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Author Topic: Anyone confronted them with BPD?  (Read 3430 times)
almost789
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 04:53:50 PM »

Oh wow toliveistofly! I'm speechless... .  thats awesome.
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 09:40:11 PM »

i didn't realize my codependency until i met my ex

Bringing up the issue of co-dependency is very insightful regarding the comments made in this thread.

"Although co-dependents may feel they give an inordinate amount of responsibility, obligation, and worry for another and mistakenly feel like they are giving, in reality they are actually taking."

Below is an answer to a member who had asked how to dismantle their co-dependency that I find to be appropriate here:

Acknowledging that you have a problem is a great place to start.

Finding the courage to let go of the outcome when it comes to others would be next.

While this sounds mean and harsh, the truth is that "we" need to feel in control too, so we meddle and we step in where we don't belong. We do this to avoid facing our own demons. We feel good by helping others so that we don't feel bad. We are the opposite (shadow) of someone who suffers from BPD... .  

I would suggest focusing on how you are going to work on yourself in order to detach instead of trying to 'save' her.
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 12:09:20 AM »

Squid, she absolutely resented me for it.

For your relationship to work, radical acceptance is needed. If  you cannot accept her for who she is, it's manipulation on your part.  It took me a great while to figure this one out. I have  given you a shortcut... .  let it marinate.
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almost789
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 03:17:04 AM »

Well, we can see in toliveistofly's case here it worked out at least for his BPD. The relationship ended but she sought treatment. I think its important that not  everyone who wants to help is a co dependant and is doing it for selfish reasons. I have taken multitude of multitude co dependancy test and i just dont fit. If i did i would accept and get help. Condependancy is more of the enabler. A co dependent would hold back and walk on eggshells to keep the peace and be likeable. I told him because he needed to know and i knew it would probably be the end of us. Im ok with that. If it leads him to therapy sometime down the road as in toliveistofly's case great.
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 06:23:10 AM »

Condependancy is more of the enabler. A co dependent would hold back and walk on eggshells to keep the peace and be likeable.

There are many aspects of being co-dependent, as well as levels of extreme. 

The question here seems to boil down to is the relationship over or is it not?

If you are truly ending a r/s and trying to detach from it, the motivation behind wanting to tell someone they may have BPD is something to better understand.  I don't fully buy that is purely out of wanting to help and that there is not some co-dependent tendency involved.
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 07:59:16 AM »

Condependancy is more of the enabler. A co dependent would hold back and walk on eggshells to keep the peace and be likeable.

 I don't fully buy that is purely out of wanting to help and that there is not some co-dependent tendency involved.

Its ok, im not selling anything here just stating what MY motive is and I wont try to impose my motive on anyone else as has been done here with the statement 'we want it for us to be happy' Thats not my belief. Its perfectly ok for you to have you belief.  Anger to disagree is my stance. I just don t have the perception that me telling my BPD  he has BPD, makes me selfish and co dependant. He left. I also told him he was in denial and would never get better if he didnt accept some responsibility. Ideally, he will seek help like toliveistofly.

I also dont see any connection in the relationship being over or not over as to the disclosure of BPD. What does it matter if you tell them when in the relationship or out? Again, i guess if one has the impression of 'whats in it for me' that would matter.
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 08:37:52 AM »

This is a really important discussion because it's all about us.  I've struggled with this topic and the only reason I haven't thrown this illness in my ex's face is because doing so, in my opinion, would be selfish.

Whether the relationship is "over or not" is relevant to the motivation for telling someone they are mentally ill.  The statement "we want it for us to be happy" gets to the root of an issue that we need to own if our true motivation is manipulative and selfish in nature.  Only you can decide if this is what's happening.

To begin with, very few if any of us, are qualified to make a BPD diagnosis.  So, if this is true, why would we think our diagnosis is relevant?  Would you like to be informed by a relationship partner that you are an vulnerable narcissist?  Would this motivate you to seek help?  Probably not.  If we are ending a relationship, and throw out a "diagnosis" upon exiting, this says more about us than the person we are "diagnosing."  

To me this appears to be about control more than anything else, but I'm speaking from my own experience.  I had to accept my controlling issues stemmed from my co-dependency.  Addressing and owning my own issues made "diagnosing" my ex totally irrelevant.

