff ok! She doesn't want to talk to you. She wants you OUT of her life. Move on! You've been contacting her for months and it's unacceptable!"

I said "well I was contacting her to retrieve my stuff and she had ignored me! That's why I have contacted her"

He talked over me "Youll NEVER get closure from her! Move on. Don't ever contact her. Do not contact me. Dont contact her family!" and he hung up

Wow. I was shaking almost in tears

She clearly had told him I was bothering her non stop for no reason and was playing protector. YET she was the one deliberately ignoring me. I felt set up to look like a harasser!

Since then I have never contacted her again and I did not get my stuff back. But a mutual friend told me she had gone around saying I was a crazy stalker.

She is trying to ruin my credibility. my hometown has a really small gay community too. I'm concerned.

She only talks hogwash but what if next she claims I abused her or even lies that I tried assaulting her? She most likely fabricated most of her abuse stories (as I found out she lied about one stalker). So what terrible untruths will be said about me next!

All the other women never knew about the slander and so it continued. I do know. I want to write to my ex to tell her to stop the bs slander and that I and my family are all aware of her smearing antics and won't tolerate it. 

Thoughts?

[Surnia]

Don't do it. You cannot control her. You cannot reach her.

It will come like a boomerang back to you.

[Diana82]

But I could potentially have damaging stuff said about me.

I know I should ignore her rubbish but if she can lie about having this one stalker, say her ex tried to rape her etc... What could she say about me?

She knows many people in the community and I am fearful I will be branded as abusive too.

Whereas if I tell her that I and others are aware of her smearing and won't tolerate it- maybe she will stop

[Surnia]

Okay, lets take a closer look to your fears.

What is your worst fear, what will happen when she is talking damaging stuff about you?

[Diana82]

The lesbian community in my hometown is very small. My ex already said I am a crazy stalker and I know she knows more people than I do and has a massive family.

 I'm sure she hasn't told her parents I abused her but she probably will tell her friends and cousins.

I know that my friends and family know the truth and that my ex is unstable. But I still feel like my ex should not continue to get away with ruining people's credibility in the community.  She clearly has a modus operandi... you hurt or argue with her and you will be discarded and smeared and called an abuser to anyone who will listen.

I want her to know people have worked her out and she cannot get away with slandering me 

[Surnia]

My ex already said I am a crazy stalker and I know she knows more people than I do and has a massive family.

So sort of damage is done already.

I know that my friends and family know the truth and that my ex is unstable.

Good. Good friends don't get caught be rumors.

you hurt or argue with her and you will be discarded and smeared and called an abuser to anyone who will listen.

Thats exactly why I think the best is not to confront her. Doing so you are feeding her with more arguments. This is the boomerang.

[VeryConfusedNon]

I know i'm taking this out of context.

you know how loyal some people can be as friends, but this one comment popped out for me "Youll NEVER get closure from her! Move on. Don't ever contact her. Do not contact me. Dont contact her family!"

Do you perhaps,think he knows about her? Basically he is telling you "you'll never get closure, I KNOW HER better than you, I know about her past, you will NEVER GET CLOSURE!, however I am her good friend and must stand up for her"

My ex's best friend? (female)

"break up with him before you break his heart"

said it So very often, even when she was the one way more interested in me.

[Seb]

I know how frustrating it is when someone is smearing you to others, but personally I'd let it go. Let your actions do the talking. Forget about her. Let her talk trash - people will soon start to see some disparity between what she's saying and who you really are. Even if you have to fake it, you can't show how much she's affecting you, because you will come off as the crazy stalker. You have to project an image of someone that's happy and getting on with your life, not someone that is obsessing about the unjust behaviour and accusations of an ex. Ignore what she's saying, the sooner you do the sooner she'll move on.

You've mentioned lots in your other threads that you were thinking about taking a job in Sydney or in London but your ex never wanted to go. Have you thought about that any more? Might be the perfect opportunity for you to start moving on with your life?

[Diana82]

Hi veryconfused...

Yes, you may have a point there...

My friends have said "he must know about her"

And I have also thought that how can her family not know she *may * be unstable? I know her parents already think she is very sensitive.

They're all smart people and wouldn't they know there's always two sides to every story? I was literally at the bedside of my ex's new born nephew two weeks prior to the break up. Her parents really liked me. They can't truly believe I would have turned into a crazy overnight.

But they appear to be her enablers.

