LOVE/HATE/DESTROY

[arn131arn]

Is this the normal pattern for a relationship with a BPD SO?

I'm new to the website.  I know my ex of 14 years has found a replacement (took 2 weeks), but the truth is, he has probably been around foe a while.  

Just want to know if this is the common theme in relationships.  I know it's not right, and all of the feelings seem so raw and hurtful right now, but I just can't help NOT hoping that she is like this in every other relationship for the rest of her life.

I can totally see her love bombing this poor soul until he asks her to marry him.  Then that's when the gloves and mask comes off... .I don't know.  

Still very upset/angry, and I hope she lives in misery for the rest of her life.  

Sad but true

[Narina]

I'd say that sounds like what I have experienced. It began two days after the wedding that the gloves came off. I was floored. I didn't know where this was coming from.  I don't have 14 years in, but near 5. I know it's hard to imagine they replace so easily. Although, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think they really replace, but take a placebo. They hate to be alone. From what I've witnessed, they still remember and long for what they have destroyed. The problem is to have it, they would have to admit they have a problem and work hard to get better.  If yours is cycling, then I doubt any learning or growth is going on. Hang in there. You are not alone! 

Just to be clear, I didn't say a non is perfect and we didn't impact them in some way,but yes, I can't jump in two weeks either, so I know darn well what you mean.

[heartandwhole]

Hi arn131arn,

Each relationship with a pwBPD is unique, as each person with BPD and his/her partner is unique.  That said, you know from reading the boards that there are patterns that seem to appear frequently!

Have you seen this? How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves

What do you think?

heart

[Ironmanrises]

Yes. LOVE/Idealize to HATE/Devalue to DESTROY/Discard. Same pattern, presented in different flavors and colors; but with the same ___ awful consistency.

[arn131arn]

Hi arn131arn,

Each relationship with a pwBPD is unique, as each person with BPD and his/her partner is unique.  That said, you know from reading the boards that there are patterns that seem to appear frequently!

Have you seen this? How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves

What do you think?

heart

Thanks for the read, Heart.

The one that struck me the most was in the hate stage where she would ask "why are you looking at me that way."  I could never understand that one and I never will.  I guess it was a look of complete and total amazement.  How she could be that out of reality wehre I was flaberghasted.

[fromheeltoheal]

The one that struck me the most was in the hate stage where she would ask "why are you looking at me that way."  I could never understand that one and I never will.  I guess it was a look of complete and total amazement.  How she could be that out of reality wehre I was flaberghasted.

That article H&W recommended is very good and helped me a lot.  Maybe to reiterate, a borderline sufferer sees the world in black and white, there is no gray, so you are either perfect or complete scum; they don't have the ability to perceive an integrated human who is a combination of good and bad traits, which is everyone.  So when you're good you're great, when you're bad you're complete trash.  Also, once triggered a borderline needs a scapegoat, and you're it; all of her self loathing gets projected on you to allow her to feel better, so you get to be loathed too.  Interesting in that a borderline never successfully detached from their primary caregiver, so in their subconscious head you are one person with no boundary, not two autonomous individuals, so she's really just pushing her bad to the other side of herself, which is you.

The look thing is unique too.  I used to catch my borderline staring at me with a royally shtty look on her face for no reason that was apparent to me, I thought we were having a good time.  There was also an intensity to the staring that was full-on creepy.  Later I learned that the core of the disorder is fear of abandonment, and when we 'relax' into a relationship, which is what normal people do when they get comfortably attached to someone, in a borderline's head you've already left, because you're not scampering around intensely focused on her and her needs anymore, like you might have been when the relationship was new.  As that article says, there's a lack of trust both ways at the end of a relationship, actually I never fully trusted mine, but that hypersensitivity to facial expressions is borne out of someone who doesn't trust us and is absolutely convinced we're about to leave.  No amount of convincing or proving will help at that point, too far down the rabbit hole of the disorder.

