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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: He's moving out 'Again' Can I cope...  (Read 4404 times)
1bravegirl
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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2013, 03:17:23 PM »

Forgot to add... to Salut...

I'm not sure yet about the roommate thingy.  I have some breathing room for a minute, Lord know's I need that, then i'll make it a matter of serious prayer and look from within my Christian congregation and to friends I know up here and see what happens.

I have a feeling it's all gonna work out... Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  for you too...   You're such a loving and sweet person.  It will work out.  for you too At_Bay! and ditto on the loving, sweetness.  stay healthy as possible... .  love 1bg
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GreenMango
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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2013, 03:39:00 PM »

some of that was low cortisol, some of that was just emotional immaturity.  The combo is a killer.

So now...   I'm growing up for real this time... oh boy... as my mom would say when she was happy about something... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)   

1bg the topic of emotional maturity is a really good one.  We can bring quite a bit to the table that allows a dysfunctional relationship to thrive.

People select marriage partners who have the same level of emotional maturity. Emotional immaturity manifests in unrealistic needs and expectations. ~ Murray Bowen, M.D

Have you identified things in the relationship as far as your emotional maturity you would like to work on or are working on currently?
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1bravegirl
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2013, 11:34:18 AM »

Yes, I definitely have...

My inability to address my own personal issues...   I have created a blanket or shield around myself in order to remain in this r/s by staying busy in everybody elses business...

What I mean by that is finding ways to avoid the inevitable.  Cause if I look at myself too deeply i'll have to answer those all too painful questions as to 'WHY?" have I chosen to be stuck in such misery and unhappiness for so long?

And the answer is complex and not easy to answer... Not in one sentence anyway...

But due to the nature of events, (3 parents one right after the other getting terminal cancer... period of 6 yrs total caretaking daily) I was able to pour myself into them (which I was glad to be with them and not abused at home... ) But that all created more of a smokescreen for me to not work on my own painful issues.

That takes us back to your question.  What can I see now due to immaturity that I can or have been working on.

My ability to take care of me and be responsible for my decisions and be totally honest about things.

I can't live a lie anymore. And I'm a very honest person.  usually...

So the past 4 months I personally recognized was a total lie and there was no way I was going to just accept that this was it for me AGAIN>>   I tried to explain that to him but he just laughed it off. 

"Oh, you don't mean that... You'll be lovin on me again tomorrow... "  huh?   I don't think so... .  

I hadn't been able to love on him since he returned and I'm sure he felt it.   He wasn't really able to love on me much either.

It was a lose lose situation but we both ran right back into it basically cus that's what 'Kids' do.

So i need the link to the lessons please... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

1bg  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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1bravegirl
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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2013, 12:15:29 PM »

I get it now...  Oh boy do I get it. Idea Idea

What an Aha! Moment i'm having...   Thank you Lord! and you too GreenMango... .  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I was already doing so much of what the article suggests that we do in order to completely start to disengage.

I had already emotionally disengaged a few years ago as far as having those strong feelings for him or missing him.

I didn't even miss him or think of him hardly EVER. Never cried for him once!

Until I became emotionally unstable... .  or weak and feeble minded... then he started to look inviting again.  It was all about my stability and I know all of this.

I told him that! This past month I tried to explain to him why I contacted him and drove 200 miles to see a Dr and then drive by his house... (HUGE mistake.) but I was so vulnerable and sick and scared... now I know I could of easily stuck it out but chose the so called 'easier route... ' and it was anything but easy.

I even tried to explain to him that I had lost the ability to feel connected to him due to all the abuse and pain and I could tell he had the same problem. He didn't argue that point and just listened.

I told him that I wasn't attracted to him like before due to him not being willing to even admit to any of his personal issues or area's of responsibility and that I could never feel safe in a r/s like this when he was already using anything he overheard about my past as a reason to say... "See! I'm not the problem here!@  Never have been!  I just heard you tell your friend its your illnesssssss... NOt me!"

No dear.  the problem goes back to our toxic r/s for 28 yrs and how it's affected both of us...  

Then he'd go right into...  "Now your living in the past again... .  "

You don't understand...  The past experiences are what make and shape who we are today...   You should understand that... Look how you struggle to communicate and all the pain you feel due to being abused by your father all your young life... .  "  

And of course that didn't go over very well but he got the point.

SO I was as honest and upfront as I possibly could be without sounding too cold and heartless... like...

"I don't love you anymore!"  No... I didn't quite put it that way... I just explained I didn't have romantic feelings for him due to the r/s and especially how things were going this time... .  

And that was it.  He wasn't sticking around to be roommates with me and use his little money he had left for my issues.  He realized that this was a deadend street and felt it and I'm certain that 's why he was willing to leave so easily.

This is what I read to help reiterate that fact... .  

Explaining to him the relationship is making you feel unhealthy, or acting as if you don't find them attractive any more - can cool a relationship and create a lot of emotional distance pretty quickly. You know this person as well as anyone - you know what will work; what to say that will cause them to pull back.

No Contact is mostly about you

If the "x" is sending you e-mail, the biggest problem is not that they are sending it - but rather that you are reading it, and/or are stressed out about it. Ignored, unread e-mail are harmless.

No Contact is about dealing with this aspect of "you".

If you don't have the discipline to not read their e-mail, for example, then have your e-mail program route it to the trash. Accept that you're hurting emotionally, and use this type of "crutch" to protect yourself against yourself.

I could never NOT read his emails... I will follow this advice this time...

But also understand that "not reading", the e-mail, for example, is a lot different than having the "x" receive an "undeliverable" auto-reply. The "undeliverable" auto-reply" is really a way that communicates your vulnerability or your anger or your _____ (fill in the blank). If you do this you are opening a door into your recovery process... .  so, ask yourself "why?".

What a good point huh?

True Disengagement (No Contact) Works.

The key points:

1) No contact" is conceptually about disconnecting from a relationship. The name describes, more or less, the key tactic... .  but NC is not the goal... .  the goal is for you to disengage yourself from the relationship.


2) The harder it is for you to disengage, or the more you are enmeshed in the relationship, the "higher a wall" you should erect (to keep yourself out). This is the first basis you should use to decide on which tactics are appropriate.

3) Straight forward tactics are the best way to effect "No Contact". Dramatic tactics work well too, but before using them, carefully examine your motives to be sure they are healthy and you are aimed at the right target.

4) If your partner doesn't start to disengage and give you "space" then more forceful methods may be in order to absolutely "close of the door"... .  but if you have options, try to pick those that neutralize the partner - not trigger them. Look for "defusing" tactics first. This is the second basis for selecting which tactics are appropriate.


What if it is just too overwhelming

Expect that this will be too overwhelming. Leaving some one that you love, hurts. Minimizing the damage, in the long run, is what this is all about - the price for that is hurt today.

Hurt is part of your healing - it's your greatest challenge and you must be committed to work through it - which is where we began this discussion (paragraph 6).

I haven't had this problem in the last 2 attempts to free myself from him.  Not missing him or thinking about him at all. It isn't until I start to break N/C that I get sucked in again... And/or I start to struggle financially or within myself.   I will remember this and work to make this a problem of the past with my Therapist... .  I detached emotionally years ago... due to self preservation.

Be prepared to seek help. If you find yourself slipping into depression, ruminating, etc - recognize early that these are not signs that you should go back into a dysfunctional relationship, but rather signs of your own private struggle with your emotional enmeshment. It is common in these relationships.

When this happens, you may need professional help, possibly medication, to mediate the depression and the ruminating before it breaks your resolve; drives you back into an unhealthy relationship.

