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Author Topic: Why they seem happier than we are  (Read 8156 times)
DownandOut
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« on: December 05, 2013, 10:58:29 AM »

I recently read an interesting article here www.huffingtonpost.com/hippo-reads/success-and-motivation_b_4357669.html that describes lying to oneself as a way to make ourselves happier. I, personally, think it's disingenuous because I am a truth-seeker and an intellectual who relies on my analytical skills to get through life. Nevertheless, the article makes some interesting points and I couldn't help but apply it to my situation with my uBPDexgf. There's a lot of discussion on these boards about our pwBPD's ability to shut down their emotions and convince themselves that we've done them wrong so that they don't have to feel the shame and regret of their behavior.  Unlike my pwBPD, I'm the kind of person that deals in reality. Unfortunately, in light of that article, it appears that science has backed up the idea that lying to ourselves and using that defense mechanism we're all equipped with helps us to be happier. I'm not advocating suppressing our thoughts or emotions like our pwBPDs; however, I do think that the article brings up some interesting ideas that may help us heal a little better. What does everyone think?
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beautifuldisaster123

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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 11:15:37 AM »

They are not happy. They would like you to think that they are. They would never admit to making bad choices or taking the blame for anything it's a defense mechanism.

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beautifuldisaster123

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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 11:16:42 AM »

At least in my experience it's ignore runaway pretend like it didn't happen and not care about who got hurt in the process.
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DownandOut
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 11:24:53 AM »

BD,

I agree. However, the point I was making was that science has actually backed up the fact that they at least think they are happier because they are constantly lying to themselves.
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 11:40:52 AM »

My ex lied to me regularly. I told her it seemed like she was living a lie. So she lies to herself... .I'll buy that. If I don't believe her lies then who is she lying to. One of us always lies and the other always tells the truth... .She's lying.
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 12:52:38 PM »

Oh, the ever recurring question: Are they better off?

I, for one, am not buying the regular answer that it is just a facade.

Please do not judge my sarcasm. I am alone, down and half-drunk. While she is somewhere partying, getting validated and living the life I once had.

When I think back, I was often a tool to be used to soothe. And I can remember how it was. Spending hours, weekends... .soothing, just to send her on her merry way to create more destruction. And so it is almost certain there is someone else now doing the soothing if needed. Would I do it again? Probably, I do not want to spend the rest of my life in fear of clinical insanity. Maybe my next would need no soothing, maybe soothing would be justifiable and lead to greater connection, but I do not think I will ever have the strength to turn my back to someone in need.

But the destruction inflicted upon my spirit and soul is real and even if she lies down some evening in discomfort, it is not comparable to 24/7 agony I have to live through. In fact, all the misery she will ever truly feel in her life added would probably not equal what I already had to go through.

There will be no recompense, no justice, no karma and no balance. Ever.

Truly sorry for negativity, but I am currently so broken it's ridiculous.  :'(
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damage control
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 02:13:16 PM »

I should preface by saying that I haven't read the article so perhaps I am just having a misinformed and knee-jerk reaction here but ... .I am inclined to think/say that there is a MASSIVE difference between the lies that most people tell themselves (and I am of the opinion that none of us is truly grounded in 'reality' -whatever that means- 24/7).

For example ... .I may hear or read about famine/war/catastrophe in a foreign country and feel terrible for those in the aftermath. I may truly 'wish and hope' that things turn out OK and they are able to move on and heal. Perhaps this country is desperate for volunteers to go there and contribute their time or are asking for financial aid to help survivors. I most probably do neither. The 'lie' I tell myself is that I am too busy/whatever to go and help and that I cannot 'afford' to donate monetarily to help. If I was brutally honest, I would have to admit that, if pushed, I could perhaps do both of these - in 'reality', I choose not to.

It's an extreme example ... .but I think we tell ourselves lies of convenience every single day - we would go nuts otherwise - the world is a brutal place if you want to look it square in the eye every day ... .we need a filter.

BUT ... I see this as entirely different from the systematic deception and lies of (my) ex and his ilk. His/their lies are predicated on the want/need (and yes, I do think want is in that mix) to have their own way, control those around them and have their own needs met - AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS.