[Diana82]

I do actually think my ex has some insight into her own issues yet she doesn't seem to see how they impact others. She only sees a therapist every few years and for only 2-3 sessions max.

Before breaking up with me she was sobbing " I'm a lonely person- I was lonely before I met you". I have been so confused at why she would say that before dumping my ass!

I'm now starting to think that it was her way of telling me she has issues and that I am not really to blame but perhaps was just a trigger.

Also while dumping me she said that she couldn't look past it and felt that Everytime we argued- she emotionally disconnected from me more each time. And she added "maybe it's  a personality fault of mine"

[VeryConfusedNon]

Mine definitely does, I did not have any "FOG' so to speak of, if by this term, you mean searching for answers and discovering BPD, she basically spoon fed it to me on day 2, I just did a quick readover of the DMS-IV and left it at that. Big mistake? maybe.

Later on when she felt very lonely via LDR "I'm sorry your first gf had to be so crazy".

Thought it was cute, in a way that I felt, validated, that someone actually liked me so much, they'd feel crazy.

I now think she was being pretty literal about it.

If he knows her at all, he knows. My ex's friends have said her views or whatever are "f'ed up", or... how she views guys, yet she craves a relationship.

Did you ex (i know you are coming from a same sex relationship), ever say she was bisexual, or actually straight?, maybe at the beginning of the relationship if you were trying to tear down walls/barriers?

Their closest friends know... .  They know.

I hope.

I need more boundaries, I've told SO MANY people, especially after this past new years with copious amounts of alcohol. No doubt in a certain way, or if future situations are manipulated correctly, i will be seen as the crazy one.

It's best just to, if anything, go crazy here on these boards than attempt to make contact with the ex... .  and/or tell more people in real life about it.

[Diana82]

I did speak to a mutual friend about her crazy smearing and asked if he could please let me know if he hears anything from her. He hasn't so far and no longer keeps in touch with my ex.

But let's just say... I heard that this time I was not only a stalker but she had told people I tried to force myself on her (similar to what she said about her other ex)?

Isn't that slander? To accuse someone of something like assault even if it's not in court... She is spreading vicious rumours to harm someone's credibility .

I fell for her lies about having stalkers and am pretty sure she lied about almost being raped.  Again I believed it all and I'm sure everyone else would.

It's scary how well she can lie and distort events. She is a professional victim

[OFFtheTopRope]

Do NOT do it unless you wanna still be "defending" yourself this time next yr and the one after that, the rest of your life obsessed with clearing your name.  I mean this.  Ive done it.  Every single contact you make will be perceived as "stalkerish or creepy".  You will be defying her (in her mind) and the hate and resentment will just build.  If you EVER hhave hope of "reaching" her, dont.  You have been painted black and she is in the justifying stages to portray ymou badly, recruit ppl to join her "side", in order to avoid taking responsibility for any (or all) part she had in the breakup.  Convincing herself you are Satan is her twisted coping strategy.  Its primal, it kills you, its not fair.  Youre talking like making peace or appealing honestly to a BPD is possible.  Logic and empathy elude them.  Its just not in the makeup!  


I want to stress that is does NOT matter how selfless, appealing, well composed, intelligent, earnest, loving, adamant, frustrated, sympathetic, angry, apologetic, sacrificing, pissed off, logical, merciful or defensive of your own integrity you are!  Whatever words - i mean ANY will be taken as offensive and scary, setting her off in another tailspin of terror and smearing.  :)oing this will brush you with a fresh coat of black BPD paint.  Hard to understand?  Yes, i tried so long to get my head arond What the heck happened to the girl who usedbto hang onto my every word and just couldnt live without me.  Truth:  she is GONE, you neither won nor lost.  BPD overrules any gesture of humanity and sincerity.  Period!

Now if its one aspect i know what im talking about, its the fear and helplessness you feel on top of all this hurt.  The mortal pain ive endured for over a year of this kinda smear treatment is exhausting!  Know what?  Your ex lady is also deaf.  Ya keep thinking if you get more creative, say it just a little bit louder or differently, maybe theyll "hear" you.  Maybe theyll remember times you all shared, maybe a small part of her will "miss" you and snap out of it.  No, there is NONE of this.  

I started a thread last wk called "does she really hate me"?  You might ck out some of the great responses!  Its along the same lines youre talking about.  But please, please, please dont go down the same path i took on the pride & defense wagon.  My miserable smear campaign kept going everytime id wait a while then TRY contacting again in above ways.  There is no cooling off period or time healing any of their wounds.  Im sure in 10yrs if i broke NC again, my ex would still rage at me as if it just happened.  Again & again round the wheel we go.  

