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Author Topic: Did your ex hurt you in order to feel good herself?  (Read 6187 times)
bungenstein
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« on: November 16, 2014, 11:16:58 PM »

I've noticed my ex could never let me be happy for too long, she seemed to be in a state of power whenever I was in pain, she once even admitted that she liked the reaction she got off me when she caused me pain, and one time she even flat out said, "I want to hurt you, I want you to feel pain"
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 11:43:26 PM »

When my Ex was at her emotional baseline, I asked her what she was thinking when she was acting out in anger. She said, "I just want everyone else to feel my pain."

From a moral standpoint, that didn't compute with me, but it made sense. It goes back to my values differing from hers.
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 11:50:56 PM »

Interesting, maybe so.  Never really thought of it that way.  Mine was really intent on ruining many things for me, such as much needed vacations, Christmas, time with my friends, etc.  I hadn't seen my daughter for 10 mths and was so excited when she was coming home and he acted so miserable the entire time after she arrived, he really wanted to ruin it for me I think.  I even begged him, could he please just let me enjoy her but nope, he just couldn't do it.  Picked her apart, everything she said or did, it was awful.  I think mine was more bc he was jealous of me having a good time, especially with others.  Sick.
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 12:01:55 AM »

Excerpt
"I just want everyone else to feel my pain."

Mine said that too and at first I thought it was mean, but after a while I came to realize she was looking for connection.  She knew something was 'off' with her and didn't know what, felt that no one understood, and if someone could just meet her at her pain there'd be a connection, at last.  It's lonely inside that disorder.  Of course, why don't you just feel my happiness sweetheart?  Not an option.
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 12:22:56 AM »

Mine tried her best to ruin and spite everything in my life. All that mattered was that I always give her what she demanded.

Our first evening with my friends she got upset about a little joke on her, and spent the rest of the evening ignoring every one. My birthdays where ruined. My last birthday with her this year, she broke up a day before just because I never gave her money to have her hair done.

Our weekends away always ended up in a huge fight over something stupid.

Geez, why did I stick around for 3 years. These people are seriously sick, and I have had such great relationships in my life. Why waste this time with this monster?
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 12:32:51 AM »

One thing I noticed was that when I was upset she seemed happy and when I was happy she was upset.

It rarely was a case of us both being happy. And obviously I could never go to her for support if I was having a tough time of it so I'd bury my pain and put on a brave face so I could support her better.  But she'd push buttons until I couldn't keep up the act.
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 01:28:22 AM »

Mine said almost those exact same words. "I want you to feel what I feel". And yes, she was referring to the pain and agony she was suffering.

When a medical test showed she would need at least two operations, she said, "Why me. Why me and not you?" I couldn't believe it. She justified it by saying, " I only eat healthy foods and you eat McDonalds three times a day".

I explained that nobody wishes an operation upon anyone and it's not my fault her condition was hereditary (thanks, Mom). It seems than whatever they feel has to be imparted to their victim.

PS : Since separation, I stopped eating McDonalds just to spite her. Hehe. Just the thought of eating McD now makes me sick.
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 01:37:37 AM »

Mine said almost those exact same words. "I want you to feel what I feel". And yes, she was referring to the pain and agony she was suffering.

When a medical test showed she would need at least two operations, she said, "Why me. Why me and not you?" I couldn't believe it. She justified it by saying, " I only eat healthy foods and you eat McDonalds three times a day".

I explained that nobody wishes an operation upon anyone and it's not my fault her condition was hereditary (thanks, Mom). It seems than whatever they feel has to be imparted to their victim.

PS : Since separation, I stopped eating McDonalds just to spite her. Hehe. Just the thought of eating McD now makes me sick.

It's funny you mention mcdonalds,  when I was with mine the stress caused me to lose my appetite to the point where the only thing I could stomach was a big Mac at lunch,  which I only ate to get some calories in. McDonald's saved my life Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 01:48:54 AM »

I lost about 10kg in 3 years. I was really starting to show signs of serious physical sickness.

Now all that has changed. I date, go to gym, sleep well and live a good life. Nothing nicer than having ME back again. No more demands I must meet, fights, and pressure.

