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Author Topic: This just doesn't makes any sense - 1  (Read 6856 times)
FallenOne
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« on: January 14, 2017, 09:51:32 AM »

Four years together... I was her longest relationship. We had a few long periods of stability, but in the end it turned into a disaster. This was just over 3 weeks ago.

But since she stayed with me longer than anyone else, does that mean I was the best in her eyes?
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 10:59:29 AM »

i know what you mean, matt. i was my exes longest relationship at the time, and had the same question.

what does being the best in her eyes mean to you?
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 11:06:32 AM »

i know what you mean, matt. i was my exes longest relationship at the time, and had the same question.

what does being the best in her eyes mean to you?

It would be nice to think that I meant (or still mean) something to her... .Even with the way it ended. It's hard to try and tell yourself that you were with someone for 4 years for nothing, or that it was never really love...

Something made them stay that long... What was it?
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 11:24:09 AM »

Something made them stay that long... What was it?

what made you stay that long? the answer may be the same, or similar, for her.

by the very nature of BPD, loved ones "mean" a great deal - even when split black. of course what "mean" means is complex, some of it sobering and painful, most of it specific to the person and the relationship.

for me personally: our near three years together certainly wasnt for nothing, though what it meant to me has evolved over the years. i think that we both loved each other to the extent that we could. i think a lot of that love (on both sides) was immature and based on need. that doesnt mean we didnt feel for each other intensely, or that it was all for naught. i believe all relationships have something to teach us, and there is growth to be found. for what its worth, my exes relationship after me lasted longer than we did. i dont use that as a measure of the quality of their relationship vs ours.

and of course thats from a detached perspective. right now youre focused on what you and this person mean and still mean to each other in a very personal sense, which is natural.

you know her better than we do. what do you think you meant to her then, and what do you think you mean to her now? what evidence are you using to guide it?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 11:39:02 AM »

what made you stay that long?

High compatibility and similar values... Drug-like intimacy... I enjoyed helping her through her struggles (through therapy mostly) and experiencing the ups and downs with her... It was nice to feel wanted AND needed. When you're dating an independent person, you just don't get that same feeling of being needed... .

you know her better than we do. what do you think you meant to her then, and what do you think you mean to her now? what evidence are you using to guide it?

I must have meant a lot to her for her to stay that long... Though, I felt more like her caretaker than her boyfriend a lot of the time, especially closer to the end. Someone said before that I was just great at giving into her needs and that's why she stayed so long...

I don't feel as if I mean anything to her now, considering that she threw me away like garbage right before Christmas and filed a restraining order...
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 11:46:28 AM »

When you're dating an independent person, you just don't get that same feeling of being needed... .

i can certainly relate. i found in my ex many qualities (in her and in the relationship) id never had. i equated them with love at the time. do you?

I don't feel as if I mean anything to her now, considering that she threw me away like garbage right before Christmas and filed a restraining order...

i would suggest that such lengths do indicate you "mean" a great deal, not necessarily in the way you want them to, but in a distorted, disordered way; its how she copes.

and on the flip side, though the actions may indicate your current significance, how she copes is not a reflection of you, but of her.

make sense?
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 11:57:34 AM »

and on the flip side, though the actions may indicate your current significance, how she copes is not a reflection of you, but of her.

make sense?

Not entirely... Can you simplify?
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 12:05:07 PM »

i can see where i sounded like i was contradicting myself a bit.

i believe two things:

"how someone treats you is not a reflection of you" and

"hate is strong emotion."

as you know, people (not limited to pwBPD, but certainly as a hallmark of the disorder) split others into black and white. its a coping mechanism. it feels very personal, but it is more about her and how she copes than you or something you did or didnt do.

and at the same time, that indicates your significance. if she could cope, this wouldnt be necessary. we dont try to erase/remove/evict/provoke someone from our lives who means nothing to us.
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 12:07:42 PM »

Excerpt
Someone said before that I was just great at giving into her needs and that's why she stayed so long...

