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Author Topic: How did your exBPD deal with you telling them off/questioning them?  (Read 4376 times)
Diana82
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« on: January 06, 2013, 05:25:08 AM »

Mine was hypersensitive to any criticism.

Hated being questioned over her actions or inconsistencies 

Did not respond well to being pulled up on poor behaviour ... Felt very threatened

Was very jealous but got annoyed if you were jealous ... ( probably because you'd be pointing out a flaw in her that again she was hypersensitive to)

I in fact got dumped for telling my ex she was too inconsistent/defensive!
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waitaminute
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 07:24:46 AM »

I learned that her answers to my questions were meaningless. So I stopped asking. If I did venture a question, she became angry and accused me of wanting to control her.

There were sometimes other responses besides anger. She could distract with off-the-wall stories. And she could overdramatize the situation ... .  Saying things like she would "put salt on her heart and live like the dead" if I questioned her about her guy friends. It was like a child and was so obvious that she was hiding things.

Actually I was very tolerant of her behavior. I just wanted to share her life and not be lied to.  She judged herself more harshly than I did. But I do have some boundaries. I thought that if we could discuss things and keep them in the open that we could find some fair and happy medium ground. But there was no chance of that discussion happening.
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 10:41:16 AM »

Mine would do anything to turn things back around on me.  There were many times where his stories didn't seem right - well, they weren't right.  He would use anger mostly to deflect and take control back and get the spotlight off of him so I wouldn't see any character flaw in him and he would not be exposed.

He would say:

"You are too controlling, you are ALWAYS investigating me."

"I'm done with you (or this)!  I am so SICK of living like this.  You have to investigate and control everything.  No one could live like this."

Or he would turn the heat up big time and start telling me that was it, he was done, he wanted a divorce.  Throw his ring across the room, start breaking things and screaming & cursing at the top of his lungs toward me. 

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willy45
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 10:44:38 AM »

ha ha... .  I think the word 'deal' is being too generous.

Mine would blame me. Always. Her yelling at me was always my fault, for not committing. When she yelled at me for petting the dog instead of her, it was because of my lack of commitment. When she yelled at me because I didn't like the movie 'The Artists' (I didn't hate it... .  just thought it overhyped... .  ), it was because of my lack of commitment.

I learned to not question anything. I learned not tell them off. If I ever made any criticism, it was World War III. That is actually one of my biggest regrets... .  not calling her out on her craziness... .  Well, actually, now that I think about it, I would... .  it would just turn into massive, massive fights that never got resolved. Somehow, it always got turned back onto my lack of commitment.
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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 12:30:33 PM »

Looking back now I  see the stages of the r/s... .  honeymoon, clinging, hating... .  During the honeymoon, for the first 8 months, before our wedding shower, I'd say that things SEEMED to get resolved. We would talk, make up, etc. But the arguments were still very confusing and about things that wouldn't seem to be a big deal to "normal" people. When she told me she was divorced TWICE in our first conversation I should have very quietly disappeared. She was  24 y/o at the time and not even a month out of her divorce when we started emailing. What was I thinking? But in the end NOTHING was resolved. She said she needed time to herself, then I was cut off emotionally. She went to a counselor one time and then decided to end the r/s 2 days later. It's typical of the waif borderline. We chatted on yahoo once and texted a few times after that. She became a totally different person than she was during the honeymoon. I planned a future and was a good mate. Nothing more could have been done. Luckily we didn't marry and have another child like she wanted so badly when we met.
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seeking balance
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 12:44:48 PM »

Mine was hypersensitive to any criticism.

having a lacking sense of self which is part of the criteria would seem to make this logical.

many people non-BPD don't take criticism well. 

Hated being questioned over her actions or inconsistencies 

This was the single biggest frustration for me - and I certaintly didn't help with my ex's abandonment issues when I approached the subjects in question.  DEARMAN is an approach that works well with BPD when asking for a need to be met.

Did not respond well to being pulled up on poor behaviour ... Felt very threatened

seems like this might be a repeat of the past 2 questions - did you mean something different?

Was very jealous but got annoyed if you were jealous ... ( probably because you'd be pointing out a flaw in her that again she was hypersensitive to)

jealousy is common - core to the disorder is abandonment... .  can you see how jealousy is actually a logical maladaptive defense mechanism for someone who has a core fear of abandonment?

Fear of engulfment is the other end of the pendulum - thus their anger at you being jealous.  This relates to an unstable sense of self and the perception you are encroaching on their sense of self.

I in fact got dumped for telling my ex she was too inconsistent/defensive!

Yeah, I would dump someone too that told me that - wouldn't we all?

Diana, you have great questions here... .  let's take a look at you - why on earth didn't you dump her since she treated you so poorly?
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whatarideout
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 02:56:12 PM »

I in fact got dumped for telling my ex she was too inconsistent/defensive!

actually, you were "dumped" because she split you black and awarded you the role of playing the bad parent.

once that voice of the "bad parent"(who criticizes) enters into her mind again, the feeling of her being a "bad" person begins to surface. this feeling creates a lot of shame and starts a defence plan against the split(you). the more you criticize, the more you confirm the role she gives you and brings out her persecution complex.

now she needs someone to blame. if she feels "bad", it must be someone else's fault. she then projects all of the blame on to you.

hence you are split and left behind in order for her to survive the disorder.
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Diana82
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 05:19:44 PM »

Thanks for your comments seekingbalance... .  

So you would dump your partner if they told you, you were too inconsistent/defensive? How come?

I'm finding it even more suspicious for her to dump me for calling her out on being too defensive/inconsistent/deceptive


You asked... why didn't I dump her?

It's complex. I loved my ex... and a part of me still does. She had many great qualities and she did support me throughout my unemployment. She would do sweet things for me... she'd include me in all of her family things... she seemed to be really good listener too. 

But,  I have a tendency to have a delayed reaction to lying and a tendency to want to be the rescuer. So her sob stories always worked on me and drew me closer to her.

UNTIL... they started to change. That's when I caught on that something didn't add up. When she started to misinterpret my words and then cried hysterically over the idea of moving to Sydney for a while with me (so I could find more work)- I knew she lacked emotional maturity too.  Her separation anxiety (with her family) seemed to drive a wedge between us and I didn't know what to do... .  

I couldn't find work in my city at all... .  she didn't want to move anywhere else and it made her "anxious" and cry.

So there were things I was unhappy about, for sure. But wasn't sure if they were break up worthy.

think when she yelled at me "I DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF YOU OK!" when I probed her about why she sent the photo...

something went off in my head... this huge red alert. And I went home crying... sick of her snappy rudeness. Sick of not understanding her abuse stories and thinking she may be unstable.

And I cracked it at her that night (as I mentioned)... and started telling her exactly how I perceived her.

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Diana82
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 05:21:57 PM »

I never thought she'd run away and never want to talk to me again after that.

I was expecting

1. An apology for her being too snappy at me (who talks to a partner like that?)

2. More of an explanation as to why she gets so defensive when asked about inconsistencies

3. Reassurance that she felt secure with me in the relationship (as she hadn't appeared to be and often told me she felt like a liability)

Instead I got

1. Her telling me the reason she is snappy is because she detects an "underlying suspicion in my questioning"

2. She disagreed completely that she is too defensive and said she is "not dogmatic in change" and does not "fit into a box of consistency". She also added "I am a deeply honest person and nobody has ever said this about me in my whole life! Not ever!"

3. I got 0 reassurance of her security. I got her sobbing her eyes out, projecting and throwing all kinds of things I had said ages ago in the relationship back to me and told I "need help" and that I "burnt her" and then dumped.
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 10:02:22 PM »

Hi Diana 82,

I have read many of your posts and it does seem to me that you are asking the same questions in a different manner about mostly her dysfunctional behaviors. And that is necessary but perhaps what seeking balance is getting at is to turn that mirror you have pointed backwards at her dissecting all her troublesome behavior and turn it onto you?

You seek to know answers from a way dysfunctional woman who may suffer from a severe mental illness. Applying logic to illogical people and or mentaly ill people never ever works... Never.

The question seeking balance asked is pertinent to YOUR healing not hers. The question "Why did you allow some to treat you so poorly? when examined as deeply as you have tried to examine her behavior from afar will yield you the answer you desire.

Once that process of self discovery is started you will begin to understand WHY you picked this woman to love. You cant save her but you can save yourself.

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Diana82
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 10:33:25 PM »

Thanks red feather... you make some good points.

I've posted in the thread "Heightened sense of abuse- where does it stem from?"  as this is something I really want to understand.

And I'd like to hear other people's similar experiences with exes who misinterpreting their words, felt easily harassed and even turned us into stalkers

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seeking balance
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 10:34:44 PM »

Thanks red feather... you make some good points.

I've posted in the thread "Heightened sense of abuse- where does it stem from?"  as this is something I really want to understand.

