do they replace us out of anger or desperation?

[caughtnreleased]

I'm just thinking about this.  I have a feeling I was replaced out of anger.  It was a way to punish me.  Because when it didn't work out with the replacement (he claimed he missed me... .so I read that as his anger finally subsiding) he came back to me for a bit.  When he came back, he certainly let me know he had not been happy with what I had done prior to being replaced (I'd put up a few boundaries!  ).

I can't imagine what a relationship, created out of a desire to hurt someone else outside of that relationship, would look like. Anyone else have insight into how this "replacement" thing played out in their situation?  I think he was simply desperate to drop me like a hot potato after his perceived abandonment by me.

[Earthbayne]

I tend to compare it to this.

Have an electric toothbrush? Ever have it run out of juice after some time? Throw out the battery and replace with a new one to keep it working.

We're all the battery.

[HappyNihilist]

I tend to compare it to this.

Have an electric toothbrush? Ever have it run out of juice after some time? Throw out the battery and replace with a new one to keep it working.

We're all the battery.

This. 

Replacement has nothing to do with us. When they move on to a replacement, they aren't acting out of anger, desperation, or revenge at/against us -- they are doing what will fulfill their needs at that moment. The replacement offers something they need, just like we once offered something they needed.

[FrenchConnection]

They have issues that go way beyond our relationship with them.  Issues that were never dealt with correctly.  It is impossible for them to handle emotions correctly.

[caughtnreleased]

I see the point, and yes I agree it is their deeper issues that cause them to do this.  But perhaps I was more referring to the fact that we trigger them.  And so, in triggering them, they act out... .mostly in anger I would imagine, if they are the ones doing the leaving.

[clydegriffith]

While i understand the whole replacement thing, it's still very difficult to get grasp of, at least in my situation.

The BPDX had 2 children with guy #1, then replaced him with me when those kids were 2 and 3. She had a child with me as well and the relationship went to hell before our child was a year old. Two years and 4 replacements later she has another child with someone else. And she walks around like it's perfect normal to be in your mid 20s with all these kids by different guys.

Continuing to bring innocent kids into her messed up world is in my opinion child abuse.

[rosannadanna]

I understand your point, caughtandreleased.  In my case, The the third and last time we re-engaged there were big trust issues brewing, but I was using the staying tools and most of our interactions were calm and I (mostly) didn't feel like I was walking on eggshells.  He was generally more distant (probably checking out other possibilities) and the fact that I was mostly accepting of the relationship "as is" was maybe unsettling to him.  I am a homebody with a very routinized life and I think he thought that was boring.

The other posters suggest that replacement is motivated from the BPD's drive to get their needs met when you can no longer meet their needs, and I agree with that.  But I think in my case, my ex was also seeing how far my "radical acceptance" would go, like far enough to accept him stepping out on me.  And maybe even punishing me for, I don't know... .for no longer interacting with high emotion and drama?  for the perceived (and real) hurt I brought into the relationship?  b/c he was angry at me for not being able to take away his pain?

This is just a hunch based on what I know about my ex.  He had the ability to be passive aggressive and to feel slighted so it is possible that there was a component of anger with the act of finding someone new.

I am not sure what you mean by desperation though... .

[Xidion]

They replace us for several different reasons. Maybe all of them... maybe just a couple of them. I believe that they start looking for new supply immediately after the honeymoon phase and they kick us off of the pedestal. It may not happen right away... but they surely try. Any attention from someone else makes them feel good. In my case... everything went downhill super fast as soon as we moved in together. Apparently her idealization of me vanished. We were comfortable... she pee'd with the door open. We got undressed in front of each other. Normal things in a real relationship. However... to a BPD, nothing normal is normal to them. She believed that the love and passion in our relationship was completely gone. Which, it wasn't gone, it just wasn't like the honeymoon phase that she needs to fill her emptiness. As soon as they start to feel that you aren't giving them enough attention, love, passion, etc... they will look for new supply behind your back and leave you once they know it's a for sure thing with the new supply.

[fred6]

I am a homebody with a very routinized life and I think he thought that was boring.

