Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
January 27, 2021, 01:19:23 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
81
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why they seem happier than we are  (Read 8187 times)
maxen
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2252



« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2013, 12:19:36 PM »

I accepted her AS SHE REALLY IS, disordered. And she still discarded me. What makes me think, and for that matter, all of you as well, that mine and yours, are really happy now after leaving us/or you having left them?

speaks right to my situation. i knew she was selfish, and had a weight problem, etc etc, and i committed to her and stayed with her still. but, she said, she "didn't feel cherished" and was wounded that i "only tolerated" things about her. well when you pass out from alcohol and are disorganized to the point where you lose your souse's mail i can't love it. i can accept it but i can't love it. yet the merest sign of disapproval, the merest suggestion that she owes me support too, was fatal.

what makes me think she's happy? that she said she is, and that we - including she - are NC for 9 weeks. yes she floated the idea of reconciliation - while living with her paramour even (5+ months now) - so we met and just seeing me set her off (and no ownership of her campaign of deceit, of course). on this i agree with some of 481's comments, our pain is so so much worse than any pain they're feeling.
Logged

hergestridge
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 760


« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2013, 12:44:18 PM »

The b/w thinking again. When we say we love them as they are they think we love all the crap and negativity too. Part of DBT is learning to accept that people have good and bad sides. A BPD person can't accept that a person "puts up" with some of their bad sides (and there are usually a few). They have this idea that a partner should love them 100% or ___ off. They often think that other people live in relationships where they are loved 100%. Bpd people demand the impossible from a romantic partner. It's part of the illness.
Logged
Waifed
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1026



« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2013, 01:20:31 PM »

I was married for 14 years and was pretty unhappy the last few years. I worked with my pwBPD for about three years during the end of my marriage. She subtly seduced me the last year or so of my marriage. I didn't even realize this until a month or so ago. I started seeing her a few months after I left my wife. Did I mourn the death of my 14 year marriage?  No.  I was too wrapped up in a new person who I thought I was falling in love with.

My point is that I was thinking ahead and not in the past. My ex wife could not believe I could just throw away a 14 year marriage so fast. My guess is that our pwBPD are always thinking ahead. I think my ex BPD is a master at burying the past and moving forward. She lived her life very much in compartments.  It makes it much easier to discard old trash. I don't think she has given much thought about me after 4 months of NC.

I do believe the lack of grieving does take a toll on their bodies. They are human and the body needs to grieve and recover. Piling on stress on top of stress without resolving it will create chronic physical issues and increased mental stress.

The bottom line is that we are able to have something that they can not. We can hope for a lasting relationship of sharing love and compassion. We will ultimately be much happier than them. We have punched out ticket to get OFF the Merry Go Round while they are permanently trapped on the never ending ride of insanity. That ride probably gets really old and would take a toll on anyone's sanity.
Logged
maxen
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2252



« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2013, 02:41:13 PM »

They often think that other people live in relationships where they are loved 100%. Bpd people demand the impossible from a romantic partner. It's part of the illness.

hergestridge i think that's exactly right.
Logged

Ironmanrises
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2013, 07:01:10 AM »

I accepted her AS SHE REALLY IS, disordered. And she still discarded me. What makes me think, and for that matter, all of you as well, that mine and yours, are really happy now after leaving us/or you having left them?

speaks right to my situation. i knew she was selfish, and had a weight problem, etc etc, and i committed to her and stayed with her still. but, she said, she "didn't feel cherished" and was wounded that i "only tolerated" things about her. well when you pass out from alcohol and are disorganized to the point where you lose your souse's mail i can't love it. i can accept it but i can't love it. yet the merest sign of disapproval, the merest suggestion that she owes me support too, was fatal.

what makes me think she's happy? that she said she is, and that we - including she - are NC for 9 weeks. yes she floated the idea of reconciliation - while living with her paramour even (5+ months now) - so we met and just seeing me set her off (and no ownership of her campaign of deceit, of course). on this i agree with some of 481's comments, our pain is so so much worse than any pain they're feeling.

Interesting. Mine told me in devaluation that i "settle for people." Right. I told her, "YOU are the one who came back to me. Not the other way around." Her response? Silence. As f¥cking usual. That insufferable god awful silence.
Logged
Pretty Woman
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1682


The Greatest Love is the Love You Give Yourself


« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2013, 07:37:10 AM »

Ironman,

     Let's face it, nothing about them is real.  They hate being called out on anything. They are not responsible for anything (in their eyes). 

My ex would twist all my words and actions to suit her needs at the time. She was never fully in the relationship with me.  It was me and all her exes she kept talking to. 

She can say the demise of our relationship was my fault.  I'm not perfect.  But I never emotionally or physically cheated on her.  I never called her a bit!@ or a cun!  I never assaulted her. 

