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Author Topic: How did your exBPD deal with you telling them off/questioning them?  (Read 4377 times)
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 12:23:40 AM »

Sorry Diana... .  had Diane on my brain as was just emailing someone called Diane!.

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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 08:08:40 AM »

I am working on myself... ie my rescuing tendencies. I am also leading an active social life and putting a lot of effort into work.

Thanks for responding Diana. This is awesome, I'd like to hear more about this.

I understand how you would feel isolated since few understand BPD. You're right its hard to wrap your head around for most people. There's a saying "don't let someone rent space in your head", it seems all of your thoughts are wrapped up in her actions.

Do you see she is living rent free and tearing up the place? Time for an eviction notice my friend. What does working on your rescuing look like? How are you working on this?

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“Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.” ~Jacob M. Braude
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2013, 08:44:46 AM »

with furious rage-well beyond the range of normal.
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2013, 09:25:00 AM »

I know it hurts. Somebody you loved and cared about left your life and ran away from the r/s in a very irrational manner. It is very hurtful and takes some time to come to grips with. I left on a 4 day trip when things were great. I returned and She wouldn't talk, touch, or look at me. She moved out a few days later. It really hurt. I spent the next 3 months seeking answers from her. This was by far the worst time of our relationship because her behavior was so unpredictable and constantly changing. I only became more confused and hurt.

I know it's futile to analyse their words... .  but what on earth could "I'm a lonely person-I was lonely before I met you" mean prior to dumping me?

My ex told me a couple months ago that she has a lot of casual friends but no close friends and she is trying to work on changing that. My ex is very charming at times (sometimes very withdrawn also) but intimacy is a trigger for her acting out behaviors. Yet she longs for intimacy like most of us do. It is a catch-22 for her.

Excerpt
Do you think she was trying to insinuate that I am leaving her no choice but to dump me because I told her off? and she will be lonely again (she already feels lonely anyway).

Or was it said to again, claim victimhood?  My ex was always turning things back around to make herself the poor victim... .  crying easily... .  saying her "heart is pounding" and she is about to "burst into tears"  etc.

She doesn't think like you do. She is reacting not thinking. These are her maladaptive coping mechanisms for somebody she has gotten too close to in a relationship. When conflict comes up and she has to try to deal with some of her own issues is when things go bad and go bad quickly. You looking for answers from her is really freaking her the hell out right now! It really is as simple as that. You are looking for answers and triggering her defense mechanisms.

Excerpt
And what about saying the night before "I'm conflicted... .  because I love you a lot"  and a day before that she said her love "runs deep".

Yet a day later after this fight... she does a complete turn around and is no longer in love with me and "does not have the feeling"? 

My previous ex told me the cliche line  "I love you, but I'm not in love" and later confessed that she said this to only end the relationship and was emotional and angry at the time but she was still in fact in love with me. She said "love doesn't just disappear after a fight!"

This is rather natural don't you think? People with BPD tend to think in black and white terms. You did have a relationship with her. When she isn't upset she very well might think well of you again from time to time. When she does you are all good. When you are bad you are all bad. My relationship lasted about another 3 months after she moved out. I always greeted her with a smile and tried to make the best of our dates. One day we would have a great time. She would look into my eyes and tell me she loves me. We would hug for 5 minutes and she would drive off. The next day (without any contact in between) she would pull up and get out of the car and look at me with pure and total hatred. I was to blame for everything. If it wasn't for me her life would be perfect by now. etc. etc.

This is an interesting video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do6owMR1hSY

Sad to see you are having such a hard time with this. I think some of the other posters see you are stuck right now and just want to help. Do you blame yourself? Do you think if you could have said something different it would have been ok? Do you think you could have helped her more?
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2013, 11:32:29 AM »

Oh god, this would be horrible. Any time my ex was confronted about anything, it would turn into a huge argument, hang up, silent treatment, turning it on me, etc. Even when I would catch him red handed lying about something stupid, he would snap and start yelling and deny it. It truly insane. I don't think I will ever understand.
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Diana82
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« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »

OTH> Thanks for your feedback.

Well, I guess unlike a BPD, I'm able to see my part in the demise of a relationship and take responsibility for my own faults  

I don't regret pulling up my ex about being inconsistent and defensive, though.  My ex was unnecessarily snappy and because I had a bad fight with my Mum shortly after my ex was rude to me- I was incredibly emotional. Nobody should speak so rudely to a partner the way she did.