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I believe "love" for a pwBPD revolves around getting THEIR needs filled. You were able to put up with her abuse and nonsense for four years and fill her needs probably without asking for much in return. Did you ever put your foot down? Did you ever put up a boundary? Did you ever ask her to take care of something YOU needed? In my experience, the second you do any of those things is the second they decide to go looking for someone else to fill their needs. Because it is all about them.

Filling her needs, taking care of her, it really has nothing to do with you. It's not personal. That's why they can dump and move on so quickly. It's not about you. It's about a person (anyone above a certain minimal standard really) who can take care of their insatiable and unending needs without asking for anything in return.

So posing the question, "was I her greatest?" That's really not an accurate way to evaluate these types of relationships in my opinion. Were you able to withstand the abuse for the longest? Is a better question.

Another issue though here is you have to ask yourself: why do you care if you were her greatest? You were probably the kindest most giving person in the world when in this relationship and she still treated you like garbage and dumped you. She is illogical... .her opinion is in a constant state of flux... .she is emotionally infantile. Why does her opinion of you matter at all? It shouldn't. Her opinion of you is useless. Seek validation from within. You were the greatest you could be. And that's great enough. And who cares what you were in her mind. She's literally a crazy person. This is about you now.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 12:25:57 PM »

Did you ever put your foot down? Did you ever put up a boundary? Did you ever ask her to take care of something YOU needed? In my experience, the second you do any of those things is the second they decide to go looking for someone else to fill their needs. Because it is all about them.

I did put my foot down, and usually got either anger or tears as a result, or an argument... I didn't have many boundaries other than I couldn't help her with everything all of the time and that never seemed to be a major issue for her... I never had many needs either, so I rarely asked for anything from her, but when I did she seemed to be okay with giving it, however there were times when it felt one-sided and she didn't seem to do for me what I did for her... .

You were probably the kindest most giving person in the world when in this relationship and she still treated you like garbage and dumped you.

I was, I helped her with everything and was essentially her caretaker, but I also raged back at her if/when she raged at me... If she got impatient with me, I got pissed off back at her... Not always, but a lot of the time. If I handled things in a calm way she just seemed to disrespect me instead. This didn't usually work out very well, as any time I raised my voice she just raised hers louder and any time I got mad back at her, it just escalated things... Never once did she admit defeat when I would yell at her for some of the treatment.

And yes, she did dump me multiple times, but I also dumped her a few times as well.
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2017, 12:29:12 PM »

For a pwBPD, there may be no meaningful way to define "best" that would make sense for you or I.

Remember, feelings = facts. If she's feeling (right now!) good about you, then you are, always were, and always will be the best. If she's feeling (right now!) bad about you, then you are, always were, and always will be the worst. And that is true about all her exes. And probably will be true about her next guy. And the one after that.

Anyhow, her ability to evaluate a relationship's success or quality is pretty dubious. (I'm being generous here!) So what use to you is being defined as "best" by her standards?
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2017, 12:34:52 PM »

a lot of us struggle with the issue of boundaries. certainly, our relationships struggled with them.

as a guy that "put his foot down" plenty of times, it can actually be an example of poor boundaries, or boundaries that are too rigid.

boundaries are about where i end and you begin, not about changing or controlling another persons behavior. thats where a lot of us got tripped up. many of us struggle with "what if i had said yes or no more often or earlier".

what we are talking about really pertains to the "power struggle", a stage that every relationship (healthy and unhealthy) goes through. all good stuff to learn about and take to future, healthier relationships.

setting boundaries and setting limits: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

practical examples: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2017, 12:55:36 PM »

a lot of us struggle with the issue of boundaries. certainly, our relationships struggled with them.

as a guy that "put his foot down" plenty of times, it can actually be an example of poor boundaries, or boundaries that are too rigid.

boundaries are about where i end and you begin, not about changing or controlling another persons behavior. thats where a lot of us got tripped up. many of us struggle with "what if i had said yes or no more often or earlier".

what we are talking about really pertains to the "power struggle", a stage that every relationship (healthy and unhealthy) goes through. all good stuff to learn about and take to future, healthier relationships.

setting boundaries and setting limits: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

practical examples: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

Well, I can tell you this much... I usually put my foot down when she would get angry and told her I wasn't going to deal with it or accept it, but she usually turned this around on me and made it seem like I was being irrational for "not understanding her" or what she was going through, like I should have just accepted the anger...

