Forgiveness

[Mutt]

Hi everyone,


I would like to start a topic of discussion taken from the Wikipedia article on forgiveness. All of our members come from different walks of life, life experiences and belief systems.

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.[1][2][3] Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).[1] In certain contexts, forgiveness is a legal term for absolving or giving up all claims on account of debt, loan, obligation or other claims.[4][5]

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness

For this discussion I would like to focus on forgiveness and condoning.

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

As I was working through our lessons and the final stage of detachment FREEDOM I had internal conflicts with forgiveness. I felt uncomfortable because I thought perhaps it is not something that I should give to my ex partner. I had feelings of ambivalence for some time and I came to the realization that it aligns with my character and beliefs.

Abhinavagupta describes as the feeling of putting down a heavy burden. It's no small thing.

I didn't want to hold on to feelings of anger or resentment and to carry the burden of the weight around. I had gone through enough and wanted to let go of many offenses from family members and my spouse. It is not to say that I condone their actions. A simple explanation of boundaries is keeping the good stuff in and the bad stuff out. For example, if my ex partner with borderline personality traits crosses a boundary with the children, I would react accordingly in their best interest.

As the article states it is a voluntary process.


Let's discuss.

[Raybo48]

I think there is a fine line between forgiveness and wanting to hold our BPDx accountable for their actions.   From what I've been able to gather from previous threads it seems to be a central theme and the struggle for many of the members.  I find myself forgiving her and letting go pretty quickly, which I'm not sure if it's a byproduct of my co-dependency or just because I have compassion.  Regardless, I still find myself wanting to hold her responsible for the bad things she's done to me.

[fred6]

In an attempt to end things on good terms moving forward. I told my exgf that I forgave her and she straight up told me, "I didn't ask you to forgive me". I was like, What the heck? Did you really just say that to my face? Most people would appreciate being forgiven, but not her. Hell, I don't even know what her reply meant or what she was trying to convey. Makes no sense to me.

With her leaving things the way they are with no communication or closure, I know that I haven't really forgiven her though. Without her cooperation to resolve the conflict, it's going to take a while for true forgiveness to happen on my part.

[Raybo48]

In an attempt to end things on good terms moving forward. I told my exgf that I forgave her and she straight up told me, "I didn't ask you to forgive me". I was like, What the heck? Did you really just say that to my face? Most people would appreciate being forgiven, but not her. Hell, I don't even know what her reply meant or what she was trying to convey. Makes no sense to me.

With her leaving things the way they are with no communication or closure, I know that I haven't really forgiven her though. Without her cooperation to resolve the conflict, it's going to take a while for true forgiveness to happen on my part.

Fred6 my take on her response was that you were insinuating that she did something wrong by forgiving her.  I've found they tend to have no accountability for anything and don't think they do anything wrong so there is no reason to be forgiven for anything.

[fred6]

In an attempt to end things on good terms moving forward. I told my exgf that I forgave her and she straight up told me, "I didn't ask you to forgive me". I was like, What the heck? Did you really just say that to my face? Most people would appreciate being forgiven, but not her. Hell, I don't even know what her reply meant or what she was trying to convey. Makes no sense to me.

With her leaving things the way they are with no communication or closure, I know that I haven't really forgiven her though. Without her cooperation to resolve the conflict, it's going to take a while for true forgiveness to happen on my part.

Fred6 my take on her response was that you were insinuating that she did something wrong by forgiving her.  I've found they tend to have no accountability for anything and don't think they do anything wrong so there is no reason to be forgiven for anything.

Hell, not 3 minutes earlier she acknowledged that she had lied and cheated. But it's not only what she said, it's the way she said it. So disgusted, remorseless, and cold. It kind of bothers me, it just seems like a non sense reply to me. Kind of like the first thing that popped into her head or something. Anyone have any other opinions about her reply?

[Mutt]

which I'm not sure if it's a byproduct of my co-dependency or just because I have compassion.

The article is for a general audience, irregardless of co-dependency traits. I have compassion. I care for her as a person. I'm detached and I don't feel the same way about her anymore, I'm not in love with her and I wouldn't say I unconditionally love her. She is also the mother of my children, and the children have unconditional love for her.

