Do they ever realize you did really love them?

[babushka]

Do people with BPD that had a stable, loving partner leave their lives ever realize they were truly loved? I feel like I gave unconditional love through a lot of storms (their storms) for a long time and just grew numb after a while and worn out from the pushed away and pulled back in. I left him... I don't know if that matters.

[clover528]

I wonder this too. I used to believe he knew how much I loved him and still do if I am being honest. His view of love is so different than mine. I am guessing, all pwBPD view love differently than non's.  My ex viewed love as need. He told me that he felt if I didnt need him, I didnt love him. He even said he logically knew that wasnt true but it was how he felt. Now that I am painted black, I think all idea of love is gone from him. He spews toxic waste at me constantly. I still wish for him to know that I did love him. The sad part for us is that, we have to decides for ourselves that our love was true and let go of any notion that they will ever validate our feelings. They simply arent capable. We have to rest assured, in the knowledge we loved ourselves more than to allow anyone to hurt us. In the end, it will be that unconditional love, given to ourselves that will validate us.

[Moonie75]

I think in their more lucid moments they do! But only lucid moments during the relationship, I'm really skeptical about what they might think during lucid moments post relationship. Post 'our relationship' their lucid moments are probably occupied by whoever's on there scene then. (Just the same as them thinking about us & not the ex when they were with us).

[Moonie75]

Do they ever realize they almost make you hate them?

[ObiRedKenobi]

I've wondered this myself. I don't know if they ever do. They often have their defenses up to make us out to be the bad guy. I can't help but think that if they ever realized that we loved them that they would have realized it earlier and wouldn't have had the need for the constant testing and validation. Maybe those with treatment come to a realization like that but I don't think under other circumstances thats the case.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't think a person with BPD realizes when someone truly loves them because they are incapable of truly loving someone.  A BPD personality is emotionally arrested; the better I got to know mine, the younger she seemed emotionally.  Plus the disorder creates such a living hell for them that it's all they can do to focus on their own sht and work on keeping it together; mine was all take and no give, not because she was selfish especially, but because she couldn't handle her life on her own, and was looking for help, but not even knowing what the real problem is.

But she got the best of me, which I'm proud of considering the crap that came back to me, and I have a feeling that at some points post-relationship she thought of something I did or said and it struck her that she had it all and lost it.  And then the shame, guilt and self-loathing showed up, and I was made a monster once again as she coped.  Or not, but it's a nice fantasy, and she did get my best, which is more than enough.

[thisyoungdad]

I would hope she did or does, because part of me still does. Yet I honestly am not sure, I am kind of with someone else that in her more lucid moments I think she does know and that drives her shame for leaving which drives so much crazy behavior.

[cska]

This thread topic is really painful for me... I did everything I could to help my ex, be there for her, soothe her, but she still e-mails me tell me that I abused her and that I'm an egotistical maniac. I know many of us also did a lot for out BPD significant others, just to be blamed that we don't do enough...

From my experience, here is what I think about whether pwBPD ever realize that we did really love them.

pwBPD are emotionally arrested; emotionally they are like children. (My ex certainly behaved in a childlike manner, right down to throwing temper tantrums.)

So imagine this scenario: a young child asks his mother for candy, and the mother gives him some. Then, he asks for more, and his mother declines. She does so in the child's own interests, so that he wouldn't develop diabetes, cavities etc. But the child thinks his mother is denying him candy because she wants to be cruel to him, because she hates him etc etc. So he will become upset, and might cry or throw a temper tantrum.

Will he understand that his mother denied him candy not because she was trying to be cruel but because she was looking out for him? Well, yes... when he becomes older and thus more emotionally mature, and old enough to understand that too much candy is bad.

So the tragedy is that emotionally, pwBPD are child-like. They are unable to understand that we DO love them (except for rare moments of clarity which, in my case, were very rare). Also, to acknowledge that we do love them would be to acknowledge that they hurt us and pushed us away. And to acknowledge that would cause them so much pain and guilt that their mind shifts the blame to us, in order to protect them from the pain that that realization would cause. It is a built in defense mechanism that their mind resorts to in order to protect them.

[Reg]

cska,

Absolutely, they don't know love as we know love, so as they don't know what love can really be, they don't know how our love must feel.  They got stuck in early childhood.

This may be confronting to hear, but it's reality I'm afraid.

Reg

[Perfidy]

Do you realize it was unhealthy? It could not have been love. Love is healthy

[simplyasiam]

i know my ex SO knows i love her and knows she loves me. she in a place where she feel the ppl that love her are better off without her couse she may hurt again.

its a sad life for them and us at times. we have some waht of a way out if we take it.

they can be stuck in this living hell for life.

i feel for and pray to GOD everyday for everyone living with BPD and thier familys.

[cska]

AsIAm, so your ex doesn't rage at you and blame you for everything?

And yes, indeed they have a damn heavy burden to bear.