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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2013, 08:52:37 AM »

Well for me it is more about that I was carrying a diagnosis in which I am certain he has. For many, they don't know what they have. I've read story after story of people who were misdiagnosed, given wrong therapy, and suffer almost their entire life not knowing whats wrong with them. Some of them commit suicide, because even when they go to the professionals they can't help them. Most therapists don't specialize in BPD and don't know a thing about the disorder, so obviously how could a therapist like that help? Many have reported being happy to know a name for it. I didn't like the feeling I got of just dumping him to fate, knowing I had information which could possibly help him. I'm glad I did it and I hope it helps him. He has come back since I told him he had it, but yet struggles to communicate, he struggles with denial, splitting, projection. I told him he needs to get a therapist who specializes in this disorder. I'm hoping he will.
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2013, 09:53:04 AM »

to clarify my original post: I confronted her because I believed in her, I believe in therapy, and I believe people are capable of change. I wanted her to seek the therapy IN the rs. To my regret, it took me leaving for her to actually seek therapy. So, some part of me if happy that she is getting the help she needs, and another part of me is deeply saddened/angry/resentful that she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't start the therapy when there was still a chance to save the rs.
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 10:20:27 AM »

Tailspin, you are right about motives being important. I can't even relate to your view that telling them is "throwing it in their face". Seems like a foreign concept to me. If that's the motivation, then yeah ...  sounds selfish to me.

But just as I would reach out to catch a loved one or a stranger who is falling, I don't ask myself "am I detaching or not?" Selfish? Ok. Gandhi, MLK Jr, the guy that helped me when I was stuck in the snow last month, and the local charity shelter are selfish too because ultimately they are driven by an inner need that they try to satisfy. One could use the word "selfish" in that way and be technically correct. But it's not the common English application of the word "selfish". I'm not sure why people find it useful to use the word in this way. It almost seems a little like Orwellian doublespeak to say that the only way to not be selfish is to focus on yourself.

Lots of reasons for not telling them. They should be considered carefully. But the idea that it's selfish to do so when the intent is not malicious... .  I don't buy it.
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« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 10:33:26 AM »

I get both sides though in my case I see it more like Lifegoeson.

Maybe everyone is speaking from their own experience which is what I was curious about. I believe every case is unique but you can always generalize. There's always exceptions to the rules. I read a Carl Jung book as he explained his experience with a patient who suffered an illness he knew was incurable. He still stuck with him, gave him trust over the long term (10 years) and the patient was eventually cured. He stressed that psychology is an evolving study as he learnt and that every case is unique.

Toliveistofly said he believed in her amongst other things. If he didn't and everyone bailed on her she may never have gotten therapy, and this would just secure her idea of everyone leaving her, adding to her abandonment fears. Selfish, you can argue, is treating them as someone you care about, a friend, that you know you have info that may benefit them and you just withhold it and walk away. I know there are responsibilities I have to my friends and that is to be honest and express a concern (nicely) if I believe its to everyone's benefit. Walking away from them can be seen as selfish. I know if someone told me I am NPD, I would welcome the claim and investigate. It's an opportunity to grow. I am open to all kinds of criticism. Heck it excites me. It means I can grow by finding my shortcomings that I was blind to. I would thank the friends that express this to me.

Also, I believe, in this case, that every relationship is unique to the individuals. It could be a NPD/BPD relationship, co-dependant/BPD or forget the labels, simply a dysfunctional one. Every person speaks from their own experience and great info is passed on. Ultimately you need to discover what works for you and your partner/friend. If you paint things so black and white with no exceptions then maybe you are being stubborn and aren't willing to budge from your conceptions of your own experience.

There's been a recent development in neuroscience that for the first time ever they were able to scan a BPD's brain to know exactly which areas are active. Now they've identified it which will help in treatment through psychotherapy and/or medicine. Heck, if you simply stick around and support them maybe this person just needed an anchor in life. And that's exactly what Jung's patient needed. Someone who will always stay and never leave.
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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 10:44:25 AM »

Lots of reasons for not telling them. They should be considered carefully. But the idea that it's selfish to do so when the intent is not malicious... .  I don't buy it.

