I figured it all out. There is no more confusion.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This post is more about me "talking outloud" I find when I write about this relationship, I feel better.

My relationship went down like so many here. She was beautiful, she was smart, she was sexy, we had a great connection. And then the wheels fell off.

I spent time on several forums here. I was cheated on twice that I know of and I rode the roller coaster of emotional peaks and unrivaled low points for well over a year. I too, like so many here, had the confusion, the denial, the fixer reflex to somehow love her to healthy and rescue her from herself. I loved, I was hurt, I loved harder. We were broken from her behaviors, and I tried to fix things. I believed in her with a dangerous level of hope and optimism. Ultimately, things went exactly the way everything I read said they would go.

The way our relationship ended, I was able to save my dignity. It wasn't a cheating blow out or an abrupt discard. It was me, little by little (through education and a lot of you people here whose names Ill never be able to reference to thank you) that I snapped from my hyper fixation on trying to "fix" our relationship. I became more assertive. I explored the depths of myself, my core values (which were obliterated countless times) and was able to begin setting boundaries.

After one of her famous "shunning" episodes because I somehow failed to do something according to her immediate compliance demands, I pushed back. I broke up with her. She didn't believe me, I had cried wolf one too many times. But then she realized I was serious. I realized she had told me everything I needed to know. You see, as I strived more and more to communicate how great things could be if we had more reciprocation, and balance, how we could have a really healthy relationship. How I'm not out to hurt her, and I have proven my loyalty even throughout her betrayal. She didn't have to control things, she could let go. I asked her, what do we have to lose, let's just try things that way. It sounded great, she even was in agreement with everything I said. Yet she could never relinquish her unmitigated need to control and dictate every situation enough to be vulnerable and really invest. There was never any action. There was silence and her pulling away. She would wait until I would finally give up holding my line I drew, and ultimately forget the requests I made for action.

I told her I needed space. She said she still wanted to see me and talk to me. I said "Why?" You are telling me you can't give me any compromise, you can't give me the relationship you used to think you could, why do you want to see me still? her response "Because I really care about you."  What... .? 

It was then I just had this moment where all the education I did, all the ruminating and everything that went down meshed. An infinite amount of data points in my mind connected instantly through space and time, like a puzzle that automatically put itself together as to finally see the picture of what was going on. I think sometimes we know it. Sometimes we see it. But doing both of these things at a precise moment when you've peeled back the defense of denial is the singular moment when it really "hits" home.

If she loved me. If she wanted me around. If she wanted to continue seeing me and being with me, she would have tried to work on us. If she didn't want to be with me though, then why did she still want these things?

Here is my final clarity and the coldness that it paints this person who I once adored is hard to write, and hard to comprehend. But it's factual. I feel fortunate that I get it. That I understand her now. Completely. Probably better than she understands herself.


Here is our relationship not in my clouded world, but the way it really went down without all the fog:



When we met she was separated yet not divorced. She had taken a huge blow to her ego by being rejected by her now ex husband. This was the ultimate loss of control. This is why she sought a relationship so soon. It was not to find love, it was to regain control and to self validate. To prove to herself she could be desired. To find a new source of the supply that was lacking to the point of debilitation.

She cried one time in the beginning because I went to the store. She wanted to hang out with me. When I took things slow because I was worried about the things she was going through she pushed harder for a physical relationship. The more I kept things slow, and stopped her advances the more she sought to hook me. She was desperate for validation. She needed someone to control.

I was love bombed into oblivion. I was smitten in a way I never had been before. It was an incredible rush. We took trips, we talked for hours and we had amazing conversations. I was validating to her that she was still desirable. The moment I let my guard down, she pulled away. It was her first test to see how well she had controlled me. She cheated on me twice, I found out. She said two really bizarre things to me then I never understood. One was "This can't be over. It's not over yet. I need this. I need you." She also said "I could tell by the hurt in your eyes how much you love me and it made me so sad."  These statements can be translated to the fact I validated her self worth through her ability to cause pain in my life. And the type of rush she felt meant she needed more of it. I was confirmed as a great hit of narcissistic supply. She wasn't done yet. She needed more.

She reverted back to the first phase and things were really great for several months. The moment I was back under her spell she began being nasty. The no win situations, the egg shells when she was stressed, the contradictions, the triangulation, the last minute cancellations. She was enjoying so much keeping me on edge all the time. This is an oversimplification of how nasty and cruel she was during this phase.

When I stopped complying and began asking for my own needs to be met, for balance, and for her to follow through with all the promises she made me, she began devaluing me. She did this through cold shoulder and distancing maneuvers. The anger it provoked in me, she'd use against me as her reasoning.

When I finally broke it off and went No Contact after she basically told me she could never give me the relationship I want, I found out she hung out with that same kid again she cheated on the first time. This was her desperation for any hit of attention with an added twist of payback by going to the very person who caused me so much grief the first time around.

She wanted me back. She told me how frustrated she was and how cruel I was for changing my number. She showed up at my house several times desperate to see and talk to me. I asked why. She said because she cares about me so much. When I pointed out that if she cared about me why can't she just try and work on things, she would never answer. I asked her what she wanted from me. She said, please unblock me. I want to still see you. I'm attracted to you. I still want to see and talk to you.  When I told her that I needed time to classify her as a friend first and perhaps someday we could talk, she said "I don't want you to think of me as a friend" Again when I pointed out the contradiction of telling me she wants me, yet doesn't because she won't work on things, she again offered no response.

It was in this moment I realized that she does not love me. I'm an object to her. I provide her with attention, validation and a platform with which to feed her need to control and dump her toxicity on while escaping any accountability. She doesn't want me back, because she isn't even willing to try. It's not about me and my wants, it's about her need to feel in control.

I put her in a position much like that which I found her when we first met. She was feeling rejected, lost control over things and the person who validated her is now saying they don't want her anymore. So desperate to avoid this ego hit again, she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her. I broke things off with her first. And in doing so she wanted me back for no other reason than to be the one who discarded me first.

I'm grateful that I didn't give her that satisfaction. These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were.

[anxiety5]

This post is more about me "talking outloud" I find when I write about this relationship, I feel better.

My relationship went down like so many here. She was beautiful, she was smart, she was sexy, we had a great connection. And then the wheels fell off.

I spent time on several forums here. I was cheated on twice that I know of and I rode the roller coaster of emotional peaks and unrivaled low points for well over a year. I too, like so many here, had the confusion, the denial, the fixer reflex to somehow love her to healthy and rescue her from herself. I loved, I was hurt, I loved harder. We were broken from her behaviors, and I tried to fix things. I believed in her with a dangerous level of hope and optimism. Ultimately, things went exactly the way everything I read said they would go.

The way our relationship ended, I was able to save my dignity. It wasn't a cheating blow out or an abrupt discard. It was me, little by little (through education and a lot of you people here whose names Ill never be able to reference to thank you) that I snapped from my hyper fixation on trying to "fix" our relationship. I became more assertive. I explored the depths of myself, my core values (which were obliterated countless times) and was able to begin setting boundaries.

After one of her famous "shunning" episodes because I somehow failed to do something according to her immediate compliance demands, I pushed back. I broke up with her. She didn't believe me, I had cried wolf one too many times. But then she realized I was serious. I realized she had told me everything I needed to know. You see, as I strived more and more to communicate how great things could be if we had more reciprocation, and balance, how we could have a really healthy relationship. How I'm not out to hurt her, and I have proven my loyalty even throughout her betrayal. She didn't have to control things, she could let go. I asked her, what do we have to lose, let's just try things that way. It sounded great, she even was in agreement with everything I said. Yet she could never relinquish her unmitigated need to control and dictate every situation enough to be vulnerable and really invest. There was never any action. There was silence and her pulling away. She would wait until I would finally give up holding my line I drew, and ultimately forget the requests I made for action.

I told her I needed space. She said she still wanted to see me and talk to me. I said "Why?" You are telling me you can't give me any compromise, you can't give me the relationship you used to think you could, why do you want to see me still? her response "Because I really care about you."  What... .? 

It was then I just had this moment where all the education I did, all the ruminating and everything that went down meshed. An infinite amount of data points in my mind connected instantly through space and time, like a puzzle that automatically put itself together as to finally see the picture of what was going on. I think sometimes we know it. Sometimes we see it. But doing both of these things at a precise moment when you've peeled back the defense of denial is the singular moment when it really "hits" home.

If she loved me. If she wanted me around. If she wanted to continue seeing me and being with me, she would have tried to work on us. If she didn't want to be with me though, then why did she still want these things?

Here is my final clarity and the coldness that it paints this person who I once adored is hard to write, and hard to comprehend. But it's factual. I feel fortunate that I get it. That I understand her now. Completely. Probably better than she understands herself.


Here is our relationship not in my clouded world, but the way it really went down without all the fog:



When we met she was separated yet not divorced. She had taken a huge blow to her ego by being rejected by her now ex husband. This was the ultimate loss of control. This is why she sought a relationship so soon. It was not to find love, it was to regain control and to self validate. To prove to herself she could be desired. To find a new source of the supply that was lacking to the point of debilitation.

She cried one time in the beginning because I went to the store. She wanted to hang out with me. When I took things slow because I was worried about the things she was going through she pushed harder for a physical relationship. The more I kept things slow, and stopped her advances the more she sought to hook me. She was desperate for validation. She needed someone to control.

I was love bombed into oblivion. I was smitten in a way I never had been before. It was an incredible rush. We took trips, we talked for hours and we had amazing conversations. I was validating to her that she was still desirable. The moment I let my guard down, she pulled away. It was her first test to see how well she had controlled me. She cheated on me twice, I found out. She said two really bizarre things to me then I never understood. One was "This can't be over. It's not over yet. I need this. I need you." She also said "I could tell by the hurt in your eyes how much you love me and it made me so sad."  These statements can be translated to the fact I validated her self worth through her ability to cause pain in my life. And the type of rush she felt meant she needed more of it. I was confirmed as a great hit of narcissistic supply. She wasn't done yet. She needed more.

She reverted back to the first phase and things were really great for several months. The moment I was back under her spell she began being nasty. The no win situations, the egg shells when she was stressed, the contradictions, the triangulation, the last minute cancellations. She was enjoying so much keeping me on edge all the time. This is an oversimplification of how nasty and cruel she was during this phase.

When I stopped complying and began asking for my own needs to be met, for balance, and for her to follow through with all the promises she made me, she began devaluing me. She did this through cold shoulder and distancing maneuvers. The anger it provoked in me, she'd use against me as her reasoning.

When I finally broke it off and went No Contact after she basically told me she could never give me the relationship I want, I found out she hung out with that same kid again she cheated on the first time. This was her desperation for any hit of attention with an added twist of payback by going to the very person who caused me so much grief the first time around.