This life is just too good to waste.
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 03:06:56 AM »

I am certain that my ex "got off" on causing me pain after she was sure that she had the safety of the new supply. They both did many cruel things (quite immature as well) in public to try and hurt me emotionally. I was usually alone or with new (not mutual) friends, totally minding my own business. The look of total power and enjoyment on their faces was kind of hard to miss.  Very sick stuff.
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 03:16:17 AM »

My ex told me she treated others how she wanted to be treated. I realized this sort of applied to when she treated me badly.  It began with her rebelling against me like i was a controlling father.  I didn't get sucked into that and pointed it out to her.  But by not taking the role of persecuter she just found enabling friends (rescuers) and assumed that role herself. 
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2014, 03:24:15 AM »

I do not think it is pain per se, rather it is about control and punishment. They have an uncanny lust for revenge and this together with the controlling behaviour means that they have to inflict pain on you to control you and also to punish you for all the "wrongs" you did to them.
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2014, 03:32:00 AM »

I am certain that my ex "got off" on causing me pain after she was sure that she had the safety of the new supply.

Wow. My ex did the same thing. During the most god-awful devaluation I didn't know she had already lined up the next guy but I remember thinking, "wow she must be standing on some pretty broad shoulders to be doing that to me".  I knew there was an explosion coming... .I just didn't know how big.
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2014, 03:33:29 AM »

A lot of the dynamics of this are covered in transactional analysis, where I believe the karpman drama triangle comes from, and I think is worth investigating.
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2014, 03:48:41 AM »

I do not think it is pain per se, rather it is about control and punishment. They have an uncanny lust for revenge and this together with the controlling behaviour means that they have to inflict pain on you to control you and also to punish you for all the "wrongs" you did to them.

Yes... .yes... that is what I "think" that I experienced. 
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 03:49:52 AM »

I've noticed my ex could never let me be happy for too long, she seemed to be in a state of power whenever I was in pain, she once even admitted that she liked the reaction she got off me when she caused me pain, and one time she even flat out said, "I want to hurt you, I want you to feel pain"

My ex said "Borderline people hurt others because they want to make them feel how they feel... ." In their mind it is always an eye for an eye. I read something some time ago about Talionic rage that explains this. I think A.J. Mahari has written something about it.
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2014, 04:00:35 AM »

Excerpt
I do not think it is pain per se, rather it is about control and punishment. They have an uncanny lust for revenge and this together with the controlling behaviour means that they have to inflict pain on you to control you and also to punish you for all the "wrongs" you did to them.

Very true words. It was scary the amount of pain my ex carried with her on a daily basis. And the extremes she would go to, just to hurt me and spite me. If I did something wrong in her eyes, or never lived up to one of her unreasonable demands, expect revenge.

I think her greatest revenge is replacing me, yet I never made contact after walking out. Realizing she has a speech prepared just for me. I will not give her that satisfaction.
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2014, 06:43:34 AM »

Excerpt
I do not think it is pain per se, rather it is about control and punishment. They have an uncanny lust for revenge and this together with the controlling behaviour means that they have to inflict pain on you to control you and also to punish you for all the "wrongs" you did to them.

Very true words. It was scary the amount of pain my ex carried with her on a daily basis. And the extremes she would go to, just to hurt me and spite me. If I did something wrong in her eyes, or never lived up to one of her unreasonable demands, expect revenge.

I think her greatest revenge is replacing me, yet I never made contact after walking out. Realizing she has a speech prepared just for me. I will not give her that satisfaction.

Yes... I believe this is what I experienced, too. I think getting the replacement was revenge for who knows what? Just being in a relationship with her I guess? It could have been faux revenge as that card was just played to justify her infidelity and a role to act out making me the villian and him the new knight in shining armor for the poor, poor victim.
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2014, 07:56:37 AM »

I do not think it is pain per se, rather it is about control and punishment. They have an uncanny lust for revenge and this together with the controlling behaviour means that they have to inflict pain on you to control you and also to punish you for all the "wrongs" you did to them.

Yep and was one of the fears of divorcing h.  He has a lust for revenge.
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2014, 08:48:23 AM »

I had a different experience. I feel like mine is and was so self absorbed that he is oblivious to any pain that he may cause. He doesn't feel good or bad about it as it is not about him. I remember telling him one time that I was at the end of my rope and was thinking dark thoughts. He seemed totally non-plussed by it. I did want him to feel what I was feeling, not to make me feel good but to get some kind of validation since he has a penchant for invalidating pretty much anything. I wonder if some of them are simply looking for validation so they don't feel quite so crazy.