Right on, Waitaminute. You can argue everyone is selfish. Let's just get over that. What we're trying to get at here is to listen to people's experience on what resulted from us telling them they have BPD. Great to question motives but to what end are we gonna skew and twist our motives until we talk ourselves into thinking "selfish is bad and I am selfish". I am neither and both. What matters is events and experiences.
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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 10:47:35 AM »

There's been a recent development in neuroscience that for the first time ever they were able to scan a BPD's brain to know exactly which areas are active. Now they've identified it which will help in treatment through psychotherapy and/or medicine. Heck, if you simply stick around and support them maybe this person just needed an anchor in life. And that's exactly what Jung's patient needed. Someone who will always stay and never leave.

thats whats so hurtful and scary makes me feel that i wasnt good enough to be her anchor that some man can come and reap all the benefits of my hard work trying to help her and to help her find healing. that they can hurt and leave and eventually one person will be there for them no matter what and the people who were there for them get left behind
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« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 10:54:47 AM »

thats whats so hurtful and scary makes me feel that i wasnt good enough to be her anchor that some man can come and reap all the benefits of my hard work trying to help her and to help her find healing. that they can hurt and leave and eventually one person will be there for them no matter what and the people who were there for them get left behind

In this case I would argue that it's about them healing first whether they will be with you or someone else. If it will hurt that much and cause you suffering then maybe it's not best to stick around.
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« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 10:58:07 AM »

freshlysane: I know this fear you write about. But look around on this board... .  how many times have you seen that story? I have been reading this board for about a year. I have heard MANY people express the fear that the next guy/girl is going to get the happy ending. But I have never seen anyone write that story? Why? Probably because it is extremely rare.

In my case, my BPDex is in therapy. So perhaps I will be the first to write that sad story where the next guy does not have to go through what I went through. But therapy is a long and hard road and there are many obstacles for her to overcome. I believe in her and I hope she makes it. And I hope that she finds peace in her life. Not gonna lie: I also hold on to some hope that I may be part of her life when she finds peace. But who knows: either of us could fall in love with someone else in the interim and I have to be open to that as the more likely possibility.
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« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »

If psychiatrists - trained professionals in this area - are saying it is not advisable for you or me to tell the pwBPD they have BPD and you do so anyway - how are you not being selfish?

If not selfish, is it arrogance?  Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go agaist the professionals?

This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.

The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

If you go against professionals and do it anyway it is your choice - just know your motivation is all.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2013, 11:27:24 AM »

Good points Waitaminute and NylonSquid,

I too did not relate at all that the motivation  would be to "throw it in their face" or the other reason to feel "superior?" That definitely seems selfish and saddistic to me. That wasn't my motivation. If I wanted to "throw it in his face" like that I'd had done it in one of my angry moments. For me it was simply a last resort when there was nothing else I could do. Like throwing a life vest. Now I hope he does something with it.

But, agree. The point is not the motivation behind it. The point and topic of this thread is has anyone ever done it and how did it work out? We all know the professionals say not to. Regardless, people have and do do it. Sometimes the outcome is good, like in toliveistofly's case. I found it sad that no one acknowledged the great accomplishment of toliveistofly's BPD seeking treatment. But instead focused on what they believed was our motive in doing it. Wouldn't the ultimate goal be for all BPD's to seek treatment and get help? And why would we not be happy about that?  I'm leaving this thread because I am not going to sit here and argue whether it is selfish our not. I stated my believe. You may have yours. Congrats to toliveistofly!
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« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2013, 11:42:29 AM »

Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go against the professionals? This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

Peace,

SB

I know that I came to this site IGNORANT but not out of selfishness or arrogance "to think" that my loved one is mentally ill... .  I CERTAINLY HAD TO Face the Facts to equate his behavior with BPD... .  I did not want that. In wanting to "help" US, I told him that he and other people have a different way of processing life and that did not affect how much I loved him but that WE needed help to talk about it. He eventually DENIED that he had ANY problem and painted me blacker and "crazy". I am on the "Leaving" board. If he is not able to FACE THE FACTS then I am not going to be able to sit around and watch him continue to ruin his life AND mine in the process.

For me it was simply a last resort when there was nothing else I could do. Like throwing a life vest. Now I hope he does something with it. The point is not the motivation behind it. The point and topic of this thread is has anyone ever done it and how did it work out?

I figured that we had lost nearly EVERYTHING else in our relationship; I would at least "go out" with an attempt. Little did I know that DENIAL is a big part of this mental illness... .  no matter how intelligent they are.  

Excerpt
We all know the professionals say not to.

I actually did NOT know this before I mentioned it to him... .  I was truly blindsided by the insidious nature of this ILLNESS.

Excerpt
Wouldn't the ultimate goal be for all BPD's to seek treatment and get help?

It would only make sense to me but then I am NOT BPD... .  

