Is he capable of being "sorry"?

[Beach_Babe]

klacey:  Yours sounds really cracked as well... .how are you doing?

EaglesJuju: how wonderful you received an apology. How long did it take him?

cyclist:  your exhusband thing "sorry don't contact me bye" is hilarious. Was he also BPD?

Michelle:  what would your ex rage about?

FSO: thank you! Do you think his behavior was harsh, even for a BPD?

Mutt:  not hanging onto the words... .good or bad, thats the hardest part. But his actions suck too so I guess its over. 

valet: I think I am having a hard time reconciling the past 14 years was a lie.

[English Sid]

Hi Beach Babe

Not tried as yet, but I was told last night by someone she knows that she is now back in the same country has me and working, (next city to where I live) and that she was asking about me and if I am with anyone.

The lady who told me works in the bar I frequent and said that my ex told her I am not replying to any of her correspondence to me and she thought my ex still thinks there is a chance of a reconciliation.

I have been strictly NC since the relationship ended 3 months ago.

I asked the lady if she did not mind, to just to tell her if she contacted her again that she has not seen me.

I have no wish to re-engage in this relationship.

[Teereese]

Teeresse:  Ok that has to be one of the craziest stories i've heard. How long was he able to fool the hospital staff before they realized there was something wrong?

When he dysregulated, he went all out.

He was in for less than 24 hours before he got to a phone. That long without contact was likely driving him mad.

From what I was told, he was a "perfect patient", very helpful, compliant, etc.

Of course, because he had a goal (contact) and had to manipulate and gain trust to reach that goal.

[Corgicuddler95]

Corgi:  I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother. She abandoned you at a time like that? How awful! What was her reasoning why?

Anxiety, which I accept. What really hurt was that the last time I saw her she wouldn't apologies for it, she doesn't mind how lonely and valueless I felt at the time.

[AwakenedOne]

I think pwBPD can be ashamed but still not be sorry in the way a NON thinks of the word sorry. What is really going on is blame and shame I think more than a real sorry sometimes.

[myself]

The rare few times she said "sorry" were to keep the attachment in place.

[Michelle27]

Michelle:  what would your ex rage about?

Anything, really.  Once, there was a TWELVE hour rage about where to place a bag of garbage.  I apparently placed it 3 inches to the side of where he wanted it placed.  With the first mention of it, I said, "sure no problem" but he continued raging about it and about how insensitive I was to his needs and placing the bag "in his way" was proof of that.  I left the house even and he continued blowing up my phone about it. Insanity.  Another time, my daughter from my first marriage accidentally dropped a sock from her laundry basket onto the floor when she was carrying her basket from the dryer.  She didn't pick it up immediately (put her laundry away first) and he flipped out, grabbed the sock, brought it down to her room, stormed in and yelled about how irresponsible she was.  Meanwhile, his dirty socks from that day had been sitting on the floor next to his spot on the couch for hours... . I look back now, and really know there was something big wrong with me to continue to tolerate things like this for so many years.  

[Beach_Babe]

EnglishSid: good for you! I only hope one day I get to that point. Why allow her back when you KNOW she will only screw you over again. Not worth it.

Teerese: . Wow, just... .wow! Has he done crazy stuff like this before?

Corgi: Anxiety? That was her "reason"? What B*****t. This was about YOUR grandmother (and YOUR pain) not her. How selfish can you get, really? Im so sorry ugh,

AwakenedOne: what do you mean? It appears to me shame=pity party for themselves. No one else counts really.

myself: I found that to be the case as well... .either that or he wanted something.

Michelle27: yeah mine was the same: total hypocrite. Why do you think you tolerated that for so long?