In my case, my husband is too self centered to notice whether or not he is causing other people pain. His only concern is himself and what he is feeling and wanting. If I were to say, "Stop, it hurts" his response would be, "It wasn't that bad" or "I didn't realize it" or some other BS response to completely avoid any kind of responsibility for the pain he was causing. It is all about him.
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2014, 08:57:07 AM »

I did notice if I was really happy about something it wouldn't take long for my BPDxgf to either start an argument or have a crisis of her own to take the attention away from me. 

I don't know if  she didn't want me to be happy or if it was she wasn't getting attention focused on her.  I prefer to think it was attention based because of her needs to be 'the center of attention' rather than wanting me to be unhappy.  I don't think they really think like that more than they feel empty pretty quickly if they are not getting 100% attention 24/7.
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2014, 08:59:38 AM »

After getting back home from visiting my ex in her country the last time, I told her I was slowly getting after the traumatic experience over there. She then asks me, "How did it feel?" I've wondered if she wanted my to describe the pain, for her pleasure.
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2014, 09:00:42 AM »

Excerpt
"I want to hurt you, I want you to feel pain"

My wife routinely says... .I want you to know (feel and experience) what I feel. She does that in her words and actions.  

Just one example she has done a few times.  She did in the past not picked up our kids at school and I got a call from the principle who was with them already over an hour after dismissal.  Wife was at house and said you go pick them up to see what my life is like.  She wanted to give me the sense of what it feels like to be over burdened.  That is not the first time she did that.  Has done it with doctor appointments, etc.    
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2014, 09:13:14 AM »

In my case, my husband is too self centered to notice whether or not he is causing other people pain. His only concern is himself and what he is feeling and wanting. If I were to say, "Stop, it hurts" his response would be, "It wasn't that bad" or "I didn't realize it" or some other BS response to completely avoid any kind of responsibility for the pain he was causing. It is all about him.

I can relate to this in 'good' times... .he'd play fight rough and I'd inevitably get hurt.  He'd apologise only to do it again or he'd apologise and if I didn't stop being hurt and didn't let it go immediately he'd get all pouty.  But when things were not good, when I had done something to 'cross' him (it could be anything!) he was out for revenge.  He loved the ST as he knew it would be upsetting as that's what my mom did to me and then he'd say I was being 'over sensitive'... .Gahhh! What an a$$!  Since our split I believe he'd love to hurt me any way possible for revenge and I still look over my shoulder.
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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2014, 09:24:09 AM »

My ex admitted to punishing me intentionally for about a decade and to getting pleasure out of intentionally doing things that caused me suffering.  She also admitted to me that she gets a sexual rush out of knowing that men want to have sex with her and then rejecting them.
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 09:36:12 AM »

I can relate to this in 'good' times... .he'd play fight rough and I'd inevitably get hurt.  He'd apologise only to do it again or he'd apologise and if I didn't stop being hurt and didn't let it go immediately he'd get all pouty.  But when things were not good, when I had done something to 'cross' him (it could be anything!) he was out for revenge.  He loved the ST as he knew it would be upsetting as that's what my mom did to me and then he'd say I was being 'over sensitive'... .Gahhh! What an a$$!  Since our split I believe he'd love to hurt me any way possible for revenge and I still look over my shoulder.

See, I don't even think mine would want revenge. It would take too much effort and it would mean that he would have to think about somebody other than himself. Not only that, it would interfere with the image he tries to project. He isn't really a vengeful person. Selfish, self centered, self absorbed. . .but not vengeful. Anything that would require him to put forth effort is pretty much off the table with him unless it will provide some kind of direct benefit to him. Besides, I don't think my husband has the balls to try to get revenge on me. He acts like a scared little child at times. It is really quite entertaining as he acts like I am the boogeyman or something.
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 10:11:24 AM »

We may be talking about several things here and rolling them into one.

My ex said "Borderline people hurt others because they want to make them feel how they feel... ." In their mind it is always an eye for an eye. I read something some time ago about Talionic rage that explains this. I think A.J. Mahari has written something about it.

This is a concept of James F. Masterson, M.D...  I believe its a rage, when wounded, intended to make the other party attend to the wound.

"I just want everyone else to feel my pain."

