I know that this has NOTHING to do with my son

[arn131arn]

Well, she broke contact AGAIN by way of my/her family memebrs.

She had been wanting me to go over to her father's house to open x mas gifts from santa.  Well, I wake up this morning to 3 missed calls from her dad and found out she had called my sister in a panic that my son wasn't going to have AAAALLLLLLL the gifts from Santa when he woke up.

Because of this board I have been able to notice her true colors and I know that this has NOTHING to do with my son.  I know it has everything to do with her feeling of being unfit because maybe she couldn't get him everything she thought he wanted.

Anyway, I am in a bind over this and really don't want to go over there tomorrow.  Maybe she is fearful that I won't let my son take his gifts from santa home with him?  They belong to him and he can take them to the moon if he wants!  I am not going to be like that.

She told my sister that she would just go out and by him the x mas gifts that I already got him.  Whatever, I am over it already.  I see her impulsive behavior and need to have everything she wants by making me feel guilty with my son... .obligated and fearful she won't show up at my sister's at noon because I didn't go over there earlier... .I have never hated anyone in my life more than her

Suggestions?  Anyone... .? thank you

[Moonie75]

In many if your posts there seems to be a lot of her going to your family members houses (under the guise of Christmas). Long talk with your mum & generally too much interaction between her & your family!

This is unhealthy, unhelpful & will only stir the fog!

I hope you don't take offence at this Arn but you need to get a grip of this either with a stern word with her or a stern word with your family members.

How on earth is squabbling over children opening presents helping you, her, and most importantly the child in the middle?

Not wanting to cause upset but sounds draining for all, especially your child.

[arn131arn]

Thanks, Moonie.  You are right, it isn't helping my child.  I thought we had plans to meet at my sister's at noon.  We were together for 14 years, there is relationships there and I think everyone would like to be amicable.

So you are right a stern word to her and my family is in order.  I just don't know what to do about tomorrow.

Fear-  if I don't do it then she doesn't being him to my sister's house (which is my MAIN concern)

Obligated- because he is my son

Guilty- That if I don't do it, it is wrong for my child

Get where I'm going with this?

[arn131arn]

Well, I feel better. 

I had my first attempt at setting boundries.

I talked to her father and explained to him that I no longer want to have contact with his daughter.  I want to speak to him and she can speak to my mom about my son.  I only want to hear from her if there is an emergency that has to do with my son. 

He tried to enable her by saying that it was all about x mas and this is something that we did every year (GUILT).  I wasn't having that, I told him that my son can open his gifts with my family and he is more than willing to take them with him.

We made arrangements to meet after the holidays to iron out the visitation arrangements. 

I feel better.  I feel a little better today.  I feel like I am starting to get, not the power back, because I think that would want to open up something for the future, but my balls maybe?  Yeah, that's it, I got my balls back, and they dropped a half inch today.

[Mutt]

In many if your posts there seems to be a lot of her going to your family members houses (under the guise of Christmas). Long talk with your mum & generally too much interaction between her & your family!

This is unhealthy, unhelpful & will only stir the fog!

I hope you don't take offence at this Arn but you need to get a grip of this either with a stern word with her or a stern word with your family members.

How on earth is squabbling over children opening presents helping you, her, and most importantly the child in the middle?

Not wanting to cause upset but sounds draining for all, especially your child.

It sounds like a couple of different things and I agree with Moonie75.

She's trying to control you by proxy and boundary busting.

She will continuously try to bust your boundaries and test them. It's up to you to defend those boundaries. I suggest that you don't bend on your boundaries and defend them with your life.

[arn131arn]

Thanks, Mutt. 

I set some boundries for the 1st time today.

I FEEL LIKE I WON THE OLYMPICS!