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goldylamont
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 02:44:26 PM »

well, here's the deal--pwBPD tend to be selfish and only care about feeling good themselves. and the fact that so many of them do the exact same thing--finding a new victim at the drop of a hat; boasting about overblown romances over and over and over... .well, yeah i'm sure this makes them feel good to some extent. i'm sure if you're a cheater or a liar and you hate yourself that it feels really good to say that it's other people who are the problem, and yeah i'm sure it feels good to act like you're someone with integrity and as if you care about someone new when you know you're just going to use them and move on and repeat the cycle. i would agree and say yes, that it does bring some type of relief or sense of power to pwBPD to do all of these things--as selfish as they are, they wouldn't do them unless it made them feel good.

but, am i mad that i can't and won't do the same to try and be happy? no. am i jealous of them while they act like lunatics? no. does this mean i may go through pain initially because i choose to face reality rather than try and dupe one person after the next to run away from reality? yes. but i'm fine with this. i'll accept the pain actually--because i'm far stronger and courageous than anyone who chooses to run and abuse others. and i'm not saying this in some halmark card kind of way. i truly do feel like these people are just weak--not the totality of them but the disordered BPD part of their psyche.

they were abused. so now they abuse others. this is the closest they will get to happiness. to me this is just sad, but hey it is what it is.

we were abused by them--but do we abuse others in return?

i guess what i'm saying is that even though i know my ex is full of isht and tries to boost her own ego at the expense of countless others; i could care less in a sense. yeah i know it's working for her, but it doesn't make me afraid. i know i can feel better than she ever will and not have to be an a$$hole in the process  Smiling (click to insert in post) and that's true strength, based in reality   
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 03:03:28 PM »

I recently read an interesting article here www.huffingtonpost.com/hippo-reads/success-and-motivation_b_4357669.html that describes lying to oneself as a way to make ourselves happier. I, personally, think it's disingenuous because I am a truth-seeker and an intellectual who relies on my analytical skills to get through life. Nevertheless, the article makes some interesting points and I couldn't help but apply it to my situation with my uBPDexgf. There's a lot of discussion on these boards about our pwBPD's ability to shut down their emotions and convince themselves that we've done them wrong so that they don't have to feel the shame and regret of their behavior.  Unlike my pwBPD, I'm the kind of person that deals in reality. Unfortunately, in light of that article, it appears that science has backed up the idea that lying to ourselves and using that defense mechanism we're all equipped with helps us to be happier. I'm not advocating suppressing our thoughts or emotions like our pwBPDs; however, I do think that the article brings up some interesting ideas that may help us heal a little better. What does everyone think?

I did read the article. It was interesting.  And I suggest people read it (it is short) so they can respond to the intent of the poster, as opposed to reciting the rhetoric we have learned on this site.

The point of the article, from my perspective, is successful people "deceive themselves" into success. Or, people who refuse to accept "reality" and who create their own, often succeed. Or, reframing a negative into a positive has advantages.

I find it interesting because I am rethinking things for myself. We are all here whining about how our ex's moved on and seem happy. And we are whining because they have moved on while we are stuck in a perpetual hell. Which seems healthier?

One thing that seems to strike me about people who supposedly have BPD, is they rarely stay in any situation where their needs (whatever those are) are not being met. Is that nutty? Or, maybe that is freakin normal? 

Maybe we are the ones with the problem cuz we stay mired in the muck?

I'm not saying our ex's don't have problems. They do. And, we have problems for staying with them when our needs aren't being met, or when they treated us badly, or when they <insertpreference here>.

Maybe we need to be reframing things for ourselves to serve ourselves. Maybe we need to deceive ourselves into happiness.

Cognitive theory postulates that if you want to feel differently, you need to think differently. Food for thought.

Thanks Down for sharing this article.

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DownandOut
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 03:07:25 PM »

well, here's the deal--pwBPD tend to be selfish and only care about feeling good themselves. and the fact that so many of them do the exact same thing--finding a new victim at the drop of a hat; boasting about overblown romances over and over and over... .well, yeah i'm sure this makes them feel good to some extent. i'm sure if you're a cheater or a liar and you hate yourself that it feels really good to say that it's other people who are the problem, and yeah i'm sure it feels good to act like you're someone with integrity and as if you care about someone new when you know you're just going to use them and move on and repeat the cycle. i would agree and say yes, that it does bring some type of relief or sense of power to pwBPD to do all of these things--as selfish as they are, they wouldn't do them unless it made them feel good.