It's impossible, be happy we're out, time for an upgrade.  Take care of you!

[arn131arn]

Thanks, heal.

It's been just shy of a week with no contact.  She has already called my mother which is hilarious.  She has hated my mom for years.  Even witheld my son from seeing his grandmother for over 8 months. 

She has a replacement, and she wants me to go over x mas morning to watch our son open gifts from Santa.  This is all sick and, I could be wrong, but benefits her.  She can fill some disordered need of having my son open ALL his x mas gifts in her environment. 

Doesn't matter to me and prob not a big deal to my son bc he can get the presents santa left for him at noon when I see him... .It's just wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.

[Tincanmike]

I came across an old text message my wife sent me that was very telling in retrospect.  She basically asked, "Why do I love you so much and then hate you so much. What's wrong with me?".  Reading that now, I know.  She loved me for what I did for her and meant to her, and yet she hated me for being more "stable" than her.  She hated me for where I came from, for my college education, for my work ethic, for my likability, for my skills as a musician.  She knew she loved me, but she had to hate me.  I made my mistakes and could have been more attentive to her needs, but her needs were above and beyond what I thought an average husband could or should provide.  I told her, on more than one occasion (before I knew about BPD) that she probably couldn't ever find a guy that would meet all her needs.  In four months, she's on her third "boyfriend" since we separated. Guess the grass isn't always greener. It just plain wears me out thinking about it.

[Mutt]

I can totally see her love bombing this poor soul until he asks her to marry him.  Then that's when the gloves and mask comes off... .I don't know.  

It's the chase that the're into. They feel intensely. The high from endorphins from the honeymoon period. Once that wears off they think that there's something wrong in the relationship.

I have no idea why my ex wanted to get married when it's game over once that you do. Obviously she's not conscious of that. I think after a year and half she wanted to get married and I kep saying wait. Every 3 months the subject would come up again.

The only reason why I think that she wanted to get married because that day was about her. All of the attention and focus. Man did things go from bad to worse after we got married.

They may or may not arn131arn. I'm struggling with trying not to fortune tell, more so with litigation. I can't say that I try to figure out what's going to happen with my replacement and my ex.

I do know this. She doesn't get help and the whole thing will blow up sooner or later. I don't want to be the one that re-engages when that happens.

[myself]

There comes a time when the pwBPD clearly sees that the other person in the relationship is only human. That they make mistakes, have pains, and feel unsure. They have problems, too, just like the pwBPD, so they can not be depended on. The idealization shatters, and the broken mirrors inside broken mirrors can't be faced. This takes the feelings of love into feelings of resentment, which leads to destruction.

[DragoN]

Man did things go from bad to worse after we got married.

I thought the marriage would calm him down, made it worse. His insecurities were out of control. Just got worse from day 1. He wanted the big wedding parties, not one but two. Was such a waste of money and both ended with him drunk and abusive. What a nightmare.

There comes a time when the pwBPD clearly sees that the other person in the relationship is only human.

And then hate you for it.

No matter how hard you try to work at the marriage, it is destined for failure. Either they leave, or the non finally gives up.

I can totally see her love bombing this poor soul until he asks her to marry him.  Then that's when the gloves and mask comes off... .I don't know. 

Probably why so many marry so quickly? idk. Mine asked me to marry within 3 months. That's insane. You don't know anything about a person in 3 months. The first long term separation, I found out within 3 months he had another "love of his life." So... .9/10 , same thing will repeat.

You can heal, they will not. It hurts.

[necchi]

Mine had a 2 years idolizing period till I moved in then told her me and my kids were moving out(1 month after moving in), then the real Hyde came out! Gave custody to my kids mom (not exBPD) and lived in my van for 2weeks before going to therapy (this was a salvation for me, all I could think of was to hang myself but couldn't afford the price of 4' of rope! Lol) but damn! She reach out to me were I was, played the care giver... .After therapy,I moved alone and she never gave up,... just so obsessed with me. Got my life back together, my son came back living with me, ( forgot to mentioned that in that time she got pregnant(me),tried to stay far from her(mind you that she did the "I'm pregnant " before )but Couldn't let this kitten be without a great father,it was literally killing me)got out of the past abuses fog and realized I had her under my skin (stupid me DOH!)then it went... .they know their $hit, believe me, they... .