Excerpt
I'm leaving this thread because I am not going to sit here and argue whether it is selfish our not

. You know, I understand what you are saying... .  an ABUSER will say to us "YOU are being selfish" and with BPD we have abuse AND Mental Illness... .  a double whammy... .  if you ask me, the people who LOVE and want to see their pwBPD happy are the most LOVING, WONDERFUL AND SENSITIVE PEOPLE ever.  ((SummerT321))

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« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2013, 12:08:27 PM »

If psychiatrists - trained professionals in this area - are saying it is not advisable for you or me to tell the pwBPD they have BPD and you do so anyway - how are you not being selfish?

If not selfish, is it arrogance?  Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go agaist the professionals?

This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.

The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

If you go against professionals and do it anyway it is your choice - just know your motivation is all.

Peace,

SB

We can debate lots on here. I hear you, SB. Another fact is psychiatrist have prescribed medication that doesn't even work and in some cases cost people lives. FACT. My psychiatrist will tell you this. What I've learnt is, never stop asking. I question myself and others as well. It's great to gain knowledge.

This thread DOES have tons of useful information from people and I love it. It helps me gain knowledge and understanding. That's why I started this thread. I also love hearing all sides of things. There's an old saying that says "Listen to a person of experience than a doctor". It's not an English saying Smiling (click to insert in post)  The point is there is lots to learn from people on here as much as, if not more so, than a professional. In my professional environment, I'd say most people can't see the bigger picture. Professionals can be stuck in old academic ideas. Very few things are absolute so I stay open. It's also what drives me to grow knowing that things are impermanent and in constant change.

All that said, I'm not inclined to tell her she has BPD... but I'm open to it Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2013, 12:29:53 PM »

I figured that we had lost nearly EVERYTHING else in our relationship; I would at least "go out" with an attempt. Little did I know that DENIAL is a big part of this mental illness... .  no matter how intelligent they are.  :'(

To me, this is the key point in all of this.  We all "go out" with something:  Be it love, hate, anger, silence, or anything else.

None of them "work", and they all generally seem to result in us being painted black, our love dismissed, and a hundred other terrible things.  In this context, I guess I don't see the value of going out with anything other than honesty... ?

Will it hurt them?  Probably.

Will it hurt you?  Probably.

Will it go the way you want?  Almost definitely not.

Is it selfish?  I don't know... .  maybe a little.

But really, what alternative strategy wouldn't produce the exact same answers to the above four questions?


I feel like I could have written my ex a letter 1000 pages long.  And it could have been love, or sympathy, or just a thousand pages explaining to her all the ways she was the most hurtful and awful person I'd ever come to know.

Or it could have been all three.

In the end, though, those 1000 pages don't really matter.  Because it's all summed up pretty thoroughly if I just say "I love you with all of my heart, but I really believe you have a condition called Borderline Personality Disorder."

This is perhaps THE WORST thing you could ever say to someone with BPD, but I said it anyway.  She responded as negatively and violently as one would imagine, but I still don't regret it.

I could have gone out with love, hate, sympathy, or anger.  I chose all of the above:  I chose honesty.

She hates me more than ever... .  but I don't regret it.  I told her what I believe, and the rest is up to her.  Perhaps someday in the future she will hit another low point, and the prospect of considering the validity of the letters "BPD" may at least provide a life raft as an alternative to suicide or whatever else.  That thought brings me just a small fragment of peace in a situation in which peace has been very hard to find.

It almost certainly won't bring the reaction you might be hoping for, but I still am inclined to consider it a viable option in terms of your own search for closure.
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« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 12:30:58 PM »

Let me take a moment to come at this from the main purpuse of this board - this board is the leaving board which focuses on detaching from a BPD relationship.

That said, I do agree there are variations that can work, HOWEVER, most of the time it is with the support of a stayer who is just as committed to a good outcome.  Not a leaver that is going to "drop a bomb" and leave.

If you want to be in a friendship with your pwBPD and be a support to them, then the leaving board is not your avenue - the staying board is where you learn the tools.  Stayers are not only partners, they are friends too.

pwBPD can recover and having the support of loved ones really does help in that recovery.  This is the leaving board - a place to help you detach and focus on you.

I didn't know not to tell either and I did in a round-about way.  We were in MC, she had a T & P - so there was support everywhere - ultimately, only a pwBPD can determine what path they want to take.

As a leaver, trying to detach - how does telling her help you detach?
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« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 12:44:50 PM »

Agreed SB.