but, am i mad that i can't and won't do the same to try and be happy? no. am i jealous of them while they act like lunatics? no. does this mean i may go through pain initially because i choose to face reality rather than try and dupe one person after the next to run away from reality? yes. but i'm fine with this. i'll accept the pain actually--because i'm far stronger and courageous than anyone who chooses to run and abuse others. and i'm not saying this in some halmark card kind of way. i truly do feel like these people are just weak--not the totality of them but the disordered BPD part of their psyche.

they were abused. so now they abuse others. this is the closest they will get to happiness. to me this is just sad, but hey it is what it is.

we were abused by them--but do we abuse others in return?

i guess what i'm saying is that even though i know my ex is full of isht and tries to boost her own ego at the expense of countless others; i could care less in a sense. yeah i know it's working for her, but it doesn't make me afraid. i know i can feel better than she ever will and not have to be an a$$hole in the process  Smiling (click to insert in post) and that's true strength, based in reality   

All good points. I think for me it's about being frustrated that she could just turn off her feelings for me that I believed were real and then move on to some new shmo and at least feel happy even if it's temporary and she has to leave a path of destruction in her wake to achieve it. I'm not envious, but the way I feel right now I wish I had that same safety valve that she has. I wish I could stop the pain I'm feeling with some cheap bandaid. I tried, believe me. I've dated, but I'm not there yet. I hope I will be one day because since I met my uBPDexgf, my life has never been the same.
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DownandOut
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 03:12:38 PM »

I recently read an interesting article here www.huffingtonpost.com/hippo-reads/success-and-motivation_b_4357669.html that describes lying to oneself as a way to make ourselves happier. I, personally, think it's disingenuous because I am a truth-seeker and an intellectual who relies on my analytical skills to get through life. Nevertheless, the article makes some interesting points and I couldn't help but apply it to my situation with my uBPDexgf. There's a lot of discussion on these boards about our pwBPD's ability to shut down their emotions and convince themselves that we've done them wrong so that they don't have to feel the shame and regret of their behavior.  Unlike my pwBPD, I'm the kind of person that deals in reality. Unfortunately, in light of that article, it appears that science has backed up the idea that lying to ourselves and using that defense mechanism we're all equipped with helps us to be happier. I'm not advocating suppressing our thoughts or emotions like our pwBPDs; however, I do think that the article brings up some interesting ideas that may help us heal a little better. What does everyone think?

I did read the article. It was interesting.  And I suggest people read it (it is short) so they can respond to the intent of the poster, as opposed to reciting the rhetoric we have learned on this site.

The point of the article, from my perspective, is successful people "deceive themselves" into success. Or, people who refuse to accept "reality" and who create their own, often succeed. Or, reframing a negative into a positive has advantages.

I find it interesting because I am rethinking things for myself. We are all here whining about how our ex's moved on and seem happy. And we are whining because they have moved on while we are stuck in a perpetual hell. Which seems healthier?

One thing that seems to strike me about people who supposedly have BPD, is they rarely stay in any situation where their needs (whatever those are) are not being met. Is that nutty? Or, maybe that is freakin normal? 

Maybe we are the ones with the problem cuz we stay mired in the muck?

I'm not saying our ex's don't have problems. They do. And, we have problems for staying with them when our needs aren't being met, or when they treated us badly, or when they <insertpreference here>.

Maybe we need to be reframing things for ourselves to serve ourselves. Maybe we need to deceive ourselves into happiness.

Cognitive theory postulates that if you want to feel differently, you need to think differently. Food for thought.

Thanks Down for sharing this article.


Thank you Alliance for your response. It was exactly the type of response I was looking for when I posted it. I wondered the same thing myself, should I lie, or at least turn the thoughts I'm having around like she does. The question is do we need to shape our thoughts to fit our own narrative the way a pwBPD does to actually feel happy, even if it isn't true? I'm not so sure it wouldn't be helpful to us as nons who've suffered through this type of r/s.
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alliance
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 04:04:46 PM »

Thank you Alliance for your response. It was exactly the type of response I was looking for when I posted it. I wondered the same thing myself, should I lie, or at least turn the thoughts I'm having around like she does. The question is do we need to shape our thoughts to fit our own narrative the way a pwBPD does to actually feel happy, even if it isn't true? I'm not so sure it wouldn't be helpful to us as nons who've suffered through this type of r/s.