She wanted me back. She told me how frustrated she was and how cruel I was for changing my number. She showed up at my house several times desperate to see and talk to me. I asked why. She said because she cares about me so much. When I pointed out that if she cared about me why can't she just try and work on things, she would never answer. I asked her what she wanted from me. She said, please unblock me. I want to still see you. I'm attracted to you. I still want to see and talk to you.  When I told her that I needed time to classify her as a friend first and perhaps someday we could talk, she said "I don't want you to think of me as a friend" Again when I pointed out the contradiction of telling me she wants me, yet doesn't because she won't work on things, she again offered no response.

It was in this moment I realized that she does not love me. I'm an object to her. I provide her with attention, validation and a platform with which to feed her need to control and dump her toxicity on while escaping any accountability. She doesn't want me back, because she isn't even willing to try. It's not about me and my wants, it's about her need to feel in control.

I put her in a position much like that which I found her when we first met. She was feeling rejected, lost control over things and the person who validated her is now saying they don't want her anymore. So desperate to avoid this ego hit again, she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her. I broke things off with her first. And in doing so she wanted me back for no other reason than to be the one who discarded me first.

I'm grateful that I didn't give her that satisfaction. These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were.

[hope2727]

Wow. That is really powerful. Thank you for sharing.

[Caredverymuch]

This post is more about me "talking outloud" I find when I write about this relationship, I feel better.

she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her. I broke things off with her first. And in doing so she wanted me back for no other reason than to be the one who discarded me first. [/b]

I'm grateful that I didn't give her that satisfaction. These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were.

You are very insightful. It has served you well to maintain NC. Good for you anxiety! The above is absolutely valid. I believe this is exactly what happened in my situation as well.  They somehow need to be the one who discards. And cannot fathom the reality that they have been. Finally.

[ShadowIntheNight]

Here is our relationship not in my clouded world, but the way it really went down without all the fog:



She had taken a huge blow to her ego by being rejected by her now ex husband. This was the ultimate loss of control. This is why she sought a relationship so soon. It was not to find love, it was to regain control and to self validate. To prove to herself she could be desired. To find a new source of the supply that was lacking to the point of debilitation.

You know this is similar to my uBPDexgf. Last April she finally received a judge's verdict on an extended, prolonged custody battle with her exH. They have been divorced 10 yrs and we were together for 9.5 yrs. He has been remarried almost 5 yrs now. When we first met 10 yrs ago now, she was depressed and ego-busted from the exH. She is the one who filed for divorce and hated his guts.she even told me that the whole time she was married she had determined when she got enough money she was divorcing him.

Fast forward this past April, instead of the resounding victory she felt sure she would receive in court and they would see what a horrid father he was and how she would be a dynamo on the witness stand and blow him to kingdom come, she literally is lucky she didn't lose custody of her kids.

I have no idea what happened, but instead of being awarded any additional child support, it was cut in half. The exH got more custody with the kids and literally she lost just about most of the advantages she had previously enjoyed. She even has to go to court-ordered counseling with him. AFTER 10 YRS! Can't even believe that one. What she said to me when she was telling me about the decision makes me sick to my stomach still. Basically she said she would find a man to pay for her kids education and she'd screw him to get it. I kid you not. I still can't comprehend such words, nor the thoughts that could form them.

But I have started thinking that her ego felt so busted by the stunning loss, that she had to find a way to find that she was still desirable to some man. Probably any man. Rather than come to me for comfort (I am a woman, we were in a lesbian relat all those yrs), she needed a stranger and it had to be a man because she was rejected by them.

This whole thing is totally illogical to me. Why run to the arms of a stranger? Because clearly I meant no more to her than a warm body for the time being. And your analysis now makes me realize she will continue the same pattern because people will always disappoint you. And at some point whomever her hero is now, he's gonna slip up and say something that busts her ego, and off she'll be again.

[downwhim]

Anxiety,

Thank you so much for writing your story. So many parts duplicated my experience.

"She reverted back to the first phase and things were really great for several months. The moment I was back under her spell she began being nasty. The no win situations, the egg shells when she was stressed, the contradictions, the triangulation, the last minute cancellations. She was enjoying so much keeping me on edge all the time. This is an oversimplification of how nasty and cruel she was during this phase."

This was the last month of our relationship except for the triangulation. Cancelling last minute to a fancy wedding at a hotel, raging so I was walking on eggshells, nice then cruel. During this month he asked me to move in. Hard to figure that one out... .so I could live in fear?

Your story is a reminder off all we have been through. She has so many of the typical traits. I think my exBPD fiancé wanted to hurry and end it before I did too so he could show control.

[Spartacus]

Thanks for posting, Anxiety. I'm glad you've come to such a good place of awareness. It really helped to read your post and it is extraordinary how formulaic BPD behavior is. You described my situation to a tee although I never thought of her cheating or proved any of it. It does seem so selfish but at its root is an absolute desperation to fulfil their needs.

My uBPDw would regularly gaslight when we were at our happiest. Then spin it to be my fault, break up and I would obligingly apologize, too willing to accept the blame and try to fix things. When I had done this sufficiently she would re-engage, even offer an apology of her own, I'd be painted white again, hooked. She even said how much closer we would become after each upset/resolution and it was good and normal to go through these intense moments. I now see it as trauma bonding.

It is so good to be clear of the fog and to recognize that for her the relationship was really all about her, despite all her noise to all who will listen about how much she cares for me. I left her because I was so distressed by her crazy-making, uncompromising and hypocritical behavior that I needed to get some distance to think for myself.

Her parents recently left a box of my stuff, the last I hope, packed by my uBPDw. They believe everything she has blackened me with and her father has openly come to my workplace and shouted that I need serious medical help. The reason I mention this is because of your realization 'she does not love me'. I have just gone through the contents of the box where she has returned all the gifts my parents gave her over the years (she blackened them ages ago), half used candle stumps, empty shower gels which I must have bought, but the bit that made me choke and have the same realization as you was in a DVD case. In it was a printout of a pregnancy scan, showing a 4 week old fertilized egg. The pregnancy failed after the 5th week, which I understand is fairly common, but she took this very hard as did I. This was over a year and a half ago so why bring that up now? She knew how upsetting that time was for us and that I tried to support her through it. Part of her painting me black has been to email all my friends and family saying that I am not stable/ potentially suicidal. I am not and am in good contact with all of them. But the last little piece in the box was a calling card for the Samaritans. I can only guess at her twisted mind but putting it together I think she is provoking me either into enraged contact with her or to the brink of contemplating suicide. Either way it's sick and almost got me angry. I will not break NC. I went for a beautiful walk in the sunshine and thought how sad it must be to want to hurt someone in that way. She certainly doesn't love me or care for me. The good thing is I hope this is her final realization that it is definitely over which in 7 months nc I don't think she got.

Sorry for the rant. Not sure how much sense it made. This community is such a great place.

[raisins3142]

Great read.  I will revisit and read again.

I had a similar "all stars align" moment.  A few weeks prior I had unearthed a bunch of lies, and she knew my trust was shot and she better be on her best behavior.  We went to a bar (bad environment for her, but thank goodness we did) and a strange man approached her while she was away from me to go to the bathroom or something.  She melted into talking to him and did her flirty thing for way too long and began moving closer and closer to him.  I looked at her face as it danced around in her fake/sincerely enthralled by new male attention/odd seductive and flirtatious dance.  How she hadn't even glanced away in 15 minutes and had no idea where I was even at, and we had come there alone and together.  How this guy was obviously hitting on her, and she either didn't know or care and certainly didn't care what I'd think and that maybe she had spoken with him in that way a bit too long.  And I just knew "this girl is not capable of acting like a person I'd want to be with because her brain just doesn't work like mine does at all".  Broke up within 15 minutes of that.

[Blimblam]

Anxiety,

Seems like your doing a lot of self reflecting which is Awsome.



Here is some food for thought though.  It could be that maybe she does care about you and love you but her disorder which is deeply ingrained ego defence  mechenisms and she simply can not see past them.  That her emotionally arrested development prevents her from being able to comprehend the concepts you were trying to convey to her.  That what she probably picked up on in that moment is that she failed you because there is something wrong with Her and might lose you because of it.  The kind of fear a child has  of being abandoned in the Alaskan wilderness.  

[Technique]

My relationship went down like so many here. She was beautiful, she was smart, she was sexy, we had a great connection. And then the wheels fell off.

+1 my friend... Your story reflects mine almost to a T. I admire you and the strength you've illustrated.

[anxiety5]

Anxiety,

Seems like your doing a lot of self reflecting which is Awsome.



Here is some food for thought though.  It could be that maybe she does care about you and love you but her disorder which is deeply ingrained ego defence  mechenisms and she simply can not see past them.  That her emotionally arrested development prevents her from being able to comprehend the concepts you were trying to convey to her.  That what she probably picked up on in that moment is that she failed you because there is something wrong with Her and might lose you because of it.  The kind of fear a child has  of being abandoned in the Alaskan wilderness. 

I don't disagree with your input. My seemingly detached description of her as if she is a science experiment serves a purpose. When I used to pity her, I'd regress into making excuses for her. When I'd make excuses for her, I'd become weak, I'd assume blame for things I shouldn't and I did not properly enforce boundaries (how can you enforce boundaries with someone who isn't capable of understanding their own behavior) This caused me to lose myself, to remain weak and to simply begin accepting a future of betrayal and hurt. Iam compassionate. If I had one wish, it would be to some how cure her of all of this maddening nonsense. Not even for me, but for her child. Even if someone told me I could have that wish, but in doing so I couldn't have her, I'd agree to it. Point being my motives are sincere. I feel sorry for her and even if it meant I could never see her again, or reap the rewards of her being miraculously "cured" I'd still wish for it because it hurts me to know that she could have such a happy life, but is her own worst enemy.

That being said, ignorance is only bliss when you remain unaware. Once enlightened, you must take actions to make smart decisions regarding my future. You wouldn't fault someone for sleeping next to a Lion if they didn't know any better. Some days would be good, but at any given moment for no reason a beautiful, graceful animal may wake up and decide to consume you. Once you have managed to become enlightened, you may have injuries from the Lion but you've managed to survive without being eaten. You may not hold any resentment for the animal. It doesn't know any better. It's not necessarily personal. But either way, it does not change the fact that if you choose to sleep next to it another night, you very well may never wake up. You can still appreciate the Lion for it's beauty, for it's characteristics of strength and mite, it may not hate you, infact it may enjoy your company very much. But the facts are, it's dangerous for me as a person to remain in close contact with it. So my only choice is to not be blinded by it's beauty, or moments of grace, but instead focus on the knowledge I have gained in knowing that it will eventually eat me alive.

Crazy analogy but you get my point.

[anxiety5]

You described my situation to a tee although I never thought of her cheating or proved any of it.