[DragoN]

... .they know their $hit, believe me, they... .

They know, and they are lower on the food chain as a result in most regards pretty soon. Depression and self medication , either drugs, booze whatever it is to dull the pain. No long term friends. False face because underneath there is what? A void.

Some are truly disgusting in their actions and others less so. I pity them in many regards and am ever so grateful I don't have to run around in the head of one... .

[necchi]

I truly believe they should of kept going with the witches and sorcerer staff burning gigs ! 

[DragoN]

I'd settle for identifying tattoos on the forehead. Wrist? Something like that. Burning staff shoved up... .never mind. Twisted humor. Egh.

Feel sorry for the people that have children with them, must be hellish to deal with that on top.

[Changingman]

Is this the normal pattern for a relationship with a BPD SO?

I'm new to the website.  I know my ex of 14 years has found a replacement (took 2 weeks), but the truth is, he has probably been around foe a while.  

Just want to know if this is the common theme in relationships.  I know it's not right, and all of the feelings seem so raw and hurtful right now, but I just can't help NOT hoping that she is like this in every other relationship for the rest of her life.

I can totally see her love bombing this poor soul until he asks her to marry him.  Then that's when the gloves and mask comes off... .I don't know.  

Still very upset/angry, and I hope she lives in misery for the rest of her life.  

Sad but true

This question:

Will they live this miserable life forever/will she be different with the new partner?

It took me a while to receive the obvious after the chaos confusion and fog.

1. She had standbys in the background ALWAYS. They know what they Re doing and know with absolute certainty you will abandon them it some point. They think they are bad/evil people and they are right. They destroy/hurt everything they touch and will do nothing to change it but blame, manipulate and eventually torture.

If you loved them more, you moved closer to the black hole inside them, scary for them you might see the emptyness they feel.

2. Their acting out is either that they are just the worst broken harmful people, filth, aliens like the evil people in movies.

OR

It's you who MAKE them do this filth. Really?


3. They have no empathy, therefore cannot experience *love*. Perhaps natures most beautiful creations.

People are things, objects, walking shells rattling around them. One the same as the other? All interchangeable. They really love their new partner... .you've seen their love up close, it's worth s***.

4. They will not change so the same things will happen endlessly but with diminishing returns, so they must take more validation/self medications to achieve the same high. The new partner has a real name, it used to be your name... .VICTIM.

Hopefully you will choose your own name now you have got away from this manipulative creature.

5. They do what they do to everything/everyone, they break everything degrade everything hurt everything and claim they are the victim. Now that is a magic trick only the Sociapath/psychopath can perform.

As hideous as this ending is... .it is a blessing. Heal yourself. When you fill up again you will be stronger, different.

[TakingWingAtLast]

Is this the normal pattern for a relationship with a BPD SO?

I'm new to the website.  I know my ex of 14 years has found a replacement (took 2 weeks), but the truth is, he has probably been around foe a while.  

Just want to know if this is the common theme in relationships.  I know it's not right, and all of the feelings seem so raw and hurtful right now, but I just can't help NOT hoping that she is like this in every other relationship for the rest of her life.

I can totally see her love bombing this poor soul until he asks her to marry him.  Then that's when the gloves and mask comes off... .I don't know.  

Still very upset/angry, and I hope she lives in misery for the rest of her life.  

Sad but true

Arn

I detest my expwBPDgf.  I have to see her.  Play tennis with her.  And be civil.   I hate her fake smile that everyone thinks is so cute.   I want to slap that smile right off.