If I got angry when she got angry, she just got more angry... If I walked away or tried to leave when she got angry, she started chasing after me begging me not to leave.

She would also apologize a lot when she did get irrational, and said she would stop, but as some time passed, it just kept happening again and again...
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2017, 01:09:38 PM »

it sounds like youre describing the same messy, immature stuff i went through. communication broke down on both sides, boundaries were either porous or rigid, and enmeshment made it difficult for either side to distinguish themselves. thats nothing to beat ourselves up for, only to learn and take to future relationships, and it helps to explore.

i learned a lot (and still do) from this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/characteristics-healthy-relationships

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FallenOne
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2017, 01:13:12 PM »

it sounds like youre describing the same messy, immature stuff i went through. communication broke down on both sides, boundaries were either porous or rigid, and enmeshment made it difficult for either side to distinguish themselves. thats nothing to beat ourselves up for, only to learn and take to future relationships, and it helps to explore.

i learned a lot (and still do) from this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/characteristics-healthy-relationships



Basically, if her boundaries were breached, it was a big deal... If mine were beached, and I voiced my concern, it was either met with some sort of argument or I was in the wrong or I didn't understand her... .always something like that.
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2017, 01:27:17 PM »

hey Matt.  You asked us, "was I her best".  We have similar stories, same time in the relationship.  Do you really need her validation? Or is this about you?

You were the best.  But you loved someone who at her best was "clumsy" with any emotion.  I have imagined that emotions and love to my BPD are like driving with one foot on the gas and one on the brake at all times. 

And you are the car.   And your inner mechanic is asking you, how the hell did this car even make it to the shop.   Your question is valid, and I've asked it myself. Take this time and work on yourself, you will find as I am that as you do, you have the answers.   

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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2017, 01:31:56 PM »

Basically, if her boundaries were breached, it was a big deal... If mine were beached, and I voiced my concern, it was either met with some sort of argument or I was in the wrong or I didn't understand her... .always something like that.

did you have a look at the links on boundaries? theyre pretty informative in that regard.

while we often think of pwBPD as "boundary busters", both partners tend to have a limited understanding of boundaries. it sounds like youre framing them more in terms of "rules".

youre basically saying she didnt play fair. not everyone will. its incumbent upon us to identify when our boundaries are breached, and act accordingly. voicing concern in some cases may be enough, with a trusted person who respects you and your boundaries. arguing about who is in the wrong and who did what and being dismissive of each others point of view is less about boundaries, more about conflict.

the practical examples link really lays out the distinction.
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2017, 03:07:51 PM »

You may have only lasted so long because your boundaries were so low.

You say it was nice to be wanted and needed - while this in itself *is* a nice feeling, it shouldn't be the sole focus of a relationship where you're taking care of the needs of the partner and yours aren't met. *Except* perhaps your needs were being met - your need to be needed and to be validated, and you get this validation by constantly being a source of supply (in whatever form they currently need - physical, sexual, emotional) for your partner.

Were they constantly there for you in the same way, or did you not care about yourself, you were happy to just care for and adore your partner? So many of us have been there too - "don't worry about me, I'm fine, I'll be ok, let me look after you."

If this is the case I'd suggest reading up on co-dependency disorder - they're perfect fits for those with NPD.
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2017, 03:15:54 PM »

I too was the longest. The only reason though is because I think I was the most compassionate and understanding and forgiving beyond what should ever be expected.  Dont really think it was anything on his part. I use to wonder that, now I realize that it was really me that made it last that long. Anyone who has a ounce of self respect for them self would run. I dont think he really views me as someone treasured from his past, i'm just that, another in a long list of his past. It shows in their actions after, if we were that special and unique than we would be worth even the tiniest bit of effort, to at least see remorse. I know people will say its the disorder, and yes, but they refuse to even show remorse to establish a friendship after.
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2017, 03:19:21 PM »

