Can you ever forgive your BPD ex now you know they were ill?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

[Heartbroken Eagle]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

[Deeno02]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

Everything on here is for my own use. My use so I dont make the same mistakes again... .ever. She's on her own, on her own accord, on her own will, on her own chaos. I can forgive, but I will never forget... .

[Turkish]

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

[guy4caligirl]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

Look at it this way , are you miserable without her ?

Do you miss being with her ?

Do you accept the fact that she's never going to change ?

Are you willing to open a new page and forgive her cause she didn't know what she was doing like (Jesus on the cross)

Did I help you ?

[Deeno02]

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

Nope. Im only guilty of loving someone fully, completely. I have nothing to be ashamed of any longer. It was her's to do with what she wanted. She chose to turn me and my kids black. So be it. It hurts, boy does it ever, but I gave all I could and gave some more and was rejected. Her reality, Im just living in it.

[clydegriffith]

Personally, i can't forgive. I understand that this is an illness but it's not so far out of your control that time after time you cave to your impulses no matter how dire the consiquences may be. My life was turned upside down for three years and while i'm much better now, i am still trying to get my life together almost two years later.

[Heartbroken Eagle]

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

The truth is I don't know... .

I still have mixed feelings when I see her. Always end up in tears in the car, remembering what she did. Desperately need to move on, hence if I could forgive her maybe I would get on with my life in a better place.

But I just can't. The pain is still raw... .

[ATLandon]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

For me, forgiving starts with me and ends with me. My wife likely has a personality disorder. It is very likely it is BPD. However, my need forgive her has more to do with me own well-being rather than her personal illness. In fact, my ability to forgive her will be in spite of her BPD. We're all human and we all make mistakes. Some people are ill  and suffering(especially some more than others) but we all need love and compassion at the end of the day, regardless of whatever is afflicting us. Well... .that's how I deal with forgiving people anyways.

[Heartbroken Eagle]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

Look at it this way , are you miserable without her ?

Do you miss being with her ?

Do you accept the fact that she's never going to change ?

Are you willing to open a new page and forgive her cause she didn't know what she was doing like (Jesus on the cross)

Did I help you ?

Fact is, I'm miserable because of her, I don't miss her but miss being a family if that makes sense?

And sadly she will never change!

[Mutt]

But I just can't. The pain is still raw... .

Wait until you're a little further down the road. I forgave mine. I had to detach, grieve and look inside.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Bak86]

I forgive her, but i do not forget. I will never forget.

[Tincup]

I think with time I forgave myself.  I don't really think of it as forgiving her, more as forgiving me.  There are certain personality traits and behaviors that I just will no longer allow in my life, she just happened to have most of those traits and behaviors... .

[maxen]

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

i do, a bit.

or, while i can forgive what she did (which was pretty bad, though in another way pathetic, and certainly due to the BPD), i cannot forgive the sadistic and violating arrogance she displayed about what she did. some little ass in my head tells me i'm supposed to, though.

[Raybo48]

I can see forgiving mine down the road once I have fully recovered and don't have any feelings for her at all, but right now? Absolutely not. 

With that being said I already have the utmost compassion for her alcoholism because that is a BEAST of a disease that can bring the strongest to their knees.

[Heartbroken Eagle]

But I just can't. The pain is still raw... .

Wait until you're a little further down the road. I forgave mine. I had to detach, grieve and look inside.

I think I'm currently at that stage... .

[expos]

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

No.  I think that's why it's hard to move on for a lot of us. 

This will come off very harsh, but do rape victims feel sympathy or forgiveness for their attackers? 

The more I read about abuse, the more I find out that it's very hard to forgive 100%.   

[Mutt]

We're talking about different things expo. Rape is carried out by physical force, coercion, incapacitation, underage and abuse of authority.

I gave this woman everything and rarely said “no”.

What kept you from saying "no" and gave everything to your ex? You lacked boundaries.

[expos]

What kept you from saying "no" and gave everything to your ex? You lacked boundaries.

Just because I didn't say "no" has nothing to do with boundaries.  I said "yes" a lot because I cared about her and wanted her to be happy - but I still had my boundaries.  She even said in marriage counseling that "I wore the pants" in the relationship.  Whenever I started defending myself, her behavior worsened.  Putting up boundaries doesn't cure the disease. I know that you know this. 

[SickofMe]

Yes, but not for his sake--he doesn't need my forgiveness, obviously, since he's not asked for it.

I kind of think of forgiveness as the opposite of resentment.  I still feel resentment, but I can't wait until I don't because I know it's hurting me.  I don't want to let this relationship taint me.

Acceptance leads to forgiveness but it takes time and it's inauthentic to just say it if you don't mean it.  I think when we love ourselves more, we are more able to let go of resentment.

[imstronghere2]

Nope.  Not now, not ever.  I don't give a sh*& what the excuse is.  She was a 43 year old adult female that knew right from wrong.  She abandoned her family, her home, her children, her animals.   Everything.  She lied, cheated, deceived, disrespected me to an extreme, manipulated constantly, used, abused, betrayed and abandoned everything.

Nope.   Not now, not ever.

Let God forgive her.  That's the only thing that can possibly be capable of it.

[bungenstein]

Personally I think it is unhealthy to forgive them.

Mentally ill, disordered, out of control, delusional, whatever, it doesn't matter.

Where restitution is impossible, forgiveness is impossible. People need to earn your forgiveness.

They have done huge amounts of harm, and if they can't do anything to make right what they've done, then its extremely bad for us just to offer forgiveness, to an extent by doing this we are still being exploited, still being abused.

We got into these relationships by having unhealthy boundaries and a lack of knowledge about abusive people. We are have learnt a lot, put it into effect now. Unless they can go into therapy, cure themselves, and then offer you the relationship you worked so hard for, then do not forgive them. I think we owe that to ourselves.

[Raybo48]

Personally I think it is unhealthy to forgive them.