And my ex WAS too inconsistent. Stuff didn't add up. I didn't have a clear understanding of who she was... .  I must have sensed she didn't have a stable sense of self.

And she was too defensive and could not seem to handle any criticism ever, yet would happily tell me off about things and I'd sit there and take it on the chin.

However, the WAY I went about approaching my concerns with her was wrong. I feel if I had talked to her in a calm manner... .  maybe taken a breather after she snapped at me and even after my fight with my Mum... it would have had a healthier outcome.

Why? Because a BPD is never going to respond well to being criticised... especially in an emotional way... .  ultimately it probably freaked her out and she felt so scared because I'd never lashed out at her like this.

I was so confused about my ex and her inconsistencies that I decided to test her to in a sense, prove to myself I wasn't going mad. So I asked her opinion on something sexual related and she sure enough had changed her mind over it again and I couldn't keep up.

We ended up chatting on the phone and I started to tell her I don't understand all these changes in opinions and actions... .  because I was emotional I started saying she had "dramatic shifts in actions and opinions"... implying she didn't have a stable sense of self.

And I brought up past arguments to again, fuel my argument that she is indeed inconsistent. I did this, because she wasn't getting my point.


My mistake- is that I didn't bring up what was really on my mind and what really made me think she could be deceptive and that was her change in abuse stories.

I didn't have the guts to say  "I don't really believe all your abuse stories. I feel because they change and don't add up- I don't believe you are in fact being honest with me. I think you are fabricating and exaggerating a lot of it to either get sympathy or because you're unstable... are you lying to me?"

I couldn't say this. I didn't have the guts so I took a more passive-aggressive approach.  And I used silly examples of her inconsistencies.

She'd always been sensitive to text messaging... because apparently one ex dumped her via text.  She'd misinterpret my words and take them to mean threatening things.

And she had said to me a few times that she didn't like arguing or discussing things over text that were to do with our relationship.

But because I wasn't getting my point across to her over the phone... I started banging out aggressive texts to her so I couldn't be interrupted. She responded with equally long messages, mind you. But later she told me I 'harass' her over text.
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Diana82
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« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2013, 05:19:02 PM »

So... .  I regret resorting to text messaging... .  even though I wasn't getting my point across to her on the phone and she was interrupting me.

I should have stopped and said I want to talk to her in person.

I think I had been thrown into submission, perhaps... .  because after trying to ask her earlier the previous day why she changed her mind about sending me a nude photo- I got my head bitten off.

So I do believe, I  resorted to texting because there was no other way I could get my point across without her biting at me or interrupting me.  Weak isn't it?

I know why I did this... .  but I regret it all the same. And then I got branded as being harassing... and she exaggerated heavily and told me "I have to hide my phone in my bag everyday because I don't know what's coming from you!"  (such bs as I never texted her rudely every day)

And it also lead to her changing her number. In her head- she'd made me out to be a text terroriser who wouldn't leave her alone. Again, this is very extreme.

But I feel I should have been a bit more compassionate and understood her pain over being previously dumped over text and that was her insecurity... .  so of course she wouldn't respond well to text fights. And even if she bit my head off in person... .  just don't resort to texting!
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2013, 09:41:08 PM »

Do you think if you could have done it better that it would have saved your relationship? Seeing a bit clearer about what was going on in the relationship how do you feel about her now? Do you hope for a reconciliation still? And that is OK. The heart wants what it wants. I felt that way for for months myself but I knew we would have to talk about what happened first. That just wasn't possible for her. I couldn't accept the part of her that was just uncovered. It didn't stop me from wanting to be with her though.

How are you? Is this consuming your energy and thoughts?
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Diana82
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2013, 09:56:37 PM »

I don't wish to get back together with her after the way she has treated me, no.  I initially wanted to get back together... hence why I apologised and tried to contact her for 2 weeks post break up.

But after changing her number- I was in disbelief and really disgusted. 

We were partners for almost 3 years. I had been at the birth of her nephew literally a few days earlier... by her side. I had been there for my ex when she bawled her eyes out after being depressed about being bullied. I had given so much to this woman... so much love.

And not only did she dump me in a confusing way just for having a fight... .  she rubbed salt deep deep into my wound and chose to ignore all attempts at reconciling. She gave me complete silence. It infuriated me.