Down, I am still trying to figure this out for myself.

I don't know that I consider "reframing" to be lying. If I shift my thinking from my ex done me wrong to something like I deserve to be happy... .is that lying? If I shift from my ex destroyed my self esteem to I am a worthy person with good points and bad points... .is that lying?

And, as I am not mentally ill, I don't consider it to be comparable to anything my disordered ex might do.

I also find reframing to be empowering. So much of this process is focusing on our ex's, what BPD is, how it affects them and us, how to deal with it, how to walk away from it... .it just seems to be a huge focus on them. It is like they continue to control our thoughts and monopolize our energy, and they aren't even around anymore. It is empowering to shift the focus back onto ourselves, what we want, what we need, what makes us happy etc.

I think the other thing on my mind lately, is we can benefit from being more self centered, self absorbed in life. It is our life. It is our happiness. It is ours to do as we wish. We have the right to be selfish. It is healthy for us to be selfish to an extent. To not be selfish means waiting for someone else or some of the gods or fate to bring happiness to us. That's not even logical. Actually it borders on magical thinking.

I have no idea where I am going with this. Something is shifting in me and I think it is a good thing.

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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 04:15:02 PM »

Ok... I went back and read the article... .What hit me first about deceiving myself to be happy is the fact that I was doing exactly that in my relationship with my exBPDgf. I was lying to myself. Now I need to lie to myself more to be happy again. Seems like everything has to be a lie. What happened to self honesty? To thine own self be true. I know several successful people that aren't happy. My self included... .I'm not happy all of the time. Sometimes I am. When I achieve my happieness I won't have to blow smoke up my own ass. My ex... Who gives a crap about her phony bologna bull honky
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 04:38:12 PM »

This is a very good point and I think it is a lot more complex than simply lying to yourself.  The human body needs to grieve when sadness strikes.  The mind needs to heal when it is damaged.  We are doing these things.  The are not.  What is the end result?  I don't know but ultimately I think we will be happier in the future because we are able to feel and give love.  Isn't that what life is about?  We live and we love.  Sometimes because we love we get hurt.  It reminds me of the Garth Brooks song "The Dance".  I am glad that I can listen to that song and feel pain right now.  I think at some point we need to pick ourselves up by the boot straps and move on.  When do we do this?  Another good question.

They can lie to themselves but it will eventually catch up to them in the form of chronic illnesses, depression, anxiety and for some suicide.   Bottom line is that we are all eventually better off getting away from these people.  They are just a drain on anyone associated with them. 
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 05:28:09 PM »

This thread has tickled my mind, made me think and smile - and I haven't even read the article yet! Love it when a new paradigm shifting perspective drops out of nowhere. Just what I need right now. Off to read the article.

Thanks
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 05:48:24 PM »

But the destruction inflicted upon my spirit and soul is real and even if she lies down some evening in discomfort, it is not comparable to 24/7 agony I have to live through. In fact, all the misery she will ever truly feel in her life added would probably not equal what I already had to go through.

There will be no recompense, no justice, no karma and no balance. Ever.

Truly sorry for negativity, but I am currently so broken it's ridiculous.  :'(

my sympathies, 481. i'm in exactly the same place.
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 09:04:35 PM »

I should preface by saying that I haven't read the article so perhaps I am just having a misinformed and knee-jerk reaction here but ... .I am inclined to think/say that there is a MASSIVE difference between the lies that most people tell themselves (and I am of the opinion that none of us is truly grounded in 'reality' -whatever that means- 24/7).

For example ... .I may hear or read about famine/war/catastrophe in a foreign country and feel terrible for those in the aftermath. I may truly 'wish and hope' that things turn out OK and they are able to move on and heal. Perhaps this country is desperate for volunteers to go there and contribute their time or are asking for financial aid to help survivors. I most probably do neither. The 'lie' I tell myself is that I am too busy/whatever to go and help and that I cannot 'afford' to donate monetarily to help. If I was brutally honest, I would have to admit that, if pushed, I could perhaps do both of these - in 'reality', I choose not to.

It's an extreme example ... .but I think we tell ourselves lies of convenience every single day - we would go nuts otherwise - the world is a brutal place if you want to look it square in the eye every day ... .we need a filter.