I am blessed she has cut me off and found a new victim. Maybe I can get some peace after two years of hell. 
Logged

Nope
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner’s ex
Relationship status: married
Posts: 951



« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2013, 08:28:20 AM »

I'm just going to stick this right here.



www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html


Twenty minute video with lots of food for thought.

Logged
Tincanmike
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 55



« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2013, 10:20:57 AM »

They often think that other people live in relationships where they are loved 100%. Bpd people demand the impossible from a romantic partner. It's part of the illness.

hergestridge i think that's exactly right.

Mine always complained that she needed a husband/partner that "adored" her, that put her on a pedestal. I tried and tried, but it seemed it was never enough.  She also always said that I deserved a better mate than her and that I was just settling. What did she truly expect of me? What does she truly expect of anyone?

Of course the beginning of the relationship was great. But towards the end it seems we just sat around and got drunk all the time. We were both enabling each other and erasing the immediacy of our problems with alcohol, but the alcohol just made things worse. Communication sober was hard enough. Despite the drinking though, I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup. She will be "adored" by them... .at first. But I'm afraid that she will keep facing the inevitable fact that relationship's initial "heat" will cool over time.
Logged
Ironmanrises
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 10:52:31 AM »

They often think that other people live in relationships where they are loved 100%. Bpd people demand the impossible from a romantic partner. It's part of the illness.

hergestridge i think that's exactly right.

Mine always complained that she needed a husband/partner that "adored" her, that put her on a pedestal. I tried and tried, but it seemed it was never enough.  She also always said that I deserved a better mate than her and that I was just settling. What did she truly expect of me? What does she truly expect of anyone?

Of course the beginning of the relationship was great. But towards the end it seems we just sat around and got drunk all the time. We were both enabling each other and erasing the immediacy of our problems with alcohol, but the alcohol just made things worse. Communication sober was hard enough. Despite the drinking though, I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup. She will be "adored" by them... .at first. But I'm afraid that she will keep facing the inevitable fact that relationship's initial "heat" will cool over time.

There is that phrase of settling bestowed upon one of us. Were you dating my ex? Was I dating yours?

Earth,

I honestly think that everything about my ex was/is real. I experienced it. That is the horrifying reality of it. Her good behavior was real. Her bad behavior was real. Anyone have that  other pill that Neo was offered in the Matrix to return to the blissful ignorance of that world?
Logged
Tincanmike
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 55



« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2013, 11:06:59 AM »

They often think that other people live in relationships where they are loved 100%. Bpd people demand the impossible from a romantic partner. It's part of the illness.

hergestridge i think that's exactly right.

Mine always complained that she needed a husband/partner that "adored" her, that put her on a pedestal. I tried and tried, but it seemed it was never enough.  She also always said that I deserved a better mate than her and that I was just settling. What did she truly expect of me? What does she truly expect of anyone?

Yeah Ironman

Of course the beginning of the relationship was great. But towards the end it seems we just sat around and got drunk all the time. We were both enabling each other and erasing the immediacy of our problems with alcohol, but the alcohol just made things worse. Communication sober was hard enough. Despite the drinking though, I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup. She will be "adored" by them... .at first. But I'm afraid that she will keep facing the inevitable fact that relationship's initial "heat" will cool over time.

There is that phrase of settling bestowed upon one of us. Were you dating my ex? Was I dating yours?

Earth,

I honestly think that everything about my ex was/is real. I experienced it. That is the horrifying reality of it. Her good behavior was real. Her bad behavior was real. Anyone have that  other pill that Neo was offered in the Matrix to return to the blissful ignorance of that world?

Yeah Ironmanfalls, I think we have a carbon copy thing going here. I tried to console her that I was willing to do whatever it took, that I wasn't just settling, that I loved her and would do (put up) with anything. But don't you settle to a degree in any relationship? There could always be someone better/different out there for me. But I wanted her, no matter what. She was my first love, at a late age I guess for me. Maybe I was settling. She was insatiable. I guess I just need to meet someone who isn't so needy. She's going to keep searching for that "perfect man".  I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life. Rescuing or tolerating? This inner questioning is driving me nuts! Accepting that there might never be answers could very well be the blissful ignorance that we seek. Thanks for the validation though. It's reassuring to know that someone out there knows exactly what I've gone through and am continuing to try and process.
Logged
maxen
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2252



« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2013, 12:34:33 PM »

I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup.

the word my w used when she walked out was that she didn't feel "cherished." and i too had the feeling that no matter what i did, it wouldn't be enough. i had to face the decision, more than once, whether or not to accommodate her by doing every single thing she wanted me to do. but i strongly felt there would always be something else, so i refused often enough, and that was a fatal error of course.

mine moved on to someone else before she left. but it's interesting, later she said, being vicious by telling me, "i like what i have" and "i'm not ready to leave [place where she's living now]." no mention of the other party, but "what i have" and the place. they're consumed by their void, the reality of others' emotions doesn't factor.