And I'd like to hear other people's similar experiences with exes who misinterpreting their words, felt easily harassed and even turned us into stalkers

Why do you want to hear from others?  What emotion do you feel that you need validated?
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 03:44:09 PM »

Criticizing was never acceptable to my wife. If I did that, that was/is reason enough to separate. I know that right now, I criticized how she went NC with me while we were waiting on information from the bank about info on a house we were going to buy. I was very upset that she kicked me out with no reason and that she should have never done this to me and my children, after our first separation, if she did not intend to work her rear end off on our marriage. She should have never gotten involved with me after leaving me the first time in Feb, 2011 if this was always a possibility.

I know that was not good to say. I know this kind of criticizing would cause me a major problem, but my truth needed to be said.

It WAS wrong to pull me back into our relationship, especially after I let my house go into foreclosure, helped pay for her to break her lease and rent a new house to be with her. I REALLY think that was WAY wrong to do.

I should have never believed her or trusted her. I made a grave mistake and I am paying dearly for it now.
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Diana82
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 04:57:23 PM »

seeking balance>  I'm just trying to hear other people's experiences. Nobody else in my life (friends, family) can relate to this behaviour as they have never gone out with someone like this.

They all tell me "oh she was unstable, you're better off"  and "you dodged a bullet! it's good you found out now"  and then I get "She's not worth it. Look at her behaviour- it reflects badly on her and how immature and petty she is"

I'm getting weary hearing those things. And now I turn to this board to hear of other people's experiences to try to help me through this mess.

I know I will get through it soon... but hearing other people's view points and experiences is helping
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Diana82
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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 05:04:00 PM »

Spaceace- when you criticised your ex, what types of things were you critical about and how did you criticise her?

My ex lived with her best friend (this male gay guy) who was incredibly grotty. He would come home, cook steak or sausages every night and then leave all this leftover meat in a pan on the stove or on plates. He wouldn't put it in the bin or even cover the meat he left out. So overnight it would sit there and stink and attract ants.

I used to find it repulsive when I stayed over having to see it (especially as I was needing to get water in the night in the kitchen or make my ex a hot water bottle).  Once I saw all these ants everywhere and thought how can my partner live like this. How can she put up with it?  Am I this different to her?

And she knew I was also a clean freak and that that would be the worst thing for me to see. We were planning to live together and it did concern me she didn't care.

So I had to ask her after I saw all the ants "don't you mind that your flat mate leaves cooked meat out every night? Are you not worried you might get mice or cockroaches soon?"

And she immediately got defensive  "It's not something I would do. But I pick my battles! You've NEVER lived with anyone so you don't know what it's like!  you wouldn't know!"

It was so rude of her.  I then said "Well, I don't have to live with someone to have known that is a bit gross? he is your best friend- can't you talk to him?  You pay half rent after all"

"I pick my battles with him! OK!"

It was so defensive.  And this is how she responded to anything remotely critical
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GreenMango
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 07:09:47 PM »

Picking battles is actually a wise choice.  Some people are more able to accept things like a dirty house etc.  If she was fine with the living situation I can see how she might not care to cause a problem.

If a person BPD or not feels criticized unduly they will react.  Sometimes they respond in a productive way sometime not.  But if a person struggles with rejection, like with BPD, they can overreact.

Diana I think you might be a person who needs to have a thorough understanding of the disorder to get some peace for yourself.  Some people want a little information, some want more and take a little more time trying to figure things out.  I recommend highly taking some time to read the facts on the disorder from the bpdfamily.com learning center.  There are examples and explanations from first person experiences.

If you were to look at the steps on the leaving lessons where do you think you would be?  They are on the right margin.
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Diana82
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 10:22:02 PM »

My break up goes down as the most bizarre and confusing break ups I have had (a lot of my friends think it's whacko too)

So...

My exgf of 3 years and I had a fight that lasted for almost 24 hours. The fight was over the fact that I told her she is too inconsistent in her stories/actions and too defensive. I also implied she was deceptive because her stories (of abuse in particular) started to change and stuff didn't add up about her. I just didn't understand her anymore because of all these weird changes.

And when asked about changes, she'd get so snappy and bite my head off. She was unnecessarily rude. I was fed up so confronted her in an emotional fashion one evening. I was rather incoherent and it degenerated into a text argument.

She immediately got on the defensive and started firing back saying she "I am NOT endlessly defensive!"  and  "I'm a deeply honest person!"  and "nobody has ever said this about me in my whole life"   I was trying to say that she comes across as inconsistent and defensive to me- but she didn't appreciate any of it and got even more defensive.

Later that night, we chatted on the phone and she was sobbing her eyes out saying "Why do people always do THIS?"

And "I'm a lonely person- I was lonely before I met you".

It didn't make sense... .  

she was almost trying to play the poor victim again. She also told me she is conflicted now because she "loves me a lot"  but I "crossed the line".   

Next day- total change... she is angry and she projects onto me and tells me I need "help" and that I have baggage and am too suspicious. We agree to meet at her place to chat.

I go to her place, thinking we're going to chat about our fight and work things out. How mistaken I was.

She was in her bedroom... .  sitting on her bed cold and emotionless. She'd removed her ring and bracelet I gave her and all cards from the bedsit. All traces of me were gone from her room. She looked so pale and emotionless.

She told me "I have no more to give! I don't have the feeling! we are not WORKING!"

And then said "You have a mean streak" and that she reiterated she had no more to give and said "I'm not in love with you... "

I was astonished and started crying saying "HUH?  but you said only last night you love me a lot! we were talking of our future 2 days ago? How could that have changed overnight?"

she ignored me.

She then started telling me not to beg because I'm "better than that" and she said "I'll always be here for you... .  "  (prrrrft)

Yet moments later she started firing at me again saying "You BURNT ME. You are in the top list of people who have hurt me!"


I asked her tearily  "what can I do to get you to forgive me... .  to help the situation?"  (at this point I thought I was the bad guy)

she said "it's not about forgiveness... .  "

then she said  "maybe it's a personality fault of mine"  (not sure what that means)

then she said  "what you can do for me is leave me alone! I want to be with my family. I want to do my phD. Leave me ALONE!  Your texts are a form of harassment and I have to hide my phone in my bag every day because I don't know what's coming!  Leave me alone and don't text me!"

(yet she was equally participating in the text fight and I never harassed her daily with texts)

And she tried to lead me out the door.

And that was that.  A week after I was blocked on facebook and after trying to seek explanation from her, she changed her number. I have been erased.

It's like I cheated on her or something terrible. Anyone else experience a weird break up with conflicting messages?


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cookiecrumbled
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 10:38:39 PM »

AbsoLUTELY.  You confronted her issue and she painted you black.  By holding a mirror up to her face, you got your Get Out Of Jail Free Card.  Yes, I know you did it bc she was hurting you.  Yes, I know you did it bc its unhealthy and you were concerned.  It matters not.

My undiagnosed BPD ex-boyfriend never even broke up with me.  We had two hours of sex while a thunderstorm raged outside (foreshadowing?), dressed, had a fun dinner at another couple's home, held hands after supper while sitting around talking... .  when I left, he kissed me and said, "I love you, honey.  See you tomorrow night."

For the next three weeks, he refused to answer my texts, emails and phone calls while I practically lost my mind.  He never has given me an explanation and I've only seen him a handful of times since (that was July 15th, 2012).  We had dated a year and a half, had introduced our children, met our families, etc.  My sons are still upset -

"But Mommy, he didn't even tell us goodbye."

Its awful and I am so sorry this is happening to you.  She knows she is no good for you.
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Suzn
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 10:44:58 PM »

Most members here have had a break up with conflicting messages. We can try to figure out irrational all day and forever more Diana. Ruminating about how irrational it was is normal to a certain degree. Have you considered a therapist for support with this? What are you doing for you?
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 10:47:56 PM »

after 3 breakups and 7 months i still havent gotten an explaination... .  she says there are

"incompatibilities" she has identified... .  and my favorite... .  "you are so close to perfect but

not perfect enough for me"

really?

Chuck

PS Cookie you saved me tonite... .  no text!

thanks sent you a personal message before... .  
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Diana82
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 11:09:12 PM »

Hi Suzn

To answer your question... yes I have seen a Therapist who thinks my ex is most likely a Borderline and is an 'unhappy person'. I am working on myself... ie my rescuing tendencies. I am also leading an active social life and putting a lot of effort into work.

But, I still feel isolated and nobody else in my life as experienced a break up like this. Nobody knows about BPD. I'm here to share and hear about other people's experiences with BPD break ups and to feel less isolated.
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Diana82
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 11:14:56 PM »

I know it's futile to analyse their words... .  but what on earth could "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" mean prior to dumping me?

Any ideas?

Do you think she was trying to insinuate that I am leaving her no choice but to dump me because I told her off? and she will be lonely again (she already feels lonely anyway).

Or was it said to again, claim victimhood?  My ex was always turning things back around to make herself the poor victim... .  crying easily... .  saying her "heart is pounding" and she is about to "burst into tears"  etc.