I still find myself wanting to hold her responsible for the bad things she's done to me.

How would one accomplish this goal?

Hell, not 3 minutes earlier she acknowledged that she had lied and cheated. But it's not only what she said, it's the way she said it. So disgusted, remorseless, and cold. It kind of bothers me, it just seems like a non sense reply to me. Kind of like the first thing that popped into her head or something. Anyone have any other opinions about her reply?

She likely had conflicted feelings and felt disgusted. Much of the disorder is emotional immaturity. Do you mean it was that kind of tone?

I believe that my ex partner has been ill for sometime, since her teens. That said, she is not diagnosed and displays borderline personality traits. She may very well be ill for quite sometime. Forgiveness is a process that I chose to give without her knowledge. She's may not fully understand or validate. It is my process.

[Perfidy]

Forgiveness gets batted around quite a bit on this board. First, it's important to determine the nature of the action to forgive. Several things come to mind. Abuse? Physical, emotional, verbal, substance. Cheating could be viewed as abuse as long as two people have a committed relationship. Cheating would be abusing a relationship and involving other people that may require their own forgiveness. Some things could appear as actions that require forgiveness but upon closer examination may not need forgiveness. For example, if our ex was seeking to better their position by choosing another partner, who would blame them. If they aren't happy why would we stand between them and the door? Just because our feelings may have been hurt is no reason for forgiveness. Often, it is the style that hurts, not the event. Like, it's not what they do it's how they do it. This can be hurtful. It really is important to identify exactly what to forgive. For me, forgiveness didn't happen until my happiness returned, and then it just happened as a result. Not so much willed. I tried to will it so my suffering would end but it made no difference. I suffered. Forgiveness was a result of my self awareness, not the other way around.

[Raybo48]

which I'm not sure if it's a byproduct of my co-dependency or just because I have compassion.

The article is for a general audience, irregardless of co-dependency traits. I have compassion. I care for her as a person. I'm detached and I don't feel the same way about her anymore, I'm not in love with her and I wouldn't say I unconditionally love her. She is also the mother of my children, and the children have unconditional love for her.

I still find myself wanting to hold her responsible for the bad things she's done to me.

How would one accomplish this goal?

Hell, not 3 minutes earlier she acknowledged that she had lied and cheated. But it's not only what she said, it's the way she said it. So disgusted, remorseless, and cold. It kind of bothers me, it just seems like a non sense reply to me. Kind of like the first thing that popped into her head or something. Anyone have any other opinions about her reply?

She likely had conflicted feelings and felt disgusted. Much of the disorder is emotional immaturity. Do you mean it was that kind of tone?

I believe that my ex partner has been ill for sometime, since her teens. That said, she is not diagnosed and displays borderline personality traits. She may very well be ill for quite sometime. Forgiveness is a process that I chose to give without her knowledge. She's may not fully understand or validate. It is my process.

My comment about wanting to hold her responsible for what she did to me can't be accomplished, but that doesn't mean I don't have those feelings inside.  It's what I struggle with on letting go of because logically they are not productive feelings at all and don't do anything to improve my growth from this experience.  

[fred6]

She likely had conflicted feelings and felt disgusted. Much of the disorder is emotional immaturity. Do you mean it was that kind of tone?

Yeah, when she said, "I didn't ask you to forgive me". Her tone of voice and the look on her face was cold, remorseless, and disgusted. It was like an episode of the Twilight Zone or something... .

[myself]

The key words seem to be 'lets go'.

Like previous deeds/expectations that can keep us chained to the past.

Add an apostrophe and it becomes "Let's Go."

[Waifed]

As long as she continues to live her life like she does and treats others the way she does I have a hard time forgiving her.  I am aware that forgiveness is more about ourselves and is necessary for closure. I just find it hard to wish her well.  I prefer indifference.  I don't really care where her life takes her now because she is intelligent enough to work on herself it she wants too.  I would always be willing to support her in therapy if for some reason she ever asked.  I would not want any type of relationship with her though.  I truly don't want people like her in my life.  A year of NC made me realize how bad of a person she is inside.  I think people make excuses for pwBPD when they should be held more accountable.  The illness is even hidden from the general public for the most part. Why?  It has and effect on millions and millions of people.  Where is the awareness... .