I wonder how many of us nons are like this. I'm pretty much a homebody also and kind of ocd daily routine. I'm not real spontaneous and usually plan things out. My ex hated siting around the house and said it was so depressing. She was always on the road and put 90K miles on her new 2011 model car in 3 years. It seems they get bored real easily. I don't have a problem being at home. At home I can watch tv, play on the internet, play a video game, play my guitar, cook, clean, get drunk, ect, ect. All she could really do was sleep or leave and go somewhere. 

[Mutt]

I'm just thinking about this.  I have a feeling I was replaced out of anger.  It was a way to punish me.  Because when it didn't work out with the replacement (he claimed he missed me... .so I read that as his anger finally subsiding) he came back to me for a bit.  When he came back, he certainly let me know he had not been happy with what I had done prior to being replaced (I'd put up a few boundaries!  ).

I can't imagine what a relationship, created out of a desire to hurt someone else outside of that relationship, would look like. Anyone else have insight into how this "replacement" thing played out in their situation?  I think he was simply desperate to drop me like a hot potato after his perceived abandonment by me.

I can relate. At the center of the disorder is a narcissistic injury, the core wound of abandonment, abandonment fears. A pwBPD fear abandonment perceived or real. I had told my ex that I had wanted a divorce as a scare tactic to telegraph that I was fed-up with the behaviors ( I didn't know about BPD during the marriage ) and she needs to change. It back-fired and instead I triggered her fear of abandonment.

She started looking elsewhere and met another man and quickly got into another relationship while she was with me. Once that the other relationship was stable enough and that she knew he was interested and serious. She left.

Her anger towards me was not anger necessarily directed at me. She wasn't in therapy and wasn't working on her trauma. She was re-acting her core trauma on me and was objectifying me and not viewing me as a person but as an object. She has many defense mechanisms that protect her with feeling bad like projection, dissociation and splitting. As the years went on in my relationship I was becoming more frustrated and helpless and I set boundaries. At this point, enough was enough.

Much like a small child that flails against their parents boundaries she was doing the same. BPD is arrested emotional development and the acting out was worse after I set boundaries years after the start of the relationship. Setting boundaries is much easier from the get-go then setting them after the relationship is established and settled.

I didn't know at the time that feelings were facts to her and that she needed a lot of validation. It's not until I arrived here after she had left for her affair partner and left the marriage that I heard of tools like SET and JADE.

Her dissociation ( altering reality to match her out of place feelings ) would frustrate me and I would defend my reality and argue with her that she's in fact wrong. I was taking things at face value and mental illness had not entered my mind.  The periods that she dysregulated became more frequent and longer because she wasn't able to return to her emotional baseline. I had become a trigger for her and she was not coping in the relationship.

Also keep in mind that the BPD is an attachment disorder and she lacks a stable sense of self. My anger, frustrations, invalidation made her it very difficult for her to cope. After all, it's pain from her trauma and core wound that she's running away from that she's likely not aware of - subconsciously. As I said, I didn't know I was dealing with a serious personality disorder at the time and we can become triggers as such was my case. I was arguing, defending and fighting back and making a situation much worse. She taught me a valuable less ( of many lessons ) about conflict.

I'm speaking on how I interpret the disorder from my personal experience. Every member here is unique and coming from different circumstances.

[antelope]

IMO, they replace us for one reason: fear

think about you ex's behavior from a standpoint of them being afraid... .I realized my ex's coping mechanisms were designed pretty much to avoid fear

[caughtnreleased]

By desperation I mean, they feel so ashamed, especially when on their own, that they need new supply.  So desperation to not be alone.  These are the two "triggers" that I can identify as leading to their replacing us.  Anger and/or desperation.  

For the longest time, I thought he got a replacement out of desperation... .and now, I'm pretty sure it was anger, much of it against me.  And what I am floored by is how well he hid that anger.  The last time I saw him (when we ended the first time around) he'd told me I'd been really sweet and patient with him, etc.  Then when we recycled many months later what did he say? You should have been more patient.  For many on here, it seems that their BPDexs express their anger against them, openly.  Yell, devalue, etc.  I never had that. Maybe because I broke it off when he started to get way to clingy.  But, yeah during the recycle... .there were these little, tiny, subtle hints, of very intense anger that I think he felt towards me. Like... .he mentionned moments in the past where I had made a comment that he had laughed off at the time.  Well he later revisited these little passing comments, and pointed out how he had laughed, but how he had fake laughed... .and how he had fooled me with his "fake" laugh.  And how I shouldn't have made that comment.  Kind of creepy.  

