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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Why they seem happier than we are  (Read 8188 times)
DownandOut
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« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2013, 03:31:11 PM »

i can't help but hopefully curb this discussion back to the realm of reality that pwBPD, as another person playfully posted "can lie while drinking a glass of water". seriously, i would never, ever consider my exBPD as happier than I! her whole r/s after we broke up was so fake, she swore up and down that she was so in love with this guy and told me how so great he was and yelled it out to the world to try and discredit and devalue me. and it was so unbelievable that a person could lie to this degree--that it was almost believable.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) guys, please let's not loose all perspective and give these people too much credit here, ok?

my ex did what she felt she needed to try and be happy--but in the end it is obvious that she was desperate, in pain and quite a bit sadistic. screw her version of happiness and i say that wholeheartedly. not one fiber of my being is jealous of her 'happiness' and it may be a good idea for all of us to really re-evaluate things and separate the reality from the lies.

being an expert at lying to yourself and blatantly lying to others about your 'happiness' because of unresolved childhood wounds or brain chemistry/physiology is nothing to be jealous of. go read some other boards where pwBPD talk about how they feel pretty much all the time, it's horrible. they feel so horrible that they feel they have to lie just to try and be normal. i mean, come on, really?  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Thank you for this. One of the many hurdles I'm facing on my path back to normalcy is the idea that she is better off with my replacement because of some deficiency of mine. The truth is, and I'm conscious of this, that she isn't happy and that I actually forced her into being with this guy because I left the r/s before she could leave me. She was definitely involved with my replacement before the r/s ended and when I tried to save the r/s she told me that she loved me but she wasn't sure it was enough to sustain it and that she "didn't want to lose me." I think that she was waiting to see if it worked out with him before she left, but I never gave her the chance. Maybe it did work out, maybe it didn't. I don't know, but I would be lying if I said that I don't care. Of course I wish that it turned out like yours did because I would be vindicated in some odd way. Regardless, I doubt she's really happy and the only thing I could say to myself that would make me feel better is that if it does work out and she IS happy, then it was meant to be and if true love was destined for her despite her evil ways than it certainly is meant for me too.
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maxen
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« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2013, 03:42:56 PM »

there's a divide on this thread (and on this site). i'm in therapy, and will be in for a while, and i've benefitted from it. i've started AlAnon, my BPDstbxw was/is an alcohol abuser but even if she wasn't i have to learn in all aspects of life to let go more consistently. in short, i'm trying to work on myself.

but the persistent attempts to detour those of us who have been eviscerated by the actions of our BPs into attention to the self and only to the self has two unhappy consequences and one faulty presumption. the unhappy consequences are that our violation is demeaned and their actions are exculpated (by removing them from a moral calculus, and there is always a moral calculus). the faulty presumption is that we (nons) have more or less the same emotional capacities and will benefit in the same way from the same protocol. a specific kind of happiness comes out of a (good) relationship that does not come from any other source.

In all honesty, we also have dual standards when it comes to emotional damage. If someone comes and chops both your legs off, well, you will never ever walk again no matter how much you get over it. But somehow it is ok to label us nons as weak because we cannot repair quickly while honestly we got mutilated, just not visibly so.

i.imgur.com/CWFTYoV.png

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goldylamont
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« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2013, 04:35:47 PM »

there's a divide on this thread (and on this site)... .

... .but the persistent attempts to detour those of us who have been eviscerated by the actions of our BPs into attention to the self and only to the self has two unhappy consequences and one faulty presumption. the unhappy consequences are that our violation is demeaned and their actions are exculpated (by removing them from a moral calculus, and there is always a moral calculus). the faulty presumption is that we (nons) have more or less the same emotional capacities and will benefit in the same way from the same protocol. a specific kind of happiness comes out of a (good) relationship that does not come from any other source.

i.imgur.com/CWFTYoV.png

maxen, first of all -- that pic is hilarious! thanks for sharing I've totally felt this way sometimes and i appreciate the humor Smiling (click to insert in post)

secondly, maxen i completely agree with you about how there is a divide--or perhaps easier to say there is a spectrum to nons just as there is a spectrum to high vs. low functioning pwBPD. from my experience here i've felt the need to defend myself when just because i don't consider myself to be a codependent and i don't think i have major childhood issues which attract pwBPD to me like bees to honey. for me, it's kind of just something that happened (although there are def some reasons of my own), and it's just a learning experience. personally i feel like i'm learning more about the world at large than i am learning about some personal faults of my own... .but this seems different from many other's experiences. i'd love to (and have meant to) start a different thread on this.

