Affair w/married longtime friend w/BPD

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

That gray area was pretty painful to 5 people and not simply 2 and I heard so many excuses from her friends / family and not one of them gave any consideration to my kids and their feelings. That black / white thinking, I don't see it like that, I see it as I choose to live in this case by my "core" values and I won't be persuaded. That's one of the reasons why my ex and I didn't jive, because our core values don't align.

I think that people have misinterpreted the actual meaning of black and white thinking on this thread.

Black and white thinking is only really relevant when it's about thoughts that are intervening with the quality of one's life and cause damage to their mental health and/or to those around them. For example, someone might be a perfectionist and think that they have to get an A in a test or else they're a loser. If they get a B, they might feel inadequate. By helping a perfectionist see that a B is okay... not what they would ideally prefer but not the end of the world either, it can help improve their mental health and help them deal with disappointment in life. That's a relatively benign example.

But I'm going to take a more serious example right now. A lot of people talk about how borderlines engage in "splitting" whereby they idealize people and then devalue them. This behavior has a negative effect on the borderline herself* and on those around her and that's why it's such a major problem. (*I'm using female pronouns here for the sake of simplicity however I recognize that statistically, 25% of all borderlines are male).

In contrast, Mutt is engaging in a pro-social behavior by having a value against cheating. It doesn't have a bad effect on himself nor anyone else. No mental health professional would consider this as a harmful behavior. They would just say that it's a personal value that he has and that he has a right to make his own decisions in life.

I think it's important to use CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy) terms like "black and white thinking" in the right context and not get them confused with the concept of values/morals.

[musicfan42]

That gray area was pretty painful to 5 people and not simply 2 and I heard so many excuses from her friends / family and not one of them gave any consideration to my kids and their feelings. That black / white thinking, I don't see it like that, I see it as I choose to live in this case by my "core" values and I won't be persuaded. That's one of the reasons why my ex and I didn't jive, because our core values don't align.

I think that people have misinterpreted the actual meaning of black and white thinking on this thread.

Black and white thinking is only really relevant when it's about thoughts that are intervening with the quality of one's life and cause damage to their mental health and/or to those around them. For example, someone might be a perfectionist and think that they have to get an A in a test or else they're a loser. If they get a B, they might feel inadequate. By helping a perfectionist see that a B is okay... not what they would ideally prefer but not the end of the world either, it can help improve their mental health and help them deal with disappointment in life. That's a relatively benign example.

But I'm going to take a more serious example right now. A lot of people talk about how borderlines engage in "splitting" whereby they idealize people and then devalue them. This behavior has a negative effect on the borderline herself* and on those around her and that's why it's such a major problem. (*I'm using female pronouns here for the sake of simplicity however I recognize that statistically, 25% of all borderlines are male).

In contrast, Mutt is engaging in a pro-social behavior by having a value against cheating. It doesn't have a bad effect on himself nor anyone else. No mental health professional would consider this as a harmful behavior. They would just say that it's a personal value that he has and that he has a right to make his own decisions in life.

I think it's important to use CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy) terms like "black and white thinking" in the right context and not get them confused with the concept of values/morals.

[maxen]

I'm just tired of hearing blanket excuses to mask the fact that two people where selfish. "It wasn't meant to be" "I'm really happy now" I found true love" You know what uBPDex, your selfish.

... .

Good luck to them both after setting the foundation of their r/s on cheating and lying.

hear, hear

i said that last line in almost those words to my stbxw when i closed the door on reconciliation

[joekro]

That gray area was pretty painful to 5 people and not simply 2 and I heard so many excuses from her friends / family and not one of them gave any consideration to my kids and their feelings. That black / white thinking, I don't see it like that, I see it as I choose to live in this case by my "core" values and I won't be persuaded. That's one of the reasons why my ex and I didn't jive, because our core values don't align.

I think that people have misinterpreted the actual meaning of black and white thinking on this thread.

Black and white thinking is only really relevant when it's about thoughts that are intervening with the quality of one's life and cause damage to their mental health and/or to those around them. For example, someone might be a perfectionist and think that they have to get an A in a test or else they're a loser. If they get a B, they might feel inadequate. By helping a perfectionist see that a B is okay... not what they would ideally prefer but not the end of the world either, it can help improve their mental health and help them deal with disappointment in life. That's a relatively benign example.

But I'm going to take a more serious example right now. A lot of people talk about how borderlines engage in "splitting" whereby they idealize people and then devalue them. This behavior has a negative effect on the borderline herself* and on those around her and that's why it's such a major problem. (*I'm using female pronouns here for the sake of simplicity however I recognize that statistically, 25% of all borderlines are male).