She didn't even acknowledge my apologies. She chose to brutally discard me as if I was garbage and then change her number... .  

I could never change my number on someone... .  unless they were truly stalking me- because I'd know how terrible they would feel.

She couldn't even have the decency to return my things after asking her for weeks, nor to respond.  And I have to get abused on the phone by her best friend/flat mate to leave her alone.

I did not deserve that... it's completely unwarranted and extreme and quite frankly insane.

I have already apologised to her many times for my "bombarding and slightly attacking" text messages to her. 

But she has retaliated and punished me so severely for this. It's way too extreme.

I doubt she will ever contact me again. She never contacted anyone else she brutally cut off (and there were a few I knew about)

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Diana82
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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2013, 10:13:22 PM »

I'm not sure if telling her in person that I find her way too defensive and inconsistent would have necessarily changed the outcome.

I think she would have still flipped out - and tried to defend herself and then project onto me.

I can't imagine what would have happened if I said  "I don't believe your abuse stories. They keep changing so I think you're lying to get my sympathy because you never received acknowledgement as a kid for being bullied. So now you want to play the victim to me and I am here to fill your void only."

Can you imagine what she would have said to this?  :s I shudder. Perhaps she would have beat me!
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« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2013, 11:20:47 PM »

Dear Diana,

No, logically, none of it makes sense. I still replay things in my mind. I second guess myself. I get mad when I think about the times I snapped. I've been out 15 months and I find myself slowly drifting into everything, every. single. thing. that he ever did/said to me.

I was driving myself absolutely crazy in the r/s. I was BEYOND perfect, trying to anticipate every move, every mood, every trigger. Okay, there were times I was a stark raving lunatic (I'll own that!) but the vast majority of the time, you couldn't ask for a better partner.  Not just on paper- I'm cute, smart, witty and you can dress me up and take me out in public  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) - but I mean I was totally compatible in every single way, except when he decided I wasn't. He had me trained, and trained well.

The first breakups were caused by identifiable no-no's. Miscommunications. I did the wrong thing. I may have gotten too heated in an argument. Nothing worthy of a break-up, but I learned my lessons. As the years went by, my transgressions were smaller and less frequent, but the breakups continued over minutia. Then they were over, seriously, no reason at all. He just suddenly decided that he didn't want to be in a r/s.

The bottom line is, you couldn't have changed any more, you couldn't have been perfect enough. You would have gotten kicked to the curb for raising an eyebrow the wrong way or crossing invisible boundaries or her "sensing" something in you. The threshhold just keeps getting tighter and tighter.

Don't second guess yourself. Don't be consumed by what you could have done differently. When it gets to the point where you question whether or not you should have texted because it triggers her- no, I'm sorry, that's just not reasonable.

It's okay to have to straighten out your brain and try to make sense of the past- but there comes a time when your brain screams "ENOUGH!" and you are tired of analyzing all the possible transgressions you made, or the meanings and subtexts of her words. It will only continue to drive you crazy.


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Diana82
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« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2013, 11:57:06 PM »

thanks Mauser. What you're saying all makes sense...

It's just hard being referred to as a 'harasser' and 'text terroriser'.

I think these references are very extreme and unfair but it still hurts that this is her lasting memory of me and this is what she goes around telling her family and friends.

I know this is what she has gone around and told everyone... including her huge extended family (whom I all got to know).  Everyone believes her (even some mutual friends have turned their backs on me) that I 'harassed' her.  She has such conviction- it worked on me... .  until her stories changed!


I remember when we met... she was still in touch with this woman she'd had a brief dating session with who turned friend or complicated friendship. This woman lived interstate.

She chose not to tell this woman that she'd starting seeing me which should have been my red flag right there! and her excuse was "I don't want her drama... it's easier to manage the friendship this way. And she lives interstate... .  she's not even really a friend anymore" 

yet they were texting every day?

The two of them ended up having a text fight and she actually showed me this woman's texts. The texts sounded nuts but my ex was equally participating in the argument with essay long responses.

My ex ended up ignoring all of this girl's calls, messages and attempts to reconcile after this fight.

Then she cut her off and blocked her on facebook and the friendship was over- just like that.

I remember thinking that I didn't like the sounds of this girl anyway (a past date!) but that it seemed very extreme, rather cruel and wasn't all of this girl's fault.

This girl was also branded as being a text harasser.