[Undone123]

We learn "love"... . I know what love is because I am loved by my family. I love them, they love me. I can be an idiot, and they still love me, they can be idiots and I still love them. No matter what my family love me, and I learnt this. I learnt the behavior and how to identify that feeling.

I've read lots about how "when the BPD loves they really love"... . I don't believe a word of it. Love endures good and bad, sickness and health, it supports and nurtures. My ex was not capable of this. She was bought up tragically in a fairly loveless environment (according to her), but I never saw any love in her family. When my mother would give her a kiss or a cuddle after not seeing her for a few weeks, she found it alien... . So I don't think they actually, genuinely love at all. I think they mirror their perception of it... . So I don't think they ever understand that we loved them, because they don't really know what love is.

[imstronghere2]

Oddly enough, at our first of only four marriage counselor sessions (that I arranged) after my exwBPD's affair was exposed and major S*** had hit the fan, she stated "I knew he loved me but I just didn't know how much".   Which was a complete and utter lie as I told her every day that I loved her and gave her all the attention and affection that I could.  What I came to find out was that she equated being loved with being controlled and possessed like a piece of property.  Something her now NPD husband did to her that I would never consider doing to anyone.  You don't treat humans as property and control their whole lives.  That's demented. 

[Learning_curve74]

What I came to find out was that she equated being loved with being controlled and possessed like a piece of property.  Something her now NPD husband did to her that I would never consider doing to anyone.  You don't treat humans as property and control their whole lives.  That's demented. 

Is that what she learned from her childhood growing up? It may sound wrong to you and me, but maybe that is what she observed and learned.

[mcc503764]

Good topic this morning -

This is the truth of my situation... . My x didn't know what "love" is... . She was incapable of RECIPROCATING anything!  She knew about HER needs, her wants, but didn't know how to be a true partner... . a wife... . a step mother to my children... .

Her being a "marriage and family therapist," only made the contradiction of her prof life / personal life that much more of a mental rubix cube! 

She knew better, that's the part that still stings me.  She knew about BPD (obviously,) but would refuse to admit to it.  Taking ownership to it would have only added to her shame / professional shame.  What's in her head I cannot concern myself with... . I have moved on... .

So in her case, I see her as a malicious tramp.  There is no excuse.  For some who don't know any better it is one thing, but mine had no excuse to do the damage that she did!

She wouldn't accept my love... . she always said she felt unworthy of love because of her core belief that she wasn't good enough for it... . Is that real or some of her psychobabble?  Who knows?  Who Cares?  I cant allow her anymore space in my head!

MCC

[Perfidy]

Right! Ha! It's not even about them any more. At this point who cares about them. It's me that needs the healing from my part of the crap. I am burning the bridge. No contact no social media. It feels much better that picking the scabs off a wound. I am so done! Stick a fork in me! I'm done. This time in my life is for me now to grieve the DEAD relationship. The death of a dream of happily ever after with a tormented soul. Yes... Depression, suicidal thoughts, unfocused behavior... . All mine. It is a process of grief. My intellect says that it is the healthiest thing ever for me to be out of this crazy borderline psychotic relationship. My heart is a moron. I want some more pain!

[Tordesillas]

Because people with BPD are most drawn to those who trigger their fears and anxiety the LEAST, it's safe to say that those of us who were truly loving (patient, kind, compassionate etc) probably occupy a special place in their heart because of that.  Even when/if we're being painted black, there is always the likely possibility of them having moments where they remember how nice it was that we didn't make them feel absolutely terrible.  It's definitely not the same as them having a healthy appreciation of being loved, but it's something.   

[fromheeltoheal]

Because people with BPD are most drawn to those who trigger their fears and anxiety the LEAST, it's safe to say that those of us who were truly loving (patient, kind, compassionate etc) probably occupy a special place in their heart because of that.  Even when/if we're being painted black, there is always the likely possibility of them having moments where they remember how nice it was that we didn't make them feel absolutely terrible.  It's definitely not the same as them having a healthy appreciation of being loved, but it's something.   

Nice

[Undone123]

Is there any correlation between how much they "loved" you and how much they "hate" you now?

Because at the moment, I feel pretty hated. But at the time, I felt immensely loved (in the good moments)

[babushka]

Thank you all for your input! It has been immensely grounding to read everyone's experiences and thoughts. I am at one week no contact. It is getting easier to ignore the text messages and go about my life. Spent the day with friends yesterday and it dawned on my that I was actually somewhat relaxed and not worried about being a slave to my cellphone. One consequence of having been in a relationship with a BPD is I hate my cellphone!

[cska]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've grown to hate my cellphone as well; I was also a slave to it! god help me if I take more than 5 minutes to respond to her texts. Now I absolutely cannot stand texting!

