Their "good" and "bad" sides - how to make sense of the extremes

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Four months out of the end of the relationship, and I have spent an inordinate amount of energy trying to understand both my own emotional state and that of my exBPDgf. Particularly difficult has been trying to reconcile how someone who could be so wonderful in so many ways (yes, I said it - and I know that's why I stayed) could turn around and be so utterly horrendous in others.  This dichotomy alone has made my head spin for DAYS - it's like being a relationship with multiple people tucked inside one body.

I just read an article about Schema Therapy by Dr. Jeffery Young and it is AMAZING - I wish I had found it sooner. It explains so very much, and confirms many things I knew and understood intuitively (without ever having the words for it).  I actually think that this may be the beginning of letting go/acceptance for me... .without self-recrimination, without anger, without demonizing, without hoping for a reconnect, without praying that I never "accidentally" run into her... .wow.

https://sites.google.com/site/cognitivetherapycenterofli/self-help-materials/borderline-personality-disorder

and

www.get.gg/schema.htm

and

www.psychcentral.com/news/2014/02/11/new-therapy-shows-promise-for-personality-disorders/65726.html

[jhkbuzz]

Four months out of the end of the relationship, and I have spent an inordinate amount of energy trying to understand both my own emotional state and that of my exBPDgf. Particularly difficult has been trying to reconcile how someone who could be so wonderful in so many ways (yes, I said it - and I know that's why I stayed) could turn around and be so utterly horrendous in others.  This dichotomy alone has made my head spin for DAYS - it's like being a relationship with multiple people tucked inside one body.

I just read an article about Schema Therapy by Dr. Jeffery Young and it is AMAZING - I wish I had found it sooner. It explains so very much, and confirms many things I knew and understood intuitively (without ever having the words for it).  I actually think that this may be the beginning of letting go/acceptance for me... .without self-recrimination, without anger, without demonizing, without hoping for a reconnect, without praying that I never "accidentally" run into her... .wow.

https://sites.google.com/site/cognitivetherapycenterofli/self-help-materials/borderline-personality-disorder

and

www.get.gg/schema.htm

and

www.psychcentral.com/news/2014/02/11/new-therapy-shows-promise-for-personality-disorders/65726.html

[Caredverymuch]

Four months out of the end of the relationship, and I have spent an inordinate amount of energy trying to understand both my own emotional state and that of my exBPDgf. Particularly difficult has been trying to reconcile how someone who could be so wonderful in so many ways (yes, I said it - and I know that's why I stayed) could turn around and be so utterly horrendous in others.  This dichotomy alone has made my head spin for DAYS - it's like being a relationship with multiple people tucked inside one body.

I just read an article about Schema Therapy by Dr. Jeffery Young and it is AMAZING - I wish I had found it sooner. It explains so very much, and confirms many things I knew and understood intuitively (without ever having the words for it).  I actually think that this may be the beginning of letting go/acceptance for me... .without self-recrimination, without anger, without demonizing, without hoping for a reconnect, without praying that I never "accidentally" run into her... .wow.

https://sites.google.com/site/cognitivetherapycenterofli/self-help-materials/borderline-personality-disorder

and

www.get.gg/schema.htm

and

www.psychcentral.com/news/2014/02/11/new-therapy-shows-promise-for-personality-disorders/65726.html

It' like being in two different relationships, the extremes are that great. What helped me on hard days, in addition to the immense knowledge I gained of the disorder here as well a personal inventory along this detachment process, was to remember this:  The BAD and horrifically hurtful behaviors of my expBPD are as much a part of him as the GOOD.  I kept believing, as many of us do here, that the bad was not "really" him, it was due to this or that, but not who he REALLY was.

He WAS that all good partner.  I had blinders on.  I made excuses and did not erect a boundary that was non wavering.  I ignored my gut. He was so needy, so waif like.  I could not wrap my mind around the rest.

As my T said " Why do you go back for more when you know what he is capable of?"