Whenever you are mentally impaired; chemically imbalanced; or in a state of anxiety, you will likely make bad decisions, and even feel overwhelmed by the need to make them. If you are in a depression this whole endeavor may seem insurmountable.

Are therein lies my personal problem and why i've allowed myself to return to the pain of this r/s so many times... .   I am starting to go downhill for whatever reason, I feel insecure, i'm mentally impaired and chemically imbalanced, anxiety sets in and what do I do?  Think of the one crutch I've had for almost 30 yrs...  The r/s that created the cycle of event's to begin with.  Not this time... It's nice to see yourself on paper and recognize that your not just a lost cause or crazy... well too crazy to fix anyway... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

But it is not - it's your emotions, distorting your reality. Find the time - spend the money - get professional help and get and keep yourself stabilized.

Leaving someone you love is difficult. There is no question about that. And, You will lkely feel insecure, uncomfortable, and empty when you are on your own... .  but this is just a natural unwinding of the intertwinement of two people... .  everyone feels this.

Disengagement. No contact. Out of site - out of mind. It works best when you fully understand it.


~ bpdfamily.com


AND BOY AM I DOING THAT. bpdfamily.com... .  

Thank you so much for reminding me to read this!  I'll print it out and read it ever so often... .  That's a promise to myself!

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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2013, 02:10:21 PM »

Thanks. That is very helpful and so on point. Very difficult undertaking. I am interested in "defusing" methods. Things that may not trigger as one attempts to go NC. Do you have any insight or other information to share on this. I was on the forum last night. Dealing with a night of multiple phone call and what ended up being 96 texts in a row. I didn't respond. I have not gone NC yet but it's seeming I am going to have to until my divorce can be finalized. Or at a minimum limited contact. She actually sent me photos of probably 10 men last night that she had turned down to be with me. She was raging in true form. I still haven't responded. She also said she had taken pills and drank and that I would have to deal with the fallout when she no longer existed. Assuming suicide warning there. Any help appreciated.
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Clearmind
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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2013, 09:18:45 PM »

But how long can you live with someone that won't talk to you or respect the fact that you are REALLY sick?

For as long as you allow it BG!

You have choices and its up to us to enact them and not rely on others, especially a mentally ill person to make the decisions for us.

He does try to help out and do little things but he doesn't see the big picture... with this illness... how can he.  He's so miserable and now so am I again...

Exactly he can’t!

If you are miserable then what are your choices right now?

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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2013, 01:07:12 AM »

My decision is to not be unhappy and unhealthy any longer!

I have had two really nice days... today especially.

I have been redecorating and just feeling like myself again. This soon!  I'm really amazed and so thrilled to find out just how much was created due to the pressure I felt here with him and the high stress level I was living under.

I had a nice day with the dogs at the park, went to my Christian meeting and felt better than I have getting ready to go in a long time.

I also stacked some wood and got things ready for the rain in a few days... Have been making some really nice fires and good healthy dinners...   This feels way more solid than any other time before...

Not all euphoric and not completely overwhelmed and falling apart... It's the perfect union of my life and spirit and mental state being in a healthy place or at least desiring that for a while now and the pieces have fallen in place for me to finally have that.   I'm so grateful!

thanks so much friends... i'm not out of the woods yet with needing a roommate by next month or so and also needing surgery on torn tendons in my R arm... but mentally and emotionally and physically in other area's... so much better.  Even walking the dogs today I felt normal with my energy level and that hasn't been the case in months.   amazing.

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1bravegirl
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2013, 01:15:00 AM »

I'm soo sorry Lost that you are experiencing this horrible drama.

I think the part of the lesson that can apply to you is not even reading the texts.  I know that the suicide issue is one that is very touchy and if you feel you need to address it, then maybe tactfully let a family member know?

But besides that, what's stopping you from changing your cell number? And if you need it to communicate, you may need to seriously set boundaries as to what is 'necessary things to ever talk about, via text or whatever... Besides that you don't read them.

Did you see that point?  If you keep reading them you keep engaging with the illnes/r/s and you cannot really detach.

You can just delete and not read and be at peace or at least more peace than this.  There is NO way you should ever entertain 96 texts and seeing photos of men and all that mess...

You have the power to control this and under 'breaking free from a pwBPD or ending the r/s... it has so many good points about what you are dealing with and it starts with us... the non's.

We cannot allow them to keep us living in fear or feeding their sick way of thinking.  You got this friend...    just hit delete... .    and await the divorce for real finality.   
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1bravegirl
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2013, 01:28:30 AM »

Hi all...

Hi GreenMango... .  No thoughts on my new insight and appreciation for what I am really starting to understand?  I wanted to hear your feedback... no pressure... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I had another lovely day.  It feels almost as good as it did when I first moved up here 2 1/2 yrs ago but more balanced.

I feel very relieved and content here in my home especially now that i've cleaned it all up and have it smelling so good... Like Pier ONE candles, lighting fires and enjoying the relaxing environment and feeling like i'm in charge of my life again.

I actually woke up feeling really good, got myself ready to go to my Christian meeting and that hasn't happened in a while.  I go but not without a lot of struggling, feeling dizzy and just never feeling well.

Not today.  I have to feel that it is the removal of the intense pressure and anxiety I had been living under.  It did a number on me bigtime.

So after my meeting, took my dog and neighbor dog to the dogpark and had a nice hike, came home and cleaned a little more and ate a good healthy dinner, baked chicken, brown rice and peas... had yogurt for dessert... .  and I am now wrapping it up with this post...  

Work tomorrow... one of two days for the week and I have a feeling I am going to feel much better there than I have felt since I started 2 weeks ago.  Talk about a struggle...    

I have my coffee ready to go and I am ready to go beddy bye... .  

So the only thing I have left to ponder over is our car insurance.  I made the same mistake 'again' and put him on my insurance since he let his lapse and didn't have any at all!

So I'm hoping I can just cancel the policy but if they give me grief I'll be on here asking for suggestions as to how to address this as safely as possible.  Last time they wouldn't even allow me to cancel it or take him off unless he called them personally but that was a different company... .  It will work out.

I'm still feeling some disappointment at times... .    and feelings of light sadness...    it's so natural. befor he left I had the urge to hug on him and really show him love but never had the chance... stonewalled me too often.  So those feelings are history but I'm still realistic enough to know this is still going to be a process. it wont be all 'great day's every day and i'm ready to feel whatever I have to in order to keep my life in my control and keep praying that he will be successful and safe in whatever he is doing.  That feels good to feel like I want to do that for him... It helps me feel more like myself and not all angry and resentful.  I like that.   More maturity I'm feeling at this point.  yay... .  
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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2013, 01:45:22 PM »

Such joy! I am happy for you, bg. You have a big heart and a great spirit. Thank you for sharing this change in your life. I hope your

health shows signs of improvement with your freedom.
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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2013, 02:44:51 PM »

Brave girl. As of now she is living in my home. I had it long before we married. Divorce about three weeks off. If I do not respond she shows at my apartment or work. I am in a high profile position and this creates an added dimension in difficulty. I try and keep it necessary only but I think what you are saying- and I am recognizing is that I am perpetuating the problem. So much guilt and want to fix it I guess. She is in a bad spot. Desperate. Yet I can't remotely move on as she has declined to let me go. Sent a text last night saying she will last for a continuance and will not sign divorce papers. She says I am mean as I have refused to meet or talk on phone. Keeping everything text or email in case needed. I'm glad things are looking up for you. Fortunate he seems willing to let u go. Thanks for the insight. Every little bit helps.
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1bravegirl
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2013, 10:22:14 PM »

Gosh Lost... I'm soo sorry you are having to deal with that mess. Geesh...  Too much... So why all the text's?  Just about not wanting to get a D?  Even if you ignore them and she show's up, what's the worst thing that can happen? It can't keep happening forever right?  I was exactly where your at 3 yrs ago and had to let my yes mean yes and play some serious hardball.