[Perfidy]

Arn... Holiday greetings to you! Getting a pwBPD to listen to you is a lesson in futility. All your words are water off a duck. Your motives... .Look closely at them. Your son, he is the only thing that should matter here. He is the one that has little autonomous interaction in your relationship between the three of you. His presence in your life and in her life must be spelled out clearly. For him. It will be nothing but game playing and fueling hard feelings until you have a formal agreement in writing that has been signed by a judge. If you have a legal right here you can create this yourself. A temporary custody order will end all game playing. I did this when I divorced my wife. Immediately after we split. Then I filed the rest of the divorce papers. I took care of my kids first. The rest all fell into place. If you really want to win in this you can. Go file for custody of your son. Whoever files for temporary custody first will get it. Work out the details then file permanent custody papers with appropriate visitation. The courts know how these things go. Judges are usually intelligent thoughtful people. This kind of situation that you describe is exactly why the courts exist. I know how hard this is. File that temporary order. You will be so relieved. I was. I did this. It will work for you too. Good luck and happy holidays.

[arn131arn]

Arn... Holiday greetings to you! Getting a pwBPD to listen to you is a lesson in futility. All your words are water off a duck. Your motives... .Look closely at them. Your son, he is the only thing that should matter here. He is the one that has little autonomous interaction in your relationship between the three of you. His presence in your life and in her life must be spelled out clearly. For him. It will be nothing but game playing and fueling hard feelings until you have a formal agreement in writing that has been signed by a judge. If you have a legal right here you can create this yourself. A temporary custody order will end all game playing. I did this when I divorced my wife. Immediately after we split. Then I filed the rest of the divorce papers. I took care of my kids first. The rest all fell into place. If you really want to win in this you can. Go file for custody of your son. Whoever files for temporary custody first will get it. Work out the details then file permanent custody papers with appropriate visitation. The courts know how these things go. Judges are usually intelligent thoughtful people. This kind of situation that you describe is exactly why the courts exist. I know how hard this is. File that temporary order. You will be so relieved. I was. I did this. It will work for you too. Good luck and happy holidays.

I understand that Perfidy.  Towards the end there, I acted like a maniac.  You guys on here saw the aftermath of that behavioe all last week.  I am not proud of it and own it.

She has 2 false DV verdicts in her favor, mean texts I sent her last week, coupled with me drinknig heavily this summer after she detached.  I am not inncovent, I have my part in this, as well.  But if I go in front of a judge, they have me y the balls and they know this.

FEAR

[Perfidy]

Nothing in this lifetime to fear. If you have a place for you to take care of your son a judge will give custody to whoever files first. The ex wife did the same thing to me with the bs dv stuff. Judges aren't stupid and they are reasonable. I ended up with permanent custody. My motives were pure. I was done with her.

[Mutt]

Thanks, Mutt.  

I set some boundries for the 1st time today.

I FEEL LIKE I WON THE OLYMPICS!

Good work buddy. That first step is hard. I know, I never set them in my life before. The more that you do it, the easier that it gets.

It's like playing a slot machine in vegas. If the machine is going to pay out the 21st time that you pull that lever, you'll keep pulling until the machine pays out. Set a boundary and be firm and don't cave, if you cave, then your ex will know how many times to pull that proverbial lever until it pays out.

[Skip]

arn131arn,

This might feel uncomfortable, but I will say this out of a place of caring and in the spirit of healing and bpdfamily.com... .

I know from reading is that this is your fiance' and your son and both your families are involved and that there have been some very difficult times recently - you mention domestic violence arrests and alcohol addiction on your side - I'm less clear of her issues based on your posts (it wold help to know more).  

I understand that she moved out of the house to live with her sister and that she has met with your family to say that she is moving on but wants there to be continued contact with the child.  She did this after you conatacted her family and said you were done.  Have I got that right?

1. What happened that lead to her moving out?  Was it struggles in your relationship?  How do you feel she has acted badly?  How does she feel you have acted badly?

2. What do you truly want - are you wanting to salvage the relationship (if possible)? Do you want a continued relationship with your son?  

3. Is your anger in check? No self sabotage?  You contacted her family - but when she contacted yours, you were outraged.  You say you have told her and her family you are done - but you are angry that she has stayed out late last week.  You seem to feel manipulated over Christmas and thinking of not going - but how would you feel she acted better if you were excluded?

I get it that you are mad and when a relationship like this fails its life altering it is massive stress and hurt. You hate her because she is hurting you. Hurting her back has its appeal.

We can all validate that or we can try to center you.  As a senior member here, I lean toward the latter.

