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Author Topic: Anyone confronted them with BPD?  (Read 3413 times)
nylonsquid
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« on: January 29, 2013, 12:34:52 PM »

Wondering if anyone has confronted their partner with the BPD symptoms and suggest they may have it. I'd like to know what the repercussions or reaction is.

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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 12:39:14 PM »

My exBPDgf... reminded her... she had told me that when she was in grad school she went in for counseling and the idiot/moron... (insert bad words) T, had diagnosed her BPD. I reminded her... she told me no, she had seen another one and was told she was just "unstable."  Her picture should be in the encyclopedia next to BPD... .  no question of it. I would say reaction was mostly hostile and denial.

Good luck ... .  if you tell them I am not sure what it accomplishes... nothing good as far as I can tell. She blames all problems on other people.
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 12:47:04 PM »

Wondering if anyone has confronted their partner with the BPD symptoms and suggest they may have it. I'd like to know what the repercussions or reaction is.

look at it this way, if your partner told you "I think you have a severe mental illness" - how would you respond?

My ex and I had the conversation, had therapists, MC - the whole deal - ultimately, does it really matter? 

There is a point that anyone - (BPD or non) - looks in the mirror and realizes, I cannot control anyone but myself... .  what am I going to do to change.

Until this decision is made by oneself - change is not likely.

Telling a pwBPD - "you have BPD" is not going to change anything other than lose credibility and trust.

What do you hope to gain by telling her?
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 12:50:17 PM »

Wondering if anyone has confronted their partner with the BPD symptoms and suggest they may have it. I'd like to know what the repercussions or reaction is.

look at it this way, if your partner told you "I think you have a severe mental illness" - how would you respond?

My ex and I had the conversation, had therapists, MC - the whole deal - ultimately, does it really matter? 

There is a point that anyone - (BPD or non) - looks in the mirror and realizes, I cannot control anyone but myself... .  what am I going to do to change.

Until this decision is made by oneself - change is not likely.

Telling a pwBPD - "you have BPD" is not going to change anything other than lose credibility and trust.

What do you hope to gain by telling her?

she was diagnosed with ptsd but she lies she told me she is a pathological lier so she was never real with the therapist i told her she needs to just go see someone she was mad and attacked me verbally
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 12:56:23 PM »

Mine originally told me that she had thought she was at some point. Then, during the first breakup, she said that I was, which brought me here. As things piralled more and more into crazypants land: population me, I did point out the similarities our interactions were having with BPD involved relationships in an effort for her to understand what was hurting me and why. This of course was a mistake and I never mentioned it again, but I assure you was constantly reminded how I fit the criteria. I brought this mistake I made up to my therapist and asked her, "What if she's right? What if my perception is so skewed that I just can't see it?"

She responded, "I think I would have picked up on that and you've always been so mindful and open to solutions, I would not have a problem telling you and getting to work on it."

The point is, that its not a good idea. It gets mentioned a lot on here and I have not read one thread where it worked out well. Furthermore, they are our exes, so what is the real motivation of telling them? Is it REALLY to help them, because I dont think that is our place any more. I think that in a lot of cases it is just a way for us to hope that it will soothe ourselves in some matter. That is a selfish motivation if it applies and will not only be nonproductive for them, but for us as well.

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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 12:56:40 PM »

i guess people are hoping there BPD will be like aha now that i now ill take the time to change ... .  there has to be something major that shakes them for them to say i want to change
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 12:57:35 PM »

I think deep down inside my exBPDbf knows.  He recycled his ex wife a few times and would describe HER behavior to me.  Never having had experience with anything he was describing I did the research for him and what he described was 100% BPD.  I brought my findings to his attention and we discussed BPD in length.  The interesting thing was that I continued to learn about it and he didn't really want to.  That should have been a clue I guess.  I believed more of what he said back them and witnessed very immature behavior by her, but now I have to wonder ... .  they were married for 27 years ... .  was she really BPD also? or was he projecting on her, as he probably did their entire marriage.  I know if I mentioned it to him he would say I was crazy and accused EVERYONE of being BPD, but I also think that deep down inside he knows.  I occasionally think of telling him I know, as I'm sure that would end any chance of him trying to recycle me in the future.
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 01:08:40 PM »

keep in mind the nature of the disorder... .  

maladaptive coping methods (gaslighting, projection, drugs, etc) to avoid extreme pain usually associated with abandonment.  so, using this logic - if  you accuse your pwBPD of having a severe mental illness - isn't that pressing hard on the abandonment button?

as such, wouldn't it actually be logical to see a maladaptive coping method - ie projection "no, you are the borderline".

Tami Green on youtube who is recovered  BPD has a talk on how her T helped her process the disorder.  She had all 9 criteria at the time, yet she would not/could not see it - her brain literally didn't register it.  The T had to go about it by asking "what would it look like in every day life with XYZ criteria" and only after talking it through of what it would look like could she wrap her head around it.

Again, the only change we can contol is ourselves - telling someone they are mentally ill may seem like a good idea, but deep down it is really selfish on our part.  We want them to change so we can be happy... .  

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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 01:12:31 PM »

Wondering if anyone has confronted their partner with the BPD symptoms and suggest they may have it. I'd like to know what the repercussions or reaction is.

look at it this way, if your partner told you "I think you have a severe mental illness" - how would you respond?

Excerpt
I'd think it's quite fascinating and I'd be excited to find out the truth Smiling (click to insert in post)

My ex and I had the conversation, had therapists, MC - the whole deal - ultimately, does it really matter? 

There is a point that anyone - (BPD or non) - looks in the mirror and realizes, I cannot control anyone but myself... .  what am I going to do to change.

Until this decision is made by oneself - change is not likely.

Excerpt
I look forward to moving on. I do miss me taking care of her and the honeymoon stage but I also know that I'm unhappy with her. I wish her the best but I also love her. Not 'in love'. I just sit here watching her like a headless chicken get into the next relationship to cover her wounds. I sometimes see she has enough awareness that maybe I could squeeze the idea in and help her. Maybe help her in her next relationship. I'm unsure. Don't have a plan really.

Telling a pwBPD - "you have BPD" is not going to change anything other than lose credibility and trust.

Excerpt
Perhaps suggesting i.e. telling her what her pattern is from a bird's eye view. Telling her what goes on in her head and what actions she is taking. Not blaming, but almost blaming things on stress, because after all this is really what triggers them a lot of times.

What do you hope to gain by telling her?

Excerpt
Great question! I'm trying to find out my true incentives but it seems like it's just help. I feel sorry for her just running around like that in pain. If anyone understands her then I do. I can't imagine anyone learning so much and dedicating time to understand her as much as I have. If I can at least support her and nudge her in a direction that is helpful to her. I think that's my motivation. I still dread being with  her. Though I admit, I am still attracted to her. We have a perfect "love to be needed and need to be loved" dynamic. It's intoxicating.


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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 01:15:51 PM »

An ex said to me "Newton, I really think you should see a therapist, I hate to see you suffering like this".  I loved and trusted her, I knew she had said it from a caring place and I found a great T. I was so relieved to find out I had been suffering from long term severe depression as a reult of that conversation  Smiling (click to insert in post)

PwBPD, however, are in a constant state of denial. It keeps them "safe" from the reality. If we suggest they need help it will be interpreted as telling them they are broken, wrong, and useless.

I shared my thoughts about possible BPD with one of my exs, it was like pouring gasoline on a fire.  I havent read one story here where this was well recieved, it seems they perceive it as another attack.
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 01:25:21 PM »

so, using this logic - if  you accuse your pwBPD of having a severe mental illness - isn't that pressing hard on the abandonment button?

Excerpt
I don't see how it is. Is it like saying "you're not good enough/flawed and since I know you're not good enough I'm leaving you"?

Tami Green on youtube who is recovered  BPD has a talk on how her T helped her process the disorder.  She had all 9 criteria at the time, yet she would not/could not see it - her brain literally didn't register it.  The T had to go about it by asking "what would it look like in every day life with XYZ criteria" and only after talking it through of what it would look like could she wrap her head around it.

Excerpt
Interesting. I'll look that up.