that being said, i'm hoping my posts aren't being understood as if i'm trying to excuse or feel sorry for the abuse dealt out by pwBPD. oh contrary! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). so, i should just say that in my case, just for me, funk no do i think my xBPDgf is 'happier' than me. i've been out for a long time now and i have enough evidence to see what's happened to her. repeatedly people describe her as toxic, and she keeps faking it all along and still can for all i care--but i'd take my pain any day than the fake BS she's putting out there. But that's just me. Buuuuut, yeah, initially during the breakup (which I initiated)--this was the most challenging emotional time of my life. I don't want to minimize this in the least and it's still something I'm working through--but for me I see a light at the end of the tunnel where I only see her hitting a brick wall when her looks run out, or when she makes the mistake of messing with some guy who isn't as decent as I or many of her other ex's are and he takes her down to rock bottom.

go read some other boards where pwBPD talk about how they feel pretty much all the time, it's horrible. they feel so horrible that they feel they have to lie just to try and be normal... .

And what would I find there?... .

4815162342, what i've found reading these other boards is that when they talk amongst themselves it's a humongous pity party (much like ours!), the difference being that they almost don't talk at all about the affects of their behavior on nons. we spend *lots* of time psychoanalyzing them, trying to understand ourselves and the situation as a whole. they don't really seem to care about anybody or anything but the horrible way that they personally feel--but this is no surprise, right? we already knew this. But also it's shown me that pwBPD *do* know often times what they do is wrong (why else would they have to lie about things if not?), they do know they hurt people and at least many that are on these boards (b/c they've been diagnosed I'm assuming) are well aware of many of their lies, manipulations and rages. but it's *rare* for them to speak about the affect any of this has on nons; only how crappy it makes them feel.   and how they hate doing it, and they hate themselves for behaving this way but that they don't know how to stop   not my kind of party

again, i'm not trying to excuse anything here, i'm just tellin it like i see it
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bpdspell
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« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2013, 09:09:50 PM »

@goldlamont

I think your posts are thoughtfully insightful and genuine.

... .and yes our exs truly hate themselves on a consistent basis... .they're just Academy Award level actors when it comes to wearing the mask of normalcy. But I've been out long enough to hear the true thoughts and feelings of what people really feel about my ex and they all have experienced him as toxic.

They are emotionally stunted trapped petulant children in adult bodies... .so true lasting and sustainable happiness will always elude them. BPD is no picnic or Sunday stroll in the park... .Without intensive help they will be mentally sick for a lifetime.

Spell

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maxen
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« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2013, 10:18:51 PM »

i'd love to (and have meant to) start a different thread on this.

i look forward to it!
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Changingman
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« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2013, 04:23:34 AM »

there's a divide on this thread (and on this site)... .

... .but the persistent attempts to detour those of us who have been eviscerated by the actions of our BPs into attention to the self and only to the self has two unhappy consequences and one faulty presumption. the unhappy consequences are that our violation is demeaned and their actions are exculpated (by removing them from a moral calculus, and there is always a moral calculus). the faulty presumption is that we (nons) have more or less the same emotional capacities and will benefit in the same way from the same protocol. a specific kind of happiness comes out of a (good) relationship that does not come from any other source.

i.imgur.com/CWFTYoV.png

maxen, first of all -- that pic is hilarious! thanks for sharing I've totally felt this way sometimes and i appreciate the humor Smiling (click to insert in post)

secondly, maxen i completely agree with you about how there is a divide--or perhaps easier to say there is a spectrum to nons just as there is a spectrum to high vs. low functioning pwBPD. from my experience here i've felt the need to defend myself when just because i don't consider myself to be a codependent and i don't think i have major childhood issues which attract pwBPD to me like bees to honey. for me, it's kind of just something that happened (although there are def some reasons of my own), and it's just a learning experience. personally i feel like i'm learning more about the world at large than i am learning about some personal faults of my own... .but this seems different from many other's experiences. i'd love to (and have meant to) start a different thread on this.

that being said, i'm hoping my posts aren't being understood as if i'm trying to excuse or feel sorry for the abuse dealt out by pwBPD. oh contrary! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). so, i should just say that in my case, just for me, funk no do i think my xBPDgf is 'happier' than me. i've been out for a long time now and i have enough evidence to see what's happened to her. repeatedly people describe her as toxic, and she keeps faking it all along and still can for all i care--but i'd take my pain any day than the fake BS she's putting out there. But that's just me. Buuuuut, yeah, initially during the breakup (which I initiated)--this was the most challenging emotional time of my life. I don't want to minimize this in the least and it's still something I'm working through--but for me I see a light at the end of the tunnel where I only see her hitting a brick wall when her looks run out, or when she makes the mistake of messing with some guy who isn't as decent as I or many of her other ex's are and he takes her down to rock bottom.

go read some other boards where pwBPD talk about how they feel pretty much all the time, it's horrible. they feel so horrible that they feel they have to lie just to try and be normal... .

And what would I find there?... .