And what about saying the night before "I'm conflicted... .  because I love you a lot"  and a day before that she said her love "runs deep".

Yet a day later after this fight... she does a complete turn around and is no longer in love with me and "does not have the feeling"? 

My previous ex told me the cliche line  "I love you, but I'm not in love" and later confessed that she said this to only end the relationship and was emotional and angry at the time but she was still in fact in love with me. She said "love doesn't just disappear after a fight!"
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 11:19:27 PM »

Ah yes, the "incompatabilities". I'm amazed how often that word was used- in between times when I was on a pedestal and I was perfect and he couldn't think of a single thing that he would change about me.

As far as the final breakup... .  oh dear, so many breakups to sort out in my mind... .  the final breakup was after a long romantic tropical getaway. He said he wanted to work on "us" and was totally committed to making it work. After flying home, he dropped me off at my apartment and I never saw him again.

Once at home, he had yet another epiphany that he has "issues" and "can only handle friendship"... .  which means in well over a year he has had zero contact with me, changed his number, and goes out of his way to avoid me. And dropped out of dbt, and dropped out of a different therapy program, and basically sits around getting drunk telling his friends what a shrew I am. Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 11:27:39 PM »

The actions, all of them, are the truth.

Many of the questions in this thread can be translated to "I can't relate to this behavior, it doesn't make sense."

Nope, it doesn't. That's the only statement that DOES make sense. Yes, it follows a certain logic based on the experiences of the BPD, but the reason we're here is because the behavior doesn't make sense.

when you stop blaming yourself for it, and get some distance from it, you won't try to make sense of it any more. It will be left in the "BPD can't be explained rationally" file.
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 11:44:58 PM »

I know it's futile to analyse their words... .  but what on earth could "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" mean prior to dumping me?

Diana. I'm going to continue to push you. When will you accept that over analyzing every word that your ex has ever uttered will not bring her back to you? If she says that she was lonely before she met you then accept her words at face value. I know this may be difficult to read but you cannot decipher the mind of your ex. It is not within your power to fix her. You ex is mentally ill and her thinking is twisted. Therefore her words are twisted. People with BPD express and project a lot of hurt, shame, and blame. You are not the cause of her pain or her disorder. You are trying to avoid your hurt and pain by fixating on the replaying of events in your mind. You are only making this more painful for yourself.

Do you think she was trying to insinuate that I am leaving her no choice but to dump me because I told her off? and she will be lonely again (she already feels lonely anyway).

No one on here can tell you what your ex's words meant because no one was there in the room with her when she expressed them. At some point you will have to accept that your ex's actions are your truth. She didn't leave because you told her off. Stop blaming yourself for her actions.

Or was it said to again, claim victimhood?

Having BPD is not victimhood. BPD is a painfully serious mental illness and attachment disorder. You need to read the articles so you can begin to depersonalize the actions of your ex. You are making her behavior about you when it isn't.

And what about saying the night before "I'm conflicted... .  because I love you a lot"  and a day before that she said her love "runs deep".

Again Diana. You are clinging to the words that were said. If her reasoning were logical you wouldn't be on this board. Accept that her thinking is irrational due to BPD.

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

Yet a day later after this fight... she does a complete turn around and is no longer in love with me and "does not have the feeling"?  

You aren't accepting of your current reality. Your ex has made her choice. You are not together. At this point you are giving yourself self-inflicted wounds. I would recommend reading the book: I hate you, don't leave me.

My previous ex told me the cliche line  "I love you, but I'm not in love" and later confessed that she said this to only end the relationship and was emotional and angry at the time but she was still in fact in love with me. She said "love doesn't just disappear after a fight!"

Comparing the BPD dance to other ex's are like comparing apples and oranges.

Diana. After the dust clouds of over analyzation settles underneath it all you want something from your ex that she is unable to give you: mature reciprocal love. There's no amount of picking apart her words that will give you what you ultimately want from her. I think constantly posting about her thoughts keeps the relationship going in your mind.

I don't believe that you're purposely ignoring all of the great advice that has been given to you on this forum. I understand the need to vent. However. I simply think you're too caught up in your ex's thought process to even consider your own feelings. Your feelings are all that matter now and your feelings are what those of us on here can validate.

Diana. I am pushing you out of love. Focus on the facts of your reality. Your ex is out of the picture of your life for now and it's time to focus on you. This is the leaving board and it would better serve you if you simply express your feelings of hurt, sadness and disappointment.

Spell

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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 11:50:24 PM »

I'd just like to ask here...

Does anyone else find it really weird that a partner would dump you when you have a fight and tell them you think they are too inconsistent and defensive (and also imply they may be deceptive?)

It's not the greatest thing to tell your partner, I know. But there are worse things one could say/do.

If my partner said that to me... and I was innocent, I'd be concerned they think this about me.  But would want to understand why ... running away like a coyote is what my ex did.

And this leaves me even more suspicious
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 11:53:00 PM »

Hello BPDspell...

I do not 100% know if my ex is BPD. I am simply assuming she is given the similarities in behaviour to other BPDs.

So I'm asking here if other people have experienced similar things said to them... and what they have thought of these things.

It's helping me to feel less isolated. I am moving forwards in my own way, but I need to hear other people's experiences and thoughts for my healing too.

Thank you.
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2013, 12:01:51 AM »

Aaahhh... .  the "incompatibilities"... .  

After he broke up with me (out of the blue, just like many of you), he followed it up with an email saying that we weren't compatible for long term anyway.

I asked, Why?  "Because you have a cat and I have a dog"... .  Ok, you can't date anyone who has a cat? - his previous girlfriend actually had a cat that lived with them!  "No, that's not the only thing"

"Because I run warm and you run cold"... Don't most men run warm compared to women?  You're 6'3", medium-boned and athletic - have you found many women that run as warm as you do?  Even your male roommate is chilly in your house... .  "No!  Those aren't the only things!  It's everything put together!"

Ok... .  what else?  "Our politics are different"  Hmm... .  well I voted for Obama and you voted for Obama... .  "Well, I'm more knowledgable than you are about politics"... .  Ok, even tho I was a poli sci major in college in the honors program and you never went to college... .   "There's more!"

And the final kicker - "You don't snowboard or ski, so I'm not sure what we could do together in the winter"... .   Are you SERIOUS?  He was actually going to take me snowboarding and teach me.

So, yeah, a lot of ridiculousness!  I was scared when I got his email that there was something really wrong with me that I just never saw about myself.  After we talked, it was laughable!  Made me feel so much better!  I went from crying and sniffling to practically laughing on the phone... .  except that made him raise his voice and start barking at me... .  so I stopped
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 12:22:31 AM »

Diane,

I have ruminated about what my ex said / didn't say / did / didn't do for a long time.

From personal hard learned experience I agree with Spell that you are giving yourself self-inflicted wounds by continuing this analysis.   Why, because that is exactly what I have done.

You will find many stories of ex partners (diagnosed and not) dumping their partner (short term / long term / married / engaged / just dating) for reasons which to most of us seem completely nonsensical.   And I would include dumping someone because you said she was too inconsistent and defensive among them.

They often run when you get too close and the mask comes off... .  the behaviour that follows is beyond the normal comprehension of most of us.   That is why we are on this board.   It is not how we act... .  we of course all have our own flaws but as Spell says BPD is a mental illness.   

Whether your ex has BPD not is (in my humble view and as someone who has struggled with this more than anything in my life - and I have had some challenges) not important.   She is not capable of giving you what you want and as Spell says you need to make it about you now.   

Please don't make the mistake I did and make the healing more difficult and protracted.


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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 12:23:00 AM »

Hello BPDspell...

I do not 100% know if my ex is BPD. I am simply assuming she is given the similarities in behaviour to other BPDs.

So I'm asking here if other people have experienced similar things said to them... and what they have thought of these things.

It's helping me to feel less isolated. I am moving forwards in my own way, but I need to hear other people's experiences and thoughts for my healing too.

Thank you.

Hey Diana,

I really appreciate your response.

Many of us on here are not sure whether our ex's are BPD. Many BPD's are undiagnosed but fit the criteria for BPD to a T. My ex is undiagnosed but is certainly mentally ill mixed in with a little NPD for good measure. I will never know for sure what his diagnosis is but I know that he is not well and I know that he is not the answer to my happiness. My ex had his chance to love me and be good to me and he blew it in a bad way.

The labels of mental illness are not what matters here. What truly matters is that you were in a relationship with a person who discarded you cruelly without much thought and with very little respect. Diagnosis or not... what you need to accept is how badly she treated you and the little care she has shown towards your feelings. Even if you don't know for sure about her BPD status isn't the way she has treated you telling enough?

From what I'm reading it seems to me that you are asking others to decipher and interpret the specific words of your ex. That is not the same as hearing other people's experiences. Your questions are very specific to your ex and none of us on here know your ex therefore we cannot decipher for you what her feelings and thoughts are.