Mentally ill, disordered, out of control, delusional, whatever, it doesn't matter.

Where restitution is impossible, forgiveness is impossible. People need to earn your forgiveness.

They have done huge amounts of harm, and if they can't do anything to make right what they've done, then its extremely bad for us just to offer forgiveness, in an extent by doing this we are still being exploited, still being abused.

We got into these relationships by having unhealthy boundaries and a lack of knowledge about abusive people. We are have learnt a lot, put it into effect now. Unless they can go into therapy, cure themselves, and then offer you the relationship you worked so hard for, then do not forgive them. I think we owe that to ourselves.

Can't argue here and lets face it they never want to earn anything... .

[Mutt]

I see my ex as a person that gave me an incredible life changing experience in self-discovery. Through the most difficult life event I found my true self. I had been carrying so much shame, guilt from life experiences that were not in my control. I had low self worth, low self esteem and it wasn't until I met her and breaking up, grieving and detaching that I found me. A person that I hadn't validated, or loved because of the environment I grew up in. I was unknowingly seeking that attention, love and validation in others. I think that for some people on the board that we get don't many chances like this in life. I learned that I need to love me. That's why I forgive her.

“True forgiveness is when you can say, "Thank you for that experience. - Oprah Winfrey

[Infared]

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

No... .I feel like I have to forgive myself for ever getting into a relationship with her.

I was damaged so badly emotionally I don't ever want to see her or talk to her again.

It would just be more lies and abuse. Disease or not.

[going places]

I will forgive him for what he did to me and the kids... .

Because forgiveness is NOT for him, but for me.

To release ME from the prison of anger, bitterness, and bottled up rage.

Once I forgive, completely, I will be free.

Make NO mistake, forgiveness is NOT pretending it didn't happen, or making excuses for why it did happen.

Forgiveness is NOT his 'free pass' to treat me like garbage.

I can completely forgive him AND never talk to him again in my life.

And that would be wonderful!

[StayOrLeave15]

Right now I cannot forgive.  But I guess that means I still care and am still in pain.

My therapist says that I will get better and at some point down the road I will be sitting there talking to him and won't even think about her. 

After our first real breakup and recycle I did actually forgive her for everything she had done to me, and these were really horrible things.  But part of that forgiveness was because I thought she had actually changed.  Pure delusion.  After the new idealization ended and she went back to her old ways and destroyed me all the old anger came back.  So I guess I had never really forgiven her.  And right now I can't do so. 

[parisian]

Personally I need to forgive and have self-compassion to let go, to move on and to recover. It's important to me to have self-integrity and show respect, even if she can't. It's not about her but about what I need to do to feel good about myself. For me, not forgiving means to continue to be bitter and upset, to hang onto that, to let it remain in my mind and thoughts. To forgive for me is to be free to focus and think about better things.

There are of course things that I *wish* were different. Whilst in the relationship I *wish* she could have been a healthy partner. We all do. It was not until after we broke that I realised what she had, and then it finally all made sense.

If she was aware of her illness during our relationship, and I suspect there was some knowledge from her as she is intelligent and very high-functioning (very defensive about her 'flaws', use of language such as 'acting out' and 'codependent' - these are words I have never heard from any other partner in any other relationship), I am disappointed she wasn't able to make me aware. With some knowledge I could have handled herself and myself differently. It is a self-fullfilling prophecy that the very thing she sought to hide from me (more than likely as a result of fear of abandonement), was of course, the very thing that did cause me to her abandon her in the end. Would I have wanted to stay in the relationship if I did know? Possibly not knowing what I do now (hindsight, always immensely valuable ), but I definitely would have been better prepared to deal with it rather than

just sit back and wonder what was the number plate of the truck that just hit me.

Whether you can forgive I think is an issue about your own values. I know now she was ill and couldn't help some of the things she did or said. That doesn't make what she did any less hurtful or right, but I realise she wasn't being deliberate about it. It was just how she was.

So yes, I can forgive her. Having had that relationship was one of the most difficult times of my life. But it taught me immensely useful things about myself. Whilst it was sad and hurtful and upsetting, it allowed me to learn and grow and take so much from that. It allowed me to be able to notch that up to life experience and know if there are difficult times in my life in future (which should always be expected), I can compare them to being in that relationship with her, knowing I survivied and got over that, and giving myself a bit of a confidence boost that 'this too shall pass'.

[Hurtbeyondrepair27]

Yes. because i have to. i was afraid to forgive bc i was worried it would make me go back to him... .

but i realize it is how he must cope. he must hate me completely so that he can feel nothing for me. it hurts more than anything i can think of right now. but its my fault for allowing him to do it. i chose to be with him despite all his issues and red flags. ill know better next time. its hard bc a part of me wants to be there for him... even tho he has hurt me so greatly. probably my co dependancy.

yes i forgive him.

[Infared]

I will forgive him for what he did to me and the kids... .

Because forgiveness is NOT for him, but for me.

To release ME from the prison of anger, bitterness, and bottled up rage.

Once I forgive, completely, I will be free.

Make NO mistake, forgiveness is NOT pretending it didn't happen, or making excuses for why it did happen.

Forgiveness is NOT his 'free pass' to treat me like garbage.

I can completely forgive him AND never talk to him again in my life.

And that would be wonderful!

I don't know that I can ever do that. Without the person showing ANY remorse or even the slightest  sign that they treated you so poorly, forgiveness is very difficult. I have gotten to the point of acceptance from coming to this site and doing a lot of reading. I can finally accept that this person is very ill. There is no other explanation for their behavior. That amount of self-centeredness and vindictiveness is difficult to actually comprehend and finally accept that it exists.  I now know that it does. I lived through it. Maybe some day I can come to peace with it and forgive... .but I just can never have any contact with that person again. I just couldn't take that chance. They most likely have not changed and I can find no reason, if I love myself, to interact with them. The emotional damage was great.