  I hate that she destroyed my relationship with her daughter who I've known from 5 years to 13 years and who I miss.  I hate that I'm not there to protect her daughter from her like I did for her son for 8 years. 

I hate that she outed me as bisexual cheater at a party with our tennis friends. 

I hate that I feel anything at all for her most of all.  That my first thought every time I wake up is about her.   

And I want to tell her or show her how much I hate her.   Especially when she texts, "I'm so happy!   I hope you're happy too!:)".  I especially hate the emoticons that accompany such texts. 

I may be admitted to the hospital today for an upper GI bleed.  And I hate, HATE that I don't have an emergency contact person to list. 

Arn, I am with you.   So I made this song up just for you. 

Sung to Row Row Row Your Boat

I hate B-P-D

And what it's done to me.

I hate the fake and the discarding

I'll hate her 'til I'm free

[arn131arn]

you r the s**t, wing.  i love the song, written it down, and will humm it to myself when i see her x mas day.  how long have you been broken up?  was there a replacement with you as well?

[TakingWingAtLast]

8 years together.   She threw me out abruptly on Nov. 9. Got on Match.com Nov.  10.  She tells me via texts about all the great men she's dating and how much better they are than me.  Actually, all those texts make me see her better which is why I allow them.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'd settle for identifying tattoos on the forehead. Wrist? Something like that. Burning staff shoved up... .never mind. Twisted humor. Egh.

Feel sorry for the people that have children with them, must be hellish to deal with that on top.

She became totally transparent to me at the end; her games had zero impact on me anymore, and all I saw was the pathetic flailings of a very unhappy person, trying best she could to keep from imploding, and it wasn't working.  Very sad in that this creature looked just like the woman I feel in love with, but the fact that who I thought she was is a complete fantasy is in turns sad, depressing, sobering, shocking, freeing.

Don't know about you guys but I am so finely tuned to the dysfunction now that anyone exhibiting traits glows bright red to me.  I've reconnected with a couple of gals I've known for years, and looked at them in an entirely different light; not playing amateur shrink and diagnosing, but whether or not they have a personality disorder takes a back seat to the fact they behaved in ways that are unacceptable to me, something I wouldn't have noticed or set limits on prior to BPD hell.  I consider that growth.

Of course there are plenty of folks who haven't had the 'experience' yet.  I believe everything happens for a reason, and maybe people with personality disorders come into our lives at a time when we have lessons to learn, and what better way than extreme psychic pain to motivate us to get off our ass and grow to that next level; it doesn't look like a teacher when it shows up, but it sure turned out to be a hell of one, yes?

[Mutt]

Don't know about you guys but I am so finely tuned to the dysfunction now that anyone exhibiting traits glows bright red to me.  I've reconnected with a couple of gals I've known for years, and looked at them in an entirely different light; not playing amateur shrink and diagnosing, but whether or not they have a personality disorder takes a back seat to the fact they behaved in ways that are unacceptable to me, something I wouldn't have noticed or set limits on prior to BPD hell.  I consider that growth.

I hear sympathy, I press the eject button right away. PD or not, I simply don't to want to be near that person, I don't have to be an armchair psychiatrist either.

It sounds like you've set boundaries. I didn't have any before and it's something that I do now and work on, thanks to the ex.

[fromheeltoheal]

I hear sympathy, I press the eject button right away. PD or not, I simply don't to want to be near that person, I don't have to be an armchair psychiatrist either.

It sounds like you've set boundaries. I didn't have any before and it's something that I do now and work on, thanks to the ex.

Yep, and having never focused on boundaries before, just treated people the way I want to be treated and not really critical of what I'm getting back, it's a big step for me, and in fact that's the biggest gift I got from my time in borderline hell.

So someone expressing sympathy is a problem for you?  Is that because you see it as the first step in attachment and boundary-busting?

[Mutt]

Yep, and having never focused on boundaries before, just treated people the way I want to be treated and not really critical of what I'm getting back, it's a big step for me, and in fact that's the biggest gift I got from my time in borderline hell.