Ppl here are right.  Try to cut off all channels she has to you.  This may inc losing friends she may use as proxies .  Mines BS lies made me turn around and noone was left.  No kidding. Dont fuel her fire.  Youve already been burned.  Now its time to find your own internal closure.  Educate yourself on BPD, study NON codependent traits and behavior, and see your ex for who she REALLY is based on her abrupt and crazy actions.  Im still trying to pull out of the hook of "hanging onto the words they said".  

If you can endure this, you can endure anything!  Post here when you get the urge to break NC.

[Diana82]

My friend said something interesting to me today... she said my ex is in fact the abuser. The bully.

My ex spent so much time slandering other people for being abusive and bullies. She was always the poor victim.

But it is her who spreads malicous rumours. She is the one who brutally cuts people out of her life and gives the silent treatment even if someone is struggling. She is the one who cannot take responsibility for her own actions and will slam you if you criticise her.

She is a master manipulator and anyone will believe her as she is the most charming and seemingly genuine and warm person you could meet. It's true... my ex was very likeable. My whole family liked her instantly. She gives off an air of being stable and mature and kind.

It's hard for me to think of my ex has the one who is actually the abuser. What do you think?

[MaybeSo]

A relationship with a person who struggles with something like a personality disorder is going to be experienced as abusive, at least emotionally, sooner or later.

That's the nature of the disorder and the chaos and  hurt it causes.

So, yah... .  she's an abuser... .  I doubt she lays awake at night plotting abuse; rather, it's the nature of this confusing disorder that she will behave in ways that are hurtful and confusing to those she is close to, and they will expereince it as emotional abuse; how bad this gets or how long it goes on... .  moves into how well you take care of yourself, or not, and how grounded you are about your own boundaries.

I'm not an attorney.  There's an area on this forum that deals with legal issues, divorce, separation etc., and they may have more insight into what legally defines slander.  From past reads, I beleive in court you would have to prove that she has directly and  materially damaged you.  That's a hard thing to prove, and probably not worth it (the time and expense) even if you could.  If she created an organized campaign intending wrongfully to put you out of business with slanderous lies, and you could prove that, then... .  you might have a case.

What you are mostly talking describing right now is opinion and sour grapes shared with personal mutual freinds about someone after an r/s ended, with the fear that it might move into something more seriously slanderous. 

Bottom line you cannot control her.  People aren't stupid.  Anyone who has seen her in action over time knows... .  oh, there goes another relationship down the drain, wonder what evil deed this one did?  Those who don't see that, oh well.

You can't control people!  A small community would 'learn' about how someone operates over time.

BTW, The neighbors advice was spot on. Spot on.

If you pursue this in any way going forward, you are essentially helping her case that you can't let go and move on... .  you are assisting her potential argument that you are a stalker, or a harasser.

If you have valuable items of material worth still at her place, and it's gotten this contentious, most folks use a neutral go between or failing that, call the sheriff and with police assistance arrange a time to pick things up with supervision.

I'm sorry, I know you have been shocked about her reactions and how unreasonable she has been, but, of course, she did over time complain to you about all her past lovers, so of course, not surprising,  now it's your turn... .  she is showing you over and over again how her head works and how she operates.  She gets close to someone then that person in her mind turns into a tormentor or persecutor... .  this is how her mind works, this is how intimacy plays out for her. She was showing you that earlier, too.  She sounds pretty emotionally messed up.  It's not personal to you... .  this is what "emotionally messed-up" looks like.  It's not about you or anyone specifically... .  unless you refuse to detach.  If you stay attached in any manner, it's going to devolve into being a lot about you (even though it isn't at face value about you at all)... .  by your participation and by your reactions and your staying hooked-in and trying to control her disorder. 

[eng123]

I understand how you feel.   I have been through a similar experience.  I recommend that you stop contacting her to save yourself.  If she has talked about stalkers and abuse in the past, then she is dangerous because she may very well falsely accuse you of these things.

I did not believe all the stories in this site at first.  I thought that they were too wild to be true. I thought that posters were exaggerating. 

These are some concrete examples to show you the real danger of the pwBPDs false accusations, the danger of not knowing about BPD, the danger of not being able to walk away with no closure from her, and the danger that you might not know what she is saying to others about you.

She is able to tell very damaging lies, even to go as far as to file a false police report, and run it until the case was thrown out. 