I was my exes longest relationship too (so far).
She would only come back if she had not found a new replacement so it's not really flattering now that I think about it whenever she returns. All it means is she hasn't found somebody new.
You can't really measure who is the best/worst without knowing what she values in a r/s... .
That is why it is so irrelevant to me. You'd be measuring based on your values, on your mind ... absolutely nothing like how she thinks!
You can be the most kindest, giving, fun, patient, intelligent person and yet that is not enough.
And I am pretty sure my replacement as well as some people before me are good loving people who may have been like me too. Everyone is unique and has value, it's really hard to measure yknow?
Even if you somehow did everything right, eventually they might get bored of you and cause some kind of drama to feel like their usual chaotic selves.
So how do you measure whether you were the greatest person they ever had?
It's all about how useful you are to be honest.
Once you don't serve whatever it is they need at the given time, you are nothing but trash to them. Until they need attention again.
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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2017, 03:40:58 PM »

Once you don't serve whatever it is they need at the given time, you are nothing but trash to them.

YES! It is soo sick!
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FallenOne
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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 06:47:02 PM »

Were they constantly there for you in the same way, or did you not care about yourself, you were happy to just care for and adore your partner? So many of us have been there too - "don't worry about me, I'm fine, I'll be ok, let me look after you."

She was almost constantly around... She was around me a lot when I wasn't working. I got care/attention from her but it always seemed like more of a reward than just being automatic, or it wasn't as important as her care or her needs. If she had an excuse or reason why she couldn't help me with something, I had to be okay with it or risk an argument... But if she needed something, It was like I was expected to drop what I was doing and attend to her needs. It didn't start out this way, but it turned into this after a while.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2017, 08:02:53 AM »

When they inevitably contact you again, have any of you ever lied to them and said that they have the wrong number, or pretended that you're a family member and say "so and so died a few months ago" or that you moved out of state, or even moved out of the country?

I know it seems wrong, but how would the borderline react to such a thing? What if you really convinced them?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2017, 10:20:11 AM »

Between my own experience and reading about others, I can't help but feel that the BPD people we were in relationships with "acted" a lot... So, how much of the relationship was just a show they were putting on for us? How much of the victimhood, the sympathy, the poor little old me, and the self pity was just an act worthy of an academy award?

This is especially notable at the beginning during the honeymoon phase...

Was any of her "woe is me" ___ authentic? Or was all of it just a manipulation tactic to get me to sympathize and feel sorry for her and her troubled past? Was it all just a way to get me to offer my help and services for all of her never ending problems?

The interesting thing about mine is she was actually studying psychology and theater in college... Isn't that ironic?

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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2017, 10:51:20 AM »

Mine was also studying psychology. She had a victim mentality towards her father - he was controlling etc towards her.

Met him a few months into the relationship and he was a really nice bloke, clearly loved her but had a stilted relationship with her.

Her 'save me from my bully of a father' routine worked wonders for my saviour, hero and white knight personality and I basically became the gentle, caring, understanding man she needed in her life. What a load of horsesh*t.

Her father gave her the usual boundaries when she was a teenager, hence he was a controlling bully and I came along and soothed and cared for her, so I was the idealised good guy.

But, I don't think it's an act with them - they truly believe what they say at the time, but they simply don't have the emotional maturity to see things from others' perspective and so can't form a balanced view of the world. You're either with them or against them.

And once they've moved on they need to paint you black to cover up the emotional destruction they've left behind and within themselves, plus you're now the bad guy for the next poor sap guy who takes them on to save her from.
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2017, 11:29:55 AM »

I second what Guysmiley said. I was going to say something similar, but he did a fine job
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« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2017, 11:36:09 AM »

That's interesting. She seemed to always be depressed and blaming myself and others for her problems. I did realize and pointed out to her that she was either causing these problems herself or blowing them out of proportion. I mean to worry about so many things you can't change or hold petty  grudges for decades is mind blowing.  She certainly had a victim mentality towards EVERYONE.  She did not have a close relationship with her father and her mom was really over protective of her.

 She wanted someone to basically do everything for her while she contributed nothing. As is if she was a big child.  I tried to be the knight in shining armor (which was dumb) and was overwhelmed by her never ending problems. None of my own problems mattered and I ended up damaging myself.
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« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2017, 11:39:22 AM »

Her 'save me from my bully of a father' routine worked wonders for my saviour, hero and white knight personality and I basically became the gentle, caring, understanding man she needed in her life. What a load of horsesh*t.

