BPD and observing a 4 year old

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I was with my mother and niece today for a few hours.

My niece did something to deserve a time out for a few minutes (less than 5 mins).

She cried during the time out to the point where my mother went to console her.

I later informed my mother of what I thought was going on which was that my niece was very upset about getting in trouble so that she would get attention during the time out and that my mother was kind of rewarding her for bad behavior.

I then thought of my uBPDexgf and how she likely cried as a toddler but was not comforted enough.

That made me feel bad for my ex, but also a bit guilty for how I reacted to my niece.  That was likely an overreaction because my niece is well loved and cared for, so I was more advocating making a punishment an actual negative thing and also maybe letting her self sooth just a bit as a tentative step toward a bit of independence.  Anyways, I am childless and no expert.

But watching the emotions of a 4 year old is very instructive for understanding a BPD.  And imagining what happens to a child if they don't get enough love and affection.  I just imagined my ex sitting as a 4 year old and crying and knowing that no one was going to come to her.  :'(

I would call her family of origin a bunch of animals, but I don't want to besmirch the good name of animals.  A female german shepherd displays much more care for her pups.

[raisins3142]

I was with my mother and niece today for a few hours.

My niece did something to deserve a time out for a few minutes (less than 5 mins).

She cried during the time out to the point where my mother went to console her.

I later informed my mother of what I thought was going on which was that my niece was very upset about getting in trouble so that she would get attention during the time out and that my mother was kind of rewarding her for bad behavior.

I then thought of my uBPDexgf and how she likely cried as a toddler but was not comforted enough.

That made me feel bad for my ex, but also a bit guilty for how I reacted to my niece.  That was likely an overreaction because my niece is well loved and cared for, so I was more advocating making a punishment an actual negative thing and also maybe letting her self sooth just a bit as a tentative step toward a bit of independence.  Anyways, I am childless and no expert.

But watching the emotions of a 4 year old is very instructive for understanding a BPD.  And imagining what happens to a child if they don't get enough love and affection.  I just imagined my ex sitting as a 4 year old and crying and knowing that no one was going to come to her.  :'(

I would call her family of origin a bunch of animals, but I don't want to besmirch the good name of animals.  A female german shepherd displays much more care for her pups.

[Turkish]

I watched S5 then S3 who turned S4 just before his mom moved out. He was upset over something and she said, "but I love you S3!" He said, "I don't love you!" She turned to me and asked "why would he say that?" I resisted being snarky and saying, "because he's splitting us like you did me, but he has an excuse: he's 3!"

It's good that you're cognizant of these things, raisins, in case you ever have kids. Even not, you'll be an influence in some child's life. I'm still a newbie, working these things out with our S5 and D2, and believe me, I have enough stories every day such that I could start my own blog.

You're on the right track about your analysis of that situation. Kids need love and attention, but they also need boundaries, and those are attention, too.

[enlighten me]

Its difficult with kids trying to get a balance of punishing wrong doing whilst showing that you love them. My eldest would rage and have tantrums which deserved punishment. He would be told off, sent to his room, have privilages restricted etc etc. What made it more difficult was my uBPD ex wife would lie and say he had done things he hadnt. He has turned into a dantastic teen. He appologises when he is wrong and is well adjusted. I think having strong boundaries and not rewarding wrong doing is key to this. Also being able to appologise if you were wrong.

My uBPDexgf rewards bad behaviour and this has made her kids behaviour worse. If she ever tells them off she will go out and buy them something. They know she will cave.

[Skip]

I would call her family of origin a bunch of animals, but I don't want to besmirch the good name of animals.  A female german shepherd displays much more care for her pups.

Was her grandmother/guardian abusive?  How much did the rape (late in teenage years) play into this?

[Hadlee]

Heya raisins3142

I can relate.  My ex behaved worse than our four year old.  Our son went through his tantrum stage however it was nothing compared to that of his father.  They are children stuck in an adult body living in an adult world.

Terribly sorry for your struggles.

Sincerely,

Busygall

[hergestridge]

But watching the emotions of a 4 year old is very instructive for understanding a BPD.  And imagining what happens to a child if they don't get enough love and affection.

Yes it is indeed. It was a real eye opener when my daughter became 3-4 years old, because she would pick up a lot of traits that would remind me of her (borderline) mother.

I would really have to remind myself that her behavior is natural for her age and nothing else. I had to control myself not to reprimand her for being "bad".

Now she is five and surprises me everyday with her emotional maturity. I am convinced this is because I have set the standard so low after having spent 20 years with a BPD partner.

[raisins3142]

I would call her family of origin a bunch of animals, but I don't want to besmirch the good name of animals.  A female german shepherd displays much more care for her pups.

Was her grandmother/guardian abusive?  How much did the rape (late in teenage years) play into this?

Dad abandoned her but would be nicer to her brother.  Mom was physically/verbally/emotionally abusive.  Mom packed her up at age 2 and left her with grandma to raise and kept brother.  Ex doesn't talk about grandma much, her memory was poor and had some amnesia.  Grandma just seems bizarre and an alcoholic and promiscuous even at an old age.  My ex had a lot of sexual dysfunction.  My guess is that the probability of her being sexually abused as a child is over 90%.

[Mutt]

Did you know her FOO before or when you met her or sort of learned about it in the r/s?

[raisins3142]

Did you know her FOO before or when you met her or sort of learned about it in the r/s?

Learned about it in the r/s.

[Skip]

My ex had a lot of sexual dysfunction.  My guess is that the probability of her being sexually abused as a child is over 90%.

You think that prior to the rape as a late aged teenager that there is a 90% chance that she was sexually abused while living with her grandmother? 

She never said she was sexually abused other than the rape. On what do you base such a highly specific prediction?

[raisins3142]

My ex had a lot of sexual dysfunction.  My guess is that the probability of her being sexually abused as a child is over 90%.

You think that prior to the rape as a late aged teenager that there is a 90% chance that she was sexually abused while living with her grandmother?  

She never said she was sexually abused other than the rape. On what do you base such a highly specific prediction?

I get that you are trying to get me to ascertain what I do and do not know and to place proper confidence bounds related to reasonable certainty levels.

It was not specific really.  A probability guess rounded to the nearest value of 10.

It is just a strong gut feeling.  It is based upon life experience and a few things:

1. her living situation where she was incredibly vulnerable (abandoned and no real caretaker besides a drunk old lady, seeking affection due to abandonment, a family that openly says they greatly trust everyone (even strangers) until given a reason not to, the drunk grandma was highly promiscuous and was not faithful to her many husbands), and odd things like her grandma's husband of the year taking my ex to a bar as a child would occur

2. she does not remember a large chunk of her childhood and what she did remember was not discussed much

3. she said multiple times how there are so many things that she wants to tell me but cannot, and she would weep

4. she told me that she was raised to believe that women were to please men sexually and could not refuse them, yet she said her family never talked about sex and she even had to figure out her first menstruation on her own

5. she began having sex at a young age with her first serious boyfriend

6. she stated that as a child she had frequent, chronic urinary tract infections

7. she had sexual dysfunction that spanned all her relationships (difficulty in arousal and orgasm, faking orgasm, and other things) and was not intimate about sex and often violent (would hurt me and would want that back and to be dominated in a way where she was being "used"

8. bizarre relationship with male attention and likely promiscuous in her past

So, none of this is knockdown proof, but it is a lot of circumstantial evidence all creating in me a very distinct impression.

I've had 2 girlfriends that I believe were abused in this manner, and the difference between them and the other women I have been with is rather stark.