[Michelle27]

That's exactly what I have been working through most of the past year... .why I tolerated it for so long.  I think it's a couple reasons.  One, I went into the relationship without much in the way of self esteem.  I was very overweight and was 6 months out of an abusive marriage and didn't do much in the way of work on myself before I met him.  I think he was high functioning when we met and it wasn't until a few years had passed and some major stresses hit including his son from his first marriage disclosing sexual abuse at the hands of his stepbrothers in his Mom's home, the birth of our daughter and getting married.  By then, I was deep in the FOG.  About 4 years ago, I began the process that would begin my work on myself.  I began taking care of myself for the first time in my life, gaining self esteem and strength.  I ended up losing 140 lbs and learned a lot about myself. 

[AwakenedOne]

AwakenedOne: what do you mean? It appears to me shame=pity party for themselves. No one else counts really.

My Xwife told me some things that only now I believe I understand the meaning of. At the time it just seemed to be hollow words because she was living a fun and games life, destroying a marriage with someone who loved her along with the refusal / disinterest to get any real help. She said she felt so guilty or ashamed that at times it was close to unbearable. I heard many "sorrys". Being sorry requires a change or a serious attempt to do so or it doesn't mean much. Many pwBPD feel shame for their actions and feel they are worthless and something is deeply wrong with them. Some only mouth the words "sorry" and then they run off or they just expect to have a minimal 15 sec conversation stating sorry and then you are not allowed to add any comments directed toward them even if you are forgiving at the same time. The additional comment or comments requires them to answer hard questions and look at themselves so then it then turns into a "but you made me do it" type of conversation which invalidates the "sorry". Add into the mix that a large amount of pwBPD are NPD also or have heavy narc traits. My X is such a person . She views herself as a queen and carries shame and worthlessness at the same time. A queen who feels entitled but dislikes herself. For the most part I feel sorry for her. Still not sorry enough though that I will ever speak to her again though.

[EaglesJuju]

EaglesJuju: how wonderful you received an apology. How long did it take him?

It took three months to receive it. He apologized for 5 years of behavior.

I have had a tendency to blame myself for everything.  Regardless of him apologizing and asking for forgiveness, I am learning to forgive myself. I have been way too hard on myself and have struggled with guilt about the things I should have done.

Do you think you are too hard on yourself Beach_Babe?

[Invictus01]

I got the "I'm sorry for leading you on, for what is worth I really cherish your friendship" about 8 months after she ghosted me. She had a few opportunities to do that in those 8 months - never once she did that. I don't know what moved her to say that 8 months later and why it took that long.

[Beach_Babe]

Michelle: 140 pounds? That's incredible! How  did you lose it? Did you ex get jealous at the change?

AwakenedOne: That describes my ex perfectly. A king who felt shame and worthlessness at the same time. And any apology, as you said, was a 15 second conversation.  I learned not to persist otherwise he would turn the whole thing around and blame me.  He is NPD. Its a lost cause.

EaglesJuju: what wonderful news! I am so happy to hear about that. Are you too now officially back together?

[Michelle27]

Michelle: 140 pounds? That's incredible! How  did you lose it? Did you ex get jealous at the change?

It's funny how it came about actually.  5 years ago when I took myself to a therapist trying to make sense out of the behaviors I was seeing from my uBPDstbxh, after he sabotaged 3 different marriage counseling attempts and a couple's communication course I wanted help in how I could help my husband.  It took 4 or 5 sessions before the therapist got it through my head that I couldn't help him, but I should focus on taking care of myself.  I had spent much of the previous 25 years "on a diet" but never got the exercise side of things right.  So I made a pact with myself to commit to aquafit 2-3 times a week for at least a few months.  I needed to change my attitude about exercise and wanted to learn to like it after a lifetime of hating it.  It's hard to like it when you weight 340 lbs. LOL  I ended up enjoying it, and got a surprising benefit of gaining new friends while at this activity.  It opened a world up to me... .at that point I was pretty much a hermit, taking care of my kids, going to work and trying to deal with the raging behaviors and my sense that something was wrong (it was... .I've since been told my my stbxh that during that year he carried on a year long affair with a so-called friend of mine).  Taking care of myself was exactly what I needed.  After 7 months of regular aquafit classes, I was down 20 lbs and ready to take on changing my diet.  I started a moderate program of basically calories in/calories out using a free web app and the rest is history.  It's been slow progress (been about 4.5 years since I started) but I think that's the healthy way.  I've gone from having to rest when taking a load of laundry up one flight of stairs to doing 3 5Ks and a 10K.  Exercise is something I crave, and eating healthy now comes naturally.  No gimmicks, no weird "diets" (I eat what I want, just in moderation). 