I wasn't sure where to post this topic, I ultimately put it here. Sorry if it's in the wrong section. I feel personally like I'm romantically detached (happily) but she pops in my mind and I always hope she's okay. Matter of fact I know she's lining up a replacement and if I can help her with that relationship then I would. The guy seems nice and I've met him. I hope he doesn't get so hurt. I love her for who she is but I love me as well. I love to give myself happiness and if I can't with her then I'm on my own. I do however would like to support her. As a friend... or whatever it is. I'm happy realizing I have an opportunity to enjoy life and it's possibilities. It's unfortunate I can't feel that with her. Perhaps I thought the Leaving board had more experience in this than the others.
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« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 12:47:54 PM »

If you are leaving. Your not undecided. Your  not staying. Your leaving and you are also considering telling them about BPD. Would that qualify for the leaving board? Or is it the assumption that if you tell you have to be either staying or undecided?
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« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2013, 12:52:07 PM »

Agreed SB.

I wasn't sure where to post this topic, I ultimately put it here. Sorry if it's in the wrong section. I feel personally like I'm romantically detached (happily) but she pops in my mind and I always hope she's okay. Matter of fact I know she's lining up a replacement and if I can help her with that relationship then I would. The guy seems nice and I've met him. I hope he doesn't get so hurt. I love her for who she is but I love me as well. I love to give myself happiness and if I can't with her then I'm on my own. I do however would like to support her. As a friend... or whatever it is. I'm happy realizing I have an opportunity to enjoy life and it's possibilities. It's unfortunate I can't feel that with her. Perhaps I thought the Leaving board had more experience in this than the others.

By no means do you need to apologize - this has been a good thread.  Senior members try  to keep the boards focused on the boards goal is all.  It was confusing that you seem detached, yet may want to get involved in what could be a serious situation.

My guess would be personal inventory for these kinds of questions within yourself.  Regarding best approaches for communication with pwBPD, the stayers are really the experts... .  honestly, they practice the tools, boundaries, radical acceptane in a way that we leavers really don't have to on a daily basis.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2013, 12:56:07 PM »

There's been a recent development in neuroscience that for the first time ever they were able to scan a BPD's brain to know exactly which areas are active. Now they've identified it which will help in treatment through psychotherapy and/or medicine. Heck, if you simply stick around and support them maybe this person just needed an anchor in life. And that's exactly what Jung's patient needed. Someone who will always stay and never leave.

Just as an FYI... .  

MRIs have been used to detect brain abnormalities in BPD patients since 1998. I am not aware of any new treatment techniques arising from this research.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9858082

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« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2013, 01:02:59 PM »

Detaching... .  

Many people won't detach until they have done everything and given everything they humanly could to try to help the life of the person they loved.

Some have given all material things, all emotional support, all physical and mental support that they have to help the BPD. If I leave without doing that, detachment is incomplete because there will always be this lingering thought "what if... .  " It is not necessarily a "what if... .  then we could be together" thought. In many cases, the end of the rs is as clear as a bell. In those cases, it is a selfless "what if... .  then maybe she/he could have found some happiness". In giving all... .  one might feel the need to give this last piece of advice, all PhD psychologists gasping as they might. It is very much an issue of detaching.

For me, in this mode of "all I can give", I told her to consider getting help for her BPD when she once said goodbye (one of many times). When she came back a few weeks later, she simply said "btw, it's just a bad case of pms, not BPD". I never brought it up again. When I finally detached in the one and only time I initiated a goodbye, I didn't mention it. But it is there for her to use if she is so inclined... .  maybe there is a 1 in 1000  chance it will help. And as a byproduct of offering my advice, I can detach knowing that I could offer nothing more.
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« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2013, 01:06:16 PM »

just know your motivation is all.

There is a lot to this, seeing as the subject line here uses the word 'confronted'. Where are you coming from (any of us) when you 'confront' someone, especially when it concerns them possibly having a mental illness, and that they could seek help for it?

I first heard of BPD when my exgf accused me of having it. I was already growing more aware of her patterns of projections, but had barely heard of PD's before and did some online research. It was amazing (and sad, distressing, frustrating... .  ) how well she was the one who fit the criterea. It gave me a lot to think about. The very next appointment I had with my T at the time, while talking about what had been going on in the realtionship since our last session, he asked me if I'd ever heard of BPD. I told him my gf had just recently said I was someone who had it, but when I read about it it seemed to fit her way more than it did myself. He agreed and said that was why he brought it up. Not that he could diagnose her, since she wasn't his patient and they had never even met (although the sessions were originally set up, at her request, as couples therapy, which she then refused to ever go to), but he said from what I had been describing it made him lean in that direction as far as what I was dealing with with her.