[peiper]

Sure,  I'd forgive a rabid dog for biting me. Its just sick. That doesn't  mean it should be out there on the street biting everyone it can sink its teeth into. Same difference. The court system needs to educate themselves on BPD !

[slimmiller]

For the most part I have forgiven mine. Simply due to the fact carrying the burden of hating her/what she did is not worth it.

Buddha said hating someone is like holding a hot rock wanting to burn another with it.

But beyond that, I am not enough of a self effacing Sado to simply pretend what she did and how she is is ok. To really love myself and take care of myself I am p&$sed. I dont care that she is mentally ill, it is still not ok to deviously hurt and abuse like she did. Period. I know many do not share my view and especially the few professional that do understand the disorder coddle her behaviours/actions but thats exactly why it continues to exists in the first place.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me. Its merely my way of dealing with it and yes it is a choice on my part. Its probably the only way I can really move on and protect myself, otherwise she would try and reel me back in

[Infared]

Sure,  I'd forgive a rabid dog for biting me. Its just sick. That doesn't  mean it should be out there on the street biting everyone it can sink its teeth into. Same difference. The court system needs to educate themselves on BPD !

Well... .the courts just don't care... .and they need to start with dogs first. I got attacked by a pit bull last year and the court system did nothing... .slap on the wrist... .The owner was walking down the street with the dog without a leash days later... .and it was unlicensed and had no shots at the time of the attack... .and in his mind... "I" was the problem.  I was minding my own business in the back of my garage with my back to the door when the beast attacked me... .wait... .this is starting to sound familiar. 

[Infared]

For the most part I have forgiven mine. Simply due to the fact carrying the burden of hating her/what she did is not worth it.

Buddha said hating someone is like holding a hot rock wanting to burn another with it.

But beyond that, I am not enough of a self effacing Sado to simply pretend what she did and how she is is ok. To really love myself and take care of myself I am p&$sed. I dont care that she is mentally ill, it is still not ok to deviously hurt and abuse like she did. Period. I know many do not share my view and especially the few professional that do understand the disorder coddle her behaviours/actions but thats exactly why it continues to exists in the first place.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me. Its merely my way of dealing with it and yes it is a choice on my part. Its probably the only way I can really move on and protect myself, otherwise she would try and reel me back in

I agree with you. For me it's an emotional struggle moving forward. My problem is knowing that that is what is out there. This person was so emotionally cruel that I just don't ever want to take the chance of going through that again.  I just focus on other things and joys in life. If a woman shows an interest in me... .I just turn and walk away.  No way.

... .and if I am loving me ... .there is absolute NC with that viper who attacked. Absolutely NC, in any way, shape or form.

[camuse]

I do forgive mine, I feel very sad for her. As Skip sometimes reminds us, we played our part in the r/s, enabling them as co-dependants. We didn't help them, they didn't help us, it was a toxic bond. My ex is what she is, and I am what I am. Difference is, I can self-reflect and change, and she cannot. So I don't hate her, I feel sad for her, but most of all I need to keep away from her and all of her ilk for my own sake.

Hate is pretty pointless really. If I climbed into a lion's dan and got mauled, it would be pretty pointless to hate the lion for being a lion and acting accordingly.

[Lucky One]

For the most part I have forgiven mine. Simply due to the fact carrying the burden of hating her/what she did is not worth it.

Buddha said hating someone is like holding a hot rock wanting to burn another with it.

But beyond that, I am not enough of a self effacing Sado to simply pretend what she did and how she is is ok. To really love myself and take care of myself I am p&$sed. I dont care that she is mentally ill, it is still not ok to deviously hurt and abuse like she did. Period. I know many do not share my view and especially the few professional that do understand the disorder coddle her behaviours/actions but thats exactly why it continues to exists in the first place.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me. Its merely my way of dealing with it and yes it is a choice on my part. Its probably the only way I can really move on and protect myself, otherwise she would try and reel me back in

I agree with you but I'm also aware that others can feel differently.

So we're OK.

[Artisan]

Forgiveness isn't about the other person... .

It's for self-liberation.

Does this mean we forget? No, once bitten ... .5 millions times shy in the case of BPD.

Yet forgiveness seems to be the path to allowing myself to feel alive again, to not be terrified of women, and to allow the dreams and vitality I had before the relationship to return in full.

The relationship was chaotic enough, it lasted its length of time, HOW LONG IT LASTS WITHIN MY MIND, HEART AND SOUL AFTER LEAVING IS UP TO ME.

Forgiveness allows me to move on.

[going places]

Forgiveness isn't about the other person... .

It's for self-liberation.

Does this mean we forget? No, once bitten ... .5 millions times shy in the case of BPD.

Yet forgiveness seems to be the path to allowing myself to feel alive again, to not be terrified of women, and to allow the dreams and vitality I had before the relationship to return in full.

Forgiveness for me is opening the prison door of anger resentment bitterness confusion, and hate... .and letting me walk out of that cell, and shut the door on those consuming emotions.

Forget? No, even if I wanted too... .the scars he placed on my brain won't let me.

BUT

I can manage all of that, when I forgive, let go, and look to the future, and not to the past... .

Sometimes its a minute by minute event (forgiveness) but it's for ME!

[Infared]

   REALLY love everyone's input on this topic... .Assessing the posts is really helping my perspective. THANK YOU ALL!

I have to play devil's advocate with Camuse, though... .

"Hate is pretty pointless really. If I climbed into a lion's dan and got mauled, it would be pretty pointless to hate the lion for being a lion and acting accordingly."

... .no... noo... .I KNOW what a lion is. ... .now there is definitely merit to what you are saying there... .BUT... .I walked into a fragrant flower garden... .where there was a little cuddly kitten that I loved to play with and it with me... .(not to mention the kittens family)... .and then on the spin of a dime ... .I was in a cage with a lion... .