She is able to smear you just before a good bye kiss. 

My experience was that she disappeared, didn’t show up for a planned (her plans) get together with no warning, and then no callbacks at all.  I was horrified, I was afraid for her safety.   After two days I found out she was ok, I was confused. 

I had no conception of what “a pwBPD will cut someone out of their life” was.  I had no clue what that meant or that it could even be possible.  No words, no texts, no arguments, no warning, no responses…just gone.  I didn’t believe anyone would possibly act that way.  It is mental illness, refusal to take responsibility for feelings and actions, and lack of empathy – look at the silence as absolute proof.

I was beside myself.   She didn’t want to see me or even return my call?  Not even to say I don’t want to see you anymore, not even a leave me alone?  Suddenly, out of the blue, how could that be?  Had she said leave me alone or don’t call me, then I would have been shocked and devastated, but I would have had something to go on.  I didn’t even have a hint.

I expected every day to get a call from her.  I thought it was one of her depression episodes where she wouldn’t talk to anyone and just sat in the house alone.  Those could last for weeks…   Usually after a couple of days of not hearing from her, I would go to her house to check on her, and she would be depressed and alone (lucky for me?), but happy to see me.  It was a game for her to no return phone calls and get everyone worried…her other friends would get just as worried do the same check visits.

I went to her house, I had no idea.  She opened the door, looked at me, then without a word turned around and walked back into the house leaving the door open.   I did not know what to think or do, I just stood on the porch.  I did not want to leave because I wanted some closure.  One minute later her neighbor came out of her house, she knew me, knew that I was a good person and no threat.  I told the neighbor that I was concerned that she was alright.  The neighbor was knocking on the windows and calling her name, and then called her on the cellphone.

She answered the call, the neighbor listened to her for a minute then said “She doesn’t want you here.”  I was confused, crushed, scared.  In no way am I a stalker, thug, or stupid goon who can’t take a hint – here I am in broad daylight, standing on a front porch.  I stammered that I was really concerned that she was alright and left that instant, absolutely confused.    I am glad that I stayed on the porch and left right away.

A few weeks later, she falsely accused her landlord of pointing a gun at her, attempted murder.  It was completely false and the case was eventually dropped.  She was not paying her rent.  The landlord spent time in jail and was financially ruined.  The landlord was like a father to her.  He would never have done anything to hurt her.  What she did to the landlord is pure evil despite how much he helped her out in terms of forgiving rent, helping expenses, etc…

Later the landlord and I talked about the lies she told each of us.  The landlord confided that a month prior to this “disappearance” she texted him that “I am scared of him, I don’t know what he is going to do” and asked him to come over while I was visiting.   I remember her frantically texting at the end of very nice evening and I was getting ready to go, I remember thinking that it was odd.  The landlord came walking in without knocking, he was almost shaking as I walked past him out the door.  I remember thinking that was odd, but I didn’t connect the dots.  She was smearing me and I had absolutely no clue.  I didn’t learn this until two years afterward.  I remember bringing over cold medicine that evening for her.  I can’t think of much more evil.

I am so glad that I left that porch right away.  I shudder to think was might have happened. 

[Elsegundo]

I tried to stop the smear with an exwBPD.  She just kept making it worse and worse.  Any reasonable attempt I made was met with more and more hostility, and larger consequences and smears.  Every action can become a tool her to talk about you.  No more actions, no more tools. 

It took months AFTER my last attempt (there were only a few, and namely to get my stuff which she ended up never returning) for her to stop, and each time she was dumped for the next 1.5 years, she'd start back up again--EVEN THOUGH I WASN'T IN CONTACT WITH HER.  The good thing is that she looked so crazy that even people who first didn't think she was started to distance themselves from her, which created a vindication naturally. 

I know it sucks, but each contact will likely make things worse. 

[bpdspell]

Diana,

You are getting some great advice on here. I understand that you are hurting and devastated by being abruptly discarded. But contacting someone when they want to be left alone makes you look like a desperate and insane person. We know that you are in pain here. I understand the injustice of it all. But BPD is a real serious mental disorder and once you've been painted black you are the enemy. It's irrational thinking on her part but believe me when I say she is doing you a huge favor by removing herself from your life. You are giving her way too much of your power to her, her thoughts, her motivations, and it's only hurting you more.

