"Reality Distortion Field" - I

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

"Reality distortion field (RDF) is a term coined by Bud Tribble at Apple Computer in 1981, to describe company co-founder Steve Jobs' charisma and its effects on the developers working on the Macintosh project.[1] Tribble said that the term came from Star Trek.[1] Later the term has also been used to refer to perceptions of his keynote speeches (or "Stevenotes" by observers and devoted users of Apple computers and products. ~ Andy Hertzfeld, (February 1981). "Reality Distortion Field". Folklore.org."

Well, we each have our process. That much is for sure. And frankly all I needed to know about how to end things with her, I've known for a while but needed to do it 'my way'... . I'm not so hard on myself about it but am aware of the danger of being to 'easy' if I keep running into the same problem (as I will) and repeating the pattern.

Short story for those lucky members who have not read my long rambling posts in Undecided, Staying and Leaving... .   in no particular order.

After ending the engagement about 3.5 years ago,, we have maintained close connection... .   had a massive terrible fight after the ending when she came back and tried to hurt me... .   it escalated and there was some damage done by both of us that we do both regret... . although her version of regret doesn't allow shame or real remorse, regret or any of those typical human emotions... .   In fact, her version of the past seems to always reflect her current state of mind... . Does this sound familiar to anybody? (haha... . I know it does!)

So after she lured me back last NYE only to walk into an epic trap... . as i had made it clear I wasn't trying again if she had any other partners... .   SHe has changed this completely... .   anyway after we had sex and she had extremely powerful orgasms... . I innocently said (really)... . "Wow, whens the last time you did that" to which she exploded (she almost never explodes (THAT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHO I HAVE SEX WITH)

And off we went... .   I lost it... .   I really flipped out... . I called her every name in the book... .   

I of course was not invited to her place and stayed in the hotel for a few nights (beautiful island) and took xanax and got drunk all day to survive... .   

We made up, I stayed at her place and while she was at work, I was cleaning and found a used condom in the trash... .   

Anyway... .   to make a long story short... .   we didn't fight... .   i stayed a couple more days and when she dropped me at the airport and asked if we were in a committed relationship, I cooly responded... . "That was fun... . I had a great time... . WIll I be in a monogamous relationship with you again? No. that won't happen. thank you for being such a good host"

And since then I never gave her the chance to yelp how I was always breaking up with her, which was her mantra... .   

In May of last year I was in Los Angeles and she managed to be in SF and came to see me... .   and we had amazing sex and a great time... .   I drove her to the airport and she said... . ":)o we have a serious monogamous relationship now? To which I replied... . "No, that was fun... . but I told you ... . that's not going to happen"... .   

In October she told me she broke up with her bf (3rd time) and I visited her for her birthday... .   had a really nice time... . and made plans to come back... .   Three weeks later... .   a text (after her disappearing for 24 hours which is universal signal for having sex) her text read... .   "Sorry, no easy way to say this. I am back with X. sorry"

I survived... .   can't teach an old dog new tricks... .   didn't love it but whatever... .   

So she finally comes to my city 4 weeks ago... . i see her text on her ipad that she is meeting an ex (for business)... .   when she gets back we have a fight,... . and when she gets home she disappears and leads me to believe she had sex with someone on a first date... . in fact she finally admits she was back yet again with boyfriend (4th break up) ... .

she comes back last week for 2nd round of job interview and it's all going great... .   I make nice plans for Saturday as she is sitting on the couch texting... . and she says "Tomorrow I have to go to a trade event"... .   My hair stands up and i say is it with X? she says ARE YOU BREAKING UP WITH ME?

And I try to explain my feelings... . i try to use tools i have learned here... .   and then I excused myself to go into the bathroom and think and after I come out I sit down and say... .   "You know, you have always accused me of breaking up with you when I didn't... .   I just committed to you w2 days ago to try again... .   This is the first commitment I have made since we ended the engagement... .   and I will tell you this clearly... .   and straight... .   YES. I AM BREAKING UP WITH YOU.

And we didn't fight or yell as she calmly and cooly packed her bags and left.

Now today she texts me "Btw, for the record, when asked if I would ever be with X again, my official answer was it wasn't likely but noting is impossible"

I went on to explain I felt it was almost a sort of a test and that she said it in a way that showed zero empathy or concern... . zero... .   

By the way... .   this is her twin sisters ex boyfriend! whom my ex dated and broke up with when in bed he called her by her twin's name! He then wanted to meet back them and she showed up WTIH ANOTHER GUY... .   

She did explain that she was sorry she was not soft but was bracing for me and was scared... . protective and that I threw in the towel within minutes and she never feels safe with me.

I said.I understand actually as how could she feel safe when she was acting in ways that made me feel unsafe... . and I explained... .   "OK, imagine I have a twin brother and I date his girlfriend after they were going out for two years... . I think end badly with her... .   and now I am meeting her for 3 hours at a trade show and suddenly tell you ... .   how would you react?

She said, "I think your reaction was somewhat immature and explosive"

LOL, she's sorta right... .

It's so frustrating... .   it's just maddening... .   i see at least she truly doesn't get it... .   it's like a 12 year old... .   she doesnt get it... .   she doesnt even mean harm

Almost makes it harder to understand and deal with it.

sorry for the long and redundant vent.

[Hurt llama]

"Reality distortion field (RDF) is a term coined by Bud Tribble at Apple Computer in 1981, to describe company co-founder Steve Jobs' charisma and its effects on the developers working on the Macintosh project.[1] Tribble said that the term came from Star Trek.[1] Later the term has also been used to refer to perceptions of his keynote speeches (or "Stevenotes" by observers and devoted users of Apple computers and products. ~ Andy Hertzfeld, (February 1981). "Reality Distortion Field". Folklore.org."

Well, we each have our process. That much is for sure. And frankly all I needed to know about how to end things with her, I've known for a while but needed to do it 'my way'... . I'm not so hard on myself about it but am aware of the danger of being to 'easy' if I keep running into the same problem (as I will) and repeating the pattern.

Short story for those lucky members who have not read my long rambling posts in Undecided, Staying and Leaving... .   in no particular order.

After ending the engagement about 3.5 years ago,, we have maintained close connection... .   had a massive terrible fight after the ending when she came back and tried to hurt me... .   it escalated and there was some damage done by both of us that we do both regret... . although her version of regret doesn't allow shame or real remorse, regret or any of those typical human emotions... .   In fact, her version of the past seems to always reflect her current state of mind... . Does this sound familiar to anybody? (haha... . I know it does!)

So after she lured me back last NYE only to walk into an epic trap... . as i had made it clear I wasn't trying again if she had any other partners... .   SHe has changed this completely... .   anyway after we had sex and she had extremely powerful orgasms... . I innocently said (really)... . "Wow, whens the last time you did that" to which she exploded (she almost never explodes (THAT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHO I HAVE SEX WITH)

And off we went... .   I lost it... .   I really flipped out... . I called her every name in the book... .   

I of course was not invited to her place and stayed in the hotel for a few nights (beautiful island) and took xanax and got drunk all day to survive... .   

We made up, I stayed at her place and while she was at work, I was cleaning and found a used condom in the trash... .   

Anyway... .   to make a long story short... .   we didn't fight... .   i stayed a couple more days and when she dropped me at the airport and asked if we were in a committed relationship, I cooly responded... . "That was fun... . I had a great time... . WIll I be in a monogamous relationship with you again? No. that won't happen. thank you for being such a good host"

And since then I never gave her the chance to yelp how I was always breaking up with her, which was her mantra... .   

In May of last year I was in Los Angeles and she managed to be in SF and came to see me... .   and we had amazing sex and a great time... .   I drove her to the airport and she said... . ":)o we have a serious monogamous relationship now? To which I replied... . "No, that was fun... . but I told you ... . that's not going to happen"... .   