I think I also just saw him walking around near my house... .he seems to do that too... .even more creepy.  Ugh.  

And, while, it's true all this is about their underlying issues is what really leads them to act like this, for me it's actually really helpful to have seen his anger.  Because I KNOW that the degree of anger is completely out of proportion to anything that I would EVER deserve.   We dated casually.  Very, VERY casually, and for mostly for so little time.  And yet... .the things he has done (NC, immediate replacement (s), and sleeping around in a very public fashion)... .anyway... .I think understanding their actions (even on a superficial basis), and being detached from it, has been so helpful in my understanding, that, indeed, it has NOTHING to do with me, even though he tried to make his actions look like reactions to mine.  In a way they were... .but he was reacting to the anger inside of him, that he thought he felt in relation to me, and which he was hoping would be transferred to me.  But that anger he felt was so intense, there is no rational justification for it to be directed towards me.  Like I said, our relationship, while very honest and I would say intimate, remained superficial, never exclusive, and never official.  We were lovers for two brief moments in time. And now we're not because he thinks I caused his intense feelings of anger, because he hasn't bothered to do the work to figure out where his anger originated from. Anyway, desperate and empty was not attractive but to me it still held a vulnerability. But anger, and totally unjustified?... .no THANKS.  There's enough angry people in the world. I don't need to get that from an intimate partner.  Sorry for the long ramble... .feels good to get it out though sometimes.

[caughtnreleased]

IMO, they replace us for one reason: fear

think about you ex's behavior from a standpoint of them being afraid... .I realized my ex's coping mechanisms were designed pretty much to avoid fear

you're right. Fear is also a big part of the equation.  I saw much of his fear as well.  Is anger though not a maladaptive coping mechanism for dealing with fear?... .I'll have to self reflect on that one because I've been trying to confront my own issues with anger. 

[antelope]

Is anger though not a maladaptive coping mechanism for dealing with fear?... . 

few human conditions are as primal as fear, and it manifests itself in any way possible to avoid it or deal with it (fight or flight)

fear of change, fear of being found out, fear of losing you, fear of losing themselves vis a vis the relationship, fear of dealing with their past, etc etc etc ... .our exes are afraid of so so many things

maybe, personality disorders develop as a complex, multi-faceted, and pathological coping mechanism for fear?

[Loveofhislife]

I think the answer is "all of the above."  The easy answer for me is pwBPD replace us to avoid pain.  Replacements are a pain reliever.  :)r. Scott Peck wrote that the avoidance of pain is the ultimate cause of all mental illness.  Think about that for a minute.  Haven't pwBPD spent their entire lives avoiding pain?  In his books, including his most famous, The Road Less Traveled, and excerpts from his book tour Further Along the Road Less Traveled Dr. Peck wrote about how life IS pain.  Life is a desert.  We must go forward through the desert.  Addictions are all about ways in which we choose to stop moving forward or even retreat back into the womb (or so we think).  

Where I recognize that I differ from many on this board is my belief about addictions and mental illnesses--I believe that there is a difference between those that are biologically-based (schizophrenia, bipolar, schizo-effective) or developmental disabilities or the result of head injuries, stroke, dementia, PTSD--and those that are developed as a series of choices we make in our lives. I truly believe as human beings, we are given free will and choice.  I have seen so many FOO examples where siblings, raised in the same home, at the same time, by the same biological parents make very different choices.  I chose to be a rescuer.  My exbfBPD chose to remain a victim.  Together, we created a dance macabre.  I no longer blame him.  But also, I do not absolve him because of his past.  

My exbfBPD continues to make choices to "relieve his pain" at the cost of others.  This is the excuse for many child abusers--they too, were abused children, so they are somehow destined to become child abusers themselves.  I don't believe it.  I know too many abuse victims who did not make these choices.  

So many examples (metaphors) are made between the behaviors of young children and our pwBPD's.  I raised three children through their terrible twos, and I can tell you that none of them ever wanted to hurt me. They were angry, and they probably felt like they hated me sometimes; but never have I had someone plan and execute a strategy to devastate me as did my exbfBPD, who my T's believe is a sociopath.  I'm sorry for his pain.  I'm sorry for all those who are his pain relief.  But no good can come to those who seek out others to relieve their own pain while hurting their victims (willing or unwilling).