Again, the only change we can contol is ourselves -
Excerpt
Right!

telling someone they are mentally ill may seem like a good idea, but deep down it is really selfish on our part.  We want them to change so we can be happy... .  
Excerpt
Really? I mean, I feel just fine. She is in constant pain and I want to support her. I'd like her to be happy. I've said this to her many times. "I want to be happy, I want you to be happy and if we can be happy together then that's what I'd like". Obviously this can be taken as abandonment. Haha. Anything is. Like when I say "the wall is white" she'd think it's too white in her room, I don't like it and will leave her if she doesn't change the color. :s


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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 01:30:45 PM »



This is who she is and you are trying to change her - your motive is because YOU want her to be happy... .  do you not see how this is a bit selfish on your part?

Again, we all want people we love to be happy - but you are posting on a leaving board... .  do you want to be on this board or are you undecided?

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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 01:30:51 PM »

PwBPD, however, are in a constant state of denial. It keeps them "safe" from the reality. If we suggest they need help it will be interpreted as telling them they are broken, wrong, and useless.

I shared my thoughts about possible BPD with one of my exs, it was like pouring gasoline on a fire.  I havent read one story here where this was well recieved, it seems they perceive it as another attack.

I got my exBPDgf on the second recycle that she should see a psychiatrist. She did! Under the impression that she's suffering from the loss of her father.

I've suggested she be patient because her actions happen under stress. I told her that it will be okay, she just needed patience. But I also told her what goes on in her head and the patterns she repeats. I wonder if she felt it was an attack...
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 01:33:00 PM »

PwBPD, however, are in a constant state of denial. It keeps them "safe" from the reality. If we suggest they need help it will be interpreted as telling them they are broken, wrong, and useless.

I shared my thoughts about possible BPD with one of my exs, it was like pouring gasoline on a fire.  I havent read one story here where this was well recieved, it seems they perceive it as another attack.

I got my exBPDgf on the second recycle that she should see a psychiatrist. She did! Under the impression that she's suffering from the loss of her father.

I've suggested she be patient because her actions happen under stress. I told her that it will be okay, she just needed patience. But I also told her what goes on in her head and the patterns she repeats. I wonder if she felt it was an attack...

what happens when you ask a 2 year old to be patient?

pwBPD are emotional 2 year olds when triggered

I have to ask - what are you doing, if she is seeing a T and working on her stuff... .  exactly what are you doing to make the situation better?  How are you doing with radical acceptance, how are your DEARMAN and SET workshops going?

This is the leaving board, is this where you want to be?
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 01:37:49 PM »

This is who she is and you are trying to change her - your motive is because YOU want her to be happy... .  do you not see how this is a bit selfish on your part?

Excerpt
I get it. It's a bit twisted. I can look at it like that for sure. How is this a better way to see things than offering help. If the poster above hadn't had someone suggest he seek help how would he have? If I hadn't suggested my ex see a therapist how could she have gotten better? Isn't love compassion and support? There's a trick here isn't there? If I let her go completely then she may have less of a chance to help herself. I can only try to be helpful when I feel that the person is crying for it.

Again, we all want people we love to be happy - but you are posting on a leaving board... .  do you want to be on this board or are you undecided?

Excerpt
Yea, I was wondering about just posting this on the Undecided because of the topic. I feel I'm done with the relationship. But I still care. Is that a problem with me? Is this fog? Guilt? Rescuer syndrome? Should people just quit on the people they care about when things don't work? Not sure.


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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 01:42:08 PM »

I told mine. He didnt like it much. No. He ran off for a while. But he came back and still wanted to be friends. He know something, but denies too.

Would also like to say that the reason i want him to get help is not so i can be happy... .  how long would that take?    The reason for me is because i care about him as a human being, why would i not want him to get help?
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 01:47:21 PM »

  The reason for me is because i care about him as a human being, why would i not want him to get help?

This is a fair statement.

However, the friend dynamic is different than a romantic dynamic.

Ultimately, this is about boundaries - what are yours and why.  Telling someone out of kindness and letting go is your choice.  Again, the experts who study BPD suggest not telling them, let a professional do it - this is their expertise.

The nature of the disorder, an unprofessional telling them is harmful - although you think you are being nice or kind or caring - ultimately, the professionals suggest this is not the best way to handle.

Up to you whether to use the information or not.

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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 01:47:47 PM »

Hi Squid,

I was tempted to tell my ex he was crazy and then I realized it wasn't for his edification; it was so that I could feel superior to him.  I sat and thought about it and realized I knew something was wrong with him for a long time and part of the reason I stayed with him was because it made me feel better about myself to be with someone who was crazy.  What did that say about me?  I didn't stay to help him.  I stayed to avoid my own issues.

Often we feel compelled to point out the flaws in others because it's easier than acknowledging the flaws in ourselves.

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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2013, 01:48:48 PM »

what happens when you ask a 2 year old to be patient?

pwBPD are emotional 2 year olds when triggered

I have to ask - what are you doing, if she is seeing a T and working on her stuff... .  exactly what are you doing to make the situation better?

Excerpt
Staying away now though she comes back crying and I end up soothing her pain. I know, it's a cycle. I try not to ignore her but I'm simply not engaging her.

 How are you doing with radical acceptance, how are your DEARMAN and SET workshops going?

Excerpt
Not sure. I think I have pretty good acceptance. I feel like I grieved enough that when we were together the second time I understood the situation. It was a relief to not be in a relationship with her. I'm working on spending most of my time enjoying my life (which I am) and not have a need to be on these boards. These boards I use whenever I have a thought, question or being objective. And thanks for asking these questions of me, SB Smiling (click to insert in post)  I never stop asking myself so much and that can be a problem that I have. I'm trying to live outwardly more than in my head.

This is the leaving board, is this where you want to be?

Excerpt
I've left the romantic relationship but I would like to be a supporter when possible. I would say, yes! I'm quite content with that too.


Thanks for questioning me.

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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 01:52:07 PM »

Would also like to say that the reason i want him to get help is not so i can be happy... .  how long would that take?    The reason for me is because i care about him as a human being, why would i not want him to get help?

My feelings exactly, LGO! Thanks for summarizing my feelings Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2013, 01:56:23 PM »

Thanks for the replies! I get the idea. Basically, it does more harm even attempting to show them a reality that is not theirs. Ah well. I'll give her support the way SHE needs not what I need. Obviously without compromising my comfort and happiness.
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2013, 02:01:37 PM »

to summarize (let me know if I am missing something)

1. you want to be on leaving & want to detach

2. you want your ex to know she has BPD traits

I strongly suggest you read article 9 - 10 false beliefs that keep us stuck... .  

Regarding telling your ex YOU THINK she has BPD traits, perhaps just let go and let her T deal with her.  She has a T, right?  Let her deal with her recovery and you get on the road to dealing with yours.  This was the best advice a senior advisor gave me when I first got here... .  you are on the leaving board, she has a T, it's time for you to focus on you.
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« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2013, 02:01:58 PM »

When we were together i pleaded with my ex to go get help she attacked me ... now we are not together i want to help her but i cant not my place and im not going to sit around and watch if she is going to spiral back into her illness or make good strides in life i want to heal from my damage. she left me she decided i was a threat. and im learning to be ok with that. im going to be fine and that's her lost i win my sanity back i love her and i pray to god he helps her but thats between them not me. Heal you we are not there care takers anymore they made that decision you got your life live it
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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2013, 02:10:20 PM »

Your right the professional dont recommend it. I did it anyway. Hes not suicidal, hes high fuctioning, so i made a judgement call. He came back so apparently it didnt kill him. He already knows he has something. Some are actually relieved when they find out a name for it. I would recommend a therapist should do it though, but he wont go to one!
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2013, 02:13:12 PM »

1. you want to be on leaving & want to detach

Excerpt
yes; I'm very close to detaching. (Romantically I think I have) I'm just indifferent to what she does. It doesn't effect me.

2. you want your ex to know she has BPD traits

Excerpt
No, I was just wondering if it helps putting things in perspective for them. She's aware enough that stress triggers irrationalities. I reminded her of what she had said and told her to be patient and everything will be okay. She used to ask me to tell her this.

I strongly suggest you read article 9 - 10 false beliefs that keep us stuck... .  

Regarding telling your ex YOU THINK she has BPD traits,

Excerpt
Again, no. I was wondering other people's experience and whether anyone found it helpful informing them to any capacity. I don't want to point out she has an illness or traits of it but merely point out her actions when certain triggers arise. I'm merely reminding her as she knows this already.

perhaps just let go and let her T deal with her.  She has a T, right?  Let her deal with her recovery and you get on the road to dealing with yours.  This was the best advice a senior advisor gave me when I first got here... .  you are on the leaving board, she has a T, it's time for you to focus on you.