In October she told me she broke up with her bf (3rd time) and I visited her for her birthday... .   had a really nice time... . and made plans to come back... .   Three weeks later... .   a text (after her disappearing for 24 hours which is universal signal for having sex) her text read... .   "Sorry, no easy way to say this. I am back with X. sorry"

I survived... .   can't teach an old dog new tricks... .   didn't love it but whatever... .   

So she finally comes to my city 4 weeks ago... . i see her text on her ipad that she is meeting an ex (for business)... .   when she gets back we have a fight,... . and when she gets home she disappears and leads me to believe she had sex with someone on a first date... . in fact she finally admits she was back yet again with boyfriend (4th break up) ... .

she comes back last week for 2nd round of job interview and it's all going great... .   I make nice plans for Saturday as she is sitting on the couch texting... . and she says "Tomorrow I have to go to a trade event"... .   My hair stands up and i say is it with X? she says ARE YOU BREAKING UP WITH ME?

And I try to explain my feelings... . i try to use tools i have learned here... .   and then I excused myself to go into the bathroom and think and after I come out I sit down and say... .   "You know, you have always accused me of breaking up with you when I didn't... .   I just committed to you w2 days ago to try again... .   This is the first commitment I have made since we ended the engagement... .   and I will tell you this clearly... .   and straight... .   YES. I AM BREAKING UP WITH YOU.

And we didn't fight or yell as she calmly and cooly packed her bags and left.

Now today she texts me "Btw, for the record, when asked if I would ever be with X again, my official answer was it wasn't likely but noting is impossible"

I went on to explain I felt it was almost a sort of a test and that she said it in a way that showed zero empathy or concern... . zero... .   

By the way... .   this is her twin sisters ex boyfriend! whom my ex dated and broke up with when in bed he called her by her twin's name! He then wanted to meet back them and she showed up WTIH ANOTHER GUY... .   

She did explain that she was sorry she was not soft but was bracing for me and was scared... . protective and that I threw in the towel within minutes and she never feels safe with me.

I said.I understand actually as how could she feel safe when she was acting in ways that made me feel unsafe... . and I explained... .   "OK, imagine I have a twin brother and I date his girlfriend after they were going out for two years... . I think end badly with her... .   and now I am meeting her for 3 hours at a trade show and suddenly tell you ... .   how would you react?

She said, "I think your reaction was somewhat immature and explosive"

LOL, she's sorta right... .

It's so frustrating... .   it's just maddening... .   i see at least she truly doesn't get it... .   it's like a 12 year old... .   she doesnt get it... .   she doesnt even mean harm

Almost makes it harder to understand and deal with it.

sorry for the long and redundant vent.

[HarmKrakow]

Mate, so much dysfunction it makes my head go dizzy. Like serious, it makes my head go dizzy. Most of what you endured here I've witnessed first hand as well and it feels like im witnessing my last few months with my ex again.

And you know what, reading all your stories makes me happy that i'm "done with" my BPD ex 

The mere thought of actually going through again what you wrote down here, is a bridge to far for me. I can't take another hit in my life by a BPD. I can't haha.

Utter respect for you that your still standing on 2 legs brother 

[Hurt llama]

Mate, so much dysfunction it makes my head go dizzy. Like serious, it makes my head go dizzy. Most of what you endured here I've witnessed first hand as well and it feels like im witnessing my last few months with my ex again.

And you know what, reading all your stories makes me happy that i'm "done with" my BPD ex 

The mere thought of actually going through again what you wrote down here, is a bridge to far for me. I can't take another hit in my life by a BPD. I can't haha.

Utter respect for you that your still standing on 2 legs brother 

I don't have the energy to write up the OP... .   (Original Pain)... .  

We met online... .   she lives a few thousand miles away... .   I was extremely uncomfortable in our online connection too... .   but when we met... .   holy cow... .   it was insane... .   both of us... .   she literally had to sit down... . it was overwhelming... .

But not too overwhelming that she started seeing someone else a few weeks later and finally when confronted said... .   "I went to him to see if I truly loved you"... .

I mean can you make this stuff up?

Then when she actually cheated (she's actually oddly not a cheater in the traditional sense) she said... . "WHY IS IT OK FOR MEN TO DO IT AND NOT WOMEN?"

It's 'funny' to look  back and see that I wasn't ever really unreasonable or a maniac about any of this... . my outrage was not about the act but was about the blaming me, etc.

She's not a rager, not a drunk... . it's bad that she's so close... .   it's just this 'one little thing''... .   .

I really start to feel that I'm the crazy one for how I react to her!

I am interested in how she responds to the flurry of texts i sent earlier... . the poor thing is really trying to get it... . she is... .   she just doesn't and can't... . and if I say it again... .   and louder... .   or more often... .   all I do is prove that I'm crazy... . and then she feels insecure because she's with someone crazy... .   haha... .  

[Hurt llama]

I meant Reality Distortion Field

Anyone read Steve Jobs biography? That guy was all sorts of personalty disorders!

[Hurt llama]

Well she texted me and I listened carefully .

I can see how the 20mg of Lexapro is helping her and at the same time these meds in my experience can add to their already detached selves... . or at least in her case.

She was cool and very well spoken... . SHe explained her position and did so extremely well.

Here are some snippets:

"THis is what I get for trying again. Once again the relationship is OVER"

"This is not what a marriage or relationship is supposed to be about. As usual you throw in the towel way to quickly"

OK, that set me off... .   I wrote about MY feelings and that she's not all wrong... .   and it's not about right or wrong but why can't she at least TRY to see it from my perspective? and I got nowhere... .   incredible... .   really. but i get why.

She explained it was a business networking event, It had nothing to do with the ex who took her there. She said she expected me to react as (yes she said this) a 'normal man'.

I of course reacted to that... .   WHAt?

then she said... .   "You are not stable. You may have been stable with other ex's and girlfriends but you are unstable with me" (holy moly)

I asked her to please stop calling me unstable... .   that it was not nice and can lead to nowhere good... . she replied, "Why? It's true and these are my feelings"

Obviously I was getting sucked into an area that had no upside... . i was starting to get mad and then she texts, "Listen. You can keep on typing. I don't want this to ruin my sleep. I will read your texts in the morning. Goodnight"

===

OK, more than just a rambling post in a redundant rambling thread.

This is good for me... .   and yeah I know I 'should not' require more 'proof'.

But here's my plan for myself... .   for the night I logged out of iMessage and blocked her number so that in the unlikely event she wakes up at 4am,, I dont have to get into this and destroy my day tomorrow.

I know that I cannot change her... . I accepted that and did try again... . I do love her and she is not all that bad other than insane... .   (that was for you Harm)... .   but the real point is that I am not moving from my position... .   I am not defending it or explaining it yet again... .   She's locked into her position and in her 'defense' she is stressed out of her mind... .   no job and waiting with baited breath for the official job offer that she is expecting... .   she's broke... .   was down to almost zero dollars... . this job is a 50-75% increase over last job... . it's an insane dream job for her and she lives for work... .   the woman goes nuts if she's not working... .   well 'goes nuts' is a bad description ... . haha

But regardless, she is sure of her position and believe it or not, I respect it, I understand it and all of that... .   she doesnt get that I wasn't telling her what to do but simply to express that I have feelings about her being with an ex lover and her twins ex lover... .   but what do i want? her to express shame? remorse? guilt? umm... .   yeah I do and that's part of the problem... .   obviously it's never going to happen.

If I had a wish it's always been for her to 'get it' but that's not happening and yeah maybe it could work if I followed the lessons here and worked with her and all... .   She's a great match for me... . she's loyal in her twisted way... .   blah blah blah... . but as I posted the other day... .   clearly I deserve more and better and to do the things required to make it work... .   would make me lose respect for myself and I cant do them even if i tried.

So what's the hold up here?

Crunch time... .   Time to be flat out honest.

I'm so connected to her I am afraid to let go... .   she feels it too of course... .  

and maybe I am making excuses for myself, I know I am... .   but I am journaling it all here for a reason... .   to keep a history and accountability of sorts.