I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life.

i tried to communicate to her that i was the one who married her, who covered her needs more than anyone before, that she likely never again will find anyone who will be willing as i was, and she still blew it up.
Logged

Tincanmike
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 55



« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2013, 02:03:38 PM »

I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup.

the word my w used when she walked out was that she didn't feel "cherished." and i too had the feeling that no matter what i did, it wouldn't be enough. i had to face the decision, more than once, whether or not to accommodate her by doing every single thing she wanted me to do. but i strongly felt there would always be something else, so i refused often enough, and that was a fatal error of course.

mine moved on to someone else before she left. but it's interesting, later she said, being vicious by telling me, "i like what i have" and "i'm not ready to leave [place where she's living now]." no mention of the other party, but "what i have" and the place. they're consumed by their void, the reality of others' emotions doesn't factor.

I wanted the things I said and did to be sincere and from the heart. I didn't want to fake affection, just for the sake of showing/proving my affection for her. I began to second guess myself. It's no wonder our sex life started to fail. I had lost confidence.

During a recycle, she asked me to make a list of the reasons I loved her.  She said that she had come back to "see" if she still had feelings for me. I wrote the list with all my heart. At the end of that short week of reconciliation, she said it just wouldn't work. I felt like a guinea pig. Some sort of laboratory animal. And within days she let me know that she was "in love" with somebody, possibly during the recycle, and had slept with yet someone else, but the guy she was in "love" with forgave her. Where was I in this whole picture? Used and abused again. Stick the knife in a little further and twist please.

I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life.

i tried to communicate to her that i was the one who married her, who covered her needs more than anyone before, that she likely never again will find anyone who will be willing as i was, and she still blew it up.

Logged
Tincanmike
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 55



« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2013, 02:05:30 PM »

I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup.

the word my w used when she walked out was that she didn't feel "cherished." and i too had the feeling that no matter what i did, it wouldn't be enough. i had to face the decision, more than once, whether or not to accommodate her by doing every single thing she wanted me to do. but i strongly felt there would always be something else, so i refused often enough, and that was a fatal error of course.

mine moved on to someone else before she left. but it's interesting, later she said, being vicious by telling me, "i like what i have" and "i'm not ready to leave [place where she's living now]." no mention of the other party, but "what i have" and the place. they're consumed by their void, the reality of others' emotions doesn't factor.


I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life.

i tried to communicate to her that i was the one who married her, who covered her needs more than anyone before, that she likely never again will find anyone who will be willing as i was, and she still blew it up.


From Tincan:

I wanted the things I said and did to be sincere and from the heart. I didn't want to fake affection, just for the sake of showing/proving my affection for her. I began to second guess myself. It's no wonder our sex life started to fail. I had lost confidence.

During a recycle, she asked me to make a list of the reasons I loved her.  She said that she had come back to "see" if she still had feelings for me. I wrote the list with all my heart. At the end of that short week of reconciliation, she said it just wouldn't work. I felt like a guinea pig. Some sort of laboratory animal. And within days she let me know that she was "in love" with somebody, possibly during the recycle, and had slept with yet someone else, but the guy she was in "love" with forgave her. Where was I in this whole picture? Used and abused again. Stick the knife in a little further and twist please. Tincan.
Logged
Changingman
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Daughter 15, Son 14
Posts: 644



« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2013, 06:10:46 PM »

I still feel that I would never "adore" her to the level she wanted. It's no wonder she's moved on to other men so quickly after our breakup.

the word my w used when she walked out was that she didn't feel "cherished." and i too had the feeling that no matter what i did, it wouldn't be enough. i had to face the decision, more than once, whether or not to accommodate her by doing every single thing she wanted me to do. but i strongly felt there would always be something else, so i refused often enough, and that was a fatal error of course.

mine moved on to someone else before she left. but it's interesting, later she said, being vicious by telling me, "i like what i have" and "i'm not ready to leave [place where she's living now]." no mention of the other party, but "what i have" and the place. they're consumed by their void, the reality of others' emotions doesn't factor.


I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life.

i tried to communicate to her that i was the one who married her, who covered her needs more than anyone before, that she likely never again will find anyone who will be willing as i was, and she still blew it up.


From Tincan:

I wanted the things I said and did to be sincere and from the heart. I didn't want to fake affection, just for the sake of showing/proving my affection for her. I began to second guess myself. It's no wonder our sex life started to fail. I had lost confidence.

During a recycle, she asked me to make a list of the reasons I loved her.  She said that she had come back to "see" if she still had feelings for me. I wrote the list with all my heart. At the end of that short week of reconciliation, she said it just wouldn't work. I felt like a guinea pig. Some sort of laboratory animal. And within days she let me know that she was "in love" with somebody, possibly during the recycle, and had slept with yet someone else, but the guy she was in "love" with forgave her. Where was I in this whole picture? Used and abused again. Stick the knife in a little further and twist please. Tincan.

No one can 'please' this stuff, no one should try. When did they please us... .ever.