My ex smeared my name after the breakup and I was so ashamed and embarrassed because I actually listened to all the crap he spewed to me about all his ex's. Turns out I had been sleeping with the enemy all along. Yes they lie-tell but it's a reflection on their character; not ours. There's no need for you to defend the truth; the truth about who you are will stand on it's own. You cannot control them; you can only control how you react.

As far as your stuff try not to use it as a last ditch effort in trying getting through to her. Things will never go back to the way they were and she can never validate you. She doesn't have the keys to your happiness. Unfortunately many of us on here have had to lose some stuff in order to regain our sanity. Are your things really worth being humiliated over and over again?

My ex held on to personal things of mine as he idealized his new object and boy was I pissy. But I had to let it go. I had to surrender. It may seem like they're winning but they're not. They're disordered in the mind and heart and they will never have inner peace.

Spell

[Diana82]

Thanks everyone for your advice

I do see what you're saying. I've already seen what happened when I tried to ask her for my other stuff back. It was a nightmare

Firstly she shows 0 respect and doesn't respond when I ask for it back. Then she dumps only three books on my sidewalk in the night... anyone could walk over them. And no note and no response as to what I should do with her stuff (she left things at mine too).

And then I am giving the silent treatment for 2 months after I ask for the rest of my things. 

What is this hostility actually about (when you try to apologise or you even try to ask for your stuff back?)

Even if someone cheated on me- if they later sent me a note asking for my things to be returned I would be able to at least respond with a one-liner. I wouldn't talk about the relationship... but I could respond. Sometimes bits and pieces need to be tidied up after a long relationship. I can't imagine what she would have done had we lived together!  she wouldn't be able to just disappear and ignore me forever. We'd have to be in touch to work out house stuff.

Her flat mate told me she didn't "have the rest of my stuff" apparently. So either it was lost or I lost it who knows.  But why wasn't my ex able to tell me that?

I had even asked her flatmate if she could just give me a quick call so I can clarify where I left the stuff (I couldn't get through to him). But he barked at me saying she "doesn't want to talk to you OK! She wants you out of her life!"

He sounded so wicked. This was a guy who was always so nice to me whenever I saw him and came over (a lovely gentle gay guy).

My ex must have the ability to turn others against people with her smearing.

Anyone else never receive their things back and were met with hostility? 

[Diana82]

I do agree BPDspell... I'm really angry at myself for even going to her house to try to get my stuff. I'm angry at myself for contacting her crazy flatmate to see if he could help.

My parents kept telling me "Are you sure you're not just doing this to try to force her to talk or force her to be decent?"

They said that my things can be replaced (although I left my ring at her place that my Mum got me from Africa).

But I was so determined on PRINCIPLE to get what was rightly mine returned. I became obsessed with it. And yes, I wanted to believe this person I had invested so much in was actually the same decent person I thought she was.

She didn't respond after 2 months when I asked her so politely for my stuff to just be returned and even asked what to do with her stuff (should have just trashed it).  I kept thinking- she is the one who dumped ME!  She should be decent... she should be responding about my things.

I'm sure her flatmate has now smeared me back to her saying I am crazy asking for my stuff back when they don't have it. And they probably think I am just trying to get hold of her.

My sister told me "Why would you ever think she'd reply or talk to you after she changed her number? She is being consistent with her silence"

[eng123]

Don't be too hard on yourself for trying to get your things back.  Think of it as learning what to avoid doing in the future because the temptation to talk to her and get things will be back.  Think of it as dodging a bullet as well.  They might have crazy allies (the pwBPD will eventually turn on them too) to avoid.

Letting go of money owed and items is tough.  I invested a lot monetarily and emotionally, it felt just wasted or conned away.  She does not have our values or principles, returning or paying back is not in her thought processes to be decent.  She owed me $3,000+ dollars including $1,000 borrowed about a month before she disappeared.  It was hard to let that one go for me, it was like an slap in the face. I consider it another 3,000 reasons to avoid her.  A legal situation defending an accusation would be much more costly.

Dumping books on a sidewalk in the middle of the night is pure messing with you.  I got 2 or 3 little hi texts in the middle of the night about 2 months after the disappearance, it is a ping or a irritant.  She knows it bothers you and you really want the possessions back.  Please don't feed that. Let it go.

The hostility comes from some screwed up mentally ill thought process of BPD.  It is probably a misperception or crazy idea that BPD created in her mind that doesn't have any basis on what you ever did or said.  I once looked at a page in her journal based on a conversation that we had about what she owed me, she wrote what she thought I was thinking, it said PAY ME BACK YOU F**N B*TCH.  I don't use foul language or raise my voice.  It scared me, it was like someone was speaking lies into her ear or someone evil was speaking through her writing.  It was just crazy, but she never let me know these thoughts.