Interesting how history repeats itself.

Maybe there is such thing as PTTS (post-traumatic text syndrome) for those who have been dumped by text and are then extremely sensitive to texts after that that they brand everyoone as text harassers when they are also fighting over text with them!   

hahaha
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Diana82
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2013, 12:04:43 AM »

Thought I'd crack a joke to cut through my heavy post 

Straight after typing my previous post... .  it just occurred to me that my ex has a clear pattern!   

I should have noted how she treated this woman before me and how deceptive she was to her too... she didn't even tell this girl (whom she was texting daily) that she had been dating me for 2 months?

This woman was obviously her back up! oh god... .  see what I mean about how DELAYED I am in seeing red flags? Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  


And when they argued... my ex probably thought "oh bugger it, I've met my new supply... I'll wipe this one off!"  And then what followed was my ex smearing this girl to death and blaming their 'text war' totally on her.

This should have been my flag.

I should have known that she was being deceptive to this other woman and cut her off brutally... why wouldn't she do this to me too?

It was right there in front of my eyes in the beginning... she was misleading this "friend" of hers apparently to avoid "drama"  and then cut her off in the same way she did me.
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 12:05:03 AM »

Mauser,

I agree completely.

There were times I raged and snapped... .  and times I should have walked away from arguments... .  they often came out of nowhere... .  in hindsight I can see that many of them came out of me not understanding BPD at all (i had no knowledge of it then) and were times when I was asking for what I thought was quite normal... .  open communication about things that were important to me (knowing the truth about the fact that she was going to her ex's sister's wedding as his date... .  well in his mind his partner)... .  

I have been consumed for the past year with thoughts about what I could have done differently.  The bottom line ... .  quite a bit... .  but not anything that would have resulted in the relationship being what I needed to be ... .  one based on honesty, openness and mutual respect.  

I made many mistakes and transgressions (not major ones like cheating or major lies) but the roller coaster ride certainly got the better of me at times and I got frustrated, run down and utterly emotionally exhausted... .  adrenal overload... .  

I made all that overload worse in the months post separation by analysing her words... even this week struggling to understand why she was incapable of extending me the basic decency of honesty about when her relationship with her new partner started.

All it did was drive me to the point of being a stark raving lunatic (as Mauser expressed very nicely).

It's a tough road out (I know all too well) but the road that staying with her (my ex) had a massive wall at the end and staying would have resulted in me smashing my head against it or trying (in vain) to climb over that wall... .  it couldn't be done.   Maybe the next guy has the skills to knock it over, maybe she will learn some lessons from the mess she left in her wake and pull down some of the wall herself... .  who knows... but for our relationship the wall would never be beaten.

And for me the safest and only path is to turn around and find a road which takes me to a much happier destination.   And on the travel I get to discover a lot more about myself... .  good and bad.   But in the long run the road trip will be worth it.

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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 12:16:06 AM »

I should have noted how she treated this woman before me and how deceptive she was to her too... she didn't even tell this girl (whom she was texting daily) that she had been dating me for 2 months?

Many of us have been there.    I took all her statements about the abuse from her previous ex's as gospel.    She used to go on about how one was the biggest mistake of her life and how the ex before me was so selfish etc.   I actually knew the guy. I knew him well.  I knew him before I knew her.   He was a bit of a ladies man.   He seemed not to be willing to commit to marriage (his parents had separated and I think this influenced him) but he was a good bloke otherwise in my experience.  Funny thing is that she went nuts when one of my friends (sick of seeing the way she treated me, told him that she had lied to both of us)... I got a text saying "what did he ever do to you"... I was then painted black and the guy she had slagged off for ages was painted white again.

I thought I could save my ex from the problems of her past.  And I thought she could do the same with me.  I thought it was true love... .  I believed too much that was said at the outset and paid far too little attention to the actions.

