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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: You will start to attract much healthier people into you life when you do this.  (Read 6005 times)
fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2014, 09:36:32 AM »

Excerpt
When a fisherman throws his line into the water with a hook and worm on the line a group of fish will see it. Most of those fish say "that doesn't look right I'm going to stay away from that"... .but a few of the fish will say "Now that is a nice worm!... yes something isn't quite right about it but I don't have any other worms around at the moment so I'll go for it" ... .BAM! fish caught!

I'm not angry at the fisherman... he was just doing what he does. I'm not angry at myself as I was just an unknowing fish.

What I am fascinated with is WHY was I one of the few fish that took the bait when all the others around were staying well clear.

Excerpt
My edges have softened since starting the post in that pwBPD don't smash through our boundaries, they are Trojan horses. They trick us into letting them inside and before we know it we are under attack. They are tearing us apart from the inside.

But we cant be fooled twice! Sure we took some collateral damage but they didn't defeat us. They only made us stronger and now we are wise to the Trojan horse.

We will still let people in to our fortress but now we recognize the enemy, now the people inside will only be with us and not against us.

Nice metaphors Visitor, and useful.

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« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2014, 09:46:47 AM »

My edges have softened since starting the post in that pwBPD don't smash through our boundaries, they are Trojan horses. They trick us into letting them inside and before we know it we are under attack. They are tearing us apart from the inside.

There is some validity to the Trojan horse metaphor form the recipients point of view... .not so much from the partners side.

The question is, is what we "feel" actually what is happening?  We often criticize pwBPD saying feelings = facts, but we can do that too.

So, yes, it is like a Trojan horse - what we see is not what we get.

And no, it's not like a Trojan horse - its not a plot or a plan - its almost the opposite - unbridled over responsive emotion.
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« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2014, 10:09:29 AM »

My edges have softened since starting the post in that pwBPD don't smash through our boundaries, they are Trojan horses. They trick us into letting them inside and before we know it we are under attack. They are tearing us apart from the inside.

So, yes, it is like a Trojan horse - what we see is not what we get.

And no, it's not like a Trojan horse - its not a plot or a plan - its almost the opposite - unbridled over responsive emotion.

I guess it's down to the individual. I've heard cases of pwBPD keeping their emotions intact for long enough until they have a foot in the door and even until they are married!

Do you give an validity to this?

My ex certainly kept a lid on things until we were further down the line. Although, maybe they don't have such insecurities so soon in the relationship as there is a honeymoon period. I know for sure she used crocodile tears a lot to control things at the beginning.







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« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2014, 10:44:13 AM »

At the core of BPD, according to some researchers, are two things, fear of rejection, and diminished executive control (impulsive without considering the consequences).

Generally, people with BPD are not schemers.  If anything they live in the moment.

And we all idealize and mirror and suppress (undesirables) in the beginning of a relationship. These are not BPD traits - they are human traits.  A person with BPD, because of their core, tends to be more extreme.

In general, people with BPD are weak.  Not strong.  Not clever.

What makes it so hard for many of us, is we let the weaker person drive the bus.

Understanding this really helps us look back and understand what happened.  The belief in monsters often make this all a confusing blur.

Weakness is one thing to worry about in a relationship.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2014, 10:54:38 AM »

My edges have softened since starting the post in that pwBPD don't smash through our boundaries, they are Trojan horses. They trick us into letting them inside and before we know it we are under attack. They are tearing us apart from the inside.

So, yes, it is like a Trojan horse - what we see is not what we get.

And no, it's not like a Trojan horse - its not a plot or a plan - its almost the opposite - unbridled over responsive emotion.

I guess it's down to the individual. I've heard cases of pwBPD keeping their emotions intact for long enough until they have a foot in the door and even until they are married!

Do you give an validity to this?

My ex certainly kept a lid on things until we were further down the line. Although, maybe they don't have such insecurities so soon in the relationship as there is a honeymoon period. I know for sure she used crocodile tears a lot to control things at the beginning.

Yes, metaphors can be useful, but they have limitations; The Trojan Horse was full of soldiers with malicious intent, which doesn't necessarily apply to our exes.  Borderlines are terrified of abandonment, the core of the disorder, while also being sure it will happen, and may have many references to support that belief.  Anyone wired like that will do whatever they can to avoid that abandonment, including presenting a false self that is hopefully attractive to the current attachment, but as with all false selves, the cracks begin to show, along with the feelings of engulfment that closeness creates, so at some point the wheels come off and the person we're with hardly resembles who we thought they were.

