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Author Topic: The Flaw they find in you is love  (Read 7430 times)
Blimblam
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« on: June 02, 2014, 06:44:48 PM »

I was thinking back and I realized something.

They don't want you to love them.  That is why they resent you.  The Flaw they find in you is LOVE!  They just don't want to deal with their internal struggles and want to be distracted.  When you send them love they don't understand it and it fills then with doubt and confusion and they resent you for it.
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 06:46:02 PM »

They don't understand how you could love them because they don't know or love themselves.

And yes, resentment.
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 07:01:01 PM »

That is why they resent you.  

It's not a flaw in you, because it's not about you. I'm sorry if that sounds comes off as sounding insensitive but a regressed borderline is replaying out abandonment trauma from their past. I didn't know what black and white thinking was at the time, it was very confusing being treated like this. It's a primitive defense mechanism when they are devaluing you, or resenting you.

Excerpt
This defense originates directly from the original core wound of abandonment as I explain in my ebook, The Legacy of Abandonment in BPD. When the borderline is stressed, regressed, and/or triggered by attempts to relate as an adult or attempts to remain close or attempts to tolerane the moving in and out between intimacy/closeness and distance he or she will then be re-experiencing his or her past in the non borderline here and now.

Excerpt
In my opinion, nons need to hold borderlines responsible for their behaviour, even when the borderline may well not "get it". What nons will benefit most from doing is refusing to allow the borderline to treat them abusively as the pendulum of their "borderline reality" swings back and forth from one side of the split to the other. Sometimes, the "all-good" side of the split can be as abusive, by the way, as the "all-bad" rage etc is.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting

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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 07:44:35 PM »

yes, I understand and thank you.   It is not my flaw it is a resentment for their own "flaw" projected onto me.  I think deep down she knows she can not feel selfless love and can not comprehend it. I think the resentment comes from feeling like me wanting her to do something she is not capable of.  She interprets this as a needines and trying to control her on my part. She resents the fact that I broke her fantasy with my "neediness" for a depth she is not capable of understanding.
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 09:02:21 PM »

That is exactly what I went through. Constantly be called needy and I never understood why!  What you said makes total sense! I actually said the words you hate me because I love you and you want to punish me. So you are not alone!
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 09:30:18 PM »

yes, I understand and thank you.   It is not my flaw it is a resentment for their own "flaw" projected onto me.  I think deep down she knows she can not feel selfless love and can not comprehend it. I think the resentment comes from feeling like me wanting her to do something she is not capable of.  She interprets this as a needines and trying to control her on my part. She resents the fact that I broke her fantasy with my "neediness" for a depth she is not capable of understanding.

I understand Blimblam how you can feel resentment, its emotional abuse and toxic. You have a right to feel this way. Read as much as you can about BPD. We have a lot of resources here about this complex and confusing disorder.
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 09:51:40 PM »

I felt resentment  until it clicked and made sense.

now I just feel sorry for her.

I remembered some drawings I drew and she had drawn.  The eyes in the drawings.  She could never put life into the eyes she drew.  At the end when I was filled with her toxic energy I could draw evil eyes then the next time I tried to draw eyes it was empty and lifeless. 

I looked back at a couple of these drawings and the clouds began to clear.

then I thought about our conflicts and how she would always say "I don't understand"

she would go behind my back and tell people how needy and controlling I was then she created situations that made me actually be paranoid and needing of reaffirmation.

But what happened before all that was a moment where in my needing of reaffirmation of love beyond infatuation I must have gave a confused look or some sign when she didn't understand.  wanting from her something beyond her understanding and comprehension. breaking the fantasy.

My desire for something beyond what she was capable of comprehending was needy and selfish to expect from a 3 year old. I wanted more and it broke the fantasy.

It was the best fantasy I ever had.  But I understand now and I accept.  I don't feel resentment towards her I feel anger at her parents the selfish ___s.
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 10:13:13 PM »

One of my friends said something along these lines to me a couple of months back or maybe weeks not sure the exact timing but it was not too long ago. She was in a toxic relationship years ago and had a child with this person at a young age. He verbally bashed her to the ground until finally years later she left. She said to me in regards to my ex and her ex as well that she thinks they are jealous of us deep down. They see something in us kind of a certain light and resent us for it and want to take it or dim it completely. The second thing she said resonated with me even more as I think it is true for most of us judging from the stories I have read. She said they know your real worth and see it in you but at the same time they know that you don't see your real worth either. They do not want you to ever see the real worth in yourself because if you did they fear you would be gone from they're life because they themselves feel lackluster. I know for myself and Im sure many others on here I saw light inside of my ex and I wanted the opposite. I wanted her to see it as well not destroy it or tarnish it. It seemed though that as time went on she has stolen some of my light but wasted it and was unable to retain it. Hate to say it as I know it's controversial on this site but I take a more easternized approach at viewing this so called disorder. I do not view it as an illness like cancer or something of that nature. I view it more of an illness along the lines of alcoholism. The addiction is the behavior itself. I view alot of the physical symptoms that go along with it as a side effect of that addiction. Alcohol addiction is an actual illness too and is treated as one when trying to cure it. Coincidentally alot of the techniques of treating BPD are taken right from the book of curing alcohol addiction.  Even the the way they suggest family stop enabling them is taken from alcohol addiction treatment techniques. Kind of off topic but just popped in my head for some reason.
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 10:27:19 PM »

thanks for the reply AG

When I think back I think My ex wanted it to work and yes she is stuck in a pattern but she created a role for me in her triangle and I took the bait. That is the problem. I think she was very upset about this because she can not stop the pattern she is addicted to it. 

I think I triggered the pattern when I put expectations on her of equity and adult concepts of accountability and comprehension and when she didn't understand the look on my face and tone of my voice broke the fantasy. I think from that point foreward we became more entrenched into the roles she created in her pattern and she resented me for taking away her coleading role in our fantasy.  It was my role to uphold all the conditions for the fantasy to occur and that is a lot of responsibility.  I think If I was a multimillion dollar lotto winner me and her could live the ultimate fantasy and never have a problem, she never raged ever.  She had a level of self awareness and was resentfull for me breaking the fantasy, while I was resentful for her acting like a child when I needed help with keeping things afloat.

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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 10:41:10 PM »

and AG yes I think she did truly recognize something special in me but not being a narcissistic or a psychopath I only got one chance.  Only one chance to break through all the layers. Like in one of those movies where they walk through all the booby-traps and if you make one wrong step its all over and the temple comes crumbling down and you don't get the treasure.

since me she has been with narcissists and I think she is currently with a psychopath... She was a waif though and she wanted me to be her frog prince.  I think she has some weird kid lined up to be her new frog prince. He doesn't seem very intelligent in his deep thoughts so maybe it will work out for them.

Its ok she would never understand of be able to fully appreciate me.  I think way earlier on their were moments when a look on y face when she didn't get me or some reaction to those moments ultimately caused her to doubt. and then she projected and did all those crazy games.
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 10:45:32 PM »

thanks for the reply AG

When I think back I think My ex wanted it to work and yes she is stuck in a pattern but she created a role for me in her triangle and I took the bait. That is the problem. I think she was very upset about this because she can not stop the pattern she is addicted to it. 

I think I triggered the pattern when I put expectations on her of equity and adult concepts of accountability and comprehension and when she didn't understand the look on my face and tone of my voice broke the fantasy. I think from that point foreward we became more entrenched into the roles she created in her pattern and she resented me for taking away her coleading role in our fantasy.  It was my role to uphold all the conditions for the fantasy to occur and that is a lot of responsibility.  I think If I was a multimillion dollar lotto winner me and her could live the ultimate fantasy and never have a problem, she never raged ever.  She had a level of self awareness and was resentfull for me breaking the fantasy, while I was resentful for her acting like a child when I needed help with keeping things afloat.