A lot of thing are going to happen in the upcoming months, but tomorrow is Christmas and there is a little boy wanting normalcy and his family around him for the biggest day of his year.  

And there is an extended family unit around him that will instinctively protect him from anyone that puts their needs above his.

At lot of damage can be done with a lot of people in the next 24 hours.

Might it be best to do "what it takes" to make this a child centered, no drama Christmas?

This has everything to do with your son and your future with him.

Skippy

[Perfidy]

Anyway, I am in a bind over this and really don't want to go over there tomorrow


Your gut is telling you this. Listen to it.

[broken3]

Arn,

I don't know about you. But I relish and memorize every second when my kids open their gifts.

It makes my heart warm and proud as a man to do what I can for my children.

I would set some special time. Then allow the kids to spend their Christmas with their father.

[arn131arn]

Skip,

I appreciate your concern.  I will cave in tomorrow and go over there to deal with the whol Santa thing.  Thank you for helping me realize that.  But that doesn't mean I have to talk to her at all.

Her issues are all the BPD traits thare known to man.  She has split or threatened to about 100 times in 14 years.  This is why I think I am soo angry.  She started a smear campaign and falsely accused me of DV on three occassions. 

Triangulation with her friends and other men.  She is the oscar award winning victim.  She has a temper and when she does, she hits, slaps, throws, and verbally abuses.  Yet when I push her from a doorway or hold her arms down, i get the polic alled on me.  Call it what you want I call it BS.

This past summer she started distancing again.  Fear of her leaving again triggered me into a deeper and deeper abyss of alcohol.  A week after she graduates from nursing school, she leaves with my son.

Before Thanksgiving she calls me up... .same old song and dance.  She misses me, wants to work on it.  I knew in my gut she didn't mean it, yet I couldn't stop myself.  Two weeks ago I find out she is with another man.    No I do not want to salvage anything with this woman ever again.  She has played on my heartstrings for too long.  I know there are things I need to change and are doing the necessary things to change them

because I AM NOT A BPD, I HAVE A CONSCIOUS, AND I AM NOT CRAZY! But, yes, the past week I have acted like I have BPD! That's for sure, and I know bc I have had all the pent up anger that I would stuff down, resentment bc she DID ruin a career in nursing that I could have had... .yet, I don't know why I was drawn to her to begin with.

Trying to get the anger in check... .This has been years of this, I was outraged that sshe would call my mother.  This is a lady that she used my son against.  A lady that she hasn't let my son see in 8 months, yet, now ALL OF A SUDDEN, she needs to talk to her.  A lday that she tried to turn me against.  Sorry, after my dad died, my mother is all I have left, she already drove away all my friends... .

I am not the f******g crazy one here.  Yes, I am fed up to here with everything she has put me thru.  Is my anger in check, no, but it's gettting better. 

Please help center me then, Skip; but IF I make the decision to never speak to her again that is my choice.

I can even forgive the other guy... .Truthfully one day I will; but the character assasination and posting on FB that she thinks I am gay, is out of hand.  I will never forgive that.

I dated nothing but beautiful women all my life, some crazy... .some not... .why this F**knut has such a grip on me I will never know.

Help center me, because I think I need it

[arn131arn]

I have no idea what is real anymore.  I really don't

Other issues can be found in FOO board

[Tricky]

Arn, I well up reading your posts and feel your anger and pain. 

I've been there. Angry, and fighting for (emotional) justice and 50/50 custody.

The anger got the better of me, not helped by an addiction. And I made it difficult for her to do the right thing. I missed 2 never-to-be-returned Christmases, more importantly my son missed me being there.

Painful painful painful regrets, that haunts my psyche even now 8 years later  Can't ever live those missed magical moments of my 7 y/o son opening his gifts from Santa.

It makes my heart warm and proud as a man to do what I can for my children.

My heartfelt advice, Arn,... .go and see your son, let your mind drink in every single second of his xmas experience 2013, enjoy it, just be with him.

Swallow your anger for the day, be civil, think of your son - he's only going to live this Christmas once. You can manage it for a few hours for him. For your future memories.

I was a fool, don't make the same mistakes as me, please, please. Don't store up more pain. Don't let your justifiable anger cloud your mind on the important things and especially on your son's memories of this Christmas.