My ex did that , showing up at my workplace, waiting for my by the freeway...   hiding in my bushes by my house...  crazy stuff! and it was after I had him removed from our home in 2009 right after my mom died and he was not happy.  And if I didn't respond to them, just like you... he'd show up at my front door. So I felt like my back was against the wall.  The calls and texts were relentless and I ended up having to get a restraining order since I was getting so emotionally ill and couldn't even function.

The order was awarded and he was not able to contact me at all.But guess what?  They don't know how to respect any boundaries with us since we've never managed to creat any so they will keep coming...   and then we call the police.

I had the r/o approved and the next day! he called me and I had to file a police report. 

He went to jail and then he did it again!  Waiting for my on my way to work by the turn off...   I had to call police and he went to jail again!

3 times was a charm when he was stalking me in the bushes!

I was so messed up emotionally and was so scared! I didn't know what his frame of mind was like, if he wanted to kill me or hug me! I had not idea but knew I had to stick it out... and he went to jail that time for 50 days.

He had enough at that point and left me alone.

I was able to move 200 miles away and stayed on my own til I ended up calling him back after months of no contact at all. The rest as they say is history... .     

I even had a r/o once 10 yrs prior that was honored while we were still living together.  You have rights Lost... and you willB be able to change your board name too! Because you won't be LOST any longer.

You have to take the bull by the horns and make this situation one you can live with.  If she comes to your job then you call the police and that will be the end of it.  Once you have things on record then you're able to get a R/O much easier, especially now with all the deaths from spousal / domestic violence with ending r/s.

I no I don't know all the in's and out's of your situation and only you know what is the safest and wisest course for you... .  But what I do know from dealing with the harshest stalking and call after call and so many horrible texts is this...  

This won't change until you make it happen.  How you do that is up to your discretion and better judgement but change is in your power to create and make this better for you...  at least better in the end.

They are the hardest people in the world to deal with when you are breaking free from them and they lose it so badly.  But, once you keep at it and show them your not backing down, they do start to accept and and start to find another means of support since you aren't it anymore.

It's so sad that it comes down to this but you cannot allow yourself to feel guilty for her illness.   They sense that in us and keep using it to their advantage.  They are very perceptive even though many times they read into tons of stuff that couldn't be further from the truth.

Once you allow yourself to be free of the guilt and the feeling that you are somewhat responsible for her and what happens to her, she will sense that and start to grow away from you... slowly but surely. But as long as you keep those painful thoughts knawing at your heart, she will surely play on them like a fiddle and suck every aspect of energy from it that she can.  

So please...  Remember that you can only be responsible for yourself and your personal actions.  She is an ADULT and even with this illness she has to figure this out and find a way to survive.  I never thought my exh would ever be ok and OMG>> as soon as I found the strength to cut him loose... He started to grow up.  Amazing... .  

So, it can happen but we have to allow it to and start to change our stinkin thinkin and give ourselves and them a chance at a better life.

Ok, i'm done ranting about that. Sorry... I just have so much empathy for what you are going thru right now remembering how painful that period was and how much I worried about him and if he'd be ok and my part in all of it.  And look where it got me...   He was willing to get some help 3 yrs ago but it wasn't enough.

I fell back in the same pattern with him 2 more times after that and it got worse and I became more sick with each attempt to backtrack.

Our body and mind knows when something is so detrimental to our health and we will have all the signs and symptoms to stay far away from the person that is making us feel so sick and exhausted.  I know for myself, this is day 3 and I am amazed how much I am able to get done.  I feel kinda mentally wasted but I'm still singing and staying very active and I basically gutted the whole house and it's soo clean and looks so pretty.   The fire is blazing in the livingroom the way I like it and the house is spotless and the homemade beef barley soup on the stove is Da Bomb!  and I am chillin like a villian with a very warm house and warm tummy but my heart is a bit sad... .  as it should be right now I suppose right?

I have so much to share with someone.  I was hoping it could be my husband but that ship sailed long ago and I know this so it's just the hope of being with someone to enjoy things with and since we married 'them' our mind keeps going back to that place of wanting that happiness and what do ya know? There they are again in our mind as the person filling that void but it can never be them. Never!

So we have to allow ourselves to see this reality and really understand that.  It cannot be with them and that was a dream.  Our reality is learning to live alone and heal and give ourselves time to be whole again so we can have a real r/s with someone who isn't out to sabotage us or turn on us in a blink of an eye... .  all the traits that pwBPD have are vicious and we aren't capable of enduring that forever without having some very deep and serious wounds, physically and especially emotionally.

I feel a bit dreary today; could be the weather changint too. Tomorrow we'll have snow here and yesterday it was 64. Go figure. So its kinda like our r/s history with them.  One day it can be warm and out of nowhere...  cold as ice.  Who can keep up with that?  Not me...

I will keep reminding myself that when I start to feel sad or think about things from a very unrealistic mindset and just feel it and let it go... .  

I pray that you can find a way to progressively do the same and start to enjoy the little time we have here to have happiness and live in the moments of good health and relative peace while we can.

Much love and strength sent to you friend.  Sincerely 1bg
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1bravegirl
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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2013, 10:56:06 PM »

I have ran the gamut of life.   I have been around the block a few times... .  in the world of BPD and mental illness at it's finest and it has really done a number on me.

I see that now, as before I didn't really appreciate just how much of an impact that way of life was having on me.  I was resilent or so I thought...    but eventually it kicked my butt bad.

I suppose 25 yrs of crazy will make even the strongest person weak in the knee's eventually... and I was no exception.

I am now at the tailend of riding this train and I am barely jumping off before it drove right off the tracks into a deep canyon.  Total destruction was most likely right around the corner and I knew in my gut I had to jump off one more time.

I was allowed that chance on Friday when exh decided that he would be the one to leave for the 3rd time in about 3 1/2 yrs and boy was I releaved it wasn't me again!

He left the first time. (not by choice.Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... men in blue uniforms helped him pack that time... )  I left the 2nd time and now he's gone for the last time.

It has been a progressive journey to freedom and one that has left me feeling pretty banged up.  I still have this aching in my heart.  Is it for him?  is it for me?  Is it for my loss of naivity?  I can't claim ignorance any longer cuz I'm well versed in crazy making now.

I can practically smell it a mile away... But does that stop me from engaging in it? Not always...

So what's my job now?  To find out how to grieve and understand what's normal at this point.  Is anything about this time period going to even remotely resemble anything normal? I hardly doubt it.

How can it when our r/s was so out of the norm.  Not a very loving one, and the walls that went up were so cold at times. You felt like a serious enemy without any defense. You'd showed your capture all your cards and they made sure to remind you of that and any other mistake you had made.

What a painful way to live.  Being reminded of every tiny thing you've done wrong in order for the other person to feel better about himself.  Man, that really stung.  Even though I know better, I know it wasn't reality for me, maybe for him but even now i'm cleaning my house and telling myself... "see, I knew I wasn't a pig or a hoarder... look how clean my house is now that he's gone... "  Like I have to somehow convince myself that what he said was a false statment.