Right. I believe I'm doing fine unless it's denial Smiling (click to insert in post)  I guess I wouldn't be here if Im completely fine Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2013, 02:50:25 PM »

Would also like to say that the reason i want him to get help is not so i can be happy... .  how long would that take?    The reason for me is because i care about him as a human being, why would i not want him to get help?

My feelings exactly, LGO! Thanks for summarizing my feelings Smiling (click to insert in post)

yeah... .  right or wrong, it hardly stems from selfishness. And it's not orthogonal to detaching either. Closure is usually where you say your final words and then go. If we thought that our ex was constantly getting the flu because they didnt know to put socks on when they go outside in the winter, we might say in our final goodbye " and don't forget to dress warm ... .  consider wearing socks when there's snow on the ground". Are we selfish? Do we want to "change" them? Only some distorted use of concepts like "selfishness" and "change" could lead to that conclusion.

Tell them? Probably not. But if they 1) don't have a therapist; 2) have said several times that they know something is wrong with them but they don't know what; and 3) hear it with a caring tone... .  then don't guilt yourself if you made the mistake of telling them.
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« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 02:58:57 PM »

Quote from: waitaminute link=topic=193229.msg12192432#msg12192432  Are we selfish? Do we want to "change" them? [i
Only some distorted use of concepts like "selfishness" and "change" could lead to that conclusion.[/i]

can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by this?
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« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 03:37:14 PM »

I think you should really asses why would you tell them after the r/s is dissolved


1) is it for you or them

2) you know this person to some degree how will they react

3) will it better them or you

4) are you ready for the results

i didn't realize my codependency until i met my ex it took her for me to really see me. if i was with someone else id never see my issues if you tell them it might help it might not but what does that mean for you

i want to call her and say hey i love you and i think you should get help but its not my place or my concern they left there gone leave it up to God Buddha the universe the Tarot kaballah Scientology whatever you believe to bring them to their conclusion of i need help. I am a christian i believe God brought me to her to help open her eyes she couldn't see that so God opened my eye he is saving one person in that r/s he has plans for her and hopefully she will finally see until then i am more concerned about healing. I wish them all the best but their dealing with an illness and i thank god i don't have to suffer that.

pretty much really think what is the benefit
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« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 04:49:47 PM »

I told mine that I believed she had BPD a few months into the rs. I had been googling all of the weird things that kept happening and BPD came up over and over. For the two years after that she would sometimes admit to having BPD, sometimes claim I had BPD, and sometimes claim she was perfectly normal but just depressed (and it was typically my fault). I even got her into therapy a few times but she lied to the therapist I believe. Finally I gave her an ultimatum a few months ago and she didn't start real DBT therapy so I walked away and went NC. I heard from her recently and she is in therapy and she sounds like she is doing good. The last words of her recent email to me what me want to burst into tears:

"Know that you saved me.  And I love you.  And I'm sorry."
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 04:52:10 PM »

In my case the relationship hadn't resolved yet and no it surely wasn't done out of selfishness from my perspective. It has everything to do with why he's on silent treatment now. Not sure if it will last forever but it could I've probably ruined the relationship for saying it, but I knew this was a possibility. Maybe that would be a good thing for him. Maybe it will make him try to find a therapist.
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 04:53:50 PM »

Oh wow toliveistofly! I'm speechless... .  thats awesome.
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 09:40:11 PM »

i didn't realize my codependency until i met my ex

Bringing up the issue of co-dependency is very insightful regarding the comments made in this thread.

"Although co-dependents may feel they give an inordinate amount of responsibility, obligation, and worry for another and mistakenly feel like they are giving, in reality they are actually taking."

Below is an answer to a member who had asked how to dismantle their co-dependency that I find to be appropriate here:

Acknowledging that you have a problem is a great place to start.

Finding the courage to let go of the outcome when it comes to others would be next.

While this sounds mean and harsh, the truth is that "we" need to feel in control too, so we meddle and we step in where we don't belong. We do this to avoid facing our own demons. We feel good by helping others so that we don't feel bad. We are the opposite (shadow) of someone who suffers from BPD... .  

I would suggest focusing on how you are going to work on yourself in order to detach instead of trying to 'save' her.
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 12:09:20 AM »

Squid, she absolutely resented me for it.

For your relationship to work, radical acceptance is needed. If  you cannot accept her for who she is, it's manipulation on your part.  It took me a great while to figure this one out. I have  given you a shortcut... .  let it marinate.
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 03:17:04 AM »

Well, we can see in toliveistofly's case here it worked out at least for his BPD. The relationship ended but she sought treatment. I think its important that not  everyone who wants to help is a co dependant and is doing it for selfish reasons. I have taken multitude of multitude co dependancy test and i just dont fit. If i did i would accept and get help. Condependancy is more of the enabler. A co dependent would hold back and walk on eggshells to keep the peace and be likeable. I told him because he needed to know and i knew it would probably be the end of us. Im ok with that. If it leads him to therapy sometime down the road as in toliveistofly's case great.
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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 06:23:10 AM »

Condependancy is more of the enabler. A co dependent would hold back and walk on eggshells to keep the peace and be likeable.

There are many aspects of being co-dependent, as well as levels of extreme. 

The question here seems to boil down to is the relationship over or is it not?

If you are truly ending a r/s and trying to detach from it, the motivation behind wanting to tell someone they may have BPD is something to better understand.  I don't fully buy that is purely out of wanting to help and that there is not some co-dependent tendency involved.
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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 07:59:16 AM »

Condependancy is more of the enabler. A co dependent would hold back and walk on eggshells to keep the peace and be likeable.

 I don't fully buy that is purely out of wanting to help and that there is not some co-dependent tendency involved.

Its ok, im not selling anything here just stating what MY motive is and I wont try to impose my motive on anyone else as has been done here with the statement 'we want it for us to be happy' Thats not my belief. Its perfectly ok for you to have you belief.  Anger to disagree is my stance. I just don t have the perception that me telling my BPD  he has BPD, makes me selfish and co dependant. He left. I also told him he was in denial and would never get better if he didnt accept some responsibility. Ideally, he will seek help like toliveistofly.

I also dont see any connection in the relationship being over or not over as to the disclosure of BPD. What does it matter if you tell them when in the relationship or out? Again, i guess if one has the impression of 'whats in it for me' that would matter.
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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 08:37:52 AM »

This is a really important discussion because it's all about us.  I've struggled with this topic and the only reason I haven't thrown this illness in my ex's face is because doing so, in my opinion, would be selfish.

Whether the relationship is "over or not" is relevant to the motivation for telling someone they are mentally ill.  The statement "we want it for us to be happy" gets to the root of an issue that we need to own if our true motivation is manipulative and selfish in nature.  Only you can decide if this is what's happening.

To begin with, very few if any of us, are qualified to make a BPD diagnosis.  So, if this is true, why would we think our diagnosis is relevant?  Would you like to be informed by a relationship partner that you are an vulnerable narcissist?  Would this motivate you to seek help?  Probably not.  If we are ending a relationship, and throw out a "diagnosis" upon exiting, this says more about us than the person we are "diagnosing."  

To me this appears to be about control more than anything else, but I'm speaking from my own experience.  I had to accept my controlling issues stemmed from my co-dependency.  Addressing and owning my own issues made "diagnosing" my ex totally irrelevant.

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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2013, 08:52:37 AM »

Well for me it is more about that I was carrying a diagnosis in which I am certain he has. For many, they don't know what they have. I've read story after story of people who were misdiagnosed, given wrong therapy, and suffer almost their entire life not knowing whats wrong with them. Some of them commit suicide, because even when they go to the professionals they can't help them. Most therapists don't specialize in BPD and don't know a thing about the disorder, so obviously how could a therapist like that help? Many have reported being happy to know a name for it. I didn't like the feeling I got of just dumping him to fate, knowing I had information which could possibly help him. I'm glad I did it and I hope it helps him. He has come back since I told him he had it, but yet struggles to communicate, he struggles with denial, splitting, projection. I told him he needs to get a therapist who specializes in this disorder. I'm hoping he will.
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« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2013, 09:53:04 AM »

to clarify my original post: I confronted her because I believed in her, I believe in therapy, and I believe people are capable of change. I wanted her to seek the therapy IN the rs. To my regret, it took me leaving for her to actually seek therapy. So, some part of me if happy that she is getting the help she needs, and another part of me is deeply saddened/angry/resentful that she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't start the therapy when there was still a chance to save the rs.
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 10:20:27 AM »

Tailspin, you are right about motives being important. I can't even relate to your view that telling them is "throwing it in their face". Seems like a foreign concept to me. If that's the motivation, then yeah ...  sounds selfish to me.