BUT ... I see this as entirely different from the systematic deception and lies of (my) ex and his ilk. His/their lies are predicated on the want/need (and yes, I do think want is in that mix) to have their own way, control those around them and have their own needs met - AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS.

That was deep, Damage Control. Very insightful. I think this is exactly what happens.
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 09:54:36 PM »

Interesting article. It leads to one question, why the need to lie to oneself to begin with? A lie is a lie. Can you, me, or anyone else on here honestly be able to look at oneself in the mirror after we have lied to ourselves to make us feel a little bit happier? For me, I cannot.
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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 04:30:51 AM »

Oh, the ever recurring question: Are they better off?

I, for one, am not buying the regular answer that it is just a facade.

Please do not judge my sarcasm. I am alone, down and half-drunk. While she is somewhere partying, getting validated and living the life I once had.

When I think back, I was often a tool to be used to soothe. And I can remember how it was. Spending hours, weekends... .soothing, just to send her on her merry way to create more destruction. And so it is almost certain there is someone else now doing the soothing if needed. Would I do it again? Probably, I do not want to spend the rest of my life in fear of clinical insanity. Maybe my next would need no soothing, maybe soothing would be justifiable and lead to greater connection, but I do not think I will ever have the strength to turn my back to someone in need.

But the destruction inflicted upon my spirit and soul is real and even if she lies down some evening in discomfort, it is not comparable to 24/7 agony I have to live through. In fact, all the misery she will ever truly feel in her life added would probably not equal what I already had to go through.

There will be no recompense, no justice, no karma and no balance. Ever.

Truly sorry for negativity, but I am currently so broken it's ridiculous.  :'(

Right,

I'm sorry I can't let this go, Son you are hurting... .toxic hateful destroyed hurt. They have damaged you, physically, emotionally, mentally, sexually and spiritually.

They leave their poison in us and we feel like them for a while. It's like some voodoo where they are healed by transferring their sickness to us.

You sound like a pitiful waif, this is how they justify their hideous treatment of those around them. You must start to treat yourself like a human being, not like an abuser and victim in one.

Life has to be lived with courage friend... .

Get yourself clean from the demons that stalk you, demons put into you by others.

Love to you, accept it, love yourself, become it

You will be stronger, wiser, better

Hell, you may even be happy


Good luck
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BuildingFromScratch
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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 05:37:50 AM »

Oh, the ever recurring question: Are they better off?

I, for one, am not buying the regular answer that it is just a facade.

Please do not judge my sarcasm. I am alone, down and half-drunk. While she is somewhere partying, getting validated and living the life I once had.

When I think back, I was often a tool to be used to soothe. And I can remember how it was. Spending hours, weekends... .soothing, just to send her on her merry way to create more destruction. And so it is almost certain there is someone else now doing the soothing if needed. Would I do it again? Probably, I do not want to spend the rest of my life in fear of clinical insanity. Maybe my next would need no soothing, maybe soothing would be justifiable and lead to greater connection, but I do not think I will ever have the strength to turn my back to someone in need.

But the destruction inflicted upon my spirit and soul is real and even if she lies down some evening in discomfort, it is not comparable to 24/7 agony I have to live through. In fact, all the misery she will ever truly feel in her life added would probably not equal what I already had to go through.

There will be no recompense, no justice, no karma and no balance. Ever.

Truly sorry for negativity, but I am currently so broken it's ridiculous.  :'(

My soul was nearly completely destroyed too. I sat in a room with urine bottles and cigarette butts everywhere, not showering and drinking every day for a month. I thought I was the most useless piece of crap in the world. I came out of it, you can too. I'm so sorry for what you have been through. You deserved so much more.

I actually believe the opposite though, there is karma. They are in a mental hell and have been their entire lives. They are good actresses and pretenders, what you see is an illusion, don't buy it. They know the truth, even if they can't handle being attacked for it. They also have no stability in their lives and never will, unless they get a lot of treatment.
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2013, 05:45:29 AM »

I actually believe the opposite. They are in a mental hell and have been their entire lives. They are good actresses and pretenders, what you see is an illusion, don't buy it. They know the truth, even if they can't handle being attacked for it.