Can't beet myself up over it though any more.  Am only hurting myself.  I do understand those feelings very well though.  Being disappointed in youself for ignoring the red flags.   
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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2013, 12:18:22 AM »

I haven't told my exBPDgf off in a very long time, I try to be calm and let her vent... .  with most people that worked... with her it seemed to kick off a bit of a forest fire. However the criticism was an issue. She could dish out and dish out and dish out harsh, vile, cutting criticism, and couldn't take any. For example... .  she lied to me about a lot of things having to do with my exwife and her communications. She went out of her way to find my exwife's number (wife at time)... call her up and tell her that she was my true love, etc... .  basically the bunny broiler bit from Fatal Instinct. Nice way to make the already horrible divorce even worse. Then she told me that my exwife was sending her threatening texts/emails. I asked to see them, and she said they were too upsetting so she deleted them. My exwife told me she had been contacted by the looney toons I was dating, and when I asked to see emails/texts... .  she showed them to me. This happened more than once... .  a lot more than once. So last night I break NC and see my exBPDgf, and she is telling me she never lied to me, and I point out 2-3 of the more blatant times she lied, and she flips out saying she can't trust me and that I throw her under the bus and don't support her and on and on... .  then went on to give examples of me lying to her. Her examples... .  all "lies of omission", she was upset I hadn't told her about every single communication I had with my exwife and daughter... .  not just that I talked to them, but EXACTLY what was said... .  and that I couldn't be trusted because of that. Pointing out that neither my employer, the FBI, the Federal Govt, or god requires I do that, and given that she freaked out over each thing I did tell her... .  to the point her folks wanted her committed a few times (insane envy/jealousy/fear of abandonment)... .  it was clear to me no rational person would answer those questions and that no one but her saw refusing to be bullied as lying.

So how did she deal with it... .  I would say not well at all. Really, really badly. Like a truly cranky, tired, defiant 3 yr old with bad gas.

And I thank her for that... .  it is helping open my eyes to the degree of disorder she suffers. She did at a quiet moment early in the evening admit that a mental care professional had deemed her "unstable."  That is one of the largest admissions she ever made... .  old news to me.
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Surnia
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« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2013, 02:53:07 AM »

oh god... .  see what I mean about how DELAYED I am in seeing red flags? Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  

This, Diana is a very good observation.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

What makes and made you blind for red-flags? Can you explore this little bit more?
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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2013, 04:14:12 AM »

OH eff... the reason she wanted to keep the relationship a total secret, well long after I thought she would be embarassed about me... a RED FLAG? (reading diana's post... triggered a memory)... .  I mean I was aware... but def a red flag... .  but why?

to cheat?

or to keep her behavior hidden?
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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2013, 04:15:46 AM »

she once told me, a guy she had "fun" with tried to talk to her the next time at a house party, at her house, she just ignored him, and pretended not to hear him... when he got pushy, and closed the door to her room, she started SCREAMING at him. Her housemate, who he was friends with, had no idea what was going on, and after a while had to choose sides... her side.

Uh oh. Poor guy probably came off as creepy, but was probably desperate. Maybe she left out something like...

"no he didn't really 'abuse me', he was like you, escept he was before, you are now, and in the future you are no more"
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Diana82
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2013, 06:08:31 AM »

Really and charred>

have you guys read this article? I just read it and it speaks volumes to me about deception and BPD

www.organizationalchangesolutions.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/deception-and-the-borderline-personality-what-could-have-been/

It's interesting how my ex kept bringing up the word "deception" in our fight. I hadn't even used this word and she kept saying "you're saying something very clear about me. That I am deceptive!" and "you're saying I am dishonest and deceptive! You did!"

And so... I suspected her and I got wiped off as I was a " threat" and found out about her. Seems highly plausible.

Man this is really disturbing stuff.

Everyone lies... But this is like faking a persona... to survive
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Diana82
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« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2013, 06:18:57 AM »

Charred>>

Did you find your ex was easily jealous but if you were jealous it annoyed/angered her?

I remember my ex would say her "heart is pounding" and she feels very comfortable about even the thought of me ever seeing an ex.

Yet she was happily going to catch up with this woman I mentioned above (whom was cut off after a text fight) in Thailand while holidaying with her parents! She hadn't even told this "ex- turned-date" friend that she was seeing me!

Yet she gets panic attacks at the idea of me seeing an ex?

She also overshared her sexual history and gave too many details... and when I started to share she didn't like it one bit!

She also seemed to have a long unforgiving memory... She'd remember things my colleagues even said to me that I had totally forgotten about! She held in to grudges from 10 it more years ago

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« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2013, 06:30:29 AM »

Surnia>

I think two things made me blind

1. I was in love and love is blinding.

2. I had been with a pathological liar before this woman (I know... super lucky hey) and had started to become paranoid in that relationship. This is of course a natural response to being excessively lied to but it got to an unhealthy point where I started to test that ex.  I'd always look for lies after that and it killed the relationship in the end.