I think your are wrong about the multi million dollar theory. The addiction would still be there. She would burn through your money so fast it would have made your head spin. You probably would have extended your time with her but the gaping hole inside of her still would have been there. It's the same damn reason why Marilyn Monroe killed herself or the same reason why alot of these stars who have excess amount of money still kill themselves. The money cannot solve that inner turmoil unless they take some of it an use it towards real treatment and actually commit to it and work hard towards it. My ex BPD girlfiend had a boyfriend before me who would keep funneling money into her. More jewlery and more gifts and more trips. He was not rich but definitely was better off than I was and still the same exact nonsense. They are addicts in fact I think with more money and more resources the addiction increases and the childlike tantrums and behavior get worse and more sense of entitlement gets built up later on. More money would have made it worse and you would have been super pissed when all your funds were spent up so quickly. There are other stories I have read on here of people who have lost thousands and thousands of dollars trying to pour money into theyre endless pit. They take the money and gifts and become more and more ungrateful as time passes and then acquire a newer addiction for another person with even more money. You would have just encouraged more parasitic behavior on a much larger scale now. Im sorry for you pain man I really am. If you look back on my posts I think Ive excessively said this before many times but I will say it again. I just still cannot believe that people like this exist in the world.
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2014, 10:54:38 PM »

They see something in us kind of a certain light and resent us for it and want to take it or dim it completely.

I noticed this many times with my ex. It would be sometimes just subtle words and actions that gave her intent or hopes of this away. Her sick mom wanted my light gone completely also.
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2014, 11:01:30 PM »

and AG yes I think she did truly recognize something special in me but not being a narcissistic or a psychopath I only got one chance.  Only one chance to break through all the layers. Like in one of those movies where they walk through all the booby-traps and if you make one wrong step its all over and the temple comes crumbling down and you don't get the treasure.

since me she has been with narcissists and I think she is currently with a psychopath... She was a waif though and she wanted me to be her frog prince.  I think she has some weird kid lined up to be her new frog prince. He doesn't seem very intelligent in his deep thoughts so maybe it will work out for them.

Its ok she would never understand of be able to fully appreciate me.  I think way earlier on their were moments when a look on y face when she didn't get me or some reaction to those moments ultimately caused her to doubt. and then she projected and did all those crazy games.

Your not giving yourself enough credit trust me I truly believe that she saw something in you way greater than you not being a narcissist or psychopath. Take a look on these boards. Take a look at the specific type of personality of people that are on here. Just analyze the sheer quantity of quality in the things people say on here. Take a look at the level of empathy people have on here. The level of empathy we have western medicine would like you to believe is a sickness. I call bull ish I think it is just channeled wrong. Take a look at the characteristics of the people on here judging just by what they have written. Take a look at the light. We aren't perfect thats for damn sure but you better believe that they resent you for what they do not have. Fact of the matter is she was jealous of your light dude. She does not want you to see it for yourself. None of them do. Once they figure out just what kind of heart you have they want to taint it to bring you down a notch. This is my firm belief. I do have sympathy for them I really do or I wouldn't be on this site and would have dropped her ass with the first raging episode I saw. I have more sympathy right now for us though. People who believed in they're abilities and wanted them to believe in it as well. There was nothing wrong with you trying to treat her like an adult. You would be doing her a great disservice if you didn't treat her like an adult. They do need validation but they are simply not children. How does a child ever grow into an adult if you continuously treat them like a child. You did good man. The best you could do.
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2014, 11:21:32 PM »

One of my friends said something along these lines to me a couple of months back or maybe weeks not sure the exact timing but it was not too long ago. She was in a toxic relationship years ago and had a child with this person at a young age. He verbally bashed her to the ground until finally years later she left. She said to me in regards to my ex and her ex as well that she thinks they are jealous of us deep down. They see something in us kind of a certain light and resent us for it and want to take it or dim it completely. The second thing she said resonated with me even more as I think it is true for most of us judging from the stories I have read. She said they know your real worth and see it in you but at the same time they know that you don't see your real worth either. They do not want you to ever see the real worth in yourself because if you did they fear you would be gone from they're life because they themselves feel lackluster.

I am keeping this quote... . Thank you AG. This sums up my feelings so perfectly.

My question is... . Do you think that abusive partners always have a conscious desire to dim that light or do you think they can do it without knowing that they've done anything wrong?
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2014, 11:30:39 PM »

since me she has been with narcissists and I think she is currently with a psychopath... She was a waif though and she wanted me to be her frog prince.  I think she has some weird kid lined up to be her new frog prince. He doesn't seem very intelligent in his deep thoughts so maybe it will work out for them.

That is like my Waif. She left me for a guy who broadcasts narcissistc traits all over social media (I checked it out back when I was obsessing over it).

It's easy and shallow validation from both sides, with little in the way of comitment in general... it was her pattern before me. I'll give her credit for realizing it and trying something new for a few years. Unfortunately, now our kids are involved in the dysfunction... .
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2014, 11:35:11 PM »

Excerpt
Your not giving yourself enough credit trust me I truly believe that she saw something in you way greater than you not being a narcissist or psychopath. Take a look on these boards. Take a look at the specific type of personality of people that are on here. Just analyze the sheer quantity of quality in the things people say on here. Take a look at the level of empathy people have on here. The level of empathy we have western medicine would like you to believe is a sickness. I call bull ish I think it is just channeled wrong. Take a look at the characteristics of the people on here judging just by what they have written. Take a look at the light. We aren't perfect thats for damn sure but you better believe that they resent you for what they do not have. Fact of the matter is she was jealous of your light dude. She does not want you to see it for yourself. None of them do. Once they figure out just what kind of heart you have they want to taint it to bring you down a notch. This is my firm belief. I do have sympathy for them I really do or I wouldn't be on this site and would have dropped her ass with the first raging episode I saw. I have more sympathy right now for us though. People who believed in they're abilities and wanted them to believe in it as well. There was nothing wrong with you trying to treat her like an adult. You would be doing her a great disservice if you didn't treat her like an adult. They do need validation but they are simply not children. How does a child ever grow into an adult if you continuously treat them like a child. You did good man. The best you could do.

thank you AG and I agree with you.  This particular girl was sort of special maybe even amoungst BPD people. But when I wanted to be me she wanted to take my light like you say.  I think she wanted to take my light to create a fantasy but her requirements were I was endlessly patient and understanding and always took charge in creating the fantasy.

but yes upholding the fantasy or not its still taking my energy away from me.  She wanted my role to be creating a fantasy world for her to frolic and feel safe in, which is a type of control and manipulation. I don't think there really is any way to escape her vampire like nature. except for nc.  

I have had 2 1+ year relationships with 2 BPD waifs.  Had flings with 5 other waifs. And My mom is  BPD queen witch.  I am conditioned to be attracted to them I guess.

I didn't know about BPD till the other day but I thought about all of this without the labels for years and years.

the thing about this last one is Like you said addicted to the patterns she is stuck in but will have lucid moments where she pushes me away because she doesn't want to hurt me.  Then when I stay she hurts me worst than ever with no guilt.  I am going NC now.

I think they truly want the fantasy and that it isn't fake until they move on from it and we fight to defend it. so they lie to us to maintain it.  the problem I see is deciding what was real and what was a lie because at a certain point it becomes a lie.  I think that point is when you expect them to love you the way you love them. As soon as you truly love them and they love you I think we create the lie ourselves and they resent us for expecting something they can not do.  I put about 5 years of thought into that.  
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2014, 11:48:46 PM »

They don't want you to love them.  That is why they resent you.  The Flaw they find in you is LOVE!  They just don't want to deal with their internal struggles and want to be distracted.  When you send them love they don't understand it and it fills then with doubt and confusion and they resent you for it.