Hard to remember that the extremely hurtful behaviors were indeed emotional abuse.  I did not value myself enough during the r/s and the entire r/s became about him.  There is the dysfunction we need to strongly look at.  Why were we willing to accept abuse and call that love?  We were not victims even though we feel we were.  We stayed for a reason that was entirely our own. There's the work. Don't skip this.

For me, the warm love and caring and unwavering value I gave to him was my unconscious desire to have the very same. What I always wanted and never rec'd in childhood. And my subsequent r/s. To be warmly loved and valued. It's of course a very natural desire in a r/s. In idealization and deep mirroring, I truly believed I found it. I HAD found it. It just was not real. Or sustainable.  For him.

It was real for me though. And, again, the dysfunction comes when we are not receiving the love and respect we deserve in a r/s and we do nothing about it.  We just keep trying to "fix" the other person, to "fix' the situation, to do more good, to love more.  Only seeing the "good" and doing more to care for that "good" person than ourselves.  Being a pleaser, that was much of my life retrospectively.  I was unconsciously taught in my FOO. Keep giving and don't require much in return. Just be a good person. That's our purpose. Do unto others.

You can only do this for so long in life.  It's a wonderful ethic to live by. As long as you are part of the equation, wholly.

I was holding onto my expbd knees to keep that "good."  That "love." That "value."  Ignoring all the dysfunction in blinded hope for the good to return. SO deep in the FOG. Being tipped off kilter continually with the extremes. Love/Hate. Push/Pull.  Giving far too much of myself instead of saying no more! Being petrified to walk away or stay away when he pushed me away in such coldness and devaluation.  Kept seeing only the "good".  There's the addiction component.

This has been the gift of this experience.  I no longer devalue myself that way.  I value myself more today than my entire life.  I understand he is disordered and I understand I was codependant on an illusion/a dream.

That whole person I loved was not just the all good that I so believed. Once that mask becomes too difficult to hold up, that is the whole person.  Remember that person. 

That's who our ex's are.

Now know who you are.  And put the focus there. As well as all the love.

[jhkbuzz]

"It's like being in two different relationships, the extremes are that great. What helped me on hard days, in addition to the immense knowledge I gained of the disorder here as well a personal inventory along this detachment process, was to remember this:  The BAD and horrifically hurtful behaviors of my expBPD are as much a part of him as the GOOD.  I kept believing, as many of us do here, that the bad was not "really" him, it was due to this or that, but not who he REALLY was."

Yes, I've come to accept that reality very recently.  For a VERY long time I only believed in the good - the cognitive dissonance (between the "good and kind" person I believed her to be versus the cold hard truth of her actions) put me in a fog like I've never experienced in my life. But accepting the truth of this reality didn't put me any closer to a solid understanding of why things had unfolded the way they had.  I've felt as though I've had a million puzzle pieces on the table in front of me and, while I could figure out how some fit together, parts and pieces of it were simply beyond my understanding.  Reading the links I provided in my original post has actually enabled me to put many more pieces into place, and I am very, very grateful for the additional understanding.  Perhaps it's just who I am (as an analytical person), but I need a certain level of understanding in order to make peace and then let go.

[antelope]

Particularly difficult has been trying to reconcile how someone who could be so wonderful in so many ways (yes, I said it - and I know that's why I stayed) could turn around and be so utterly horrendous in others.  

as more time passes, and you learn about the disorder, and more importantly, about yourself, you'll realize that after the initial lovefest, the 'wonderful' things were manipulative actions... .breadcrumbs occasionally thrown our way to shroud the bull$h1t we were otherwise enduring, knowingly and unknowingly... .

like the rest of our BPD relationships, there was a whole other world they were living behind our backs or maybe just in another part of their mind that we were never privy too... .their guilt/shame for living these alternate realities (and what they do when we're not looking) can make them feel like they owe you a good time and a smile, so they make themselves wonderful for a little while -- before reverting back to their other reality... .

the vacillating extremes are clear evidence of one thing: BPDs are amazingly consistent... .in their inconsistency

[jhkbuzz]

"Hard to remember that the extremely hurtful behaviors were indeed emotional abuse.  I did not value myself enough during the r/s and the entire r/s became about him.  There is the dysfunction we need to strongly look at.  Why were we willing to accept abuse and call that love?  We were not victims even though we feel we were.  We stayed for a reason that was entirely our own. There's the work. Don't skip this.