I would have never known about the cheating either. Let me tell you this. If your gut instinct told you she was, than my friend, she was. After she stood me about a year ago, totally out of nowhere (we hadn't even fought at this point once) I got that gnawing sense that there was more to this than simply having too much to drink and forgetting to call, or answer her phone. When her behavior continued after this event in a distancing manor, I became hyperaware and was paying attention to things. A month later she picked a fight with me out of nowhere and cancelled plans with me on a Friday. Work had been stressful for her all week and I planned a fun night out at the place we had our first date, a few drinks, dinner and to just unwind. All of the sudden that day she told me she wanted a night alone to just sleep. It's not that ridiculous of a request, it's just the fact of everything that led up to it. So I said ok. I talked to her by phone after work around 8 or 9. She told me she was going to sleep. She was rushed to get off the phone. About 2 hours later, I text her to let her know she left her earrings at my house, I had found them. These situations are all about behavior and behavioral patterns along with odd changes that occur. I was always a night owl of sorts, so it was no wonder I was awake at almost midnight. She on the other hand (especially when she was really tired was in bed by 9, for probably 99% of the time we were ever together she could sleep like a rock) Well she instantly text me back, "thanks" Hmm, that's odd. She's up. I text her back, are you awake? She said "going to bed now." 

I had a friend come over. He asked how things were and I filled him in on the events of the past month. Her standing me up, etc etc. As I started talking about everything, I got this overwhelming feeling of anxiety that arose inside my body. He left at 2am. I hated myself for doing this but I sat on my couch thinking, I know something is up. As I debated about what I was about to do, I remembered how I was cheated on in my previous relationship. How I was so ignorant to it and how I never wanted to go down that path again. I decided to drive by her house. She lives a mile away. The entire time I was angry at myself. I said, if nothing is up, I'm going to go to counseling... .maybe all the trauma from my previous relationship hasn't gone away as much as I thought it had.  So I drive by her house and boom! her car is gone! It's 230am! I text her "WOW" nothing else. She has an iPhone. I see the little dots appear when someone is going to respond. They appear, go away. Appear, go away. She was panicked. She said "hey are you up?" I said "YEP" And then she made small chat that I ignored completely. I drove back home and just sat here numb. I waited 60 minutes and drove by again, and her car was there. I was livid. I called her and flipped out. I said, cut the BS I know you cheated on me tonight. She faked a panic attack and tried denying it for the next 5 hours. She told me this concluded crazy story how she went for a drive by herself and drank in her car because she was stressed. What? And that changed 10 times. Finally I said, ok here is the deal. I don't believe you. You are mad because I don't believe you. Here is your chance to prove me wrong and if you do I'll humbly apologize, go to a counselor and you can beat me up all you want. Log onto your phone account online, show me what numbers you texted from 10-2am besides me. She raged at me. I said, don't ever call or talk to me again. Show me, prove me wrong. Finally she called me back crying and asked if she could come over. She sobbed and told me that she had been with a coworker guy and to no surprise that was who she was with the night she stood me up too.

I learned in this incident to NEVER deny your gut instinct. We have evolved for millions of years and have only been domesticated living in societal life for a fraction of a fraction of that length of time. Our bodies and our minds are fine tuned machines that survived for eons through the ability to sense/perceive and interpret danger. Anxiety/fear/adrenaline. Those feelings are primal and they exist to serve a purpose. If you trust your gut instinct you will find that you are rarely incorrect.

[Gonzalo]

My point when it all connected was a lot simpler: She told me she was breaking up with me (for around the 18th time), and I felt a sense of profound relief. It was like 'yes, if we split I don't have to deal with all of this anymore, I can go back to being happy, I don't have to be afraid any more', and I realized that it was the right decision. I had several moments of questioning, but I'd just fall back on how relieved I felt to confirm that ending was the right decision.

[LifeExperience]

Thank you Anxiety

[SlyQQ]

I tend to think if they "love " you it is something they can turn on and off an the next /last is / was the same as you they just run round trying to find easy marks to control who wont hurt their ego so put me firmly in anxiety s camp

[Blimblam]

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

[apollotech]

I could have written exactly this regarding my declarations to my BPDexgf. I always felt as if I was having to talk her into the relationship, the relationship that she declared she wanted with me... .of course, along with her unending love for me. It was a nightmare:

"You see, as I strived more and more to communicate how great things could be if we had more reciprocation, and balance, how we could have a really healthy relationship. How I'm not out to hurt her, and I have proven my loyalty even throughout her betrayal. She didn't have to control things, she could let go. I asked her, what do we have to lose, let's just try things that way. It sounded great, she even was in agreement with everything I said. Yet she could never relinquish her unmitigated need to control and dictate every situation enough to be vulnerable and really invest. There was never any action. There was silence and her pulling away. She would wait until I would finally give up holding my line I drew, and ultimately forget the requests I made for action."

[outside9x]

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.

[raisins3142]

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.

Another common theme: they escalate quickly because they want you to fall for them well before you know much about them.

[Infared]

Wow Anxiety... .thanks for taking the time, thought, and effort to write that down... .I so identify.

I think that you gave me fuller understanding of what I went thru.   NC and distance give clarity for me, too. (as much as I may not have wanted it! )

Not, too long after my ex ran off with new supply, (actually it was at about one year... but there was very little contact after the first month)... .she had occasionally contacted me... .but I intuitively knew why even in all my emotional pain... .it was just for control. It was just to see if I was still there as a backup.  I didn't contact her... .my pain was very great and I missed her terribly... .but I stood strong (had no idea about this website or BPD then)... .At about the one-year point... .(her new supply was away for the weekend... .WOW how could she possibly survive... oh... wait... .contact ME!)... .I got a very immature triple-drive-bye AND pull-in! (I was out putting my MTB on my car with my shades on... .watched the whole ridiculous thing go down in front of me and gave away nothing).  When she started to get out of the car I just asked, are you still with "my replacemetnt" she said yes and I just said GOOD-bye" and she drove off... I  did end up caving in (thinking that I was mean ... .big mistake!)  and calling her on the phone. I think she wanted to be with me ... told me the guy was away for the weekend... .yet she was also telling me that "nothing would change." ? At the time I didn't realize that her abandonment issues were so strong that she could not be alone for 2 days and she did not care ANYTHING about me or my feelings... it was just about her immediate needs. Totally.

I am very sensitive ... .which is why all of this has been so God-Awful painful for me... .but my awareness just knew that as confused as I was that whole incident was all about her needs and that me and my feelings and the good person that I was to her had NOTHING to do with that visit.  I told her in no uncertain terms that I would not spend ANY time with her under her prescribed conditions. NONE.  

I regrouped and had some "emergency" meetings with my T and then I sent her a voice message that told her that I was disappointed in her and how she had treated me and how in no uncertain terms that I did not like the person that she showed me that she was and that I did not want her in my life in any way, shape or form.  It almost killed me.  The words were soo struck in my throat... .but I go them out... .She did not respond... .and I have maintained absolute NC since then ... .although she tries to walk up to me in public (ONLY if she is alone... .her behavior is QuITE different if she is with him). I never allow her to get close to me.   She still just wants to see if she has the hook set.  Its years later and her advances are just about her needs... .oh goody... .would I love to be her (I think) husband.  I bet he would feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that she is trying to ambush me in a grocery store parking lot. Ick.

I was always soo perplexed about what you so eloquently put into words here.   My thought about what went down with us was ... .What the heck... .you end our relationship and run off with this guy and just replace me in 5 mins.  and in the end it is really ME who has to go through the painful ACTIONs of ending the relationship.  That always caused me so much pain and confusion... .and ... .um... .ANGER!

... .but after coming here and reading your post and understanding what BPD is... .I have a full understanding of what makes her tick... .and that I intuitively handled that situation as best as I could to save me... .I guess it will always hurt though. For me to actually have to really end it is such a kick in the face... .but I "get-it" even more now.

Thanks again for writing that!  

[llor]

This: "These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were" is the truth. Realizing what really went on in there, that your idea of the relationship was never what it really was, helps me push throught and keep NC.

[Infared]

This: "These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were" is the truth. Realizing what really went on in there, that your idea of the relationship was never what it really was, helps me push throught and keep NC.

YES!

[anxiety5]

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

[anxiety5]

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.

Another common theme: they escalate quickly because they want you to fall for them well before you know much about them.

I couldn't agree more. She escalated all aspects of the relationship. It was like a blanket slowly covered me and began to suffocate me from my own intuition. That little twinge in my gut that this was abnormal behavior, an odd situation or moving to fast began to become more faint like a beacon slowly running out of battery power. When it died I lost myself. I was now in the vortex of the crazy dance without a compass to find my way out. The conflict of these relationships is a sign we are normal. It's a fight for our survival to defend our morals and values as they become muddied and betrayed. The depression and withdraw we feel are because we are being violated and abused. And the only way someone can have a willing participant in this process is an onslaught of monopolizing their time through manipulative and fake connection, intense physical relations with reinforced ego boosts to our self confidence and future promises to keep us going. Only once we have ignored all the little things and allow ourselves to get to this place is it possible for the fun to begin for them. We are bowling pins, they want us lined up as soon as possible so they can roll a strike and smash us to the ground. But just like in a bowling alley, the arm will continue picking you up and putting you back in line for another round of knock down. Each conflict you have with them  once you are betrayed, each sleepless night, each time a fall out occurs that is your window opening to get out. And once away, your instincts begin to recharge and you finally see the insane levels of craziness that you were conditioned to tolerate and absorb.

[raisins3142]

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

Thank you for this, brother.

It all resonated with me.

I was mostly angry over what I put up with, angry with myself.  And also angry over her lack of understanding.

What you wrote helped me.

[anxiety5]

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

Thank you for this, brother.

It all resonated with me.

I was mostly angry over what I put up with, angry with myself.  And also angry over her lack of understanding.

What you wrote helped me.

I went to a counselor for the first time about 2 months ago. If you haven't please do yourself a favor, go. Even if you are doing ok, which I think Im doing right now, I can't really tell you how therapeutic it is to have someone who understands this pathology to hear you out, to validate the things you felt and went through and to help you process it all and really and truly let go. It's powerful. I feel a release of energy each week I go. I feel lighter when I leave, clear, validated. I admit and know I should have left earlier but my willingness to go talk to someone is all the validation I need to myself to forgive myself. All you can do in life is try your best, fail, and learn from your mistakes to get better. A lot of times I think I did the first two and then got stuck right there in feelings of failure vs letting myself of the hook and learning from it. If you learn anything from a bad situation, you have made it a situation that will make you stronger, wiser and ultimately happier because you've grown.

Sounds like you are doing great and I'm really happy about that. This message is for everyone out there that feels there is stigma with going to a counselor for this stuff. It's very helpful and they are really the perfect ally to help us all move on and this time, NEVER date one of these people again.

[raisins3142]

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

Thank you for this, brother.

It all resonated with me.

I was mostly angry over what I put up with, angry with myself.  And also angry over her lack of understanding.

What you wrote helped me.

I went to a counselor for the first time about 2 months ago. If you haven't please do yourself a favor, go. Even if you are doing ok, which I think Im doing right now, I can't really tell you how therapeutic it is to have someone who understands this pathology to hear you out, to validate the things you felt and went through and to help you process it all and really and truly let go. It's powerful. I feel a release of energy each week I go. I feel lighter when I leave, clear, validated. I admit and know I should have left earlier but my willingness to go talk to someone is all the validation I need to myself to forgive myself. All you can do in life is try your best, fail, and learn from your mistakes to get better. A lot of times I think I did the first two and then got stuck right there in feelings of failure vs letting myself of the hook and learning from it. If you learn anything from a bad situation, you have made it a situation that will make you stronger, wiser and ultimately happier because you've grown.