As soon as they felt control leaving they flirted, punished, hurt, cheated and searched for the next.

There is no win with them, only CONTROL, the tightening of the screw.

I'm finding it hard to remember ANY time i didn't feel manipulated and a certain 'uncertainty' about any situation/stage we were in, always 'on the brink' feeling about everything.

They know it will end badly, very badly... .they know. Always ready to leave, always setting up escape relationships, sexual, emotional, exBFs, people they can offer something other than their crazy (sex). Friendships confuse them, what does anyone get from platonic friendships... .

Can't really ever know how much infidelity, hurt and destruction she rained on me. But I can search myself and try to understand why I let it happen.

I made her breakfast in bed exactly how she made it, and she flew off because I didn't use the correct pan... .amazing. She made our dogs paranoid but I hadn't trained them properly, she abandoned them like me as if they didnt exist. never asked about them, never asked how one had to be put down. nothing... .

The secret hatred she had for me is mind blowing, I turned her life around.

I really thought I would never see her again... .but I'm starting to see that when she is bored, ejected from the new man and Drunk/drugged up she will love to see if the chaos she caused is still in me. Bring back that Crazy provoking engagement they love so much. All they have really and the pretence.

BPD is such a serious, dangerous condition... .Madness lurks around the corner.

You were the best thing in her life Tincanmike? Adore her? Meet her needs?

Reread the symptoms of BPD, the Dark Stranger which is the hidden part of her was staring at you like a viper.

Good Luck moving forward, this is real work for all of us.


Logged
theirdad

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 48


« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2013, 12:57:16 AM »

Great post! I read the article and listened to the associated RadioLab link and read the Lance Armstrong article. The truth of it all blindsided me like a truck pulling out of a side street and plowing into my car on some random Tuesday afternoon. 

I am sad and miserable.  I am a "good guy." I have the capacity for insight into my own person and I have character and I am... .blah, blah blah.  SHE, on the other hand, is mentally ill as categorized by the DSM IV (or possibly later editions.)  She hasn't 'character.'  She leaves a trail of destruction in her wake.  She lies to herself and others.  She lacks, or is possibly incapable of, empathy.  She is BAD.  But you know what?  She is happy.  Oh no, she isn't really happy we all shout.  Not really, she isn't capable of it.  She isn't capable of 'really' loving another person.  Well actually, she is happy.  Ok, maybe not that Dalai Lama Zen kinda happiness I am so clearly on the road to, but she's happy.  And me, not so much. 

I like to think she survives by applying temporary "band aides " to her psychological wounds.  Not me, I'm 'working on myself !" No temporary band aides for me!  Actually those last two sentences are my temporary band aides, and as I've been typing all this she is likely not so twisted up in anything beyond herself.  She is quite likely, well, happy.  Or maybe not, who knows.

The point of the articles as I see it, is that "successful" and "happy" people tend to be more capable of "lying to themselves" as judged by the researchers.  Those who lack the ability to "lie to themselves" are likely to be more depressed and finish further back in the pack. Now here is the rub which is not at all addressed in the article or associated sources- The ability to "lie to oneself" is not a choice.  My ex may make a lot of choices but self-deception is not one of them.  Conversely, could I 'choose' to lie to myself?  Of course not.  Not because of my great character, but because it isn't a choice. 

If I could make the choice to be able to deceive myself so, if someone offered me a magic pill, would I do it?  I don't know.  I think I might.  But then again, I can't.






     
Logged
imstronghere2
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 191



« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2013, 06:49:09 AM »

the word my w used when she walked out was that she didn't feel "cherished." and i too had the feeling that no matter what i did, it wouldn't be enough. i had to face the decision, more than once, whether or not to accommodate her by doing every single thing she wanted me to do. but i strongly felt there would always be something else, so i refused often enough, and that was a fatal error of course.

mine moved on to someone else before she left.

I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life.

i tried to communicate to her that i was the one who married her, who covered her needs more than anyone before, that she likely never again will find anyone who will be willing as i was, and she still blew it up.

It still amazes me when I read something like this and it's EXACTLY the same experience I had.  Everything in bold.  My exwBPD compared my "not cherishing her enough" and her adultery at the same level of breaking our vows.  I didn't even have words to come back with on that one.  I treated her like a queen and would have given up my life for her (which essentially I did for 20 years).  She had several guys lined up before she left our home.  She's been gone almost 2.5 years, married the SOB she was having her affair with and her life is a mess with no indication that it will get anything but worse.

She only has herself to blame but of course, we all know THAT will never happen.

She abandoned our home, family, pets and everything we had together because she wasn't "happy", to which I told her "she's wouldn't ALLOW herself to be happy".    The woman refused to invest herself in our relationship or our family.  She was able to abandon her own children since she never truly bonded with either of them.

And she ran off all smiles and sunshine?   I think not and time IS taking it's toll.
Logged
maxen
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2252



« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2013, 09:48:58 AM »

i know pwBPD are individuals too, but, like, wow, imstrong.