For me, the warm love and caring and unwavering value I gave to him was my unconscious desire to have the very same. What I always wanted and never rec'd in childhood. And my subsequent r/s. To be warmly loved and valued. It's of course a very natural desire in a r/s. In idealization and deep mirroring, I truly believed I found it. I HAD found it. It just was not real. Or sustainable.  For him. "

Very good advice... .we can't skip looking at ourselves.  I honestly have never struggled with low self esteem, though, and I've never experienced a relationship like this before.  This is what I can tell you:

• There was a child involved who would have grown up (alone) with my unstable exBPDgf if I had ended it. My conscience struggled mightily with this - I couldn't allow it to happen.



• We had a commitment ceremony - and we committed to one another for life.  I did not take this lightly - my parents have been married for nearly 60 years.



• I really do believe in "for better or for worse" - I just had no idea how truly awful it could get, I really didn't.



• I was in love and found it very difficult to think clearly - for a very long time.

And this is what I've decided:  

• that I am a loyal, committed and trustworthy partner - that's something to be proud of, not ashamed of.



• that, because I decided to put the needs of a child above my own, there is one less screwed-up child in the world.  That is also something to be proud of. The truth is, I was the only stable adult in the household.



• that I was caught up in the "whirlwind" of the initial romance, and that is my responsibility.  I need to understand this disorder clearly enough to make sure that I never again become emotionally involved with someone who is unable to have a mature, loving, adult relationship.
  
  

[Caredverymuch]

"It's like being in two different relationships, the extremes are that great. What helped me on hard days, in addition to the immense knowledge I gained of the disorder here as well a personal inventory along this detachment process, was to remember this:  The BAD and horrifically hurtful behaviors of my expBPD are as much a part of him as the GOOD.  I kept believing, as many of us do here, that the bad was not "really" him, it was due to this or that, but not who he REALLY was."

Yes, I've come to accept that reality very recently.  For a VERY long time I only believed in the good - the cognitive dissonance (between the "good and kind" person I believed her to be versus the cold hard truth of her actions) put me in a fog like I've never experienced in my life. But accepting the truth of this reality didn't put me any closer to a solid understanding of why things had unfolded the way they had.  I've felt as though I've had a million puzzle pieces on the table in front of me and, while I could figure out how some fit together, parts and pieces of it were simply beyond my understanding.  Reading the links I provided in my original post has actually enabled me to put many more pieces into place, and I am very, very grateful for the additional understanding.  Perhaps it's just who I am (as an analytical person), but I need a certain level of understanding in order to make peace and then let go.

I agree. I am the same.  :)epersonalizing such a life changing ( very unhealthy) realatiionship while learning,grieving, feeling all those very real feelings is not an easy task. Even to the intellect.  The heart is involved. The heart has to realize that this person really did not hold the keys to our happiness.  Its a process.  Not for the weak.

[Caredverymuch]

"Hard to remember that the extremely hurtful behaviors were indeed emotional abuse.  I did not value myself enough during the r/s and the entire r/s became about him.  There is the dysfunction we need to strongly look at.  Why were we willing to accept abuse and call that love?  We were not victims even though we feel we were.  We stayed for a reason that was entirely our own. There's the work. Don't skip this.