I agree. I watched my exBPD suffer for years locked up in her room for months at a time. I got a lot of calls and I can tell that it is NOT fun... .especially not at the end of the day when they realize what they've done.
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2013, 07:16:40 AM »

Great article, thanks for sharing. 

I personally do not think they are happier.   Their "needs" were not being met so they jump to another "host".

Their needs will never be met.  They are an endless pit of needs that change faster than anyone can possibly process. 

Plus their needs change on the dime. 

They don't even know what they want. 

I think a lot of it is their "ideal" of the new person.  Their fantasy of this new person saving them when they cannot save themselves. 

I got blamed for not being "present" in my last relationship.  After being dumped 6x in close to two years I became numb.  I wanted her to make friends (something she didn't have-red flag) and I kept busy and encouraged her to do so. 

I got left for one of those friends. 

In a good relationship (non BPD) there is trust on both sides.  I trusted her until she violated it and left me for an ex. 

I remember our last conversation... .the one that painted me blacker than black. 

I said "you are uncapable of loving someone fully"

She responded, "I'm fine with myself, thanks. "

I responded, "at least someone is"

It was mean but true. 

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Daughter 15, Son 14
Posts: 644



« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2013, 07:34:04 AM »

Think how you feel/felt when coming out of the RS... .that is them, how they feel, what they try to hide, to repress.

They are in hell... .
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Naddred369
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 107



« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2013, 11:50:39 AM »

My ex wasnt happier after round 1. When we got back together in a rare discussion on her feelings she told me she knew she had made a mistake leaving within 3 weeks but her pride stopped her coming back. She told me she was unhappy and missed me in secret and thought of me most days. She slept in my shirts. When I went back for round 2 ALL my things were exactly as I had left them, I asked why, she said coz they are yours! I asked did my replacement not get annoyed with my things everywhere? She said yes, but so what? She wasnt happy. She isnt happy now! She will pretend she is and I will toughen up and wait till she wants to re engage again and this time she can f#/@ right off!

They are not happy!
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Jbt857
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 271


« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »

Oh, the ever recurring question: Are they better off?

I, for one, am not buying the regular answer that it is just a facade.

Please do not judge my sarcasm. I am alone, down and half-drunk. While she is somewhere partying, getting validated and living the life I once had.

When I think back, I was often a tool to be used to soothe. And I can remember how it was. Spending hours, weekends... .soothing, just to send her on her merry way to create more destruction. And so it is almost certain there is someone else now doing the soothing if needed. Would I do it again? Probably, I do not want to spend the rest of my life in fear of clinical insanity. Maybe my next would need no soothing, maybe soothing would be justifiable and lead to greater connection, but I do not think I will ever have the strength to turn my back to someone in need.

But the destruction inflicted upon my spirit and soul is real and even if she lies down some evening in discomfort, it is not comparable to 24/7 agony I have to live through. In fact, all the misery she will ever truly feel in her life added would probably not equal what I already had to go through.

There will be no recompense, no justice, no karma and no balance. Ever.

Truly sorry for negativity, but I am currently so broken it's ridiculous.  :'(

I feel like this too. I know they are theoretically suffering more than us, but my BPDexh is in complete denial that he has a problem. He self medicates with weed, and is with my replacement, partying, and as far as I understand, the decade of our marriage is erased from his mind. He comes from a faith where the belief is that life is predetermined so he is able to just think 'it was meant to be this way,' and move on without a backward glance. For him to suffer, he would have to be thinking a lot more deeply and possess a much greater self awareness than I believe him to be capable of.

While I'm here, suffering. Mostly, I think it is our self awareness and the need to grieve our loss that causes the majority of that pain.

The article reminded me of the whole 'power of positive thinking' and I've read a lot that for some people, that just doesn't work for some people. I think the idea of deceiving our way to happiness by reframing things is probably the same. For Some people it probably works a treat, for others, less so. Even if it was just a facade, I wish I could just drag myself out of how I feel, even if that meant lying to myself a little.

But as I think we all know, our minds aren't quite so easily deceived. If only they were!

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rosannadanna
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« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2013, 12:34:08 PM »

Downandout,

The article you posted links to another interesting article:

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/200811/essential-secrets-psychotherapy-truth-lies-and-self-deception

The author focuses on "my baggage a deux" (which is interesting but not really applicable to this thread) but he also discusses the concept of cognitive dissonance,.  This is basically self-deception that seem to occur on a spectrum, all the way from delusion to denial.  We all experience cognitive dissonance every day and it occurs on an unconscious level.  We do it b/c  "unadulterated confrontation with the truth about oneself is almost always initially experienced as an insult to the ego--a devastating blow to our narcissism."