This comment struck me. When I told my uBPD friend I loved her, things went downhill. She initially insisted I was just infatuated. I had known her for a couple of years by then, so it's not like we'd just met. Later she said that having me in love with her wasn't a nice feeling. How's that for a kick in the b*lls.  :'(  She said she couldn't wait for the fog to lift and for me to see the real her. I thought I had already seen the 'real her'. If not, who had I been friends with for the past two years? I could fully accept that she wasn't in love with me. Unrequited love hurts, but it happens all the time. What shocked me was that she resented me being in love with her. It now makes sense in light of Blimblam's comments.

She just wanted someone she could call up and dump her ___ on with no strings attached.
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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2014, 12:13:00 AM »


That is like my Waif. She left me for a guy who broadcasts narcissistc traits all over social media (I checked it out back when I was obsessing over it).

It's easy and shallow validation from both sides, with little in the way of comitment in general... it was her pattern before me. I'll give her credit for realizing it and trying something new for a few years. Unfortunately, now our kids are involved in the dysfunction... .

I am so sorry Turkish!  I used to be upset for my waifs but I can not even imagine having children in the mix.  I have done quite a bit of reading throughout the boards but the thing is the waifs act a lot different than how most people describe their pwBPD. At least the waifs I knew.  Each waif was different too.  One would rage trouble. One was a wandering hitchhiker, she wanted me to run away with her, that one was special.  another one was a drug addict and a hooker, that one was major trouble.  One was a major freak and got into porn... . lost my v card to her.  Another left her entire life to come live in the forest with me but I abandoned her she wasn't so special though.  One was a world traveler and we had a fling she wanted me to run away with her but I didn't. the last one was special too and had potential to feel empathy.

the two waifs I say are special were the 5th type from the karpman triangle thing.  The ones who saw what their parents were doing and vowed to be different than them. Yes, they have that emptiness. But their innerconflict was one of trying to be "good people."  On some level these two although seemingly the intelligence of a 10 year olds would have some kinds of prophetic and profound insights on how I should react.  Yes, all a form of control but they seemed to have the insight to guide one to act in a way that would not trigger them and maintain the fantasy.  There main concern was maintaining the fantasy.  They spoke of past partners in an honest and not vilified way even though they were mostly narcissists and psychopaths. They just do not fit into the neat boxes people have for the BPDs I read about on these boards. In fact they were very different from even the other waifs but had a few key things in common with each other. But yes they did want to take my light to create their personal fantasy world.

And Turkish the waifs seem to be extra submissive and it fits very well with the narcissist or psychopath very easy prey for them. and the waif doesn't have to face real complex feelings.
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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 01:01:57 AM »

One of my friends said something along these lines to me a couple of months back or maybe weeks not sure the exact timing but it was not too long ago. She was in a toxic relationship years ago and had a child with this person at a young age. He verbally bashed her to the ground until finally years later she left. She said to me in regards to my ex and her ex as well that she thinks they are jealous of us deep down. They see something in us kind of a certain light and resent us for it and want to take it or dim it completely. The second thing she said resonated with me even more as I think it is true for most of us judging from the stories I have read. She said they know your real worth and see it in you but at the same time they know that you don't see your real worth either. They do not want you to ever see the real worth in yourself because if you did they fear you would be gone from they're life because they themselves feel lackluster.

I am keeping this quote... . Thank you AG. This sums up my feelings so perfectly.

My question is... . Do you think that abusive partners always have a conscious desire to dim that light or do you think they can do it without knowing that they've done anything wrong?

They do know. I don't think that they react consciously all the time though. Anyone can act on impulse at times you don't have to be sick to be overwhelmed with emotion. I just reacted off impulse las night matter of fact. I do think subconscious does play a factor. Coincidentally that same friend who told me that said that her daughters father admitted it once in a emotional breakdown of tears. He said he was afraid of losing her blah blah blah. He would call her stupid, worthless, and all types of other stuff. Meanwhile she tried to uplift him. She helped him apply to schools and encouraged him to elevate in life. He would also say noone would ever want her. They basically treat you how they feel inside. Beat you down and lower you down to how they feel this way you truly do feel you cannot get anyone better emotionally speaking and possibly effecting your logic as well. I think even if your happy and they are not it makes them pissed off and jealous of you being happy. Ever been doing something fun or even remotely fun without your BPD ex and have them call you raging? I bet the chances are you have. Why is that? Hmmmm I wonder because they feel low so now it is time for you to feel low. Why the excessive jealousy from them? Because they know they feel like garbage inside and are constantly thinking someone else will notice your light as well. How can they make you unnoticeable. Break you down to size thats how. 

Her ex was not BPD.  The tactic is still the same Im sure that if he were taken to a doctor they would diagnose him with something and then he could make an excuse for the behavior and invoke more sympathy.

He still had core trauma though and the addiction as I said was the abuse and bad behavior but he was offered countless amounts of help and support and ultimately abandoned his family in the end. So yes I think in a whole sense they do make a conscious choice but I do feel they act off impulse alot as well. When the storm is calmed though what are they doing with that time? Are they using it to make efforts to get better and not cause the damage they just inflicted or are they using that time unwisely? 

Now if only I could accept my own advice Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I can give it way better then I can follow it for some reason but I'm working on that now.
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2014, 01:12:00 AM »

They don't want you to love them.  That is why they resent you.  The Flaw they find in you is LOVE!  They just don't want to deal with their internal struggles and want to be distracted.  When you send them love they don't understand it and it fills then with doubt and confusion and they resent you for it.

This comment struck me. When I told my uBPD friend I loved her, things went downhill. She initially insisted I was just infatuated. I had known her for a couple of years by then, so it's not like we'd just met. Later she said that having me in love with her wasn't a nice feeling. How's that for a kick in the b*lls.  :'(  She said she couldn't wait for the fog to lift and for me to see the real her. I thought I had already seen the 'real her'. If not, who had I been friends with for the past two years? I could fully accept that she wasn't in love with me. Unrequited love hurts, but it happens all the time. What shocked me was that she resented me being in love with her. It now makes sense in light of Blimblam's comments.

She just wanted someone she could call up and dump her ___ on with no strings attached.

Blimblam you are really onto something here and this has given me some food for thought. Others' responses building on this are equally thought provoking.

Bruised, i don't know if it's fair to say your friend's reaction to you telling her you loved her was part of her BPD. It's common for women to feel this way when a friend tells them, after knowing them for a long period of time, that they are in love with them. This happens to women a lot, especially really attractive women that get a lot of attention. They learn not to trust men's intentions because so many times men act 'nice' to them when in reality they actually just like them. I've heard this from several women friends of mine. A woman I was dating (very attractive and very nice/stable) told me how she had a male friend for several years and one day he revealed that he had was in love with her--she felt betrayed. This guy was supposed to be her plutonic friend, which she loved but now she realized he had other motives.

If i like a woman, i will let her know as soon as it's appropriate. I never tell a woman i'm ok being friends if that wasn't my original intention. Or, I can be friends with them, but i let them know "well, ok i promise not to sweep you off your feet and make you fall into a lustful stupor over me. all bets off!" :-) there is a lovely young woman i have in mind who recently (after a couple dates) wanted to just be friends, and i am completely ok with it. i would even meet up with her if she was with someone else, she's that cool... . besides i have other options romantically.

i really do love the feminine. and talking with lots of intelligent, attractive women (mostly friends, some who i may be seeing) i've learned a lot about what they have to go through, likes/dislikes. i'm sure you have tons of examples of your friend acting like a pwBPD but this situation sounds like a normal reaction for a woman to have. just a thought
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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2014, 01:29:07 AM »

Bruised, i don't know if it's fair to say your friend's reaction to you telling her you loved her was part of her BPD. It's common for women to feel this way when a friend tells them, after knowing them for a long period of time, that they are in love with them.

Fair comment goldylamont and thanks for bringing it up. I'm aware that many women face this issue, but I had told her well before this that I had feelings for her. To be fair she told me she didn't have feelings for me, but then behaved in ways that convinced me was developing them. She led me on. She admitted this later, which I suppose I should give her credit for.