Sounds like you are doing great and I'm really happy about that. This message is for everyone out there that feels there is stigma with going to a counselor for this stuff. It's very helpful and they are really the perfect ally to help us all move on and this time, NEVER date one of these people again.

I'll admit I am at least slightly obsessed with my ex and our relationship, as evidenced by my posting here everyday.

She has likely moved on with her legs in the air as I type.

I should probably seek some outside help.  Thank you.

[Infared]

If you find a counselor who is versed on this issue and who is a good "fit" for you it can be a great experience for personal growth.

I had to try twice... .and my second counselor was great. I also had to go to counseling with the attitude that I was going there to help love myself... .not "fix" me.  

It was the best thing that I ever did... .I needed some intimate perspective.  

[Blimblam]

Anxiety I can really relate to the sentiment of I tried my best to love my ex would had went to the end of the earth for her, took a billet for her all of that stuff. Then I got to this phase where I convinced nearly she is just unloveable.  I even texted her that which I regretted immediately after and sent me into  an even deeper personal crisis.  How could I say something so mean so cruel?

I had too look at my obsessiveness and the fact I was fighting not going stalker mode.  All of that crap and how easy it was to blame my ex for my regressed state but I had to come to terms with i was attracted to a senario that led me to this regressed state.  To the point of obsession I was obsessed with getting to this regressed state and in many ways love was just an excuse. Not that the love wasn't real or true, but that there was something about that very painfull state of desperation that I entered to resolve something and that what ever that was existed before I met my BPD ex. 

[Blimblam]

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.

[raisins3142]

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.

link?

[Blimblam]

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.

link?

It was a random post in a thread from a few months back.  Sorry, I don't have the link. She basically accused us of using the forum to convince ourselves it is all our exs fault because they are monsters and we are saints and how pathetic and infantile that is as we validate ourselves in a sort of circle jerk. That we accuse the pwBPD from hiding from themselves and lacking self awareness and the irony of that considering the state of the leaving board at the time. She then broke down a list of behaviors we accuse out exs of doing that we constantly do on the leaving board and how that stems from a "limited empathy," and we should look at ourselves before saying the exact same behaviors are monsterous when a pwBPD engages in them and not the "non."

[raisins3142]

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.

link?

It was a random post in a thread from a few months back.  Sorry, I don't have the link. She basically accused us of using the forum to convince ourselves it is all our exs fault because they are monsters and we are saints and how pathetic and infantile that is as we validate ourselves in a sort of circle jerk. That we accuse the pwBPD from hiding from themselves and lacking self awareness and the irony of that considering the state of the leaving board at the time. She then broke down a list of behaviors we accuse out exs of doing that we constantly do on the leaving board and how that stems from a "limited empathy," and we should look at ourselves before saying the exact same behaviors are monsterous when a pwBPD engages in them and not the "non."

Alright, not buying it though.  Sounds like the clever saying "why are you so intolerant of intolerance?"  Or when my BPD ex thought I was crazy because I yelled at her after months and months of her crazy making, devaluation, and odd behavior.

[Blimblam]

She was not tottaly wrong. On some points she kind of reacted personally but the state of the leaving board at the time was very much that way and it often leans in that direction more or less at various times.  You are right we often act in these ways after being invalidated so long in the rs itself. Triggering a regressed state within us. Their is an important transition of recognizing that one is indeed a victim of abuse and it is hard to accept often times.  But we often transition from victim to persecuter within the karpman drama triangle vilifying the image of our ex.  The thing is when we do that we still remain withing the role of victim.  

Here is a link to a thread with a link to an article about the karpman drama triangle and the three faces of victim

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0

[anxiety5]

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.

link?

It was a random post in a thread from a few months back.  Sorry, I don't have the link. She basically accused us of using the forum to convince ourselves it is all our exs fault because they are monsters and we are saints and how pathetic and infantile that is as we validate ourselves in a sort of circle jerk. That we accuse the pwBPD from hiding from themselves and lacking self awareness and the irony of that considering the state of the leaving board at the time. She then broke down a list of behaviors we accuse out exs of doing that we constantly do on the leaving board and how that stems from a "limited empathy," and we should look at ourselves before saying the exact same behaviors are monsterous when a pwBPD engages in them and not the "non."

Jesus, sounds like an argument with my ex.

[anxiety5]

Anxiety I can really relate to the sentiment of I tried my best to love my ex would had went to the end of the earth for her, took a billet for her all of that stuff. Then I got to this phase where I convinced nearly she is just unloveable.  I even texted her that which I regretted immediately after and sent me into  an even deeper personal crisis.  How could I say something so mean so cruel?

I had too look at my obsessiveness and the fact I was fighting not going stalker mode.  All of that crap and how easy it was to blame my ex for my regressed state but I had to come to terms with i was attracted to a senario that led me to this regressed state.  To the point of obsession I was obsessed with getting to this regressed state and in many ways love was just an excuse. Not that the love wasn't real or true, but that there was something about that very painfull state of desperation that I entered to resolve something and that what ever that was existed before I met my BPD ex. 

I do think there may be things to look at in all of our past relationships, etc but let's not forget something. Manipulation. When I first met my ex she told me she was separated but not divorced. I was cautious. She told me how the relationship was long over for 2 years and this was just the procedural part now. I was cautious. She tried to escalate things physically. I was cautious. Finally after spending a month or so hanging out, her story was consistent enough, I decided to take a shot with her. There were changes in her, there was acting out, there were hot and cold periods, but she always had a plausible reason. The stresses of work, being a single mom, or the stress of the custody fight/divorce. I saw the 3 week, 4 week time frames of bliss and I was really into her. So I bought the narrative that this was temporary and when it passed the stresses would be gone and those 3-4 week cycles would become permanent and less frequent moments of temporary chaos. Furthermore, as feelings develop you begin to really care about this person so in their moments of need, how could you not at least try to comfort them, or help them out in a way they needed? She was always overly thankful and appreciative.

As time went on though, requests turned to demands. Preference became control. Hot became cold and then hot again. The bar was always set higher, the carrot always distanced a little further as I closed in.

There is no denying the objectification that is taking place. We are being used as a supply of attention, validation, someone to discredit the ex who dumped them by using us in triangulation, we are affirming, and we act as a prop so this person can appear to be a functional person capable of being desired and operating in the capacities of a romantic relationship. It is a drug to them. The more we supply the more they need to feel satisfied. We have been hooked at this point. We have been tricked into this situation. When we attempt to seek truth by asking questions, we are lied to. We are told the motives are good, we are safe. When times become hard we are told they are temporary. Similar to their own relationship dynamic, they blame external events as the culprit and once said events pass, everything will be ok.

I don't think I was replaying any dynamics of some parental relationship. I think I was a naive person who has two loving parents who are still married and whom I'm close with and have always supported me no matter what I wanted to do with my life. This girl was gorgeous, smart, sexy, fun, had a good career and was a good mom. We hit it off and the timing sucked because of her situation. I did what anyone would do, I communicated how I felt about that with caution and was duped into being told things that I later found to be untrue. I got into this situation and stayed in too long because when I sought answers I was told something that sounded plausible and because I cared about her I believed her. For me it wasn't anymore complicated than this. My innocence was stolen. I grew up in a safe environment where people kept their word, were honest and integrity mattered. Where you would never intentionally hurt someone. Where objectification was not even a part of our lexicon because we were family oriented and would never dream of treating someone like a mineral deposit to be mined as a resource for personal gain.

Through this relationship I became more street smart. There is no psycho analytical reasoning for what happened to me other than sheer ignorance and denial that someone so cute, innocent and sweet could actually be so calculated, callous and cruel. I learned to pay attention to actions not words. Through this I learned how these affect personal boundaries. I learned how letting your boundaries get breached breeds personal contempt and you lose who you are. I learned about a behavioral disorder that I had no experience with and knew nothing about. I learned that I was sheltered. The conflict was a battle for my identity. To hold onto the morals values and respect I knew people deserve to be treated with vs the reality of our ever escalating destruction. I learned how to walk away. I learned that I'm lucky to not be part of whatever she came from that created the person that I dealt with over a period of 16 months.

[rlhmm]

i want to thank you Anxiety. your observations have been spot on and your insights are very helpful. we are stronger for the hell that we have been put through by these "people" we loved and whom we thought loved us. the best word i can think of is "enigma", not at all who they portray themselves to be. we were "scammed".

[anxiety5]

i want to thank you Anxiety. your observations have been spot on and your insights are very helpful. we are stronger for the hell that we have been put through by these "people" we loved and whom we thought loved us. the best word i can think of is "enigma", not at all who they portray themselves to be. we were "scammed".

I agree fully. What more can we do? We got out. The people I really empathize with are those in the other forums. We have ALL been there. Sometimes reading their posts hurts me more than my own recovery. I see some poor guy who is trying his best, in the midsts of the battle we all waged and lost. I try my best not to preach to those guys because I was there. NOTHING ANYONE TELLS YOU can convince you otherwise. This "experience" is something we all must go through and learn on our own. It's up to us moving forward to put into action how much we learned.

I have my moments where I miss her but like so many of you, I've realized I don't really miss "her" What I miss is the feeling of hope, the passion, the connection, the feeling of finding someone so rare and incredible it made life stop for a brief moment. Nobody else existed except the two of us. There was nowhere else I'd rather be than with her. Our intentions were good, we did the best that we could. We endured a lot. We are stronger than we realize. We have gained insights into ourselves that would never have been possible under any other circumstance than dating this particular type of person and being hurt in this particular type of way. She hurt me a lot but I'm still here. Our futures are bright because we are willing to admit we don't have all the answers. Growth is possible. Change is something we have the ability to actually implement unlike them. This relationship for me was the equivalent to military breaking down a young man and giving him the tools and showing him what it takes to rebuild himself as a man. I feel wiser, more aware about myself and others. In a sense, the pain of this relationship has freed me to live a fuller more happier life moving forward. It's pushed me to such stress levels that I've learned how much self discipline and health matter. It's made me feel so crazy, the stigma of seeking counseling that I once had in my younger days is gone. I go now. It's incredibly helpful and has helped me see things about myself I never was able to fully grasp. But perhaps the most important lesson taught is the power of living free of regret. I can not change her. I can not wish the things she did to me away. I loved her. I was faithful. I was loyal. I was devoted. When things broke down, I tried to communicate but was shut down. When things became toxic I learned for the first time in my life, that it's ok to walk away. I did not quit. Quitting doesn't count when you are giving your everything and receiving nothing in return. Through all of these actions I live free of regret. There is NOTHING I could have done to change any of this except for give up my own identity, my own self, my own needs, my own wants and my own happiness. That my friends is not an option. So the next best thing we can do is to walk away, allow ourselves to grieve so that we can heal properly, to appreciate the ways we are going to be BETTER because we survived this turmoil and to take one step at a time in the right direction.