I had a different experience. I feel like mine is and was so self absorbed that he is oblivious to any pain that he may cause. He doesn't feel good or bad about it as it is not about him.

I think both of these are true with many of our exs... .and we really know which one is at play at any one time... .but they are vastly different.

Is this BPD?  I think these things go beyond BPD.

Oce we get a sense that our partner or parent is willing to intentionally hurt us... .it really changes things.
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 10:34:06 AM »

We may be talking about several things here and rolling them into one.

My ex said "Borderline people hurt others because they want to make them feel how they feel... ." In their mind it is always an eye for an eye. I read something some time ago about Talionic rage that explains this. I think A.J. Mahari has written something about it.

This is a concept of James F. Masterson, M.D...  I believe its a rage, when wounded, intended to make the other party attend to the wound.

"I just want everyone else to feel my pain."

I had a different experience. I feel like mine is and was so self absorbed that he is oblivious to any pain that he may cause. He doesn't feel good or bad about it as it is not about him.

I think both of these are true with many of our exs... .and we really know which one is at play at any one time... .but they are vastly different.

Is this BPD?  I think these things go beyond BPD.

Oce we get a sense that our partner or parent is willing to intentionally hurt us... .it really changes things.

I dont know... hard to figure out. All I know is that I was the replacement to her husband leaving her and, no matter what I did it was wrong and I recieved the verbal (but oh so subtle) ass kicking that I had to stop and think if it was truly an ass kicking. She was very good at making you feel like ___ without making you feel like ___. Of course she could histrionic with the best of them, but not often.
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 10:43:58 AM »

Oce we get a sense that our partner or parent is willing to intentionally hurt us... .it really changes things.

This is a good point.  As much as I believe my ex was acting out to hurt me, it was more like a 3 yr old acts out by clobbering another kid because he takes his toy. It's self serving, reactive.  Not a lot of thought put into it I don't believe.  I do believe there was thought into the subtle and not so subtle intimidations though.  It was his way of getting the upper hand.  And it worked.  I'm still scared of him and I'm pretty sure I'm not just being paranoid.  This may have nothing to do with BPD and everything to do with the fact he has violent values.
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 10:48:30 AM »

I didn't mean to imply that these actions are not associated with BPD - I was trying to say that more than just pwBPD do these things.
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2014, 10:49:52 AM »

Mine was both, too.  On one hand, she would intentionally hurt me and enjoy watching me suffer.  On the other hand, she was clueless to how much she hurt me and others.  The first was like a compulsion for her.  She even described it that way... .like she "has to" punish me... .punish me for, in her mind, not completely satisfying her black-hole of neediness and thereby wounding her beyond toleration.  The second was just part of her projection, I believe.  :)o cruel and insensitive things to others, but turn it around like they are just overly-sensitive when they are hurt by it.  Truly amazing the kinds of damage these people cause, and they will never change.
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 10:54:11 AM »

Excerpt
In their mind it is always an eye for an eye

My wife says this often to me... .  It is eye for eye .

I have said lets start for forgiveness.  She says  'it hurts to much to forgive you because I do not want to be hurt again.  How can you prove to me you won't hurt me again'.   I don't know how to respond to that.   
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 10:55:54 AM »

I didn't mean to imply that these actions are not associated with BPD - I was trying to say that more than just pwBPD do these things.

Could be Transference involved (the inappropriate repetition in the present of a relationship that was important in a person's childhood). My Ex said in the end that I reminded her of her father (the pain of emotional abandonment). For my part, I did detach from her emotionally, because her anger and emotional immaturity reminded me of my mother. So my dysfunctional coping mechanism was avoidance. In doing this, I caused her pain. I'm not BPD, even if I do have some fleas. I don't remember consciously doing it; it was just an ingrained survival mechanism.
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2014, 11:01:12 AM »

Mine was both, too.  On one hand, she would intentionally hurt me and enjoy watching me suffer.  On the other hand, she was clueless to how much she hurt me and others.  The first was like a compulsion for her.  She even described it that way... .like she "has to" punish me... .punish me for, in her mind, not completely satisfying her black-hole of neediness and thereby wounding her beyond toleration.  The second was just part of her projection, I believe.  :)o cruel and insensitive things to others, but turn it around like they are just overly-sensitive when they are hurt by it.  Truly amazing the kinds of damage these people cause, and they will never change.