I saw her about 1 year after the disappearance and no contact, she looked at me will anger, distain, and digust, I had never seen her look at me that way ever.  I had no idea where it came from.  I had always been kind and decent to her, it doesn't make sense.  That look really hurt me though, like I guess it was supposed to.

I saw her about 2 weeks ago in a restraurant/club, 3 years after the disappearance, and 2 years since the disgusted look.   I have a new life and was with a good friend.  She kept looking at me with an expression of curiosity and interest.  She did not have the expression of hostility, which does not make sense if she was afraid of me based on her smears.  I acted like I didn't see her, but I was scared of losing my new life!  3 years ago I could not imagine life without her in it, now I am afraid that I will want to see her again, that old temptation.  She has not changed or worked on herself.

It took a long time to get over her.  I was afraid that it was taking too long (common concern here).  I felt better when I truly felt that I forgave and let go - and finally really meant it to myself.

[Diana82]

interesting experience you had! I think they are extremely bitter and resentful people.

My ex had a long unforgiving memory and would remember things that happened years ago as if it happened yesterday. She also remembered little btchy comments some people had made to me that I had let go or forgotten about.

I am not sure if I mentioned- but I recently got in touch with one of the girls my ex had always painted as an obsessive harassing type who had to be 'removed' and cut off.  My ex was ALWAYS so scared to run into this girl.

We couldn't go to gay events together- because this girl 'may be there'.  We couldn't even go to a pride march where hundreds of people would be- apparently this girl would be a threat to her.

I asked her what happened with this girl and she told me that they had met through a community gay event she held at her house. And the girl had liked my ex and my ex didn't feel the same at all. But this girl didn't get the message ever and became obsessed with her- calling my ex every day trying to get in touch. My ex told me "I'd look at my phone and see missed calls all the time! she just always wanted to see me. She was so obsessed!"

Apparently the girl also called her family's house and her mother told her she needed to be "cruel to be kind" and cut her off.

So one day my ex answered her call and said "I'm not interested in you OK! You need to stop calling me and take the hint! I don't want to see you. Stop calling my house! I'm not interested"

And she said she never heard a word since from this girl.  Yet she was so scared to run into her.

Anyway- turns out this girl is friends of a friend of mine (small circle). And she told me the complete opposite and had long assumed my ex was bipolar (a lot of people did).

She told me my ex and her were FRIENDS who started a gay event together. She admitted she did like her at one point but my ex didn't and they remained friends. This girl said she also had two girlfriends in the time she knew my ex. She said they became good friends and one day my ex called her and cancelled their dinner plans and barked "I will NOT be your Counsellor!"

And the girl was like "huh?"

No further explanation. My ex apparently then never spoke to her again- just cut her off. Blocked on facebook etc. Similar to what happened to me.

This girl said that my ex is "not what she seems" and that she is so accomplished, smart and seemingly kind and stable. But she is "unwell".

It makes sense. My ex has pretty much made me out to be crazy and this girl... .  and probably basically any woman she dates!

Do you think the reason my ex was so scared to run into this girl was because she knew she cut her off- and then lied about her?

I'd never seen anyone avoid someone so much. Maybe my ex is fully aware of her own deception and so when I did imply she was deceptive (in the break up fight)- that's why she went crazy at me and dumped me.

[eng123]

Trying to make sense of what they think or do is a waste of time. 

Accepting that they are mentally ill and the resulting thinking and actions don't make sense.

Trying to figure out why she cut me off has been a waste of time.  3 years later it is still a mystery.  I regret the hours wasted in trying to make sense out of something that was just mental illness/confusion, when I could have been doing other things for me.

I was accused of being controlling and demanding, and probably harrassing after the visit.  If anything I was too supportive, tolerant, and thoughtful.  I never told her to do anything or that she could not do anything.  Any boundary I set (and I didn't know I was setting boundaries) she raged at.

Avoidance is a way to protect yourself from feelings and not deal with issues.  I suspect that she was absolutely committed to avoiding me for the past 3 years.  I don't know how she can so consistently avoid me when she is constantly changing with the breeze in every other area of her life. 