In the new relationship w my exBPD I wanted to learn to trust and to not question someone too much... to let things go. I remember when my ex told me she hadn't told this "ex-turned- friend" she'd been seeing me for 3 months YET they talked daily (via text) -I knew that was very suspicious. But I wanted to trust my ex that she wasn't doing it out of deception. She really did feel she had to "manage" the friendship and that this friend of hers was a drama queen whom she wanted to keep at a certain distance.

I also genuinely believed my ex had a life of abuse and was in desperate need of "real love" from a good woman ( like me).  I admit I found it odd my ex had been THAT harassed in her life but my rescuing tendencies were in full force and overpowered all suspicions
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« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2013, 07:09:33 AM »

Charred>>

Did you find your ex was easily jealous but if you were jealous it annoyed/angered her?

I remember my ex would say her "heart is pounding" and she feels very comfortable about even the thought of me ever seeing an ex.

Yet she was happily going to catch up with this woman I mentioned above (whom was cut off after a text fight) in Thailand while holidaying with her parents! She hadn't even told this "ex- turned-date" friend that she was seeing me!

Yet she gets panic attacks at the idea of me seeing an ex?

She also overshared her sexual history and gave too many details... and when I started to share she didn't like it one bit!

She also seemed to have a long unforgiving memory... She'd remember things my colleagues even said to me that I had totally forgotten about! She held in to grudges from 10 it more years ago

Yes, she over shares everything between us with outsiders, and when it came to her and her ex-flings... .  far more detail than is appropriate. She put pictures of her kissing another guy a few miles from my house about a month after we broke up... .  but keep in mind, we hadn't talked once, from her not showing for us to move in together and spend lives together. It was meant to hurt me, best I can tell. She is rabidly jealous, but wanted me to not mind her going to country western clubs to dance... .  because its good exercise. Many of her exBF's came from country-western clubs... so in a committed r/s I was firmly... "no way."  Its been 6 mos since we were together as couple, I have gone out with 2 ladies and will see other people, but I am not putting anything on FB or anywhere else, not because I wouldn't be proud to be seen with the ladies, but because it would endanger them, as she very likely could chase them down and harass them, that is what she did with my exwife.

Grudges/long memory, oh yes, words I said during worst part of divorce (doubts about us... .  second thoughts) were brought up 2 yrs later as proof I didn't care and was committed to my exwife. In fact single most irritating thing she (exBPDgf) did was to continue to refer to my exwife as my wife, saying I hadn't cut the strings, I needed to treat her like an ex (which to her meant being NASTY to her) and then she would call her names like "your breeder" and much much worse. My exwife was with me over 20 yrs, is a nice woman normally and a good mother. We care about each other whether we are divorced now or not, and I want her to succeed and be happy, and she wants me to. Early on it might have been a bit co-dependent, but its been 3 yrs, we have not had sex in closer to 4 yrs, and she has dated other guys, and doesn't like going out with me as my daughter would get false hopes of us getting back together and we don't want to dash her hopes... .  she has adjusted to the divorce very well.

The actions of my pwBPD are those of someone super insecure... .  as far as what she does, however, she doesn't carry herself like an insecure person, you would think she was a general in the marines. That kind of mismatch is hard to make sense of at times. Its a front of some type, suspect it is like a bully that is a coward at heart. I am pretty sure she takes about any hurt and changes it to anger, as she got on me for not getting angry, telling me that sorrow, self-pitty, pain, and so forth are pointless, they make you want to sit around and do nothing, that I needed to get angry and be compelled to action... .  of course the context was my exwife... .  she wanted me angry and striking out at my exwife, and if anything the exwife should be angry with me, I had an affair with an exGF that led to a divorce... .  wrecked our family life and so forth.