[rlhmm]

again you are absolutely correct. we were "love bombed" and "mirrored" to death in order to get hooked into the "fog" that everyone speaks of, and then pushed, pulled, and manipulated in ways that i'd never seen the likes of even though i knew damned well inside that "something" wasn't right here. as time wore on we start to see the wierd things... .jealousies, isolation tactics, snyde remarks, belittling, and the list goes on til we are pushed to the brink of sanity when we finally wake up and say: I"VE HAD IT! ENOUGH!  WE ARE THROUGH! ITS OVER!  just like that, we take ourselves back and choose... .SANITY. so serene our worlds have become... .a little too serene that when it catches up we begin to miss the insanity, or wait... .what just happened? we have to readjust and find ourselves again because we were so caught up and enmeshed in their web of insecurity that we became unsure and insecure ourselves. when i think of how i was lied to and betrayed and ultimately tossed aside it reminds me that i didnt know this person at all. this person was just parroting me. they didnt love me... .i loved myself in another form!  WOW!  i miss me! the biggest question that i needed the answer to i found right here on this site: did she ever love me? answer: no. of course not. she is incapable of love because she doesnt love herself. therefore she is incapable of loving ANYONE else, period. thats what keeps me from missing her, or wanting her back. it also makes it easy to stay nc. i dont want that turmoil in my life. there is someone better and healthier for me... .when the time is right, i'll meet her. til then i'll be around. 

[apollotech]

i want to thank you Anxiety. your observations have been spot on and your insights are very helpful. we are stronger for the hell that we have been put through by these "people" we loved and whom we thought loved us. the best word i can think of is "enigma", not at all who they portray themselves to be. we were "scammed".

I agree fully. What more can we do? We got out. The people I really empathize with are those in the other forums. We have ALL been there. Sometimes reading their posts hurts me more than my own recovery. I see some poor guy who is trying his best, in the midsts of the battle we all waged and lost. I try my best not to preach to those guys because I was there. NOTHING ANYONE TELLS YOU can convince you otherwise. This "experience" is something we all must go through and learn on our own. It's up to us moving forward to put into action how much we learned.

I have my moments where I miss her but like so many of you, I've realized I don't really miss "her" What I miss is the feeling of hope, the passion, the connection, the feeling of finding someone so rare and incredible it made life stop for a brief moment. Nobody else existed except the two of us. There was nowhere else I'd rather be than with her. Our intentions were good, we did the best that we could. We endured a lot. We are stronger than we realize. We have gained insights into ourselves that would never have been possible under any other circumstance than dating this particular type of person and being hurt in this particular type of way. She hurt me a lot but I'm still here. Our futures are bright because we are willing to admit we don't have all the answers. Growth is possible. Change is something we have the ability to actually implement unlike them. This relationship for me was the equivalent to military breaking down a young man and giving him the tools and showing him what it takes to rebuild himself as a man. I feel wiser, more aware about myself and others. In a sense, the pain of this relationship has freed me to live a fuller more happier life moving forward. It's pushed me to such stress levels that I've learned how much self discipline and health matter. It's made me feel so crazy, the stigma of seeking counseling that I once had in my younger days is gone. I go now. It's incredibly helpful and has helped me see things about myself I never was able to fully grasp. But perhaps the most important lesson taught is the power of living free of regret. I can not change her. I can not wish the things she did to me away. I loved her. I was faithful. I was loyal. I was devoted. When things broke down, I tried to communicate but was shut down. When things became toxic I learned for the first time in my life, that it's ok to walk away. I did not quit. Quitting doesn't count when you are giving your everything and receiving nothing in return. Through all of these actions I live free of regret. There is NOTHING I could have done to change any of this except for give up my own identity, my own self, my own needs, my own wants and my own happiness. That my friends is not an option. So the next best thing we can do is to walk away, allow ourselves to grieve so that we can heal properly, to appreciate the ways we are going to be BETTER because we survived this turmoil and to take one step at a time in the right direction.

Anxiety5,

Thank you for your posts. Like you, I know that I did everything that I could possibly do in a healthy manner for all parties to put a relationship together with my my BPDexgf. It was never going to work. Like you, I don't have regrets, and I am stronger for what I was put through. I walked out with my head up and my "self" intact,  but what a sad loss for everyone involved. It's hard to turn away from someone when you know and understand the potential of what could have been.

[llor]

This is what I needed to read.

"It was in this moment I realized that she does not love me. I'm an object to her. I provide her with attention, validation and a platform with which to feed her need to control and dump her toxicity on while escaping any accountability. She doesn't want me back, because she isn't even willing to try. It's not about me and my wants, it's about her need to feel in control.

I put her in a position much like that which I found her when we first met. She was feeling rejected, lost control over things and the person who validated her is now saying they don't want her anymore. So desperate to avoid this ego hit again, she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her."

I posted awhile ago about my failed relationship too. I think I need to do the same exercise. Thank you for this man.

[apollotech]

This is what I needed to read.

"It was in this moment I realized that she does not love me. I'm an object to her. I provide her with attention, validation and a platform with which to feed her need to control and dump her toxicity on while escaping any accountability. She doesn't want me back, because she isn't even willing to try. It's not about me and my wants, it's about her need to feel in control.

I put her in a position much like that which I found her when we first met. She was feeling rejected, lost control over things and the person who validated her is now saying they don't want her anymore. So desperate to avoid this ego hit again, she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually [emphasis mine]. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her."

I posted awhile ago about my failed relationship too. I think I need to do the same exercise. Thank you for this man.

My BPDexgf told me to my face that she could never be who I wanted her to be, that she could never give me what I expected her to give. I ignored it as her putting too much pressure on herself. She constantly compared herself--education, income, etc.-- to me and my position in life. That's what I thought that she was referring to, but it wasn't. She knew what was coming. She knew that at some point she would rip us apart. I don't blame her; I am not angry at her... .I pity her. Her personal life is total chaos; it's one unfulfilling relationship after another, what a terrible fate for anyone. I think that she wanted me, us, with all of her being, but she knew that it could never be. This disorder efficiently produces very sad people... .on both sides of the equation. We all need to remember that.

[Restored2]

anxiety5: Thank you for sharing your personal relationship story for the rest of us to be able to put in perspective for our own relationship stories.  Your thinking sounds solid without any fog, to the point of being bullet proof.  For this I applaud you!

[Deeno02]

Thanks man. Spot on. Im out, some other dude is now knee deep in her chaos. We escaped. Im thankful I did in one piece. Still recovering but your point about ego was a WOW moment for me. While she didnt cheat on me, the rest of it was my r/s. 3-4 week cycles of everything is cool, followed by a "your a rotten boyfriend" speech or "treat me special or lose me" speech. Lather, rinse, repeat for 16 months. Thanks again for the added clarity.

[Pingo]

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.

Another common theme: they escalate quickly because they want you to fall for them well before you know much about them.

I couldn't agree more. She escalated all aspects of the relationship. It was like a blanket slowly covered me and began to suffocate me from my own intuition. That little twinge in my gut that this was abnormal behavior, an odd situation or moving to fast began to become more faint like a beacon slowly running out of battery power. When it died I lost myself. I was now in the vortex of the crazy dance without a compass to find my way out. The conflict of these relationships is a sign we are normal. It's a fight for our survival to defend our morals and values as they become muddied and betrayed. The depression and withdraw we feel are because we are being violated and abused. And the only way someone can have a willing participant in this process is an onslaught of monopolizing their time through manipulative and fake connection, intense physical relations with reinforced ego boosts to our self confidence and future promises to keep us going. Only once we have ignored all the little things and allow ourselves to get to this place is it possible for the fun to begin for them. We are bowling pins, they want us lined up as soon as possible so they can roll a strike and smash us to the ground. But just like in a bowling alley, the arm will continue picking you up and putting you back in line for another round of knock down. Each conflict you have with them  once you are betrayed, each sleepless night, each time a fall out occurs that is your window opening to get out. And once away, your instincts begin to recharge and you finally see the insane levels of craziness that you were conditioned to tolerate and absorb.

THIS! It is astonishing, now 8 mths out, how much denial I was in! The FOG was so thick, I didn't know if I was coming or going. I had lost all my intuition (I hadn't actually, just didn't trust it)... .he almost succeeded in taking full ownership of my mind and body. But something in me still had some fight. And fortunately I did get out. Looking back on it all, the insane levels of craziness are hard to comprehend!

Thank you Anxiety5, I always get so much out of your posts! 

[apple2]

This post is more about me "talking outloud" I find when I write about this relationship, I feel better.

My relationship went down like so many here. She was beautiful, she was smart, she was sexy, we had a great connection. And then the wheels fell off.

I spent time on several forums here. I was cheated on twice that I know of and I rode the roller coaster of emotional peaks and unrivaled low points for well over a year. I too, like so many here, had the confusion, the denial, the fixer reflex to somehow love her to healthy and rescue her from herself. I loved, I was hurt, I loved harder. We were broken from her behaviors, and I tried to fix things. I believed in her with a dangerous level of hope and optimism. Ultimately, things went exactly the way everything I read said they would go.

The way our relationship ended, I was able to save my dignity. It wasn't a cheating blow out or an abrupt discard. It was me, little by little (through education and a lot of you people here whose names Ill never be able to reference to thank you) that I snapped from my hyper fixation on trying to "fix" our relationship. I became more assertive. I explored the depths of myself, my core values (which were obliterated countless times) and was able to begin setting boundaries.

After one of her famous "shunning" episodes because I somehow failed to do something according to her immediate compliance demands, I pushed back. I broke up with her. She didn't believe me, I had cried wolf one too many times. But then she realized I was serious. I realized she had told me everything I needed to know. You see, as I strived more and more to communicate how great things could be if we had more reciprocation, and balance, how we could have a really healthy relationship. How I'm not out to hurt her, and I have proven my loyalty even throughout her betrayal. She didn't have to control things, she could let go. I asked her, what do we have to lose, let's just try things that way. It sounded great, she even was in agreement with everything I said. Yet she could never relinquish her unmitigated need to control and dictate every situation enough to be vulnerable and really invest. There was never any action. There was silence and her pulling away. She would wait until I would finally give up holding my line I drew, and ultimately forget the requests I made for action.

I told her I needed space. She said she still wanted to see me and talk to me. I said "Why?" You are telling me you can't give me any compromise, you can't give me the relationship you used to think you could, why do you want to see me still? her response "Because I really care about you."  What... .? 

It was then I just had this moment where all the education I did, all the ruminating and everything that went down meshed. An infinite amount of data points in my mind connected instantly through space and time, like a puzzle that automatically put itself together as to finally see the picture of what was going on. I think sometimes we know it. Sometimes we see it. But doing both of these things at a precise moment when you've peeled back the defense of denial is the singular moment when it really "hits" home.