Well mine would never admit to trying to hurt me and when I accused him of this he turned it around, like I was over sensitive and he was a saint.  He pretended to be such a sensitive guy in what he said but what he did was entirely different.  He even told me on our 5th date (first time we were intimate) that "he would never hurt me"... .which I found to be an extremely odd thing to say.  Like he was going to be my protector or something.  Which is ironic considering I needed protection from only one person - him!

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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2014, 11:02:11 AM »

Excerpt
I have said lets start for forgiveness.  She says  'it hurts to much to forgive you because I do not want to be hurt again.  How can you prove to me you won't hurt me again'.   I don't know how to respond to that.  

That's the impossible trap of it all.  You could accidentally pass gas in her direction, and if it struck her in that particular moment as some kind of rejection or indication that you don't care, it will be like you scarred her for life.  You can run around in circles for years trying to make up for your "wrong" and trying to explain how you weren't rejecting her... .all to no avail.  

In marriage, we say vows to each other because we *know* the other person will let us down, and we will let them down, too.  That doesn't really work in a pwBPD's universe, though.  Nothing was enough for my ex wife.  I always felt like a deer in headlights, waiting for when those headlights meant I was being run over again.  That was a terrible, terrible way to live, and I have to remind myself of that every time I start getting that "deer-in-headlights" fear about what crazy problem she is going to invent as we try to co-parent our children.
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2014, 11:15:41 AM »

Excerpt
He even told me on our 5th date (first time we were intimate) that "he would never hurt me"... .which I found to be an extremely odd thing to say.  Like he was going to be my protector or something.  Which is ironic considering I needed protection from only one person - him!

My ex said something similar.  She was going to "protect" me from all the bad things that ever happened to her, since I was so "innocent" and "pure."  The irony is that, in some form, she did everything that ever happened to her to me.  She realized this during one of our divorce attempts.  She had a lucid moment and realized how things had turned out the opposite of what she originally pledged.
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2014, 11:33:35 AM »

One thing I noticed was that when I was upset she seemed happy and when I was happy she was upset.

This.

It seemed she loved me the most, when I was at my worst.
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2014, 12:22:42 PM »

I did notice if I was really happy about something it wouldn't take long for my BPDxgf to either start an argument or have a crisis of her own to take the attention away from me. 

I don't know if  she didn't want me to be happy or if it was she wasn't getting attention focused on her.  I prefer to think it was attention based because of her needs to be 'the center of attention' rather than wanting me to be unhappy.  I don't think they really think like that more than they feel empty pretty quickly if they are not getting 100% attention 24/7.

I got two new jobs in the last 15 months. She was still stuck at hers. When I got job #2, I was actually afraid to tell her, and for good reason. She actually got MAD that I had gotten Job #2 by then and said it wasn't fair.

Like others, she was at her best when I was at my worst.

Sick part was that sometimes during arguments, if I shifted the scope to something else happening to me that was BAD, she would forget the argument and then seem happy to be there for me... .but she wasn't being supportive, she was just glad I was in a crappy situation.
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2014, 01:02:12 PM »

why don't you just feel my happiness sweetheart?

This is where I was much of the time. Knowing she was uncomfortable, upset, worried, whatever, when I usually wasn't, I shared my better moods with her and offered to do so any time. Sometimes she took me up on it. More often tore me down, changed the overall feel of things, and disappeared. You would think a chance at something better would be like an antidote, but it was more like extra poison. Such a strange disorder.
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2014, 01:08:33 PM »

My BPx ‘hurt me’ in order to lessen my credibility.  Realizing she’s deeply messed up PD traits she seemed compelled to bring me down to her level.  And, she appeared to have enjoyed the company!
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« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2014, 01:45:24 PM »

It is usually only when I have been completely broken down - by her anger, her silence, by the loneliness, rage, belittling- that she will stop "squeezing my throat".   

As I have been better at not being affected by all the above (able to hold my breath longer)... .it just drags the process out longer (days have turned into weeks).  Because she has more stamina than i do.  That is she can inflict the pain longer than I can take it.

Then in the end... .I feel lousy and she feels better.   
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« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2014, 01:57:36 PM »

It is usually only when I have been completely broken down - by her anger, her silence, by the loneliness, rage, belittling- that she will stop "squeezing my throat".   