I need to remind myself as this is all playing in the background, I do have my plan for myself to keep moving my work forward... .   She has been a very positive person in my life believe it or not... .   she has always encouraged me on a daily basis to take care of myself and do all the things that I need to do.

I'm trying to make her obsolete... .

And she's helping more than she knows.

[Hurt llama]

This might sound off or nuts but here it is.

In my mind now it's a 'race'... .   a healthy race.

a race I won't share with her... .

The race is against myself that I have to get stronger and faster so that I am in better shape and hopefully can heal before the next bomb blast comes.

Because I know... .   I so know... .   that I am vulnerable... . and that if I play with the tiger ... . i am gonna get hurt and that if I keep communicating as we continue as text friends, diollars to donuts that woman will find another guy so fast it's not funny... .   and my hunch which may be wrong is it will be the ex again... .   it's perfect!

And I am a sitting duck!

I better must and will get out of harms way... . because crazy is coming... .   and I can't take another bombing run with her and another guy... .

I have a plan... .   wish me luck... . i will need it.

I'll add ... . if she gets that job? It's two months in my town to train! OMG... .   the only good part of our long sordid relationship was it was 3K miles away! I have let the animal out of the cage by OFFICIALLY ending us... .   That is worse than North Korea right now... . She will launch... .   I don't blame her... . It's what she must do.

Time to activate detach mode... .   it's tricky but I can do it... .   and I know how... . this is the time... .   I won't go NC but it's Stage One LC... .   During that the rule is never to text first... .   do not call ever... .   no emailing... .   respond only if she reaches out first and keep it short on point and be careful.

During all this is to really work hard on my work and other good distractions... .

Stay tuned (if anyone is following! )

[Hurt llama]

I emailed her... .   and won't send anymore (please god)... . I'm trying to be soothing and careful... .   I dont want to hurt her or make her feel badly... .   It only comes back to hurt me if i do. her usual response via text is something really warm... . such as... . "You know I delete all of your emails anyway. You send too many"

==

ok, I got it.

you think I am unstable…I think I am unstable around you and your behavior is erratic at times and confusing often... .

but i think you are doing better and better and I know you are trying.

I don't want to get into labeling you... . i have told you my thoughts to try to help and I have stopped as it's not helpful and no one can make anyone see anything... . it is all individual process.

anyway, please stop the mea culpa thing…i got hurt too... .


and as said, sure, i can see your side and view but you don't see mine... . you do not give one iota any of my feelings and its incredible... . but maybe 20mg of Lexapro actually can detach someone in good and bad ways... . i think it's good for you but you seem so ice cold to me…hard to describe exactly but wondering why you are so hard to me... .

anyway…please stop[ the victim thing... . i have been there for you... . i have put my hand in my pocket and when you were with X and trying to act like you were not.

I have lent you money ... . I have supported you emotionally and mentally and in all ways that I can…

You refuse to see how I felt last Saturday.I was so happy to be spending the day with you... . i wanted to make plans ….I do not do wwll with surprises and obviously I have a HUGE problem with you being around ex lovers and I am sorry that's not so unusual... . especially as you made it clear you would consider him if not with me….and I bet anything he's considering it too... . and the thought of that makes me want to projectile vomit and how you my so called soulmate can't even see any of how i feel is incredibly painful to me.

I don't want to hurt you anymore.

[Hurt llama]

oops... .   couldn't edit... .

the last line was important... .

We ended years ago... . and it was over forever last NYE…and what I need you don't have... . and what you need I don't have.

===

[Hurt llama]

I must add this to my journal... .   it's priceless... .

when I was out to dinner with her after finding the used condom... .   it was a dark romantic restaurant... . I had hours to calm down and I was all cleaned up, relaxed, well dressed and on medication and a few beers ... .  

I was just staring at her as she was talking... .   and i waited to a pause and said in a calm voice, "Baby, you know we have been fighting a lot since I got here and I don't want to upset you anymore. I really don't. But, well, today I was um, cleaning up, and I could not help but notice a used condom in the trash"

She turned green and cooly replied, "I am sorry you had to see that"

but as we talked a bit more then came the punchline I am so glad I just remembered and will never forget.

She smiled and said, ":)o you realize how many men would consider themselves lucky to be in your shoes?"

(I'm not making up a word of this)

Two days later when I left, I also left a pair of shoes and I said they are for the next guy to wear so he knows what it's like to be in my shoes.

What a thing to have said to me... .   She's really a piece of work.

[Surrender]

WOW Hurt llama... .   I'm so sorry for such pain and agony in light of loving someone and being helpless in that. How the obscure and narcissistic deadly charm can even damage one in light of 'reason' and all things rational yet there we are.

You did good leaving your shoes behind.   

[Hurt llama]

WOW Hurt llama... .   I'm so sorry for such pain and agony in light of loving someone and being helpless in that. How the obscure and narcissistic deadly charm can even damage one in light of 'reason' and all things rational yet there we are.

You did good leaving your shoes behind.   

Thank you CW... . She actually sent me a new pair of shoes when I got home. True story

She's texting me about work and like a drone I respond in 5 words and say things like "That's great. you are good at that" and "Smart. good decision".

I'm so drained... .   Whether she gets a job and comes to train in my town or not, it shouldn't matter... .

I don't know how I am going to survive NC... .   right now I'm going to try to just focus on my day... . and don't engage in going over the autopsy for the 1000th time... .   She did score a hit by calling me unstable.

I made a 30 second video of a giraffe falling over with a voiceover about instability... .

I think I am wasting my creativity... .   just a little... .  

[Surrender]

Thank you CW... . She actually sent me a new pair of shoes when I got home. True story

She's texting me about work and like a drone I respond in 5 words and say things like "That's great. you are good at that" and "Smart. good decision".

I'm so drained... .   Whether she gets a job and comes to train in my town or not, it shouldn't matter... .

I don't know how I am going to survive NC... .   right now I'm going to try to just focus on my day... . and don't engage in going over the autopsy for the 1000th time... .   She did score a hit by calling me unstable.

I made a 30 second video of a giraffe falling over with a voiceover about instability... .

I think I am wasting my creativity... .   just a little... .  

Hurt llama, I enjoy reading anything you write because I can see the wealth of knowledge, the intelligence and compassion. What I have noticed about the people here is that these traits are in abundance here. That made me feel better because for a while I was doubting my intelligence, wisdom, my ability to process information correctly, what I was seeing and believing and the things I was doubting and denying in general. I see by being here that if anything it appears that the intelligently complex individual endowed with much seems to be able to 'endure' loving our even more complex exes whom suffer this illness.

Your expression in writing reflects your creativity and even though I know this is ultimately so tragic, I couldn't help but laugh when reading how you described yourself actually giving non-answers which would have been obvious to the world around you with the exception of your ex who is just happy to be engaging I guess. I do seem to always get gobsmacked when I hear us being called the 'unstable' ones.

The fact that you can make a falling giraffe with a voice over about it is awesome. It is healthy to be using your creativity and sense of humor to get through this. What ever it takes. The first 3 weeks of N/C were for me the worst, it has gone from agony to bearable agony so far. I suspect time will ease it bit by bit because I can see an improvement between now and three weeks ago. It's still hell though.  :'(

You have a wonderful sense of humor and I find it helpful to read the things you write so thank you. 

[Hurt llama]

Hurt llama, I enjoy reading anything you write because I can see the wealth of knowledge, the intelligence and compassion. What I have noticed about the people here is that these traits are in abundance here. That made me feel better because for a while I was doubting my intelligence, wisdom, my ability to process information correctly, what I was seeing and believing and the things I was doubting and denying in general. I see by being here that if anything it appears that the intelligently complex individual endowed with much seems to be able to 'endure' loving our even more complex exes whom suffer this illness.