Sadly for me, I must continue to explore why I was one of the willing.

[peiper]

I would have to agree. There were tens of thousands of children that grew up in Nazi concentration camps. All that I've read about were just happy to be out and have the chance at a good life. I don't recall any that ended up working as camp guards. In my opinion the pwBPD have a choice it they abuse or not. Mine chooses to get up every morning and take a shower. Same difference. I personally think they derive pleasure from what they do.

[Mutt]

I think the answer is "all of the above."  The easy answer for me is pwBPD replace us to avoid pain.  Replacements are a pain reliever.  :)r. Scott Peck wrote that the

So many examples (metaphors) are made between the behaviors of young children and our pwBPD's.  I raised three children through their terrible twos, and I can tell you that none of them ever wanted to hurt me. They were angry, and they probably felt like they hated me sometimes; but never have I had someone plan and execute a strategy to devastate me as did my exbfBPD, who my T's believe is a sociopath.  

I can relate with the kids. I have a toddler now and when he throws a tantrum he really thinks dads a bad guy. Idealization and devaluation.

The different between my 3 year old and ex. My ex is an adult and accountable for her actions. If she oversteps boundaries with the kids. Do not pass Go. We're going straight to court. I'll let the system make her accountable for her actions.

[Blimblam]

According to James masterson in his book the search for the real self. They replace us to avoid feeling the abandonment depression that they never properly experienced in the pre opiedal stage as a child. At around age 2 a child individuates from their

Mother and experiences an abandonment depression. So they form attachments as a means to avoid feeling the pain associated with abandonment depression people ordinarily experience very early in life. It's all about pain avoidance.

[Xidion]

From my experience. They NEED attention and validation constantly. It's from the neglect and trauma from when they were a child. In the honeymoon phase... they feel loved, adored, worshipped almost. Once that phase is over, they begin to fear losing you because they don't feel like you love them as much. As they start to feel this, they lose love for you in return (but it wasn't REAL love to begin with). They become controlling so that you won't leave them. After this phase, they start looking for new supply to fulfill their neediness for validation. When they feel like you stop giving them to this, I feel that they turn you into an enemy because you are "abandoning" them... when you really aren't. That's when their pain becomes rage and they hurt you. I truly believe that hurting others makes them feel good, because they believe everyone else should have to suffer the pain that they feel on a daily basis. It is such a sad disorder. Even after having my heart torn out by who I thought was my wife to be... I feel an immense amount of pity for these people. We can move on and in time we get over it and can find happiness. People with this disorder will NEVER be truly happy unless they seek help... even then, it's not guaranteed. Feel sorry for them... because they weren't able to develop the correct coping mechanisms that we did.

[Popcorn71]

From my experience. They NEED attention and validation constantly. It's from the neglect and trauma from when they were a child. In the honeymoon phase... they feel loved, adored, worshipped almost. Once that phase is over, they begin to fear losing you because they don't feel like you love them as much. As they start to feel this, they lose love for you in return (but it wasn't REAL love to begin with). They become controlling so that you won't leave them. After this phase, they start looking for new supply to fulfill their neediness for validation. When they feel like you stop giving them to this, I feel that they turn you into an enemy because you are "abandoning" them... when you really aren't. That's when their pain becomes rage and they hurt you. I truly believe that hurting others makes them feel good, because they believe everyone else should have to suffer the pain that they feel on a daily basis. It is such a sad disorder. Even after having my heart torn out by who I thought was my wife to be... I feel an immense amount of pity for these people. We can move on and in time we get over it and can find happiness. People with this disorder will NEVER be truly happy unless they seek help... even then, it's not guaranteed. Feel sorry for them... because they weren't able to develop the correct coping mechanisms that we did.

this is totally correct imo.  I almost feel sorry for my ex. I suspect he was very neglected as a child and possibly abused too.  His mother never showed any care and concern for him.  In fact she seemed to dislike him very much.  I recognise all the stages described. It all fits in with what i experienced. But i cannot get rid of the anger and hatred for him due to the pain he inflicted on me and seemed to enjoy. I did not deserve that.