When my ex first dumped me he dropped me like a half-eaten sandwich in the street. He triangulated me, gaslighted me, started arguments with me, and was with another woman the very next night.  We recycled. My ex told me he loved me and wanted to me to have his baby. I clung to the words. In the meantime my ex conned me out of money, lied to my face, started a smear campaign to our entire neighborhood, and made me look like a crazy stalker and complete fool to my next door neighbor after I called the police on him for physically assaulting me. We went from him wanting a baby to him hating my guts because I didn't want to accept his ~ treatment of me. Playing out every action of his in my mind and wondering how things went wrong kept me stuck in his world. Do you want to be stuck in trying to decipher her disordered world?

So yes. Things can end pretty abruptly and badly with a person with BPD and it isn't our fault. When we cannot make sense of this insane hurtful behavior most of us end up doing Internet searches that bring us here to BPD family. The stories of idealize, devalue and discard are what we all have in common.

I'm happy to hear that you are healing in your own way. Clinging to the words on repeat in your mind will eventually wear itself out and you will get off the hamster wheel in your own time. I wish you well.  

Spell
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 12:23:40 AM »

Sorry Diana... .  had Diane on my brain as was just emailing someone called Diane!.

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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 08:08:40 AM »

I am working on myself... ie my rescuing tendencies. I am also leading an active social life and putting a lot of effort into work.

Thanks for responding Diana. This is awesome, I'd like to hear more about this.

I understand how you would feel isolated since few understand BPD. You're right its hard to wrap your head around for most people. There's a saying "don't let someone rent space in your head", it seems all of your thoughts are wrapped up in her actions.

Do you see she is living rent free and tearing up the place? Time for an eviction notice my friend. What does working on your rescuing look like? How are you working on this?

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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2013, 08:44:46 AM »

with furious rage-well beyond the range of normal.
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2013, 09:25:00 AM »

I know it hurts. Somebody you loved and cared about left your life and ran away from the r/s in a very irrational manner. It is very hurtful and takes some time to come to grips with. I left on a 4 day trip when things were great. I returned and She wouldn't talk, touch, or look at me. She moved out a few days later. It really hurt. I spent the next 3 months seeking answers from her. This was by far the worst time of our relationship because her behavior was so unpredictable and constantly changing. I only became more confused and hurt.

I know it's futile to analyse their words... .  but what on earth could "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" mean prior to dumping me?

My ex told me a couple months ago that she has a lot of casual friends but no close friends and she is trying to work on changing that. My ex is very charming at times (sometimes very withdrawn also) but intimacy is a trigger for her acting out behaviors. Yet she longs for intimacy like most of us do. It is a catch-22 for her.

Excerpt
Do you think she was trying to insinuate that I am leaving her no choice but to dump me because I told her off? and she will be lonely again (she already feels lonely anyway).

Or was it said to again, claim victimhood?  My ex was always turning things back around to make herself the poor victim... .  crying easily... .  saying her "heart is pounding" and she is about to "burst into tears"  etc.

She doesn't think like you do. She is reacting not thinking. These are her maladaptive coping mechanisms for somebody she has gotten too close to in a relationship. When conflict comes up and she has to try to deal with some of her own issues is when things go bad and go bad quickly. You looking for answers from her is really freaking her the hell out right now! It really is as simple as that. You are looking for answers and triggering her defense mechanisms.

Excerpt
And what about saying the night before "I'm conflicted... .  because I love you a lot"  and a day before that she said her love "runs deep".

Yet a day later after this fight... she does a complete turn around and is no longer in love with me and "does not have the feeling"? 

My previous ex told me the cliche line  "I love you, but I'm not in love" and later confessed that she said this to only end the relationship and was emotional and angry at the time but she was still in fact in love with me. She said "love doesn't just disappear after a fight!"

This is rather natural don't you think? People with BPD tend to think in black and white terms. You did have a relationship with her. When she isn't upset she very well might think well of you again from time to time. When she does you are all good. When you are bad you are all bad. My relationship lasted about another 3 months after she moved out. I always greeted her with a smile and tried to make the best of our dates. One day we would have a great time. She would look into my eyes and tell me she loves me. We would hug for 5 minutes and she would drive off. The next day (without any contact in between) she would pull up and get out of the car and look at me with pure and total hatred. I was to blame for everything. If it wasn't for me her life would be perfect by now. etc. etc.

This is an interesting video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do6owMR1hSY

Sad to see you are having such a hard time with this. I think some of the other posters see you are stuck right now and just want to help. Do you blame yourself? Do you think if you could have said something different it would have been ok? Do you think you could have helped her more?
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2013, 11:32:29 AM »

Oh god, this would be horrible. Any time my ex was confronted about anything, it would turn into a huge argument, hang up, silent treatment, turning it on me, etc. Even when I would catch him red handed lying about something stupid, he would snap and start yelling and deny it. It truly insane. I don't think I will ever understand.
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« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »

OTH> Thanks for your feedback.

Well, I guess unlike a BPD, I'm able to see my part in the demise of a relationship and take responsibility for my own faults  

I don't regret pulling up my ex about being inconsistent and defensive, though.  My ex was unnecessarily snappy and because I had a bad fight with my Mum shortly after my ex was rude to me- I was incredibly emotional. Nobody should speak so rudely to a partner the way she did.

And my ex WAS too inconsistent. Stuff didn't add up. I didn't have a clear understanding of who she was... .  I must have sensed she didn't have a stable sense of self.

And she was too defensive and could not seem to handle any criticism ever, yet would happily tell me off about things and I'd sit there and take it on the chin.

However, the WAY I went about approaching my concerns with her was wrong. I feel if I had talked to her in a calm manner... .  maybe taken a breather after she snapped at me and even after my fight with my Mum... it would have had a healthier outcome.

Why? Because a BPD is never going to respond well to being criticised... especially in an emotional way... .  ultimately it probably freaked her out and she felt so scared because I'd never lashed out at her like this.

I was so confused about my ex and her inconsistencies that I decided to test her to in a sense, prove to myself I wasn't going mad. So I asked her opinion on something sexual related and she sure enough had changed her mind over it again and I couldn't keep up.

We ended up chatting on the phone and I started to tell her I don't understand all these changes in opinions and actions... .  because I was emotional I started saying she had "dramatic shifts in actions and opinions"... implying she didn't have a stable sense of self.

And I brought up past arguments to again, fuel my argument that she is indeed inconsistent. I did this, because she wasn't getting my point.


My mistake- is that I didn't bring up what was really on my mind and what really made me think she could be deceptive and that was her change in abuse stories.

I didn't have the guts to say  "I don't really believe all your abuse stories. I feel because they change and don't add up- I don't believe you are in fact being honest with me. I think you are fabricating and exaggerating a lot of it to either get sympathy or because you're unstable... are you lying to me?"

I couldn't say this. I didn't have the guts so I took a more passive-aggressive approach.  And I used silly examples of her inconsistencies.

She'd always been sensitive to text messaging... because apparently one ex dumped her via text.  She'd misinterpret my words and take them to mean threatening things.

And she had said to me a few times that she didn't like arguing or discussing things over text that were to do with our relationship.

But because I wasn't getting my point across to her over the phone... I started banging out aggressive texts to her so I couldn't be interrupted. She responded with equally long messages, mind you. But later she told me I 'harass' her over text.
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« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2013, 05:19:02 PM »

So... .  I regret resorting to text messaging... .  even though I wasn't getting my point across to her on the phone and she was interrupting me.

I should have stopped and said I want to talk to her in person.

I think I had been thrown into submission, perhaps... .  because after trying to ask her earlier the previous day why she changed her mind about sending me a nude photo- I got my head bitten off.

So I do believe, I  resorted to texting because there was no other way I could get my point across without her biting at me or interrupting me.  Weak isn't it?

I know why I did this... .  but I regret it all the same. And then I got branded as being harassing... and she exaggerated heavily and told me "I have to hide my phone in my bag everyday because I don't know what's coming from you!"  (such bs as I never texted her rudely every day)

And it also lead to her changing her number. In her head- she'd made me out to be a text terroriser who wouldn't leave her alone. Again, this is very extreme.

But I feel I should have been a bit more compassionate and understood her pain over being previously dumped over text and that was her insecurity... .  so of course she wouldn't respond well to text fights. And even if she bit my head off in person... .  just don't resort to texting!
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2013, 09:41:08 PM »

Do you think if you could have done it better that it would have saved your relationship? Seeing a bit clearer about what was going on in the relationship how do you feel about her now? Do you hope for a reconciliation still? And that is OK. The heart wants what it wants. I felt that way for for months myself but I knew we would have to talk about what happened first. That just wasn't possible for her. I couldn't accept the part of her that was just uncovered. It didn't stop me from wanting to be with her though.

How are you? Is this consuming your energy and thoughts?
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2013, 09:56:37 PM »

I don't wish to get back together with her after the way she has treated me, no.  I initially wanted to get back together... hence why I apologised and tried to contact her for 2 weeks post break up.