For me, the warm love and caring and unwavering value I gave to him was my unconscious desire to have the very same. What I always wanted and never rec'd in childhood. And my subsequent r/s. To be warmly loved and valued. It's of course a very natural desire in a r/s. In idealization and deep mirroring, I truly believed I found it. I HAD found it. It just was not real. Or sustainable.  For him. "

Very good advice... .we can't skip looking at ourselves.  I honestly have never struggled with low self esteem, though, and I've never experienced a relationship like this before.  This is what I can tell you:

• There was a child involved who would have grown up (alone) with my unstable exBPDgf if I had ended it. My conscience struggled mightily with this - I couldn't allow it to happen.



• We had a commitment ceremony - and we committed to one another for life.  I did not take this lightly - my parents have been married for nearly 60 years.



• I really do believe in "for better or for worse" - I just had no idea how truly awful it could get, I really didn't.



• I was in love and found it very difficult to think clearly - for a very long time.

And this is what I've decided:  

• that I am a loyal, committed and trustworthy partner - that's something to be proud of, not ashamed of.



• that, because I decided to put the needs of a child above my own, there is one less screwed-up child in the world.  That is also something to be proud of. The truth is, I was the only stable adult in the household.



• that I was caught up in the "whirlwind" of the initial romance, and that is my responsibility.  I need to understand this disorder clearly enough to make sure that I never again become emotionally involved with someone who is unable to have a mature, loving, adult relationship.
  
  

I hold all the same beliefs and values. I dont feel I have low self esteem.  I believe in  commitment. Family. Unconditional ability to love. Children.  So much about who we are is why this process is so painful. There's an abundance of entirely good, loving and deeply caring ppl here who not only are gifts to this universe, they are so entirely good and caring that their hearts are beyond shattered by this experience. Mine included. Your included.

Understanding who we are doesn't make us less in any way.  I think it augments why the r/s happened and why we remain in pain.  But the most important and perhaps last step to embrace is personal inventory and self love.  Or we may remain drawn to emotionally unavailable partners.

[jhkbuzz]

"... their hearts are beyond shattered by this experience. Mine included. Yours included. "

My heart is not beyond shattered - in the end, I won't be defined by this experience, and I won't allow it to prevent me from finding a relationship with someone else who shares the same values that I have - and who is reasonably sane!    I don't say any of this in anger; I just know that I am strong and whole enough to eventually recover. But it is also true that, for me, recovery includes a very large dose of understanding.  Not just of myself, but of her.  When I have been angry about what's happened it's been a useful pain-reliever, but I definitely don't want to stay angry, because that keeps me attached.  What I am striving for is compassionate detachment and healing.

Having said that, what is the personal inventory?

[jhkbuzz]

Particularly difficult has been trying to reconcile how someone who could be so wonderful in so many ways (yes, I said it - and I know that's why I stayed) could turn around and be so utterly horrendous in others.  

as more time passes, and you learn about the disorder, and more importantly, about yourself, you'll realize that after the initial lovefest, the 'wonderful' things were manipulative actions... .breadcrumbs occasionally thrown our way to shroud the bull$h1t we were otherwise enduring, knowingly and unknowingly... .

I'm not sure that it's always so premeditated... .maybe, but maybe not.  I tend to think not.  There have only been a few times in my life that I've been emotionally dysregulated, and they were pure, unadulterated hell.  I can't imagine a lifetime of it.

[Mutt]

There's an abundance of entirely good, loving and deeply caring ppl here who not only are gifts to this universe, they are so entirely good and caring that their hearts are beyond shattered by this experience.

“For my part, I prefer my heart to be broken. It is so lovely, dawn-kaleidoscopic within the crack.”― D.H. Lawrence

I'm not sure that it's always so premeditated... .maybe, but maybe not.  I tend to think not.  There have only been a few times in my life that I've been emotionally dysregulated, and they were pure, unadulterated hell.  I can't imagine a lifetime of it.

I can heal my wounds. I can't imagine a lifetime either.