[Blimblam]

Is anger though not a maladaptive coping mechanism for dealing with fear?... . 

few human conditions are as primal as fear, and it manifests itself in any way possible to avoid it or deal with it (fight or flight)

fear of change, fear of being found out, fear of losing you, fear of losing themselves vis a vis the relationship, fear of dealing with their past, etc etc etc ... .our exes are afraid of so so many things

maybe, personality disorders develop as a complex, multi-faceted, and pathological coping mechanism for fear?

Yes it's a primal fear of abandonment and engulfment. Essentially as a toddler they didn't feel a secure attachment with their primary caregivers to venture out on their own knowing their caregivers would remain their for them through it. So they did not complete a vital stage in their development. This core wound of fear haunts them for life. So in their internal psyche they didn't really develop a healthy ego or sense of individual self. They are dealing with an internal conflict between their inner authority or parental figure aka the super ego and the impulsive child aka the id and the abandoned child held captive by fear with trust issues.  That's why they often project onto others the authority figure who they seek to gain acceptance and approval from. They then seek to secure that attachment and manipulate to keep control repeating their childhood fears of abandonment by thier primary caregivers.  If they can control mommy being being the perfect child she won't abandon me. If we get too close they fear that the ego identity they formed by remaining I control of the level of intimacy they have with us will destroy them and they then view us as the critical parent. We take on in their mind the role of their superego that punishes the abandoned child this causes the impulsive child to seek out a way to act on their primal impulses as a way to escape and regain composure and form a sense of identity.

[peiper]

From my experience. They NEED attention and validation constantly. It's from the neglect and trauma from when they were a child. In the honeymoon phase... they feel loved, adored, worshipped almost. Once that phase is over, they begin to fear losing you because they don't feel like you love them as much. As they start to feel this, they lose love for you in return (but it wasn't REAL love to begin with). They become controlling so that you won't leave them. After this phase, they start looking for new supply to fulfill their neediness for validation. When they feel like you stop giving them to this, I feel that they turn you into an enemy because you are "abandoning" them... when you really aren't. That's when their pain becomes rage and they hurt you. I truly believe that hurting others makes them feel good, because they believe everyone else should have to suffer the pain that they feel on a daily basis. It is such a sad disorder. Even after having my heart torn out by who I thought was my wife to be... I feel an immense amount of pity for these people. We can move on and in time we get over it and can find happiness. People with this disorder will NEVER be truly happy unless they seek help... even then, it's not guaranteed. Feel sorry for them... because they weren't able to develop the correct coping mechanisms that we did.

this is totally correct imo.  I almost feel sorry for my ex. I suspect he was very neglected as a child and possibly abused too.  His mother never showed any care and concern for him.  In fact she seemed to dislike him very much.  I recognise all the stages described. It all fits in with what i experienced. But i cannot get rid of the anger and hatred for him due to the pain he inflicted on me and seemed to enjoy. I did not deserve that.

I'm with you on that popcorn. By far my childhood was very less then perfect,  but I don't go around hurting people. And when I do inadvertently hurt someone I make amends. Many children have grown up in orphanages , the two I know are very kind human beings. So no, I'm not going to excuse her for what she did. I don't buy into this horse crap that they can't help it because emotionally their a two year old.

[caughtnreleased]

According to James masterson in his book the search for the real self. They replace us to avoid feeling the abandonment depression that they never properly experienced in the pre opiedal stage as a child. At around age 2 a child individuates from their

Mother and experiences an abandonment depression. So they form attachments as a means to avoid feeling the pain associated with abandonment depression people ordinarily experience very early in life. It's all about pain avoidance.

Hmm very interesting. I recently observed this transition with my 3 year old niece. She's come out of it ok and I am observing much more mature behaviour on her part than my BPD ex

[Deeno02]

I never would have left her and her kids. I was going to go totally all in and blend our families. If only she would have helped me as much as I helped her, but she didnt. After all the demands I tried to meet, the schedules she had, the chaos of her 5 kids and running my own house, I couldnt keep up and fight my PTSD from war. I tried so hard and all I ever asked for was some understanding on her part. Some give back. I got nothing but 5 shirts, 2 cups and a once confident warrior shattered to pieces. She gave up on me. So I guess I was a combo, anger at me for whatever problem of the day I caused and desperation because I was driven to withdraw into my self to avoid confrontation. Guess she felt I was pulling away from her, so she had to act. In reality, I was pulling away from myself. Perhaps out of my own survival.