As I have been better at not being affected by all the above (able to hold my breath longer)... .it just drags the process out longer (days have turned into weeks).  Because she has more stamina than i do.  That is she can inflict the pain longer than I can take it.

Then in the end... .I feel lousy and she feels better.   

That describes how I feel. He is oblivious and in his own little world while I am on the sidelines trying to get his attention. It is only after I have snapped and acted like a crazy woman that he will say or do anything. And then, it is usually this really pathetic "oh I deserved it" or "I didn't realize you were hurting." I am not one to tip toe around stuff. I tend to be pretty direct so I have a really difficult time believing that he just didn't know. I tend to think that he just doesn't care. And when I walk away from it all, I feel like the a$$hole.

Like somebody (Skip I think) said further up in the thread, it adds a whole knew dimension when you think somebody that you love can deliberately hurt you. Maybe I am delusional and am being naive but I don't think he is doing things deliberately.
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« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2014, 02:18:46 PM »

Excerpt
e is oblivious and in his own little world while I am on the sidelines trying to get his attention. It is only after I have snapped... .Then I feel like the a$$hole

Dittos  Vortex. 



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« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2014, 02:24:33 PM »

Excerpt
And when I walk away from it all, I feel like the a$$hole.

then it seems like I should be the one to apologize because I snapped.  I end up apologizing for my reaction and she says better not happen again with no thought or understanding what I went through to get to that point of snapping.   
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« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2014, 02:34:25 PM »

then it seems like I should be the one to apologize because I snapped.  I end up apologizing for my reaction and she says better not happen again with no thought or understanding what I went through to get to that point of snapping.   

yes, that's a common experience here.

i didn't have the skills i might have learned at this site, during my marriage. it's not that i would have said anything different, but i would have said it differently. i was, without knowing it, setting boundaries. but why was i so uncomfortable doing that? how do we state out interests without becoming embroiled in their emotional mishegas?
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« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2014, 04:13:45 PM »

Well, my husband just left me, so I'm still processing all this. I lived with the awareness that he liked to hurt me. He even liked to hurt me physically during sex. Once, he threw how I'd been date raped in my face during an argument. I wish I'd never told him. His therapist told him that was a "low blow", but I'm sure that made it even more enjoyable to him.

He's justified hurting me physically too. So much for those hollow apologies. Now, he's playing noble, like he has left me because of how badly he treats me. I don't buy it. Other times he said things like "I notice other beautiful women lately", and "I don't want to have to worry about your feelings". For two years he actually said "I don't care about your feelings, and keep your blank blank opinions to yourself". I should have left right then.

Does this ever stop hurting? Why is it so hard for me to not text him? I tried radical acceptance, he was diagnosed, but I wanted to make it work, but really never got a chance because only I expended any effort. I wish I'd never met him.
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« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2014, 04:23:15 PM »

Vortex of Confusion:

Like you, I didn't want to think my husband was doing this stuff on purpose, but I fully believe now, that he was. Also like you, I was pretty direct, not one to make a guy guess, and am a straight shooter. I'll be tactful, and mindful of feelings, but I'm honest, and always want to work things out, so they don't keep happening. He was unable to do that, because he was unable to have a civil conversation most times. It just ramped up his rage/dyregulation.

He vented, was angry, was blaming, and several times physical, and often aggressive, just because after he blows, HE felt better. I think part of why he left, other than due to his three PD adult daughters(those apples didn't fall far from the tree), is because he doesn't really want to face what his is. He's been diagnosed, is on meds, but I'm sure he'll lie to the next victim, just like he did me. I was willing to stay, radically accept what he couldn't change, but he just wanted out, because I wasn't letting him blame the mental issue on me. HIS shrink didn't diagnose ME with anything, and it burst his little bubble.

People with bad borderline behaviors, or antisocial behaviors, just seem to need a person to unload their angst on. As sad as I am, I'm hoping that after a while, I see that it's a trade off. I'm sad to lose him, because I love him, but I'm no longer in daily fear or torment, although being left in itself is always hard.
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« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2014, 04:33:42 PM »

I lived with the awareness that he liked to hurt me.