It still amazes me when I read something like this and it's EXACTLY the same experience I had.  Everything in bold.  My exwBPD compared my "not cherishing her enough" and her adultery at the same level of breaking our vows.  I didn't even have words to come back with on that one. 

... .

She abandoned our home, family, pets and everything we had together because she wasn't "happy", to which I told her "she's wouldn't ALLOW herself to be happy".    The woman refused to invest herself in our relationship or our family.

and i said to my stbxw that she'd never feel cherished since all she ever does is look for reasons to feel wounded. i did our laundry, the machines are in the basement, and she painted that as "taking me for granted by leaving me upstairs." i made reference to a book, a standard reference in our line of work, whose abbreviation is OCD, and she accused me of making a comment about her obsessive-compulsive disorder, a thing i believe she doesn't have. i mean this list could go on indefinitely.

but i'ts also important for me to read not only that BPDs have patterns, but that other nons react in the same way to these situations. i've been in an awful FOG, and still am. the idea that marriage brings with it mutual obligations, the first of which is honesty, isn't an emotionally ignorant thing for me to think, i have to keep telling myself. her deceit and infideltiy and bolting aren't in any way justifiable, i have to keep telling myself. the source of her actions is an emotional and moral disorder, and the actions are not just something that happens in life that i have to accept. reading accounts like yours, imstrong, helps with that.
Logged

imstronghere2
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 191



« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2013, 10:46:36 AM »

but i'ts also important for me to read not only that BPDs have patterns, but that other nons react in the same way to these situations. i've been in an awful FOG, and still am. the idea that marriage brings with it mutual obligations, the first of which is honesty, isn't an emotionally ignorant thing for me to think, i have to keep telling myself. her deceit and infideltiy and bolting aren't in any way justifiable, i have to keep telling myself. the source of her actions is an emotional and moral disorder, and the actions are not just something that happens in life that i have to accept.

We ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have to accept and I for one, WILL NOT accept those actions in my life ever again.

We on the non-disordered side of the coin do react in very much the same way.  I've read so many stories here and on other sites of people just like us in our situations who struggle in almost the exact same ways.  I still find myself "fogged out" at times and this is after almost 2.5 years of being away from her and a full 2 years of complete NC.  We don't communicate in any way.  She sees our S13 about once a month for maybe 30-40 minutes.  She never calls or texts between visits.  I gave her 1/2 day visitation on Thanksgiving and 1/2 day on Christmas and she's never so much as attempted to use any of that time.  The first Christmas after she left she called and talked to him for about 5 minutes and that was it.  Last Christmas it was just a text.  The irony here is that she just recently sent some text messages to our D20 complaining that our S13 doesn't want to spend any time just to be with her and blamed it on our S13.  Our D20 was so incensed that she couldn't respond or she would have blown up at her mother.    She sent our D20 these type of texts but doesn't bother to actually try to TALK to our S13.

How's that for twisted?  My daughter told me all this last Friday and I don't get as upset about this stuff any more as I used to but it ate at me all damn night and obviously, I'm still upset by it. 
Logged
stronger123
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 56


« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2013, 01:24:11 PM »

I recently read an interesting article here www.huffingtonpost.com/hippo-reads/success-and-motivation_b_4357669.html that describes lying to oneself as a way to make ourselves happier. I, personally, think it's disingenuous because I am a truth-seeker and an intellectual who relies on my analytical skills to get through life. Nevertheless, the article makes some interesting points and I couldn't help but apply it to my situation with my uBPDexgf. There's a lot of discussion on these boards about our pwBPD's ability to shut down their emotions and convince themselves that we've done them wrong so that they don't have to feel the shame and regret of their behavior.  Unlike my pwBPD, I'm the kind of person that deals in reality. Unfortunately, in light of that article, it appears that science has backed up the idea that lying to ourselves and using that defense mechanism we're all equipped with helps us to be happier. I'm not advocating suppressing our thoughts or emotions like our pwBPDs; however, I do think that the article brings up some interesting ideas that may help us heal a little better. What does everyone think?

I did read the article. It was interesting.  And I suggest people read it (it is short) so they can respond to the intent of the poster, as opposed to reciting the rhetoric we have learned on this site.

The point of the article, from my perspective, is successful people "deceive themselves" into success. Or, people who refuse to accept "reality" and who create their own, often succeed. Or, reframing a negative into a positive has advantages.

I find it interesting because I am rethinking things for myself. We are all here whining about how our ex's moved on and seem happy. And we are whining because they have moved on while we are stuck in a perpetual hell. Which seems healthier?

One thing that seems to strike me about people who supposedly have BPD, is they rarely stay in any situation where their needs (whatever those are) are not being met. Is that nutty? Or, maybe that is freakin normal? 

Maybe we are the ones with the problem cuz we stay mired in the muck?