[antelope]

Particularly difficult has been trying to reconcile how someone who could be so wonderful in so many ways (yes, I said it - and I know that's why I stayed) could turn around and be so utterly horrendous in others.  

as more time passes, and you learn about the disorder, and more importantly, about yourself, you'll realize that after the initial lovefest, the 'wonderful' things were manipulative actions... .breadcrumbs occasionally thrown our way to shroud the bull$h1t we were otherwise enduring, knowingly and unknowingly... .

I'm not sure that it's always so premeditated... .

Intent has very little to do with their actions... .

they do not have the capacity to think ahead of the repercussions of their actions... .their actions are actually reactions... .they react and act out of desperation and fear... .they have learned to explain away their deplorable behavior and put the blame elsewhere b/c it's all they can handle... .looking within would be catastrophic for them

but eventually, the façade becomes too much to maintain, so they resort to manipulative actions, based on what has previously worked for them to get us to comply and agree... .they are so afraid of us finally putting our foot down and saying no, that they will do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening

BPD is a persecution complex... .a complex menu of dysfunctional coping mechanisms in order to prevent themselves and everyone around them from discovering the truth... .they are constantly on guard and hypervigilant towards anything and anyone that may violate that

[billypilgrim]

• We had a commitment ceremony - and we committed to one another for life.  I did not take this lightly
  
  
• I really do believe in "for better or for worse" - I just had no idea how truly awful it could get, I really didn't.



• I was in love and found it very difficult to think clearly - for a very long time.

And this is what I've decided:  

• that I am a loyal, committed and trustworthy partner - that's something to be proud of, not ashamed of.



• that I was caught up in the "whirlwind" of the initial romance, and that is my responsibility.  I need to understand this disorder clearly enough to make sure that I never again become emotionally involved with someone who is unable to have a mature, loving, adult relationship.
  
  

I agree will these wholeheartedly.  In my one real, non-business related conversation I had with her after she left (before I went NC), I asked her what commitment meant to her.  I asked her if our vows meant nothing.  I asked it what it would take from me in order to make this work.  I told her that I took commitment very seriously.  I told her that I only ever wanted the best for her and I tried my very best.  I even apologized for not being able to provide her with the happiness she so desperately seeks .  I hate myself for that conversation.  I hate showing that much vulnerability to someone that doesn't deserve anything more from me.

I think her ideas of commitment are very different from mine - I also think this could probably be expanded even more broadly to BPDs in general.  My exBPD talked about commitment a lot.  It was as if it was something she knew she wanted but there is no way she could ever actually do what it took on her end to make a commitment actually work.  And that's something that I'm just now starting to realize.  If we had issues in our r/s, it was my fault.  She always talked about all of the work she put in - though her actions never matched up - and how I didn't put anything into our relationship.  I had become conditioned to fixing/melding/changing/doing different things each time she was unhappy with the r/s.  I was the only thing that made this last 6 years.  I really have to look out for myself instead of always trying to make sure my partner is happy.

[guy4caligirl]

• We had a commitment ceremony - and we committed to one another for life.  I did not take this lightly
  
  
• I really do believe in "for better or for worse" - I just had no idea how truly awful it could get, I really didn't.



• I was in love and found it very difficult to think clearly - for a very long time.

And this is what I've decided:  

• that I am a loyal, committed and trustworthy partner - that's something to be proud of, not ashamed of.



• that I was caught up in the "whirlwind" of the initial romance, and that is my responsibility.  I need to understand this disorder clearly enough to make sure that I never again become emotionally involved with someone who is unable to have a mature, loving, adult relationship.
  
  

I agree will these wholeheartedly.  In my one real, non-business related conversation I had with her after she left (before I went NC), I asked her what commitment meant to her.  I asked her if our vows meant nothing.  I asked it what it would take from me in order to make this work.  I told her that I took commitment very seriously.  I told her that I only ever wanted the best for her and I tried my very best.  I even apologized for not being able to provide her with the happiness she so desperately seeks .  I hate myself for that conversation.  I hate showing that much vulnerability to someone that doesn't deserve anything more from me.