Your expression in writing reflects your creativity and even though I know this is ultimately so tragic, I couldn't help but laugh when reading how you described yourself actually giving non-answers which would have been obvious to the world around you with the exception of your ex who is just happy to be engaging I guess. I do seem to always get gobsmacked when I hear us being called the 'unstable' ones.

The fact that you can make a falling giraffe with a voice over about it is awesome. It is healthy to be using your creativity and sense of humor to get through this. What ever it takes. The first 3 weeks of N/C were for me the worst, it has gone from agony to bearable agony so far. I suspect time will ease it bit by bit because I can see an improvement between now and three weeks ago. It's still hell though.  :'(

You have a wonderful sense of humor and I find it helpful to read the things you write so thank you.  [/quote]
That's a really nice post to read. Thank you very much for sharing with me.

I think I watched the video I made last night about 5 times, laughing out loud each time... .

=======

This is shot on my bed with my iphone as I am holding the iPhone, trying to get the Giraffe to stand up and using my hand as the Llama Character speaking to my dog and giraffe... .

Here's the dialogue:

Llama: Did you hear the one about The Llama and the Giraffe?

Llama; No? ah ok. Ah this is hard to do this... .   (talking shooting and holding the giraffe).

Llama: (Talking to the Giraffe) Don't fall down! You sem... .   un-stable... . ha ha ha

Llama: (giraffe falls over) Ooops, you were unstable. You see? Good night.

My dog was really funny wiht his expression that seemed to be saying a combination of "What the heck?" and "I am embarrassed for you"

But I have written my experiences, especially last new years eve... .   and I wrote it as a beautiful funny and a bit ironic... .   It was a love story believe it or not... .   MY character in the story was ridiculous... . as my reactions were ridiculous and compared to my ex who was cool, calm, collected, reasonable... .   I come off sounding like a raving madman... .

I sent it to her and well... .   she didn't appreciate my perspective... .   (duh)

My story feels to be unusual in the context here and yet it's more the same than different... . The absurdity of my BPD ex's way of seeing things is just mind boggling... .   And even though I know her for almost 6 years... .   it is only very recently that I see her as this almost 'blank' even innocent, hurt child... .   She just doesn't get it... . I know we all know what I mean about that... .

As in all humor, it's based a bit on anger and pain... .   and I do try to experience my life creatively and somehow find catharsis in stressful relationships like this... .

I clearly see the danger though... . The tragic sadness and it's horrible... .   I am not out of the woods yet... .   I feel like posting here is like being in a 12 step program and we each get up and admit or speak about our past and present and if we slip... .   we talk about it... .

And yet, I feel if I slip again... .   I will be too embarrassed to admit it... .   as I have wanted 'evidence' or 'proof' that my ex just can't give me what I need... .   and the hardest part is that there is so much compatibility there... .  

(as i say this , I can't help but here voices... .   voices that give examples of maybe that's not what real 'compatibility' is... . and that her warped reality in which she can dump me in October to go back with her boyfriend but find it to painful to hear about me dating is for lack of a better word... .   nuts!

We are all very individual and as others post, the process is of course individual in the lessons we can or do learn... . The question of if and why do we need such extreme behavior from our ex's for us to maybe learn the lesson is something I think about daily.

There is addiction that I hate to admit... . I dont want to admit... .   I rather talk about 'process' and lessons that need to be learned than think about the fact, I feel lost without connecting... .   and dread imagining her dating again and the insanity on my part is yet again I have dropped her! and that i have created the scenario in which I clearly can and will be hurt if I allow it.

Thank you for reading this crazy journal of sorts. Not very proud of it.

[Surrender]

It is a profound combination of things and yet what you said about 'addiction' hit me like a ton of bricks. With my ex I felt alive and truly awake which is one of the many things I loved about being with him. His ability to constantly assess everything around him put me on alert 24/7 yet it made me thrive unlike ever before. I thrived because 'everything was on the line' constantly and there was something about that that made my heart really pump. Feelings came with what I perceived as 'real conversation, reflection and a consciousness that made you be accountable for your actions even if it was uncomfortable or made you really think about how you behaved or what ever. Thing is, I loved being finally able to be like that with a man. Throughout my life ALL my relationships were lame and relatively 'un-alive' compared to my ex-UBPD and to be honest, I actually was so "UN" everything with all my exes no matter how handsome, intelligent or what ever they were that I couldn't bear it. I was utterly STIMULATED with my ex.

I loved my ex more because he forced me to account for 'everything' and that made me think twice in a good way. I had never been with a man who could have such an effect on me before. In my past men if anything just let me be... .   for fear of my opposition and strength and to be honest, I think things got lost along the way between men and women in the murky waters of all that this world has now become in the realm of all things 'undefined' between what a man and woman are separately and together. My ex broke that mold and knew he was a man and as a man knew what he liked and didn't like in a woman, however his illness exaggerated everything to the umpf degree which made it UN-liveable. But I felt so ALIVE with him and I fear that I won't ever have that again. Just feels like it's all down hill from here as strange as that may sound so I get exactly the struggle you find yourself in not wanting to lose or share her but also finding yourself at the cross roads where you know you just can't keep doing this anymore either.

Learning these lessons and processing and even time just don't take the edge off the pain. Today I plummeted wandering around my place aimless, forgetting where I left everything and then suddenly I broke out crying and heard the words "I miss you baby" as I was crying.

No easy way out.

[Hurt llama]

I get it... . totally... .

I'm no 'role model' (obviously) but... .   I can share (some) positives that I want to share and hopefully gives you a little faith... .

I do know that the devastation I felt early on when I learned my ex was dating someone at the same time as me (not the end of the world or sick but extremely disturbing... . ) but when she disappeared when we had made the commitment it was infidelity... . the first I have ever experienced... .   and it was like I was dying... . i was crying like a baby... . primal... .   I was in complete shock... . utter disbelief... .   I got her back (vomit at this thought) ... .

My point is that as this relationship has developed the dispair and the feelings of grief are a small fraction of what they were... .   In the beginning I would come home at night and beat the bed in anger... .   as hard as i could... . i hurt myself I was so angry... . and I stopped in the middle and said to myself... . "Would you hit her if you could?" and I knew, I never could I would die first.

I have ripped myself to tiny pieces... .   examining everything... . over and over... .   walking around my house calling her horrible names (she was 3000 miles away)... . I was going out to strip clubs every single night for over 300 nights... .   I called it the Den of the Sociopath... . (I thought she was a sociopath)... . I sold the watch I bought her to fund this 'experiment'. I talked to my therapist about it and she didn't discourage this journey of discover... . I envisioned myself as this artist and that going into the Sociopath's Lair and 'mastering' it, I would emerge stronger... .   I owned the place... .   almost literally... .   I was the master of this dark environment... .  

I dated a girl half my age... .   and it was 10x more pain than with my ex... .   it was insane... .   I needed her to forget my ex... .   but the damage I experienced with her (NPD, etc duh) was the stuff nightmares were made of... .   and I did it anyway... .   I drank every night... . but was not addicted and I wasn't I guess.

I went through a love of this girl (we actually survived it all and it was a very intense rare bond even as dysfunctional as it sounds (and was)... .  

I am grateful to her... .   and as expected, the girl I chose was a very special person... .   there was rough and tough times but I did emerge stronger and better from it... .  

But not cured either... .

Here's a couple of songs I have been playing over and over... .  

It does get better... . but I wish I could speak from a much further along place.

as of right now... .   my new habit is to log out of iMessage, block her calls and texts and at least protect myself for 10 hours. The real truth is I am 10x worse than my ex... . I pester her constantly with texts... . pictures and emails... .   I keep her engaged and I see and know that I am more than playing with fire... . I set her free... .   and what do I want now?.