So someone expressing sympathy is a problem for you?  Is that because you see it as the first step in attachment and boundary-busting?

That phrase didn't come out right.

Someone saying something that garnishes them sympathy, like my ex "my daughter's dad abused me"

A couple of months ago I met a stranger and the first thing that came out of her mouth was "my bf f#cked me last night and stole my TV, X-box and money!" I was having a smoke outside of my work, it's in the downtown core. Now why the hell are you telling me this? What popped into my head was "this person is bad news"

Yes, if I meet someone and I get something like that, see you later! F*ck off!

Like I said PD or no PD, I've gone down the rabbit hole before and no more. It's an insidious path that didn't happen overnight. For me it took months and years until it was full-blown hell. My self-esteem and b$lls were slowly being grinded down over a long period of time. Speaking of no PD, it's my core values. They don't match with my ex. Lying, cheating and having affairs is not something that I share with her. I don't have the same basic values as her and there are woman out there that have morals and ethics.There are woman out there that are healthy and aren't going to say some non-sense like that in the beggining to potentially trap you.

Don't care. Don't have time for it anymore.

[fromheeltoheal]

Someone saying something that garnishes them sympathy, like my ex "my daughter's dad abused me"

A couple of months ago I met a stranger and the first thing that came out of her mouth was "my bf f#cked me last night and stole my TV, X-box and money!" I was having a smoke outside of my work, it's in the downtown core. Now why the hell are you telling me this? What popped into my head was "this person is bad news"

Yes, if I meet someone and I get something like that, see you later! F*ck off!

I've been learning a lot lately about vulnerability, and how when we express vulnerability we consider it weakness, but when someone else expresses it we consider it courageous.  And how true intimacy is only possible when both people feel safe being vulnerable with each other.

What you reminded me of is the ways, many ways, that people avoid being vulnerable.  One way is to overshare and blurt out whatever right off the bat, before it's appropriate in a given situation; that shocks people and creates distance, not intimacy, and is a popular vulnerability avoidance tool.  If someone blurted out what you heard I would be put off too, too much information, too soon.  Of course if she considered it an emergency then she should be telling a cop, not some random stranger.  There are lots of lonely people in the world, and sometimes they overshare because what they have kept inside for too long is busting out, that's obvious and can be dealt with, but someone letting loose with intense personal stuff too early because they don't know better or they're deflecting is a different thing.

I was just thinking how my borderline was an expert at appearing to be vulnerable, with gave me permission to reciprocate, which I did, but if you listened closely she wasn't really divulging much, and there was a marked lack of awareness.  Note to self: stay present and notice what's really going on, real relationships take time and grow in stages, something that seems too good to be true probably is.

[TakingWingAtLast]

I've been learning a lot lately about vulnerability, and how when we express vulnerability we consider it weakness, but when someone else expresses it we consider it courageous.  And how true intimacy is only possible when both people feel safe being vulnerable with each other.

What you reminded me of is the ways, many ways, that people avoid being vulnerable.  One way is to overshare and blurt out whatever right off the bat, before it's appropriate in a given situation; that shocks people and creates distance, not intimacy, and is a popular vulnerability avoidance tool.  If someone blurted out what you heard I would be put off too, too much information, too soon.  Of course if she considered it an emergency then she should be telling a cop, not some random stranger.  There are lots of lonely people in the world, and sometimes they overshare because what they have kept inside for too long is busting out, that's obvious and can be dealt with, but someone letting loose with intense personal stuff too early because they don't know better or they're deflecting is a different thing.

I was just thinking how my borderline was an expert at appearing to be vulnerable, with gave me permission to reciprocate, which I did, but if you listened closely she wasn't really divulging much, and there was a marked lack of awareness.  Note to self: stay present and notice what's really going on, real relationships take time and grow in stages, something that seems too good to be true probably is.