But after changing her number- I was in disbelief and really disgusted. 

We were partners for almost 3 years. I had been at the birth of her nephew literally a few days earlier... by her side. I had been there for my ex when she bawled her eyes out after being depressed about being bullied. I had given so much to this woman... so much love.

And not only did she dump me in a confusing way just for having a fight... .  she rubbed salt deep deep into my wound and chose to ignore all attempts at reconciling. She gave me complete silence. It infuriated me.

She didn't even acknowledge my apologies. She chose to brutally discard me as if I was garbage and then change her number... .  

I could never change my number on someone... .  unless they were truly stalking me- because I'd know how terrible they would feel.

She couldn't even have the decency to return my things after asking her for weeks, nor to respond.  And I have to get abused on the phone by her best friend/flat mate to leave her alone.

I did not deserve that... it's completely unwarranted and extreme and quite frankly insane.

I have already apologised to her many times for my "bombarding and slightly attacking" text messages to her. 

But she has retaliated and punished me so severely for this. It's way too extreme.

I doubt she will ever contact me again. She never contacted anyone else she brutally cut off (and there were a few I knew about)

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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2013, 10:13:22 PM »

I'm not sure if telling her in person that I find her way too defensive and inconsistent would have necessarily changed the outcome.

I think she would have still flipped out - and tried to defend herself and then project onto me.

I can't imagine what would have happened if I said  "I don't believe your abuse stories. They keep changing so I think you're lying to get my sympathy because you never received acknowledgement as a kid for being bullied. So now you want to play the victim to me and I am here to fill your void only."

Can you imagine what she would have said to this?  :s I shudder. Perhaps she would have beat me!
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« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2013, 11:20:47 PM »

Dear Diana,

No, logically, none of it makes sense. I still replay things in my mind. I second guess myself. I get mad when I think about the times I snapped. I've been out 15 months and I find myself slowly drifting into everything, every. single. thing. that he ever did/said to me.

I was driving myself absolutely crazy in the r/s. I was BEYOND perfect, trying to anticipate every move, every mood, every trigger. Okay, there were times I was a stark raving lunatic (I'll own that!) but the vast majority of the time, you couldn't ask for a better partner.  Not just on paper- I'm cute, smart, witty and you can dress me up and take me out in public  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) - but I mean I was totally compatible in every single way, except when he decided I wasn't. He had me trained, and trained well.

The first breakups were caused by identifiable no-no's. Miscommunications. I did the wrong thing. I may have gotten too heated in an argument. Nothing worthy of a break-up, but I learned my lessons. As the years went by, my transgressions were smaller and less frequent, but the breakups continued over minutia. Then they were over, seriously, no reason at all. He just suddenly decided that he didn't want to be in a r/s.

The bottom line is, you couldn't have changed any more, you couldn't have been perfect enough. You would have gotten kicked to the curb for raising an eyebrow the wrong way or crossing invisible boundaries or her "sensing" something in you. The threshhold just keeps getting tighter and tighter.

Don't second guess yourself. Don't be consumed by what you could have done differently. When it gets to the point where you question whether or not you should have texted because it triggers her- no, I'm sorry, that's just not reasonable.

It's okay to have to straighten out your brain and try to make sense of the past- but there comes a time when your brain screams "ENOUGH!" and you are tired of analyzing all the possible transgressions you made, or the meanings and subtexts of her words. It will only continue to drive you crazy.


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« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2013, 11:57:06 PM »

thanks Mauser. What you're saying all makes sense...

It's just hard being referred to as a 'harasser' and 'text terroriser'.

I think these references are very extreme and unfair but it still hurts that this is her lasting memory of me and this is what she goes around telling her family and friends.

I know this is what she has gone around and told everyone... including her huge extended family (whom I all got to know).  Everyone believes her (even some mutual friends have turned their backs on me) that I 'harassed' her.  She has such conviction- it worked on me... .  until her stories changed!


I remember when we met... she was still in touch with this woman she'd had a brief dating session with who turned friend or complicated friendship. This woman lived interstate.

She chose not to tell this woman that she'd starting seeing me which should have been my red flag right there! and her excuse was "I don't want her drama... it's easier to manage the friendship this way. And she lives interstate... .  she's not even really a friend anymore" 

yet they were texting every day?

The two of them ended up having a text fight and she actually showed me this woman's texts. The texts sounded nuts but my ex was equally participating in the argument with essay long responses.

My ex ended up ignoring all of this girl's calls, messages and attempts to reconcile after this fight.

Then she cut her off and blocked her on facebook and the friendship was over- just like that.

I remember thinking that I didn't like the sounds of this girl anyway (a past date!) but that it seemed very extreme, rather cruel and wasn't all of this girl's fault.

This girl was also branded as being a text harasser.

Interesting how history repeats itself.

Maybe there is such thing as PTTS (post-traumatic text syndrome) for those who have been dumped by text and are then extremely sensitive to texts after that that they brand everyoone as text harassers when they are also fighting over text with them!   

hahaha
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2013, 12:04:43 AM »

Thought I'd crack a joke to cut through my heavy post 

Straight after typing my previous post... .  it just occurred to me that my ex has a clear pattern!   

I should have noted how she treated this woman before me and how deceptive she was to her too... she didn't even tell this girl (whom she was texting daily) that she had been dating me for 2 months?

This woman was obviously her back up! oh god... .  see what I mean about how DELAYED I am in seeing red flags? Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  


And when they argued... my ex probably thought "oh bugger it, I've met my new supply... I'll wipe this one off!"  And then what followed was my ex smearing this girl to death and blaming their 'text war' totally on her.

This should have been my flag.

I should have known that she was being deceptive to this other woman and cut her off brutally... why wouldn't she do this to me too?

It was right there in front of my eyes in the beginning... she was misleading this "friend" of hers apparently to avoid "drama"  and then cut her off in the same way she did me.
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 12:05:03 AM »

Mauser,

I agree completely.

There were times I raged and snapped... .  and times I should have walked away from arguments... .  they often came out of nowhere... .  in hindsight I can see that many of them came out of me not understanding BPD at all (i had no knowledge of it then) and were times when I was asking for what I thought was quite normal... .  open communication about things that were important to me (knowing the truth about the fact that she was going to her ex's sister's wedding as his date... .  well in his mind his partner)... .  

I have been consumed for the past year with thoughts about what I could have done differently.  The bottom line ... .  quite a bit... .  but not anything that would have resulted in the relationship being what I needed to be ... .  one based on honesty, openness and mutual respect.  

I made many mistakes and transgressions (not major ones like cheating or major lies) but the roller coaster ride certainly got the better of me at times and I got frustrated, run down and utterly emotionally exhausted... .  adrenal overload... .  

I made all that overload worse in the months post separation by analysing her words... even this week struggling to understand why she was incapable of extending me the basic decency of honesty about when her relationship with her new partner started.

All it did was drive me to the point of being a stark raving lunatic (as Mauser expressed very nicely).

It's a tough road out (I know all too well) but the road that staying with her (my ex) had a massive wall at the end and staying would have resulted in me smashing my head against it or trying (in vain) to climb over that wall... .  it couldn't be done.   Maybe the next guy has the skills to knock it over, maybe she will learn some lessons from the mess she left in her wake and pull down some of the wall herself... .  who knows... but for our relationship the wall would never be beaten.

And for me the safest and only path is to turn around and find a road which takes me to a much happier destination.   And on the travel I get to discover a lot more about myself... .  good and bad.   But in the long run the road trip will be worth it.

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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 12:16:06 AM »

I should have noted how she treated this woman before me and how deceptive she was to her too... she didn't even tell this girl (whom she was texting daily) that she had been dating me for 2 months?

Many of us have been there.    I took all her statements about the abuse from her previous ex's as gospel.    She used to go on about how one was the biggest mistake of her life and how the ex before me was so selfish etc.   I actually knew the guy. I knew him well.  I knew him before I knew her.   He was a bit of a ladies man.   He seemed not to be willing to commit to marriage (his parents had separated and I think this influenced him) but he was a good bloke otherwise in my experience.  Funny thing is that she went nuts when one of my friends (sick of seeing the way she treated me, told him that she had lied to both of us)... I got a text saying "what did he ever do to you"... I was then painted black and the guy she had slagged off for ages was painted white again.

I thought I could save my ex from the problems of her past.  And I thought she could do the same with me.  I thought it was true love... .  I believed too much that was said at the outset and paid far too little attention to the actions.