4815162342, what i've found reading these other boards is that when they talk amongst themselves it's a humongous pity party (much like ours!), the difference being that they almost don't talk at all about the affects of their behavior on nons. we spend *lots* of time psychoanalyzing them, trying to understand ourselves and the situation as a whole. they don't really seem to care about anybody or anything but the horrible way that they personally feel--but this is no surprise, right? we already knew this. But also it's shown me that pwBPD *do* know often times what they do is wrong (why else would they have to lie about things if not?), they do know they hurt people and at least many that are on these boards (b/c they've been diagnosed I'm assuming) are well aware of many of their lies, manipulations and rages. but it's *rare* for them to speak about the affect any of this has on nons; only how crappy it makes them feel.   and how they hate doing it, and they hate themselves for behaving this way but that they don't know how to stop   not my kind of party

again, i'm not trying to excuse anything here, i'm just tellin it like i see it

Yes to all this,

I guess the fact we were caregivers is the point. Are we to blame for the RS? No.

Did we become Eva Braun to their hitler? No, but we should have got out quicker. Are there any other BPDs in our life? In my case yes. Glad I know now, seen behind the curtain.

We're not in Kansas anymore

And never will be again
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damage control
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« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2013, 04:26:56 AM »

I agree Maxen (and P+C)

For some of us, needing to understand what happened and process how we are going to deal with and move on from it means being able to acknowledge the damage, have it validated and then hold it up to the light to see what we found so fascinating about it in the first place ... .how we were so fooled.

I have had tough relationships, hitty breakups etc ... but I have never experienced anything like this before and no amount of claiming the self is going to help with that - thing is, I have changed - being dropped on my head from the top of a cliff has changed me. And I need to know what that means, and who I am now ... and part of that is means demanding (even if it's just here, or inside my head) that my hurt be allowed to manifest as I see fit.

I don't know what that means - and that is probably because it means different things at different times/days ... I know that some people are much better at drawing a boundary and saying 'no more'! than others ... (although we all seem to struggle a bit with this) ... and as much as I would love to do that, I can't ... but I am trying to learn ...
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Changingman
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« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2013, 04:58:42 AM »

Yes maxan

To be 'happy' like them would mean... .skipping between insanity and deep distress.

I like being me, feeling real feelings. Happy? Kiss my ___*

an alien has taken out the real person and replaced them with a distortion, like a human but through a dark broken mirror.

( this is metaphorical )

Are they happy! Ha ha

To ask such a question is madness

Good luck everyone

You have now left

The twilight zone
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bewildered2
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2 months good stuff, then it was all downhill


« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2013, 06:10:07 AM »

they seem happier because they are good at acting. and they are good at lying... .to others and to themselves.

and because they are always looking for something to make themselves feel good at that moment in time... .it could be alcohol or drugs or self harm or promiscuity... .and so while they are using their tonic of choice they look happy... .and they are... .until the drug wears off and they are left with the reality of who they are and what they do to other people... .not a pretty picture... .so they go out and start all over again.

they are chronically and deeply unhappy... .and so desperate to make that emotional pain go away... .anyway they can.

do not envy someopne with BPD. they are in a bad place, fundamentally. the booze/drugs/self harm/promiscuity are just bandaids that need to be constantly changed.

just read the books about this disorder, e.g. "i hate you dont leave me", and you will see that they are unhappy, despite the happy mask that they wear for everybody to see. there is a reason why 8-10% of these poor folks kill themselves... .

you will get better in time. they will only get better with a lot of hard work and therapy.   

who would you rather be?

the grass isnt always greener!

b2
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Numbers
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« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2013, 06:45:22 AM »

Numbers... .What's stopping you? I did that... Partying,women,having some wild times... .Go ahead... It might just be the release you need. Meet other people... Make new memories. It helps... .to heck with her.

Wow, I was really negative yesterday, need to cut down on booze Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

What is stopping me is that this time something got truly broken. In between all previous recycles I went out, traveled, worked out, even dated. Now... .I am even evading my readily available (girl)friend with benefits. Actually, as time goes by, I go out less and less. After getting so horribly rejected, I just cannot play the usual social game of trial and error - go through rejections till you score. I truly hope that too shall pass, I most definitely do not want to be/stay this way.

One thing I might have not been clear on - when I argue that she is happier, I am not talking about relationships. To the best of my knowledge, i was not immediately replaced. She flirts all the time, but in order for her to commit, target needs to pass an ungodly amount of tests. Trust me, I know  Smiling (click to insert in post). But once someone passes, no, she will not be happier.

What I am saying is that she is currently without doubt living a very rich, social and successful life out of relationship and I envy her for that.
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Changingman
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« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2013, 07:11:05 AM »

NO booze, no drugs. Maybe no sex for a while

Escape into fantasy has maybe run a bit dry for you

Give your body a chance.

mental health needs some care after being with a BPD.

We have been living in an asylum, it's odd out here.

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