I am more indifferent today than I was 14 months ago  Besides not having a real desire to date, she no longer controls my daily life.  Maybe with time I will forgive her, but for now I seek total indifference.  

[Mutt]

She likely had conflicted feelings and felt disgusted. Much of the disorder is emotional immaturity. Do you mean it was that kind of tone?

Yeah, when she said, "I didn't ask you to forgive me". Her tone of voice and the look on her face was cold, remorseless, and disgusted. It was like an episode of the Twilight Zone or something... .

That's invalidating fred6 when you're being sincere. I'm sorry.

It really is important to identify exactly what to forgive. For me, forgiveness didn't happen until my happiness returned, and then it just happened as a result. Not so much willed. I tried to will it so my suffering would end but it made no difference. I suffered. Forgiveness was a result of my self awareness, not the other way around.

I think you make a good point Perdify. I couldn't force it or will it. I struggled with it, and I had to look at the nature of actions. In some cases both were responsible and some cases not, like an affair. That being said I agree that it is a part of your selfawareness and it happened much later in detachment. As a result, I would like to add that forgiving offenses upon myself and letting go has made me happier, less anxious.

The key words seem to be 'lets go'.

Like previous deeds/expectations that can keep us chained to the past.

Add an apostrophe and it becomes "Let's Go."

I like that, it keeps us chained to the past.

I am more indifferent today than I was 14 months ago  Besides not having a real desire to date, she no longer controls my daily life.  Maybe with time I will forgive her, but for now I seek total indifference.  

You make a good point Waifed, you may or may not forgive her, for now you are indifferent Waifed. The passage of time may make you feel different.

[vortex of confusion]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

The definition of forgiveness says that it is a voluntary process where a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense. One, I don't really consider myself a victim. I refuse to embrace victimhood. Bad stuff happened. My feelings about the offenses themselves probably won't change. The offenses are those of being abusive. I will never change my feelings or attitude about abuse. I am not going to wake up one day and have my feelings about abuse towards me or anyone else change. I can let go of negative emotions without forgiveness. And, I can wish an offender well without any sort of forgiveness.

To me, it follows the whole notion of hate the sin love the sinner. I can hate the offense without hating the offender. If I don't hate the offender and hold negative feelings towards the offender, what is their to forgive. I don't hate my husband. I never have and don't think I ever will. He is the father of my children. I may have hateful feelings but that doesn't mean that I hate him.

[Mutt]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

The definition of forgiveness says that it is a voluntary process where a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense. One, I don't really consider myself a victim. I refuse to embrace victimhood. Bad stuff happened. My feelings about the offenses themselves probably won't change. The offenses are those of being abusive. I will never change my feelings or attitude about abuse. I am not going to wake up one day and have my feelings about abuse towards me or anyone else change. I can let go of negative emotions without forgiveness. And, I can wish an offender well without any sort of forgiveness.

To me, it follows the whole notion of hate the sin love the sinner. I can hate the offense without hating the offender. If I don't hate the offender and hold negative feelings towards the offender, what is their to forgive. I don't hate my husband. I never have and don't think I ever will. He is the father of my children. I may have hateful feelings but that doesn't mean that I hate him.

I never saw myself as a victim. I recall the emotional responses from family members and I didn't like the emotional reactions and the negative feelings attached. I'm indifferent to the behaviors, as they are not indifferent to the behaviors. I don't hate my wife nor do I wish ill will. I wish her well.

I like that vortex of confusion, hate the offense without hating the offender.

[Perfidy]

Profound difference between being a victim and assuming the role.