I did notice that her exes always seemed to be trying to get in contact with her.    I truly believe that I am one of the very few that actually did not continue to pursue her.   Some have pined for her and followed her for YEARS.  It used to piss me off that they would continue to call her.  She must leave every relationship abruptly.  She leaves guys believing that she maybe might come back since it didn't make any sense.  I did not want to be one of those guys, now I feel sorry for them.

[Diana82]

I actually feel like a stalker now. I've even questioned my own sanity.

My ex even told me patrionisingly when breaking up with me that I " need help" and I have a mean streak.

I do think I should have stopped after a couple of unsuccessful attempts to reconcile . I also think I should have just forgotten about my stuff after she ignored me for 2 months.

It's like I was punished with silence and she knew it would infuriate me. And it worked.

But why do you think leaving my books on the sidewalk in plastic was messing with me?

I actually think her flatmate did it in the night. My ex would probably have been scared to come anywhere near my house. It was such an icy cold thing to do though. It seemed to stink of hatred...

I know she feels "burnt" by me so it's about her now hating on me

[Diana82]

The weird irony is that our  break up fight was about me being suspicious of her character.

I was getting suspicious of her inconsistencies in stories and actions.

After almost 3 years together I still didn't understand my ex. I'd keep learning of new abuse stories too and they would weirdly change. She seemed to have had a life full of abuse or assault. But never filed police reports and nobody else knew.

When I questioned my ex or ever said something a bit critical she would snap and bite my head off. It was scary.

She'd always said she never wanted to send me nude photos via cell phone. She told me from the start that she was against it. She was also conservative and had a low libido.

I was fine with her not sending nude shots- all good. Then randomly 2.9 years later she texts me a large photo of her breasts. It was out of character.

I had felt she was always insecure with me and feared abandonment. And I sensed recently she was even more insecure. So in a cafe I asked her why she changed her mind about sending nude photos- when she'd been against it for so long. She didn't seem to want to answer so I probed and she ended up biting my head off saying "I DONT HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU OK!"

I was stunned. It was do rude and unnecessary.

Later that night I stewed on it and was upset over an argument I also had with my mum. All my suspicions about my ex surfaced and we ended up fighting over the phone. I told her she was too inconsistent and defensive. She got even more defensive and kept disagreeing.

I also implied she may have been deceptive with me. She cracked it and told me "I am a deeply honest person! You are a suspicious person never satisfied with my answers! Nobody has ever said this about me in my whole life"

Later she dumps me claiming I burnt her.

And then she erases me and changes her number.

I got dumped for basically being honest that I was suspicious over her inconsistencies and defensiveness.

Do you smell a rat?

[eng123]

Questioning your own sanity - we have all been there

Feel like a stalker - I felt the same, like I missed some hint or clue... .  It does not feel right or look right to you to continue doing what you are doing.  I would follow your instincts and reasoning and not get in contact with her.  Maybe your logic and instincts are trying to protect you.

If you were truly obsessed or a stalker, then you would not be questioning whether you were really sane or a stalker.  The fact that you are questioning your ideas and actions means that you are not crazy.  If you were really crazy and a stralker then you would be following her around and doing crazy things.

She told me and her landlord so many stories about her past, abuse, rape, stalking, etc... .  I always thought it was weird that there were no protection orders for stalkers and police reports ect... .    Yes, the stories were inconsistent.  Most of what whe told us was not real, it may have been real in her mind.   While the landlord was fighting for his freedom his lawyers discovered that she had changed her name (legally), lied about her age (not a bid deal I guess), but had also made false accusations of rape in the past.    I don't know what stories were real. 

Silence can be punishment or maybe just general abuse to take hurt out on you.

Leaving books out on a sidewalk - if it is not messing with you, then it is just weirdness.  Who does that?  That is not normal.  It is silly that we are analyzing it! LOL

If I ever questioned her, she would get flustered and try to change the subject.  In an instant she could mirror my mood or statements.  If I said that I didn't deserve to be treated like canceling a dinner at the last moment, she would say that I was being mean.  It is projection of her feelings about herself on to you.

[Elsegundo]

Just put her things in a box and mail them.  Seeing them will make you crazy. 

I understand how tiny the lesbian world is.  It can be REALLY hard.  I also know it's rarely as awful as our hurt hearts think it will be, especially after some time.  People know YOU.  Trust them to make good choices.

[Diana82]

It was weird how my ex kept focusing on the fact I implied she might be deceptive. I didn't even use this word but she kept saying "You are saying something VERY clear about my character. I have never been called deceptive or dishonest in my entire life by anybody. It's bizarre"

Could this because nobody else has caught on to her distortions? Her family and friends didn't even know that she was bullied throughout her childhood... or that she was "almost raped".