Can't beet myself up over it though any more.  Am only hurting myself.  I do understand those feelings very well though.  Being disappointed in youself for ignoring the red flags.   
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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2013, 12:18:22 AM »

I haven't told my exBPDgf off in a very long time, I try to be calm and let her vent... .  with most people that worked... with her it seemed to kick off a bit of a forest fire. However the criticism was an issue. She could dish out and dish out and dish out harsh, vile, cutting criticism, and couldn't take any. For example... .  she lied to me about a lot of things having to do with my exwife and her communications. She went out of her way to find my exwife's number (wife at time)... call her up and tell her that she was my true love, etc... .  basically the bunny broiler bit from Fatal Instinct. Nice way to make the already horrible divorce even worse. Then she told me that my exwife was sending her threatening texts/emails. I asked to see them, and she said they were too upsetting so she deleted them. My exwife told me she had been contacted by the looney toons I was dating, and when I asked to see emails/texts... .  she showed them to me. This happened more than once... .  a lot more than once. So last night I break NC and see my exBPDgf, and she is telling me she never lied to me, and I point out 2-3 of the more blatant times she lied, and she flips out saying she can't trust me and that I throw her under the bus and don't support her and on and on... .  then went on to give examples of me lying to her. Her examples... .  all "lies of omission", she was upset I hadn't told her about every single communication I had with my exwife and daughter... .  not just that I talked to them, but EXACTLY what was said... .  and that I couldn't be trusted because of that. Pointing out that neither my employer, the FBI, the Federal Govt, or god requires I do that, and given that she freaked out over each thing I did tell her... .  to the point her folks wanted her committed a few times (insane envy/jealousy/fear of abandonment)... .  it was clear to me no rational person would answer those questions and that no one but her saw refusing to be bullied as lying.

So how did she deal with it... .  I would say not well at all. Really, really badly. Like a truly cranky, tired, defiant 3 yr old with bad gas.

And I thank her for that... .  it is helping open my eyes to the degree of disorder she suffers. She did at a quiet moment early in the evening admit that a mental care professional had deemed her "unstable."  That is one of the largest admissions she ever made... .  old news to me.
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« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2013, 02:53:07 AM »

oh god... .  see what I mean about how DELAYED I am in seeing red flags? Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  

This, Diana is a very good observation.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

What makes and made you blind for red-flags? Can you explore this little bit more?
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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2013, 04:14:12 AM »

OH eff... the reason she wanted to keep the relationship a total secret, well long after I thought she would be embarassed about me... a RED FLAG? (reading diana's post... triggered a memory)... .  I mean I was aware... but def a red flag... .  but why?

to cheat?

or to keep her behavior hidden?
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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2013, 04:15:46 AM »

she once told me, a guy she had "fun" with tried to talk to her the next time at a house party, at her house, she just ignored him, and pretended not to hear him... when he got pushy, and closed the door to her room, she started SCREAMING at him. Her housemate, who he was friends with, had no idea what was going on, and after a while had to choose sides... her side.

Uh oh. Poor guy probably came off as creepy, but was probably desperate. Maybe she left out something like...

"no he didn't really 'abuse me', he was like you, escept he was before, you are now, and in the future you are no more"
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2013, 06:08:31 AM »

Really and charred>

have you guys read this article? I just read it and it speaks volumes to me about deception and BPD

www.organizationalchangesolutions.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/deception-and-the-borderline-personality-what-could-have-been/

It's interesting how my ex kept bringing up the word "deception" in our fight. I hadn't even used this word and she kept saying "you're saying something very clear about me. That I am deceptive!" and "you're saying I am dishonest and deceptive! You did!"

And so... I suspected her and I got wiped off as I was a " threat" and found out about her. Seems highly plausible.

Man this is really disturbing stuff.

Everyone lies... But this is like faking a persona... to survive
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« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2013, 06:18:57 AM »

Charred>>

Did you find your ex was easily jealous but if you were jealous it annoyed/angered her?

I remember my ex would say her "heart is pounding" and she feels very comfortable about even the thought of me ever seeing an ex.

Yet she was happily going to catch up with this woman I mentioned above (whom was cut off after a text fight) in Thailand while holidaying with her parents! She hadn't even told this "ex- turned-date" friend that she was seeing me!

Yet she gets panic attacks at the idea of me seeing an ex?

She also overshared her sexual history and gave too many details... and when I started to share she didn't like it one bit!

She also seemed to have a long unforgiving memory... She'd remember things my colleagues even said to me that I had totally forgotten about! She held in to grudges from 10 it more years ago

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« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2013, 06:30:29 AM »

Surnia>

I think two things made me blind

1. I was in love and love is blinding.

2. I had been with a pathological liar before this woman (I know... super lucky hey) and had started to become paranoid in that relationship. This is of course a natural response to being excessively lied to but it got to an unhealthy point where I started to test that ex.  I'd always look for lies after that and it killed the relationship in the end.

In the new relationship w my exBPD I wanted to learn to trust and to not question someone too much... to let things go. I remember when my ex told me she hadn't told this "ex-turned- friend" she'd been seeing me for 3 months YET they talked daily (via text) -I knew that was very suspicious. But I wanted to trust my ex that she wasn't doing it out of deception. She really did feel she had to "manage" the friendship and that this friend of hers was a drama queen whom she wanted to keep at a certain distance.

I also genuinely believed my ex had a life of abuse and was in desperate need of "real love" from a good woman ( like me).  I admit I found it odd my ex had been THAT harassed in her life but my rescuing tendencies were in full force and overpowered all suspicions
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« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2013, 07:09:33 AM »

Charred>>

Did you find your ex was easily jealous but if you were jealous it annoyed/angered her?

I remember my ex would say her "heart is pounding" and she feels very comfortable about even the thought of me ever seeing an ex.

Yet she was happily going to catch up with this woman I mentioned above (whom was cut off after a text fight) in Thailand while holidaying with her parents! She hadn't even told this "ex- turned-date" friend that she was seeing me!

Yet she gets panic attacks at the idea of me seeing an ex?

She also overshared her sexual history and gave too many details... and when I started to share she didn't like it one bit!

She also seemed to have a long unforgiving memory... She'd remember things my colleagues even said to me that I had totally forgotten about! She held in to grudges from 10 it more years ago

Yes, she over shares everything between us with outsiders, and when it came to her and her ex-flings... .  far more detail than is appropriate. She put pictures of her kissing another guy a few miles from my house about a month after we broke up... .  but keep in mind, we hadn't talked once, from her not showing for us to move in together and spend lives together. It was meant to hurt me, best I can tell. She is rabidly jealous, but wanted me to not mind her going to country western clubs to dance... .  because its good exercise. Many of her exBF's came from country-western clubs... so in a committed r/s I was firmly... "no way."  Its been 6 mos since we were together as couple, I have gone out with 2 ladies and will see other people, but I am not putting anything on FB or anywhere else, not because I wouldn't be proud to be seen with the ladies, but because it would endanger them, as she very likely could chase them down and harass them, that is what she did with my exwife.

Grudges/long memory, oh yes, words I said during worst part of divorce (doubts about us... .  second thoughts) were brought up 2 yrs later as proof I didn't care and was committed to my exwife. In fact single most irritating thing she (exBPDgf) did was to continue to refer to my exwife as my wife, saying I hadn't cut the strings, I needed to treat her like an ex (which to her meant being NASTY to her) and then she would call her names like "your breeder" and much much worse. My exwife was with me over 20 yrs, is a nice woman normally and a good mother. We care about each other whether we are divorced now or not, and I want her to succeed and be happy, and she wants me to. Early on it might have been a bit co-dependent, but its been 3 yrs, we have not had sex in closer to 4 yrs, and she has dated other guys, and doesn't like going out with me as my daughter would get false hopes of us getting back together and we don't want to dash her hopes... .  she has adjusted to the divorce very well.

The actions of my pwBPD are those of someone super insecure... .  as far as what she does, however, she doesn't carry herself like an insecure person, you would think she was a general in the marines. That kind of mismatch is hard to make sense of at times. Its a front of some type, suspect it is like a bully that is a coward at heart. I am pretty sure she takes about any hurt and changes it to anger, as she got on me for not getting angry, telling me that sorrow, self-pitty, pain, and so forth are pointless, they make you want to sit around and do nothing, that I needed to get angry and be compelled to action... .  of course the context was my exwife... .  she wanted me angry and striking out at my exwife, and if anything the exwife should be angry with me, I had an affair with an exGF that led to a divorce... .  wrecked our family life and so forth.

I keep thinking that it feels like true love for my exBPDgf, in that it is intense, its idealizing her and after 30 yrs ... .  I still feel it, but I truly believe in my heart that I had personality deficiencys that made for some kind of drama triangle bonding, and it was so strong its still the case. My mother I love, but she is one cold hearted person... .  no fault of her own, her mother died when she was 5, she had to raise 2 sisters and take care of her dad, then stay with grandparents while her dad went to WW2. She had 3 jobs when she met my dad... an absolutely horrible/critical NPD guy, she was married to him and miserable for 15 yrs... .  and that doesn't leave you warm and cuddly. My exBPDgf came on like the loving/smothering mother any little kid would want... .  but wrapped in a sexy bouncy wrapper that would appeal to an early 20's guy, like I was when I met her. First go round with her I didn't listen to the crazy stuff she said so much, as everything would be attention to me... .  then it turned to clinging and hating and I didn't get it, then I was devastated by being dumped... .  didn't accept the hurt and work through it, but ran from it and pushed it down. Years later she was able to get past my defenses like no one else could have... .  and it devastated my life a second time.  I went through a divorce when I was my daughters age... .  and its part of my trauma, and I never wanted to do that to my kid... .  it took its toll on me, and her. So, wanting to be with my exBPDgf is irrational, and given the degree that it is a one-way street, I don't think it is love based, it is need based on both our parts, but it is like an addiction, I needed that "apparently" unconditional love/acceptance... .  except that is not what it is, the good part seems that way at the time, then the million conditions and hateful rejection that should snap me out of my trance come in, and I am conflicted/stressed... .  but not over her.