How sad is that.  Obviously he finally got in my head alittle too much but it took some doing. And now it will take some doing to get him out.

I have a T appt in about 2 weeks and will make sure to get there 'regularly' until I get a grip on this a bit more firmly and see things the way I should view them. Not from his opinionated state or from my warped state of what I think reality was, but what the truth is and what the actual situation is.    It's pretty complex really.

I know it is such a mixed bag of emotions and I have been all over the place and struggling to be whole for quite sometime now.  I allowed myself to regress again and it will just take time to get it togetha...

I have faith and confidence in myself that I will be successful but some days will be harder than others.  I will allow myself to feel those days and not be hard on myself for having them.  I've had enough hard day's to last a lifetime and feeling sorry for him or me is not the answer nor does it help anyone or anything.

I am looking forward to seeing the progress in my life 'finally' while I grasp ahold of the truth for once and allow myself to keep living by it. And nothing else! No more falling back into my convenient 'dreamworld' of events that ends up being anything but!@ convenient.

Just thinkin out loud... .  
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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2013, 11:22:58 PM »

It's hard to step aside from the traumatic events and look at the relationship with perspective.  Looking at our role takes some emotional distance.

What do you think you'd like to work on for inventory?
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« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2013, 03:24:16 AM »

 

Will write soon - not been too well with some issues with D23 as well. Been thinking about you. You do sound much more together than you have been. Take care of your health!

Love Rose
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« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2013, 04:58:10 AM »

 I still have this aching in my heart.  Is it for him?  is it for me?  Is it for my loss of naivity?  I can't claim ignorance any longer cuz I'm well versed in crazy making now.

Given experience from my marriage to my son's father; a man who thought himself aspergers (because son had been diagnosed but he is NOT upon re-evaluation) and whom I had thought to be OCPD/NPD... .  Personality disordered (his mother is schizophrenic/psychotic we believe) I can tell you a little about the process that I experienced.

DENIAL: he was a christian man, how could he be abusive? (In your case, looking at the years of marriage and seeing it "as a waste" to have been treated and trying to HAVE relationship with him) This took me a period of about 7 years, on and off until I concluded that he WAS abusive. Of course, while I was still living with him... .  denial had to be broken to separate from him, for me... .  for you, you might have been very aware and was "into" dealing with your grief of loss; that occurred twice before and would again, ONE LAST TIME... .  

GRIEF over loss of relationship, loss of "family", loss of DREAMS... .  this was BIG for me. I did not miss HIM but I "missed" the relationship, the security, the financial comfort, etc. I grieved over the "loss" of my naivete and my own ignorance (is bliss isn't it?) at the realization that I could no longer live that way. I had dreams within the relationship with this man... .  they were shattered. My dreams of "being" and "doing" the things that I loved

PERSONAL GROWhat the heck: Taking MORE responsibility to TAKE CARE of myself when I was "conditioned" to let him "be my head" (leader, boss, spiritual authority) and working out my spiritual perspective and renewed understanding. Like you said, you will no longer let his "opinionated state" or your "warped state of mind" run your life... .  good for you~.

Excerpt
So what's my job now?  To find out how to grieve and understand what's normal at this point.  Is anything about this time period going to even remotely resemble anything normal? I hardly doubt it.--------- I have a T appt in about 2 weeks and will make sure to get there 'regularly' until I get a grip on this a bit more firmly and see things the way I should view them. Not from his opinionated state or from my warped state of what I think reality was, but what the truth is and what the actual situation is.    It's pretty complex really.

 Smiling (click to insert in post) You answered your own questions... .  you are doing that alot and just don't recognize it... .  yet. It will get better and your confidence in what you now (and what you look back to see, then) as reality will become clearer.

Excerpt
I have faith and confidence in myself that I will be successful but some days will be harder than others.  I will allow myself to feel those days and not be hard on myself for having them.  I've had enough hard day's to last a lifetime and feeling sorry for him or me is not the answer nor does it help anyone or anything.



I think that you have a REALLY healthy stance here... .  I realized that I was healing from the relationship (an epiphany really) from my marriage to my son's father when I "no longer pitied myself"... .  I saw myself as deserving respect instead of a woman "who was disrespected"... .  my view point was TURNED from looking AT my abuser (or pwpd) to LOOKING AT MYSELF and what I needed and deserved FROM myself. I deserved to RESPECT myself and when I started doing that... .  the relationship became more and more clear and more and more abusive and I became more confident to "say NO" to abuse and all of the entrapments that kept me in it.

  
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« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2013, 11:47:52 AM »

Wow. I can't imagine. I never knew that I could choose to not be with a person but that person could say to me that I had no choice but to remain with them. Even though I moved out-under the dark of night at christmas-and to a new apartment she is still present. Says that she will constantly be reminding me of herself until the divorce. She is wanting to go inpatient for treatment(undiagnosed right now), and she wants me to wait for her. Just so much destruction I am not inclined to do so. She also knows, I think, that if she is inpatient then the divorce may be post poned. She is not working and I don't think she is ready to. I just want it over. She says if I think she will just disappear that I am sorely mistaken. Occassionally she gets rational and realizes just how crazy this is. As quickly as the rational presents-poof-it is gone again. I just want peace. I have two wonderful daughters from a previous marriage who deserve peace. They want me happy. They have had enough drama. For background. Over christmas my kids were supposed to be with me. I was still in house with my soon to be ex. I had filed for divorce. We decided to keep things calm over holidays and work things out later for the sake of the kids. She has two as well. However one day she was upset with me. She told me that when my kids arrived she would show them the divorce papers. She would explain to them that I was kicking her and her kids out of the house. Said her goal was to make my kids suffer the way she and hers had been suffering at my hands. At that point I knew I had to end the marriage. With no turning back. Of course now that I am out she is realizizng what she has done. I am now the best man she has ever known, itc. She is now willing to go to treatment to not lose me. I am just not willing anymore. She told me that she would tell my kids all I had done to her. What a monster their dad is. She would "expose" me for the evil man I am. At that point I was willing to face the onslaught and distortion to be free. Just too much. Lots more that was just final straw.
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« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2013, 02:10:00 PM »

WOW... .  Real Lady:

You pretty much encapsulated my process of events over the past 3 to 4 yrs.

I have been doing exactly that.  Each time I withdrew from him and the r/s and was able to finally stand up for myself, the first time being in April of 2009 when I filed a move out order and R/O and had him removed (2 mos prior to that he had strangled me in a state of enduced drug abuse and my mom was dying in a coma... ) and had detached probably a year earlier due to all the abusive behavior.

Talk about walking on eggshells. I couldn't have a fan on, couldn't have the air conditioner in the window when it was 100 outside.

I would put the air conditioners in the windows and before he came home, pull them out... (big ole suckers!) I'd have them back outside and dry up the water even on the ground!

That's how sick I was. Then finally one day I said...  "Oh Hell NO!" Idea  I'm done living this craziness.  What's the worst that can happen?  I'll get another migraine and here him rant and scream for a while.

Well He came home and I was in bed with the air conditioner blowing right on me and he had a fit!  due to money so he said...  Pulled it out of the window and controlled the situation or so he thought.

I told him right then I was done with his madness and I was SICK YOU IDIOT!  and couldn't do hot weather! But he didn't care...  He finally backed off some but I saw right there that when I was able to stand up to him, he did back off some.  

Of course he apologized and blamed it all on the pressure from his job but the damage was done.  I never played that game again... pull the air conditioner out... put it back in... then ya take it out; then ya put it in... boomp boomp...  then ya put it in, then ya take it out... boom boom...  