It definitely is dishonest to pretend to be a woman's friend when you have more carnal intentions. That wasn't how our relationship was.
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« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2014, 01:30:52 AM »

they crave the love the didn't get at a young age.  They never developed to be able to feel love beyond that of a parent figure to a child, them being the child of course. It is up to the parent to provide all the ingredients to sustain the childs existence and make the child feel safe.

that is all they want, that and to have their brains f***d out.  The problem is they are an adult and they feel like a lost child.  So, what they want is for you to construct a fantasy world for them for them to feel safe in and experience all the wonderment of a child.  the fantasy world is to distract them from the confusion and despair that lurks under the surface. the fear and loathing.

we think they want to be rescued and work through their issues. they don't.  We think they want to be loved. not love as equals. when we out of our own wants and desires love them in a way they don't understand or comprehend confuses them and that is what they are wanting to escape.  Our desire for them to recipicate this love they can not comprehend scares them because they fear we will abandon them unless they become something for us that they can not.  Thus we are perceived as controlling and needy, and have shattered the fantasy they have come to rely on us to create for them.  ANd there will be hell to pay!
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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2014, 01:33:22 AM »

Oh, I forgot- she flirted like crazy with me at a party before I told her I had feelings for her. I felt like I was setup, but now I realise it was the disorder.
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2014, 01:33:46 AM »

One of my friends said something along these lines to me a couple of months back or maybe weeks not sure the exact timing but it was not too long ago. She was in a toxic relationship years ago and had a child with this person at a young age. He verbally bashed her to the ground until finally years later she left. She said to me in regards to my ex and her ex as well that she thinks they are jealous of us deep down. They see something in us kind of a certain light and resent us for it and want to take it or dim it completely. The second thing she said resonated with me even more as I think it is true for most of us judging from the stories I have read. She said they know your real worth and see it in you but at the same time they know that you don't see your real worth either. They do not want you to ever see the real worth in yourself because if you did they fear you would be gone from they're life because they themselves feel lackluster. I know for myself and Im sure many others on here I saw light inside of my ex and I wanted the opposite. I wanted her to see it as well not destroy it or tarnish it. It seemed though that as time went on she has stolen some of my light but wasted it and was unable to retain it. Hate to say it as I know it's controversial on this site but I take a more easternized approach at viewing this so called disorder. I do not view it as an illness like cancer or something of that nature. I view it more of an illness along the lines of alcoholism. The addiction is the behavior itself. I view alot of the physical symptoms that go along with it as a side effect of that addiction. Alcohol addiction is an actual illness too and is treated as one when trying to cure it. Coincidentally alot of the techniques of treating BPD are taken right from the book of curing alcohol addiction.  Even the the way they suggest family stop enabling them is taken from alcohol addiction treatment techniques. Kind of off topic but just popped in my head for some reason.

this whole post resonated with me so much AG, thank you for sharing and thank your friend! the things my ex said to and about me, especially after the breakup just made no sense. i remember her saying certain things and after the words left her mouth i had the strong voice in my head saying "this woman is trying to *break* you, what the heck?" i'm fortunate because i never believed much of this sillyness, but boy did it break me down to know that someone i loved was coming at me so foul. her words were meaningless to me but her intentions just hurt me to the core. this is mostly water under the bridge now for me, but very happy you shared your perspective AG as it puts into words how i feel.
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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 01:37:22 AM »

They don't want you to love them.  That is why they resent you.  The Flaw they find in you is LOVE!  They just don't want to deal with their internal struggles and want to be distracted.  When you send them love they don't understand it and it fills then with doubt and confusion and they resent you for it.

This comment struck me. When I told my uBPD friend I loved her, things went downhill. She initially insisted I was just infatuated. I had known her for a couple of years by then, so it's not like we'd just met. Later she said that having me in love with her wasn't a nice feeling. How's that for a kick in the b*lls.  :'(  She said she couldn't wait for the fog to lift and for me to see the real her. I thought I had already seen the 'real her'. If not, who had I been friends with for the past two years? I could fully accept that she wasn't in love with me. Unrequited love hurts, but it happens all the time. What shocked me was that she resented me being in love with her. It now makes sense in light of Blimblam's comments.

She just wanted someone she could call up and dump her ___ on with no strings attached.

Blimblam you are really onto something here and this has given me some food for thought. Others' responses building on this are equally thought provoking.

Bruised, i don't know if it's fair to say your friend's reaction to you telling her you loved her was part of her BPD. It's common for women to feel this way when a friend tells them, after knowing them for a long period of time, that they are in love with them. This happens to women a lot, especially really attractive women that get a lot of attention. They learn not to trust men's intentions because so many times men act 'nice' to them when in reality they actually just like them. I've heard this from several women friends of mine. A woman I was dating (very attractive and very nice/stable) told me how she had a male friend for several years and one day he revealed that he had was in love with her--she felt betrayed. This guy was supposed to be her plutonic friend, which she loved but now she realized he had other motives.

If i like a woman, i will let her know as soon as it's appropriate. I never tell a woman i'm ok being friends if that wasn't my original intention. Or, I can be friends with them, but i let them know "well, ok i promise not to sweep you off your feet and make you fall into a lustful stupor over me. all bets off!" :-) there is a lovely young woman i have in mind who recently (after a couple dates) wanted to just be friends, and i am completely ok with it. i would even meet up with her if she was with someone else, she's that cool... . besides i have other options romantically.

i really do love the feminine. and talking with lots of intelligent, attractive women (mostly friends, some who i may be seeing) i've learned a lot about what they have to go through, likes/dislikes. i'm sure you have tons of examples of your friend acting like a pwBPD but this situation sounds like a normal reaction for a woman to have. just a thought

We have similar thoughts on this. I'm a little harsher with it though. If I try to date a woman and it does not work out. They respectfully decline to be romantic and I respectfully decline to be friends in return. I'm not a dueche about it. I just state we just have different wants so I do not think a friendship would work out between us. My logic is I already have enough friends and if I initially tried to date you and it didn't spark up then thats that end of story. Women do reserve the right to decline dating you but you also reserve the right to accept who you want in your life as a friend. My experience is that your just going to set yourself up for internally waiting for some type of chance to come up later and why would you do that to yourself. Animosity can build up when you see other men getting a go around with who you really secretly want for yourself. So for me friend is truly friend and romantic is romantic. No in between and no waiting in the friendship zone hoping for some scraps to be thrown my way.

It's funny I explained this to my boss once when she was going out with a quote on quote guy friend who initially was interested romantically and she fixed herself up and was trying to look sexy. When I asked her why is she trying to look sexy she said oh because other men will be there and I already explained to the guy that theres not chance and he is ok with being friends. I said to her I call bull ish and I guarantee you he will try something tonight. I also called bull ish on her as well and said you like the attention and you are basically dangling meat in front of a starving dog but not giving him any of the meat. She of course denied this and laughed it off. The very next day she came in to work and told me that I was right and the guy kept feeding her drinks and tried to get her to come to his house to watch the game instead of going to the sports bar. I said I told you so to her but also said c'mon cut the crap you know damn well you like that attention. Denied it again of course and I said poor guy you aint ish but in a playful way. She knew damn well what she was doing though she boosted her confidence while crushing this poor guys confidence in the process. Not a cool move in my book at all on her part.
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« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2014, 01:41:46 AM »

They don't want you to love them.  That is why they resent you.  The Flaw they find in you is LOVE!  They just don't want to deal with their internal struggles and want to be distracted.  When you send them love they don't understand it and it fills then with doubt and confusion and they resent you for it.

This comment struck me. When I told my uBPD friend I loved her, things went downhill. She initially insisted I was just infatuated. I had known her for a couple of years by then, so it's not like we'd just met. Later she said that having me in love with her wasn't a nice feeling. How's that for a kick in the b*lls.  :'(  She said she couldn't wait for the fog to lift and for me to see the real her. I thought I had already seen the 'real her'. If not, who had I been friends with for the past two years? I could fully accept that she wasn't in love with me. Unrequited love hurts, but it happens all the time. What shocked me was that she resented me being in love with her. It now makes sense in light of Blimblam's comments.

She just wanted someone she could call up and dump her ___ on with no strings attached.

they will string along multiple guys and or girls.  WHen they decide it is your turn they want to try to make you love them. But they don't want you to love them which is the paradox.  If you confess your love before they gave you a turn to be their "host" to create the fantasy world for them then you basically disqualify yourself from the game unless they need someone to leach energy from right away.
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« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2014, 01:47:17 AM »

Your not giving yourself enough credit trust me I truly believe that she saw something in you way greater than you not being a narcissist or psychopath. Take a look on these boards. Take a look at the specific type of personality of people that are on here. Just analyze the sheer quantity of quality in the things people say on here. Take a look at the level of empathy people have on here. The level of empathy we have western medicine would like you to believe is a sickness. I call bull ish I think it is just channeled wrong. Take a look at the characteristics of the people on here judging just by what they have written. Take a look at the light. We aren't perfect thats for damn sure but you better believe that they resent you for what they do not have. Fact of the matter is she was jealous of your light dude. She does not want you to see it for yourself. None of them do. Once they figure out just what kind of heart you have they want to taint it to bring you down a notch. This is my firm belief. I do have sympathy for them I really do or I wouldn't be on this site and would have dropped her ass with the first raging episode I saw. I have more sympathy right now for us though. People who believed in they're abilities and wanted them to believe in it as well. There was nothing wrong with you trying to treat her like an adult. You would be doing her a great disservice if you didn't treat her like an adult. They do need validation but they are simply not children. How does a child ever grow into an adult if you continuously treat them like a child. You did good man. The best you could do.

Yes.  This resonates with me big time.  In fact he used to tell me that someone needed to knock me off my chair, (I believe) because he couldn't stand that he couldn't get me to play ugly with him.  I refused to go there with him. I refused to abuse him back, I refused to play games with him. He got huge doses of love and compassion from me throughout.  That's what drew him to me, and those are the qualities he seemed to want to destroy.  Jealously, resentment, maybe.  Interesting.  
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« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2014, 01:58:36 AM »

... . She knew damn well what she was doing though she boosted her confidence while crushing this poor guys confidence in the process. Not a cool move in my book at all on her part.

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), preach AG, preach! Smiling (click to insert in post) and i totally agree that people will toy with others emotions just to get an ego boost. doesn't take a PD to do this, but i'd imagine a pwBPD could do this with with more zeal and less remorse than others.

regarding the friend-zone--i'm pretty much where you are on this, i don't keep a woman as a 'friend' if i really want something else from them. but there's certain scenarios where i'm truly detached and i don't mind if she's with other guys. there's some women who i just enjoy their company... . and besides when you are out with an attractive plutonic woman she is like the best wing-(wo)man Smiling (click to insert in post) also should throw out there that i've had a couple of plutonic women friends who i would hang out with and then i may meet someone else... . so my friend would see me in a different light somehow when another woman is showing interest in me. i had a girl friend-zone me but i loved hanging out--one time she asked me if i could hang out the next day. i told her i was busy but maybe later. she asked why so i was just honest and told her i was going out with this girl so i couldn't make it. this seemed to baffle her since we'd been doing a lot of couples things together (riding bikes, swimming, etc) so she implied she was just surprised that i was dating someone else. i told her in a joking matter "oh, well yeah i love dating this woman we have a cool time and lots of great sex. with you it's cool being friends, we can ride bikes and be kids. like brother and sister. i do grown folks stuff with this woman, but with you we do kids stuff and it's fun." a week later my 'friend' had changed her perception of me and how sweet it was  Smiling (click to insert in post)  << this is *not* why i keep a woman friend though, just saying if you are truly detached you wield more power than you may know...
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« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2014, 02:08:14 AM »

They don't want you to love them.  That is why they resent you.  The Flaw they find in you is LOVE!  They just don't want to deal with their internal struggles and want to be distracted.  When you send them love they don't understand it and it fills then with doubt and confusion and they resent you for it.

This comment struck me. When I told my uBPD friend I loved her, things went downhill. She initially insisted I was just infatuated. I had known her for a couple of years by then, so it's not like we'd just met. Later she said that having me in love with her wasn't a nice feeling. How's that for a kick in the b*lls.  :'(  She said she couldn't wait for the fog to lift and for me to see the real her. I thought I had already seen the 'real her'. If not, who had I been friends with for the past two years? I could fully accept that she wasn't in love with me. Unrequited love hurts, but it happens all the time. What shocked me was that she resented me being in love with her. It now makes sense in light of Blimblam's comments.

She just wanted someone she could call up and dump her ___ on with no strings attached.

they will string along multiple guys and or girls.  WHen they decide it is your turn they want to try to make you love them. But they don't want you to love them which is the paradox.  If you confess your love before they gave you a turn to be their "host" to create the fantasy world for them then you basically disqualify yourself from the game unless they need someone to leach energy from right away.

yessir. the dark truth.

i sometimes feel the need to express this to others in the earlier stages of detachment but it's difficult to know when/if someone is ready to accept this. and then of course this doesn't apply in all situations, or only to a varying degree. still you can see the pattern often enough.
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« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2014, 02:08:30 AM »

wow, the waif sounds very different from the types of people you all delt with.  I don't think I would be able to get close to any of those other types of borderlines.  the waifs told me what they wanted from me until I stopped creating their fantasy world. then they resented me forever after that.  they are honest in their desires and wants from you in the beginning.

I thougt long and hard about what was real and what was not real.  I saw them lead other guys on and tell me that's all guys want so I make them think that because I have no friends. At the time it was the truth.  The also had other guys they would want to f*** that were called "like a brother." they always had these guys mentally on the back burner even if they never were in touch with them. If you confessed love to them as one of these back burner guys you basically lose respect in her eyes she doesn't want to deal with love its to complex.

At the same time she just wants to feel loved and needed blah blah. BUt really she just wants a lead role in the movie of your creation.  you at the drivers wheel calling the shots. No, wonder they end up with narccisists and pshychopaths!  

Think of that French movie Amalie.  I think Amalie is a borderline waif.



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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2014, 02:42:21 AM »

I do think sometimes like a child mine was play acting. I read an email to a coworker/'friend' the day after she started an affair. Everyone was worried as she dropped of the map, told me crying she may have taken some odd drug, I was scared she had been in an accident. The email had all the joy and sense of drama of a child... . 'no I'm ok just slept of a hangover,  (me) went mad'

Pain as drama

There was no remorse or thoughts of me worrying about her, just a joy in the drama. Fantasy, I think mine could hardly feel any emotional depth if at all. The pain she put everyone through was strange to her. A fantasy game each player an object. The rest was excuses to fool everyone else she was human, feeling real human emotions.

'We haven't really been going out for a year'

'I love you but I'm not in love with you'

'People can't stay together just for dogs'

Fantasy is all they can stand or understand, it is simple. love is real. I just realised most of her conversations to other people were about how much she loved me, to cover up her lack of self. My friends, family and colleagues were infiltrated by her pretense to love me. Yuck, I need a shower.

Yes Blim, I think they live fantasy and hate the real. Envy others in love, fear and hate disguised as love.

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« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2014, 08:30:50 AM »

i think my exBPD was jealous of me. i did not realize it initially though.

during the idealization phase, she was victimizing herself telling me her stories with exs. she has a long black history  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) . anyway, i was silent i did not know how to react. she was like "stories are freaky right?" i was like "not much. i just dont want to appear giving you sympathy. i am more empathetic though." she was like "OH MY GOD YOU CAN EVEN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM. YOU ARE SO GREAT." sounded weird but i skipped  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) .