But just as I would reach out to catch a loved one or a stranger who is falling, I don't ask myself "am I detaching or not?" Selfish? Ok. Gandhi, MLK Jr, the guy that helped me when I was stuck in the snow last month, and the local charity shelter are selfish too because ultimately they are driven by an inner need that they try to satisfy. One could use the word "selfish" in that way and be technically correct. But it's not the common English application of the word "selfish". I'm not sure why people find it useful to use the word in this way. It almost seems a little like Orwellian doublespeak to say that the only way to not be selfish is to focus on yourself.

Lots of reasons for not telling them. They should be considered carefully. But the idea that it's selfish to do so when the intent is not malicious... .  I don't buy it.
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« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 10:33:26 AM »

I get both sides though in my case I see it more like Lifegoeson.

Maybe everyone is speaking from their own experience which is what I was curious about. I believe every case is unique but you can always generalize. There's always exceptions to the rules. I read a Carl Jung book as he explained his experience with a patient who suffered an illness he knew was incurable. He still stuck with him, gave him trust over the long term (10 years) and the patient was eventually cured. He stressed that psychology is an evolving study as he learnt and that every case is unique.

Toliveistofly said he believed in her amongst other things. If he didn't and everyone bailed on her she may never have gotten therapy, and this would just secure her idea of everyone leaving her, adding to her abandonment fears. Selfish, you can argue, is treating them as someone you care about, a friend, that you know you have info that may benefit them and you just withhold it and walk away. I know there are responsibilities I have to my friends and that is to be honest and express a concern (nicely) if I believe its to everyone's benefit. Walking away from them can be seen as selfish. I know if someone told me I am NPD, I would welcome the claim and investigate. It's an opportunity to grow. I am open to all kinds of criticism. Heck it excites me. It means I can grow by finding my shortcomings that I was blind to. I would thank the friends that express this to me.

Also, I believe, in this case, that every relationship is unique to the individuals. It could be a NPD/BPD relationship, co-dependant/BPD or forget the labels, simply a dysfunctional one. Every person speaks from their own experience and great info is passed on. Ultimately you need to discover what works for you and your partner/friend. If you paint things so black and white with no exceptions then maybe you are being stubborn and aren't willing to budge from your conceptions of your own experience.

There's been a recent development in neuroscience that for the first time ever they were able to scan a BPD's brain to know exactly which areas are active. Now they've identified it which will help in treatment through psychotherapy and/or medicine. Heck, if you simply stick around and support them maybe this person just needed an anchor in life. And that's exactly what Jung's patient needed. Someone who will always stay and never leave.
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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 10:44:25 AM »

Lots of reasons for not telling them. They should be considered carefully. But the idea that it's selfish to do so when the intent is not malicious... .  I don't buy it.

Right on, Waitaminute. You can argue everyone is selfish. Let's just get over that. What we're trying to get at here is to listen to people's experience on what resulted from us telling them they have BPD. Great to question motives but to what end are we gonna skew and twist our motives until we talk ourselves into thinking "selfish is bad and I am selfish". I am neither and both. What matters is events and experiences.
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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 10:47:35 AM »

There's been a recent development in neuroscience that for the first time ever they were able to scan a BPD's brain to know exactly which areas are active. Now they've identified it which will help in treatment through psychotherapy and/or medicine. Heck, if you simply stick around and support them maybe this person just needed an anchor in life. And that's exactly what Jung's patient needed. Someone who will always stay and never leave.

thats whats so hurtful and scary makes me feel that i wasnt good enough to be her anchor that some man can come and reap all the benefits of my hard work trying to help her and to help her find healing. that they can hurt and leave and eventually one person will be there for them no matter what and the people who were there for them get left behind
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« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 10:54:47 AM »

thats whats so hurtful and scary makes me feel that i wasnt good enough to be her anchor that some man can come and reap all the benefits of my hard work trying to help her and to help her find healing. that they can hurt and leave and eventually one person will be there for them no matter what and the people who were there for them get left behind

In this case I would argue that it's about them healing first whether they will be with you or someone else. If it will hurt that much and cause you suffering then maybe it's not best to stick around.
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« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 10:58:07 AM »

freshlysane: I know this fear you write about. But look around on this board... .  how many times have you seen that story? I have been reading this board for about a year. I have heard MANY people express the fear that the next guy/girl is going to get the happy ending. But I have never seen anyone write that story? Why? Probably because it is extremely rare.

In my case, my BPDex is in therapy. So perhaps I will be the first to write that sad story where the next guy does not have to go through what I went through. But therapy is a long and hard road and there are many obstacles for her to overcome. I believe in her and I hope she makes it. And I hope that she finds peace in her life. Not gonna lie: I also hold on to some hope that I may be part of her life when she finds peace. But who knows: either of us could fall in love with someone else in the interim and I have to be open to that as the more likely possibility.
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« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »

If psychiatrists - trained professionals in this area - are saying it is not advisable for you or me to tell the pwBPD they have BPD and you do so anyway - how are you not being selfish?

If not selfish, is it arrogance?  Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go agaist the professionals?

This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.

The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

If you go against professionals and do it anyway it is your choice - just know your motivation is all.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2013, 11:27:24 AM »

Good points Waitaminute and NylonSquid,

I too did not relate at all that the motivation  would be to "throw it in their face" or the other reason to feel "superior?" That definitely seems selfish and saddistic to me. That wasn't my motivation. If I wanted to "throw it in his face" like that I'd had done it in one of my angry moments. For me it was simply a last resort when there was nothing else I could do. Like throwing a life vest. Now I hope he does something with it.

But, agree. The point is not the motivation behind it. The point and topic of this thread is has anyone ever done it and how did it work out? We all know the professionals say not to. Regardless, people have and do do it. Sometimes the outcome is good, like in toliveistofly's case. I found it sad that no one acknowledged the great accomplishment of toliveistofly's BPD seeking treatment. But instead focused on what they believed was our motive in doing it. Wouldn't the ultimate goal be for all BPD's to seek treatment and get help? And why would we not be happy about that?  I'm leaving this thread because I am not going to sit here and argue whether it is selfish our not. I stated my believe. You may have yours. Congrats to toliveistofly!
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« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2013, 11:42:29 AM »

Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go against the professionals? This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

Peace,

SB

I know that I came to this site IGNORANT but not out of selfishness or arrogance "to think" that my loved one is mentally ill... .  I CERTAINLY HAD TO Face the Facts to equate his behavior with BPD... .  I did not want that. In wanting to "help" US, I told him that he and other people have a different way of processing life and that did not affect how much I loved him but that WE needed help to talk about it. He eventually DENIED that he had ANY problem and painted me blacker and "crazy". I am on the "Leaving" board. If he is not able to FACE THE FACTS then I am not going to be able to sit around and watch him continue to ruin his life AND mine in the process.

For me it was simply a last resort when there was nothing else I could do. Like throwing a life vest. Now I hope he does something with it. The point is not the motivation behind it. The point and topic of this thread is has anyone ever done it and how did it work out?

I figured that we had lost nearly EVERYTHING else in our relationship; I would at least "go out" with an attempt. Little did I know that DENIAL is a big part of this mental illness... .  no matter how intelligent they are.  

Excerpt
We all know the professionals say not to.

I actually did NOT know this before I mentioned it to him... .  I was truly blindsided by the insidious nature of this ILLNESS.

Excerpt
Wouldn't the ultimate goal be for all BPD's to seek treatment and get help?

It would only make sense to me but then I am NOT BPD... .  

Excerpt
I'm leaving this thread because I am not going to sit here and argue whether it is selfish our not

. You know, I understand what you are saying... .  an ABUSER will say to us "YOU are being selfish" and with BPD we have abuse AND Mental Illness... .  a double whammy... .  if you ask me, the people who LOVE and want to see their pwBPD happy are the most LOVING, WONDERFUL AND SENSITIVE PEOPLE ever.  ((SummerT321))

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« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2013, 12:08:27 PM »

If psychiatrists - trained professionals in this area - are saying it is not advisable for you or me to tell the pwBPD they have BPD and you do so anyway - how are you not being selfish?