Nope... didn't want to play that tune no longer... plus my back was KILLING me... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

So long story very short...  my mom got sick within that time period and I couldn't call the police the week she was dying and he attacked me.  I wanted to but said... No... .  I will not allow you to rob me of the little time I have left with her.

He was so removed from the situation emotionally and to what I was doing he didn't even understand that she was comatosed.   He said... Get your mom on the phone so she can talk some sense into you!   I said...  You just don't get it... She will never be able to talk to me again! She's in a semi coma now and day's away from death.

We didn't talk much that period...  and just a few months later he was removed from the home.  He didn't allow me to have any peace of mind that time and stalked me something terrible to the point I had to put him in Jail 3 times... He did not understand a boundary to save his life. literally...

So finally after the 3rd arrest he got 50 days and he finally got the message.  :)o you know how hard that was to keep sticking to my gun's like that and fighting with DA's at the courthouse to make the violations stick and give him jailtime?  That last time they were just about to release him on a MOnday after he'd been in there since Friday and something told me to go to the courthouse and see what is happening.

I ended up being told he was not being charged, (with stalking me on the freeway and chasing me down the street giving me a freaking heartattack! I don't care if it was just to talk! How do I know?) and because I called 911 and they told me it would be a while before I had a policeman arrive, that I should just go to work and file after work.

So I did just that and filed the report the next day since I was soo drained from that experience.

Well because I didn't make it a dire concern and stick around the moment it happened (cause they told me to go to work.) they were going to release him.

I asked to speak with the DA that was incharge and ended up talking to about 3 of them and reasoned with them as to why that happened...

And said... How would you react if it was your daughter and this happened... So what if ive been dealing with this for 20 yrs... Everyone has a breaking point don't they?  I am following thru with this R/O and I need you to protect me and help me send the right message here! If you release him now what will stop him from breaking the order next time? huh? huh?

So they immediately went to the judge and said they were filing charges and he got 50 days mandatory.

What a victory thata day was for me and I've journaled it all on the legal board here on this website for anyone to read about...  mid to end of 2009...

Talk about running on Adrenaline...  :)ad, stepDad and Mom all die of cancer within 13 months, i'm the primary caretaker...  then all of this happens a few  mos after the last one dies...

Then I move out of a huge house by myself to the ghetto with 2 large dogs and 4 cats in tow...

Then I move up here to the mountains with help from friends from congregation in the largest UHaul ever...  and still had to leave stuff behind.

And I was so happy here... snow, bears, mountain lions... deers in my yard daily.  Eurphoria was blissful and real... .  

But it was not to last cuz I hadn't grown up yet or dealt with the real issues... How could I, with all the drama filled adventure filling my days...

So about 7 or 8 mos into my new life exh starts calling and ultimately I emailed him and before i knew it he was packed up and at my stinkin door!

Then we moved into here...  and it was horribly controlling, so I moved out on the little adrenaline I had left 12/12 to a horrible situation only to be in povery and see my beloved cat of 20 yrs die and my beautiful Husky die next...

He finally left this house realizing i wasn't giving in and I came back in July...  Here we are in Feb... and I allowed myself to open up to him one last time this past Sept...  going to see HIM mind you... out of sheer  madness and really really unstable health.

He moved in without even letting me know he was packing... again and for the past 4 month neither one of us had been able to get thru each other's barriers... so crazy.

So we were basically bad roommates and now I'm by myself thinking back on all I've done in order to detach and how It may of finally just paid off...

For not just me but for him too... You see the last time he left here. July 12 to Oct 12, he didn't contact me one time... was working and moving on with his life.  I ... I! opened up the can of worms again by contacting him and that's all it took 'again' cuz that's what we do right?

Well now we both know that it isn't what we do any longer and he left this time with a look on his face of relief and determination to just finally move on and I get it

I have the same look and determination.
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« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2013, 02:26:18 PM »

I understand but what's stopping you from filing R/O and stopping the contact unless it's pertaining to the children and/or letting the family court know what she's threatening?

I'm hoping you have all of this posted on the legal board cuz you do have rights to protect yourself and your children and you may need to jump thru a few hoops but whats worse?  This or learning to manuever the system?

I learned the system thru the help of the legal board and learned how to get him removed, get the r/o and move out order and move on with my life.  Talk about madness...

But it has been a process of my own to learn how to rely on myself solely and realize that there is no 'us' or a person or significant other that I can count on to ever truly support or help me so what am I doing here?

I am it...   as far as our r/s goes and you know that too.  She's working on your heart strings and will keep doing such until you say 'enough' and allow her to grow up.  And yourself as well.

Get your children out of that mess and cut your losses... .  
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« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2013, 04:11:22 PM »

Hi 1BG,

Your home in the mountains sounds like paradise. I can almost see you making bacon and eggs for the dogs and kitties. It sounds so cozy and sunny. With everything you have been through you really deserve some relaxation in a happy place like that. It sounds so romantic to me, baking chicken, homemade soup, a fire blazing, stacking wood, and getting things ready for the rain. Or snow.

I liked the image of your animals looking perplexed. And I like the way Green Mango is telling you to do your homework. And what GM said about emotional immaturity, hm, maybe I should apply that to myself. The question you asked yourself ('WHY?" have I chosen to be stuck in such misery and unhappiness for so long?) is also a good one to ask myself. My BPD-relationship was short compared to yours, almost three years. But right before that I had a ten year relationship with someone who got more and more depressed and frustrated about his job, politics etc., raged about everything that was wrong and unfair in the world from morning till night, and who got very angry with me because I was the only person he had to get angry with, especially if I just didn't want to listen anymore. Should have gotten out of that relationship sooner also.

I can understand you reconnected with your ex when you weren't doing well. At the moment I'm doing great, like you, happy in my apartment I bought a couple of years ago. Alone for the first time since I bought it – I locked out my BPDxbf six weeks ago. Some cleaning, reorganizing, buying things and putting my own stuff on his shelves made it feel completely mine. For the first time in my life I baked cookies. It's really feels like a safe place now I'm here alone. But if something really bad happened, an illness like you or a death in the family, it's not entirely impossible I would just want to forget everything my ex did and everything I've learned, call him to get him back and spoon (I taught him to spoon even when he hated me so I could get more sleep). The idea of that feels so safe in my mind, although realistically it's safer when I'm alone. Well, you see, your thread made me think. Thanks for that and for those happy images. I don't usually eat bacon and eggs but you made it sound so good I think I'm going to buy it tomorrow.

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« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2013, 06:22:30 PM »

my kids live with their mom. Recently moved states. So they are out of harms way. I moved out Christmas. So kids are no longer exposed to her. I just went down last weekend for visitation and stbexw ranted and raved that I went to see my ex wife. Just made a big stink. She hasn't gotten picture that I am done with her. She still wants control. And what is odd is that I still am conscious of what I say. What I do. Where I go because of fear. I have a R/O.  Hasn't been necessary to enforce but with her recent uptick in activity I may have no choice. My basic problem has been fear of the fallout as I am semi well known and in a high profile position. Could be very detrimental so I have tried to placate her and ease away. Not working. I am very afraid of her behavior when she senses I have rejected her. I can relate to the part of your post referring to captor spewing venom and bringing up every wrong u have committed. And moreover the ones u didn't that they perceive u did. My stbex may text suggestive sexual notions to a "friend". But if I said hi to a woman I had likely bedded her repeatedly. Even if I had never met the lady. She has selective memory. Remembers my every transgression while forgetting that 90% of them came after her provocation.  I hope you remain strong. With a clean home. Yes I find myself proving things to me as well. Sanity and peace are gathering a more prominent role in my thinking. Just a matter of what it may take to get it.
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« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2013, 08:30:17 PM »

Hey guy's...