On more than an occasion, i would appreciate myself (in a healthy way) and she would be like "you love yourself too much. you think high of yourself. how are you always doing that?" i see that she was trying to both wear my self esteem and at the same time she was really questioning something she was lacking. love of self.


during the devaluation phase, she has been Triangulation with her ex. she tried to convince me that they have this "special friendship"  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) . she was trying to tease me by saying "ex bought a new house in slovenia. he is asking me to go visit. i am thinking of doing so." i was like "do not you see that this gesture has more than friendship intentions from his side?" she was like "yes it is obvious but i am totally just his friend." i was like "but you have broke up with him like only 3 months ago. I think he does not get it. don't you think that going to slovenia checking his new house would give him false hope of any re ignition." she said "I DO NOT CARE. I WANT TO SEE SLOVENIA AND EUROPE. HE IS AN OLD MAN AND HE SHOULD BE KNOWING WHAT HE IS DOING." it felt like i was struck with a lighting at that moment.


sometimes they are lucid. during a crazy making session she started crying and telling me friend "I am a miserable woman with a miserable life. I do not want him involved in this. I think he is better off without me." she can see her pattern. she can see that there is something wrong with her. she was trying to be as honest as much as her disorder would allow her to. but still she discarded me in a moment without remorse as 'i am a grown up man and i should be knowing what i am doing'
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2014, 10:53:38 AM »

but still she discarded me in a moment without remorse as 'i am a grown up man and i should be knowing what i am doing'

she said some ish like that to me too. But after the break up when I was being strung along and I was possibly going to be recycled but her histrionic narcissist friend was going to ditch me 25 miles from home because she refused to meet me at a fountain in the middle of the convention center we were at.  They wanted me to meet them at a place they didn't know how to even describe. I said "Fug off Ill walk back" they ended up waiting in a cocos or something a 10 minute walk away and I met them there. Her friend was sitting their waiting b___ing about me on the phone to her gf about how inconsiderate I was.  When I got their I kept my cool because I didn't want to make a scene.  later I got black out drunk and told her friend off through texts.  She has been feeding her this whole spiel about me behind my back that she starts to parrot now. "your a grown man you should know blah blah... . "  I said "the older you get the more it hurts when you are betrayed because you understand what you are feeling more"
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2014, 12:20:52 PM »

Take a look at the light. We aren't perfect thats for damn sure but you better believe that they resent you for what they do not have. Fact of the matter is she was jealous of your light dude. She does not want you to see it for yourself. None of them do. Once they figure out just what kind of heart you have they want to taint it to bring you down a notch. This is my firm belief. I do have sympathy for them I really do or I wouldn't be on this site and would have dropped her ass with the first raging episode I saw. I have more sympathy right now for us though. People who believed in they're abilities and wanted them to believe in it as well. There was nothing wrong with you trying to treat her like an adult. You would be doing her a great disservice if you didn't treat her like an adult. They do need validation but they are simply not children. How does a child ever grow into an adult if you continuously treat them like a child. You did good man. The best you could do.

My exBPDgf literally told me after two cases of infidelity that "she hoped I never realized that I was worth more than this."  Or that "she hoped I never realized my self-worth is way more than this". 

Near verbatim, it was a few months after the second time, however she literally said it.  Almost as if she did not want me to notice "the light" we are referencing here and wanted to make sure I stayed in her dark oubliette with her.
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« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2014, 01:52:14 PM »

The second thing she said resonated with me even more as I think it is true for most of us judging from the stories I have read. She said they know your real worth and see it in you but at the same time they know that you don't see your real worth either. They do not want you to ever see the real worth in yourself because if you did they fear you would be gone from they're life because they themselves feel lackluster. I know for myself and Im sure many others on here I saw light inside of my ex and I wanted the opposite. I wanted her to see it as well not destroy it or tarnish it.

This is one of the truest things I have read on this site, and one of the most valuable, because I think it's the one from which many of us (or at least certainly I) can learn the most.  All of us here: plenty of people in the world see the worth in us.  Many of us don't see it ourselves.  And so we are vulnerable to involvement with people who will (consciously or not) take advantage of this trait in us in order to feed their own psychological needs.

Until we really see and believe in our own worth, we will continue to be vulnerable to such people.  This is why we really must focus on ourselves. 
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« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2014, 07:32:06 PM »

wow, the waif sounds very different from the types of people you all delt with.  I don't think I would be able to get close to any of those other types of borderlines.  the waifs told me what they wanted from me until I stopped creating their fantasy world. then they resented me forever after that.  they are honest in their desires and wants from you in the beginning.

I thougt long and hard about what was real and what was not real.  I saw them lead other guys on and tell me that's all guys want so I make them think that because I have no friends. At the time it was the truth.  The also had other guys they would want to f*** that were called "like a brother." they always had these guys mentally on the back burner even if they never were in touch with them. If you confessed love to them as one of these back burner guys you basically lose respect in her eyes she doesn't want to deal with love its to complex.

At the same time she just wants to feel loved and needed blah blah. BUt really she just wants a lead role in the movie of your creation.  you at the drivers wheel calling the shots. No, wonder they end up with narccisists and pshychopaths!  

Think of that French movie Amalie.  I think Amalie is a borderline waif.


My BPD ex was a waif. They are not honest and upfront dude. They hide behind playing weak to cover lies. In my opinion they are the worst type. Sort of a wolf in sheeps clothing. It is very hard for an empathetic type person to not fall into the pity party and think that things are your fault that obviously arent. Mine was an expert on the pity party and probably to this day could have me feeling sorry or guilty for something of her own doing. From what Ive read they are also the hardest to treat too.
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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2014, 08:39:13 PM »

The last time I saw my ex (night we broke up) she made belittling comments towards me telling me to take her off this pedestal I placed her on (Very strange having told me I was so amazing to her and her family), that she thought I was very fake and that there was no way I could be this nice of a person; that I was not genuine  The last time I saw her, she was so cold and distant. I heard stories from people on this board writing about their SO's eyes being as dark and full of hatred as can be. I kid you not, they are not lying. It's as if my ex was possessed, even her face hadn't looked the same (very angry as if I did something beyond horrific to her). Looking back at it all now, I see how blinded I was about her and how unfaithful I was to my own health and well being. She was projecting her guilt onto me due to the fact that she was Triangulation me with her ex and who else... .

It's so terrible to see so many people suffer through this ordeal with someone they truly loved. Everyone's situation's on these boards are all very similar in nature;  I agree with everyone on this post. They want you to love them and commit 100% to their wants and needs (bottomless pit of validation), but the minute they have you, you're suddenly labeled as being needy, suffocating, selfish, controlling. This whole experience with my ex has really wanted me to change my own self worth and set firmer boundaries.

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« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2014, 09:24:24 PM »

confused a lot,

I remember when I decided to go with my gut and I just couldn't trust her and push her away.  I kept messeging her, "stop lying be real with me"

she kept messaging back, "Ive never lied to you [blimblam]" 

I would respond, "now that's a lie! just be real with me"

I stated texting, "look I know. just be real"

She sent me this snapchat of her eye upclose with the most angry look like enraged with the text, "what do you mean?"

I messaged back "ew"

that's the moment it really ended.
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2014, 06:40:22 AM »

~Blimblam

You are 100% correct. Always trust your gut instinct. I only wish I had, my heart, brain, and other parts of my body were talking, but the one thing I wasn't listening to (more like I purposely ignored) was that strong inner voice... .
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« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2014, 07:36:55 AM »

confused a lot,

I remember when I decided to go with my gut and I just couldn't trust her and push her away.  I kept messeging her, "stop lying be real with me"

she kept messaging back, "Ive never lied to you [blimblam]" 

this is the initial conversation of my break up call. "i have never lied to you." i was about to snort out of laughter.
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« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2014, 10:06:51 AM »

I am getting to the party late, but I have been keeping up with this thread.  Great insight.  I recall reading another forum on a similar topic and a poster put it this way... . The BPDs treat relationships like little children playing dolls/dollhouse.  My situation suddenly made more sense.  They truly have the emotional maturity of a young child. 
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« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2014, 10:27:42 AM »

I recall reading another forum on a similar topic and a poster put it this way... . The BPDs treat relationships like little children playing dolls/dollhouse.