[Hazelrah]

Thank you all for your input! It has been immensely grounding to read everyone's experiences and thoughts. I am at one week no contact. It is getting easier to ignore the text messages and go about my life. Spent the day with friends yesterday and it dawned on my that I was actually somewhat relaxed and not worried about being a slave to my cellphone. One consequence of having been in a relationship with a BPD is I hate my cellphone!

Holy cow, you too?  When I was apart from BPDw, God help me if I missed a text (I almost NEVER did) or didn't reply within a given timeframe.  Conversely, if I didn't take the initiative and reach out myself, I'd also find myself painted black.  She seemingly always equated the number of texts I sent when I was away with the amount of love I felt for her.  If I was swamped at work and couldn't shoot a quick "I love you" in the middle of the day, she would be likely to hold it against me until I was able to make up for it the next day, which I inevitably would.  It got to the point where I'd be checking my cell any time I had a free sec, just to make sure I wasn't 'ignoring' her.

It's still that way--if I don't respond to some cold-hearted text in the requisite period of time (usually about an hour), she's following up and asking me if I received her initial message.  At this point, I find the ability to turn the phone completely off quite liberating.  

[imstronghere2]

Is that what she learned from her childhood growing up? It may sound wrong to you and me, but maybe that is what she observed and learned.

You know, I think so actually.  I came into her life only a few months before her father died so I didn't get a chance to see first hand how the interaction was between her parents but I did spend the next 22 years becoming very close to her mother.  During those years of conversations I gleaned that it was very much a one sided relationship where her mother was overly submissive.  In fact, my exwBPD's first husband (I was #2) was very much like the POS NPD she's with now.  Overly controlling and possessive and she stated to me not long after she moved out, that's what she needs to feel loved.

To which I say "have at it" because I will never be that way and I certainly didn't raise our children to accept that as OK.  Our daughter is fiercely independent and our son (which I have sole custody of) is growing up being forced to be extremely independent because we only have each other now.

[findingmyselfagain]

I think the fact that we love them *IS* the problem. After our disaster ended, long story short, I asked some friends who knew us at the time and some people that worked with her. They all told me she pretty much thought I was wonderful. They all agreed that she had an "extreme" relationship history in which she was NEVER able to be friendly with any of her ex's. Things were chaos with the next guy as well. When she wasn't doing well after our wedding shower, I told her I liked her and she'd reply in a very child-like voice... . I knoow you do. She said she tried doing better but every time she thought she was doing better, something bad happened. She also said one of my issues was that I complimented her too much... . wth? She expected everyone to compliment her. It's been difficult for me because I truly loved her and saw a future with her. I managed to find her blog and I've since discovered that the black/white/push/pull I saw at the end of the relationship is who she really is. She loves, but it's very childlike and immature... . more like a high school crush, but not even that mature. It's best for us to put them behind us and work on ourselves.

[mcc503764]

She loves, but it's very childlike and immature... . more like a high school crush, but not even that mature. It's best for us to put them behind us and work on ourselves.

I've been saying this exact thing for years!  Very childish r/s... . NO communication / mature coping skills, NO accountability, NO responsibility... . I was raising three kids!  (full custody of my 2 from my previous marriage.)  Her friends have said that even to this day, her life revolves around boys and still continues the same behavior that she did when she was a kid... .

It's IMPOSSIBLE to keep trying to rationalize with a child.  You will drive yourself crazy trying to make sense of it!  All you can do is put it behind you and move forward!

MCC

[Ironmanrises]

Only when it serves their purpose.

Only for x period of time.

Or you can simplify it like this... .

No.

[bpdspell]

Quite honestly... .what does love mean to a person who hates themselves? Can a toxic heart receive what it cannot fully give?

They are too controlled by their disorder to fully actualize the amount of love we poured into them.

Their capacity to receive love is also severely limited due to their stunted child minds, their low self worth and their shame vortex. Love cannot fix or make amends personal history. They were sick before we met them and without treatment they will continue to be unstable.

We may have loved them deeply but they're too sick to receive, experience and reciprocate that love on a mature emotional level.

My ex knew I loved him. He said so and he saw it in my eyes. But did that stop him from being triggered? Hell to the no. Did it stop him from being dsyregulated? Did my love empower him to pack his mental illness in a storage? No and no.

Spell

[jollygreen]

I'm not sure either.  But I had a thought about relating this to how my ex's parents may have showed her love growing up.  She was an only child, very bratty in some ways.  I think she developed an idea of love from the actions of her parents doing and getting whatever she wanted and also having all attention focused on her.  This was love to her I think.

[gallerykey]

I cant decide on this one. Im sure he knew I loved him as he would often say you really must love me to put up with all the s**t i put you through. But at the same time Im not sure he knew what love was. His r/s with his mum is she buys him stuff or gives him money and hes happy, this was her way of loving him when younger so this is what i believe he thinks love is. I would often buy him things and help him with money as this soothed him, he saw this as my love rather than how i felt.

Still hurting too much to decide on this one... .