I'm not saying our ex's don't have problems. They do. And, we have problems for staying with them when our needs aren't being met, or when they treated us badly, or when they <insertpreference here>.

Maybe we need to be reframing things for ourselves to serve ourselves. Maybe we need to deceive ourselves into happiness.

Cognitive theory postulates that if you want to feel differently, you need to think differently. Food for thought.

Thanks Down for sharing this article.


Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2013, 11:36:32 AM »

Hey all, I'm glad that this thread got the response it did because it was something that really made me think. I would have liked to respond to as many posts as I could, but I was away on business this past weekend and didn't get a chance to. Nevertheless, I'd like to respond to a few that really resonate with me.

Had I not experienced my exUBPDgf returning to me 3 months after first discarding me, I would have been of the mind frame too of the belief that she was happy in the timeframe after leaving me. When I let her back in for round 2, and allowed her back into my social media(fb/IG I had her blocked in the NC between both rounds), I read through her posts from that time period. All that I saw was fake happiness with the re idealization of me as time progressed up until she returned to me in round 2. It was there sprinkled throughout her social media. In devaluation period in round 2, I experienced the same exact fake happiness being projected as she systematically destroyed my self esteem via fb/IG. This time, it was under the guise of "personal development" and that f¥cking self help book "The Secret", which promotes "positive thinking and attracting positive energy instead of negative"( Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)). I have to laugh/cry/scream at the sheer hypocrisy of that. I was the MOST positive person in her life. I accepted her AS SHE REALLY IS, disordered. And she still discarded me. What makes me think, and for that matter, all of you as well, that mine and yours, are really happy now after leaving us/or you having left them? I bent and contorted myself(not healthy I know) in all shapes and sizes to make her happy and she still f¥cking discarded me, I will assume it was not that different for most of you. After all of that, what makes me think anyone else could make her happy(if she replaced me), if even with all of that, I couldn't make a dent? She isn't happy. Apologies for my rant. Needed to let that out.

I agree that they aren't really happy, however, I think the article addresses the salient trait in many pwBPD of being able to convince themselves that what they feel is actually real. Even though I b/u with my uBPDexgf, she made it like she was b/u with me and told me that she "can't change the way she feels and she never goes against her feelings." The point is, they will convince themselves that something is the truth based on some disordered feeling they have within them. I think that they have such a strong defense mechanism of self-deception that although they aren't truly happy, they can easily convince themselves that they are based on some bs feeling they have.

From TincanMike:

"Yeah Ironmanfalls, I think we have a carbon copy thing going here. I tried to console her that I was willing to do whatever it took, that I wasn't just settling, that I loved her and would do (put up) with anything. But don't you settle to a degree in any relationship? There could always be someone better/different out there for me. But I wanted her, no matter what. She was my first love, at a late age I guess for me. Maybe I was settling. She was insatiable. I guess I just need to meet someone who isn't so needy. She's going to keep searching for that "perfect man".  I know for a fact though, that I was the best thing to come into her life. Rescuing or tolerating? This inner questioning is driving me nuts! Accepting that there might never be answers could very well be the blissful ignorance that we seek. Thanks for the validation though. It's reassuring to know that someone out there knows exactly what I've gone through and am continuing to try and process."

I am so with you about relationships in general. We do settle to some extent, because no one is perfect. Of course I could go out and try to find a new woman every night that is better than my mate at the time, but if I'm happy, why would I? My uBPDexgf was never satisfied. She's also going to be searching for that perfect man her whole life. In devaluation, I actually asked her if she wanted to go find someone better than me. Not that I would wait around, but I wanted her to acknowledge that she was looking for some movie-type of love story with the perfect man. Her response: "No, I don't want to start dating again." What the heck? That's the response I accepted? Looking back I want to smack myself in the face for not screaming at the top of my lungs at her that that was the most unacceptable answer she could have given me! I was, and still am, the best thing that ever came into her life. But what life is it? The one she pretended that she wanted to have, or the one that she has now with my replacement? What they want changes dramatically because they mirror us. I could honestly say I was perfect for her if she was who she acted as when we first started dating, but the problem is, she may or may not be that person. So I can't say whether or not I actually am perfect for her. All I know is, she will be searching for perfection for the rest of her life.

Theirdad:

I agree with your entire post in Reply #44. Thanks for that anger, it makes me feel better. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Logged
Perfidy
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced/18 years Single/5 months that I know of.
Posts: 1594



« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2013, 11:54:03 AM »

D&O... .I would like to point out that happiness does not come from a relationship. If anyone claims that they are happy because of someone else and being in a relationship I say bull honky. We know that isn't happieness.
Logged
DownandOut
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 260


« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2013, 12:13:05 PM »

D&O... .I would like to point out that happiness does not come from a relationship. If anyone claims that they are happy because of someone else and being in a relationship I say bull honky. We know that isn't happieness.