So it's really not about happiness, IMO.  It's about preserving our sense of self.  This self-deception is probably more pronounced in pwBPD (or NPD) b/c their sense of self is so fragile.
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Bulgakov
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Posts: 100


« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2013, 12:58:58 PM »

Maybe someone has already mentioned this.

The average person has the ability to see black and white, and grey in people. They can see different perspectives or at least understand that a perspective (or frame) can change. pwBPD lie to themselves in a more dissociative/psychotic manner. They can't see the black/white/grey, just black or white, separately.

Big difference between seeing the social/environmental factors in some of your personal problems and blaming your personal problems 100% on other people.
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hergestridge
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 760


« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2013, 04:12:40 AM »

"Lying to yourself" (as in the article posted) is nothing abnormal or destructive. Healthy people do it. I do it and my BPD wife does it.

But my BPD wife does it in inadequate situations and she does it too often.

An example: she prefers to forget her past failures, going as far as convincing herself that they didn't happen or that the failures were the result of some external factor (not true, but the explanation reduces pain). As a result, learning doesn't happen and my wife fails to solve the same problem/task over and over because of her failure to learn.

I only "lie to myself" when I know it's safe and deep down I know the truth. There's an awareness. With my wife it's a self-suggestion sometimes ending with her erasing the unwanted event from her memory bank altogether.

Sorry for posting on the "leaving" board, but I just wanted to throw my two cents in on the subject of "lying to yourself" as related to BPD. Great subject!
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Cardinals in Flight
formerly NurseRatchet
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 652



« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2013, 06:52:25 AM »

Oh, the ever recurring question: Are they better off?

I, for one, am not buying the regular answer that it is just a facade.

Please do not judge my sarcasm. I am alone, down and half-drunk. While she is somewhere partying, getting validated and living the life I once had.

When I think back, I was often a tool to be used to soothe. And I can remember how it was. Spending hours, weekends... .soothing, just to send her on her merry way to create more destruction. And so it is almost certain there is someone else now doing the soothing if needed. Would I do it again? Probably, I do not want to spend the rest of my life in fear of clinical insanity. Maybe my next would need no soothing, maybe soothing would be justifiable and lead to greater connection, but I do not think I will ever have the strength to turn my back to someone in need.

But the destruction inflicted upon my spirit and soul is real and even if she lies down some evening in discomfort, it is not comparable to 24/7 agony I have to live through. In fact, all the misery she will ever truly feel in her life added would probably not equal what I already had to go through.

There will be no recompense, no justice, no karma and no balance. Ever.

Truly sorry for negativity, but I am currently so broken it's ridiculous.  :'(

I am where you are  :'( :'(, so broken its ridiculous.
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Ironmanrises
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1774


« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2013, 08:12:36 AM »

Had I not experienced my exUBPDgf returning to me 3 months after first discarding me, I would have been of the mind frame too of the belief that she was happy in the timeframe after leaving me. When I let her back in for round 2, and allowed her back into my social media(fb/IG I had her blocked in the NC between both rounds), I read through her posts from that time period. All that I saw was fake happiness with the re idealization of me as time progressed up until she returned to me in round 2. It was there sprinkled throughout her social media. In devaluation period in round 2, I experienced the same exact fake happiness being projected as she systematically destroyed my self esteem via fb/IG. This time, it was under the guise of "personal development" and that f¥cking self help book "The Secret", which promotes "positive thinking and attracting positive energy instead of negative"( Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)). I have to laugh/cry/scream at the sheer hypocrisy of that. I was the MOST positive person in her life. I accepted her AS SHE REALLY IS, disordered. And she still discarded me. What makes me think, and for that matter, all of you as well, that mine and yours, are really happy now after leaving us/or you having left them? I bent and contorted myself(not healthy I know) in all shapes and sizes to make her happy and she still f¥cking discarded me, I will assume it was not that different for most of you. After all of that, what makes me think anyone else could make her happy(if she replaced me), if even with all of that, I couldn't make a dent? She isn't happy. Apologies for my rant. Needed to let that out.
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