If not selfish, is it arrogance?  Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go agaist the professionals?

This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.

The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

If you go against professionals and do it anyway it is your choice - just know your motivation is all.

Peace,

SB

We can debate lots on here. I hear you, SB. Another fact is psychiatrist have prescribed medication that doesn't even work and in some cases cost people lives. FACT. My psychiatrist will tell you this. What I've learnt is, never stop asking. I question myself and others as well. It's great to gain knowledge.

This thread DOES have tons of useful information from people and I love it. It helps me gain knowledge and understanding. That's why I started this thread. I also love hearing all sides of things. There's an old saying that says "Listen to a person of experience than a doctor". It's not an English saying Smiling (click to insert in post)  The point is there is lots to learn from people on here as much as, if not more so, than a professional. In my professional environment, I'd say most people can't see the bigger picture. Professionals can be stuck in old academic ideas. Very few things are absolute so I stay open. It's also what drives me to grow knowing that things are impermanent and in constant change.

All that said, I'm not inclined to tell her she has BPD... but I'm open to it Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2013, 12:29:53 PM »

I figured that we had lost nearly EVERYTHING else in our relationship; I would at least "go out" with an attempt. Little did I know that DENIAL is a big part of this mental illness... .  no matter how intelligent they are.  :'(

To me, this is the key point in all of this.  We all "go out" with something:  Be it love, hate, anger, silence, or anything else.

None of them "work", and they all generally seem to result in us being painted black, our love dismissed, and a hundred other terrible things.  In this context, I guess I don't see the value of going out with anything other than honesty... ?

Will it hurt them?  Probably.

Will it hurt you?  Probably.

Will it go the way you want?  Almost definitely not.

Is it selfish?  I don't know... .  maybe a little.

But really, what alternative strategy wouldn't produce the exact same answers to the above four questions?


I feel like I could have written my ex a letter 1000 pages long.  And it could have been love, or sympathy, or just a thousand pages explaining to her all the ways she was the most hurtful and awful person I'd ever come to know.

Or it could have been all three.

In the end, though, those 1000 pages don't really matter.  Because it's all summed up pretty thoroughly if I just say "I love you with all of my heart, but I really believe you have a condition called Borderline Personality Disorder."

This is perhaps THE WORST thing you could ever say to someone with BPD, but I said it anyway.  She responded as negatively and violently as one would imagine, but I still don't regret it.

I could have gone out with love, hate, sympathy, or anger.  I chose all of the above:  I chose honesty.

She hates me more than ever... .  but I don't regret it.  I told her what I believe, and the rest is up to her.  Perhaps someday in the future she will hit another low point, and the prospect of considering the validity of the letters "BPD" may at least provide a life raft as an alternative to suicide or whatever else.  That thought brings me just a small fragment of peace in a situation in which peace has been very hard to find.

It almost certainly won't bring the reaction you might be hoping for, but I still am inclined to consider it a viable option in terms of your own search for closure.
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« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 12:30:58 PM »

Let me take a moment to come at this from the main purpuse of this board - this board is the leaving board which focuses on detaching from a BPD relationship.

That said, I do agree there are variations that can work, HOWEVER, most of the time it is with the support of a stayer who is just as committed to a good outcome.  Not a leaver that is going to "drop a bomb" and leave.

If you want to be in a friendship with your pwBPD and be a support to them, then the leaving board is not your avenue - the staying board is where you learn the tools.  Stayers are not only partners, they are friends too.

pwBPD can recover and having the support of loved ones really does help in that recovery.  This is the leaving board - a place to help you detach and focus on you.

I didn't know not to tell either and I did in a round-about way.  We were in MC, she had a T & P - so there was support everywhere - ultimately, only a pwBPD can determine what path they want to take.

As a leaver, trying to detach - how does telling her help you detach?
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« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 12:44:50 PM »

Agreed SB.

I wasn't sure where to post this topic, I ultimately put it here. Sorry if it's in the wrong section. I feel personally like I'm romantically detached (happily) but she pops in my mind and I always hope she's okay. Matter of fact I know she's lining up a replacement and if I can help her with that relationship then I would. The guy seems nice and I've met him. I hope he doesn't get so hurt. I love her for who she is but I love me as well. I love to give myself happiness and if I can't with her then I'm on my own. I do however would like to support her. As a friend... or whatever it is. I'm happy realizing I have an opportunity to enjoy life and it's possibilities. It's unfortunate I can't feel that with her. Perhaps I thought the Leaving board had more experience in this than the others.
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« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 12:47:54 PM »

If you are leaving. Your not undecided. Your  not staying. Your leaving and you are also considering telling them about BPD. Would that qualify for the leaving board? Or is it the assumption that if you tell you have to be either staying or undecided?
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« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2013, 12:52:07 PM »

Agreed SB.

I wasn't sure where to post this topic, I ultimately put it here. Sorry if it's in the wrong section. I feel personally like I'm romantically detached (happily) but she pops in my mind and I always hope she's okay. Matter of fact I know she's lining up a replacement and if I can help her with that relationship then I would. The guy seems nice and I've met him. I hope he doesn't get so hurt. I love her for who she is but I love me as well. I love to give myself happiness and if I can't with her then I'm on my own. I do however would like to support her. As a friend... or whatever it is. I'm happy realizing I have an opportunity to enjoy life and it's possibilities. It's unfortunate I can't feel that with her. Perhaps I thought the Leaving board had more experience in this than the others.

By no means do you need to apologize - this has been a good thread.  Senior members try  to keep the boards focused on the boards goal is all.  It was confusing that you seem detached, yet may want to get involved in what could be a serious situation.

My guess would be personal inventory for these kinds of questions within yourself.  Regarding best approaches for communication with pwBPD, the stayers are really the experts... .  honestly, they practice the tools, boundaries, radical acceptane in a way that we leavers really don't have to on a daily basis.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2013, 12:56:07 PM »

There's been a recent development in neuroscience that for the first time ever they were able to scan a BPD's brain to know exactly which areas are active. Now they've identified it which will help in treatment through psychotherapy and/or medicine. Heck, if you simply stick around and support them maybe this person just needed an anchor in life. And that's exactly what Jung's patient needed. Someone who will always stay and never leave.

Just as an FYI... .  

MRIs have been used to detect brain abnormalities in BPD patients since 1998. I am not aware of any new treatment techniques arising from this research.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9858082

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« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2013, 01:02:59 PM »

Detaching... .  

Many people won't detach until they have done everything and given everything they humanly could to try to help the life of the person they loved.

Some have given all material things, all emotional support, all physical and mental support that they have to help the BPD. If I leave without doing that, detachment is incomplete because there will always be this lingering thought "what if... .  " It is not necessarily a "what if... .  then we could be together" thought. In many cases, the end of the rs is as clear as a bell. In those cases, it is a selfless "what if... .  then maybe she/he could have found some happiness". In giving all... .  one might feel the need to give this last piece of advice, all PhD psychologists gasping as they might. It is very much an issue of detaching.

For me, in this mode of "all I can give", I told her to consider getting help for her BPD when she once said goodbye (one of many times). When she came back a few weeks later, she simply said "btw, it's just a bad case of pms, not BPD". I never brought it up again. When I finally detached in the one and only time I initiated a goodbye, I didn't mention it. But it is there for her to use if she is so inclined... .  maybe there is a 1 in 1000  chance it will help. And as a byproduct of offering my advice, I can detach knowing that I could offer nothing more.
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« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2013, 01:06:16 PM »

just know your motivation is all.

There is a lot to this, seeing as the subject line here uses the word 'confronted'. Where are you coming from (any of us) when you 'confront' someone, especially when it concerns them possibly having a mental illness, and that they could seek help for it?

I first heard of BPD when my exgf accused me of having it. I was already growing more aware of her patterns of projections, but had barely heard of PD's before and did some online research. It was amazing (and sad, distressing, frustrating... .  ) how well she was the one who fit the criterea. It gave me a lot to think about. The very next appointment I had with my T at the time, while talking about what had been going on in the realtionship since our last session, he asked me if I'd ever heard of BPD. I told him my gf had just recently said I was someone who had it, but when I read about it it seemed to fit her way more than it did myself. He agreed and said that was why he brought it up. Not that he could diagnose her, since she wasn't his patient and they had never even met (although the sessions were originally set up, at her request, as couples therapy, which she then refused to ever go to), but he said from what I had been describing it made him lean in that direction as far as what I was dealing with with her.