I forget the song... . maybe Eminem... . where he kills his gf, buries her and digs her up to kill her again... . and that's what it feels I want to do... . I think my anger for the infidelity 5 years ago, never was resolved and the trust was shattered and I got her back, got engaged and got in deep then blew her away in her worst possible care scenario... . Was it revenge? No, not completely... .   do I regret it? sometimes and sometimes I smile and think... . "don't f with me"... . Or I tell myself that to feel better... . there is no winning I have learned.

you sound like a creative type as well. I worry my art is effected and not in a good way... .   I am numb and frozen most of the time... .   Need to break on through.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5OmSI3vAl8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDvisTysjlQ

Jack White is my hero... .  

[Hurt llama]

and yes... .   same here wth my ex... .   I felt more alive than ever... . more engaged... . more in love (obviously)

I am "gratified' in knowing that she will never experience anything again like what we experienced together... . But part of me wishes we both could get that feeling again with other partners... .   even if she met someone else... .   if she were happy and it was real, it might teach me and show me what is possible... .   but I know and she knows it just isn't going to happen... . and I dont say that with happiness.

I related to what you described and I delighted in my ex's ability to appreciate life... .   like a child... . she was delighted in small things (same as me) and how I de;ighted her with character's I created... .   she was enthralled... . she would shake her head constantly wondering aloud "You have ruined me forever... . I will never meet anyone like you again"... .   (gee thanks for sharing baby... . )

But she took special joy in cooking, shopping and really had a childlike way of experiencing things... . I loved it and loved her more even when I see and saw it just can't work without her participating with me to make it work... .  

I thought I could do it alone... .   after reading Staying here on the forum... .   But we don't have kids together... .   I dont have the need to make this work no matter what... .   and I cant even if I tried... . and I did try... .   and I dont blame her entirely... .

For myself, I a not especially proud of my 'plan' on recovery... .   it's bs really... .   we texted 100x today... . finally she disappeared and I sent a last text and shut it down.

She's broke... .   dead broke... .   awaiting word of a dream job she is probably going to get... .   and she asked to borrow money and I sent it... .   She oddly always pays me back... . ... .

But she is trying to get her life in order... .   she is probably as tough as I am (ugh) resolute in her way... .   unyielding... . I have to respect her for this... . she suffers from severe anxiety... .   taking meds for it but she will cry and tremble under her bed like a cat... . and yet she is stoic and manages to rise up when the chips are down... .

She scares the crap out of me.

I have true PTSD here... .   and shake when I imagine her with a new guy or her ancient ridiculous ex... .   I feel the text coming... .   saying... .   "I am with someone else... . Sorry it didn't work out. Be well."

BE WELL ... .   ... .   to me that reads as 'f you'... .   and her way of texting 'thx' at the end of a text reads as 'GFY".

Not making this up... .   haha

[Surrender]

But she is trying to get her life in order... .   she is probably as tough as I am (ugh) resolute in her way... .   unyielding... . I have to respect her for this... . she suffers from severe anxiety... .   taking meds for it but she will cry and tremble under her bed like a cat... . and yet she is stoic and manages to rise up when the chips are down... .

She scares the crap out of me.

I have true PTSD here... .   and shake when I imagine her with a new guy or her ancient ridiculous ex... .   I feel the text coming... .   saying... .   "I am with someone else... . Sorry it didn't work out. Be well."

BE WELL ... .   ... .   to me that reads as 'f you'... .   and her way of texting 'thx' at the end of a text reads as 'GFY".

Not making this up... .   haha

oh geesh you just reminded me... .   for me it was "your always in my prayers" or "rest well and try not to think too much" which also was a glorious 'GFY'.

What you said about your exes strength was quite something in light of what she battles within herself. Quite something and sad. That is what I find strange is the 'strength' and super resilience considering a constant array of sabotaging and constant suffering. My ex was the epitome of 'stubborn', if he made a decision about something than it was cut in stone and immoveable. That is why this last break up was the real thing... .   it wasn't the usual push and pull with regrets and sadness. It was the stern cold impersonal voice that spoke to me. I felt like I was talking to a collections agency personnel. That impersonal voice that said I have been cut in stone and am now immoveable. His words were "I'm firm and won't change my mind". Then of course at the end was his lovely "your always in my prayers" (puke) and 'FYVM'.

I agree the beauty we see in our exes is hard to compare and in my mind with my ex unparalleled. Comparatively speaking my exes were a blank slate but when we can draw upon so many qualities that we loved and adored that filled our cup, it makes it understandable why your still texting 100x a day. Sometimes I wish I was in the position but it's only the part of me that is still hanging onto the dream of it all.

I'm still trying to wake up and meet this reality head on without trying to fool myself anymore. I think when a couple is closely enmeshed with a focused 'need' that compliments one another and the couple as a whole, that makes it tough to beat and tougher to walk away from.

You've an incredible noggin and heart to boot so sunshiny days somewhere down the road are coming I'm sure, though it doesn't feel like that is even possible but I sure hope that is the case for us... .   cuz the world sure does seem dim in comparison to him.

As for me I bought a PS3 with a ton of games for some escape therapy.

And agreed, Jack White for sure.

[Hurt llama]

hahaha... .   "always in my prayers" it really sounds like a fy... .   so funny... .  

I'm so damaged from this if I communicate with any woman and she texts or writes "Be well'... .   I know there's not chance... .

The funny part is I told my ex... .   that when she says "Be Well" it annoys me to no end... .  

She decided the new thing to say to me to annoy me is to call me "bro'... .   Bro?

I do have to laugh though as it is funny... .   I just signed into my imessage account for a minute and I got her texts from earlier tonight... .

In them she said she called to share a really nice story... .   about a friend of her friend and how she did some casual consulting for a couple of hours and he insisted on giving her a beautiful $500 dress (he owns a dress shop).

The interesting thing is that she went out of her way to tell me that he is 'confirmed gay' and that "You will just love this dress"... .

I actually do sort of appreciate the manners of assuring me that this was a gay man (my ex has a very odd habit of not lying... .   I know that sounds weird but she doesnt lie and rather uses her direct bluntness as a hammer of sorts... .   it's almost chilling at times)... .

It's sad how she refers to the dress and how I will love it... .   she's such a child... .   it's depressing... .   she just can't get it... .   and this is the maddening part... .   to any normal person... .   you would give in a little... .   from what i am learning about BPD is that to acknowledge certain things within themselves is very very painful... . It explains how hard I have made it as I have no problem acknowledging the darkside of my own self and we all have parts of our selves we are not proud of... .

The BPD doesn't seem to be able to express shame, empathy or remorse.

But she got a pretty new dress... . maybe we can video chat so I can see it... .   noo

[Surrender]

hahaha... .   "always in my prayers" it really sounds like a fy... .   so funny... .  

I'm so damaged from this if I communicate with any woman and she texts or writes "Be well'... .   I know there's not chance... .

The funny part is I told my ex... .   that when she says "Be Well" it annoys me to no end... .  

She decided the new thing to say to me to annoy me is to call me "bro'... .   Bro?

I do have to laugh though as it is funny... .   I just signed into my imessage account for a minute and I got her texts from earlier tonight... .

I actually do sort of appreciate the manners of assuring me that this was a gay man (my ex has a very odd habit of not lying... .   I know that sounds weird but she doesnt lie and rather uses her direct bluntness as a hammer of sorts... .   it's almost chilling at times)... .



It's sad how she refers to the dress and how I will love it... .   she's such a child... .   it's depressing... .   she just can't get it... .   and this is the maddening part... .   to any normal person... .   you would give in a little... .   from what i am learning about BPD is that to acknowledge certain things within themselves is very very painful... . It explains how hard I have made it as I have no problem acknowledging the darkside of my own self and we all have parts of our selves we are not proud of... .

The BPD doesn't seem to be able to express shame, empathy or remorse.

But she got a pretty new dress... . maybe we can video chat so I can see it... .   noo

Yes it is amazing how those experiences now become our triggers. Your the first person that has an ex who has referred to the Not Lying that I have read of so far which is interesting because mine was the exact same. In fact that was paramount to him, hence how he spent his life scrutinizing EVERYTHING I ever said and did even if I was referring to something that happened 20 years ago... .   if there was anything he could find in the form of a discrepancy than I was utterly devoured by his scrutinizing wrath. Well she got a nice pretty dress and I'm sure that will make her happy for tonight. It's one day at a time after all.