Her father gave her the usual boundaries when she was a teenager, hence he was a controlling bully and I came along and soothed and cared for her, so I was the idealised good guy.

You're either with them or against them.



Mine had a very similar relationship with her father... He was still in the picture. Her mom moved away to get married to some other guy when she was still a kid... Her dad is a good guy overall, but doesn't know jack about raising kids and just let them run the streets like animals...

But yes, most of the time, she made her dad seem like this horrible person to me... Even when he asked her to do things around his house that should have been expected of her for living there, she made it sound like he was some dictator and she was cinderella... .

Then when he did something for her, like let her use his vehicle or do a favor for her, she would make him sound like a great guy... It was this constant back and forth with her father... I can't tell if she likes him or hates him.

She has called the police on him before, moved into domestic abuse shelters because of him, and made him seem like an awful person when describing him to me. But whenever you met the guy in person, he didn't seem that bad...
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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2017, 11:51:29 AM »

Her father gave her the usual boundaries when she was a teenager, hence he was a controlling bully and I came along and soothed and cared for her, so I was the idealised good guy.

This stood out! When ex and I got together, his family was great.  He had a great childhood, blah, blah, blah. Over time as more of his stuff came out, his story changed to his mother was controlling. His childhood was horrible.

I had to live with his parents for 4 months. Yes, his mother can be nitpicking and controlling. She and I butted heads like nobody's business. The problem was that father in law was sick and I had three small kids. She and I were trying to protect all parties involved and ex was doing nothing to help us get out of their house. I don't know that I could have been nice in her shoes. She and I have since talked about it and we both agree that it was a recipe for disaster when you put two momma bears in the same house. Neither one of us thought it was a good idea for us to live there. Ex insisted on it because he couldn't stand the thought of being separated from me and the kids.

The point is that I stood up to her and saved him from his mom. Even as an adult, he has gotten jobs and been more worried about what his parents would think. Um, hello, you are an adult. Who gives a rat's patooty what your parents think? You should be worrying about whether or not you will be making enough money to support your family.

She and I have compared notes about ex and she has made remarks like, "I thought he would have outgrown some of that stuff."
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stimpy
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 209


« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2017, 01:42:40 PM »

But, I don't think it's an act with them - they truly believe what they say at the time, but they simply don't have the emotional maturity to see things from others' perspective and so can't form a balanced view of the world. You're either with them or against them.

I think this is spot on.

When mine was delivering the pity play - very very early on in our relationship, I think she genuinely believed it (as did I) and it formed a cornerstone of her life story. It defined how she saw herself, as a victim, as a survivor. I also think she saw herself as superior to the host of people she thought had let her down in her life (parents, exes, etc),  she definitely had narcissistic traits as well.

I suspect that relating these tales was a great way of pulling people she liked into her world and what she had always found when telling these tales, was that it generated wave upon wave of sympathy and good will from those around her. And even admiration from those around her at how she had got past these terrible set backs, to become the charming person she now portrayed herself as. And for me, that sympathy also keyed into elements of my personality linked to saving and being a white knight.

But of course, even if she believed it herself and it was not really an act, telling me and others about this, so early on in a relationship was indisputably a manipulation. A benign manipulation no doubt, not intended to harm, but still a manipulation. Why else bring up these sorry tales so early on?

Then, there is the question, were these tales a true reflection of what actually happened? And like others have noted, I would doubt that. Looking back, the one sided nature of the stories she told me, reveals black and white thinking, and also a failure of introspection, to look at herself and understand how her behaviour may have contributed to the nature of the poor relationships she had with her significant others and her parents.

And so that for me the lesson I must take forwards. To be wary of anyone playing the victim card, especially if it one of the first things they tell you about themselves. And to be more analytical in understanding what actually might have happened to this person and to look very careful at what they say, or you may get dragged into being the white knight, and even worse, later being portrayed to others one day in the future as another of her persecutors.

Mine also had a lot of interest in psychology, and knew all the buzz words to hurl in my direction when the time was right for her to paint me black.
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