SURVEY | Was your relationship ever physically abusive?

[fromheeltoheal]

Lots of energy in this thread.  Talking about intensive issues is always a good thing; we're healin' now peeps!

[Leaving]

I wasn't sure how to answer the poll because my husband has severe passive-aggressive behaviors that he used every day to hurt me in some way instead of directly physically assaulting me.  

However, about once or twice a year, I would finally redline and rage - especially when he would do something to harm our dogs and I would physically attack him. I hated those moments.  Sometimes I felt like I was going to die from the fear or the stress that his behavior caused.

Corporeal or contact abuse was not something my husband would do because it would leave obvious scars and prove his guilt. One of my therapists was a bit concerned that he may eventually become physically violent but I really don't see him doing that.  He seems to get more satisfaction in doing something like pouring toxic poison on the floor board of my car for me to inhale and get sick or accidentally dropping a tree limb on me when pruning a large tree.  Yes, he's actually done both of those things to me.  I would consider them both to be physical abuse but not sure if a professional therapist or the law would.    

[ForeverDad]

I allowed occasional violence while (1) hoping it would not get worse and (2) not finding any way to address it - it slowly but surely took over our lives - the old "frog in a slowly warming pot" analogy - and (3) frankly I couldn't bring myself to tell others.

I stood up to end it when I realized it wasn't going to end without a real boundary and instead had to protect myself from focused attacks that had previously been unfocused or focused on others.

Sadly, doing that forced the end of the marriage and relationship.  It was imploding anyway, but at least I had a measure of control over the implosion's impact on me.  The allegations didn't end, not for several years, but at least I had distance, a real protection.

Like many here, I just couldn't hit back.  Afterward I had to deal with undiagnosed PTSD, gradually recovering from "anxiety".

[Ripped Heart]

For those of us who grew up with physical abuse, can you remember how it made you feel?

Would you really want to impart those feelings onto someone else? Those of us who have suffered in physically abusive relationships, of course we feel that we want to retaliate and there is nothing wrong with feeling that. If we act on those feelings is when our abusers responsibility ends and ours begins and we give them that power that they have pushed us to the point we lose control of ourselves.

Perhaps the hardest but best way to hurt an abuser is to show they have no power or control over us and we do that by staying in control and walking away.

[redbaron5]

Real men don't hit women.  Period.  Surprised this is even being discussed.

It is this type of thinking that has given many women the impunity to act in any manner they seem fit without fear of any type of retribution.

[livednlearned]

We are out of the relationships now.  So now is the time to do the personal inventory and see what is going on with us. I think it is fair to say that if we still find ourselves justifying why we hit our partner - we believe that it is the way to handle frustration.

This is the most important comment in this whole thread.

One of the critical moments for people who experience domestic violence is recognizing that you deserve to have your life be about you. If you are still focusing on the things that your partner did to you, and blame them for making you hit them, then it's still about them. They made you do something. They controlled and dominated you then, and they control and dominate you now. You handled frustration by giving them control over you.

Also, the comment that Skip made about batterers and control and domination is really fascinating in the context of this conversation. I don't believe hitting someone makes you a batterer.

I grew up with uBPD brother and experienced daily, chronic physical abuse. A lot of it was demeaning and humiliating. I don't think there's a wall in my childhood home that my head wasn't slammed into. I have a lot of disassociated close-ups of carpet threads while one part of my body or another was being punched or kicked. I've been tied up, staked to the ground, barricaded in closets, thrown down stairs. It didn't end until I was 25 and he was 26.

I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if one day I snapped and stabbed him with a knife or punched him back. There was about a 80-90 lb difference between us. He played defense in hockey and I am a women's XS, so there was really no contest, and I was too conditioned for too long to never even try to fight back. If I wanted to hurt him, I would need to use something to give myself some kind of advantage, like a rock to his skull.  

So if I hurt him one day, and then someone called me a batterer and said I had a problem with control and domination, that would be confusing, and wouldn't feel right. I would feel like years of his abuse drove me to it, and that I had put up with far worse for a long time, and might, like some of you here have said about your own violence, that my brother had it coming. But I think I would also feel shame for losing control and snapping like that. When you're abused for a really long time, even if the control and domination over you is successful, most victims carve out some kind of area of self-control just so your soul isn't completely crushed. Guys in this thread have said that their exes wanted them to hit them. I completely understand that. There is this really sick thing that happens during chronic abuse where abusers want to see you react, and you try to withhold that from them. I tried as hard as I could to not let my brother see me cry. So for someone to make you hit them -- that's a lot of power. You guys had to be so weak at that moment.