It did a real number on me... .especially trying to make sense out of it... .There just isn't any. Maybe acceptance is as far as I can go... but I walk down the street confused... There is a lion over there... .I better stay away from that... .but is it that cuddly little kitten going to kill me?... .hmmmm... .I just don't know. That's life I guess.

That is how my deep emotional damage occurred. ... .it just made no sense to me, even with my wealth of experience in life... .(that is a polite way to say that I am old )

[mywifecrazy]

An awesome thread and very interesting discussion!

I'm in a Celebrate Recovery group at my church and I'm working on letting go of hate related to my uBPDxw.

Forgiveness for me is all about me! I need to do it to release the hatred that is built up inside of me. Hatred is very powerful and will consume and destroy the person harboring it. It's physically unhealthy as well. The anxiety and stress that comes along with hatred can make one more susceptible to illness as they effect your bodies immune system. Like the previous post so eloquently stated, hatred puts us in a prison cell. It does NOTHING to the person we're hating. My goal in forgiveness is to rid my self of hatred, stress and anxiety... .To free me and to allow me to move forward a much healthier and wiser man. It's all about me, I don't want to be controlled by her anymore!

That being said, Forgiveness doesn't excuse her from her actions, past present and future. That's on her! She has to deal with the consequences of her actions. One consequence is me not talking to her or having her in my life in any way shape or form. Even though we have kids together. That's my healthy boundary and I apologize to no one for it. If she ever decides to change and get help that boundary can be adjusted BY ME. She must prove that she has changed by her actions as her words are meaningless! I leave her up to God. She's his to deal with not me. God grant me the serenity to let go of the things I can't change (uBPDxw) the courage to change the things I can (me) and the wisdom to know the difference.

In the end forgiveness for me means INDIFFERENCE towards my uBPDxw. She just doesn't exist to me good or bad.

MWC... .

[camuse]

 REALLY love everyone's input on this topic... .Assessing the posts is really helping my perspective. THANK YOU ALL!

I have to play devil's advocate with Camuse, though... .

"Hate is pretty pointless really. If I climbed into a lion's dan and got mauled, it would be pretty pointless to hate the lion for being a lion and acting accordingly."

... .no... noo... .I KNOW what a lion is. ... .now there is definitely merit to what you are saying there... .BUT... .I walked into a fragrant flower garden... .where there was a little cuddly kitten that I loved to play with and it with me... .(not to mention the kittens family)... .and then on the spin of a dime ... .I was in a cage with a lion... .

It did a real number on me... .especially trying to make sense out of it... .There just isn't any. Maybe acceptance is as far as I can go... but I walk down the street confused... There is a lion over there... .I better stay away from that... .but is it that cuddly little kitten going to kill me?... .hmmmm... .I just don't know. That's life I guess.

That is how my deep emotional damage occurred. ... .it just made no sense to me, even with my wealth of experience in life... .(that is a polite way to say that I am old )

Fair point

But my kitten does indeed lure me in then bite me from time to time :D

I don't think our exes made a conscious decision to hurt us so much, they probably don't understand why we feel so bad, why we cant just walk away as they do. They don't empathise or experience these feelings, so how can they understand?

Maybe I'm wrong and I should wish her as much misery as possible? But what is the point? I was in the relationship voluntarily, at the end of the day. Why bother hating someone who hates themselves more than you ever can?

Ultimately, hate, forgive, get revenge, whatever, it makes no difference - it happened, and all that matters now is what are YOU going to do from now on?

[peiper]

Sure,  I'd forgive a rabid dog for biting me. Its just sick. That doesn't  mean it should be out there on the street biting everyone it can sink its teeth into. Same difference. The court system needs to educate themselves on BPD !

Well... .the courts just don't care... .and they need to start with dogs first. I got attacked by a pit bull last year and the court system did nothing... .slap on the wrist... .The owner was walking down the street with the dog without a leash days later... .and it was unlicensed and had no shots at the time of the attack... .and in his mind... "I" was the problem.  I was minding my own business in the back of my garage with my back to the door when the beast attacked me... .wait... .this is starting to sound familiar. 

That does sound familiar ,, I've still got the bite marks !

[Raybo48]

 REALLY love everyone's input on this topic... .Assessing the posts is really helping my perspective. THANK YOU ALL!

I have to play devil's advocate with Camuse, though... .

"Hate is pretty pointless really. If I climbed into a lion's dan and got mauled, it would be pretty pointless to hate the lion for being a lion and acting accordingly."

... .no... noo... .I KNOW what a lion is. ... .now there is definitely merit to what you are saying there... .BUT... .I walked into a fragrant flower garden... .where there was a little cuddly kitten that I loved to play with and it with me... .(not to mention the kittens family)... .and then on the spin of a dime ... .I was in a cage with a lion... .

It did a real number on me... .especially trying to make sense out of it... .There just isn't any. Maybe acceptance is as far as I can go... but I walk down the street confused... There is a lion over there... .I better stay away from that... .but is it that cuddly little kitten going to kill me?... .hmmmm... .I just don't know. That's life I guess.

That is how my deep emotional damage occurred. ... .it just made no sense to me, even with my wealth of experience in life... .(that is a polite way to say that I am old )

Fair point

But my kitten does indeed lure me in then bite me from time to time :D

I don't think our exes made a conscious decision to hurt us so much, they probably don't understand why we feel so bad, why we cant just walk away as they do. They don't empathise or experience these feelings, so how can they understand?

Maybe I'm wrong and I should wish her as much misery as possible? But what is the point? I was in the relationship voluntarily, at the end of the day. Why bother hating someone who hates themselves more than you ever can?

Ultimately, hate, forgive, get revenge, whatever, it makes no difference - it happened, and all that matters now is what are YOU going to do from now on?

Very valid points you make here and there is no doubt they hate themselves more than anyone hates them.   I personally don't think they remember half the stuff they do.  Some may call it selective memory, but some of the behavior and the outbursts just don't show up on the radar a few days after its done.  I think so much dysfunction is going on in their mind and so many emotions are changing so rapidly there is no way to remember all the stuff that they do.  That compounded by a major addiction like my BPDx has, it's hard not to have a shred of compassion.

I agree with the earlier post... Gotta let the hate go for yourself, not for them.  

[Mutt]

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

No... .I feel like I have to forgive myself for ever getting into a relationship with her.

I was damaged so badly emotionally I don't ever want to see her or talk to her again.

It would just be more lies and abuse. Disease or not.

I will forgive him for what he did to me and the kids... .

Because forgiveness is NOT for him, but for me.

To release ME from the prison of anger, bitterness, and bottled up rage.

Once I forgive, completely, I will be free.

Make NO mistake, forgiveness is NOT pretending it didn't happen, or making excuses for why it did happen.

Forgiveness is NOT his 'free pass' to treat me like garbage.

I can completely forgive him AND never talk to him again in my life.

And that would be wonderful!

I don't know that I can ever do that. Without the person showing ANY remorse or even the slightest  sign that they treated you so poorly, forgiveness is very difficult. I have gotten to the point of acceptance from coming to this site and doing a lot of reading. I can finally accept that this person is very ill. There is no other explanation for their behavior. That amount of self-centeredness and vindictiveness is difficult to actually comprehend and finally accept that it exists.  I now know that it does. I lived through it. Maybe some day I can come to peace with it and forgive... .but I just can never have any contact with that person again. I just couldn't take that chance. They most likely have not changed and I can find no reason, if I love myself, to interact with them. The emotional damage was great.

Sure,  I'd forgive a rabid dog for biting me. Its just sick. That doesn't  mean it should be out there on the street biting everyone it can sink its teeth into. Same difference. The court system needs to educate themselves on BPD !

Well... .the courts just don't care... .and they need to start with dogs first. I got attacked by a pit bull last year and the court system did nothing... .slap on the wrist... .The owner was walking down the street with the dog without a leash days later... .and it was unlicensed and had no shots at the time of the attack... .and in his mind... "I" was the problem.  I was minding my own business in the back of my garage with my back to the door when the beast attacked me... .wait... .this is starting to sound familiar. 

  REALLY love everyone's input on this topic... .Assessing the posts is really helping my perspective. THANK YOU ALL!

I have to play devil's advocate with Camuse, though... .

"Hate is pretty pointless really. If I climbed into a lion's dan and got mauled, it would be pretty pointless to hate the lion for being a lion and acting accordingly."

... .no... noo... .I KNOW what a lion is. ... .now there is definitely merit to what you are saying there... .BUT... .I walked into a fragrant flower garden... .where there was a little cuddly kitten that I loved to play with and it with me... .(not to mention the kittens family)... .and then on the spin of a dime ... .I was in a cage with a lion... .

It did a real number on me... .especially trying to make sense out of it... .There just isn't any. Maybe acceptance is as far as I can go... but I walk down the street confused... There is a lion over there... .I better stay away from that... .but is it that cuddly little kitten going to kill me?... .hmmmm... .I just don't know. That's life I guess.

That is how my deep emotional damage occurred. ... .it just made no sense to me, even with my wealth of experience in life... .(that is a polite way to say that I am old )

Hi Infared,

I'm sorry your struggling with forgiveness and your playing devils advocate as you say. That said, I think that forgiveness is a worthwhile topic of discussion. Perhaps you can start your own thread to explore your struggles?

[fromheeltoheal]

We don't need to forgive our exes.  The best revenge is success, and success is a life well lived.  As we start to shift our focus from the past to the future and from out exes to ourselves, and take steps in the direction of that future, initially as a distraction and a desire for revenge, it stops being a distraction and just becomes our lives.  And as we live life well, newly empowered after graduating BPD school, the emotional energy around our exes and the past fades, so the memory is still there but the emotional energy is gone.  And the memory changes: I no longer see her as a mean, evil, malicious person, I see her as someone who has a very tough road to walk because of the way she's wired and she's doing the best she can with what she has, and what I've learned about the disorder makes all of her behaviors understandable, but it doesn't make them acceptable.

[Aussie JJ]

Hi Infared,

I'm sorry your struggling with forgiveness and your playing devils advocate as you say. That said, I think that forgiveness is a worthwhile topic of discussion. Perhaps you can start your own thread to explore your struggles?

I have a very specific view on this topic.  Please start it up... .   


AJJ. 

[StayOrLeave15]

We don't need to forgive our exes.  The best revenge is success, and success is a life well lived.  As we start to shift our focus from the past to the future and from out exes to ourselves, and take steps in the direction of that future, initially as a distraction and a desire for revenge, it stops being a distraction and just becomes our lives.  And as we live life well, newly empowered after graduating BPD school, the emotional energy around our exes and the past fades, so the memory is still there but the emotional energy is gone.  And the memory changes: I no longer see her as a mean, evil, malicious person, I see her as someone who has a very tough road to walk because of the way she's wired and she's doing the best she can with what she has, and what I've learned about the disorder makes all of her behaviors understandable, but it doesn't make them acceptable.

This is a very insightful post and I really agree.  Rather than taking "revenge" in a malicious way because of the hurt BPDex's have cause we need to focus on bettering ourselves.  It isn't for the purpose of going back and rubbing it in the BPDex's face "Look how great I am doing," but rather for us to move on and be happy in our own lives. 

"Graduating BPD school" - that is a really good catchphrase.  I hope I am on that path to move on with my life. 

[vortex of confusion]

Nope, I have no desire to forgive him. Forgiveness is not something that is on the table for me. I have done quite a bit of reading about forgiving and it all seems like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. In my mind, forgiving somebody almost implies that the behavior was okay. Some things are not okay.