If she loved me. If she wanted me around. If she wanted to continue seeing me and being with me, she would have tried to work on us. If she didn't want to be with me though, then why did she still want these things?

Here is my final clarity and the coldness that it paints this person who I once adored is hard to write, and hard to comprehend. But it's factual. I feel fortunate that I get it. That I understand her now. Completely. Probably better than she understands herself.


Here is our relationship not in my clouded world, but the way it really went down without all the fog:



When we met she was separated yet not divorced. She had taken a huge blow to her ego by being rejected by her now ex husband. This was the ultimate loss of control. This is why she sought a relationship so soon. It was not to find love, it was to regain control and to self validate. To prove to herself she could be desired. To find a new source of the supply that was lacking to the point of debilitation.

She cried one time in the beginning because I went to the store. She wanted to hang out with me. When I took things slow because I was worried about the things she was going through she pushed harder for a physical relationship. The more I kept things slow, and stopped her advances the more she sought to hook me. She was desperate for validation. She needed someone to control.

I was love bombed into oblivion. I was smitten in a way I never had been before. It was an incredible rush. We took trips, we talked for hours and we had amazing conversations. I was validating to her that she was still desirable. The moment I let my guard down, she pulled away. It was her first test to see how well she had controlled me. She cheated on me twice, I found out. She said two really bizarre things to me then I never understood. One was "This can't be over. It's not over yet. I need this. I need you." She also said "I could tell by the hurt in your eyes how much you love me and it made me so sad."  These statements can be translated to the fact I validated her self worth through her ability to cause pain in my life. And the type of rush she felt meant she needed more of it. I was confirmed as a great hit of narcissistic supply. She wasn't done yet. She needed more.

She reverted back to the first phase and things were really great for several months. The moment I was back under her spell she began being nasty. The no win situations, the egg shells when she was stressed, the contradictions, the triangulation, the last minute cancellations. She was enjoying so much keeping me on edge all the time. This is an oversimplification of how nasty and cruel she was during this phase.

When I stopped complying and began asking for my own needs to be met, for balance, and for her to follow through with all the promises she made me, she began devaluing me. She did this through cold shoulder and distancing maneuvers. The anger it provoked in me, she'd use against me as her reasoning.

When I finally broke it off and went No Contact after she basically told me she could never give me the relationship I want, I found out she hung out with that same kid again she cheated on the first time. This was her desperation for any hit of attention with an added twist of payback by going to the very person who caused me so much grief the first time around.

She wanted me back. She told me how frustrated she was and how cruel I was for changing my number. She showed up at my house several times desperate to see and talk to me. I asked why. She said because she cares about me so much. When I pointed out that if she cared about me why can't she just try and work on things, she would never answer. I asked her what she wanted from me. She said, please unblock me. I want to still see you. I'm attracted to you. I still want to see and talk to you.  When I told her that I needed time to classify her as a friend first and perhaps someday we could talk, she said "I don't want you to think of me as a friend" Again when I pointed out the contradiction of telling me she wants me, yet doesn't because she won't work on things, she again offered no response.

It was in this moment I realized that she does not love me. I'm an object to her. I provide her with attention, validation and a platform with which to feed her need to control and dump her toxicity on while escaping any accountability. She doesn't want me back, because she isn't even willing to try. It's not about me and my wants, it's about her need to feel in control.

I put her in a position much like that which I found her when we first met. She was feeling rejected, lost control over things and the person who validated her is now saying they don't want her anymore. So desperate to avoid this ego hit again, she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her. I broke things off with her first. And in doing so she wanted me back for no other reason than to be the one who discarded me first.

I'm grateful that I didn't give her that satisfaction. These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were.

Hi Anxiety5,

I am glad to see that you have already figured out your situation and got yourself out of the circle.

I would like to ask for some advice. I was like you, trying to fix the relationship. For me, I think the only way to make mine pwBPD take me or anyone in a relationship seriously is to ignore him, to set limits, to leave him. It sounds ridiculous, but if I try to love him and meet his needs, the relationship will be all about his wishes in the end. And he feels he has the right to do anything,even emotional abuse.

But sometimes, I have too much sympathy for him. It hinders me to set limits, because he looks quite unhappy and painful.

How did you make the resolution to set limits and to leave this kind of relationship without doubt? Mine is trying to recycle me, but I don't want to start a new round again. I am not strong enough. Therefore, want to ask for your opinion.

[raisins3142]

THIS! It is astonishing, now 8 mths out, how much denial I was in! The FOG was so thick, I didn't know if I was coming or going. I had lost all my intuition (I hadn't actually, just didn't trust it)... .he almost succeeded in taking full ownership of my mind and body. But something in me still had some fight. And fortunately I did get out. Looking back on it all, the insane levels of craziness are hard to comprehend!

Thank you Anxiety5, I always get so much out of your posts! 

Same here.  My uBPDexgf's main weapon was defensiveness and rationalization.  No matter what she did, if I mentioned it, she would go through the following steps: 1. immediate/semi angry defensiveness to shoot me down and (she wasn't so good at thinking on her feet but she would try to... ) throw out a few reasons I was wrong or a few examples of others acting like her (she would usually reference her disordered female friends or that she acted the same in past relationships and the guy didn't say anything), 2. she would go silent so she could think, and 3. she would write me a long email/texts where she kind of recognized my position and gave a half a$$ed apology but then would gaslight, rewrite things, and rationalize her position so that we were at least both equally in the wrong.  The next step would be that I would apologize and kind of accept her rewriting of things because I was relieved she was being nice again.

After a while, I kind of gave up on reality, I just wanted to be semi happy in the relationship and not be abused too bad or cheated on.  All this did erode my intuition and gut feelings.  I just turned them off because otherwise I would force myself to leave.

[anxiety5]

Hi Anxiety5,

I am glad to see that you have already figured out your situation and got yourself out of the circle.

I would like to ask for some advice. I was like you, trying to fix the relationship. For me, I think the only way to make mine pwBPD take me or anyone in a relationship seriously is to ignore him, to set limits, to leave him. It sounds ridiculous, but if I try to love him and meet his needs, the relationship will be all about his wishes in the end. And he feels he has the right to do anything,even emotional abuse.

But sometimes, I have too much sympathy for him. It hinders me to set limits, because he looks quite unhappy and painful.

How did you make the resolution to set limits and to leave this kind of relationship without doubt? Mine is trying to recycle me, but I don't want to start a new round again. I am not strong enough. Therefore, want to ask for your opinion.

I'm sorry you are going through all of this. God knows we (and I) can empathize. Your question is a very good one. I can't say for sure what will work for you, but let me tell you what happened with me as to awaken my breaking point.

Stop for a moment. Stop trying to figure everything out. Stop going over all the details past and present. Stop over thinking and start feeling instead. You are probably in a perpetual state of anxiety like I was. Constantly waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop. Are you happy? If you knew in the beginning things would go this way, and you could somehow go back without attaching would you still go down the path you did? Or would you run? Is this what you envision a relationship to be like? Is this what you want for your future?

When we are kept on edge, we are hyper focused on someone else as our fixer reflex is activated. When everything around you is in a state of flux, when actions, words, and behaviors are contradictory and irrational, it's human nature to try and "figure it out" If you were to walk outside tomorrow and the sky were green, the grass were blue and your house were a different color, would you be able to go about your day? No. You would probably focus on what the heck was happening? What is going on? How did this happen? What does it mean? None of it makes sense. And likewise we end up hyper focusing on trying to figure it out.

My ex was notorious for shunning me. She used to rage, but I can hang with the best of them. I'm not a doormat. If you rage at me you better have a damn good reason, because I'm going to give it to you right back. Nobody talks to me like I'm a freaking dog that went the bathroom in the house. I'm simply not tolerating it. As such, her punishments turned into cold shoulder retreats. She was able to figure out a way to attempt to control me and to shun me into submission and that was her go to.

In the last half of 2014, I had 2 pets die, a parent nearly died from a sudden and chronic illness, a grandparent died and an uncle died. I was numb. I mentioned to her I couldn't take anything more. So the very next day she decides to blow me off, break plans and give me the cold shoulder because I did not go to a store with her.

I was done. In that very moment. I knew it was intentional. It was to take the focus off of the bad that happened to me, almost a jealous reaction to the tragedies that had happened to me. That disgusted me.

This time was different.

When she went home for Christmas she was cold and distant. She thought she was getting a good punishment in. I on the other hand used the space as a time to ask myself those questions above. The answers were obvious. I took the distance to rekindle old friendships, to get in touch with my family and to restore my autonomy. In essence, I began to detach.

Furthermore, I realized, my attempts to fix the relationship were either totally ignored or rejected. What more could be said? I can not work with someone who is unwilling to work with me. How can a relationship be possible with someone like that? It simply can't survive the real stuff, only the facade in the beginning.

Whens he returned I asked for some time to think about things. I learned she can't even respect my boundaries. She has zero respect for me. She'd text me. "Hope you are ok" And I just started to see through it. You don't hope I'm ok. If you did you would talk to me about our relationship. If you cared about me you'd hear me out even if you disagreed you'd acknowledge my feelings. Again, I asked for space and she could not give me that.

She cheated on me a year ago and I found out she was hanging out with that person two days after we got back. That was it. I realized in that one moment not only do I have no trust in her, she doesn't respect me, she can't resolve problems, she is a hypocrite, I'm not happy, I've been kept in a state of anxiety on purpose so that I would focus on her and also what progress have we made over the past year the last time she cheated? Zero.

You must realize something. You do not love this person the way you think you do. I know you honestly and sincerely think you do, but I promise you, you don't. You are ADDICTED to them. You are OBSESSED with them. And it's by design. By keeping you on constant edge, constantly in a state of anxiety, by forcing you to hyper focus on fixing the relationship and to plead for them to work with you, essentially you have become their perfect source for narcissistic supply.

The realization that all my grief was BY DESIGN made me feel sick. Think about it. It's the reason when things are happy, or calm there always seems to be something happen right after that. That's because they don't want you to be calm, feel safe or be at ease. If you are those things than you will focus on you, your life and your family and friends. So the chaos is perpetuated and manufactured on purpose to extract narcissistic supply (attention) good or bad.

I was being emotionally abused. And chances are you are too. Has any of your hyper fixation EVER made things better? Have any of the ways you focus on him and try and figure him out gotten you close to figuring him out? Or just confused you more?

You are running in quick sand and it's on purpose and it's by design. Add to that the cheating, the lack of relational progress, and the fact I was so hyper focused I forgot to ask myself if I was even happy and I got one of those ah-ha moments people speak of.

I also began noticing that as time passed, as distance grew, the clarity sharpened and the fog lifted. THERE IS NO SADNESS LEAVING THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE IS NO REGRET.

You did all you could do. You tried as hard as you could. You did everything possible to try and fix things, make things better, compromise yourself, your health, your friends, your family. And for what? Did it change anything or did it just change the finish line as it became a little more out of reach just as you thought you were approaching it.