I think her ideas of commitment are very different from mine - I also think this could probably be expanded even more broadly to BPDs in general.  My exBPD talked about commitment a lot.  It was as if it was something she knew she wanted but there is no way she could ever actually do what it took on her end to make a commitment actually work.  And that's something that I'm just now starting to realize.  If we had issues in our r/s, it was my fault.  She always talked about all of the work she put in - though her actions never matched up - and how I didn't put anything into our relationship.  I had become conditioned to fixing/melding/changing/doing different things each time she was unhappy with the r/s.  I was the only thing that made this last 6 years.  I really have to look out for myself instead of always trying to make sure my partner is happy.

I totally agree with you .

[HappyNihilist]

I just read an article about Schema Therapy by Dr. Jeffery Young and it is AMAZING - I wish I had found it sooner. It explains so very much, and confirms many things I knew and understood intuitively (without ever having the words for it). 

I've been reading about Schema Therapy lately, and it's helped me a lot, too.

I found this to be especially enlightening:

While healthier patients usually have fewer modes, spend longer periods of time in each one, and the modes are less extreme; borderline patients have more modes, switch modes from moment to moment, and the modes are more extreme.  Moreover, when a borderline patient switches into a mode, the other modes seem to vanish.  Unlike healthier people, who can experience two or more modes simultaneously so that one mode moderates the intensity of the other, when borderline patients are in one mode, they seem to have virtually no access to the other modes.  The modes are almost completely dissociated.  Unlike healthier patients, it seems nearly impossible for most borderline patients to experience more than one mode at a time.

And this:

Except for those who are very severe, borderline patients typically spend most of their time in the Detached Protector mode.  The function of this mode is to cut off emotional needs, disconnect from others, and behave submissively in order to avoid punishment.

(Both quotes are from Young and Klosko's article here.)

[jhkbuzz]

Except for those who are very severe, borderline patients typically spend most of their time in the Detached Protector mode.  The function of this mode is to cut off emotional needs, disconnect from others, and behave submissively in order to avoid punishment.

Yes... .I was stunned at the amount of time she could spend completely detached - it scared the living b'jesus out of me, to be honest. The coldness and emptiness deeply frightened me - perhaps because, when she was in a different mode, she came across very warm and filled with emotion.

[downwhim]

I too do not want a lifetime of this! A mature, kind, committed, loving, honest adult would be nice to eventually find... .my problem is trust. I also know I do not want to repeat the pattern so I need to pay attention to   's and my intuition. I thought I had the person to spend my life with but got caught up in the fantasy love fest!

[downwhim]

Commitment obviously meant nothing to my ex. nothing. Yes, he talked about it too and even committed but looking back, he had no intention of following through with it.

It bothers me to read that us nons have the same emotional immaturity that we attract yuck! Work to be done... .

[Mutt]

Commitment obviously meant nothing to my ex. nothing. Yes, he talked about it too and even committed but looking back, he had no intention of following through with it.

It bothers me to read that us nons have the same emotional immaturity that we attract yuck! Work to be done... .

My ex talked about commitment as well and that I wasn't committed enough. I sense she was projecting and there was a little emotional blackmail with guilt.

It really is invalidating and the truth is in the actions not the words. Her actions were having an affair in marriage and leaving with her affair partner. That's not really commitment right? Saying one thing. Doing another.

Everyone has different emotional immaturity. The difference between mine and my exes is that she has emotional arrested development of a 3-4 year old. Not something that she'll grow out of.

[downwhim]

Yes, he often displayed the maturity of a 3 or 4 year old.

Asking someone to marry you one day and then running off with the next available replacement is pathetic. Painful.

I like what evilpepsi said, "I am not going to let this relationship define me."

[Mutt]

It is painful  Not nice!

Wise words from evilpepsi.