So, I am seeing a T, and hope he can help me kick her to the curb, heal myself and move on with my life.

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« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2013, 08:00:14 AM »

Everyone lies... But this is like faking a persona... to survive

Not exactly. The article is a good summary. It isn't really a "persona". They aren't faking it.  They have an unstable sense of self. That is the "emptyness". They try new "personas" to fill that emptyness inside them. You know... .  maybe this one will work. 
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« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM »

Should love be blind or could this be an immature view of love? How should trust be built up between two people in a relationship? Doesn't this require some sort of reality testing? What to do with the red flags?

A pathological liar and a BPD who you were going to save from a life of abuse by showing her "real" love? Is this bad luck or a pattern?

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm
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« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2013, 08:20:35 AM »

Diana

That was a great article that you linked to--it described the behavior of my BPD ex to a T. I think I had read it before and it was good to read it again.

My ex took that part about silencing the person who knows the truth to the extreme with her husband--he committed suicide after one of her vicious verbal and physical attacks. She tried to do the same to me for several weeks before I moved out of the house. I had started reading about BPD and was starting to get a clue about what was going on. It helped me realize what she was capable of, and that is was not my behavior that was causing her to behave so viciously. I believe she was actually trying to get me to kill myself, because in her mind I was evil and the cause of all of her bad feelings.

It is a frustrating disorder to try to understand, but I found it helpful to have at least a basic understanding of it so I could sort out what I had experienced for the last 15+ years of my life. The harsh reality is that I was in love with a mentally ill woman who was never going to recover from it, and her reactions to life were unbalanced at best, and often totally insane.

I was one of her staunchest allies, because I loved her and she was my best friend. I was truly deceived in every way possible. When I would stumble across one of her deceptions, she would fly into a rage which often lasted for hours. By the end of it, I had no idea what I had initially tried to discuss with her. BPD Mission Accomplished.

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« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2013, 01:16:50 PM »

... .  it just occurred to me that my ex has a

I should have noted how she treated this woman before me and how deceptive she was to her too... she didn't even tell this girl (whom she was texting daily) that she had been dating me for 2 months?

This woman was obviously her back up! oh god... .  see what I mean about how DELAYED I am in seeing red flags? Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  

This should have been my flag.

I should have known that she was being deceptive to this other woman and cut her off brutally... why wouldn't she do this to me too?

It was right there in front of my eyes in the beginning... she was misleading this "friend" of hers apparently to avoid "drama"  and then cut her off in the same way she did me.

Diana, I know I've said it to you before, but seriously we could have dated the same girl. My ex also was in constant contact with ex flings during our relationship. The most recent one, that she insisted was just a friend, was sending her birthday/xmas cards (saying how amazing she bet my exgf looked in a bikini and she'd better stop writing because she was getting turned on) which my ex would put up in her flat for all to see. She also had a photo of them in a photo booth on her fridge. I asked her who it was when we first started dating, and she lied, and gave another name. My ex always insisted that they were only friends, in fact she was pretty annoying, they argued more than they got on and that she didn't find her attractive. They would constantly be in contact, text, email, Skype, cards/letters... .  yet my exgf didnt mention once that she had found the 'love of her life', she was living with someone, the girl she was crazy about and wanted to marry. I did bring this up to her one day. I lost it one day - I didn't know what I was dealing with at the time but the constant triangulation (read definition) with exes was exhausting and so so stressful - I asked her if she could see how it made me feel to be see her photos and cards/love letters everywhere. I would never do that to her with one of my exes, it would be totally inappropriate. I asked if they were just friends then how come she hasn't felt the need to mention that she's ecstatically happy that she's met the love of her life? Surely you tell a friend that if you've been together 6 months (at that point) and you're now living together? My ex got upset, cried - her way of always deflecting attention from the real topic - ripped down the photo, crumpled it up. It worked... .  she cried, threw a tantrum, I calmed her down, and the photo went back up on the fridge, where it remained.

I guess, with retrospect, I was getting completely miffed with the confusing mixed messages, and the fact that words and actions never matched. She had a framed photo of them stuffed in her wardrobe by her side of the bed the whole time we were together, and I never said a word. There were other exes that she would play off against me, it was literally exhausting. My exgf told one that I'd 'banned' her from meeting up with her. She accidentally showed me that text, which of course upset me because I'd never banned her from seeing anyone. I'd been the most ridiculously trusting gf, completely lacking in boundaries - silly me! This same ex was the one who was 'evil' and had cheated on her, yet on my ex's birthday she turned around and gave this 'evil' girl a belated birthday present in front of everyone.

Unbelievably, one of the main reasons she had for dumping me was because she hated it that I couldn't trust her!  Absurd really... .  this was pure projection on her part. She was so untrustworthy and she knew it, I never said a thing. She sabotaged our relationship at every turn. These are big red flags... .  asking ourselves why we ignored them is the key. They aren't trustworthy, honourable people. I attributed qualities to my ex that she never actually possessed. She has shown me who she is through her behaviour. She s broken and unhappy, as is your ex, completely shame-filled, and really they don't deserve loving and loyal people like us.

It's only with 7 months of hard work, grieving and introspection that I can see what I've escaped - and how lucky I am. To think I almost settled for that life. Think of this as a gift. You've got a chance to get to the core issues here if you try hard enough. Grow from this and become a better, healthier and happier person. Growth spurts are painful. But the person you will be on the other side will be much better for it.
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« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2013, 01:35:02 PM »

I have been consumed for the past year with thoughts about what I could have done differently.  The bottom line ... .  quite a bit... .  but not anything that would have resulted in the relationship being what I needed to be ... .  one based on honesty, openness and mutual respect.  

This is a great quote... .  this is the reality. Reminding myself of this has really helped me to detach. I kick myself for not trusting my instincts and getting out when I had thought it, rather than stick it out and wait to be dumped, but this is the reality. My exgf was sometimes amazing, but also sometimes awful, deceptive, selfish and hurtful... .  but 'sometimes amazing' isn't enough for me.

Honesty, intimacy, openness, respect and reciprocity are what we should be looking for. We're all worth that here. Let someone else do the caretaking.
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« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2013, 01:47:59 PM »

Charred ... your mention of "general in the marines"

By her demeanor alone my BPD ex would have made a great general... .  When she wasn't in her waif/hermit/witch archetype pattern. In her queen pattern she was impressive. In fact, when thinking about our future, which i thought would involve some humanitarian support to others, I was convinced that whiIe I would use my enginering skills, she - through the sheer strength of her words - would inspire people to pull themselves out of the rubble and stand up. She could rule a nation in this mode.

Her jealousy wasn't too apparent though in the rs. But after the breakup she accused me of having back-up lovers waiting in the wings. Pure projection.
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« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2013, 05:34:12 PM »

Diana - thanks so much for posting that article.  It is a great article.  Really explains a lot about my exNPD as well, who was a compulsive liar.  No one around him knew - they all told me what a great guy he was before we met.  I slowly figured out that he'd lied about certain important things MONTHS after we'd broken up.  I didn't realize he was a compulsive liar until much later.  When I told my friends who knew him, they didn't believe it.  My sister and her ex-husband both blew me off as being the wounded girlfriend.  Other people thought I was exaggerating.  I was not.

With my exBPD, I was a lot more conscious about what the truth was, and was able to articulate it close to whenever it was that the "story" was being told.  I'm the only exgf I know of that he won't talk to.  He was able to fool all the others, but not me, so I'm the one who got the full-on silent treatment. 
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« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2013, 06:44:13 PM »

Charred ... your mention of "general in the marines"

By her demeanor alone my BPD ex would have made a great general... .  When she wasn't in her waif/hermit/witch archetype pattern. In her queen pattern she was impressive. In fact, when thinking about our future, which i thought would involve some humanitarian support to others, I was convinced that whiIe I would use my enginering skills, she - through the sheer strength of her words - would inspire people to pull themselves out of the rubble and stand up. She could rule a nation in this mode.

Her jealousy wasn't too apparent though in the rs. But after the breakup she accused me of having back-up lovers waiting in the wings. Pure projection.

waitaminute-

I was also accused of that, and she is sure I am still in an r/s with my exwife, that we never stopped being in an r/s. I dumped her because of my stress level, and it would have been easier to stay NC if I were seeing someone else fun/sexy. But the craziness and stress had to stop.

I really meant she was like a general... .  she seems super strong... as you pointed out... .  when she is not being a seducer, wallflower, or one person Spanish Inquisition. Everything seems to run on hate... .  she seeps anger at times, have never seen anyone else with the ability to have such a high amount of it... .  and hope I never do.
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« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2013, 08:13:45 PM »

OTH>  Yes, I don't think it was real love. I think she 'needed' me to fill her void... she idealised me. That's not love

I loved being idealised and I loved being the knight... it filled my need to be the rescuer too.
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« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2013, 08:20:29 PM »

thank you all for your posts... .  I'll try to respond to you all individually...

Seb>  It totally sounds like we could have dated the same woman. Maybe we did?     Have you also heard BPD is common in the lesbian community?


My ex wasn't in touch with this 'ex fling-turned-friend' for long, though. In the first 3 months we were dating, she was. And then she was cut off and discarded the way I was after they had a fight.

My ex told me all about how they had a long distance thing... and that they'd go and see each other once or twice over the short period they were courting. But they never slept together...

This was also the 'emotionally abusive' woman from my ex's past by the way.   

Yet during the first 3 months I was dating my ex, this emotionally abusive "friend" was texting my ex daily.

My ex told me "I don't actually respond to her... .  she just complains about her life all the time... it's boring. I tend to ignore"

I should have seen that that in itself is a bad sign too... who does that?  Just ignores an alleged 'friend'... most likely my ex loved the attention!

And my ex had planned to go Thailand with her parents that year for New Years Eve. And she told me that this woman was going to be there at the same time and that they'd arranged to catch up for coffee (months before she met me). 

She said  "Now... I don't want you to think I'm going to meet an old flame and have an affair in Thailand! Please don't think this.  We had organised a long time ago that we'd catch up for a drink there... when I go with my parents to Thailand. I'm not really that keen to be honest... but will see her briefly"

Fast forward when she goes to Thailand... .  

I get an emotional call from her saying she just had a fight with this 'friend'. And the friend is "such a drama queen" and blaming her for not being a 'good friend'. She even sent me all their text arguments!

I remember thinking why is she including me in this? I don't want to know about their text argument!

I felt at the time, that my ex and I hadn't been together long enough for me to really put my foot down.


Anyway, my ex ends up ignoring this woman completely... .  (whom was trying to call to reconcile) and cutting this woman off completely...

I remember thinking it was a good thing at the time... I didn't want her to be in touch with an old flame... BUT... I thought it was very cruel how she cut her off too.

From the sound of it... the 'friend' wasn't entirely to blame for the fight. And my ex had been misleading to her by not telling her she was seeing a new woman!

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« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2013, 08:32:53 PM »

Even after typing the above I feel like the biggest idiot.


My ex insisted they were friends and she said that this woman and her had only dated briefly and it didn't work so they stayed 'friends'.

Yet if this woman was a 'friend'... why did my ex choose to ignore her daily texts?

And if she was a 'friend', why didn't my ex tell this woman she had started dating me and for 3 months? 

My ex gave me the reason that "it would create too much drama she doesn't want to deal with" and this 'friend' lives "interstate anyway so it's not going to be an issue".

Sounds like my ex was keeping this 'friend' as back up you think? 

(even though she lived interstate... could be emotional back up?)
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« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2013, 08:53:08 PM »

I think she 'needed' me to fill her void...

Do you feel you may be using her to fill your own void? Your posts are pretty much all about HER and HER actions, and some of how You reacted to that. What's going on in YOU to need to be so focused on what's been going on with Her? This is a place of healing for Ourselves and facing Ourselves. Some of which includes looking at the past, for sure, and who did or did not do what when and where. Please use the time and energy you're expending (dwelling on Her Stuff) on looking at Yourself more, on Your Own Stuff. You two are broken up now, correct? Where do you go from here? How do YOU best heal?
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Suzn
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
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« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2013, 08:55:01 PM »

   Have you also heard BPD is common in the lesbian community?

Diana where are you finding this? To my knowledge there is no data supporting this.
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“Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.” ~Jacob M. Braude
Diana82
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« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2013, 09:52:10 PM »

Hard truth> no problems! Thought it was worth putting up

Hmm it's disturbing how they appear stable, honest and moral to everyone else... but in intimate relationships they show their true colours... eventually any way.

My ex was always on this moral high ground claiming how she was honest and direct and "says it how it is". She had friends who got cheated on and was always saying how terrible people are and how awful her exes were. And how emotionally bullied she had been...

I now think my ex is the bully.

Silence and manipulation (even after break up) is still a form of abuse no?
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Diana82
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« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2013, 10:00:41 PM »

Myself>  good question... .  

Well, I met my recent exBPD not long after I'd broken off with the other ex (pathological liar).

My 'void' was that I needed an honest person in my life... and this woman seemed to fill that at the time.

She was 'open' on the first date about a lot of stuff. A month into it, I heard about everything her exes did... she never 'hid' stuff or was embarrassed about how she was rejected.  Compared to the previous woman who hid everything and tried to make her past seem amazing and that she'd had loads of sexual partners etc.

I thought "finally! An honest woman who is ok with being honest and open... even about abuse! This woman has been so rejected in her life and doesn't hesitate telling me!"

she seemed to fill my need for an honest open woman.  She was exactly what I wanted- at the time.

And I also have strong rescuing tendencies. When I heard about her abuse stories... I wanted to be the best thing that happened to her.
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Diana82
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« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2013, 10:06:29 PM »

Hi Suzn...

I have not read this anywhere per ce. I have heard about it through my community... .  

It seems a few other gay women I know have dated BPDs! it may just be a coincidence
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Diana82
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« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2013, 10:16:01 PM »

Hi again Myself

At the moment I'm dealing with the below feelings... .  

1. How could my long term partner dump me over a fight about her being possibly deceptive/ too inconsistent?  Was she freaked out I 'found out' about her and she ran like a coyote?  What kind of person dumps someone over that unless they are in fact suspicious 

2. Why did she change her number after I tried to apologise and seek explanation?  This is such a drastic measure and so offensive. Did she really feel that harassed she had to resort to changing her number?

3. Why the complete silence... .  even when asking about my stuff to be returned?  why was it so hard for her to at least send me a one liner?

4. Why is she resorting to smearing me so much and how come other people believe it? her entire extended family and friends knew me... and all liked me... .  how could they believe that I am suddenly a crazy harasser?  do they not think there's always two sides to every story?  Do they not see a pattern with my ex that most women whom she dates or gets involved with get wiped off because they "harass" her?

5. What do I do, if I hear about more smearing? What if my ex goes as far as saying I too "almost raped" her  (as she said about her other ex). Would it take a cease and desist letter at this point?   I worry about my credibility in the small gay community here. Sometimes I feel like leaving town
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« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2013, 10:38:08 PM »

Diana,

You are undoubtedly in a lot of pain and struggling with the confusion a lot of us here have had to deal with. It appears as though you are in a rut, and can't help but have all these questions swirl around endlessly. It is shocking sometimes what they can do as far as smear campaigns. I haven't been through one of this magnitude thank GOD, but can completely empathize about how horrific it must be to live through.

As far as the smear campaigns, the best, the ONLY thing you can do is to let it roll off you as best as you can and to minimize statements if they are brought to your attention. Too much defensiveness, may backfire.  Just a chuckle and, "Well that is untrue but if it makes her feel better to say that I can't control that... .  ANYWAY [change subject]".  Even if you are furious or REELING from pain and frustration inside.

If your small community is indeed small, pretty soon she will be alienating much of the community simply based on her patterns.  She already has with friends.  I imagine the word would eventually get out about her character.

The other questions, the "Whys", the "how could she thinks this's", the "Trying to understand".

Diana, you've requested this forum's input on these questions multiple times.  Might I suggest you go back and review the responses and really let it sink in.  We are all only speculating, because we can not possibly rationalize an irrational person.  But we can and many have tried to bring this back to YOU.

Your answer to myself wasn't really answering his questions. Again your responses seemed to be about her and understanding her. Aint going to happen!  How do you let go... .  for your own mental health, you must try to turn the focus to things you can control.

You can control yourself.  You can understand yourself.

So back to myself's questions:

You two are broken up now, Correct? Where do you go from here? How do YOU best heal?

By heal, how do you heal yourself?  This isn't about manically thinking about every possible way you may have misstepped.  It is about giving yourself a break, accepting that you can not change reality, you can not change what is, you can not change the past.  How do you slow down and eventually stop the self torture involved in trying to get inside the brain of an unstable person that was toxic to you.

What about you?  

Hint: It involves less energy poured into her and the past and what happened or didn't happen, and more energy turned towards you, the happy, healthy, confident person that is waiting for your attention.  
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Surnia
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Relationship status: 8 y married, divorced since 2012-11-22
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« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2013, 10:52:40 PM »



Staff only

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