I didn't want to forget to say Hi!   to you Rose... and thank's so much for chiming in. I hope things are easing up some with your d and you'll be able to talk abit more and have more peace of mind. Thinking of you... Tell Hubster hi for me...  

And i'm not sure if I said... "Thank you so much Go fish... that was a very nice compliment and I really appreciate the love and support."

Hi GM... You have the best thought provoking questions... .  What do I feel is appropriate to focus on now as far as personal inventory?

Well, everything I have been realizing about myself and my situation and what it is I have to personally overcome to not allow my mind to feel that somehow, when things get really rough on my own or I start to panic about my finances or my health (growing older alone... ) that running back to him or even thinking I can receive any kind of emotional support or even monetary support is so futile and absolutely counter productive in every sense of the word.

I have now found that out through the 'school of hard knocks' by personally putting my hand on the stove to keep remembering... .  yep, still hot!  Looser! But not entirely as long as we keep applying the lesson's we are learning. Some take a bit longer than others to get the full gist of how impractical it is to keep returning to the so called way of convenience or what we feel we're used to in order to avoid the uncomfortableness of change.

But change is really a good thing when you compare it to living that pattern of abuse and unhappiness again and again and again.

So I will keep focusing on my personal growth and like was brought out... put the focus and my energy on myself now in order to allow that r/s to become a thing of the past and really let myself move on.

Leaf,  You're scaring me with that comment about 'if things get too difficult." Please...   read my own words above and remember it will only get harder. It's a huge smokescreen for any real truth.

It is a way we can avoid having to look deep inside of us to really turn the figurative corner and firmly say to ourselves...   NO!@ I'm worth so much more than that.

You know that he will only use the fact that you see yourself as having any personal weakness, enough to need him again, as a tool to use against you and control the situation even more.

That's what happened this time.  It kinda worked in my favor though... Just like in lost's situation.  He told me the only satisfaction he'd have this time when he left is 'knowing your going to suffer!' since he felt I was such a basket case and so unhealthy, struggling to even work basically 1 to 2 days a week.

Well of course I was...   I had to deal with the worst tension and controlling environment that made me an emotional wreck.  He's been gone since Friday and even healthwise, I see such a difference already!

I actually went to the snow today with my dog and the neighbor dog and ran with them at the lake and played in like 8 inches of snow... barely got home... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  But I'm adventurous like that when I am being true to my spirit and this is as true and real as it gets...

I had to remove myself from the situation in order to be able to start to thrive again and even function really... forget thinking about thriving... but this soon I feel like i'm starting to thrive in my healing.   I'm amazed at the transformation i'm personally feeling.

I have my house looking so good...     the fire is so relaxing and I too hardly ever eat bacon and eggs. That stuff was in there cuz he bought it...   but it sounded good and it was... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

And now we are relaxing after a hard day of playing in the snow...   The soup was still so yummy... See! I knew I could cook...     Hadn't had the opportunity in soo long.

This is what i'm talking about. last time I moved up here alone, I had no motivation to really cook for myself or feel together enough to do more than one or two things. Hike with dogs and do a few chores...    

But now I see the total picture and how I can manage it and be ok.

It's so weird how it's all in your perception about how you view the situation.  If it feels hard or you tell yourself, i'll never be able to get free of him or her without so much pain... then that's exactly what it will be like...

SInce I have been attempting to keep it positive for the last few breakups, the spirit has been willing but the flesh wasn't strong enough.

And now the total package is coming together.  It's all in how you view things and eventually it will happen for you and come together the way you have been seeing it in your mind's eye.

You've heard the saying."if you can dream it, you can achieve it... " ?

Well, its kinda the same with freeing ourselves from the pattern or the chaos of the BPD r/s.  We get accustomed to the abuse, the texting, the disrespect, the this , the that... and we don't remember to love ourselves in the process. We forget what real love and respect even look like so we can live with ourselves really.

So it has to be about respectful boundaries and keeping them for us and eventually they will get the message, whether they like it or agree with it or not. It won't be our issue any longer because we've chosen to let them have it back without it affecting us any longer.

WE choose that see? We've chosen to remain engaged with them up to a certain point and we have to re-evaluate that process and completely disengage from them. 

Lost, if you have a R/O then you're allowing things to happen the way I did for a while also.  If you have an order then any type of contact must and should be reported to the authorities and make a police report.  I allowed some things to slip through the cracks at first and then the message was, "I am not being firm with any boundaries and this r/o is a joke."

So that's why they keep hounding us and doing what they do.

If you have a high profile job, even more of a reason to lay the law down and send that firm message once and for all. Something is stopping you beside's the job worry.  I feel it in your words... You are worried about her and how it will ultimately affect her life.

That's where this is killing you.  We fall into that trap and what happens is, we end up hurting them even more.  WE not only set ourselves up for failure but also we stifle the growth that they too could be experiencing by allowing them to still engage with us in the disfunction.  It really is in your hands to control this and be done with it. You just have to make up your mind and do it. And let the pieces fall where they will. It can only go on for so long before they have no other choice but to move on and that's exactly what they do.  But we have to make the decision to move on first with them. It's just part of the disorder and codependency that keeps them hanging on for dear life if we let them.   

Oh my goodness...   Leaf... You are so kind to feel the love here and see things so clearly.  You're right... It is so nice and peaceful and my animals are such lovey's ...   My dog is still looking sad missing his daddy but he will adjust.    I'm showing him extra love and attention and the trip to the snow today was da bomb!  So we'll be ok...

I'm so tired now... lovin ya guys but my fire is going out and so is my brain.Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Much love and strength sent to all of ya's!

1bg
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« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2013, 09:03:54 PM »

I am taking personal inventory and so far like what I see and feel.  I have been feeling so much better in a matter of days here by myself and the inner growth has massive potential. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I have more energy than i've seen inside myself for quite some time.

I woke up to the most beautiful white snow filling the neighborhood that I just thanked God and got ready to go play in it!

Got the neighbor dog with my own doggie and up to the higher elevation we went!

Went to the lake and had a blast.  It was the first time my new doggie friend had ever even been in the snow so he was loving life. He's a golden pitbull, so pretty and a great disposition.

So now I am relaxing by the fire and so thankful to be alive and well.  I know I have a journey of some sort ahead of me but I welcome it with great anticipation and excitement.  I have to!

Because the other choice is to worry and be afraid of it and I won't allow that way of thinking to be an option.  

I have done enough painful thinking at this point and it's time to keep it all positive and allow positive things to come to me in return.
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GreenMango
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« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2013, 09:11:32 PM »

Excerpt
Hi GM... You have the best thought provoking questions... .  What do I feel is appropriate to focus on now as far as personal inventory?

Well, everything I have been realizing about myself and my situation and what it is I have to personally overcome to not allow my mind to feel that somehow, when things get really rough on my own or I start to panic about my finances or my health (growing older alone... ) that running back to him or even thinking I can receive any kind of emotional support or even monetary support is so futile and absolutely counter productive in every sense of the word.

I have now found that out through the 'school of hard knocks' by personally putting my hand on the stove to keep remembering... .  yep, still hot!  Looser! But not entirely as long as we keep applying the lesson's we are learning. Some take a bit longer than others to get the full gist of how impractical it is to keep returning to the so called way of convenience or what we feel we're used to in order to avoid the uncomfortableness of change.