I keep thinking that it feels like true love for my exBPDgf, in that it is intense, its idealizing her and after 30 yrs ... .  I still feel it, but I truly believe in my heart that I had personality deficiencys that made for some kind of drama triangle bonding, and it was so strong its still the case. My mother I love, but she is one cold hearted person... .  no fault of her own, her mother died when she was 5, she had to raise 2 sisters and take care of her dad, then stay with grandparents while her dad went to WW2. She had 3 jobs when she met my dad... an absolutely horrible/critical NPD guy, she was married to him and miserable for 15 yrs... .  and that doesn't leave you warm and cuddly. My exBPDgf came on like the loving/smothering mother any little kid would want... .  but wrapped in a sexy bouncy wrapper that would appeal to an early 20's guy, like I was when I met her. First go round with her I didn't listen to the crazy stuff she said so much, as everything would be attention to me... .  then it turned to clinging and hating and I didn't get it, then I was devastated by being dumped... .  didn't accept the hurt and work through it, but ran from it and pushed it down. Years later she was able to get past my defenses like no one else could have... .  and it devastated my life a second time.  I went through a divorce when I was my daughters age... .  and its part of my trauma, and I never wanted to do that to my kid... .  it took its toll on me, and her. So, wanting to be with my exBPDgf is irrational, and given the degree that it is a one-way street, I don't think it is love based, it is need based on both our parts, but it is like an addiction, I needed that "apparently" unconditional love/acceptance... .  except that is not what it is, the good part seems that way at the time, then the million conditions and hateful rejection that should snap me out of my trance come in, and I am conflicted/stressed... .  but not over her.

So, I am seeing a T, and hope he can help me kick her to the curb, heal myself and move on with my life.

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« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2013, 08:00:14 AM »

Everyone lies... But this is like faking a persona... to survive

Not exactly. The article is a good summary. It isn't really a "persona". They aren't faking it.  They have an unstable sense of self. That is the "emptyness". They try new "personas" to fill that emptyness inside them. You know... .  maybe this one will work. 
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« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2013, 08:11:18 AM »

Should love be blind or could this be an immature view of love? How should trust be built up between two people in a relationship? Doesn't this require some sort of reality testing? What to do with the red flags?

A pathological liar and a BPD who you were going to save from a life of abuse by showing her "real" love? Is this bad luck or a pattern?

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm
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« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2013, 08:20:35 AM »

Diana

That was a great article that you linked to--it described the behavior of my BPD ex to a T. I think I had read it before and it was good to read it again.

My ex took that part about silencing the person who knows the truth to the extreme with her husband--he committed suicide after one of her vicious verbal and physical attacks. She tried to do the same to me for several weeks before I moved out of the house. I had started reading about BPD and was starting to get a clue about what was going on. It helped me realize what she was capable of, and that is was not my behavior that was causing her to behave so viciously. I believe she was actually trying to get me to kill myself, because in her mind I was evil and the cause of all of her bad feelings.

It is a frustrating disorder to try to understand, but I found it helpful to have at least a basic understanding of it so I could sort out what I had experienced for the last 15+ years of my life. The harsh reality is that I was in love with a mentally ill woman who was never going to recover from it, and her reactions to life were unbalanced at best, and often totally insane.

I was one of her staunchest allies, because I loved her and she was my best friend. I was truly deceived in every way possible. When I would stumble across one of her deceptions, she would fly into a rage which often lasted for hours. By the end of it, I had no idea what I had initially tried to discuss with her. BPD Mission Accomplished.

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« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2013, 01:16:50 PM »

... .  it just occurred to me that my ex has a

I should have noted how she treated this woman before me and how deceptive she was to her too... she didn't even tell this girl (whom she was texting daily) that she had been dating me for 2 months?

This woman was obviously her back up! oh god... .  see what I mean about how DELAYED I am in seeing red flags? Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  

This should have been my flag.

I should have known that she was being deceptive to this other woman and cut her off brutally... why wouldn't she do this to me too?

It was right there in front of my eyes in the beginning... she was misleading this "friend" of hers apparently to avoid "drama"  and then cut her off in the same way she did me.

Diana, I know I've said it to you before, but seriously we could have dated the same girl. My ex also was in constant contact with ex flings during our relationship. The most recent one, that she insisted was just a friend, was sending her birthday/xmas cards (saying how amazing she bet my exgf looked in a bikini and she'd better stop writing because she was getting turned on) which my ex would put up in her flat for all to see. She also had a photo of them in a photo booth on her fridge. I asked her who it was when we first started dating, and she lied, and gave another name. My ex always insisted that they were only friends, in fact she was pretty annoying, they argued more than they got on and that she didn't find her attractive. They would constantly be in contact, text, email, Skype, cards/letters... .  yet my exgf didnt mention once that she had found the 'love of her life', she was living with someone, the girl she was crazy about and wanted to marry. I did bring this up to her one day. I lost it one day - I didn't know what I was dealing with at the time but the constant triangulation (read definition) with exes was exhausting and so so stressful - I asked her if she could see how it made me feel to be see her photos and cards/love letters everywhere. I would never do that to her with one of my exes, it would be totally inappropriate. I asked if they were just friends then how come she hasn't felt the need to mention that she's ecstatically happy that she's met the love of her life? Surely you tell a friend that if you've been together 6 months (at that point) and you're now living together? My ex got upset, cried - her way of always deflecting attention from the real topic - ripped down the photo, crumpled it up. It worked... .  she cried, threw a tantrum, I calmed her down, and the photo went back up on the fridge, where it remained.

