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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: she's a BPD sufferer , not a predator  (Read 5001 times)
HarmKrakow
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« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2013, 01:25:16 PM »

Interesting, Harm! The DSMV and the DSMIV have different criteria for BPD. I was looking at IV. I note as well that even in V, there can be a lack of empathy (expressed, as you note) or, alternatively, a lack of intimacy.

Still, even if it were truly a lack of empathy, that doesn't explain the sort of maliciousness that IamDevastated describes. I'd still chalk that behaviour up to some other, possibly comorbid, disorder. (Not that it really matters what the diagnosis is, so long as we all agree that not all pwBPD behave/think that way.)

It's because DSM 5 will finally take over DSM4 which has been like, what, outdated for 10 years? :P
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arabella
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« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2013, 02:05:07 PM »

The DSMs are generally out of date before they even get released. It's frustrating to say the least! But, from the DSM5 re BPD and empathy:

Excerpt
Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Compromised ability to recognize the feelings and needs of others associated with interpersonal  hypersensitivity (i.e., prone to feel slighted or insulted); perceptions of others selectively biased toward negative  attributes or vulnerabilities.

That doesn't describe someone with a total lack of empathy, nor someone who is 'evil', nor someone who gains entertainment from the suffering of others. Also, everyone is, to some degree, in relationships for their own gain. If I thought I was getting nothing out of a relationship, I would end it. I'm sure I also sometimes hurt people, I don't intend to do so, it's just a side effect of other circumstances or their needs and mine not being compatible - I don't think this means I have a personality disorder or that I'm a bad person.

I'm sorry guys, but my pwBPD does not match many of the criteria you have listed for APD or psychopathy. The conditions are not interchangeable - although I do agree that they very often may coexist.
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IamDevastated

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« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2013, 02:20:03 PM »

I just want to clarify that in my listing of symptoms where BPD and APD looks similar I was using Hares checklist. If you use Cleckleys list then every single symptom fits except no 2 and 3.

But great answers from everyone here!
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2013, 02:23:57 PM »

The DSMs are generally out of date before they even get released. It's frustrating to say the least! But, from the DSM5 re BPD and empathy:

Excerpt
Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Compromised ability to recognize the feelings and needs of others associated with interpersonal  hypersensitivity (i.e., prone to feel slighted or insulted); perceptions of others selectively biased toward negative  attributes or vulnerabilities.

That doesn't describe someone with a total lack of empathy, nor someone who is 'evil', nor someone who gains entertainment from the suffering of others. Also, everyone is, to some degree, in relationships for their own gain. If I thought I was getting nothing out of a relationship, I would end it. I'm sure I also sometimes hurt people, I don't intend to do so, it's just a side effect of other circumstances or their needs and mine not being compatible - I don't think this means I have a personality disorder or that I'm a bad person.

I'm sorry guys, but my pwBPD does not match many of the criteria you have listed for APD or psychopathy. The conditions are not interchangeable - although I do agree that they very often may coexist.

It's also because your r/s with the dBPD is different than most of ours. Lying and cheating aren't dealbreakers for you, they are for likely the majority of the board.
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wanttoknowmore
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« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2013, 02:29:00 PM »

check lists are practical tools just for convenience of clinicians but they don't give deeper explanations of disorders. Psychodynamic explanations go much deeper but need a lot of time and effort to master. Checklists are like if you have severe headache ,you have brain tumor. You might just be having stress headache. You have to go deeper than checklists. There are much deeper explanations of pwBPD behaviors and just,check lists are not enough to understand this very complex disorder.
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arabella
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« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2013, 03:03:10 PM »

It's also because your r/s with the dBPD is different than most of ours. Lying and cheating aren't dealbreakers for you, they are for likely the majority of the board.

Harm, my friend, that is a bit of a low-blow. Sure my r/s is different and unique - everyone's is. Many people are lied to or cheated on and continue their relationships, both involving a pwBPD and otherwise, lying/cheating are unfortunately rather common in society whether we like to admit it or not. Some situations are certainly more extreme than others. I'm not an idiot and I'm not blind to my pwBPD's faults. The things he does he doesn't do to hurt me or for some sadistic purpose. My point, and the point I believe wanttoknowmore is also making, is that each pwBPD is unique and not all of them have APD-type or "predator" traits - those are not de facto BPD traits themselves.
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2013, 03:15:31 PM »

It's also because your r/s with the dBPD is different than most of ours. Lying and cheating aren't dealbreakers for you, they are for likely the majority of the board.

Harm, my friend, that is a bit of a low-blow. Sure my r/s is different and unique - everyone's is. Many people are lied to or cheated on and continue their relationships, both involving a pwBPD and otherwise, lying/cheating are unfortunately rather common in society whether we like to admit it or not. Some situations are certainly more extreme than others. I'm not an idiot and I'm not blind to my pwBPD's faults. The things he does he doesn't do to hurt me or for some sadistic purpose. My point, and the point I believe wanttoknowmore is also making, is that each pwBPD is unique and not all of them have APD-type or "predator" traits - those are not de facto BPD traits themselves.

I sincerely apologize! I mean that Smiling (click to insert in post) I really did not want to offend anyone. I merely say what I think on the basis of what I have been told by my doctor and therapists and what i've read in academic literature. I really didn't mean to offend anyone here, my goodness, i'm here to get help, same as all of you! 

I just have to disagree with you on the 'predator' trait in regards of BPD and also in regards of the 'wanting to hurt', purely on the basis of what i've been told my shrink & doctor and from what i've read in literature.

I do fully agree that every pwBPD is unique (mine had it in combination with social phobia and PTSD, meaning already showing different behavior in comparison to a person with only BPD), and also agree on the APD statement.

Again, my intention is purely to discuss, and keep things open for discussion. I mean, I also read here where people consider 'not brushing their teeth' as a red flag for BPD. When I read that, I have the tendency to say, well, I have my doubts about that rather than acknowledging that that is the case. There is no point saying to a player in a team who is 0-10 behind in soccer with 1 minute on the clock; 'all will be fine'. Whats the point?
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Wooddragon
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« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2013, 10:44:08 PM »

Mine was well aware of his hurtful manipulations. Small & low key example - he told me that his ex was coming to visit from Perth & that she would be staying at his house. I said I didn't feel comfortable with that. Later I told another of his friends that knew this woman that she would be in melb - other friend said "that's great I would like to catch up with her". No probs with that. Week or so later i told exbf - that m is excited that g is coming over & staying. He replied "shes not, I just made that up so that I could show you how foolish you are being jealous of other women all the time" - what the? . So long story short he entertained himself (and no doubt his friend) in deliberately manipulating me just for the heck of it. And was even prepared to tell me! Makes me wonder how much of the other hurtful (and significant) stuff was all for the sake of him getting his jollies.

So yes - I'm in the predator camp well and truely!
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Surnia
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« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2013, 12:15:45 AM »



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This thread has reached the page limit and is now locked.  Feel free to pick one of the topics from the thread to start a new one.
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