Break the cycle. Get some space, and your soul will return, break the fog and I promise you that your fear of losing them will be replaced with the anger and realization that you were being emotionally abused on purpose. Your exhaustion is because the black hole of their soul has been sucking you of all your energy to feed their ego. To feed their omnipotence. They get a kick by seeing how off tilt you are. To be the source of your pain. To be your muse. Once you see that along with the fact that things would never change, you won't ever look back. You'll just feel sadness for YOU not him. And you'll begin to work to heal from the realization that the entire relationship was a lie, from day one.

[apple2]

Hi Anxiety5,

I do appreciate you for sharing your story and thoughts with me. I'll print it out, read it again every time when I feel weak. Your words give me more reflection than my trainer gave me, since you had the similar experience as mine.

As you said, I thought I truly loved him, but it should be a kind of addiction. 

Yes, I was kept on the edge. I was lifted up one day, waited there only after no girl took him for party, he came back to me the next day. He shared everything of mine with his parents one day, he told me all goodies he did is only pretending, he does not love me, having me only for sex the next day. He said he loved me one minute, he told me he used me and manipulated me. He was hurt in childhood by girls and wanted to take revenge the next minute. He wanted me to visit him in his parent's house one day, and broke up with me the next day. It was like emotional torture. Someone draws you a wonderful picture today, and then tear the picture apart tomorrow.

I am asking myself, why I deserve all these? Even if he does not love me, even he treats me only as a friend, why hurting me repeatedly?

Every time I was totally shocked and did not know how should I answer to his incredible statements. I never imagined to hear those things in my life. Are those words from a human being? If a normal person tries to use someone, and you ask him, he would deny. What kind of courage should a person have to admit it? And afterwards, without saying sorry, still hope to recycle you?  I don't know whether his words are the truth or he wanted to hurt me by them.

He was so self-controversial. He said he would never contact me, then he came back. He said he would never have a relationship with me again, then he came back. At the beginning, I thought he is the good person in nature, just can't control himself sometime. Gradually, I don't know his true face anymore.

Finally, today, I sent him a message to refuse the 3. round recycling. I still love him somehow, but I can't spend time with a person, if I am not sure which face of him is real. I can't spend time with a person who does not even care about my feeling.

I was generally positive. I never had sleeping problem before. I was not so sensitive. But after I dated with him, I am not OK. I get headache, stomach, I cannot sleep long, I am depressed (although now a little bit better).

I did every thing I can to get rid of negative thoughts. I made vocation, I met old friends... .Just after my mind was not so obsessed, he wanted to recycle. I was suddenly drawn back to my emotional jail.

Today, I realized the whole story hits my physical limit. I felt for the first time in my life: if I am back without his gradual change, I would be finally crazy, I would die because of the endless headache and confusion.

Thank you anxiety5, I know it's addiction, rather than the healthy true love. I'll use your text to remind myself.

[anxiety5]

Hi Anxiety5,

I do appreciate you for sharing your story and thoughts with me. I'll print it out, read it again every time when I feel weak. Your words give me more reflection than my trainer gave me, since you had the similar experience as mine.

As you said, I thought I truly loved him, but it should be a kind of addiction. 

Yes, I was kept on the edge. I was lifted up one day, waited there only after no girl took him for party, he came back to me the next day. He shared everything of mine with his parents one day, he told me all goodies he did is only pretending, he does not love me, having me only for sex the next day. He said he loved me one minute, he told me he used me and manipulated me. He was hurt in childhood by girls and wanted to take revenge the next minute. He wanted me to visit him in his parent's house one day, and broke up with me the next day. It was like emotional torture. Someone draws you a wonderful picture today, and then tear the picture apart tomorrow.

I am asking myself, why I deserve all these? Even if he does not love me, even he treats me only as a friend, why hurting me repeatedly?

Every time I was totally shocked and did not know how should I answer to his incredible statements. I never imagined to hear those things in my life. Are those words from a human being? If a normal person tries to use someone, and you ask him, he would deny. What kind of courage should a person have to admit it? And afterwards, without saying sorry, still hope to recycle you?  I don't know whether his words are the truth or he wanted to hurt me by them.

He was so self-controversial. He said he would never contact me, then he came back. He said he would never have a relationship with me again, then he came back. At the beginning, I thought he is the good person in nature, just can't control himself sometime. Gradually, I don't know his true face anymore.

Finally, today, I sent him a message to refuse the 3. round recycling. I still love him somehow, but I can't spend time with a person, if I am not sure which face of him is real. I can't spend time with a person who does not even care about my feeling.

I was generally positive. I never had sleeping problem before. I was not so sensitive. But after I dated with him, I am not OK. I get headache, stomach, I cannot sleep long, I am depressed (although now a little bit better).

I did every thing I can to get rid of negative thoughts. I made vocation, I met old friends... .Just after my mind was not so obsessed, he wanted to recycle. I was suddenly drawn back to my emotional jail.

Today, I realized the whole story hits my physical limit. I felt for the first time in my life: if I am back without his gradual change, I would be finally crazy, I would die because of the endless headache and confusion.

Thank you anxiety5, I know it's addiction, rather than the healthy true love. I'll use your text to remind myself.

You are on a journey. Each person here is. You are welcome and I'm glad I could help. But, let us not forget, I used to post in the staying forums, I used to think I could somehow not invest myself emotionally and thus keep myself from being hurt. I used to think I could fix everything. I used to think we could be friends, I used to think we could still talk and somehow I would have the strength to enforce boundaries.

Today I have accepted that I was used. I accept that the relationship was a lie. I accept that I tried to fix someone. I accept that I tried to change our relationship. I accept that I was determining my self worth through someone else reinforcing that I was worthy of love. I accept that I did not leave even after I realized it really bad and not fixable.

I accept my role but you know what? I have learned SO much. Take things slow. Build my self confidence. Never again isolate myself from friends and family. Always pay attention to someone's actions not words. Always trust your intuition. If someone cheats on me, the relationship ends immediately. No exceptions. Maybe some can forgive this, but through the identification of my core values, that unfortunately for me is a total 100% deal breaker. I learned you can not change someone else, and if you are the only one trying to make a relationship better, it's not a relationship. I learned to have self respect. I learned that love is not abusive, it is not unfaithful, it doesn't always have to win arguments, it isn't controlling. It doesn't seek isolation from your friends. It isn't cruel and it doesn't give you silent treatments.

There are things about this relationship that I learned about myself that would only have been possible through going through this hell. That is my gift. The gift of self awareness, personal empowerment, the gift of figuring out who Iam, what matters to me, and how I can find all of those things within myself and don't need someone else to validate my self worth. That in itself means I will never fall for love bombing again. Those deficits that the manipulator filled are gone. I'm not perfect, but I'm perfectly happy with who Iam. I don't need someone's approval to feel good about myself. More than anything I realized this. You are in control of your own life. You are in control of tomorrow. Nobody else. They do not have power over you.

As far as the hurt you feel, I get all of that. Don't beat yourself up for ruminating, that's how you figure out all the areas you need to work on and what you may have missed or ignored. These people are like drug addicts though. They are addicted to a supply to feed their ego. Suppose your sibling left his family, abandoned his kids and wife, left his job and ended up living under a bridge. Each and every one of these things would be a separate tragedy that would hurt you so badly. Why did they do these things? But suppose I tell you that your sibling is a heroin addict. Suddenly you get it. It's not that his wife or his kids or his job or life weren't good enough. He is an addict. That's what addicts do as their addiction consumes them. They lose everything. It is still sad, but suddenly you realize that everything that happened was predictable and most importantly it's the nature of an addict. This doesn't make the hurt go away but it does provide one invaluable asset to your recovery. THIS PERSON AND THEIR ACTIONS IS THEIR PATHOLOGY. It has NOTHING to do with you not being good enough, attractive enough, smart enough, wealthy enough, etc. The ultimate gift is the ability to realize that they have a condition that much like an addict consumes and runs their lives, hence the trail of destruction. Therefore you can leave these situations with your dignity intact, it wasn't you that failed, there is nothing from their rejection to take personally no matter how cruel, how mean, how irrational it's their pathology, not you or anything you did. Nobody can ever understand how an addict can be happy living under a bridge alone and destitute. Likewise, we can't figure out why these people do the things they do either by living their lives in a state of chaos and destruction.  In both cases, its their underlying condition that drives it. Therefore there is no sense on trying to figure it out.

These realizations helped me let go. You are not weak, you are strong. Think of how much you took, how much you dealt with and how through all of it you still had more to give. That is STRENGTH. That is a STRONG will. This is your foundation for a better tomorrow. You just need to spend that energy on someone capable of loving you back.

You did everything you could. You can't quit something when the other person isn't trying. But you can accept that you've tried as hard as you could, you've exhausted every outlet and nothing got better. You can realize you deserve and want more out of a relationship. And you can find all the gifts within yourself to build that foundation of a better future moving forward.

It's a process. The fact you are here means you are ready. And you WILL succeed. You don't need anyone to believe in you, as long as you believe in yourself.

[Seriously?]

This all makes me really think about my own part in it. I needed to be angry for a while,  I think. Now, I am just kind of resolved to what it was.  My husband cannot love me with commitment or consistence.  I am moving on, realizing there is nothing I can do,  realizing my love and offer of emotional intimacy triggers him to act in a way I cannot accept.  I cannot accept a cheater, a liar,  a man who would ask me to give up all my other close relationships for him. There was some really great stuff I experienced being with him, but in the end, I have recognized it is just not worth it. I deluded myself thinking we could have it all. Unfortunately,  it is impossible.  I am in therapy working on me now. I am taking the focus off him and off how I think I was wronged. I am determined to be the woman I want to be that I really cannot be with him. Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread.  It is so helpful.

[anxiety5]

This all makes me really think about my own part in it. I needed to be angry for a while,  I think. Now, I am just kind of resolved to what it was.  My husband cannot love me with commitment or consistence.  I am moving on, realizing there is nothing I can do,  realizing my love and offer of emotional intimacy triggers him to act in a way I cannot accept.  I cannot accept a cheater, a liar,  a man who would ask me to give up all my other close relationships for him. There was some really great stuff I experienced being with him, but in the end, I have recognized it is just not worth it. I deluded myself thinking we could have it all. Unfortunately,  it is impossible.  I am in therapy working on me now. I am taking the focus off him and off how I think I was wronged. I am determined to be the woman I want to be that I really cannot be with him. Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread.  It is so helpful.

We often feel in the end of these relationships that WE lost, and somehow there is a perception that THEY win whether it's their lack of care, or lack of motivation to hear us or to resolve anything, something about the entire devaluation and discard makes us feel less than. The fact is, you are being accountable for your future, you are working on you now. Working to heal and to grow. That is courageous and it's powerful.

They are unaccountable. They don't work on themselves, they just blame. They aren't concerned with the future, or any stability. These defenses mean they are incapable of change.

The future is beyond the horizon. WE are the one's who honestly and genuinely embrace change. WE are the one's longing for and capable of growth. In essence, WE are the one's who have the chance for true love and happiness.