I guess that's what I don't understand in this thread. When someone makes you snap and beat them up, why don't you guys feel shame? Why anger? Someone controlled and dominated you like that. It must be shameful to be a man who lets a woman beat you up or verbally abuse you. I felt a lot of shame having a brother beat me up, and even though I'm a woman, abuse between brother and sister does not exactly make headlines. Only if you understand mental illness does it make any sense. Similar to men hitting mentally ill women. Makes no sense unless you've been there.

So something isn't adding up emotionally here. I think you guys aren't being as honest as you can about your shame. You feel shame not just because you are victims of abuse, but because you aren't being validated? Is that it? This is the only place where other men understand what it's like. So why stay angry? That's what she wants. She wanted to control and dominate you then, and she wants to control and dominate you now.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone here, I'm just trying to match up my experience being abused with yours, and don't understand the defensiveness about hitting someone.

Unless it's fear of feeling shame?

[Pretty Woman]

I used to have horrible anger issues as a child... .kicked holes in the walls... .actually kicked my own mom in the knee... .

she required surgery.

These are not things I am proud of. As I matured I really became almost well a doormat. I never want to get that angry. I know I could. With my ex I let her be mad and didn't raise my voice... .never layed a hand on her.

On me, well I was spit at, pulled by my hair up a flight of stairs and almost had my arm broken.  Months later she actually told me she almost head butted me.

I wish I had stayed out then. I truly did not expect her to come back. Why would I want someone who hurted me? Those are the things I am trying to discover.

[EaglesJuju]

I wish I had stayed out then. I truly did not expect her to come back. Why would I want someone who hurted me? Those are the things I am trying to discover.

I am sorry that you had to endure that.   I understand how scary it is being a victim of physical abuse.


I do not know about your childhood, but many times when growing up in a chaotic environment we can become accustomed to abuse/chaos. It almost becomes normative behavior. For whatever reason (many times love and acceptance) we continue to go back or stay. Many times we are seeking something from our partner that we never got during our childhood.  

[English Sid]

My Asian ex used to come at me with meat cleavers/knifes, pretty scary.

Her eyes were just dark empty soulless pits when she was in a rage.

Got a few scars as memoires.

Could not get cops involved as I live in an Asian country and they don't have a clue on these sort of things.

[crawler]

She used to hit me. Sometimes when she was extremely angry, other times just because she could, I guess. She was way smaller than me when it comes to height, so sometimes she would just hit my body, but she would never shy away from the opportunity to hit me in the head/face. One time on such occasion, she hit me so hard that I started bleeding in the area between my eye and my nose.

As far as my brain lets me remember, she attacked me this way about 5 or 6 times.

Other times, she would throw things at me, which wasn't any less scary.

The biggest issue for me with physical violence is because I thought (and sometimes still do) that I deserved it. I justified the violence because I thought that it was my fault that I got her angry or I hurt her feelings.

[HappyNihilist]

My vote -

I was hit or phys. intimidated by my male partner

No physical intimidation in other romantic relationships

I would also like to offer reassurance that DV shelter staff definitely understand that abuse can be perpetrated by either or both partners - regardless of gender, orientation, age, socioeconomic status, race, etc. I've spent years volunteering with SANE clinics and DV shelters (the irony!), and believe me, these folks see it all. Everyone is given the same support and help. Female-only shelters will make necessary arrangements to accommodate male victims.

[Suspicious1]

My exBPDbf encouraged me to hit him. He was an ex police officer, very into MMA, and he loved trying to teach me to hit. He tried to make me bite all the way through his skin, too. I wouldn't do it though. I actually felt bad because he seemed to SO want me to do it, but I couldn't bring myself to. He might have been bigger and tougher than me, but it felt disrespectful. He did, however, like to talk about how violent his ex wife was, and I wonder now if he'd have painted me with the same brush given half the chance.

He was never physically violent towards me, but emotionally and psychologically he was deliberately brutal.

In my other relationships I've experienced serious sexual assault, so physically it was a much safer relationship for me. Just not mentally.

[ForeverDad]

My exBPDbf encouraged me to hit him... .He did, however, like to talk about how violent his ex wife was, and I wonder now if he'd have painted me with the same brush given half the chance.

You may never find out the full truth about his ex but it is typical for a pwBPD to paint all ended relationships as abusive.  It's an aspect of their all or nothing perceptions.  Since they have a hard time seeing the gray between the good and bad of relationships and Blame-Shifting is a way to avoid accepting fault, ended relationships are described in the negative.  Odds are she wasn't the bad one.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he is now claiming you too, like all his ex-partners, was violent.

[NotEnoughBeer]

The biggest issue for me with physical violence is because I thought (and sometimes still do) that I deserved it. I justified the violence because I thought that it was my fault that I got her angry or I hurt her feelings.

^^ This is why I stayed in an abusive relationship for many years.

[Amber2016]

My current ex on several occasions would drive recklessly to try and intimidate me, throw things and threatened violence that would have put me in hospital, punched me in the arm once which bruised badly although he was contrite about this and slipped out "I never thought that would happen again" suggesting past relationship violence, and once he informed me he was going to smash up my house and proceeded to start on my wardrobes, smashing rails and throwing clothes everywhere. I saw him go for my jewellery and without thinking I leapt in front and slapped him in the face. On another occasion he was saying horrible things and ended with "the most sensible thing I could do right now would be to drop you off a cliff" and I dont know what happened kicked him on the behind. He looked a bit indignant. Violence either way is not acceptable.

[StayStrongNow]

I was punched, kicked, slapped, things thrown at my head (while driving on the tollway going 65 mph). I never fought back. Stopped with bear hugs after the first te I tried to get her to stop I let go and she fell to the floor acting like I threw her.)

She was arrested and charged of two counts of domestic battery. The evidence was wounds she inflicted. I could have had her arrested several more times but I think 3 arrests with four counts is enough my three children see her resisting handcuffs is enough for my children to see mommy doing.

I am a ranked martial artist, I am a long time retired street fighter from the south side of Chicago and I have and will never ever strike a woman under absolutely no circumstances. I leave if I can or use martial art pivot moves to avoid strikes but I was cornered I just covered up and took it. I could not live with myself if I were to strike a woman, I consider this a terrible thing to do.

BPS can be extremely violent, when stressed they are someone else and my estranged wife (yes still in divorce pushing 2 years, that's what her arrests will do delay things) gets seemingly super human strength. Two cops had to lift her over both of their shoulders to the squad car she fought so hard.

Guys don't hit the woman, it's the wrong thing to do no matter what.

[Larmoyant]

I’ve just read this whole thread and I’m not sure why, but it made me sob my heart out.

We were in his car on our way out. Leaving the house, I was happy and he seemed to be too. I was hoping it would be a good afternoon. He stopped to buy a couple of things, but when he came back his mood had changed. He demanded to see my phone which was in my bag and when I refused he tried to grab it. I held on tight. We argued and he drove us back home furious, swaying across traffic still trying to get my bag. He parked in the garage, and luckily for me he left the door open. With the car now stationary he once again tried to grab my bag, but outraged I refused to let it go. I ended up caught between two front seats of his four-wheel drive with my body twisted still clutching my bag. He then put his hands around my throat and I managed to sound the horn with my foot, he let go and I screamed for help. The neighbours came to help me. I was severely bruised and shocked. He later blamed it on me saying I should have given him my bag, but he also said that he was impressed with me for not giving it to him. In hindsight, and for safety, I should have given him the phone and then left. There was nothing for him to see. My body was covered in bruises and he had scratch marks. I was a mess, but I still went back.

Another time it was me who pushed him. We were in his hallway arguing and he was blocking my path to get out. I pushed him in anger and he pushed me back. He is much bigger and stronger and I ended up smashing into a wall. I fell to the floor and then fled terrified into a bedroom. He later said that he was very surprised at his own strength when I went flying and he hadn’t realised it. I believe this. I hurt my back quite badly, but I suffer guilt over this. I pushed first. I was out of my mind with stress and wanted to leave. Did that give me the right to push him? Whose fault was this? His ridiculous accusations and emotional dysregulation that led to the argument or me not being able to control myself that I pushed him first? 

Other than this we didn’t physically fight, probably because I’d become very wary. During an argument once he said he could easily destroy my face, “maim me” he said and that scared me, but other than this we didn’t physically fight. There were however many many arguments that were soul destroying. The verbal, psychological abuse was horrendous and I’m still recovering from it.

So was it my fault that I refused to give him my bag? Was it my fault that I pushed him trying to get away? Did I bring all of this on myself? Were we each to blame? How should I have handled these situations?

These memories are heartbreaking and painful. How can I ever trust anyone again.

[Unreal]

Just read through this thread. I haven't really posted here in years. But thought of violence from my ex wife recently and popped on here and saw this thread. Though no one here likely remembers me, I will state my life is going really well. I'm remarried; have been for 7 years. We have children. My wife is emotionally stable, and sweet. There, in the time from our dating to present, has been zero abuse. No violence. No name calling. Hardly ever a raised voice. Healthy arguing style to the point where I'm not even sure I'd classify these engagements as arguments. I am happy.

Someone brought up murder, that if you kill someone you are a murderer. But, that's not true. If your life is in danger or the life of a family member, you can kill someone and it's perfectly legal. You will not be labeled a murder. In some states, there are stand your ground laws. Conceptually, responding to violence with violence really shouldn't ethically/morally place someone in the "batterer" or "abuser" camp.

In my opinion, physical violence is wrong. In the case of two adults, it is equally wrong for a man to hit a woman as it is for a woman to hit a man. There was frequent violence in my marriage to my ex wife. That violence included her breaking my stuff, threatening me, threatening to break my stuff, digging her nails into my skin, kicking me, pulling my hair, punching me in the face, hitting me with objects, taking my food away from me and crushing it, turning on lights and television at high volume in the middle of the night, taking blankets off me aggressively to wake me up to yell at me, yelling in my face and spitting on me.

Some here have stated, you walk away. In the moment with her, that was not possible. She'd take my keys and/or my glasses and threaten to destroy things important to me. She'd block doorways. I experienced a huge amount of frustration associated with these situations. Did I feel like my life was in danger? No. Did these arguments go on for hours? Yes. Did I feel fairly hopeless in getting her to stop and leave me alone? Yes.

I don't remember ever hitting her. She did get injured occasionally in the confrontations. For example, she kicked me and I caught her foot and she fell and claims to have hurt her tailbone. I tried to stay away from her or restrain her. But restraining someone that is actively trying to do damage is not easy to do entirely calmly. Very challenging. I do remember feeling a helpless rage. She was athletic but I was a physically powerful human being. It would have been nothing for me to knock her out. And I'd like to think most watching a video of our encounters would likely find that a reasonable solution. I never did it. Anyway, she would have answered yes to male on female violence based on my restraining her, situations like that kick I described, and me pushing past her to get out of rooms.

I don't think it's so easy as to say that "under no circumstances does a man hit a woman."  Frankly, in my opinion, were she a man I think you'd have near universal agreement that she deserved to get knocked out.  I don't think that's a practical perspective for a man to have though. And i believe had I done so or if she thought she could prove I attacked her, she'd have tried to get me prosecuted.

The bottom line to me is that it is not safe or healthy to stay in a relationship that has violence in it.  It took me a while to get my bearings and get out. That was my biggest "sin" in the relationship (not leaving it quicker). Not anything I did in response to her assaulting me.

[clarity18]

I'm intrigued that most posters are men who "wouldn't hit a woman" as though this is a logical, ethical issue. I am a lesbian, and all I can say is we both went at it, kicking, punching, scratching. It was horrible, and I was arrested after she called the police on me. This occurred when I hit her as she ripped off my shirt and blocked the door telling me I could not go to work. Unfortunately, in my experience, BPD relationships often escalate to violence or the threat of violence. So, if women are not supposed to be hit, what's the moral rule for lesbians? 

[hurting300]

I'm intrigued that most posters are men who "wouldn't hit a woman" as though this is a logical, ethical issue. I am a lesbian, and all I can say is we both went at it, kicking, punching, scratching. It was horrible, and I was arrested after she called the police on me. This occurred when I hit her as she ripped off my shirt and blocked the door telling me I could not go to work. Unfortunately, in my experience, BPD relationships often escalate to violence or the threat of violence. So, if women are not supposed to be hit, what's the moral rule for lesbians? 