What you said about the BPD not being able to express shame, empathy or remorse is so interesting to me. Is that because that would shatter EVERYTHING and hence they would then totally self-destruct? I read that their brains fire differently and that certain areas remain inactive that are typically active in normal people, hence how they respond to emotions and to what they are perceiving.  It is fascinating but as I read about it I feel what I felt with my ex which was a sense of helplessness. Like nothing I did or could do would alter or change anything.

I felt utterly helpless and just had to witness the train wreck coming my way without being able to change a thing.

[goldylamont]

daaaaaaaaaaamn! i think i'm lucky i don't keep in contact with my ex so much. i just got back on these boards b/c she decided to text/call me all the sudden after she broke up with her current bf. i'm seeing someone now, and happy, so i have this to protect me, but good grief i dunno i'd have to be really strong to completely ice her out and not say anything back if i weren't in a relationship. good luck Hurt llama, you know, maybe there's some tricks you can come up with that will force you to not be able to contact her? or for her to not contact you? i dunno, i have to think about it. like, for me i tend to do the all-or-nothing approach--like 6 months ago i put all my cards on the table, layed out exactly how i felt in a love letter, then gave it about a 10% chance of working out how i wanted. it didn't, but then this was perfect b/c i had my answer, you know? man, it's really hard detaching i know, is there any way you could maybe do some self examination, figure out specifically what you'd need from her and then find a way to find out if she would comply? this is what kind of worked for me; it's like i knew beforehand it wasn't going to work out, but i forced the situation so that i would SEE it for myself. not sure if this makes sense. good luck with it though

[Hurt llama]

daaaaaaaaaaamn! i think i'm lucky i don't keep in contact with my ex so much. i just got back on these boards b/c she decided to text/call me all the sudden after she broke up with her current bf. i'm seeing someone now, and happy, so i have this to protect me, but good grief i dunno i'd have to be really strong to completely ice her out and not say anything back if i weren't in a relationship. good luck Hurt llama, you know, maybe there's some tricks you can come up with that will force you to not be able to contact her? or for her to not contact you? i dunno, i have to think about it. like, for me i tend to do the all-or-nothing approach--like 6 months ago i put all my cards on the table, layed out exactly how i felt in a love letter, then gave it about a 10% chance of working out how i wanted. it didn't, but then this was perfect b/c i had my answer, you know? man, it's really hard detaching i know, is there any way you could maybe do some self examination, figure out specifically what you'd need from her and then find a way to find out if she would comply? this is what kind of worked for me; it's like i knew beforehand it wasn't going to work out, but i forced the situation so that i would SEE it for myself. not sure if this makes sense. good luck with it though

It's one day at a time... .   I know right now I am not really open to other women... .   that's unusual for me... . I am shut down and maybe that makes sense... . feels weird though... .

Your last sentence about specifically saying what I need from her is exactly what I just did... .   and in her defense... .   she had no chance... .   none... .   I have a distorted view of her... .   I really do... . I'm not defending her even slightly but I see her in ways she just isn't... . but it doesnt' matter as at the core I know my fear of her is justified and that without empathy or a sense of understanding of how I felt when she was attending a event with an ex,, there is no chance... . zero, nada, none... .  

it's the 'line in the sand' moment we all face at some point when we are crystal clear... .   It's not even about me being 'right' anymore... .   She just doesnt get it... . doesnt get why it might bother me even though i accepted she has some business connection wtih this guy... .

Even if I am wrong... . to me... .   it literally is like handing her knife and asking her to stick it in my heart... .  

I'm not giving myself an out here but even if i see her again and we have sex and all that... .   there is no chance... . i have to organically accept (and I am) that as another poster shared here... .   she is an untamed stallion... . she can't be ridden for long... . she needs to be free even if she says she doesn't... .   she will throw me or any man... .   and she thinks the fact she was married for so long is 'proof' that she is stable... .   sorry baby... . no... .   you lost it when you had your first baby... . and in my opinion it triggered her and she went full Vampire after that... .

let me know what you come up with for my plan though!

All suggestions welcome and a silver bullet or stake and hammer is appreciated.

[goldylamont]

hahaha... .   "always in my prayers" it really sounds like a fy... .   so funny... .  

I'm so damaged from this if I communicate with any woman and she texts or writes "Be well'... .   I know there's not chance... .

The funny part is I told my ex... .   that when she says "Be Well" it annoys me to no end... .  

She decided the new thing to say to me to annoy me is to call me "bro'... .   Bro?

I do have to laugh though as it is funny... .   I just signed into my imessage account for a minute and I got her texts from earlier tonight... .

I actually do sort of appreciate the manners of assuring me that this was a gay man (my ex has a very odd habit of not lying... .   I know that sounds weird but she doesnt lie and rather uses her direct bluntness as a hammer of sorts... .   it's almost chilling at times)... .



It's sad how she refers to the dress and how I will love it... .   she's such a child... .   it's depressing... .   she just can't get it... .   and this is the maddening part... .   to any normal person... .   you would give in a little... .   from what i am learning about BPD is that to acknowledge certain things within themselves is very very painful... . It explains how hard I have made it as I have no problem acknowledging the darkside of my own self and we all have parts of our selves we are not proud of... .

The BPD doesn't seem to be able to express shame, empathy or remorse.

But she got a pretty new dress... . maybe we can video chat so I can see it... .   noo

Yes it is amazing how those experiences now become our triggers. Your the first person that has an ex who has referred to the Not Lying that I have read of so far which is interesting because mine was the exact same. In fact that was paramount to him, hence how he spent his life scrutinizing EVERYTHING I ever said and did even if I was referring to something that happened 20 years ago... .   if there was anything he could find in the form of a discrepancy than I was utterly devoured by his scrutinizing wrath. Well she got a nice pretty dress and I'm sure that will make her happy for tonight. It's one day at a time after all.

What you said about the BPD not being able to express shame, empathy or remorse is so interesting to me. Is that because that would shatter EVERYTHING and hence they would then totally self-destruct? I read that their brains fire differently and that certain areas remain inactive that are typically active in normal people, hence how they respond to emotions and to what they are perceiving.  It is fascinating but as I read about it I feel what I felt with my ex which was a sense of helplessness. Like nothing I did or could do would alter or change anything.

I felt utterly helpless and just had to witness the train wreck coming my way without being able to change a thing.

CryingWings and Hurt llama--I literally woke up this morning with your above responses about Brutal Honesty and Not Lying on my mind. This struck me too as I feel my exBPDgf in many ways was also very truthful. I've witnessed her actually being very truthful and compassionate or not in many situations--but here's the deal; i truly feel most of this is an illusion. I'd like to try and shift your awareness for a moment, let's look at things in a different light.

Brutal Honesty is often not (honest); Emotional Violence is what your experiencing. There's rarely Honesty in Brutality. Let's refocus the lens and instead of calling it Brutal Honesty (which would be TRUE yet Painful), and instead call it Emotional Violence, which is PAINFUL, because it uses Painful Truths... .   masked in a web of LIES. See the difference? The reason why EV hurts so much is b/c there's a hefty amount of Truth in it, but it's the manipulative LIE that is the dagger driving the puny amount of truth into our soul.

The TRUTH is the TRUTH, it can hurt, a lot, but the TRUTH always heals eventually. But, LIES? LIES hurt, but unlike TRUTH Lies NEVER Heal!