I didn't run right home and tell her 'You have BPD, not me', but it was in my mind, and I was more aware than ever of what was going on as far as her actions and where they were coming from. I learned about validating, walking away from conflicts, etc., Things would be ok for awhile and then she'd leave again. We recycled many times, and towards the end, when she was again accusing me of being the one with a PD, I did mention that my T had said that in no way was I someone who did but she seemed likely to herself. Which wasn't great of me to say, even though I was offering her support at the time. Saying therapy was a beneficial tool and would help her no matter what she had going on, that it's good to go and talk with someone like that sometimes, it's healing. I feel my motivations were good, offering to continue standing by her, but it came out during one of her more 'angry' times and was not taken well. She has not to my knowledge gone to see a therapist of any kind. I didn't bring it up again because, even though I loved her and planned to spend my life with her, it was her choice to make to help heal herself, and seek others who could help her with that.

Looking back, I see that mostly I was being kind, and 'helpful', with her when I brought it up, but a small part of it was to just toss it back to her, not accepting her projections as much and standing up for myself more. Either way, it didn't help us stay together. She saw that I was acknowledging the patterns more and more, and wanting real change to occur in positive directions. Didn't feel like a 'confrontation' to me (my side of things), but she reacted that way (showing PD traits), and it helped push us farther apart.

I think if you're staying, and committed to that, bringing up a subject like this is appropriate if handled well enough. If you're detaching/already out of the relationship? Best to keep the focus on yourself, wish the other person well, and leave it be.



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« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2013, 01:08:53 PM »

I have not gone through the bulk of this thread so if this information has already been stated, forgive me.

My understanding of people with BPD (pwBPD), is that they lack tools to moderate/temper their emotions.  In a sense, they are developmentally arrested when it comes to handling their emotions.  Also, they exhibit "splitting" behavior which is "black & white" thinking.  So they see people either as "all good" or "all bad" and can alternate between that perspective, the main point being that they do not see shades of gray (metaphorically speaking).  And this "splitting" behavior applies to themselves, and this is why they often cannot tolerate being wrong; because to be wrong is to be "all wrong" and painting him/herself "black."

So I would argue that until they take some steps towards recovery, they do not have the emotional tools to handle the information that they are mentally disordered.  Because for them to consider that they are mentally disorder means that they run the risk of seeing themselves as completely flawed and worthless.

I would not venture to try to push this idea upon them unless I (if I were their therapist... .  and I am not even of this profession) felt that they had developed sufficient tools to begin making this consideration.  Some people get to this point.  But I imagine it is not done without a lot of effort on their part and on the part of their support.

Outside of the context of this kind of recovery and support, just to tell them point blank would be "dropping a bomb" on them.

Best wishes, Schwing
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« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2013, 01:44:38 PM »

In my case I didn't drop any bomb. I had been talking to him for months. Hinting, telling him books to get, all kinds of stuff, little by little. He kept coming back to me. I even told him I would help him find a therapist if he wanted me to. He kept coming back. I told him I was doing all kinds of research and he said. "Im glad" So, there is no way when I actually came out and told him point blank BPD it was like a bomb.  Obviously in toliveistofly's case... .  it was not a "bomb" and sent her right where she needed to be, in DBT therapy. Nothing is black and white. Not even this topic because each and every persons situation is different. And let me also clarify, I am on the leaving board because, I am detaching from a man who is in denial. I have told him if he wants help he knows where to find me and I will help him with anything he needs. So, I'm not abandoning him. I'm detaching. If he comes back, I will help him and probably switch back over to staying.
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« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2013, 01:52:39 PM »

I mentioned every relationship being a unique case. Though my exuBPDgf splits, I can see her struggling and trying to understand. She literally says "I'm trying to forgive you and I think about it lots but I just can't seem to understand. Sometimes I feel like I can forgive you but when I recall some events I change my mind and get hurt again".  It's hard for her to let go and she tells me how badly she wants to be with me. I question the severity and seeing how she's able to articulate the struggle in her head. She says how things like this happen when she is stressed. I mean, she has some awareness of herself and she isn't suicidal and self harming (in a dangerous way). This is why I've questioned pointing a few things out about her without being angry or blaming but supportive.
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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2013, 03:42:35 PM »

I had not yet begun detaching when I "pointed out" CERTAIN behaviors that I SAW in him that were DISRUPTIVE to our relationship and my willingness to work through them with him, with help of a counselor. I thought I was talking to "a normal" person... .  then I started to learn about how insidious BPD is.

I would NEVER suggest that anyone NON tell an undiagnosed person who is VERY LIKELY to be suffering from BPD that "they have BPD"... .  

I told mine with VALIDATION and empathy that I did not KNOW how he felt but I "have read" that he may feel only HALF of the joy I feel and NINE times the mental and emotional pain and suffering".

It allowed me to inform him that I was:

1- aware of his pain

2- that I CARED for what he was feeling

3- that I was willing to do anything that I could do to help him and us "feel" better about each other

4- I would "work on me" and do my best to NOT cause "known" triggers

5- STOPPED TALKING ABOUT HOW I FELT. Knowing that he would only dysregulate as if I was "trying to take the center stage with my pain and disregarding his pain and suffering and even "disrespecting" him by trying to share my life with him.

6- that I was reading and trying to understand how he felt; it is NOT like I feel... .  I FEEL GREAT JOY AND DEEP PAIN but NOT TO THE EXTREMES that he may feel them... .  especially the pain... .  so much deeper.

He did not like to see books on "BPD" sitting around even though I did not "leave them in plain sight". I nearly read EVERY one and bought Valerie Porr's book on "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder"... .  in my opinion the VERY BEST overall book (Thanks to Randi for her fine work "Walking on Eggshells"; a fundamental book for first learning about BPD and mental illness)... .  

He has DENIED that "he is messed up" (his words) and I told him that "I am messed up and going to counseling to help me think rightly and feel better"... .  he has the "STIGMA" of mental illness and will NOT go to counseling.

So to answer the question directly; I have NOT confronted him with BPD but I HAVE shared SYMPTOMS of BPD and how his behavior SEEMS to be like the symptoms and how I am understanding him better because I love him.



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« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2013, 03:47:39 PM »

Nylonsquid,  I hear compassion coming from you towards your exwBPD.  I can relate.  I spent some time on the staying board after our last breakup (one of many), and I learned some great skills.  We agreed to a friendship, even though she started dating others.  She told me after the fifth or sixth breakup that she needed to start dating others to 'get over me'.  We learn that w/o treatment it's extremely difficult for pwBPD to be alone, because they need the mirroring due to lack of stable self.

I want to say that is commendable to desire a friendship with her although she is seeing someone else.  Again, I attempted this, but realized I was not detached enough, therefore my romantic love for her was still in tact.  When she spoke of going on a date, etc. it became too much for me to handle.  I dealt with it at first, but it became increasingly difficult and painful for me.  If you have truly detached romantically, then I wish you the best.  If you are not detached, a friendship will likely be very difficult.

Have you read Patient and Clear's story?  She has been managing a friendship with her ex and has been quite successful to a large degree, but it has also been a great struggle for her.  I personally think it is great for a pwBPD to have an anchor that is just a friend.  I also realized I am not strong enough for that role right now.  There's too much work I need to do on myself.  As far as whether or not to mention BPD to her, I'm not going to comment.  You've been give some great suggestions already.  Take care.
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« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2013, 03:49:11 PM »

real lady,

If you have that open dialog to discuss things the way you do, that sounds great. good lesson for those who might get recycled.
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« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2013, 03:57:56 PM »

Nylon - this has been a great thread, thank you for starting it.

Fundamentally, those who know my posting - I tend to think 99% of our twisted thinking will fall into one of the 10 False Beliefs that keep us stuck.

Perhaps this thread would go with:

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

You might want to stay to help your partner. You might want to disclose to them that they have borderline personality disorder and help them get into therapy. Maybe you want to help in other ways while still maintaining a “friendship”.

The fact is, we are no longer in a position to be the caretaker and support person for our “BPD” partner – no matter how well intentioned.

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

We also need to question your own motives and your expectations for wanting to help. Is this kindness or a type “well intentioned” manipulation on your part - an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which they suffer?

More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we are attempt to help anyone else.

You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival.

If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away. Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.
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« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2013, 04:00:52 PM »

Wondering if anyone has confronted their partner with the BPD symptoms and suggest they may have it. I'd like to know what the repercussions or reaction is.