I guess, with retrospect, I was getting completely miffed with the confusing mixed messages, and the fact that words and actions never matched. She had a framed photo of them stuffed in her wardrobe by her side of the bed the whole time we were together, and I never said a word. There were other exes that she would play off against me, it was literally exhausting. My exgf told one that I'd 'banned' her from meeting up with her. She accidentally showed me that text, which of course upset me because I'd never banned her from seeing anyone. I'd been the most ridiculously trusting gf, completely lacking in boundaries - silly me! This same ex was the one who was 'evil' and had cheated on her, yet on my ex's birthday she turned around and gave this 'evil' girl a belated birthday present in front of everyone.

Unbelievably, one of the main reasons she had for dumping me was because she hated it that I couldn't trust her!  Absurd really... .  this was pure projection on her part. She was so untrustworthy and she knew it, I never said a thing. She sabotaged our relationship at every turn. These are big red flags... .  asking ourselves why we ignored them is the key. They aren't trustworthy, honourable people. I attributed qualities to my ex that she never actually possessed. She has shown me who she is through her behaviour. She s broken and unhappy, as is your ex, completely shame-filled, and really they don't deserve loving and loyal people like us.

It's only with 7 months of hard work, grieving and introspection that I can see what I've escaped - and how lucky I am. To think I almost settled for that life. Think of this as a gift. You've got a chance to get to the core issues here if you try hard enough. Grow from this and become a better, healthier and happier person. Growth spurts are painful. But the person you will be on the other side will be much better for it.
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« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2013, 01:35:02 PM »

I have been consumed for the past year with thoughts about what I could have done differently.  The bottom line ... .  quite a bit... .  but not anything that would have resulted in the relationship being what I needed to be ... .  one based on honesty, openness and mutual respect.  

This is a great quote... .  this is the reality. Reminding myself of this has really helped me to detach. I kick myself for not trusting my instincts and getting out when I had thought it, rather than stick it out and wait to be dumped, but this is the reality. My exgf was sometimes amazing, but also sometimes awful, deceptive, selfish and hurtful... .  but 'sometimes amazing' isn't enough for me.

Honesty, intimacy, openness, respect and reciprocity are what we should be looking for. We're all worth that here. Let someone else do the caretaking.
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« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2013, 01:47:59 PM »

Charred ... your mention of "general in the marines"

By her demeanor alone my BPD ex would have made a great general... .  When she wasn't in her waif/hermit/witch archetype pattern. In her queen pattern she was impressive. In fact, when thinking about our future, which i thought would involve some humanitarian support to others, I was convinced that whiIe I would use my enginering skills, she - through the sheer strength of her words - would inspire people to pull themselves out of the rubble and stand up. She could rule a nation in this mode.

Her jealousy wasn't too apparent though in the rs. But after the breakup she accused me of having back-up lovers waiting in the wings. Pure projection.
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« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2013, 05:34:12 PM »

Diana - thanks so much for posting that article.  It is a great article.  Really explains a lot about my exNPD as well, who was a compulsive liar.  No one around him knew - they all told me what a great guy he was before we met.  I slowly figured out that he'd lied about certain important things MONTHS after we'd broken up.  I didn't realize he was a compulsive liar until much later.  When I told my friends who knew him, they didn't believe it.  My sister and her ex-husband both blew me off as being the wounded girlfriend.  Other people thought I was exaggerating.  I was not.

With my exBPD, I was a lot more conscious about what the truth was, and was able to articulate it close to whenever it was that the "story" was being told.  I'm the only exgf I know of that he won't talk to.  He was able to fool all the others, but not me, so I'm the one who got the full-on silent treatment. 
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