But change is really a good thing when you compare it to living that pattern of abuse and unhappiness again and again and again.

So I will keep focusing on my personal growth and like was brought out... put the focus and my energy on myself now in order to allow that r/s to become a thing of the past and really let myself move on.

1bg I think each one of us has to identify and define the things we could work on.  Good way to start on the leaving board is with these lessons: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

-Each of the four lessons have a set of questions at the end that members can answer.  Maybe consider do a thread for each lessons and answering the questions that require us to dig a little deeper.

I noticed that you've identified you get scared when heading out on your own and you've returned to the relationship when it happens, maybe that's something to work with.

If you look through those lessons, which areas are you struggling with or think would be a good place to start?

-----

For you other members posting in this thread and anyone reading who's been in a domestic violence situation... .  man or woman.  Please take a look at the links below.

The ways to appropriately handle domestic violence situations can vary a bit from male to female.  If you have any questions please contact any of the staff.

For men -  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

For women -  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61403.0

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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2013, 09:29:18 PM »

Thank you for the links, GM,

I am in total agreement on it being a very individualized journey and process that each of us has to identify and address.  And particularly the aspect of any type of domestic violence.

I unfortunately experienced that for the first 5 years of our marriage very very badly and it still showed it's ugly head, but not to the severity as before.

The verbal abuse was another story.   That was relentless and the mind games and controlling issues that were at best his way of trying to sabotage things to feel he had a grip on the situation.

He never really did and he knew that.  It was just a matter of me coming to terms with when and how I would find my way out of this mess.

If he was willing to look at his behavior and seek help for his disorder, I was willing to support him and work with him in order to preserve our marriage but that was not something he could dedicate himself to.  It probably was just too painful for him to experience due to so much ugliness and hurtful tendencies.

Not quite sure really the full extent of his woes but we know they were very deep.

But now it's my turn.  The attention will be on me and continual growth.

I am looking forward to working on the lessons GM. Thanks again...
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« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2013, 10:03:07 PM »

  1bravegirl,

It's been awhile, nice to see you back AND with the good/brave news that you've ended it again but on your own terms! He's gone and you have a chance at building your life back again... .  that's gotta be invigorating! I'm sending you big hugs and hope you keep us posted on how you're doing... .  

PS I've very glad you have the dogs!
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« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2013, 10:26:01 PM »

Thank you for the links, GM,

I am in total agreement on it being a very individualized journey and process that each of us has to identify and address.  And particularly the aspect of any type of domestic violence.

I unfortunately experienced that for the first 5 years of our marriage very very badly and it still showed it's ugly head, but not to the severity as before.

The verbal abuse was another story.   That was relentless and the mind games and controlling issues that were at best his way of trying to sabotage things to feel he had a grip on the situation.

He never really did and he knew that.  It was just a matter of me coming to terms with when and how I would find my way out of this mess.

If he was willing to look at his behavior and seek help for his disorder, I was willing to support him and work with him in order to preserve our marriage but that was not something he could dedicate himself to.  It probably was just too painful for him to experience due to so much ugliness and hurtful tendencies.

Not quite sure really the full extent of his woes but we know they were very deep.

But now it's my turn.  The attention will be on me and continual growth.

I am looking forward to working on the lessons GM. Thanks again...

It's important to "own our part" too 1bg. 

This last round with your husband you mentioned you pursued him, and being cold with him upon his return.  Is it possible that neither of your behavior changed in this last recycle and that it was both of you together not doing things differently that is part of the demise of the relationship?  Was your husband abusing you again this time around or was it the dynamic of you guys beating each-other up emotionally?

To have a different outcome we have to start to do things differently.

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« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2013, 12:07:41 AM »

Thanks so much sabine for the welcome... .  

I have my one dog... my Husky died in September... or was it August... it was brutal.  So devastating... I have my big shepherd/retriever dog that looks like a big bear and I have somewhat 'adopted' the orphan pit bull from next door. Poor thing had never even been out of his 10x20 enclosure, never went to a dogpark, a walk! anything... NOthing!  Now he walks/hikes with us every day and today got the surprise of his life... Snow... And lot s of it!

He's not fixed so it's kinda hard at times... He pee's waaay too much.  I've asked if I can keep him but they won't let him go even though he get absolutely NO attention from them at all.  So I just keep lovin on him daily... My dog and he get along well too.

Hi GM.

You are somewhat right about the dynamics being the same on both levels.  I had tried to explain to him so many times that if there ever was a time when the abuse returned and I felt threatened or not comfortable in my own home,he would have to agree to get therapy or stay in therapy in order for us to be successful at any reunion. He happily agreed and it fell short the first month back.  That was the second go round...

This last time I did call him and went to see him while seeing my Dr 200 miles away and also said if we were to embark on anything we would need to give it time. (not remembering that he didn't really respect boundaries like that... ) and ended up packing like 2 days later after I specifically said 'I need more time" and called me after he emptied his storage unit and was on his way...

Due to being so frail from my health being so jacked up and not having the backbone or not really knowing if it was the only thing I could of done at that time, or the lesser of two evils, I just allowed it to happen.  I really felt my back was against the wall and didn't have the energy to fight it.  I had noone to blame but myself.

So I figured, we'll make the best of it, he did say he would be loving and we'd do things differently, but without therapy and a solid gameplan, we see where that got us.

I wasn't cold to him until the controlling began and I was reduced to having all my belongings in my room as he ran the house. 

I did express to him how this was so counterproductive to me feeling any type of security and how could I feel close to him with this type of environment.  I would express my true feelings when I seen his blatant refusal to do anything to help the situation.

so It wasn't as if I was cold from the getgo... It wasn't even a matter of me being cold.  I was just letting him know what his abusive behavior was doing to me and how I couldn't last under these conditions for long. And his response was... "You're crazy!@  It's all your hormones... I'm the same person i've always been... "  Yeah, that's kinda the problem bud... .  

so it was another head banger that I didn't have the stamina for and let him know... I didn't feel the attachment to him/ I mean how could i without anything changing and actually going back to square one. 

Last time he at least put on a front of wanting to try... to seek counseling... had been in it on his own for a year or 2 and then came home and nothing.

so I did call him and let him know I was not thinking right and I was scared and I didn't say come home!@! He chose that route, not me.

I asked him to please address his depression and his inability to work with me and he just told me to go to hell and he was doing nothihng of the sort.  So if that was me being mean or whatever... It wasn't my intention.  I told him I did love him but didn't feel the romantic feelings for him with the way he was acting.  The verbal abuse and cussing and being so rude and just mean  so mean to me and cutting me off not allowing me to express my heartfelt pain about my illness, was just unacceptable.   And he just didn't want to look at any of his part.  I was willing to look at mine and made a T appt with him here and asked him to do the same... and that's when he chose to start packing instead of go inside himself.

I could of done things differently in some ways, of course I see that but I was running on fumes and all the energy I had expended on trying to do things differently just to end up back at square one...   He seen black and I seen white. We were in two different worlds, and that's why I asked him to please give it time...   but I know he can't do that... N/C is there for a very good reason when you need to break off contact with a pwBPD.  I know this but I got weak or forgot to think it through...   This time is all about reflecting on all of that and then some.
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« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2013, 12:09:34 AM »

One more thing...   The lessons were so good.   the point I particularly enjoyed was this...