Good note to self!   And I share your understanding of the faux vulnerability of the pwBPD.   

Too good to be true rings VERY true to me too. 

[Mutt]

Someone saying something that garnishes them sympathy, like my ex "my daughter's dad abused me"

A couple of months ago I met a stranger and the first thing that came out of her mouth was "my bf f#cked me last night and stole my TV, X-box and money!" I was having a smoke outside of my work, it's in the downtown core. Now why the hell are you telling me this? What popped into my head was "this person is bad news"

Yes, if I meet someone and I get something like that, see you later! F*ck off!

I've been learning a lot lately about vulnerability, and how when we express vulnerability we consider it weakness, but when someone else expresses it we consider it courageous.  And how true intimacy is only possible when both people feel safe being vulnerable with each other.

What you reminded me of is the ways, many ways, that people avoid being vulnerable.  One way is to overshare and blurt out whatever right off the bat, before it's appropriate in a given situation; that shocks people and creates distance, not intimacy, and is a popular vulnerability avoidance tool.  If someone blurted out what you heard I would be put off too, too much information, too soon.  Of course if she considered it an emergency then she should be telling a cop, not some random stranger.  There are lots of lonely people in the world, and sometimes they overshare because what they have kept inside for too long is busting out, that's obvious and can be dealt with, but someone letting loose with intense personal stuff too early because they don't know better or they're deflecting is a different thing.

I was just thinking how my borderline was an expert at appearing to be vulnerable, with gave me permission to reciprocate, which I did, but if you listened closely she wasn't really divulging much, and there was a marked lack of awareness.  Note to self: stay present and notice what's really going on, real relationships take time and grow in stages, something that seems too good to be true probably is.

My ex was not that our right blatant. But she did share a lot about her ex's too fast too soon. Especially about her ex's. But that encounter with that woman (she wanted a light for her cigarette) set-off an automatic behavior due to my past experience. I may of listened to her story much longer in the past and felt sympathy for her.

[ucmeicu2]

Someone saying something that garnishes them sympathy <cut>A couple of months ago I met a stranger and the first thing that came out of her mouth was "my bf f#cked me last night and stole my TV, X-box and money!" I was having a smoke outside of my work, it's in the downtown core. Now why the hell are you telling me this? What popped into my head was "this person is bad news"

Yes, if I meet someone and I get something like that, see you later! F*ck off!

hey mutt i love your healthy (and humorous) response.  that's an excellent example ~ i've seen people say that pwBPD "trap" them or like use some kind of special radar to hunt Non's down. 

i believe truth is more of a pwBPD is like a spider in a web.  spider builds the fancy web, then just sits there and waits.  we see the web, go in and get stuck ~ spidey didn't grab us and pull us in.  pwBPD just acts their crazy way they act, full of drama, chaos, and sympathy-garnering.  THAT is where a healthier person says 'see ya later' and a less healthy person might look around while saying "hmmm whats in here" and i guess a really unhealthy person might say "yahoo, another spider web!" while they're jumping in.

[Mutt]

hey mutt i love your healthy (and humorous) response.  that's an excellent example ~ i've seen people say that pwBPD "trap" them or like use some kind of special radar to hunt Non's down.  

Thanks ucmeicu2!

TBH she wasn't attractive.

Old Mutt would of dove into that spider-web head first.

[DragoN]

After PD hell and knowing what the spider webs look like, you can gather them up, weave a rope and hang a PD in it if one should so choose. Horrible of me, I know, but " Mercy is for me. " I have unilaterally decided that I will grant mercy to myself.

Pretty certain I have a pwBPD convinced I am a psychopath, he may even be right after all the years of PD chaos. I am almost feeling sorry, but not really

I've been learning a lot lately about vulnerability, and how when we express vulnerability we consider it weakness, but when someone else expresses it we consider it courageous.  And how true intimacy is only possible when both people feel safe being vulnerable with each other.

He found my online posts and was using that information. And a few other little magicians tricks.