Hurt llama, I'd like to use a story of yours as an example. And, I hope you are ok with this; but this is my analyses that came to me this morning as a waking dream: You told a story about finding a used condom in the waste basket; then later bringing it up to her at dinner. Now looking back, you refer to her Brutal Honesty and the fact that she said "I'm sorry you had to see that." That is Emotional Violence my friend, not Brutal Honesty. These are just questions, and if I'm way off base then my apologies, but just my thoughts. Let's look at this through another lens--most women just don't make these kinds of mistakes; kidding me? "forgetting" about a condom in a trash can? knowing that she was leaving you at her home all day? i swear us guys are the only breed dumb enough to leave used condoms around by accident. i doubt this was a mistake. i bet on some level, conscious or no, she wanted to put you in your friggin place. You may call it Brutal Honesty b/c at dinner she told you what you thought was the Truth, but that truth hurt. But, could it be that the words "I'm sorry that you had to see that" meant exactly the opposite? Oh yeah, it's True the condom was there, and oh boy we give her so much credit for being "honest" and not "lying" about being with another guy, right? This is the woman you've repeatedly said is incapable of caring about your feelings at all--think she really was "sorry you had to see that"? Or do you think she felt safer, felt better, because this "accident" kept you under her thumb? The beauty of it being, you get emotionally crushed, at the same time congratulating her for her "honesty".

Once I had NC for several months I started seeing manipulations and "truths" through a different lens. It's literally scary. They say BPD occurs because of trauma that happens during childhood, so your ex prolly has at least 2? 3? DECADES of masterful manipulation skills at her disposal. For me it took seeing some similar memories I had through this different lens (EV instead of BH), and then i was like "ooh isht!". Straight up Lies are weak sauce. It's harsh Truth wrapped in lies that devastate. Am I way off base with my analyses? Go through other memories with this lens and let me know your thoughts... .  

(p.s. i should note that this "lens" get's clearer i believe with more NC)

[Hurt llama]

It was the first time I was coming back to see her after a couple of years before ending the engagement... . it was push pull bigtime over that period... .   canceling my last plans to come that year on my birthday via a voicemail message.

Her honestly is just interesting... .   I don't think it's admirable as honesty would be considered in a normal person. No, you got it exactly right.

But you are giving her too much credit with her honesty... .   it's not as complicated as that... . it's more of a childish way of being honest to hurt... . it's not powerful... . it's pathetic.

When she picked me up at the airport she was chilly... .   and I booked a hotel room as i didn't feel it was a good idea to stay with her... . and yet she drove directly to her apartment and I think we were in bed within a few minutes (meanwhile unbeknownst to me there was a used condom in the trash next to the bed, left by a 'friend'... . )

When we had sex again on NYE and she had a wildly powerful orgasm that was when I commented... . "wow, when was the last time that happened?" I wasn't trying to start a fight... . it was a funny comment... . but she started yelling at me (she almost never yells."WHO OR WHEN I HAVE SEX IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". Which meant she was sexually active recently.

In other words she was dying to tell me... . and it is not a coincidence there was a used condom in the garbage... . who does that? omg... . I feel sick thinking about this... . She is so sick... .   and she is as resolute as I am in her position... . she honestly believes that there was no agreement prior to me coming there... .   and in 'fairness' to her mentally ill self... . I can see how she sees it that way... .   as 'truth' to her about past events is mostly influenced by her current state of mind. Truth is flexible.

To be 'fair' or to be as objective as possible... .   My ex is honest with me and direct and yes some of it is twisted in that it doesn't follow 'normal' social conventions of appropriate or respect for boundaries... . But I much prefer that to dealing with a liar... .

Thank you for thinking about this and sharing it with me... .   I have more to post as she is texting me all sorts of stuff pulling me in and at the same time making hard to understand references to her exbf and how he is clear it is over... . We texted 10x about this and I have no idea what she was really saying... .   if he called her and said it was over or she called him... . it was so confusing it's not even worth any more mental energy thinking about it.

She's acting very odd but it's par for the course... .   she's not an evil mean thing... . she's almost a helpless child but... .   it's also like a child with a loaded gun... .   she can really hurt me... .

[Hurt llama]

i dont know why this popped into my head but I just remembered my exBPD has no sense of 'irony'' zero... .   no appreciation of ironic coincidence... .   hard to explain but it was something i took notice of early on... . It bugged me... .  

It felt like some extreme detachement but to each their own of course but a lack of irony? what a thing to notice... . not sure why it came to mind right now... .

[Surrender]

Brutal Honesty is often not (honest); Emotional Violence is what your experiencing. There's rarely Honesty in Brutality.

Let's refocus the lens and instead of calling it Brutal Honesty (which would be TRUE yet Painful), and instead call it Emotional Violence, which is PAINFUL, because it uses Painful Truths... .   masked in a web of LIES. See the difference? The reason why EV hurts so much is b/c there's a hefty amount of Truth in it, but it's the manipulative LIE that is the dagger driving the puny amount of truth into our soul.

The TRUTH is the TRUTH, it can hurt, a lot, but the TRUTH always heals eventually. But, LIES? LIES hurt, but unlike TRUTH Lies NEVER Heal!

The beauty of it being, you get emotionally crushed, at the same time congratulating her for her "honesty".

It's harsh Truth wrapped in lies that devastate. Am I way off base with my analyses? Go through other memories with this lens and let me know your thoughts... .  

(p.s. i should note that this "lens" get's clearer i believe with more NC)

WOW you blew my mind Goldylamont because this is the thing I kept processing over and over again. It never felt right, his brutal cruel honesty. It always felt instead like a cruel attack. He justified himself and his punitive behaviors by always holding that 'truth flag' and felt that no matter how mean, cruel or verbally abusive he was sounding he felt because he was speaking truth that it was justified so his behavior was exempt. In effect by utilizing truth he gave himself permission under that banner to not take responsibility for his abuse and brutality. This also vindicated his belief that I was always in the wrong and he was coming from the correct version of things.

This bothered me to no end because somehow I could see or feel a very dangerous manipulation using some truth and distorting it all. Reading what you wrote hit the nail on the head, the nail that I was searching for to make sense of what I was seeing, feeling and detecting. A dangerous game indeed because in all his honest truths he said things to me that I can't ever forget or forgive him for. He altered everything forever by going that far and words are far more powerful and destructive than being slapped.

I am beginning to see what you are referring to by the lies being masked in the truth. I'm sitting here gobsmacked because you just confirmed and explained the very prickly thing that I have been trying to zero in on. My exes version of exhaling the fire of his truth on a person was more like submitting to being skinned alive or repeatedly stabbed by a sword. It didn't feel like the truth because it is like you said, there was no healing in it. It only made me feel utterly attacked and gave me wounds that never healed. These just added up and there wasn't anything positive that came from it even though in his mind he was teaching me a lesson that I deserved or something in his exaggerated ill mind.

In honesty, his 'truth' always felt like a brutal attack and just plain mean. He had zero consciousness of people's feelings, which is what Hurt llama was saying how often they lack empathy or remorse. For my ex he didn't care that he was destroying you with 'his version' of truth, he didn't care that he was cutting you into pieces. The more cruel he could explain his 'Truth' the better he felt. It was all anger and hatred coming out of him when that happened.

A huge thanks... .   I'll be processing this for a while and please share more.  

[goldylamont]

CryingWings, i can't express how happy i am that this helped. i see myself reflected in your words and thoughts in the response, so, i'm learning from you too 

Here's the deal--here's what i had to do and I'd like for all of us to try and do this (Hurt llama, you especially bro!). Try to take a step back away from the BPD  Said like a cop "Sir/Ma'am, please take a step back from the BPD, there's nothing to see hear." Step back = Zoom out = Forget for a minute everything about the BPD and look at the situation through a new lens, zoomed out from BPD and also from your surrounding emotions.

Now, without thinking of WHY/HOW a person with BPD would act like this, let's just acknowledge the act DID in fact happen. We don't care why, we just know it did, repeatedly.

Last step! Now, how did YOU feel in this situation? Did you experience emotional violence (EV), sometimes so powerful it affected you physically (nervous shaking, butterflies in stomach, etc.)? How did YOU feel? How did YOU feel?