[maxen]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.[1][2][3] Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).[1]

i really don't know what others mean when they use the word. from the above finely-parsed distinction it appears to be a difficult concept to see clearly. i can honestly say that i've never felt vengeful towards my stbxw. i've never hated her. i will one day detach. but she is, objectively speaking, dishonest, violent, adulterous, bitter, and callous, indeed sadistic. and unapologetic. it's not that she did things like that, which she did. it's that carelessness about these things is embedded in her character. there's a big dollop of N in with her B. i don't wish her ill, though i will never wish her well. i was a victim (why is it so important to people to insist that they're not?). i only wish that when before the marriage i saw her moral problems (now understood also (not "instead" as emotional/psychological problems), i had done the hard thing and turned away, and i can't blame her for that.

what would it mean anyway to wish her well? to have a happy, uneventful, and successful life? to collapse totally and hit bottom in order to get real psychological help? to grow a conscience? each of would be a beneficial thing.

[Recooperating]

Im trying really hard to work towards that place of forgiveness. Not for him, for me.

I keep telling myself "he's ill, its the disorder, its not personal."

I have worked through anger recently and I came to a more peacefull place. Then today he contacts my sister and tells her crap... .

I know its the disorder craving attention, whether its negative or not. He needs to plant that seed in my head, he tries to push buttons just to see which one will make me react. I know it comes from his hurt, and underneath hurt is love. The volitile angery smear campaign comes from hurt, shame and love... .

I try really hard to not take it personal, to observe the behaviour but not obsorb, wish him well in my mind and let go. But I find it really hard sometimes to not care about what he says about me in thise moments. I find it hard to detach in those moments, but I really am trying really hard. I was really angry today about it mail to my sister. He knows I love my friends and family and he's trying to harrash them as I have not responded to any of his rages. NC now for 1,5 months.

I know forgiveness will give me freedom... .For me its work in progress... .

[Mutt]

from the above finely-parsed distinction it appears to be a difficult concept to see clearly

You make a good point maxen. How complex and difficult is the concept? What's the formula?

I asked myself does it align with my values, beliefs and character? If I had not given her forgiveness for myself and her. It would of been out of character for me. Again, there are boundaries and she is responsible for her actions as well.

So far in the discussion, it depends on the offenses and if it's permissible for forgiveness. Also, letting of past transgressions and negative feelings and emotions.

For me its work in progress... .

Perdify makes a good point that it is not something that you can will and it's found when you are happier. Speaking from my personal experience, I had grieved the relationship and I was detached. I was happier.

You're 1.5 months NC Recooperating and it's understandable that it is a work in progress for you .

[Waifed]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.[1][2][3] Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).[1]

i really don't know what others mean when they use the word. from the above finely-parsed distinction it appears to be a difficult concept to see clearly. i can honestly say that i've never felt vengeful towards my stbxw. i've never hated her. i will one day detach. but she is, objectively speaking, dishonest, violent, adulterous, bitter, and callous, indeed sadistic. and unapologetic. it's not that she did things like that, which she did. it's that carelessness about these things is embedded in her character. there's a big dollop of N in with her B. i don't wish her ill, though i will never wish her well. i was a victim (why is it so important to people to insist that they're not?). i only wish that when before the marriage i saw her moral problems (now understood also (not "instead" as emotional/psychological problems), i had done the hard thing and turned away, and i can't blame her for that.

what would it mean anyway to wish her well? to have a happy, uneventful, and successful life? to collapse totally and hit bottom in order to get real psychological help? to grow a conscience? each of would be a beneficial thing.

I too am a victim. I'm a victim of deception for sure. I was victimized by an abuser, whether it was all intentional or not. I take responsibility for my part and have worked on myself. I have chosen to better myself. Part of my healing was accepting both responsibility for my part in this, and accepting that I was a victim.  It has helped me release the shame that I carried for feeling like I was duped into such a strange and uncharacteristic situation that I normaly wouldn't have gotten myself in too. I've let go of the embarrassment of my actions and the pain that I felt when looking back at certain situations and now realizing that I was used or being betrayed.

[Mutt]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.[1][2][3] Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offense from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).[1]

i really don't know what others mean when they use the word. from the above finely-parsed distinction it appears to be a difficult concept to see clearly. i can honestly say that i've never felt vengeful towards my stbxw. i've never hated her. i will one day detach. but she is, objectively speaking, dishonest, violent, adulterous, bitter, and callous, indeed sadistic. and unapologetic. it's not that she did things like that, which she did. it's that carelessness about these things is embedded in her character. there's a big dollop of N in with her B. i don't wish her ill, though i will never wish her well. i was a victim (why is it so important to people to insist that they're not?). i only wish that when before the marriage i saw her moral problems (now understood also (not "instead" as emotional/psychological problems), i had done the hard thing and turned away, and i can't blame her for that.

what would it mean anyway to wish her well? to have a happy, uneventful, and successful life? to collapse totally and hit bottom in order to get real psychological help? to grow a conscience? each of would be a beneficial thing.