Man or Woman. If they try hurting me I'm fighting back.

[toomanydogs]

I responded that I was "hit or physically intimidated" by my H. He never "hit" me, but the reason I answered as I did is that he definitely physically intimidated me.

He is close to 6 ft, close to 200 pounds, and in his 40s. I am under 5 ft, closer to 100, and in my 60s.

When he had a psychotic break (and at the time it was attributed to schizophrenia, but it very could have been BPD or the 60+ tabs of Benadryl he was taking--daily), he spit tobacco in my fact. The first time was accidental, and I must have looked like Gene Wilder in the Producers. I jumped up and down screaming, "You just spit tobacco in my face." So he did it again; this time it got in my eye. It stung like a mf*****. Calmed me down immediately, got me to assess my situation. He was blocking the door. I kicked into survival mode--how do I get out of here unhurt (except for my eye stinging?).

I didn't back away from him because I thought that might make him feel more powerful, instead I told him very calmly that I needed to get outside, so that I could get calm again, and let's try to work together, so we could both feel better.

That worked. Not that it would work again if I were in a similar situation. Who knows? But what I did after that is make sure he never blocked my way out. For the record, I don't think in this case he intentionally blocked my way. It was scary nonetheless. Very scary.

The first few years together, when we'd fight, he would constantly tell me to him him. "Hit me. Hit me. I know you want to. Just go ahead and do it."

What was weird/what is weird is that I never even spanked my kids. I'm not a person who hits people. So I don't sound like I'm this perfect person here, I do get angry and have gotten very angry with him. I was aiming for an 80/20 rule (per T's suggestion) that if I could hold myself together, be nonreactive for 80% of the time, be supportive 80% of the time, then the r'ship should be able to sustain the 20%.

When I blew, I did so pretty dramatically verbally. I didn't call him names as he did with me, but I was more the "Who the f*** do you think you are like acting like that? You can't call me (or fill in the blank) a c***."

Another time, I was yelling at him, and he pointed to the headphones he was wearing, indicating that he couldn't hear. I pulled the headphones away from his ears, telling him to get the GD things off.

Wow. I write this and all I can think is how much calmer my life is without him here (he's been gone for more than a month. No idea where he is. Supposedly he's "safe," according to his P.)

For all you Roy Clark fans, may I add, "Thank God and Greyhound he's gone."

:D

[Turkish]

toomanydogs

Spitting on someone is criminal assault in the USA.  And with a toxic substances even. 

He assaulted you. 

[Carterbc]

She (my BPD wife), hit me a lot over the years, but the worse thing she did was spit in my face (twice). Found it so degrading and disgusting. Didn't realize spitting is also considered criminal assault. Of course I didn't lay charges, the police would believe her denials, and she might even lie (given her BPD), and say I hit her instead, and guess who would be taken away in handcuffs... .

[Husband321]

Is hitting a way to respect with animals or people? I haven't ever used it.

What do you think? Sounds like you support a little intimidation from time to time.

Good question. I will be interested to hear what others say.

I don't think the initiation of force or coercion ever has a good long term outcome.

I would never be with someone who spanked their kids.  Or hit them. That's just me.

However while growing up we learn to stand up to bullies.  If a bully hits you, you hit him back.  Self defense.  Maybe if your new dog latched into your leg and was biting you you might hit him to get him off.

If you are a protected member of society (a woman) then you should never initiate physical violence.  If you do, then who you hit should be able to defend themselves and hit you back.

In the case of my BPD ex, and I am sure many other BPD women, they are enabled by the law to behave as they wish.  While she also called the police on every man she ever seriously dated.

So that is what my BPD ex has learned from 16 until 32 years old. It's ok to hit men.  They won't hit back.  The law is on your side. And she goes further and further.  Unfortunately she was hit and spanked as a child.  

I do wonder what that feels like and how that changes the relationship dynamic. A weaker woman, who has a pre conceived notion of what a "man" is, who hits the man ,  with the man then being even more afraid she will call the police.