I found this article from Psychology Today that gets at why I have no desire to forgive: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-compassion-chronicles/200803/forgive-or-not-forgive-is-the-question

This paragraph especially:

But as wise as spiritual leaders and therapists are concerning the importance of forgiveness, sometimes forgiveness is not possible. Unfortunately, we have not been given permission to choose not to forgive. It is my belief that forgiveness is not necessary for healing, and in some cases may not be the healthiest thing to do. This is especially true when forgiving is tantamount to giving permission to hurt you again.

[Infared]

Nope, I have no desire to forgive him. Forgiveness is not something that is on the table for me. I have done quite a bit of reading about forgiving and it all seems like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. In my mind, forgiving somebody almost implies that the behavior was okay. Some things are not okay.

I found this article from Psychology Today that gets at why I have no desire to forgive: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-compassion-chronicles/200803/forgive-or-not-forgive-is-the-question

This paragraph especially:

But as wise as spiritual leaders and therapists are concerning the importance of forgiveness, sometimes forgiveness is not possible. Unfortunately, we have not been given permission to choose not to forgive. It is my belief that forgiveness is not necessary for healing, and in some cases may not be the healthiest thing to do. This is especially true when forgiving is tantamount to giving permission to hurt you again.

Yes... .this is how I feel... .  I battle with forgiveness and never talking to someone again.  I conflict with if I forgive, I must interact with the person who I feel attacked me in a totally inappropriate manner. 

At that same time for me... .I feel like I need to protect myself "emotionally".   How do I forgive someone some that I do not feel safe with interacting with in any way.

It is a mental and emotional struggle for me.  I will NOT validate my treatment at this point by putting myself in a vunerable position, which for me would be talking or conversing with this person in any way.   How do I forgive someone who acknowledges no harm done. Someone (although sick) tells lie after lie.  I know it is for me.

I don't think I am holding resentment... .I am just taking care of myself and loving me by simply accepting that this person is who she is (not who I thought she was or who she "tells" me that she is).   This acceptance may have to be enough for me . Janis A. Spring's "How can I forgive you" talks about this very level of acceptance in Part Three of her book.   I immediately identified with what she was describing as I felt that she was putting words to exactly how I feel.

Perhaps someday I can forgive, with no form of contact... I am open to it... .

I see that Mutt has started a new topic which is a continuation of this thread, titled Forgiveness, I think.

[Hope0807]

I do not feel the need to forgive myself for not wanting to forgive my uBPDexh.  I have also been greatly soothed by a number of great reads recently that let me know that forgiveness is a byproduct only after our own healing is complete…and even then, forgiving the other person is not always necessary.  This was extremely helpful for me, since in my case, I need to heal myself and will only be forgiving of myself (for not knowing better how to follow my gutt instincts) and the extent of his sickness and cruelty will not be in receipt of my compassion nor forgiveness. 

Do you feel like you need to forgive yourself for not wanting to forgive her?

Nope. Im only guilty of loving someone fully, completely. I have nothing to be ashamed of any longer. It was her's to do with what she wanted. She chose to turn me and my kids black. So be it. It hurts, boy does it ever, but I gave all I could and gave some more and was rejected. Her reality, Im just living in it.

[myself]

Perhaps someday I can forgive, with no form of contact... I am open to it... .

If it comes to that, great. If not, great.

It's whatever works best for you.

It's in the mind and heart of the beholder.

[Mutt]

I found this article from Psychology Today that gets at why I have no desire to forgive: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-compassion-chronicles/200803/forgive-or-not-forgive-is-the-question

This paragraph especially:

But as wise as spiritual leaders and therapists are concerning the importance of forgiveness, sometimes forgiveness is not possible. Unfortunately, we have not been given permission to choose not to forgive. It is my belief that forgiveness is not necessary for healing, and in some cases may not be the healthiest thing to do. This is especially true when forgiving is tantamount to giving permission to hurt you again.

That's an interesting quote.

What would give permission again if I have boundaries? Knowing what I know now, there are behaviors I don't permit on the self.

Boundaries are to keep the good things in and the bad stuff out.

I have minimal contact with my ex and I keep my distance. What permission does she have to hurt me again if I defend my boundaries?

[hergestridge]

This is such a strange insight for me:

People say that you must forgive. That the hatred and resentment will eat you from the inside and keep you from being happy.

After the breakup from by BPDw I have become more confident in my own feelings. My have come to feel that my resentment towards my ex wife is totally justified and simply natural. It also that way it is probably going to be from now on, even though we have a small child together.

It does not eat me from the inside, and I don't obsess over it at all. I have moved forward with my life and I have absolutely no interest in my ex wife.

Perhaps ironically (or paradoxically?) it is my total resentment for her and decision to therefore ignore her and cut her out of my life that keeps me from getting into conflicts with her.

I know that she is waiting to me to "get over it" and become friendly with her again, but that is not going to happen. It would be bad for me, it would be dishonest and it would be a "cold war" type relationship, which is exactly what we broke up to avoid.

My wife's fantasy is that through breaking up, all the ___ she has subjected to me to over the past 20 years would be history, and we should be friends again. She is so desperate to be forgiven (without asking for forgiveness). And that's how desperate she is to let other people carry her pain.

But I'm having none of it, and it's great!

Resentment does not necessarily destroy your life. It's just what they keep telling you.

[SickofMe]

Perhaps ironically (or paradoxically?) it is my total resentment for her and decision to therefore ignore her and cut her out of my life that keeps me from getting into conflicts with her.

That doesn't sound exactly like resentment, to me.  Sounds more like you have made a firm decision to detach and move on with no more monkey-business.

Resentment (I think, anyhow) is more active and consuming.  I know when I'm feeling resentment, it clouds my judgment and makes me act in ways I don't like or enjoy.  It's bitter and full of victimhood. Yuck.

I'm working hard on letting go/detaching--since clearly there is nothing healthy left in my former relationship.  It's hard not to worry about my ex, but since he's made it clear he doesn't want me in his life, I have to move on and let him be his own problem.

[Deeno02]

Perhaps ironically (or paradoxically?) it is my total resentment for her and decision to therefore ignore her and cut her out of my life that keeps me from getting into conflicts with her.

That doesn't sound exactly like resentment, to me.  Sounds more like you have made a firm decision to detach and move on with no more monkey-business.

Resentment (I think, anyhow) is more active and consuming.  I know when I'm feeling resentment, it clouds my judgment and makes me act in ways I don't like or enjoy.  It's bitter and full of victimhood. Yuck.

I'm working hard on letting go/detaching--since clearly there is nothing healthy left in my former relationship.  It's hard not to worry about my ex, but since he's made it clear he doesn't want me in his life, I have to move on and let him be his own problem.

I think I have too. She's with someone else now and I think it's time I give up on waiting for an explanation or at least something that I meant anything at all to her and her kids. It's sad, I'm hurt, but she's someones else's problem now. Her chaos is no longer mine, thank god! I don't like her very much and don't care what happens to her. I'm done caring. Sorry if it's harsh, but it is what it is. She's nothing but a bad memory.

[Infared]

It's funny... .My ex has attempted to orchestrate  an interaction with me in public places.at different times. Always when she is alone, not with new supply. The two behaviors are totally inconsistent if she is alone or with supply. There has been no contact at all for years. My overriding feelings whenever she attempts this is "what do I need to do in this moment to protect myself". I don't think I have resentment or anger in that moment... .just a need to protect me. I cannot bear the thought of engaging with the self-centered, manipulating dishonesty and drama. Maybe it has changed, maybe it hasn't... .I just don't care to know.  It is a personal choice to avoid that at all cost as it greatly damaged me emotionally.  I can't say it is fear either... .just self love.

I don't know how else I feel. Forgiveness. I will have to continue to ponder that... .

[hergestridge]

Perhaps ironically (or paradoxically?) it is my total resentment for her and decision to therefore ignore her and cut her out of my life that keeps me from getting into conflicts with her.

That doesn't sound exactly like resentment, to me.  Sounds more like you have made a firm decision to detach and move on with no more monkey-business.

You're probably right. I suppose I have let others around me define resentment for me. I grew up with a lot of negative images of divorced grown ups who "didn't talk", but now I can see exactly where such a situation comes from. I also grew up with various people breaking my (albeit very weak) boundaries and  they put so much blame on me when I tried to withdraw.

I fell for that trick already back in the playground; someone who went "So, you hate me?" when I didn't want to play (or when I just didn't want to play one-on-one). I felt so guilty, I was pulled back in.

Having a "cold war" relationship with someone in my life is such a strange thing. My exwife is very uncomfortable about. My lack of courtesy clearly hurts her. She needs people to smile, to say things are OK and to small talk a bit to make her feel OK and I don't do those things anymore.

I suppose I'm quite indifferent about her, but in her eyes I clearly resent her. So thanks for putting that in a perspective!  

[Raybo48]

I think the skill and swiftness of their ability to get someone else to replace us (in my case right now) is something that cuts deep enough to where there will be no forgiveness on my part.  It's probably the #1 indictment on their personality disorder (I know that's saying a lot) as far as I'm concerned.  We end up loving them for all their obvious faults and crazy making behavior only to be cast aside like trash on the street corner when they feel we are getting too close or they have been shamed in some way by us.   

It's no small thing to open yourself up and love someone unconditionally, especially in my case when my pbdxgf has a major addiction to go along with it.  Now she's gone from idealizing me to absolutely hating me and threatening me. 

I'm going to stick with forgiving myself, viewing it as a life lesson, and move on the best way I can making sure I don't repeat my own behavior/co-dependency to hook up with the likes of her ever again.

[Infared]

"I think the skill and swiftness of their ability to get someone else to replace us (in my case right now) is something that cuts deep enough to where there will be no forgiveness on my part."

Amen to that brother.

[Hope0807]

Initially, I thought I could forgive and eventually find compassion toward my ex.  That moment faded as quickly as I considered it - and I couldn't feel more at peace.  Maybe not yours, but my ex is more psychopath than BPD.  I will need to do a lot of work to forgive myself (as I'm constantly disgusted with myself for allowing myself to be played and staying) and have compassion for me as I heal and those around me who deserve my compassion in their direction as well.  My uBPD/ASPDexH does not and will not ever be granted a single bit of anything from me ever again.  All forgiveness and compassion WILL be in MY (deserving) direction only.

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

[Deeno02]

Perhaps ironically (or paradoxically?) it is my total resentment for her and decision to therefore ignore her and cut her out of my life that keeps me from getting into conflicts with her.

That doesn't sound exactly like resentment, to me.  Sounds more like you have made a firm decision to detach and move on with no more monkey-business.

You're probably right. I suppose I have let others around me define resentment for me. I grew up with a lot of negative images of divorced grown ups who "didn't talk", but now I can see exactly where such a situation comes from. I also grew up with various people breaking my (albeit very weak) boundaries and  they put so much blame on me when I tried to withdraw.

I fell for that trick already back in the playground; someone who went "So, you hate me?" when I didn't want to play (or when I just didn't want to play one-on-one). I felt so guilty, I was pulled back in.

Having a "cold war" relationship with someone in my life is such a strange thing. My exwife is very uncomfortable about. My lack of courtesy clearly hurts her. She needs people to smile, to say things are OK and to small talk a bit to make her feel OK and I don't do those things anymore.

I suppose I'm quite indifferent about her, but in her eyes I clearly resent her. So thanks for putting that in a perspective!  

Me first now. They are on their own now. I want nothing to do with them... at all.