My stbxh did struggle with my weight loss.  He claimed to be proud of me, but it felt phony and like he was saying what was expected of him.  I do think he had trouble more with me becoming more confident and social than I had been as an obese woman.  The confidence I gained especially.  I do now believe he targeted me when we met because of my self esteem issues, in part due to my weight.  My replacement is obese and his first wife was overweight. 

[Mutt]

What was your experience?  :)id your ex actually apologize, or just try to recycle?

Hey Beach _Babe,

You gave us an example when your ex was emotionally dysregulated.

Screaming for over an hour how he is sorry I didnt die and what an awful b*tch and whore.

Do you have other examples where he said sorry when he wasn't dysregulated?

[Beach_Babe]

I got the "I'm sorry for leading you on, for what is worth I really cherish your friendship" about 8 months after she ghosted me. She had a few opportunities to do that in those 8 months - never once she did that. I don't know what moved her to say that 8 months later and why it took that long.

Hmmm did you ever ask her?

[Invictus01]

I got the "I'm sorry for leading you on, for what is worth I really cherish your friendship" about 8 months after she ghosted me. She had a few opportunities to do that in those 8 months - never once she did that. I don't know what moved her to say that 8 months later and why it took that long.

Hmmm did you ever ask her?

To be honest... .I just didn't have any desire to know at that point. I was still hurting, and to be honest, at almost 12 months still do on some level... .But what do you say to somebody who knew exactly how she made me feel... .and said nothing till 8 months later? Why? But what would it change?

[Beach_Babe]

Mutt: not really.

Invictus: your ex hit bottom? That is my best guess what changed?

Michelle: Wow, you go girl. Good for YOU! Ive lost 15 pounds myself doing a low carb diet.  As for the ex he was  very competitive and spiteful. He became bent out of shape,for example, anytime something  "good" happened to ME. When it happened for HIM however he'd withdraw or dump me. He was a pure user, and I a willing participant. Dunno, maybe some people really are just rotten. Some days I feel at peace with that, others I just wish he was dead. What can I say, this is a work in progress.

[Steve4444]

I have never heard "I'm sorry" from my BPDw. Never.  I find myself apologizing all the time, many times in situations in which an apology isn't really even necessary but when I think maybe it will calm things down.

[Michelle27]

I didn't realize how often I said "I'm sorry" for every little thing until it was pointed out a few months into a new relationship and I said it often enough to annoy him.  Found myself a few times saying "I'm sorry" when I saw him roll his eyes after I apologized for something. LOL 

My ex used to say sorry but rarely, and I don't believe for a second that he meant it. He was manipulative enough that I think he said it when he felt backed into a corner and knew he should say it.  Obviously he never meant it because nothing he ever apologized for changed.  Not to mention that half the time apologies came like, "I'm sorry, but you... .". 

[flourdust]

I have never heard "I'm sorry" from my BPDw. Never.  I find myself apologizing all the time, many times in situations in which an apology isn't really even necessary but when I think maybe it will calm things down.

This is something that I have stopped. I'll validate her feeling or at least acknowledge it, and I won't belittle it, but I won't apologize for things that didn't happen, that weren't the way she perceived them, or are utterly trivial. When I do apologize, I won't turn it into a cascade of repeated apologies.

Another point... .I've noticed that while my BPDw only very very rarely apologizes, she'll CLAIM that she apologizes all the time. She likes to talk about how often she has to apologize to me. Yet, when I search my memory banks, those apologies aren't there... .