But one day, if she comes across the wrong man, that man might not be so nice.  And she will be one of those statistics. And people will call or for "more laws" to protect women.

[Skip]

If you are a protected member of society (a woman) then you should never initiate physical violence.  If you do, then who you hit should be able to defend themselves and hit you back.

Surely everyone is entitled to defend themselves against a mortal attack (gun, knife, etc.), but when it comes to slapping and punching... .

... .is that a practical solution? How does a policeman figure out who hit who first? What is an appropriate hitting response?

Remember Ray Rice? Ray Rice's girlfriend was arguing with him, hit him, spit in his face... .and he then knocked her out.


Date: 10-2014Minutes: 11:13
Ray Rice Knocks Out His Fiancee

[Husband321]

Surely everyone is entitled to defend themselves against a mortal attack (gun, knife, etc.), but when it comes to slapping and punching... .

... .is that a practical solution? How does a policeman figure out who hit who first? What is an appropriate hitting response?

Remember Ray Rice? Ray Rice's girlfriend was arguing with him, hit him, spit in his face... .and he then knocked her out.

<iframe width="320" height="200" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/i_H4XGk0XJU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Date: 10-2014Minutes: 11:13
Ray Rice Knocks Out His Fiancee

Maybe this is beyond the scope of the board, but these are my thoughts...

We have 2 things... .Romantic relationships that are as old as the beginning of time. And a federal govt consisting of 535 people that pass blanket laws that affect 350 million people.

So as people, we are still hard wired a certain way, but we must conform to knew and changing laws.

Now one couple might read books to each other every night. Go to bed at 7. Not drink. And spend their weekends picking out a book at barnes and Nobles. Maybe they have sex once a month.

Another couple can consist of 2 tiredly different people. They might both have a ton of energy and passion. They might have sex 3 times a day. They might choose to party, drink, and at times that extreme passion flows over into drama and altercations.

So of course, the later couple might actually "enjoy" a DV type relationship. You cant have all the ups without some of the downs.  

In the latter relationship, is the woman "abused" if she is hit? Is the man?  Who is to judge them?
They clearly don't have to be together, but they choose to.

Clearly Ray Rice and his gf have to be together. They want to. She even married him after this incident. And he married her. Is it not their right to live how they choose?

Going further, assuming they must be together, how would she view Ray IF he cowered away after being spit on. If he actually apologized to her, for her hitting him. If he ran away... .She might lose total respect for him. And do it more and more and more. Many men and especially women feel alive with drama.

I saw this little "abuse " wheel, that dictates what abuse is... . And it basically means every single relationship on earth is abusive now...  If you complain about how your partner spends money... If you have a say as to who their friends are... If you act differently for being denied sex... etc etc...

So I wonder, innately, through evolution, are women wired a certain way to respect force?  Especially BPD women?  A strong man?  I mean could you picture Clint Eastwood getting beat up by a gf and calling an abuse hotline.  

How much has a govt changed the male female dynamic so that nobody is happy?  

[kay2]

This is my first day of initiating no contact so its a rough one but wanted to answer this thread. I am deeply ashamed to say my ex would push me so hard and not let up for hours that on three occasions i struck out at her in shear desperation. The shame was horrible but i was unable to walk away. She would hide my car keys or lock me in a room or physically block my way. Then she would be the victim of the situation and i would be made to feel like a monster.

[Zen606]

No hitting for me. One inkling of this and I'm out the door so fast. I had to live with domestic violence as a kid. My mother could have qualified for a BPD diagnosis, she hit all of us including my dad. She was a violent person with her hands and words. Had enough of that to last me a lifetime.

Zen606

[Zen606]

Hi Kay2,
What you describe reminds me of my mom and dad. She was violent -- could have met the BPD criteria easily -- and my dad was scared of her. When I read "Understanding the Borderline Mother" I saw my parents in practically every page. He enabled her in the abuse of all of us, he tolerated his own abuse and never hit her,  although as  a kid I would pray that he would.
Zen606

[vale46]

No, mine was never physical. It was all completely mental. Everything she did was to torment me to beyond what anyone could suffer and i'll never forgive her for that. She knew what she was doing and that was an eye opener to who this person really was in the end. A manipulative, compulsive liar who had a guy on every street corner. Good riddance to bad rubbish.