I too am a victim. I'm a victim of deception for sure. I was victimized by an abuser, whether it was all intentional or not. I take responsibility for my part and have worked on myself. I have chosen to better myself. Part of my healing was accepting both responsibility for my part in this, and accepting that I was a victim.  It has helped me release the shame that I carried for feeling like I was duped into such a strange and uncharacteristic situation that I normaly wouldn't have gotten myself in too. I've let go of the embarrassment of my actions and the pain that I felt when looking back at certain situations and now realizing that I was used or being betrayed.

You took responsibility Waifed.

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

I don't think that there is a right or wrong here. This is a voluntary process - a choice. If you chose not to, that's fine. Every one comes from different circumstances and beliefs, it's not for me to judge someone else. I made my choice.

[Deeno02]

Nope. I will not forgive her conduct towards my children. I will not. She can go live in her hell, I want no part of it. I dont want an apology, Im not really wanting an explaination because I belive I have recieved it via my understanding of BPD. I have zero sympathy.  My only act of forgiveness is for her kids, and I hope they can forgive me.

[Mutt]

Nope. I will not forgive her conduct towards my children. I will not. She can go live in her hell, I want no part of it. I dont want an apology, Im not really wanting an explaination because I belive I have recieved it via my understanding of BPD. I have zero sympathy.  My only act of forgiveness is for her kids, and I hope they can forgive me.

I hope that your kids forgive you too Deeno02. There's not much that I can do with my kids on her time as I can't control someone else's household. I can control mine. I would hope that they make the choice when they are of legal age to live with me.

I use tools that I learned here on the boards and validate their feelings. I chose to be a role model for them, and to be there for them emotionally to have an influence in the here and now to influence their future. Their feelings in regards to mom are their own.

It is their unconditional love for either parent, irregardless of the parents feelings or conflict between them.  I believe there will be a day that I'll have to have a talk with the kids about mom and her traits. I don't choose divorce poison or to alienate mom, my feelings about their mother are my own. It is their mother and perhaps they may have to make their own choice in the future in regards to their forgiveness.

That's their choice. I do the best that I can day to day for myself and above all for them. I hope that they learn their values and morals from my influence by living my life by example.

[Deeno02]

Nope. I will not forgive her conduct towards my children. I will not. She can go live in her hell, I want no part of it. I dont want an apology, Im not really wanting an explaination because I belive I have recieved it via my understanding of BPD. I have zero sympathy.  My only act of forgiveness is for her kids, and I hope they can forgive me.

I hope that your kids forgive you too Deeno02. There's not much that I can do with my kids on her time as I can't control someone else's household. I can control mine. I would hope that they make the choice when they are of legal age to live with me.

I use tools that I learned here on the boards and validate their feelings. I chose to be a role model for them, and to be there for them emotionally to have an influence in the here and now to influence their future. Their feelings in regards to mom are their own.

It is their unconditional love for either parent, irregardless of the parents feelings or conflict between them.  I believe there will be a day that I'll have to have a talk with the kids about mom and her traits. I don't choose divorce poison or to alienate mom, my feelings about their mother are my own. It is their mother and perhaps they may have to make their own choice in the future in regards to their forgiveness. That's their choice.

We weren't married Mutt. As the r/s floundered, she started attacking my children and more so my daughter, who had moved back homd to attend a closer college. I believe she became jealous of my daughter. I wont ever forget or forgive her comments toward my kids. I hope her 5 kids can forgive me for no longer being there for them with this mad woman.

[Mutt]

We weren't married Mutt. As the r/s floundered, she started attacking my children and more so my daughter, who had moved back homd to attend a closer college. I believe she became jealous of my daughter. I wont ever forget or forgive her comments toward my kids. I hope her 5 kids can forgive me for no longer being there for them with this mad woman.