I agree. If you understood my above post to mean that a relationship makes someone happy, what I meant was, if I am happy in a relationship, I don't have to go look for something better or more perfect. But that's true for a nonBPD person. Unfortunately for a pwBPD, they are never truly happy and even if the relationship is good, the inherent fear of depth and closeness will cause them to convince themselves that they aren't happy or it's not right. Once they are free from those feelings of engulfment, they convince themselves they are happy (through the use of self-deception) with the new person/victim and around and around and around it goes.
Logged
Numbers
Formerly "4 8 15 16 23 42"
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 140


« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2013, 12:17:46 PM »

D&O... .I would like to point out that happiness does not come from a relationship. If anyone claims that they are happy because of someone else and being in a relationship I say bull honky. We know that isn't happieness.

If you meant to say that happiness does not come specifically and exclusively out of a relationship, I agree 100% with you.

But if you meant that a meaningful/significant part of happiness does not come out of relationship, I say bull honky right back.

I am not picking on you specifically, please excuse me if you feel so. I am trying to get across a counterpoint to this idea that I personally find faulty. Well, OF COURSE I went into this and many other relatonships because I expected to be happy. Isn't that the point? Why would I want to be in a relationship if I would expect to be indifferent or unhappy?

I can accept a lot, in a sense how this is in reality my fault etc. But here I am drawing a hard line. Sorry, I went in with an open heart, got played and got hurt. No amount of "deal with it" will make me any happier. Yes, I will get over it and it will fade into irrelevance. But it will take months or years to get back to any semblance of normalcy. While she will use these years to get pleasure/validation/distraction/sex even. Oh, yeah, one day when we will both be old and gray (all due respect), she might be in a "despair" realizing all the wrong chioces. Well, guess what, I will be in despair too because of all the things that were forever taken away from me. And who won? She.

In all honesty, we also have dual standards when it comes to emotional damage. If someone comes and chops both your legs off, well, you will never ever walk again no matter how much you get over it. But somehow it is ok to label us nons as weak because we cannot repair quickly while honestly we got mutilated, just not visibly so.

I hate you, dear ex.
Logged
seeking balance
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 7147



« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2013, 12:34:07 PM »

Interesting article - but more interesting is how many people focus the lying on their exes rather than on themselves... .

We all try to make sense of life - sometimes we are correct about an event, sometimes we are not.  Lying to oneself is rarely a conscious effort... .it is unconscious, coping skill. 

Focusing on us as it relates to the BPD relationship - I found article 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm -

to be aligned with our own false beliefs (lies) that keep us stuck.

This also reminds me of the line from the Sheryl Crow song about happiness, "it's not having what you want it is wanting what you got". 

Interesting thread - thanks for sharing

Peace,

SB

Logged

Faith does not grow in the house of certainty - The Shack
goldylamont
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1083



« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2013, 12:42:33 PM »

i can't help but hopefully curb this discussion back to the realm of reality that pwBPD, as another person playfully posted "can lie while drinking a glass of water". seriously, i would never, ever consider my exBPD as happier than I! her whole r/s after we broke up was so fake, she swore up and down that she was so in love with this guy and told me how so great he was and yelled it out to the world to try and discredit and devalue me. and it was so unbelievable that a person could lie to this degree--that it was almost believable.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) guys, please let's not loose all perspective and give these people too much credit here, ok?

my ex did what she felt she needed to try and be happy--but in the end it is obvious that she was desperate, in pain and quite a bit sadistic. screw her version of happiness and i say that wholeheartedly. not one fiber of my being is jealous of her 'happiness' and it may be a good idea for all of us to really re-evaluate things and separate the reality from the lies.

being an expert at lying to yourself and blatantly lying to others about your 'happiness' because of unresolved childhood wounds or brain chemistry/physiology is nothing to be jealous of. go read some other boards where pwBPD talk about how they feel pretty much all the time, it's horrible. they feel so horrible that they feel they have to lie just to try and be normal. i mean, come on, really?  Being cool (click to insert in post)
Logged
Perfidy
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced/18 years Single/5 months that I know of.
Posts: 1594



« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2013, 01:44:33 PM »

The woman I divorced about 18 years ago... .I didn't really ever apply the borderline equation to her... .Maybe she is... .Maybe they all are... How many times has it been said about women... They're ALL crazy? Don't get your panties in a bunch ladies you say the same thing about guys! Don't lie!

Anyways... .The ex wife... When we split I was SURE that she was so much happier than me. She was seeing guys that appeared much better off financially than me... .Better looking than me... Just all around better partners for her... .But in my mind only. True enough... She hooked up with quite a few guys after we split but right now she is single and we are friends. All of the guys that she was with couldn't make her happy. I won't lie... .It took a LONG time to get there... .The point I'm trying to make is that while appearances were that she was so much happier than I was,the truth was quite different. The only thing that really changed was my perception. I am one hundred percent positive that if I am thinking crazy girl is happy... .I'm probably wrong.
Logged
Numbers
Formerly "4 8 15 16 23 42"
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 140


« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2013, 01:57:39 PM »

go read some other boards where pwBPD talk about how they feel pretty much all the time, it's horrible. they feel so horrible that they feel they have to lie just to try and be normal. i mean, come on, really?  Being cool (click to insert in post)

And what would I find there? Same lies as we all had for days/months/years. Come on, by definition, a pwBPD would do and say anything... ANYTHING to come clear. So, what all these "confessions" mean? Awww... .poor me, poor me, pity me, come and save me, get destroyed in the process.