In contrast, Mutt is engaging in a pro-social behavior by having a value against cheating. It doesn't have a bad effect on himself nor anyone else. No mental health professional would consider this as a harmful behavior. They would just say that it's a personal value that he has and that he has a right to make his own decisions in life.

I think it's important to use CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy) terms like "black and white thinking" in the right context and not get them confused with the concept of values/morals.

Very well said. Mutt was right on target.

[joekro]

Iv'e reached middle age and up to a year ago had a steadfast, ironclad rule that I lived by which was to absolutely never, ever, under no circumstance get involved with a married woman. The reason I never got married was to avoid what I did to someone else happening to me... . how screwed up is that! The rule is now back in place and it will never be broken again. I just changed my phone number so her contacting me now is moot.

What a day... .

[Mutt]

Very well said. Mutt was right on target.

Jocro, it takes guts to listen to other people that where on the other end of this and take it.

To err is human.

I take it back. I don't think that your a scumbag.

I'm here for some of the same reasons as you. I didn't listen to my intuition and ignored red flags and I made mistakes. I'm here because I want to change and grow. I think that your here for the same reasons and I can't judge you on that.

[joekro]

Mutt, something tells me that if I didn't have this strike against me, we would probably be buddies. My code vanished in the blink of an eye, but it has reemerged. Once regained, I can hopefully reconstruct who I was before all of this.

If we all lived by a code though, what the hell would we have done all day?

I'm gonna crack a beer and watch some hockey... .

[ShakinMyHead]

Good work Jacro! Welcome to L3. One day ay a time…. SMH

[joekro]

Thanks, good to be here.

[Mutt]

Mutt, something tells me that if I didn't have this strike against me, we would probably be buddies. My code vanished in the blink of an eye, but it has reemerged. Once regained, I can hopefully reconstruct who I was before all of this.

If we all lived by a code though, what the hell would we have done all day?

I'm gonna crack a beer and watch some hockey... .

Now we're speaking Canadian!    

Seriously though, no strike from me, you said that you had a moral code that you made a mistake and you can sympathize because you see what "effect" that it can have. It's a big one, but nonetheless it's just that. I don't know anything about the OM in my life, but it's different with him. He made a mistake and continues to make that mistake. I see him as a person that has low self esteem / needy , no sympathy/ empathy, no boundaries or values / morals.

She distorted to friends / family that I'm a deadbeat as a father and puts more value on him and that's painful but that's PD for you.

Whatever comes their way, they deserve it. They didn't put on the breaks. Trust is a major pillar of a r/s I think.

You thought me a lesson today, to not paint everyone with the same brush.

For that I'm grateful, thanks jocro.

[joekro]

I have a confession to make... . earlier, when I mentioned my rule to never get involved with a married woman, well it was there primarily to keep my life simple, affairs are complicated and go nowhere. As of today, its because it simply is wrong. That is what my lesson was today.

[Mutt]

I have a confession to make... . earlier, when I mentioned my rule to never get involved with a married woman, well it was there primarily to keep my life simple, affairs are complicated and go nowhere. As of today, its because it simply is wrong. That is what my lesson was today.

A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks he becomes.

- Mahatma Gandhi

[ShakinMyHead]

Jacro, on L1 there is a posting with many great insights. It is also by a Newbie RMousy- "The Other Man" in a BPD relationship. If you haven't seen it yet, it may be helpful for you. You guys have some stuff in common. Best, SMH

[joekro]

SMH, I just read the thread you mentioned and boy does that guy got it bad. I think I am at an advantage because I've known my borderline for so long that I have a different dynamic at play. It's easier for me I think because she didn't "take me away" on a wild romance until 20+ yrs after we met. I have so many fond memories of us as friends to draw from that far outweigh any recent ones. But, recycling is a definite future pitfall. If and when that time comes, I hope I'm ready.

If we can keep RMousy on board, I think he will see the light.

Take a look at what I posted on his thread. I think if he can peer through the looking glass from a different perspective than his own, clarity may occur for him.

[ShakinMyHead]

Jocro, I read what you wrote…I think someone said it already, but, It bares repeating. It seems that the difference in this group L3, is that we have decided to go No Contact because the "Fog" has lifted. We see now, how it can never work. How it is actually our illness that allows the BPD to abuse us. It's like we are all running around the forest during hunting season with targets on our heads? Our Narcissism. There are many reasons, and I have my own theories based in Fantasy addiction, for another thread. RMousy is in withdrawal and will hopefully find his way through the fog. You were lucky with your timing. You got some pretty intense tough love, that basically knocked you right outta the fog! That saved you alotta time and $ in therapy …lol Don't be fooled though, it takes a tremendous amount of self love and self respect to resist the tentacles of the clumsiest BPD, let alone the skilled ones craving a hit. I suggest you start nailing your own windows shut and covering the mirrors. Excellent on the phone number change, you did great today! Night... SMH

[Pearl55]

Splitting (also called all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism used by many people.The individual tends to think in extremes (i.e., an individual's actions and motivations are all good or all bad with no middle ground.)