^^That's it. How YOU felt at the moment is YOUR TRUTH. Now that we know the Truth that our trusty bodies have informed us of, ACCEPT this gift of Insight!

Ask ourselves, how often does EV occur to you "by mistake"?

In my opinion, a synonym for a person with BPD is MASTER MANIPULATOR. Why? They have been practicing the art of EV for DECADES usually by the time we meet them. Out of self protection/preservation? Maybe. Because of childhood trauma? Perhaps. But, it's important to remove your focus Off of the reasons and shift your awareness to the reality of what they are Doing. What is their behavior? What did they actually do?

Look at their Actions, never their Words

Drop your thoughts, then remember how You felt, then Accept this gift as your Truth

The following two steps above will show you the situation in a new light.

Hurt llama, I can attest, as you have that there were so many times that my exBPDgf was really honest with me. In many ways she had so much integrity--I would have never been with somebody that long unless they did have true integrity and honesty. -- BUT, I've learned I had to trust My Truth, My Body whilst only accepting her Actions & Behavior as Truth.

There were plenty of amazing times when my ex's Actions were beautiful, as well as her words. And, there were plenty of times when my ex's Actions were horribly sickening, while her words were still "true".

Hurt llama I'd like for you to consider the disgust you felt during these times of EV as the TRUTH. Whether it was done out of girlish flippance or practiced malice, does it matter?

I got some more personal stories i'd love to share but need to get back to work, LOL, but let me know if you want to hear it's helping me to use examples so i can see from 3rd person perspective... .  

[Hurt llama]

Hurt llama I'd like for you to consider the disgust you felt during these times of EV as the TRUTH. Whether it was done out of girlish flippance or practiced malice, does it matter?

Preferring her deadpan ability to tell the 'truth' over her someone who lies is like choosing the electric chair vs. firing squad.

It doesn't really matter.

I guess for me, it does help to know that i was not with Satan (as I affectionately refer to sometimes (not to her)) and that she is a decent but just damaged and hurt child akin to a rescue pet that was abandoned and abused... .   some respond well to their new owners and some just can never adjust.

Funny how writing is triggering random memories and thoughts... .   one of her largest attractions to me were my 'integrity'. She referred to it constantly. Reasons why clearly I provided her with safety and oddly it just occurred to me that her biggest complaint that i was always leaving her was also a foundation of true safety because I would not leave... .   Only until she blew up my world did I leave and even then the door never closed.

[goldylamont]

i'd love to hear some stories if you feel like telling, i will add some stories of my own too, it's just that i'm on the run now but i'll add some soon.

i think it's good that you can look at this person not as Satan   but i think the point i was trying to make Hurt llama is that, well, isn't it possible that a BPD 'truth' and a liars lie are in essence the same thing? i won't refer to it again cause i want to share some stuff too and i don't want to overstep and get all in your bizness   but a question i have is, where is the truth in the event with the condom/dinner. was it in her words "I'm sorry you had to see that"? Or was it in her Actions, which seem to be that it was done on purpose, just to hurt you? and if the words don't line up with the actions, then isn't this the same as a lie?

[Hurt llama]

i'd love to hear some stories if you feel like telling, i will add some stories of my own too, it's just that i'm on the run now but i'll add some soon.

i think it's good that you can look at this person not as Satan   but i think the point i was trying to make Hurt llama is that, well, isn't it possible that a BPD 'truth' and a liars lie are in essence the same thing? i won't refer to it again cause i want to share some stuff too and i don't want to overstep and get all in your bizness   but a question i have is, where is the truth in the event with the condom/dinner. was it in her words "I'm sorry you had to see that"? Or was it in her Actions, which seem to be that it was done on purpose, just to hurt you? and if the words don't line up with the actions, then isn't this the same as a lie?

Well, it's a good philosophical question if distortions or using the present state of mind to determine part of how you might view the past. I think we all can do this to some extent... .   and many of what we talk about in BPD relationships exists in all relationships to a lesser degree.

To be specific regarding the condom incident... .   (ugh)... .   We were close last October... . I sent her a gift and then found out later that month that i needed some serious open heart surgery... . I was feeling very vulnerable and said to her that I didnt expect her to not date and I went on and on... . i was extremely distraught... .   I didn't realize that while I thought we had moved past that and we were on the same page but clearly she was either in the process of ending a relationship or had someone around... . I really don't know. But hearing those words from me, was not something she was able to come back from... .

She of course stayed in touch but was definitely acting differently as obvious in retrospect she was in some sort of relationship... .  

I will always try to be as objective as possible in my posts here and please don't confuse that with making her out to be better than she is.

It was extremely difficult for her to have me come back into her life and it was really really hard for me to go there... . I felt like I was a cat trying to jump in the water.

We were back and forth on if I should go there or not... . We both were having huge trouble with it... .   tremendous anxiety... .

I finally got on the plane and went and the rest is history.

Considering how difficult sex can be to her or loaded is a better word... . It's complicated with her to say the least... . she is very sexual but she can easily bolt if she feels pressure or expectations... .   So the fact she was able to have this guy in her bed a day or two or who knows when before me was stunning to say the very least... .   She explained that he was an ex and yes she said it... .   'She felt sorry for him"

Was it unintentional that she had sex with someone so close to me... . No. it's a theme... . a theme that makes me so sick that this is actually hard to type.

She did the same thing a few weeks ago and it was the impetus to join this site.

She even gets all high and mighty about it and speaks down to me about how 'some people are not as serious as you are about sex and there are different ways to have a relationship"

This is so maddening it;s almost unimaginable she would say this! I am the least judgmental person about sex and of course this was just some sort of diversion or another crazy tactic that she uses to put it all on me... .

The 'truth' in her actions, is that she never yielded in her defense of her actions and that in her mind we were clearly not in a relationship, therefore I had no right to judge her at all... . She made it clear that if we were in a relationship it never would have happened... . And this is true.

Look, I can't view this story any other way than in judging her as a sick woman. A woman who has used sex as a potent weapon. In her mind she did nothing wrong.

==

Here's where it is now... . I as going to make a new thread about it but it's a touchy thing and I almost don't want to share it but I am committed to being honest and making an account of what I am doing.

She was texting me today and suddenly disappeared. It threw me into pretty extreme anxiety... . it was terrible... . I started texting and getting mad... .   and finally when she texted me back she reminded me she doesn't get imessages on her phone and that she was in a FIVE hour group therapy session.

The point of all this is that I see how vulnerable I am... .   and how I have given her so much power, more power than anyone should have... .   i had to ask myself a few questions.  Here they are:

What if she had been on a date? What if she told me she had been on a date? How would I feel? How would I react? WHat would it do to me?

I mean I broke up with her... . she is free and clear... . I have a date tomorrow (ugh not in the mood)... .  

I realize that if she told me she was dating or was with an ex or out with friends at a bar... .   I would feel distraught to say the least.

I am seeing so clearly how dangerous this is to me. It's not about her really anymore.

SO when she started texting she said she has a beautiful new dress and mentioned it because it was her way of telling me that she is going to be back here in 2-3 weeks and would love to wear it for me.

I replied... .   "WHy do you keep breaking up with me" (I am such a wiseass )

She said she has accepted we will be lifelong special friends and she has accepted we will never be married. Ever.

I replied: "You didn't have to throw the 'ever' in there." and she said "I said it for my own benefit, bro" (she says this to annoy me and it works)

I replied, ":)o we have friends with benefits? bro"

And have not received an answer.

Don't hold back in anything you want to ask or say... . No one can be harder on me than myself... .

I don't mind the questions and it, if anything helps me.

[Hurt llama]

The conundrum.What do I want from her?

I'll say it with the realization it's obviously never going to happen. "Ever'.

I want her to admit her sickness... . her sick way of operating... . I want her to feel bad... . I want her to know it's ok to feel badly... . it's ok to do things we might regret or know are wrong... . I certainly have done my share of crazy stuff.