For me, this thread is not a single bit about who is right/moral/normal etc. In my mind, what I try to do is live a positive life and anything I do gets measured versus my own system of values, that for a few years was exchanged for an insane person's system of values. It is not the point. What matters is what she and I ultimately got out of it.

She got a temporary respite from what we presume is suffering. And during my YEARS of dealing with that insanity, I was witness to exactly THREE occasions where she was "smiten" by her previous deeds. In total, that amounted to what... .let's be generous... .10 hours of suffering? I am now 90-something days out. Every one of these days was hell of broken dreams, wishes, ideals. Yeah, call me whiney, call me weak, call me stupid, but trust me, at this minute, I'd rather be out there, partying, having fun and sex then bending in pain. 90x24/10=> over this specific period in time, I am sufferting over TWO HUNDRED times more then she is. Can a PD make you suffer two hundred times more then a "normal" person in some other period in time? No, I am not buying it.

In before "but there is nothing you can do but heal yourself". Yeah, I agree. Still, it does not make it right and I see this more an abstract argument, as in the only thing that will make it right will never ever happen.

Logged
Perfidy
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced/18 years Single/5 months that I know of.
Posts: 1594



« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2013, 02:21:43 PM »

Numbers... .What's stopping you? I did that... Partying,women,having some wild times... .Go ahead... It might just be the release you need. Meet other people... Make new memories. It helps... .to heck with her.
Logged
Aw511
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 85


« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2013, 02:34:38 PM »

I have been so destroyed by my breakup (which, coincidentally, has been going on longer than the actual relationship) while my exbf seems completely fine and the sole reason is because he is so well versed at lying to himself. He says things like "things just weren't clicking anymore" and "it just didn't work out" and "we both made mistakes" (he lied, cheated, manipulated, emotionally abused me, while i sat there and tried to love him and has continued to harass me post break up). He tells me how he has hope for the future and getting married to someone someday, meanwhile, having learned NOTHING from our relationship. He did a quick stint in therapy right after the breakup and doesn't seem interested anymore, now that his feelings of guilt and shame are gone. I vacillate between being frustrated and angry at his lack of understanding, and being really sad for him because it really seems like he doesn't think he is the problem despite much evidence to the contrary. He lies to himself to survive. If someone who treated others the way they do wasn't able to rationalize and deny their behavior, I imagine they would lose their will to live very quickly. He sees nothing of what he does. It's heartbreaking. For him and everyone else.
Logged
Century2012
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: His "best friend." My illumination of my childhood needs for love not being met. Just as his were not.
Posts: 134



WWW
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2013, 03:02:33 PM »

Hello all, it has been awhile.

As I read through the posts on this thread, I wanted to share what I did. I now sleep well and, at least for now, recall the pain but do not feel it acutely.

I stood up for myself. I had contact 6 months after the break up to return some items of his in my storage unit. I admit I picked a fight a month later because I received no acknowledgement or thank you. (Left at front desk of condo.)

I called him out. I said I was tired of listening to his cry baby tears of feeling bad about himself and always being there for him when he had a melt down. Then experiencing his all "manic" behavior and cleaning up the messes that he creates.

I had a court official call him to tell him to leave me alone. And his psycho kitty new love interest. (She had the nerve to repeat his words to me in a text about the fact that he said he never loved me. Whatever.)

I WILL NOT be recycled whenever he has a fight with his new "object."

BTW. This is what he said. Word for word. I left Kathy (me). I have me a new one. A new one! A new victim.

I know it is a personality disorder that causes them to ache inside and need constant assuaging. But that is NOT my problem!

I quit tip toeing and being supportive. I probably sounded a smidge mental when I went off on him. But, dang, it felt good!
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
Amethyste
Angie59
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
assumezero
At Bay
Avanzando
Baglady
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaintTheGoat
FaithHopeLove
FindingMe2011
Forgiveness
freespirit
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
hopeandchoices
I Am Redeemed
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Jonthan
Katrinalove
Kwamina
l8kgrl
LLgreen
Longterm
lorymac
lovenature
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Meridius
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
needPeace
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
once removed
Only Human
otherlife
palynne
PeacefulMom
Pedro
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
Sad4Her
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SBBayArea
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Silverhope
Skip
songbirdtwo
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
townhouse
truthbeknown
turtleengine501
Ventak
vinnie77
Violet00
wavewatcher
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
Whichwayisup
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zachira
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!