If Physical?

[mamachelle]

Hi Sparkle 13,

I found bpdfamily.com in Jan 2005 and 10 days later my exBPDH attacked me in our kitchen with my DD then 5 and 7 in the next room. BPDH fled the house luckily. I called the police  after my DD went to bed, but didn't press charges. The officer contacted my H and told him to stay away the next day. I don't know if that was normal but it was enough to keep him away. Took pics of bruises, wrote up an account of what happened and then I filed for an OOP the next day as well using a DV volunteer advocate in the court house. Did not need a lawyer.

It was terrifying and I don't want to distract from all the good advice you are getting but just letting you know that you are not alone.

One thing I read later is to avoid any and all confrontations in Bathrooms and kitchens. Too many sharp objects. I saw there was an incident in the bathroom this week. I realize it was beyond your control as you were with your DD. If a confrontation happens again, do try to move yourself away from the bathroom or kitchen and into a safer room.  Hindsight is 20/20... .  

At any rate, do stay safe and keep posting.   

[livednlearned]

The DV Center  I called today said they can help with that.  They also suggested to file a Domestic Incident Report regarding yesterday's incident.  I may try to do that this weekend.

I'm so glad you called the DV center! That's big. I hope they were helpful. I live in area with an excellent DV center, but not all of them are like that.

I'm not familiar with a DIR but it sounds like a really good idea. If you file it, it will show a pattern of behavior without triggering your H (I'm assuming he will not know you filed it?). It sounds to me like you need a little more information from your L before knowing what your next big move is, so the DIR is helpful because if your H does try to file something against you, there will be a pattern of activity that you can use to verify his pattern of abuse toward you. Another good reason why it helps to talk to someone -- a neighbor, or coworker, or mother of kids in your neighborhood or community. Just in case you need to call witnesses forward that can testify that you were being abused and intimidated.

Lots of people on these boards -- men and women -- live in fear that their BPD ex's will do something to them. But we figure out ways to live with it, and to reduce the stress and anxiety. You'll get your life back eventually. It won't be a walk in the park for a while, but it will get so much better when you aren't living together. Your mind comes back! I look back on the time during date of separation and can't believe what my stress level was like.

You're doing the right thing and I'm so   that you're taking care of yourself and moving ahead with your plan. 

[Mind]

I did! They told me to stop in next week to set up a safety plan. I didn't know about the Dir either. Correct- he would not know about it unless it comes up down the road and is used.

Good advice about the rooms. Tonight I was out visiting a friend with my children. The weather was bad and we got home  late. I received a text from him 'don't ya think you are out kinda late?' Hope the kids are okay'. I immediately panicked. He was trying to find out where I was.   I had a family member meet me at the house. He was already asleep, thank goodness. I ignored the text. No reason to reply.

[Forward2free]

How's it going Sparkle?

[livednlearned]

How's it going Sparkle?

Hope your weekend went ok... .



LnL

[Mind]

Hello! Thank you for checking in! Gosh weekends are tough. Saturday morning he said to me "look, I tell you where I take the kids. " I said, "you do not tell me where you take the kids." He then proceeded to tell me it's illegal to take them across the state line. I went to a friends!  I told him I had plans with the kids all weekend. He left Saturday and never came home. I don't know where he was. I had no clue if he was going to come home at 1 am.  Sunday he came home around 2 with his select groceries that included nothing that we need and none of my staples of course. Another way to get at me I suppose.

Isn't him being gone day and night exactly why his L told him he had to be in the house because of abandonment? Just seems like he's going against what his L said. Unless he never said that. Should I document that?

I will say Saturday was the first time I could breathe. I felt much, much more relaxed and at ease with him gone. The minute he opened the door, my anxiety was back. I plan to go to the DV center and file the incident report this week. I wonder how far back I can go with incidents.

[livednlearned]

Document everything you can right now. Even things that don't seem of consequence might come in handy. And it's hard to remember things when you're experiencing high stress, and a written document can be very useful if it comes down to *he said, she said* in court. There's a good case study about that covered in Splitting by Bill Eddy.