I didn't run right home and tell her 'You have BPD, not me', but it was in my mind, and I was more aware than ever of what was going on as far as her actions and where they were coming from. I learned about validating, walking away from conflicts, etc., Things would be ok for awhile and then she'd leave again. We recycled many times, and towards the end, when she was again accusing me of being the one with a PD, I did mention that my T had said that in no way was I someone who did but she seemed likely to herself. Which wasn't great of me to say, even though I was offering her support at the time. Saying therapy was a beneficial tool and would help her no matter what she had going on, that it's good to go and talk with someone like that sometimes, it's healing. I feel my motivations were good, offering to continue standing by her, but it came out during one of her more 'angry' times and was not taken well. She has not to my knowledge gone to see a therapist of any kind. I didn't bring it up again because, even though I loved her and planned to spend my life with her, it was her choice to make to help heal herself, and seek others who could help her with that.

Looking back, I see that mostly I was being kind, and 'helpful', with her when I brought it up, but a small part of it was to just toss it back to her, not accepting her projections as much and standing up for myself more. Either way, it didn't help us stay together. She saw that I was acknowledging the patterns more and more, and wanting real change to occur in positive directions. Didn't feel like a 'confrontation' to me (my side of things), but she reacted that way (showing PD traits), and it helped push us farther apart.

I think if you're staying, and committed to that, bringing up a subject like this is appropriate if handled well enough. If you're detaching/already out of the relationship? Best to keep the focus on yourself, wish the other person well, and leave it be.



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« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2013, 01:08:53 PM »

I have not gone through the bulk of this thread so if this information has already been stated, forgive me.

My understanding of people with BPD (pwBPD), is that they lack tools to moderate/temper their emotions.  In a sense, they are developmentally arrested when it comes to handling their emotions.  Also, they exhibit "splitting" behavior which is "black & white" thinking.  So they see people either as "all good" or "all bad" and can alternate between that perspective, the main point being that they do not see shades of gray (metaphorically speaking).  And this "splitting" behavior applies to themselves, and this is why they often cannot tolerate being wrong; because to be wrong is to be "all wrong" and painting him/herself "black."

So I would argue that until they take some steps towards recovery, they do not have the emotional tools to handle the information that they are mentally disordered.  Because for them to consider that they are mentally disorder means that they run the risk of seeing themselves as completely flawed and worthless.

I would not venture to try to push this idea upon them unless I (if I were their therapist... .  and I am not even of this profession) felt that they had developed sufficient tools to begin making this consideration.  Some people get to this point.  But I imagine it is not done without a lot of effort on their part and on the part of their support.

Outside of the context of this kind of recovery and support, just to tell them point blank would be "dropping a bomb" on them.

Best wishes, Schwing
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« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2013, 01:44:38 PM »

In my case I didn't drop any bomb. I had been talking to him for months. Hinting, telling him books to get, all kinds of stuff, little by little. He kept coming back to me. I even told him I would help him find a therapist if he wanted me to. He kept coming back. I told him I was doing all kinds of research and he said. "Im glad" So, there is no way when I actually came out and told him point blank BPD it was like a bomb.  Obviously in toliveistofly's case... .  it was not a "bomb" and sent her right where she needed to be, in DBT therapy. Nothing is black and white. Not even this topic because each and every persons situation is different. And let me also clarify, I am on the leaving board because, I am detaching from a man who is in denial. I have told him if he wants help he knows where to find me and I will help him with anything he needs. So, I'm not abandoning him. I'm detaching. If he comes back, I will help him and probably switch back over to staying.
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« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2013, 01:52:39 PM »

I mentioned every relationship being a unique case. Though my exuBPDgf splits, I can see her struggling and trying to understand. She literally says "I'm trying to forgive you and I think about it lots but I just can't seem to understand. Sometimes I feel like I can forgive you but when I recall some events I change my mind and get hurt again".  It's hard for her to let go and she tells me how badly she wants to be with me. I question the severity and seeing how she's able to articulate the struggle in her head. She says how things like this happen when she is stressed. I mean, she has some awareness of herself and she isn't suicidal and self harming (in a dangerous way). This is why I've questioned pointing a few things out about her without being angry or blaming but supportive.
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