^^start your detachment/healing with this statement... .is that what you really meant to say, or, as hard as it may be to admit it, maybe you were actually trying to say:

"I feel I deserve to be punished."

after we spend months and then years in these dysfunctional scenarios, the relationship really becomes about us, and what we are running away from by staying enmeshed in such bizarre and destructive behavior.

someone f&cks you over once, twice, five times... .ok

but after years and hundreds of episodes of twisted, rude, hurtful, deceptive behavior, the issue isn't them anymore, but why we choose to tolerate it, and why we believe we can fix it

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« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2014, 04:47:57 PM »

Oce we get a sense that our partner or parent is willing to intentionally hurt us... .it really changes things.

Spot on... .This is what did it for me. I went through a lot of abuse but didn't end it. Because what she was doing was not clearly malicious. She was just very sensitive - that is how I 'd put it without pathologising her - and I did truly love her. She had some wonderful qualities - she was artistic, spiritual, adventurous, passionate. We share some of these qualities and in that sense made a good match so I hung in there. Now that I have a clear head I can see that it was not all mirroring as some post in these forum (incl myself in the early days when my wounds were sore).

So I put up with it... .however, it was only after we had an argument and I saw her looking at me with a sadistic smile pleased that a misfortune had befallen me, that I ended things. She was pleased with my suffering. I realised that this person is not my friend. This person - or at least the person that she was that day - hates me.  I couldn't stay with her after that. I left, went NC all the way and never turned back.

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« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2014, 05:06:26 PM »

Antelope:

Never for a minute, did I ever think I deserved how he treated me. Which is why we fought. He wanted me to just take it, be totally passive. I came into this relationship, with strong boundaries, and good self esteem. If he'd valued me half as highly as I value myself, or my feelings, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

That's not something you can expect with a fullblown, untreated BPD though. They don't care what YOU think of yourself, it's all based on their projection, and their skewed perception of you, even if it's not fact based. His world was based on his own chosen reality, and nothing I could say, or do would change that. He'd take totally GOOD things I did, and look for some nefarious motive, purpose, or turn it into the complete opposite. After a while, I just let him think what he wanted, because he was going to anyway. After a while, you have to learn to save yourself.

I'm a nice person, who is kind, caring, understanding, and accepting of others. In the end, it was him who couldn't accept me. I accepted his personality disorder, but he couldn't accept that I could never be exactly what he wanted, or fix what felt broken inside himself. He wanted to be totally selfish, and in relationships, that just doesn't work out very well.
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« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2014, 05:14:48 PM »

Never for a minute, did I ever think I deserved how he treated me. Which is why we fought. He wanted me to just take it, be totally passive. I came into this relationship, with strong boundaries, and good self esteem. If he'd valued me half as highly as I value myself, or my feelings, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

That's not something you can expect with a fullblown, untreated BPD though. They don't care what YOU think of yourself, it's all based on their projection, and their skewed perception of you, even if it's not fact based. His world was based on his own chosen reality, and nothing I could say, or do would change that. He'd take totally GOOD things I did, and look for some nefarious motive, purpose, or turn it into the complete opposite. After a while, I just let him think what he wanted, because he was going to anyway. After a while, you have to learn to save yourself.

I'm a nice person, who is kind, caring, understanding, and accepting of others. In the end, it was him who couldn't accept me. I accepted his personality disorder, but he couldn't accept that I could never be exactly what he wanted, or fix what felt broken inside himself. He wanted to be totally selfish, and in relationships, that just doesn't work out very well.

Thank you so much for this Cerulean blue! I needed to hear this today.
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« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2014, 05:41:13 PM »

Antelope:

Never for a minute, did I ever think I deserved how he treated me. Which is why we fought. He wanted me to just take it, be totally passive. I came into this relationship, with strong boundaries, and good self esteem. If he'd valued me half as highly as I value myself, or my feelings, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

That's not something you can expect with a fullblown, untreated BPD though. They don't care what YOU think of yourself, it's all based on their projection, and their skewed perception of you, even if it's not fact based. His world was based on his own chosen reality, and nothing I could say, or do would change that. He'd take totally GOOD things I did, and look for some nefarious motive, purpose, or turn it into the complete opposite. After a while, I just let him think what he wanted, because he was going to anyway. After a while, you have to learn to save yourself.