To be dumped over telling off your partner for being too defensive and inconsistent is weird. I've never heard of it.

But she sure knows how to make me feel bad. Because when she started sobbing, she also added in "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" and "Why do people always hurt me?'

I fell for it and took back everything I said to her and apologised and apologised. Then she switched out of sob mode to attacker mode and dumped me. She had a way to make me feel sorry for her

But I remember thinking- what does she mean by telling me "I'm a lonely person- I was lonely before I met you!"

What on earth has that got to do with anything and why say that before dumping me!  Was it her way of telling me she has issues?

Any ideas?

[seeking balance]

hi diana,

I understand where you are right now - that crazymaking hamster wheel of your own mind.

for me, focusing on the actual facts of the disorder helped me start to detach.  living in the situation described is going to make anyone question everything.  one of the best pieces of advice that I received was something like this:  you lived it, you know it is crazy - what is it going to take to let go and focus on your feelings now?

Frankly, I was scared... .  fear of losing friends, fear of divorce, fear of being alone, fear really masked my broken-heart.  I loved my ex and focusing on all the other distractions... .  well, I could delay my grief into manageable chunks. 

Eventually, I tired of the hamster wheel and leaned into the pain.

we can focus on the facts of BPD and look for patterns, but none of us can know what is in our exes heads... .  looking there for our answers tended to keep my hamster wheel spinning.

peace,

SB

[Diana82]

Can I ask you guys what you would think if your partner starting announcing new abuse stories every few months but then they'd change?

I honestly couldn't keep up anymore and didn't feel I understood my ex. This is what lead me in the end to getting angry at her for being so inconsistent and defensive when asked about her changes.


For example...

In the beginning my ex seemed to be VERY open about the horrible treatment she got from her exes. I appreciated her honesty, but at the same time felt it was inappropriate to be over sharing- especially with a new girlfriend. She also could never say anything nice about her exes whom she obviously would have liked at one point. Normally people do say some off things about their exes but she took it to a different level. I had tried to say a couple of times "but you were with such and such for 9 months and you had a long distance with her... .  there must have been something you liked about them?"

She only slammed them.

She told me early on that her first girlfriend was cold, distant and frigid. Apparently she never wanted her sexually and they didn't have sex for 7 months (out of a 9 month relationship). It got so bad that they had to go to couples counselling and my ex said "by the end of the relationship I was climbing the walls I was so frustrated!"   This girl had then dumped my ex via text message and my ex was depressed for days-couldn't get out of bed.

Then she met a girl from interstate and they started a long distant but this new woman emotionally abused her and sexually degraded her. She would make patrionising comments and never want to have sex with my ex either.

So basically both of her exes didn't find her attractive and sexually degraded her and were emotional bullies. It appeared nobody found my ex attractive- before me. I was the one who made her feel loved and special- and that suited me because I do have rescuing tendencies and want to be the knight in shining armour.

She also told me she never dated men before and refused to kiss anyone on the first date as she was a traditionalist. She kissed me on third date.

So... I got to know her stories as per above.  She also told me she was bullied throughout childhood and had an unhappy childhood. Her parents did nothing much to help her, nor did her teachers.

Fast forward a year...

My ex now portrays herself as the desirable one. She tells me all these women she dated had been obsessed with her... had stalked her... had tried to grope her in public all the time. Then she randomly announced she had "kissed 10 men" (despite telling me she never kissed on the first date and didn't date men so how does that work?)

Fast forward another year... .  

We had a fight one night over her snapping at me rudely. She had also rolled over rudely in bed and we had not had sex for weeks.

I decide to up and leave her place after her being so rude and she freaks out and has a panic attack. The next day she is sobbing all morning and then told me she was forced on by the same ex whom she had always told me was frigid. She said she didn't feel like sex for a long time after.

She told me she had to go to counselling-alone.  So the entire relationship she tells me they went TOGETHER to counselling because of her ex's frigid issues. And now that has changed and her ex now apparently assaulted her and tried to rape her?

Then she started telling me this same ex had tried to force public displays of affection on her all the time- yet in the beginning she told me this ex was cold and distant!

I couldn't keep up!

how can a frigid ex now be a predator/rapist ex? I didn't even think to ask her at the time because she was crying so much and looked so traumatised suddenly.

Would anyone else find this weird?