The reaction mine had was to split me again. Paint me black. But, I knew this would likely happen. It was a deal breaker for me to stay if he was in denial and refused treatment. I would not 'recycle' per say se if he returned. I would likely be his friend and provide support for him if he acknowledged it and got into therapy.
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« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2013, 04:29:01 PM »

Hi not sure if i am in the right catergory but the way i see it is we want them to get help that is why we tell them our , our love for them is imense  i am a parent of BPD all we have tried to do for years is to help so our we suppose to hide our head in the sand and hope and pray for a miracle no we have to try and try as my husband says you cant fix anything if you dont think u have a issue whether that is mental or physical  .  he also says the definition of insane is "doing the same the over and over again and hoping for a different outcome" (pardon the insane remark ) if you saw your best friend bleeding from the chest what would u do nothing come on this mental illness is not simple to say the least we have tried talking to our daughter about it and all we get is denial everyones elses fault so common with BPDs my two cents is keep trying because if they do not believe they have a issue then they will not seek help MENTAL PROBLEMS are so serious so i say yes tell them if you love them but in a calm manner whatever works because from my outlook they have a terrible future just my opinion   please pardon my grammar
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« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2013, 05:22:12 PM »

Seeking Balance, False belief #9 proved accurate in my case.  I am a trigger for her, and she is a trigger for me.  Thanks for sharing.
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2013, 05:56:14 PM »

Seeking Balance, False belief #9 proved accurate in my case.  I am a trigger for her, and she is a trigger for me.  Thanks for sharing.

Phoenix: could you expand on this a bit for me? What does it mean that you are a trigger for her and she is a trigger for you? I am trying to understand so I can apply this to my own situation. Examples would be very helpful.

thanks
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« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2013, 06:30:48 PM »

If psychiatrists - trained professionals in this area - are saying it is not advisable for you or me to tell the pwBPD they have BPD and you do so anyway - how are you not being selfish?

If not selfish, is it arrogance?  Unless you have a phd and study this, why do you think you should go agaist the professionals?

This thread has a lot of useful information.  This forum is called FACING THE FACTS.

The facts - it is not advisable to tell.

If you go against professionals and do it anyway it is your choice - just know your motivation is all.

Peace,

SB

We can debate lots on here. I hear you, SB. Another fact is psychiatrist have prescribed medication that doesn't even work and in some cases cost people lives. FACT. My psychiatrist will tell you this. What I've learnt is, never stop asking. I question myself and others as well. It's great to gain knowledge.

This thread DOES have tons of useful information from people and I love it. It helps me gain knowledge and understanding. That's why I started this thread. I also love hearing all sides of things. There's an old saying that says "Listen to a person of experience than a doctor". It's not an English saying Smiling (click to insert in post)  The point is there is lots to learn from people on here as much as, if not more so, than a professional. In my professional environment, I'd say most people can't see the bigger picture. Professionals can be stuck in old academic ideas. Very few things are absolute so I stay open. It's also what drives me to grow knowing that things are impermanent and in constant change.

All that said, I'm not inclined to tell her she has BPD... but I'm open to it Smiling (click to insert in post)

I couldn't agree with you more. In reference to why would you go against a professional? I don't make it a habit to go against professionals, but I have. For instance. Doctors and/or professionals have recommended medications for me and my family multiple times. I have refused them if I found they were not necessary and there were alternative solutions. Statin drugs being one if them to lower cholesterol. I found a natural alternative, lowered the cholesterol that way. Does that make me wrong? Does it make me arrogant? I don't think so. The professionals told me to take zocor. A drug that they need to monitor my liver function with lab tests to make sure its not damaging my liver.  What if the lab test shows your liver is damaged? Oppss... .  time to get off that drug now. Here let me prescribe you another to help with that liver damage we've just done.

I can think of a number of other prescriptions which I've refused and found alternatives for. I don't think that makes me arrogant, but your entitled to your belief.  

And I agree with you mggt. If it was my child, there is no way in hell I'd walk away and say nothing.

I wonder what is seen as more selfish or arrogant. Making your own decisions about your life and your loved ones. Or trying to force your beliefs on someone else and diagnos strangers  via internet forum thead.
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2013, 07:21:30 PM »

Quote from: SummerT321
I wonder what is seen as more selfish or arrogant. Making your own decisions about your life and your loved ones. Or trying to force your beliefs on someone else and diagnos strangers  via internet forum thead.

SummerT321,

You are making a good point here, but my perception is that this thread is becoming polarized. This is ironic, and a paradox, considering what we are discussing.

I think we can all agree that the 'splitting' -- polarization -- that happens in BPD is tragic and something that people who think in more greys, more often, have great trouble coming to terms with.

I suggest that we can apply that 'there are shades of grey' thinking to this thread also: there will be grey areas where it's right for a given person to detach and also say, "I believe you have BPD", in a compassionate way. It will probably be received split into negative, but it may be necessary for the person who is detaching to know they've done their best. And then there will be times, maybe the majority, where it's best for all concerned just to go quietly NC and leave the diagnosis to others.

Seeking Balance has stated that it's a 'FACT' that professionals recommend the second option. This may be true, and should not be forgotten.

But personally, I've had my own troubles with professionals in the health field, and ended up having to do my own research to find out about a personal condition that the health professionals I saw had no explanation for.

So I'd like to add something about 'FACTS' also: they exist in our mind, not as immutable solid reality. They are MODELS that are a group agreement on the best available evidence that explains a given set of measurements. They regularly get replaced by new models: think Newtonian physics->Einsteinian Relativity->Quantum Mechanics. Each one has facts that only remain facts until the deeper model appears.

And concerning BPD, we here are literally on the BLEEDING EDGE of where those models are constructed.     Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2013, 04:38:36 AM »

Well said pretty please. I really do relate to your post. And we are on the cutting edge. And in some cases the bleeding edge... .  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .  Yes,  I do see many shades of gray for this situation too. Ideally, an appropriate therapist would tell them. I wish mine would get one. Maybe he will. Thats my wish.
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« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2013, 08:05:52 AM »

Toliveistofly,

I will PM you regarding the question you asked me.

Smiling (click to insert in post)

Phoenix.Rising
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« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2013, 08:19:16 AM »

I have left my copy of SWOE, and some other books out on my desk.

She has seen them, and is angry about them - - but not directly to me.

Not saying it is right, would love to discuss Amegdala disfunction with her -- makes it more like a broken leg or something less personal. 

Our 8 year old son is early-showing some of the Traits and I would love to get him competent help upfront, so he does not have to suffer for decades like Mrs. Somewhere has.

Guess we are going to do Marriage Therapy or some such, and will get the pro's best approach.

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« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2013, 02:47:19 PM »

I think I got the diagnosis wrong, 2 years ago I thought he was bipolar, he has sort of admitted that, when really pushed he will say OK I have a double personality, then change the subject. I havent said the word borderline, but today on the phone after months of abusive texting since I left him, I mentioned projecting and he laughed hysterically. I said I know all about him, I really think I do, this forum has made me understand inside out why his behaviour was always so odd and illogical and we could not communicate. He loved that too, thought it was really funny, and in spite of me discovering him with another woman at our house only 6 days ago, he now is insisting that he comes round tonpick up my stuff and I move back in to "try to rebuild something together".

He has agreed to come to the BPD doctor I have talked too. Not sure whether I am wise to be still involved in all this, but maybe it will help him come to terms with why I cant go back... .  no I dont think he will come to terms with it, he has discovered after 12 years with me he can still get a new girlfriend, and that will be much more fun than having tonself-analyze and rebuild his relationship with me... .  ! But his bod has had a serious effect on our kids, and I know that as they turn into teenagers they will struggle with his inconsistent behaviour too, and they will fight with him, and I will always be the demon as it is all my fault - I left him so I have destroyed the family!

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« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2013, 03:23:47 PM »

Thanks interesting CMJO. That he "laughed" at you saying he was "projecting?" So, he at least had some knowledge of what projection was. I myself had to look that up when I found out it was a thing they do. Also, interesting. This is what actually caused the "worst" reaction in my pwBPD. Not the diagnosis it's self. I had already mentioned borderline personality. Infact I had mentioned that long ago. In an indirect way with literature. But it was me saying he was "projecting" on me. And I gave him the exact details of what I thought he was doing and why. When I say the "worst" reaction, what I mean is this is when he finally said. "I don't ever want to speak to you again!" Like a kid. He's never said that to me before. I think it was not so much the diagnosis which bothered him so much, but that I had figured him out right down to a T.
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« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2013, 03:46:37 PM »

Has anyone on this thread read the book "Loving Someone with BPD"?