I'm a nice person, who is kind, caring, understanding, and accepting of others. In the end, it was him who couldn't accept me. I accepted his personality disorder, but he couldn't accept that I could never be exactly what he wanted, or fix what felt broken inside himself. He wanted to be totally selfish, and in relationships, that just doesn't work out very well.

yeah, as Ive mentioned before of the snarky digs at me, couldnt do anything right. Couldnt plan, didnt plan enough and so on. My biggest regret was allowing her to say bad stuff about my daughter and then stand there and ask if i had a problem with it. Her and her toxic neighbor  (both who have daughters) calked my daughter a cock block(not to her face, just among them and their friends)and i did nothing. Nothing.
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« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2014, 09:55:16 PM »

Deeno02:

Does this sound familiar. My husband would let his daughters say horrible things to my face, and did nothing. In an effort to make peace, I did a therapy session with his daughter, and she was absolutely hateful, he sat and did nothing. His therapist had to come right out and tell him that his daughter "acted crappy" to your wife, but he didn't care. Of course he didn't care. The day we got married, his other daughter called hours after we got married, saying awful things about me, and all he could manage was "I'm so sorry you feel that way, daughter". My therapist said, in the Catholic church(I'm not catholic), that would probably be grounds for annulment. His daughter was saying "she'll ruin your life", "you are making a bad choice"... .blah, blah... .all because they'd gotten mad at me over nothing.


They knew of their Dad's anger issues, and he's now diagnosed PD, and has put me through hell, so WHO is the one who should have regrets? ME! We put up, and shut up, like you did with your wife, because we fear all hell will break loose if we defend others or ourselves. I learned to just take the hatefulness that his kids flung my way, but I simmered with loathing of them under the surface. They are mean, vengeful, and personality disordered, I'm sure, just like their parents. They can have their not so nice, dysfunctional family back. I'm hurting, but I know I'm better off.
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« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2014, 10:04:52 PM »

In my BPDh's words: "I'm gonna make you suffer"

He doesn't want me to be happy. Misery loves company
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« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2014, 05:12:14 AM »

Deeno02:

Does this sound familiar. My husband would let his daughters say horrible things to my face, and did nothing. In an effort to make peace, I did a therapy session with his daughter, and she was absolutely hateful, he sat and did nothing. His therapist had to come right out and tell him that his daughter "acted crappy" to your wife, but he didn't care. Of course he didn't care. The day we got married, his other daughter called hours after we got married, saying awful things about me, and all he could manage was "I'm so sorry you feel that way, daughter". My therapist said, in the Catholic church(I'm not catholic), that would probably be grounds for annulment. His daughter was saying "she'll ruin your life", "you are making a bad choice"... .blah, blah... .all because they'd gotten mad at me over nothing.


They knew of their Dad's anger issues, and he's now diagnosed PD, and has put me through hell, so WHO is the one who should have regrets? ME! We put up, and shut up, like you did with your wife, because we fear all hell will break loose if we defend others or ourselves. I learned to just take the hatefulness that his kids flung my way, but I simmered with loathing of them under the surface. They are mean, vengeful, and personality disordered, I'm sure, just like their parents. They can have their not so nice, dysfunctional family back. I'm hurting, but I know I'm better off.

Thank god I never married that person. I couldn't even imagine what you went through. My daughter and her were like mother and daughter... .until my daughter moved back home from college to attend a closer college. I think my gf was jealous of my daughter taking time away from my gf. Hence the beginning of her anger towards my daughter and I.
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« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2014, 05:23:45 AM »

Antelope:

Never for a minute, did I ever think I deserved how he treated me. Which is why we fought. He wanted me to just take it, be totally passive. I came into this relationship, with strong boundaries, and good self esteem. If he'd valued me half as highly as I value myself, or my feelings, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

That's not something you can expect with a fullblown, untreated BPD though. They don't care what YOU think of yourself, it's all based on their projection, and their skewed perception of you, even if it's not fact based. His world was based on his own chosen reality, and nothing I could say, or do would change that. He'd take totally GOOD things I did, and look for some nefarious motive, purpose, or turn it into the complete opposite. After a while, I just let him think what he wanted, because he was going to anyway. After a while, you have to learn to save yourself.

I'm a nice person, who is kind, caring, understanding, and accepting of others. In the end, it was him who couldn't accept me. I accepted his personality disorder, but he couldn't accept that I could never be exactly what he wanted, or fix what felt broken inside himself. He wanted to be totally selfish, and in relationships, that just doesn't work out very well.

EXACTLY... .
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