If he is mentioning the stuff about parental abduction and taking the kids across state lines, he may be telling his L you are a flight risk.    My ex is doing that (except his concern is across the border with Canada).

[catnap]

I agree with LnL, he is trying to set you up as the "bad" parent. . ."across state lines" "hurting the children"

I am hoping that today you are able to meet with the DV shelter folks about the PO and DIR.

[Mind]

I'm meeting with the DV center tomorrow.  Filing the report is on my list for today or tomorrow.

I have pages and pages of about a year and a half worth of journaling, documentation, letters written by him stating he has an anger and raging issue. He's told me to forget about him and just take care of the kids a few times.   I have documentation from his actions and words said in front of the children that are not even close to this new so-called great dad he's is acting like now.   Reading through this stuff is very difficult and quite a shock for me.  There is so much I've had to put up with and alot has been forgotten.  I am so thankful for my wonderful friend intuition that I've kept great records.

Question: I believe that he may have used money in our joint account for his retainer fee.  Is this legal?  I just found an email that he wanted the daycare receipts from last year to submit them for reimbursement and this was done the week prior to our D. I bet that's why we are now negative.  Does my L need to know this could be why? 

[Mind]

Update: met with the DV counselor. She gave me a danger assessment and it showed I am in increased danger. We talked alot about how abusers act and think. She's providing me with counseling services for my children and offered to help me with an PO. I'm glad I went.

I also filed a DIR. Probably one of the toughest moments walking to that building but it had to be done. It took about a half hour. I also discovered that the wrist pain I've been having the past few days was from that incident when H grabbed the product out of my hand. So the file has been started.

The officer told me about the PO and that it can be given in family court instantly. Can anyone explain this?

[livednlearned]

Update: met with the DV counselor. She gave me a danger assessment and it showed I am in increased danger. We talked alot about how abusers act and think. She's providing me with counseling services for my children and offered to help me with an PO. I'm glad I went.

I also filed a DIR. Probably one of the toughest moments walking to that building but it had to be done. It took about a half hour. I also discovered that the wrist pain I've been having the past few days was from that incident when H grabbed the product out of my hand. So the file has been started.

The officer told me about the PO and that it can be given in family court instantly. Can anyone explain this?

Did you do the mosaic test? The one that Gavin de Becker has online -- it's another way to assess risk. Altho I look back now and can't believe I needed something like that. Guns in the house, mental illness, excessive drinking, paranoia, rages, locking me out of the house, throwing my dog... . guess sometimes we need to have the house on flames to know that it's burning.

I'm not familiar with POs in family court. Maybe it's different depending on what state you live in. But great that it can be granted instantly.

[livednlearned]

Question: I believe that he may have used money in our joint account for his retainer fee.  Is this legal?  I just found an email that he wanted the daycare receipts from last year to submit them for reimbursement and this was done the week prior to our D. I bet that's why we are now negative.  Does my L need to know this could be why? 

Others can chime in, but I believe so. There is usually some fast math when going through financial/equitable distribution, or whatever it's called in your state. I did mine in mediation, and the money I withdrew on date of separation was subtracted from ED. But I don't know how it works if you're still living together. There is a somewhat punitive period between the time you file and when you get temporary orders filed. Ask your L how it works and when you will have that stuff straightened out so you know how you'll be able to support yourself.

[mamachelle]

The officer told me about the PO and that it can be given in family court instantly. Can anyone explain this?

Yes, in my court house in IL there was a DV advocacy group there in the lower level and I met with them and a woman just walked me in to the court house and I was granted the OOP. Temporary one. It's hard to remember... . but it later became permanent and was rolled into my divorce papers. My BPDexH record was still in the state police computers because he would complain when he got pulled over that the officers knew he had an OOP.  If you have an attorney then he or she can do it for you but they will charge... but they would probably prefer to do it. I hired my attorney after I filed the OOP so my attorney was a little surprised but as I said, she just rolled it into the divorce.

It is possible he may file one against you in retaliation with false charges so I would suggest talking to your attorney.