And as the tools, the defense mechanisms, start to get used more and more, the abuse, projection, devaluation, we have a decision to make.  :)o we stay and put up with it, become obsessed with how it 'used to be' and fight to get back there, or do we realize things for what they are and act accordingly.  Well, that depends, on our own wiring and mental health; some realize early things are amiss and terminate, others blame themselves and stay, accelerating the dysfunction.  Me, I stayed for a while and then bailed to avoid pain.  Back to metaphors, hopefully I'm much better at spotting hooks in that bait today... .
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« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2014, 11:20:17 AM »

Anyone wired like that will do whatever they can to avoid that abandonment

So true. And this is one of the most often misunderstood aspects of BPD.

When you are deadly afraid of something, you take extreme measures to protect yourself from it - it's self preservation.  

In the case of abandonment, there is nothing anyone can do to prevent it from happening - it happens to the best of us - so the way to avoid the hurt it is too keep the walls up - don't let anyone totally have your heart.  Right?

So while there is often a sort of reckless abandon in the honeymoon stage, when things start to settle down and risk of abandonment becomes visible, the walls go up and the need for escape hatches appears.

What do we do?  We often react to the distancing by withdrawing or being hurtful.

And the down cycle starts.  Both partners protecting themselves... .and reacting to each protecting themselves.
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« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2014, 11:38:46 AM »

I have a few "differential diagnoses" here but am admittedly not the expert. My T and others close to my situation FIRMLY believe my pwBPD also is NPD and most certainly ASPD, as he has a long history of fraud charges and very little empathy. Having known other pw pd's, I know he cycled through the schemas exactly like pwBPD--my point is lots of pwBPD have co-occurring pd's or mental illnesses, addictions, etc. So, while pwBPD follow a pattern of scehmas, there are differences. My exBPDbf is EXTREMELY clever: high level developer but is indeed weak in many areas. In some ways, we seemed like a perfect fit. I am very strong, very logical/strategic, and (I thought) very stable--right up until I have experienced an entire month of silent treatment and am on very shaky grown: perhaps shakier than his at this time. And I do believe, as this thread started, my nemesis was my lack of boundaries (coupled with my love of this man) who reminded me so much of my late dad. Like the brilliant programmer that he is, he found my vulnerability; wrote the code; and only NC is going to get me strong enough to tackle the virus I contracted (more metaphors :-)
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« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2014, 11:41:51 AM »

Thanks Heal and Skip

If only I knew all of this. I feel so sorry for her. She has so many failed relationships and all she wanted was for us to work. Her neediness pushed me away and I never did commit to her. No wonder she went into horrible rages at the smallest thing.

The more I learn about this horrible affliction the more I isolate between anger and just feeling sorry for the poor girl. Its not her fault she has BPD. She has so much love to give. You're right about it being a weakness and people tend to tread on her throughout life. She always just tries to do the right thing.

She has split me black at the moment. Should I stay no contact or talk to her about it?
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2014, 12:53:21 PM »

Excerpt
Its not her fault she has BPD.

 

You're right, it's not her fault, and on the other hand she is still responsible for her actions.  One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.  There is no 'cure' for BPD, the disorder was hardwired into her brain before she was old enough to exercise executive control, but as we know there are therapies that are effective, although it's a tough road and takes a lot of work and commitment.  If something isn't working, trying a different approach is better than making the same mistakes over and over.

Excerpt
She has split me black at the moment. Should I stay no contact or talk to her about it?

Up to you, but be clear what your intentions are.  If you're still emotionally enmeshed you could create more pain for both of you, and most of us aren't trained therapists who could make an impact.  Also, telling someone they have a mental illness is not easy to hear, for anyone, and may likely result in her labeling you the mentally ill one, which gets no one anywhere. 
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Do. Or do not. There is no try.


« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2014, 01:05:49 PM »

Splitting is a coping mechanism that is helping her deal with the relationship loss -- so while I think it's good not to take it personally, we should also be careful not to completely sway the other way in this.

We can't really go from detaching from the relationship to picking up the phone and talking about how it all went wrong. Smiling (click to insert in post)

I think what Skip and heel are suggesting is that you understand what happened in your relationship. Her role, your role. Not take one piece of the puzzle and think that it's enough to solve all the relationship problems you experienced.  

I think a better idea might be to start taking your own inventory of what you've learned from all of this... .using a more "grey" strategy. Anger and pity are two pretty polar emotions on the spectrum, no? It sounds like you're still pretty emotionally invested in this?  
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  "What I want is what I've not got, and what I need is all around me." ~Dave Matthews

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« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2014, 01:13:43 PM »

The more I learn about this horrible affliction... .

I wouldn't be hasty about anything right now - there is a lot more to learn - about her and about yourself.  I remember you mentioning that she could really get angry and that you weren't the best boyfriend.

I'm really not too fussed about talking to this girl again but I would appreciate any feedback just out of interest.

BPD aside, if there was a lot of conflict, your interest level was marginal, and she walked away - is this worth pursuing or is this mostly a healing /learning journey at this point.

There is a lot we can learn from this type of relationship that can benefit our future.

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