FREEDOM [Stage 5]: You've reached this stage when thinking about your loss (or the thing you desire) doesn't interfere with your normal feelings of well-being. Desire, fear, and hopelessness are deeply embedded in our psyches, and we feel their pull whenever any remnant of attachment exists. We know that we've begun to achieve real detachment in a situation when we can contemplate what's occurring without immediately getting blindsided by these feelings.

The fifth stage is a state of true liberation, which the sage Abhinavagupta describes as the feeling of putting down a heavy burden. It's no small thing. Every time we free ourselves from one of those sticky feelings, we unlock another link in what the yogic texts call the chain of bondage.


It just helped to solidify that there is a 'chain' of bondage that needs to be broken... and I had been breaking it a few links at a time...   but the progress was being made ever so slightly
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« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2013, 03:03:47 AM »

First thank you for answering my question.  I realize that these questions aren't always easy. 

You are somewhat right about the dynamics being the same on both levels.  I had tried to explain to him so many times that if there ever was a time when the abuse returned and I felt threatened or not comfortable in my own home,he would have to agree to get therapy or stay in therapy in order for us to be successful at any reunion. He happily agreed and it fell short the first month back.  That was the second go round...

When I asked about the reunion I was thinking, because this explains many of our experiences here, about this statement:

People select marriage partners who have the same level of emotional maturity. Emotional immaturity manifests in unrealistic needs and expectations.~Murray Bowens, MD

Many of us here can quickly point to our partners lack of it.  Yet we have it too.  If we didn't we wouldn't be getting ourselves involved with a person who exhibits such an array of dysfunctional or destructive behavior. 

Hindsight is great because we can look at the ways we had/have this emotional immaturity, unrealistic needs or expectations.

Excerpt
This last time I did call him and went to see him while seeing my Dr 200 miles away and also said if we were to embark on anything we would need to give it time. (not remembering that he didn't really respect boundaries like that... ) and ended up packing like 2 days later after I specifically said 'I need more time" and called me after he emptied his storage unit and was on his way...

Due to being so frail from my health being so jacked up and not having the backbone or not really knowing if it was the only thing I could of done at that time, or the lesser of two evils, I just allowed it to happen.  I really felt my back was against the wall and didn't have the energy to fight it.  I had noone to blame but myself.

For whatever reason, it happened.  You mentioned before that often times your fear of depending on yourself lead you back to him.  This isn't a judgment... .  many of us here continued our relationships based on a variety of fears.

This is where personal accountability is important.  What we allow and what we don't.  It's very easy to feel victimized, but looking back considering the part of allowing is it reasonable to see that the responsibility is shared - and not a victim situation.

It's a mutual lack of boundaries... .  on an aside this is something I found I needed quite a bit of work on when sifting through the rubble after it was over.

Excerpt
So I figured, we'll make the best of it, he did say he would be loving and we'd do things differently, but without therapy and a solid gameplan, we see where that got us.

I wasn't cold to him until the controlling began and I was reduced to having all my belongings in my room as he ran the house. 

I did express to him how this was so counterproductive to me feeling any type of security and how could I feel close to him with this type of environment.  I would express my true feelings when I seen his blatant refusal to do anything to help the situation.

As the staying board promotes, when attempting to get stability in a relationship of this kind it really takes a serious set of advanced communication tools, an attitude adjustment, boundaries, empathy and lots of emotional maturity. 

We can often make a relationship worse if we don't lead by example and work the "program" so to speak.

Excerpt
so It wasn't as if I was cold from the getgo... It wasn't even a matter of me being cold.  I was just letting him know what his abusive behavior was doing to me and how I couldn't last under these conditions for long. And his response was... "You're crazy!@  It's all your hormones... I'm the same person i've always been... "  Yeah, that's kinda the problem bud... .  

When we have a person with BPD in our lives being "cold" is going to trigger rejection anxiety.  His abusive behavior needed to be dealt with in a manner that approached it with value based boundaries for the relationship to have a shot in the dark.  If we get triggered by the behavior then it goes down hill.  Like a negative feeback loop.

1bg - Sometimes hormones can be pretty brutal too for a partner if these health issues are not attended to with care.  Being mindful of the things we are dealing with, like hormones or health problems, and attending to our own self care is integral in relationship and good emotional maturity.  It goes for both partners and establishes a framework for a healthier relationship.

Excerpt
so it was another head banger that I didn't have the stamina for and let him know... I didn't feel the attachment to him/ I mean how could i without anything changing and actually going back to square one. 

Last time he at least put on a front of wanting to try... to seek counseling... had been in it on his own for a year or 2 and then came home and nothing.

It's okay to be tapped out and to realize that "hey maybe I don't have the stamina" for a relationship with someone who struggles with mental illness.  In respect to therapy, one approach might have been to reassess your needs and bottom line expectations regarding the boundaries here - one's that are based on values, like a healthy relationship.  Then setting that as the standard for moving forward.

Sometimes we push forward without letting the person show us who they are or not accepting them as is in our haste to feel better or to satisfy our own unrealistic needs.  We can rush along instead of taking a step back to assess what exactly the implications our decisions could have... .  long term. 

Is it fair to say that maybe you proceeded on faith or hope?  And maybe this isn't working?

Excerpt
so I did call him and let him know I was not thinking right and I was scared and I didn't say come home!@! He chose that route, not me.

I asked him to please address his depression and his inability to work with me and he just told me to go to hell and he was doing nothihng of the sort.  So if that was me being mean or whatever... It wasn't my intention.  I told him I did love him but didn't feel the romantic feelings for him with the way he was acting.  The verbal abuse and cussing and being so rude and just mean  so mean to me and cutting me off not allowing me to express my heartfelt pain about my illness, was just unacceptable.   And he just didn't want to look at any of his part.  I was willing to look at mine and made a T appt with him here and asked him to do the same... and that's when he chose to start packing instead of go inside himself.

I don't believe it was any intention to being mean.  Broaching the subject of therapy and pointing out to our insecure partner they need help usually doesn't go well.  It's a subject where the sensitivity is heightened and handling it accordingly with some of the staying tools can grease a conversation like this, but they are still very difficult conversations to have.

Many times being the "lead" in the relationship takes being proactive.  We can wait til things escalate to the point where we are both triggering the crap out of each other.  Then there's the added element of the long history, sometimes the dynamic is cemented in from years of reinforcing each other's behavior - this is a very difficult pattern to break.

Excerpt
I could of done things differently in some ways, of course I see that but I was running on fumes and all the energy I had expended on trying to do things differently just to end up back at square one...   He seen black and I seen white. We were in two different worlds, and that's why I asked him to please give it time...   but I know he can't do that... N/C is there for a very good reason when you need to break off contact with a pwBPD.  I know this but I got weak or forgot to think it through...   This time is all about reflecting on all of that and then some.

I'm of the belief that if we hinge our detachment or healing on no contact that we are setting ourselves up to fail.  We can't control the actions of another... .  so if they call, email, or we see them in passing and we get brought back to step 1 in the grief process or the detachment stages no-contact isn't doing it's job.

Putting a time out using no-contact on the communication to gather our thoughts and get our feet underneath us, so we feel less emotionally vulnerable, is a great way to practice self-care and put ourselves first.

Detachment is a process, like with the yogic texts.  You mentioned Abhinavagupta and releasing the burden.  It's putting down or releasing the burden... .  it's the burden we picked up. 

What about the other stages of detachment?  What do you think about those?

There are quite a few helpful workshops and articles ... .  I was wondering if any of them spoke to you in a way that might be something to delve into more?


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