Best Christmas wishes, mate, to you and your family

[arn131arn]

I think I have been healing this past week.  I tried to set some boundries today, and they got shot down because of guilt to my son.

I really don't want to have anything to do with her anymore.  I don't want to have a friendship.  I know controlled contact is the way I want to go.  I believe I can do that.

I guess it's like Tool's 46 and 2 song.  Been picking at my scabs all day, it's reopening these wounds.  I asked her dad today why she wouldn't just tell me she was seeing someone else?  He said he had and she was "non-comittal".

I was never not going to see my son tomorrow.  I was always going to see him at noon at my sister's house.  Now I have to go to her ground and meet with her family and bring everything I bought him over there.  Bulls**t

I wouldn't have asked this question yesterday; but I feel the break in NC caused emotions to flood in and I just took three weeks backwards.

Who knows... .I surely don't

[Skip]

Help center me, because I think I need it

In hockey, the guy that lashes out goes to the penalty box... .the guy who triggered him skates on to play in a with a 5 man to 4 man advantage.

No one cares who triggered him.

She started a smear campaign and falsely accused me of DV on three occasions.  

Triangulation with her friends and other men.  She is the Oscar award winning victim.  She has a temper and when she does, she hits, slaps, throws, and verbally abuses.  Yet when I push her from a doorway or hold her arms down, i get the police called on me.

If she is good at triangulation, don't give her material to work with.

~ Stay sober or hidden

~ No more texts or email - put nothing in writing

~ Show her parents what a good and reasonable guy you are - and that you are good for their grandson - win their approval

~ Show your son you love him - kids don't want to chose between parents - and he feels you are treating his mom bad, and others are concurring - its won't end up well for you

~ Stop fighting with her and trying to revenge the hurt and betrayal - you can't win this game

~ Write this on your mirror - "I am letting go with grace".  Be bigger than her.

Right now you need strength - not anger - lots of strength.

Before you can start making this better, you must stop making it worse.

[myself]

Arn, I agree, if you go so your son can have his Christmas Morning experience, it can be time spent for him. However, he will grow up, learning that ( **spoiler alert** ) Santa isn't real, and will probably appreciate you more for being real everyday instead of setting it aside for this one. You already have plans to spend those Christmas moments with him on your own terms, not feeling pressured by her family or your FOG. Setting boundaries you believe in sounds like a step in the best direction. Caving in isn't.

There are consequences for people acting out. She will see this, you and your son will, friends and family, too. Temporarily covering it up keeps everyone from the truth. Change remains dormant. It will do more harm than good if it persists. What is best for your son is for those around him to be real. Things are different now.

Whichever way you go with this, Merry Christmas   

[arn131arn]

Help center me, because I think I need it

In hockey, the guy that lashes out goes to the penalty box... .the guy who triggered him skates on to play in a with a 5 man to 4 man advantage.

No one cares who triggered him.

She started a smear campaign and falsely accused me of DV on three occasions.  

Triangulation with her friends and other men.  She is the Oscar award winning victim.  She has a temper and when she does, she hits, slaps, throws, and verbally abuses.  Yet when I push her from a doorway or hold her arms down, i get the police called on me.

If she is good at triangulation, don't give her material to work with.

~ Stay sober or hidden

~ No more texts or email - put nothing in writing

~ Show her parents what a good and reasonable guy you are - and that you are good for their grandson - win their approval

~ Show your son you love him - kids don't want to chose between parents - and he feels you are treating his mom bad, and others are concurring - its won't end up well for you

~ Stop fighting with her and trying to revenge the hurt and betrayal - you can't win this game

~ Write this on your mirror - "I am letting go with grace".  Be bigger than her.

Right now you need strength - not anger - lots of strength.

Before you can start making this better, you must stop making it worse.

Damn Skip,

My P will start charging me Jan 10th 100 dollars an hour.  How much do I owe you for that 2 minute reading?  LOL... .You are right.  Everything you said is right. 

Can I still let go  with grace after I set fuel to the fire?

Can I still be graceful without engaging her?

Thanks... .Any ideas or sugggestions greatly appreciated