So who really is the loser? It's certainly not us.

I wish you all the best. Some of the conclusions you are coming to are 90% of the battle. Think how long it took to come to those conclusions. Accepting things and healing compared to the hell we've been through is nothing compared to what we've endured. The hard part is getting to a place where you refuse any more nonsense, and actually meaning it.

You are there. Congrats I know that conclusion isn't an easy one to come to. To just let things be. To accept things, to try and find the lessons you learned, and to focus on ourselves rather than them. But, you've gotten there. And, I don't think there's anything that can stop you now. Everything is gong to fall in place.

[apple2]

These realizations helped me let go. You are not weak, you are strong. Think of how much you took, how much you dealt with and how through all of it you still had more to give. That is STRENGTH. That is a STRONG will. This is your foundation for a better tomorrow. You just need to spend that energy on someone capable of loving you back.

It's a process. The fact you are here means you are ready. And you WILL succeed. You don't need anyone to believe in you, as long as you believe in yourself.

Hi Anxiety5,

He said something as "You are not good enough for me", "I don't love you, you cannot urge me to love you". Although from the beginning to the end, he was always the one who initiated a date with me, who sent me messages at first, who wanted to meet me at least 2-3 times during the week, who suggested doing something together at almost every weekend during the past 6 months. I had no clue what happened, my world was crazy.

I felt I had someone who stayed with me just in order to show me that I am worse (Although from many perspectives, such as education, job, wealth, appearance... .we are at the similar/same level), and to show me he has the "ability" to love, just not love me. Then why stayed with me and did good things for me? I was confused. My self-confidence was damaged during the past months with him. I tried to care more about his feeling, give more love... .in order to be accepted by him and to avoid the next love bomb.

I was afraid of losing that person. But now, I can face my fear. If someone broke up with me only due to bad mood, if someone makes me crying and feels pissed off by my tears, why I am afraid of losing him.

I have less empathy/sympathy for him right now. As you said, if he is isolated from his friends, if nobody cares about him, if his ex treats him now harsh, if he is alone, all of these are resulted from his own behavior. He should taste the destiny he created for himself. I also don't bother knowing his true thoughts. I don't believe him anymore. I can no more tell which is his true face.

I thought I was weak in this relationship. I was the one who always made compromise. I was the one who could forgive and forget so easily. Thank you for letting me know that I was indeed strong to deal with all those things. Thank you for letting me know that I have the foundation for a better tomorrow.

[Trog]

Hi Anxiety5,

I am glad to see that you have already figured out your situation and got yourself out of the circle.

I would like to ask for some advice. I was like you, trying to fix the relationship. For me, I think the only way to make mine pwBPD take me or anyone in a relationship seriously is to ignore him, to set limits, to leave him. It sounds ridiculous, but if I try to love him and meet his needs, the relationship will be all about his wishes in the end. And he feels he has the right to do anything,even emotional abuse.

But sometimes, I have too much sympathy for him. It hinders me to set limits, because he looks quite unhappy and painful.

How did you make the resolution to set limits and to leave this kind of relationship without doubt? Mine is trying to recycle me, but I don't want to start a new round again. I am not strong enough. Therefore, want to ask for your opinion.

I'm sorry you are going through all of this. God knows we (and I) can empathize. Your question is a very good one. I can't say for sure what will work for you, but let me tell you what happened with me as to awaken my breaking point.

Stop for a moment. Stop trying to figure everything out. Stop going over all the details past and present. Stop over thinking and start feeling instead. You are probably in a perpetual state of anxiety like I was. Constantly waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop. Are you happy? If you knew in the beginning things would go this way, and you could somehow go back without attaching would you still go down the path you did? Or would you run? Is this what you envision a relationship to be like? Is this what you want for your future?

When we are kept on edge, we are hyper focused on someone else as our fixer reflex is activated. When everything around you is in a state of flux, when actions, words, and behaviors are contradictory and irrational, it's human nature to try and "figure it out" If you were to walk outside tomorrow and the sky were green, the grass were blue and your house were a different color, would you be able to go about your day? No. You would probably focus on what the heck was happening? What is going on? How did this happen? What does it mean? None of it makes sense. And likewise we end up hyper focusing on trying to figure it out.

My ex was notorious for shunning me. She used to rage, but I can hang with the best of them. I'm not a doormat. If you rage at me you better have a damn good reason, because I'm going to give it to you right back. Nobody talks to me like I'm a freaking dog that went the bathroom in the house. I'm simply not tolerating it. As such, her punishments turned into cold shoulder retreats. She was able to figure out a way to attempt to control me and to shun me into submission and that was her go to.

In the last half of 2014, I had 2 pets die, a parent nearly died from a sudden and chronic illness, a grandparent died and an uncle died. I was numb. I mentioned to her I couldn't take anything more. So the very next day she decides to blow me off, break plans and give me the cold shoulder because I did not go to a store with her.

I was done. In that very moment. I knew it was intentional. It was to take the focus off of the bad that happened to me, almost a jealous reaction to the tragedies that had happened to me. That disgusted me.

This time was different.

When she went home for Christmas she was cold and distant. She thought she was getting a good punishment in. I on the other hand used the space as a time to ask myself those questions above. The answers were obvious. I took the distance to rekindle old friendships, to get in touch with my family and to restore my autonomy. In essence, I began to detach.

Furthermore, I realized, my attempts to fix the relationship were either totally ignored or rejected. What more could be said? I can not work with someone who is unwilling to work with me. How can a relationship be possible with someone like that? It simply can't survive the real stuff, only the facade in the beginning.

Whens he returned I asked for some time to think about things. I learned she can't even respect my boundaries. She has zero respect for me. She'd text me. "Hope you are ok" And I just started to see through it. You don't hope I'm ok. If you did you would talk to me about our relationship. If you cared about me you'd hear me out even if you disagreed you'd acknowledge my feelings. Again, I asked for space and she could not give me that.

She cheated on me a year ago and I found out she was hanging out with that person two days after we got back. That was it. I realized in that one moment not only do I have no trust in her, she doesn't respect me, she can't resolve problems, she is a hypocrite, I'm not happy, I've been kept in a state of anxiety on purpose so that I would focus on her and also what progress have we made over the past year the last time she cheated? Zero.

You must realize something. You do not love this person the way you think you do. I know you honestly and sincerely think you do, but I promise you, you don't. You are ADDICTED to them. You are OBSESSED with them. And it's by design. By keeping you on constant edge, constantly in a state of anxiety, by forcing you to hyper focus on fixing the relationship and to plead for them to work with you, essentially you have become their perfect source for narcissistic supply.

The realization that all my grief was BY DESIGN made me feel sick. Think about it. It's the reason when things are happy, or calm there always seems to be something happen right after that. That's because they don't want you to be calm, feel safe or be at ease. If you are those things than you will focus on you, your life and your family and friends. So the chaos is perpetuated and manufactured on purpose to extract narcissistic supply (attention) good or bad.

I was being emotionally abused. And chances are you are too. Has any of your hyper fixation EVER made things better? Have any of the ways you focus on him and try and figure him out gotten you close to figuring him out? Or just confused you more?

You are running in quick sand and it's on purpose and it's by design. Add to that the cheating, the lack of relational progress, and the fact I was so hyper focused I forgot to ask myself if I was even happy and I got one of those ah-ha moments people speak of.

I also began noticing that as time passed, as distance grew, the clarity sharpened and the fog lifted. THERE IS NO SADNESS LEAVING THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE IS NO REGRET.

You did all you could do. You tried as hard as you could. You did everything possible to try and fix things, make things better, compromise yourself, your health, your friends, your family. And for what? Did it change anything or did it just change the finish line as it became a little more out of reach just as you thought you were approaching it.

Break the cycle. Get some space, and your soul will return, break the fog and I promise you that your fear of losing them will be replaced with the anger and realization that you were being emotionally abused on purpose. Your exhaustion is because the black hole of their soul has been sucking you of all your energy to feed their ego. To feed their omnipotence. They get a kick by seeing how off tilt you are. To be the source of your pain. To be your muse. Once you see that along with the fact that things would never change, you won't ever look back. You'll just feel sadness for YOU not him. And you'll begin to work to heal from the realization that the entire relationship was a lie, from day one.

I got a new mobile phone today. Because of this post, I'm going to keep the old one and charge it up now and again and thank it for the use it gave me. Poor washing machine! I care which tip it went too!

[Elpis]

Anxiety,

somehow, reading your original post and most of what came after, i'm feeling a bit sick. Seeing your relationship journey and realizations and the realizations of others has made me all the more aware of the stuff I didn't see in my several decade long marriage.

My h was in the process of divorcing his first wife when we met--I didn't even know his divorce wasn't final. We were in our early 20s and somehow he managed to get past my defenses over time by being understanding. He was good looking, charming, attentive, all the "right stuff" a 20-something girl is looking for. He even shared my interests, though he never followed through on them other than by buying expensive equipment he wouldn't actually use.

It wasn't till our kids were grown that I realized my needs and identity were pretty much sublimated to his "greater" needs and self. And now that i'm out of the house from him and the fog is lifting I can see how he is a tidal wave dragging others into his wake, and trying to destroy me as he (and they) roll over me. But i'm stubborn. I won't go down. My life may have altered in its appearance when it's over, but I'm strong enough to hang on.

I do wonder what all he has lied to me about over time, knowing just the lies I've found out about. Oh well, he can take that mess back out to sea with him.

My hope has to lie in the changes I can make in myself. Can't change what's gone before, only my choices for my future.

Thanks for sharing your own observations and life lessons.

[eyvindr]

anxiety5 --

Lots of great feedback in this thread -- thanks. Particularly like this comparison:

Suppose your sibling left his family, abandoned his kids and wife, left his job and ended up living under a bridge. Each and every one of these things would be a separate tragedy that would hurt you so badly. Why did they do these things? But suppose I tell you that your sibling is a heroin addict. Suddenly you get it. It's not that his wife or his kids or his job or life weren't good enough. He is an addict. That's what addicts do as their addiction consumes them. They lose everything. It is still sad, but suddenly you realize that everything that happened was predictable and most importantly it's the nature of an addict. This doesn't make the hurt go away but it does provide one invaluable asset to your recovery. THIS PERSON AND THEIR ACTIONS IS THEIR PATHOLOGY. It has NOTHING to do with you not being good enough, attractive enough, smart enough, wealthy enough, etc. The ultimate gift is the ability to realize that they have a condition that much like an addict consumes and runs their lives, hence the trail of destruction. Therefore you can leave these situations with your dignity intact, it wasn't you that failed, there is nothing from their rejection to take personally no matter how cruel, how mean, how irrational it's their pathology, not you or anything you did. Nobody can ever understand how an addict can be happy living under a bridge alone and destitute. Likewise, we can't figure out why these people do the things they do either by living their lives in a state of chaos and destruction. In both cases, its their underlying condition that drives it. Therefore there is no sense on trying to figure it out.

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .