If Physical?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi - I'm alright.  I am just very confused and overwhelmed right now as to what to do.  I have an email into my A and I haven't heard back yet.  I have to make an appointment to have my wrist looked at.  I need to call the DV center and let my counselor know my wrist is fractured.  I also need to talk to my C and let her know the severity of the situation.   

He's at home this week with the kids for break. My D said she's sleeping over his parents tonight. He never said anything about this. Last night he told me he was going to pick something up at his parents and looked at me with this evil look.  Last night he left at night for a few hours and came back. I never know if he's sleeping in the house or when he's coming back.  I'm not sleeping, I can't breathe, I'm scared, I don't feel safe and I can't relax anywhere right now. I don't really have anywhere to move to temporarily. 

LNL - thank you for your step by step directions.  I will call the DV center today and see what they say. 

[Mind]

Hi - I'm alright.  I am just very confused and overwhelmed right now as to what to do.  I have an email into my A and I haven't heard back yet.  I have to make an appointment to have my wrist looked at.  I need to call the DV center and let my counselor know my wrist is fractured.  I also need to talk to my C and let her know the severity of the situation.   

He's at home this week with the kids for break. My D said she's sleeping over his parents tonight. He never said anything about this. Last night he told me he was going to pick something up at his parents and looked at me with this evil look.  Last night he left at night for a few hours and came back. I never know if he's sleeping in the house or when he's coming back.  I'm not sleeping, I can't breathe, I'm scared, I don't feel safe and I can't relax anywhere right now. I don't really have anywhere to move to temporarily. 

LNL - thank you for your step by step directions.  I will call the DV center today and see what they say. 

[Mind]

Spoke to my L.  She is recommending I file the OoP and the DV center will be helping me today. I am very nervous but I know my safety and the kids safety is now priority.  I just have to figure out the logistics and make sure we aren't home when the serving takes place. 

[scraps66]

PS  I used to keep and carry a tape recorder.  It was a voice activated one that I used to leave in strategic locations throughout the house before I left.  Then I forgot where I put it and never found it!  Even now, if in close proximity to my uexBPDNPDw, I have my smartphone set to record in my hand at all times.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

Glad you are ok and things are falling in to place.  You now have others to support you and you need to act quickly to get him served and out.  Everyone being home for Spring Break could either work to distract him, or make things worse if it increases conflict... .   like the kids fighting among themselves.  Something kids do.

Recording threats is a good idea if it can be done without causing more problems.

Please be careful.  Keep us posted.  Prayers for you and your children.

[Mind]

I'm very exhausted. The OOP was served tonight. Earlier than I was told. It was the lesser one though- just a warning which the counselors did not understand because my wrist is fractured. This is not good. So he is still in the house.  He left tonight but I expect him back.

He took my d to his parents overnight and it looks like they must not allowed for her to call me tonight. This is awful. I advised my L of the OOP and she wants to talk to me tomorrow.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

A warning?  What the heck?  He has already broken your wrist.  he should be charged

not warned.  This is crazy! 

[Mind]

Exactly!  I was shocked and very disappointed.  I was there for five hours.  Doesn't make sense why they would give a warning. Unless it was bc he doesn't have any record until this.   His A has not returned my A's calls going on three weeks now.  Then the incident occurs.  My A was trying to prevent the incident from occuring and now I have a fractured wrist. I explained to the officer that I don't feel safe around him and he instructed me to call if anything happens.  They advised me of when he was served so I knew last night.   He returned to the house late last night, as he's on break this week. 

[mamachelle]

Sparkle13

This sounds very odd. My temp OOP was granted in the court house by a judge. I don't understand how there can be a warning unless it was just an incident report at the police station. You should have a copy of the OOP which clearly states it is an OOP.  I would take all paperwork to your L and get a real OOP. It doesn't matter that he has no prior record.

Good luck today.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

 

You need an OOP with some teeth in it.  Law enforcement is not taking this seriously, I suspect you may need to formally charge him if you have not done so already.  Make it clear to the judge you have children in the house and he is violent and unpredictable.

I cannot recall if your h has BPD.  If so tell the judge... .   that fact alone makes it a whole new situation. 

This is outrageous.  A slap on the wrist.  The only thing he needs slapped on his wrists are handcuffs!

I cannot recall if your h has BPD.  If so tell the judge... .   that fact alone makes it a whole new situation. 

[Mind]

Spoke to my L.  We are now filing an Order to Show Cause to bump it up to a level 1. The court day given was in three weeks as well so she wants that bumped up.  I didn't see a judge but instead she was a referee.  I think he is B.  He isn't officially diagnosed.

I've been instructed to call 911 in the event another situation occurs. I am on alert but extremely on edge all of the time. Awful.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

You saw a mediator.  What is the To Show Cause order?  Is that to get a full OOP?

In the meantime, your h stays in the home, terrifying you and your children?  That is insane.

His history of violence is not going to go away, the potential for disaster is still there, and the psychological impact is huge for you and your children.

Has your h's behavior changed at all since being served? 

I assume no charges have been filed, because of the court's lack of action.  Personally, I think this is a mistake.  He broke your wrist and continues to threaten you.  He should be in jail.  I am very surprised your L is not doing more. 

I am sorry you have been let down yet again.  This is wrong on so many levels.

[Mind]

Yes, it's to get the full OoP.  It's wrong and completely insane. I can't even imagine how someone can allow a man who has injured his wife in front of children to reside there on a warning?  The mediator told me this was given to hope he calms down.  There is no way that is happening! I know this.  This will be a trigger so either it will force him to move out on his own or it will go opposite. Meanwhile, I, who pretty much takes care of everything with our children, continue to live in fear every minute of my life.    

I haven't seen him. He was served last night, came home around midnight and didn't see him this morning when I left.  I will see him tonight I'm sure. I am sick to my stomach.  On top of this, I still have to see the ortho dr. for my wrist.  

Looking at the title of this thread, "If physical, " was started on March 19.  The incident happened on March 21.  I will say that this is proof that I am very in tune with my intuition.

Does anyone have any insight how this may affect custody?  It is terrifying to me when he is alone with the kids. I just don't have trust in this situation at all and really feel I need to protect my children.

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

Your h may stay just to torment you.

He should be forced to go live with his parents until the divorce is finalized.  He should not even have the option of staying.  I do not understand why the law is supporting him ... .   you are the victim here.

They seem to view this as an isolated domestic issue, and they are giving him the benefit of the doubt with regard to his behavior.  It is still assault, no matter how you try to sugar-coat it.

Assault is a legal issue and it calls for legal action.

[Mind]

How many chances do I have to give this man before he seriously hurts someone? Me? The kids?  How could they allow him to reside with us? I'm so tired of giving him chance after chance to improve his behavior.  I am the victim. I've been the victim for years.  The paperwork was processed right from the domestic violence center.  He is not going to calm down.  I can't talk to him.  He won't discuss anything calmly with me.   

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

EXACTLY!

Assault or assault and battery is a prosecutable offense in my state.  He would be arrested and  in jail. 

I would be interested to know why they are downplaying the seriousness of his actions.  Everyone should be made aware this is not an isolated incident: your L, the DV people, the judge, and the police.  Personally, I think they are stalling until the divorce is final, hoping the issue will just go away... .   If he gets away with it, what is to stop him from escalating?

You are right, this can be the most dangerous phase of a divorce.  The fact he remains in your home is absurd.   What he has done is assault, and you need to consider legal options.  Talk to your lawyer.

[ForeverDad]

To a large extent, the agencies and courts view adult behaviors (such as DV) as separate from parenting behaviors.  (Yes, I know, why should the system expect a person to consistently behave as two separate people?)

In my case, I called CPS twice before separation, both times reporting my ex raging at me in front of our child.  If I told her "He's right here, look at him, he's cowering!" then she'd retort, "You made me do it!"  (Toward the end she started to rage at me mostly when he was asleep or in another room and she would deny any effect on our child.)  Each time the CPS staff asked one question, "Is she raging at your child?"  I had to answer No and I was told to call back if she ever did that.  They apparently were powerless unless he was the focus of the rage, being exposed to it wasn't actionable.  Well, the problem with that was that he was the Golden Child and I was the Blacklisted Rejected Spouse Mr Evil Personified.  Only a few months ago, some 7 years later, he told me, "My mommy hates you."

That may be something to address when seeking a protection order, try your best to get the children included and him required to be supervised to some extent, at least until an evaluation could be made to determine to what extent he can have parenting or visitation.  If you don't push to get the kids included, they may give only you protection, however limited.

It's possible the action now is minimal because you didn't immediately seek protection.  The system is set up to respond quicker when the emergency responders are involved.  The longer the delay the harder to get action.  That's the price of being a Nice Guy or Nice Gal and waiting to see what happens.  Delay (and the resumed contact) makes the urgency seem less.

Going forward, don't initiate trying to reason with him any more.  You know it won't work and even if it seems to work, you know it won't last for long.  Sadly.  And IMO no more physical contact on your part and if he tries then you politely state your boundary of No Physical Contact.  If possible, let the system take over, if it will follow through and do it.

[MammaMia]

ForeverDad

This is not just about raging.  He physically attacked Sparkle and broke her wrist.  That is assault.

[ForeverDad]

ForeverDad

This is not just about raging.  He physically attacked Sparkle and broke her wrist.  That is assault.

Correct.  However, I was only giving a heads up about a possible court perspective that she may have to deal with.  All I was saying, first, is that there is risk that her local system may see it as less than urgent if some time has passed.  Second, I was stating that her local system may see only her at risk - since she was the focus of the abuse - and not both her and the children.*  That's why I encouraged her to try to get them included at least until some sort of evaluation can be done.  Of course, I'm not a part of the system and so that is just my generalized observation of how things turn out in many cases.

* In my case, I got a TPO in municipal court when my ex was arrested for threats of DV.  Yet municipal court issued the TPO only for me, our child wasn't included.  My then-spouse even asked the judge about our child and he stated that minors were handled in family court.  Naturally, as soon as she got out she went to family court and got an ex parte TPO against me and included our son in it and, despite her pending case in municipal court, family court rubberstamped her petition and it was in force until we both were scheduled to appear a week or two later for both sides ofthe case to be heard.  So far as I ever learned, family court ignored that line on her petition that listed her pending case in the other court.

[Mind]

Appreciate all of your comments. I  checked and the next OoP will include the kids.

[MammaMia]

ForeverDad

I do not understand why Sparkle's h was not charged with a crime that would get immediate action,

rather than having to play DV games with the court.   He did not just throw a flower pot at her or shove her... .   he fractured her wrist requiring an Emergency Room visit and now she needs to see an orthopedist.  AND after all of that she still has to jump through hoops to get him out of the house to protect herself and her children from on-going abuse?  

Our legal system is totally dysfunctional.  

[mamachelle]

Sparkle13 would have to press charges. I didn't but I still got an oop. It is hard when all this is happening to make decisions. Having your H arrested is different than getting an oop.

In my case years later,, even when there were bruises and my child was abused dcfs did not want to indicate abuse. They did but it was really iffy there as the case worker thought my ExH was a nice guy. ? Ugg in the end it was just a letter I could use but it was not definitive in any thing in and of itself.

[Mind]

I need some help! I came home today and my H and kids weren't home. I started to get concerned so I texted him asking where are the kids and when will they be home? His reply: I've been instructed to leave the marital home. The kids are safe and will reside with me. I called police and they told me there's nothing they can do because he is the father. I explained  the OOP. contacted the DV center and spoke with a rep who referred me to crisis services.

I'm About to email my L. I'm a mess right now... .  

[Forward2free]

Are the kids listed on the OOP?

I'm in Aust so rules may be different, but I needed to have them on the OOP for it to be enforceable.

I hope that you get some answers from your L soon. Try to stay calm and remember to breathe. You need all your faculties together to be in the right position to fight back the right way.

Don't harass him with phone calls or messages. It could be used against you as  evidence that you are not leaving him alone and will get everything you are trying to achieve off balance.

Do you have a mutual friend that might be able to help you with some info about where and how they are?

[MammaMia]

Sparkle

It sounds like he spoke to his L who knows the police have no legal right to stop him now.  He was also probably told a formal OOP would most likely include the children.  He is doing this to hurt you, not them.    

I am so sorry.

[Mind]

No. Our next step was to apply for the stay away OP and that would include the kids. I only sent the one text. I am guessing they are at his parents.

[Mind]

M- I've been talking to family and a friend. I agree, it's to hurt me. Probably because I filed the OOP among other things. I haven't heard from my D in two days. He has not allowed them to contact me and I am sure they are asking. My youngest has never slept away from me. I am so upset.

[MammaMia]

As a precaution, the first thing you MUST do is change the locks on your home immediately, so he cannot return while you are alone.  Or stay with a friend somewhere other than your house.  I suspect this is exactly what your L will advise.

[Mind]

Okay- also he just texted me to get me to agree on custody arrangements. No way. He wrote please reply to this text. What do I say?

[MammaMia]

Does he want joint custody?  You could tell him you need to talk to your L about it before making any decisions.  He is trying to use this crisis to get you to agree to whatever he wants.

[ForeverDad]

It sounds like he spoke to his L who knows the police have no legal right to stop him now... .   He is doing this to hurt you, not them.

Quite likely it will be a race, metaphorically at least, to see who gets to the court house first.  His lawyer, who of course has only heard his version, has advised him to seek as much leverage as he can.

At least you know now that he's unlikely to pop in.  He still can, he can say he came to get his things, but he may not want to risk letting the kids get back with you.

Is he back at work?  I figure at least one of the children is old enough for school?  Do you use daycare?  If so, then likely you can (without telling him in advance, remember, no more sharing information or strategies) take some time off from work or leave early and pick up the children well before he would arrive?

Right now he's going to try to keep the children until the hearing, whenever that is, and show up claiming you're a terrible parent, you aren't caring for the kids, he can't work because he has to take care of the children, he did not break your wrist, etc, etc.

Likely too he's taking this time to try to convince the kids he never misbehaved in front of them, that you don't love them, you don't want them, etc.  Not much you can do right now.  Stick close to your lawyer, push for that OoP ASAP, stbExH has likely got some more surprises up his sleeve, perhaps he will even make wild counter allegations.

The police are probably going to stay 'hands off' regarding possession of the children until some order comes through that tells them which parent comes out on top.  Meanwhile you have to be on your best behavior.  StbExH may try to entrap you or frame you for abuse.  Beware, he will try to push your buttons, getting you to react or attack and you can bet he'll be recording it or have witnesses.  He sees this as most pwBPD do, all good or all bad, so he will fight that way too, without limits, no pulled punches, no holds barred, underhanded, anything to cause you pain and/or do something to sabotage your case as the victim and target.  I repeat, he will try to shift the blame from him to you.  And he will be so emotionally convincing to the unwary or gullible.  Be aware.  Beware.

See my prior post copied below where the court was not very concerned at all about what my ex did, blocking my access for 3 months while I waited for my scheduled hearing.  Yes, you see it as The End Of The World, but your lawyer will tell you that in the grand scheme of things you have to be patient and let the system work, imperfect though it is.  (Your situation is different from mine, besides our gender difference, my ex had made vehement death threats, yours actually broke your wrist.)  Your lawyer may tell you that you can request the police to do a "well check" or you can ask your local police about it.  Often they will agree to check up on the children to verify they're okay and then let you know.

This was my experience... .   While we were separated but before I had filed for divorce she started blocking all father-child access.  I never found a time she left our preschooler anywhere since she had her own schedule, didn't use a daycare and son wasn't in school.  The police refused to help me see our child nor accompany me for a peace visit, I was told I needed a court order in hand before they would step in, though I was also assured (warned) that if I went to her residence to see our son and she called the police then they would respond immediately, presumably to protect her from a dangerous situation.

After a month of blocking I filed for divorce.  Nothing changed because I still had no order.  I had to wait nearly two more months to finally get to visit with our son a few days after our hearing in family court.  The magistrate knew I hadn't seen my son for 3 months yet saw no urgency for a father-son reunion, in fact she asked for an extra day's delay since she wanted to take our son to an out-of-town event the next Saturday and so the magistrate delayed the reunion by 26 hours to accommodate her.  Maybe in his mind he reasoned I had been blocked 3 months and if I was going to have to wait for my newly scheduled upcoming weekend then what was another day and two hours?

This may be how your court could see your parenting choices, that without a court order in place then you can pretty much do as you please, as happened with my uncooperative spouse.  Then again, maybe it won't.  It's hard to say in advance.

My point?  Do what you feel is right and reasonable for you and your children.  You don't have to respond and appease his every demand.  Yes, he's trying to make you out to be blocking or unreasonable.  But the court is not likely to scrutinize your every decision or choice, especially if you're just continuing your typical schedule and pattern.  I think.  So don't seek confrontation but on the other hand appeasing could send him a message that you don't have firm boundaries and he will push even more.

Right now you're probably encountering what we have termed an extinction burst, where he's been triggered and is demanding more and more control in order to get Compliant Spouse back where you were and as you were before.

Are you recording every interaction yet?  (Sorry to keep asking, but he may say something that could later help your case - or even save you from false allegations or false claims.)

Edit:

Does he want joint custody?  You could tell him you need to talk to your L about it before making any decisions.  He is trying to use this crisis to get you to agree to whatever he wants.

As for his 'demand' (I say demand because he thinks he has leverage over you now, possession of the kids) to agree on custody arrangements, you can reply simply that your lawyer instructed you to make no major decisions without lawyer's review and approval.  Then politely ask for the children to come back home or meet him at the police station for an exchange.  That's right, blame your lawyer for lack of a firm answer.  That's part of lawyer's job, to take some of the heat and pressure off you.

However, it's okay to ask him what he wants.  No problem there, you can always listen or read, just don't commit yourself to literally anything.  Say, "I'll have to think about it." Or, "I'll have to ask my lawyer."  Or, "It's too soon to make decisions... .   "

Perhaps he's trying to get you to agree to less just to get the kids back and then use it against you (see above about recording) in court saying you really don't want as much time/custody as you are seeking?