[peiper]

Initially, I thought I could forgive and eventually find compassion toward my ex.  That moment faded as quickly as I considered it - and I couldn't feel more at peace.  Maybe not yours, but my ex is more psychopath than BPD.  I will need to do a lot of work to forgive myself (as I'm constantly disgusted with myself for allowing myself to be played and staying) and have compassion for me as I heal and those around me who deserve my compassion in their direction as well.  My uBPD/ASPDexH does not and will not ever be granted a single bit of anything from me ever again.  All forgiveness and compassion WILL be in MY (deserving) direction only.

Now you've read and understood about BPD and how it may have effected your ex, can you forgive them for the way they treated you?

Although I believe my ex may have suffered from BPD, reading about this subject has helped me to ease my anger towards her, which is necessary as I need to have very limited contact with her. But for the cheating, lying and abuse of me, I don't think I ever will forgive her.

Is this normal or should I just let go?

That's a very good point. I also haven't forgiven myself for letting this happen. That's going to take a little more time. Without an apology and remorse from her the answer is NO. And I know I'll never get either, so I'm not going to worry about it.

[BuildingFromScratch]

I'm sure eventually I will. Because it's just a burden to hate/be angry forever. And although those serve a purpose now, I hope eventually I can heal enough to just let it go, for my benefit, not hers.

[going places]

Forgiveness, is for me.

I must forgive him, and all the things he did.

For me, not him.

I cannot hang onto, ruminate over, marinade in the past.

I have to look at it with my 'logical' brain, and say: Forgive, and let go.

IMHO unforgiveness only hurts me.

I am in the process of forgiving.

I WANT too. I know I NEED too.

Some days, the anger / hurt over rules... .but those days, by the Grace of God, are fewer and further between.

[Deeno02]

Forgiveness, is for me.

I must forgive him, and all the things he did.

For me, not him.

I cannot hang onto, ruminate over, marinade in the past.

I have to look at it with my 'logical' brain, and say: Forgive, and let go.

IMHO unforgiveness only hurts me.

I am in the process of forgiving.

I WANT too. I know I NEED too.

Some days, the anger / hurt over rules... .but those days, by the Grace of God, are fewer and further between.

Well said. However, I'm doing what she did for me. Forget about her. I have neither the energy or wherewithal to give her any more time or effort. She is dead to me.

[guy4caligirl]

They should forgive themselves before we forgive them.

[Mutt]

They should forgive themselves before we forgive them.

That's quite a tall order for a person with a serious personality disorder and distorted belief system. This is mental illness. Forgiveness is a choice. Find forgiveness for yourself first then choose if you want to forgive.

[Infared]

They should forgive themselves before we forgive them.

For them to forgive themselves, they would have to admit that they did something wrong, FIRST! :-)

This is a disease of self-centeredness. pwBPD see no wrong-doing on their part. Ever. There is nothing but blame placing. All the time. They are a victim... .of us, there evil step mother or whoever.

Just ask them.

[Craydar]

Do I forgive her? No. I'm not going to give her a free pass because she shows traits of BPD. She doesn't care anyway, she's moved on. People need to take responsibility for their actions. I don't hate and I don't condemn,  and I'll accept it as a reason for the dysfunction. I just won't openly forgive.

[BuildingFromScratch]

They should forgive themselves before we forgive them.

For them to forgive themselves, they would have to admit that they did something wrong, FIRST! :-)

This is a disease of self-centeredness. pwBPD see no wrong-doing on their part. Ever. There is nothing but blame placing. All the time. They are a victim... .of us, there evil step mother or whoever.

Just ask them.

I dunno, mine never admitted to doing anything specific that's wrong. But she told me not to blame myself on her way out, that she's sorry for everything, that she feels bad for leaving/hurting me. It's rare, but it does happen. She also said she thinks getting molested is what messed her up so bad, right before she moved out with the other guy. I think they kind of know, they just can't admit it 99% of the time, it hurts too much.

[SlyQQ]

General thought is if they know which most sought of do its there fault like a priest who likes teenagers ( bad example but all i could think of apologies ) it is up to them to stop an get treatment if they dont know it is sought of hard to blame them difficult call

[guy4caligirl]

I would rather say that they knew they were mentally ill from the get go , when we first met them , they played with their famous honey moon hooked us tight , made sure we got addicted, manipulated us "that little girl wants to be rescued and feel so good with you are her protector and she is a victim of abuse ( Made me think about this Have you notice that they can smell the goodness in us hence they won't get close to a bad guy maybe just for 5 minutes sex ) Then they show how ill they are .

Now does that fall under FRAUD yes , they stole our privacy sneaked in and sucked our emotion till we ran out and then what ... .They dropped us like nothing was ever there .

I assure you conscience or not they know exactly what they do , you don't think by now after so many brake ups Replacement after replacement ... .now do you think that they didn't figure out they have a problem ? Of course they do but they cover that up by switching the blame on us so they go on fresh to the next saying they were a victim of abuse with their ex and give a hint to the new guy recue me please (do you remember you were there once )

And the cycle continues ruining more people's life .

[Infared]

I would rather say that they knew they were mentally ill from the get go , when we first met them , they played with their famous honey moon hooked us tight , made sure we got addicted, manipulated us "that little girl wants to be rescued and feel so good with you are her protector and she is a victim of abuse ( Made me think about this Have you notice that they can smell the goodness in us hence they won't get close to a bad guy maybe just for 5 minutes sex ) Then they show how ill they are .

Now does that fall under FRAUD yes , they stole our privacy sneaked in and sucked our emotion till we ran out and then what ... .They dropped us like nothing was ever there .

I assure you conscience or not they know exactly what they do , you don't think by now after so many brake ups Replacement after replacement ... .now do you think that they didn't figure out they have a problem ? Of course they do but they cover that up by switching the blame on us so they go on fresh to the next saying they were a victim of abuse with their ex and give a hint to the new guy recue me please (do you remember you were there once )

And the cycle continues ruining more people's life .

YES!

[Mutt]

Thanks for participating. You're welcome with starting a new thread on this topic. The thread is now locked.