Black and white thinking is a BPD/BPD TRAITS as well as DISORDERED ones but disordered ones take it to the extreme. Many non BPDs have BPD/npd traits themselves that's why we stayed with them for so long!

[joekro]

Good morning,

I woke up today and am feeling alot like my old self again. Yesterdays commentary allowed me to realize the real reason I had to take myself out of the picture completely, and it's not because she is a borderline. It is solely because infiltrating a family like a wolf on sheep and sleeping with another mans wife is reprehensible. It will never happen again with ANYBODY's wife, this I promise you.

When she told me of her condition, I took a mild interest in it but more or less shrugged it off. Recently though, I have been a vacuum, sucking up all of the information I can about BPD... . just so I know. And now my only wish is that I was her last affair, and she and her husband/children have a wonderful life ahead of them, together.

I am sad though, that I have lost a dear friend, and that she suffers from this nightmarish existence.

[SheAskedForaBreak]

If you care about her stop doing the things that exacerbate her issues, like luring her into an affair.  How the heck would you feel if you were her husband?  I feel sorry for all of you.  You think you're fine, but dude you are not.  I had a hook up with a woman years ago and after the act she casually mentioned she's married... .   I lost her number.  Do the right thing bro, get out of that relationship.

[joekro]

Sheaskedforabreak,

I am out, complelely. It is over and done and I am fine with it. It is the right thing. I appreciate your comments and concern.

[joekro]

Your moment of clarity will come too, and when it does... . LIBERATION!

[happylogist]

Good riddance, jocro.

You are a scumbag.

Wow. I understand people here being triggered, upset, and having opinions about it. I go through it too. Reading this is triggering for me, bringing back memories of my ex saying things like that. What good would it do to attack you about it? It's so dismissive of what someone else is going through.

Having pain that's taken out on someone else, aren't many of us here trying to deal with that very thing? Constructive criticism, when someone is reaching out, is one thing, but this post crosses the line.

Mrs. Claus must have really done a number on you, Santa. As did most of our former partners here. I'm sorry you're going through it. Did she reach out for help, the way jocro is, admitting her misdeeds and seeking understanding? Probably not. How about some basic respect for him for at least trying.

I've never even been married and my ex didn't cheat on me.

I just find it disgusting for someone to be involved with a married person. It's so degrading to everyone involved. The whole situation makes my skin crawl.

For that guy to fool around with a married woman and then come here looking for sympathy and try to justify his behavior and look for us to enable him to keep fooling with her really bothers me.

This site isn't supposed to be about that.

It is interesting, Santa, that you acted in the most judgmental moralist way calling names among all people here, not people who truly were hurt, who stayed truly dedicated to their partners and never attempted to cheat. I saw several times your posts about cheating before here, here is the recent one:

Mine never cheated on me either. I cheated on her about 3 months into our relationship though and she never got over it. She did, but then she brought it up whenever she was mad and even recently. It wasn't even a relationship. Just some girl I met in an elevator and wound up having sex with like 5 minutes later when I was drunk. That's the kind of guy I was when we first got together though and I stayed faithful after.

If she cheated on me, I would never have stayed with her.

I think it is obvious that before being disgusted with people and expressing that by calling them names, a rule of thumb is to look at yourself and see whether you as others also have certain shortcomings, even though your cheating was not with a married woman and you stayed afterwards faithful to your partner... . Still not really a Santa... .

[DivorcedNon]

DivorcedNon, I don't know what happened in your life but I don't wish to exacerbate anger so I will quietly tell you that I am wrought with guilt and anguish over what I participated in. I come from a broken home and know the pain involved for all family members when the unit as a whole is at risk, and I supplied the opportunity for this one. I am ashamed of what I did. Feel free to verbally punch me in the face because I do deserve it. But, my jaw is not made of glass. You catch alot more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

When I have made up my mind to disappear completely, I will return to this board.

Again, thank you to all.

jocro,

What happened in my life is what is what happened in lives of many people who are reacting to your story. We were husbands of the woman you are having an affair. Several people pointed that out already. In my case this POSOM is someone I knew for a long time. He divorced his wife to be with my mentally ill ex-wife. One and a half years later, all that seems so immature and nauseating to me. She will cheat on the POSOM too. It is an integral part of her disorder. The POSOM thinks he won a lottery. I am glad to be out.

You need to terminate your affair with this cheating woman NOW and NEVER EVER have any contact with her again! This is not only for moral reasons but for very practical reasons too.  That is what I and others are trying to tell you although sometimes in a not so gentle way. Good luck!

[GreenMango]

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