It's a part of the disorder. Fighting for the attention from the kids. Kids are smarter than we think. Kids are also constantly watching us. I understand that you weren't married and you do have one child of your own?

I'm speaking from my experience. That said, I walk the walk for my kids because I want to be a positive influence on them. I don't want to show them that dad is inflexible and dad is not forgiving.

A choice I proactively made after the split. I didn't understand how our emotional health as kids is such an integral part of our adulthood and impacts our future. I can attest to that having a difficult childhood. I feel like I would be looking the other way and I don't have the heart to do that to my kids.

[antelope]

I don't hate my ex.

I don't love my ex.

I don't like my ex.

I don't dislike my ex.

After 3+ years, 1000s of hours together, and 1000s of conversations, I can honestly say I don't know her... .I have indifference toward her for this reason.

How can you really have strong, definite feelings, positive or negative, for a stranger?

I now understand her issues, their etiology, and their course.

In letting go of the negative feelings, I have become knowledgeable about her condition, as well as the condition I was in when I entered the relationship, and stayed in for so much of the tumultuous, dysfunctional journey... .

I learned my part in it, and what it meant about me, and who I was, and the meager life I was living.  It was an amazing wake-up call, filled with so much self-discovery, personal growth, and new found awareness of... .me.

I forgive her because she is living a life I cannot really imagine.  She is a lost, fragile, frightened, little girl, who has no idea who she really is, and hates every detail of her existence.  She is just circling the drain, with seemingly no end in sight.  I forgive her because I pity her.

I forgive her because of the sure-footed place I am now in, emotionally, physically, and interpersonally.  The relationship, as frequently awful as it was, allowed me to finally become happy... .with me 

[Raybo48]

I don't hate my ex.

I don't love my ex.

I don't like my ex.

I don't dislike my ex.

After 3+ years, 1000s of hours together, and 1000s of conversations, I can honestly say I don't know her... .I have indifference toward her for this reason.

How can you really have strong, definite feelings, positive or negative, for a stranger?

I now understand her issues, their etiology, and their course.

In letting go of the negative feelings, I have become knowledgeable about her condition, as well as the condition I was in when I entered the relationship, and stayed in for so much of the tumultuous, dysfunctional journey... .

I learned my part in it, and what it meant about me, and who I was, and the meager life I was living.  It was an amazing wake-up call, filled with so much self-discovery, personal growth, and new found awareness of... .me.

I forgive her because she is living a life I cannot really imagine.  She is a lost, fragile, frightened, little girl, who has no idea who she really is, and hates every detail of her existence.  She is just circling the drain, with seemingly no end in sight.  I forgive her because I pity her.

I forgive her because of the sure-footed place I am now in, emotionally, physically, and interpersonally.  The relationship, as frequently awful as it was, allowed me to finally become happy... .with me 

Best thing I've read in a while  and I can certainly identify.  Thank you.

[Mutt]

Thank you antelope for sharing. I agree with Raybo48. Well articulated 

[AwakenedOne]

Good thread Mutt.

Through my work I came across a young kid today who was self harming with his fist in deep frustration. After much effort I got him to stop by telling him how I and everyone else care about him. I practically begged him to stop at points though. I said "please" two dozen times. Many of those with BPD self harm. My wife did. When I saw this kid hurting himself it gave me a ton of horrible flashbacks of my wife doing this same type of thing. I wonder if this kid has BPD. I helped change his mood and left him actually smilling at the end.

My religion says that forgiveness of others is mandatory. So that has to be my goal. I don't think I'm at that point though unfortunately. Maybe seeing this suffering kid today going through what my wife experienced/experiences? got me at least pointed in that direction.

[Panda39]

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well.

I think the above is accurate.  For a very long time I couldn't understand "forgiveness" you hear it in the news all the time... .I forgive the murderer who killed my child... .I forgive the thief that stole from me... . I could never understand how or even why someone would forgive in situations like that.  Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong.  As someone said earlier I was confusing condoning with forgiving.

At 47 Years old I learned the meaning of forgiveness by giving it.