[Mind]

M - My attorney has contacted his A twice. His A hasn't returned phone calls. She is aware of the DV situation and wants to discuss with his A the possibility of him moving out. I'm guessing she was trying to avoid the OoP.  I'm working with a DV center and they told me they could help me with the OoP.  If I went that route I would advise my attorney. She has a staff person that is experienced in DV cases and she said I could contact her if need be. 

What happens after the temporary one is given? How would he find out about it?  Does he have a certain number of days to move out?  My issue is that he is living in the house with me and I am very afraid right now.

LivenLearned: I'm not sure if it was the Mosaic test. It was several questions and I was graded using a point value system. 

My next place to go to is to get my wrist looked at. I believe it may be sprained from the incident last week, from him ripping the bottle out of my hand.   Does DV come into play when custody is decided?  He can't leave soon enough... .

[MammaMia]

Sparkle 13

Foreverdad is right on.  :)ocument, document, document.  :)o not be afraid to call 911 if you feel you and your children are in imminent danger... . including threats.  You must do whatever is necessary to get him out of your home.  His being there is a clear invitation to trouble, and if he has any weapons, remove them from the property immediately.

Do not allow him to force you and your children to live in fear.  Take whatever steps are necessary to protect yourself and and your babies, no matter how difficult they are at the time.  

Please take care of yourself and stay strong.  

[Mind]

Do I have to tell him where I am? Where my kids are? Who is watching my kids? I don't know how to reply to his email - I can't think clearly today. 

[Mind]

Also if there's a situation where I need to call 911, what if he is still in the house? Do I just call? Do I remove the children?  I am trying to prepare.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle13

Those are good questions.

Ask your attorney and/or the person she works with on DV cases for answers.  Together they can advise you about how best to legally proceed, what to tell your dh and what not to tell him, etc.  You can trust their judgement.

I hope you contact them soon.

Be safe.

 

[livednlearned]

Do I have to tell him where I am? Where my kids are? Who is watching my kids? I don't know how to reply to his email - I can't think clearly today. 

I fled the marital home abruptly and moved into an apartment, taking S11 with me, that day without telling N/BPDxh. However -- and this is important -- I immediately put S11 in contact with his dad. They talked on the phone. I wrote N/BPDxh an email that said S11 was safe, he was with me, and that he would call his dad at xyz time/day to talk to him.

We lived in that apartment 3.5 mos and neither lawyer made me disclose our address. I did disclose it during mediation, and it is in the order that he was not allowed to get out of his car while on the property, and could not come to my door.

Talk to your L about whether or not you can do this too in your state.

[livednlearned]

My next place to go to is to get my wrist looked at. I believe it may be sprained from the incident last week, from him ripping the bottle out of my hand.   :)oes DV come into play when custody is decided?  He can't leave soon enough... .

DV can come into play when custody is decided. Sometimes, courts look at fighting between adults as just that -- fighting between adults. They will take seriously any abuse from your H toward your kids, and in general they understand that hitting mom is bad for kids. It depends a lot on your case and how your L handles it, the kind of documentation you have, whether or not you'll get a custody evaluation, how disordered your ex is, whether there is mediation, etc. 

[livednlearned]

 

What happens after the temporary one is given? How would he find out about it?  :)oes he have a certain number of days to move out?  My issue is that he is living in the house with me and I am very afraid right now.

So usually he would be served by someone that is hired to do that -- track down your H and serves him papers. In general, that is a very inflammatory experience, so you want to be doubly sure that you are safe. Tell the police for your area what is happening, have your phone on you, change the locks on your house, or better yet, stay somewhere else.

Then, if it's the same where you are, officers will come with him during something they call "domestic assistance" to make sure no one is hurt.

You are right to be afraid. In Gift of Fear, Gavin de Becker talks about the psychological effect of POs on certain profiles of abusers, and in general, someone with a PD is not going to take kindly to being served. It makes them feel controlled.

It is possible that your L and his L are going to negotiate that in exchange for a PO, he just agrees to move out. That might work, but might not be any less dangerous, and the safest thing for you is to probably find a place to stay that feels safe. Take pictures of your home and remove anything you don't want him to destroy or take for himself.