It is very eye opening and worth the read if you want to be a supportive person to someone with BPD.

The more of these posts that I have read, it seems to me that there is a big difference between a "chosen" relationship and "unchosen" relationship.  What does this mean?  How you may handle a spouse (when kids are involved), child, parent, sibling (unchosen relationships) can be quite different than how one handles a gf/bf (chosen relationship).

Motivations will be different.

Ultimately, we all tend to do the best we can with the information we have - sometimes we get it right and sometimes we don't.  It's life and none of us here walk on water (that I am aware of... .  ) 

A summary of folks on this thread who have confronted on the leaving board has 1 success story.  My thoughts are the staying board likely has more successes.

Fundamentally - these relationships are difficult and how we may handle something in the heat of the moment vs. a few years after the fact will look different as well - time has a way of changing perspectives.



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« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2013, 03:52:02 PM »

I did point out how she was projecting on to me. She knew what it meant (I think). Sometimes when she thinks I am upset (reading me wrong) I just say lovingly, "hey! You're terrible at reading my face. Does this face say anything but love to you? I'm crazy about you". I told her before that she sees a guilty face because that's what she feels. Basically I told her lots of this stuff and I catch her doing these things. Like when she laughs mockingly, I say "defense mechanism: denial. I respect what you say but you mock me. Just letting you know we should talk like adults". This was during the course of the relationship. She gets caught off guard and isn't sure how to respond.

Funny story: I told her about projection and how I think it's one, if not THE, single most fascinating human charateristic. She set up an art show and called it National Projections. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 03:54:42 PM »

We want them to change so we can be happy... .  

No, I dont agree, I want so much for him to be happy. It is awful to realise how much pain he must be in, to see him cry. In between his rages and silences he made me happy, he could be inspiring funny and so loving. I dont want him to keep suffering, to be so afraid of loss, of death, surely some people can be successfully treated... .  does anyone know of anyone whose life was majorly improved by therapy for BPD?
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« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 04:10:34 PM »

CMJO- Yes. There are studies you can find online with cure rates ranging around 50% more or less. Some hiher some lower... .  DBT and Schema Therapy seem to be the most successful. The key is to make sure you get a good BPD specialist. One can't just walk into any therapist office and think they are going to be able to deal with BPD successfully. And also, the patient has to be the one to want it or it obviously doesn't work with out the patients desire and hard work.

NylonSquid,

You sound like you are able to disconnect and not take things personal and keep it light. That's good. When I first learned about projection I just figured it was when they blame us, I'm starting to see more clearly that projection is also about their defenses. It's not concious, you can't "talk" them into logic and have them change their mind. It's subconcious primative defense mechanism for coping with their emotions and we become their emotional puching bag and it makes them feel better. Thats why the do it. But not premeditated calculation.


SB, I think your right that this thread now may appear to be better fit on the staying board due to alot of the content on here now. I'm sure it could be moved if better suited. Makes no difference to me though.
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« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 06:04:10 PM »

NylonSquid,

You sound like you are able to disconnect and not take things personal and keep it light. That's good. When I first learned about projection I just figured it was when they blame us, I'm starting to see more clearly that projection is also about their defenses. It's not concious, you can't "talk" them into logic and have them change their mind. It's subconcious primative defense mechanism for coping with their emotions and we become their emotional puching bag and it makes them feel better. Thats why the do it. But not premeditated calculation.

Yes, I don't take it personally because it doesn't have to do with me. Neither her loving me. She just needs an object to love her, that can be me or any guy out there. This truth I have made peace with. Does not mean I don't love her and it doesn't mean the love she gives isn't unfiltered and childlike. I am in love with that part of her that gives it and it melts my heart. A perfect "need to be loved and love to be needed" relationship. Ah well... it is what it is. What has been hard for me is compromising myself. I just can't do a bunch of things I like to do and I can't feel as liberated expressing my thoughts. Hence, the walking on egg shells. I sometimes play the victim when she's upset or crying and act like I'm the victim. She hates when I turn it around. She looks at me like a little girl, stops crying and says "this is not fair. It's about me not you". Haha.

Seeking Balance: Thanks for the suggestion.
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OTH
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« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 06:28:22 PM »

As far as the statistics go... .  These are rates for people who go into and stick with treatment. These are not rates for the general population which is very adverse to treatment. Just to put those numbers in perspective.

Honestly. If he really wants to tell her... .  tell her. It isn't going to matter. People with BPD do need support. Consistent everyday support with boundaries from people who are in control of their emotions and can make clear decisions. They need less emotional upheaval not more. Generally ex partners tend to believe that if they just give a bit more love the SO will get it and everything will be fine. This makes it worse. They are not in a position for a healthy two way relationship. They need less emotional passion not more. Two people going through a breakup both emotionally sensitive and one with a disorder marked by emotional sensitivity! The problem with an ex lover who isn't planning on sticking around telling them should be obvious if you have studied BPD at all. The abandoning partner (perceived or real) telling them they are crazy is going to help?

What are the are success stories? From reading the staying board and family board it is generally most helpful with a parent figure who is there to establish firm boundaries and direct their mental health care as needed. When it is a child it is a lot easier. For the staying board it is essentially the same thing with an added twist. The partner has to be in a bad enough spot to want to make a change. Usually suicidal. The support is based on having loved ones who accept that their partner is disordered and is going to have an incredibly difficult time getting over it. These are people who take care of their own emotional needs and who are a bit detached. Who will not get overly upset if they run away or insult them or just completely fail with their latest therapist. It isn't a pretty picture. You are posting on a thread for people who believe their partners have a personality disorder. Do you really think that somebody with mental illness just hears that they are crazy and get better? Wow. I wish it were so easy! Do you actually think your ex partner has a mental disorder? If  you don't and believe she just has a few BPD traits why don't you talk about those traits rather than accusing her of being full blown BPD? That might give you a starting point for a conversation and you can see whose advice is correct.

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« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2013, 07:20:45 PM »

Lol... .  yes they hate when you turn it back around on them NylonSquid. Mine too. But this not being able to do things and be yourself is the reason why I decided I to let him go and the denial too.
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« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2013, 09:51:45 PM »

My thought on this is to not tell them. My BPDexgf is already aware that there is something very wrong with her. She is deathly afraid of other people finding out. I found out over the span of 15+ years with her. Her husband probably figured it out too, but he didn't live to tell anyone about it that I know of. Once we were separating, she tried to force me to commit suicide through unrelenting verbal, emotional, and physical abuse. Whether consciously or subconsciously, she could not let her secret get out. Once it was clear I was going to make it out alive, she ramped up a distortion campaign to destroy my reputation and credibility. She even tried to get me arrested and charged with a felony. Anything to ensure her secret stayed a secret. This is a powerful mental illness. It is not a matter of: Duh, I have no idea what is going on, Duh... .  

Simply telling a BPD that you suspect they have BPD is not likely to result in a light-bulb moment. I think the reason why professionals approach BPD very carefully is precisely because they understand the complex nature of the disorder and the innate defense mechanisms that protect it from being exposed and treated. If they can carefully and slowly defuse the bombs and booby traps--peeling back the defense mechanisms, the BPD has a much better chance of continuing therapy and actually getting well. It doesn't need a label for a professional to deal with it if the pro knows what they are dealing with.

Kind of like a bomb-squad technician. They don't need a brand name and model number on a device to know how to defuse it. They rely on their knowledge and experience dealing with similar devices to plan and execute a course of action that brings about the desired result.

That being said, I hope some therapist tells my ex that she is stark-raving BPD, and if she doesn't get immediate, intensive therapy she will die penniless, alone, and insane.
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« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2013, 08:43:50 AM »

I have tried but usually my timing was bad and my udBPDexgf will take any talk about her problem as a personal attack. It is very tough on her to think or talk about it because by conventional norms her behavior makes her look like she is using people intentionally.

In all of our many recycles it did seem like her moments of awareness became progressively more frequent. When she is having these moments of awareness she has overwhelming guilt about her behavior.

It is a sad thing to behold. Mental illness sucks.
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« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2013, 08:12:01 AM »



Staff only


This thread has reached the page limit and is now locked.  Feel free to pick one of the topics from the thread to start a new one.

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