As a 16 year old I fell in love, this young man and I grew up together, continued our relationship through college (separate locations), continued our relationship into our mid 20's we were together almost 10 years.  He was the love of my life and the man I wanted to marry and expected to marry.

Then he cheated the one "unforgivable" thing he could do to me and he knew it. I kicked him out of my house and didn't see him again.  For at least a year I suffered a broken heart and stuffed all my feelings for him. Who wanted to hear about it?  Who would I tell because the love of my life was also my best friend.

This one event I believe changed the course of my life for 19 years.  About a year and 1/2 after our break up I met someone else in June, began dating in July and finally got engaged in August.  He was my rebound man and I married him simply because he asked, I was 26 and not getting any younger!  Turns out I married an alcoholic but I stayed in my marriage... .you guessed it I was a co-dependent enabler.

But the biggest part in my making all of these decisions was I had Zero self esteem I allowed the break up from that early relationship to crush my self esteem utterly & love? what's love? Can't trust love! I made a series of bad decisions that finally led to depression.

About 17 years into my marriage I started climbing back up the depression hole... .started doing some things for me, for my health and for my soul.  

One of many things I did was reach out to family & friends.  I had the contact information on that young man from so many years ago and I called him.  We talked about the usual things our jobs our families etc.  Then somewhere in this conversation he told me what I had meant to him all of those years ago, that he wouldn't be the man he was without me, that he had loved me.  I felt like the grinch who's heart grew 3 times that day.  His comments triggered a year long breakdown and breakthroughs.  I always knew that I loved him but I stuffed it and in letting the love out right on it's heels followed hurt, anger, grief and disappointment all things I wasn't even conscious of feeling.  

At this time I had a dream with him and I in it just hanging out talking about old times.  I woke up and knew that if I wanted to have any type of friendship with him I would need to forgive him for hurting me so long ago.  I honestly, truely from the bottom of my heart forgave him. I thought I was forgiving him for him but something I didn't expect happened.  In forgiving him I freed myself from all the pain I carried around for years.  In forgiving him I was finally no longer stuck in the past.  In forgiving him I reclaimed myself worth.  In forgiving him I came to understand the abandonment I felt.  In forgiving him I realized our break up wasn't my fault.

In 2009 I dropped enough baggage to fill a storage container!  

I finally left my marriage and that turned out to be the best thing for all of us my son, my ex and me.  My son who was living with an alcoholic dad and depressed mom was now living with a health happy mom who was modeling a healthy life.  My ex had his 3rd DUI following our divorce, lost his job, driver's license and his retirement (for lawyer and court fees).  He hit rock bottom (no co-dependent enabler there to "manage" him any more).  He finally understood he is an alcoholic and has been sober the last 3 years.  Now my son can also be proud of his dad too.

I will always love that young man from my past both in spite of the things he's done and because of the things he's done.  I'm proud of my ex too for making changes and good choices.  What I'm most happy about is that I am free of them both and have a healed heart, a healed self image, healed capacity to trust, and the ability to love fully.

I have since met a lovely man that I'm crazy about, who is a partner to me, who is supportive, and caring.  I finally recognize and have the love I deserve.  Now if we could only do something about his uBPDxw  

[Infared]

In an attempt to end things on good terms moving forward. I told my exgf that I forgave her and she straight up told me, "I didn't ask you to forgive me". I was like, What the heck? Did you really just say that to my face? Most people would appreciate being forgiven, but not her. Hell, I don't even know what her reply meant or what she was trying to convey. Makes no sense to me.

With her leaving things the way they are with no communication or closure, I know that I haven't really forgiven her though. Without her cooperation to resolve the conflict, it's going to take a while for true forgiveness to happen on my part.

Fred6 my take on her response was that you were insinuating that she did something wrong by forgiving her.  I've found they tend to have no accountability for anything and don't think they do anything wrong so there is no reason to be forgiven for anything.

Raybo... .I have the same experience, but also, five minutes or five years later they could say that they did everything wrong and then 5 mins or 5 years later be totally unaccountable again and that I was the cause of ALL the problems. There is no understanding it and no chance of having a relationship or even a sense of closure of any kind, unless I give that to myself, far away from the craziness.