It's awful that it has to be so scary in order for you to create a safe life for yourself. Hopefully he is just trying to intimidate you. In Gift of Fear, de Becker says that in general, it's the men who already physically abuse their wives that are the ones to really worry about, but he also says to create a safety plan to protect yourself from any kind of abuser.

[Mind]

Today I found out that the results of my X-ray read my wrist is fractured from the incident last week. I now have to see an orthopedic dr. This leads me to believe an order of protection may have to be my  next course of action. I can't wait for another episode done to me or in front of my kids. The DV center can help me but I will tell my A as well. He's still residing in the house, making it awful for me and our family.

Is there anything I need to know about an OoP? I'm mentally exhausted at this point.

[MammaMia]

I am so sorry.

Do you have any place you can go... . friends or relatives who can help temporarily?

By all means tell your A and get some advice as soon as possible.

Did you tell the doctor what really happened?  He may be required to report DV

to the police, just like suspected child abuse.

[Mind]

Not really. My dad is closeby but he hasn't offered. My A knows of the incident and has left messages with his A to possibly have him move out. I just found out about the fracture yesterday so first thing Mon. I will let her know and give her the dr. Report. He never came home last night.

I did tell the doctor and they know I filed at Dir with the police. I have a feeling that now it's a fracture this may change things. Maybe I should ask my A if I should do the OoP. The DV center would help me but I'm very confused and scared at this point.  He just needs to be removed from our house.

Would the OoP have him stay away from the kids too?

[mamachelle]

Sparkle13

My temp OOP scared my exBPDH and he had fled the apartment already. I think it did protect the kids but I cant remember exact provisions. It was definitely amended when extended beyond 30 days for visitation at a mutual friends house (no family lived near) and for child support. It was 8 years ago. So I'm foggy on details.

In my case, my H was scared of being arrested so it did work.

You need to talk to your attorney---  I would try to call today even... . My attorney will return emergency calls like a doctor on weekends... .

mamachelle

[MammaMia]

I agree... . call your A today.  :)o the police have his vehicle license number?  If so, they could have picked him up already, but I would think they would let you know.

Another option would be to get the locks at your house changed TODAY.  If he shows up and cannot get in, call 911 and have him arrested then and there.  If you feel you are in imminent danger, the police might be able to put an unmarked car outside your home ... . if they have the capability and you ask.

It is time to stop playing nice and protect yourself and your children.  

[Mind]

I don't know if they take emergency calls. I can email my A's assistant that she referred me to maybe. He came home today. So I still have to allow him to take the kids to his families' for Easter? This is an awful situation.

The police don't have his license plate that I know of. I know my A gets her emails on her phone so maybe I should send her a message now. I agree - I'm done playing nice.

[livednlearned]

Hi Sparkle,

Try your L -- email her. But don't worry too much if you can't get in touch with her. I had a similar incident happen over the weekend (I think BPD gets worse on the weekends).

The dread you feel right now is worth trusting. I know it's hard to think when you're going through this. What I would do in your shoes:

1. Leave with the kids and go stay somewhere safe.

2. Call your L and tell her what you are doing.

3. Call a DV hotline and tell them what you are doing.

4. Write an email to your ex to tell him that you are temporarily staying somewhere with the kids because you no longer feel safe. Tell him that they will call him at x time every morning and night, and that you are staying somewhere local, but do not feel safe disclosing the location. Tell him it is your job to keep the kids safe and given how angry H has been, you can no longer guarantee that the home is safe while living there. Last, tell him that you have asked your L and his L to discuss where H will live while divorce proceedings continue so that you can both create the safest, least disruptive environment for your kids. Tell him that you will not talk to him face-to-face, only by text.

5. Once you have left, have the kids call their father as stated in your email. Your L will probably tell you to make sure the kids talk to their father immediately so that you cannot be accused of withholding contact between them. It is common for victims of DV to leave with the kids, and there is a procedure in place. But you also have to make sure it doesn't look like you are trying to prevent the kids from having a relationship with their dad. Having them call and talk on the phone is sufficient. I fled on a Friday and S11 talked to his dad Monday night. There were no consequences for me. I made sure S11 talked to his dad at 7pm promptly every night, and kept records of my cell phone bill to prove it. I did not talk to N/BPDx verbally after that -- only at our deposition, for 45 seconds, have we spoken to each other face to face. Everything is in text.