Omg yes. This actually makes perfect sense. There were so many times that my ex tried to 'pose' me like a doll sitting in a dollhouse... . She would do things like push me to sign up for sports events because she wanted to play the supportive partner cheering from the sidelines.
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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2014, 02:15:51 PM »

I recall reading another forum on a similar topic and a poster put it this way... . The BPDs treat relationships like little children playing dolls/dollhouse.

Omg yes. This actually makes perfect sense. There were so many times that my ex tried to 'pose' me like a doll sitting in a dollhouse... . She would do things like push me to sign up for sports events because she wanted to play the supportive partner cheering from the sidelines.

Yes and part of me was addicted to this feeling.  I still am and in fact I think if I was able to rebuild myself up strong again and the timing was right she would want to recycle me just so she could once again play doll house. And find the center in me chew it up and leave.  When I think about all her advice about wanting me to heal and get everything in my life to a point she would be attracted to me and respect me again.  Which would take years probably. I think I would be able to relive the beginning stages but it would end the same way.  I think that is her nature and now that I am in a weak state the only type of friendship possible is a form of devAluing and to be used to triangulate.  If she sensed I was strong enough to take on the role of her main squeeze it would only be to take my energy and leave me empty.

So I have come to my own realization is that the pain and anguish I and distrust is the feeling of my me feeling her demon.  And the part of me coming back for more is my inner demon. The part of me saying do not trust her is my broken shattered self desperately wanting to rebuild and build up energy.  She wants me to rebuild energy and stay in her life but not for me only so she can feed off of it again in the future if she feels the need to.  

I have the feeling that the only role a borderline can maintain is as the mistress to a psychopath. While the psychopaths main squeeze is a codependent.  The psychopath will constantly find new main squeezes to be the new source of energy for them to feed off of.  The psychopath male is the vampire and the borderline female is the succubi. 
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« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2014, 03:05:30 PM »

I have the feeling that the only role a borderline can maintain is as the mistress to a psychopath. While the psychopaths main squeeze is a codependent.  The psychopath will constantly find new main squeezes to be the new source of energy for them to feed off of.  The psychopath male is the vampire and the borderline female is the succubi.  

Borderline Personality Disorder is a mental condiciton where people experience reckless / impulsive, dysregulated emotions, unstable interpersonal relationships.

Sociopath is a medical condition that results in people's way of thinking/ dealing with situations / perceving situations and become destructive. A sociopath has difficulty distinguishing between right and wrong.

Blimblam,

I'm having difficulties understanding and maybe you can clarify? I've seen your posts across the boards with similar messages. I'm co-dependent and I was enmeshed with a PD. I'm neither a sociopath or psychopath. Granted yes, a PD can attach to another PD and that is correct but are you saying that a borderline enmeshes / attaches with sociopaths? Vampires and sucubbi?
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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2014, 03:15:06 PM »

Well my theory is this, and really it's not even my theory it's based of of psychologist Carl Jung and Joseph campbell. That archetypes have existed for thousands of years to describe aspects of the human psyche. Over time we create new labels to describe conditions of the psyche that have always existed. It's sort of like Joseph Campbell and his there's of mythology are always the same story of the hero and they encounter the same types of obstacles.  Even the different types of borderlines types Are named after existing archetypes from stories.  

I think vampires and succubi are prexisting archetypes for these types of PDs.  So if we look at the relationships from these mythologies and think it can shine light how the relationship dynamics of these people work.  

Think about the Greek myth the oddysy and the sirens and the witch.  The phrase a wolf in sheeps clothing from little red riding hood.  Even the labels they use in psychology today are often rooted in mythology.

It makes me think if that phrase, " there is nothing new under the sun"

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« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2014, 03:34:45 PM »

I have the feeling that the only role a borderline can maintain is as the mistress to a psychopath. While the psychopaths main squeeze is a codependent.  The psychopath will constantly find new main squeezes to be the new source of energy for them to feed off of.  The psychopath male is the vampire and the borderline female is the succubi.  

Borderline Personality Disorder is a mental condiciton where people experience reckless / impulsive, dysregulated emotions, unstable interpersonal relationships.

Sociopath is a medical condition that results in people's way of thinking/ dealing with situations / perceving situations and become destructive. A sociopath has difficulty distinguishing between right and wrong.

Blimblam,

I'm having difficulties understanding and maybe you can clarify? I've seen your posts across the boards with similar messages. I'm co-dependent and I was enmeshed with a PD. I'm neither a sociopath or psychopath. Granted yes, a PD can attach to another PD and that is correct but are you saying that a borderline enmeshes / attaches with sociopaths? Vampires and sucubbi?

Blimblam, i think i may get what you are saying to a certain degree? It sounds like you are saying that a pwBPD is seeking someone to fulfill an unrealistic, immature fantasy. And that a socio/psychopath is a person who would willingly do this for a pwBPD to take advantage of them.

A few thoughts on this--I kind of had these thoughts myself. I thought, OK so this pwBPD exists and they will cheat/lie/abuse to keep their fantasy world alive. But it would be so easy for a person to exploit this need in them with a higher level of cheat/lie/abuse -- is this striking a chord?

As far as the socio/psychopath, I think you're talking about a Romeo Pimp. These low-lifes create the fantasy that they are sweet, passionate and caring partners to young girls before revealing their sadistic and violent side to make the young girl into profitable prostitutes:

www.alameda.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/so-young-oaklands-romeo-pimps-lure-teen-girls

Romeo Pimps are a serious threat with sex trafficking of young girls (as well as "Gorilla Pimps", yet this type is easy to spot since they simply use violence and threats... . their manipulation is more obvious than Romeo type).

Here's the thing to think about though -- we have a tendency to want to think our ex's are stupid when they aren't. If your exes are being pimped out by sociopaths, then ok that's where she's at. If she's not though--then she's a survivor and in fact, she's the one doing the pimping :-)

And you also have to look at your own pain from the frustration and betrayal of these women. Is it possible some part of you wants to see your ex get completely lost in a r/s with a sociopath as payback and validation for what they put you through? i'm not saying this in an accusatory tone i had a lot of these thoughts too as bad as they are.

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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2014, 03:41:17 PM »

I see where you are coming from. 

And no I don't want payback. I just wish she could see and understand I still want to protect her from these narcisists.  But I noticed that she willing submits to them. Her female narcissist friend brought a lot of clarity on this for me.  And how when I upset the narcissist how she would hurt me through my BPD ex. 
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« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2014, 03:58:46 PM »

The strange thing is my need to want to protect her keeps me under her spell. I am trying to see things as they are to be able to let go.  I think within these myths And stories of archetypes a lot of the dynamics of how these relationships work are revealed. It helps me to understand what happened.  

Think about dragons and dinosaur bones.  Most of these myths are rooted in things that exist today.  

We are all the lead character in our own life. In essence we are our own hero.  Like odysious in the oddysy and these "villains" are metaphors for people that would steal our energy and time to keep us trapped to feed off of us.

I don't see her as evil but rather a tormented soul with a demon inside her.  She often has given me good advice when I tried to seek closure and understanding from her.  When she says things like "you will have to find that for yourself. I can't help you".  This is the truth. She will only complicate me find the center in me chew it up and leave.  Because I have a center while she does not.  My demon inside me is the codependent who masochistcly comes back for more.  If I had no demon if I was healthy I would have left a long time ago or not ignored the red flags In the beginning.  Or throughout the relationship.
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« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2014, 04:14:42 PM »

I see where you are coming from.