Tell the kids what is happening in straightforward terms. I told S11: "It's my job to keep you safe, and I no longer feel I can do that while living in the same house with N/BPDxh. You and I are going to live somewhere different for a while until he cools his jets. He is being a bully to me and that is not ok. It's going to be a change, but you will talk to H on the phone. Until I think he has his anger under control, it is not ok to tell him where we are living."

6. On Monday, call your L again.

7. First thing Monday morning, go to the DV center and have them help you with the PO. Get a copy of the x-rays and take them with you.

Since you do not yet have a custody order or visitation schedule in place, it is likely that the PO order will prevent your ex from seeing the kids, at least until he files an ex parte order -- all that means is that he files an emergency motion to get the courts to intervene quickly instead of waiting the usual long period of time it takes to get hearings on the calendar.

Keep in mind that when your H is served, he will probably go ballistic. It's one of the most dangerous times -- right after they are served. I don't recommend that you move back into the house right away. If you do move back, ask your L if you can change the locks -- it might be a good idea to do that regardless of what she says. With the x-ray, you have a better case to show the judge that H is capable of violence, and he might think changing the locks was a smart move regardless of whether or not you followed the correct legal procedure. Ask people to stay with you that you trust so that you can relax. A PO will help you if H approaches the property, but it doesn't guarantee your safety, if that makes sense.

[livednlearned]

Hi Sparkle,

This is from another thread, but it gets at what I'm trying to say about POs. There is a place for them, and they can provide some protection, but they don't quite work like we want them to with disordered, mentally ill people:

I went down and chatted with the sheriff, whom I know pretty well (not just from the fire dept, but from political activities--same view, fortunately  ). Asked him, confidentially, what my options are, without actually making a report. He told me to pick up a restraining order packet and read it and think about it, and was also frank in saying it doesn't do much good until AFTER it's broken and that it usually plays out differently with someone with severe mental illness--often causing an escalation and sometimes triggering this mentally ill person to be more violent than they would have been without it.

That's what Gavin de Becker writes about POs in The Gift of Fear. When my ex was having his psychotic episode while S11 was spending the night with him, I agonized about sending law enforcement to check on S11 (that's all cops can do in civil orders) and filing the PO. N/BPDxh threatened to not return S11 during the scheduled exchange time on Sunday, and wrote threats that (were intended to) make me think he was going to kill S11 ("You'll never see S11 again, I guess you don't love your son because of your own stupid ego, I should have done this a long time ago, you won't see S11 today and you only have yourself to blame, etc".

I called my therapist on a Sunday and she (thank god) answered my call. We talked for about an hour, and she helped me think through the repercussions of any action I took, including calling the police to provide a "well-child check" at n/BPDx's house to make sure S11 was ok. I was worried that could trigger N/BPDx to do something, and the cops could not guarantee that I could remove S11 from the house. They would only do that if they thought S11 was under some kind of threat, but would not guarantee what the criteria was for gauging whether he was being harmed  :'(

In the end, T helped me second-guess N/BPDx's logic, and she felt sure he was bluffing, and that he would bring S11 back promptly on time.

He did.

S11 was totally rattled, but had not been hurt.

I did not file the PO for the same reason, but went on high alert about my safety, including reporting what was happening at my office. My boss moved my office, I don't have anything on my door that indicates who works there, and we circulated a picture of N/BPDxh throughout the building. I moved into a new apartment that has a garage so N/BPDx can't see if I'm home, got an alarm system, etc.

My H has a lot of narcissism, and that seems to have worked in my favor. He does not want to appear "weak" in front of anyone. Ultimately, that's what my T said: N/BPDx does not want the neighbors to think he's the problem, and isn't likely to harm me because it will make him look bad. He has no trouble telling S11 that he wants to beat me to a pulp with S11's baseball bat  :'( so that sucks.

Because your H has already hurt you, there is more of a chance that he will continue to try and be violent. That's what the stats on abusive men say.

Your first priority needs to be your safety right now. Then deal with the courts.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

Have not heard from you today.  Are you ok?