And no I don't want payback. I just wish she could see and understand I still want to protect her from these narcisists.  But I noticed that she willing submits to them. Her female narcissist friend brought a lot of clarity on this for me.  And how when I upset the narcissist how she would hurt me through my BPD ex.

The strange thing is my need to want to protect her keeps me under her spell. I am trying to see things as they are to be able to let go.  I think within these myths And stories of archetypes a lot of the dynamics of how these relationships work are revealed. It helps me to understand what happened.

Think about dragons and dinosaur bones.  Most of these myths are rooted in things that exist today.

We are all the lead character in our own life. In essence we are our own hero.  Like odysious in the oddysy and these "villains" are metaphors for people that would steal our energy and time to keep us trapped to feed off of us.

I'm sorry. I understand Blimblam, you want to rescue / protect her from pitfalls of narcisisist / sociopaths ?

Do you have a thread somewhere explaining your backstory? What happened between the two of you, your history together? What are the players? Maybe I missed it.

I've heard you talk a lot about her, I understand in this context a little about you now. You love her and you are trying to protect her.
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« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2014, 04:23:34 PM »

I just want myself back.  To be free from this pain.  I'll explain my story soon.  I'm on an iPhone right now. 

I want to let this go.  Part of me the demon or addict wants to protect her and save her and for the fantasy to work. 

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« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2014, 05:08:08 PM »

I just want myself back.  To be free from this pain.  I'll explain my story soon.  I'm on an iPhone right now. 

I want to let this go.  Part of me the demon or addict wants to protect her and save her and for the fantasy to work. 

I'm sorry to hear the pain that you are in. It's tough. A break-up from a borderline is  such a painful experience, you may be suddenly cut out of their lives or "split black" your name is smeared to family and friends and his/her actions are projected on you and there might of been an exit affair or infidelity. You can get yourself back Blimblam by detaching. Explain when it's convenient for you, but it helps to know your backstory for the community to help.
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« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2014, 05:08:35 PM »

so my thinking is this.

my desire for her to have a loyal honest relationship is my own need.  She recognizes this and wanted to keep me around so she tried to be this person for me and ended up resenting me for it. So, I was needy.  She wasn't being true to herself in this. So, she discarded me. She wants to have a harem to triangulate with and a main person to have her fantasy with. This is who she is and I can not change it.

She seems to be submissive to narcisissts. On the extreme end of narcissism is the sociopath. Sociopaths and narcisissts create a fantasy of who they want to be perceived as and a borderline can give them the NS of validation they need.  But eventually the borderline can possibly be too needy for the sociopath to want to deal with.  So, a relationship where the narcissist and the borderline as the mistress created the triangle they create anyways.  The borderline in her neediness will find nons to leach energy off of and the narcissist or sociopath will find nons to leach of as well. I don't think the Narcisist borderline relationship would work on its own because neither of them can provide that genuine creative energy they need to feed off of.
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« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2014, 08:57:30 PM »

I just took the depression test found in the links in the right and Im in extreme depression... . great  

really this girl brought the absolute worst out of me! It shocks myself even.
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« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2014, 10:41:43 PM »

blimblam you are mentioning narcissists and sociopaths a lot. just so we understand a bit more, how do you know that your ex is involved with narcissists and/or sociopaths? have these men/women been diagnosed as such? do you know of their diagnosis or behavior beyond anything she may have said herself? i'm just trying to understand what qualifies her other partners as having PDs also, and how you came to know this.
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« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2014, 11:55:10 PM »

blimblam you are mentioning narcissists and sociopaths a lot. just so we understand a bit more, how do you know that your ex is involved with narcissists and/or sociopaths? have these men/women been diagnosed as such? do you know of their diagnosis or behavior beyond anything she may have said herself? i'm just trying to understand what qualifies her other partners as having PDs also, and how you came to know this.

Ive hung out with her female friend enough to know.  Inittially she didn't like me because she knew I saw through her.

As for her exs I have met a few of them.  there are two who I have seen the look in their eyes, and I felt that dead emptiness.  Also a bunch of stuff I sent her in messages on facebook like photos or things I talked about I looked at his FB page and shortly after the message all of a sudden shortly after that date he would have somehow one uped me with a photo he found on the internet  of the content matter I brought up.  All her exs know her password.

Also the things those guys did like their stories were all like premeditated Triangulations and all the things insiduas traits of the cluster B.  Listening to any of them talk I could just smell bullish. Just so many red flags one after another. These guys were obvious scumbags. The people I met that were in relationships with them were completely screwed over.

The two I never met Her dad Hated them.  I saw their photos the dead empty look was very obvious.  Like chills down my spine obvious. My half brother I grew up with is a narcissistic sociopath I know the look well.  The stories her dad told me of the behaviors they pulled were just so wrong on so many levels. The stories she told me of them she had not painted them black but was just wrong they were leaching lying stealing cheating thieves. With no regard to the path of destruction they made.

Some narcissists and sociopaths are very obvious. I really can not stand narcissistic personalities It triggers something in me to want to tell them off and expose them.  Every word that comes out of their mouth is just so fake, manipulative and empty. When someone is obviously selfish It really bothers me. The virtues I admire in people are above all humbleness, authenticity, and compassion.

I think its just when a woman validates me the way a borderline waif can I just become blinded. I think something about the pity complex activates codepent traits in me, if they deliver it the right way.

In fact in my family My dad will often joke to me that we are the only normal ones.  He actually really means it though.  My step mother is narcissistic but not npd but her empathy level is low, as well as her intelligence.
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« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2014, 12:17:08 AM »

i see. also it's good that you are able to recognize certain aspects of yourself that get you involved with BPD waif types (validation/codepence/etc).

When someone is obviously selfish It really bothers me. The virtues I admire in people are above all humbleness, authenticity, and compassion.

there is a wise saying that maturity comes when we realize the world is the way it is, not the way we want it to be.

i think we should look at who your ex really is, as far as her behaviors and history. ok, so let's say she's a waif BPD, we can put that to the side. from your description she also keeps company with exactly the type of selfish/narcissistic people that drive you crazy. she doesn't do this because she's 'good but broken', she's doing this because she wants to. apparently she's had a good many people like this in her life and sounds like she's going right back to them. if she's so comfortable around this type then obviously she is very much like them. perhaps she doesn't have the blank stare of a sociopath but something in it apparently pulls her to it as strong as you are pulled into her BPD waif-ness.

in short--it's common for us to speak about all the negative aspects of your ex's past/future partners. but my question is, ok, so then what does that make your ex? treat yourself tenderly, but remove that mask and yank that pedestal from under your perception of this woman.

she loves narcs/sociopaths and they make your skin crawl. she is the way she is, not the way we want her to be.
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« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2014, 12:33:44 AM »

i see. also it's good that you are able to recognize certain aspects of yourself that get you involved with BPD waif types (validation/codepence/etc).

When someone is obviously selfish It really bothers me. The virtues I admire in people are above all humbleness, authenticity, and compassion.

what does that make your ex? treat yourself tenderly, but remove that mask and yank that pedestal from under your perception of this woman.

she loves narcs/sociopaths and they make your skin crawl. she is the way she is, not the way we want her to be.

this is what I am coming to terms with.  I went through a long drawn out 5 month internal debate about all this in my mind. Her gas lighting me the entire time.  Thinking to myself birds of a feather flock together.

A few weeks back I decided I couldn't trust her and if anything she has gotten to be a much worst at everything I dislike about her.  So I ended it a week before we were to go to a music festival together sleep in the same tent all that.  I had heavy regrets but My gut just told me.  There were so many times my gut told me the truth and she would gas light me.  The mistake was a very human error, wanting to trust someone you love and care about. 
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« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2014, 12:37:30 AM »

My ex was desperate to be loved, to feel love. He pushed so hard for it, gloating in glee when I said I love you back. He was ecstatic. But in the end, yes I was " so desperate to be loved" " so desperate for a relationship" " needy" " smothering me" very confusing and sad.
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