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Author Topic: This just doesn't makes any sense - 1  (Read 7182 times)
FallenOne
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« on: January 14, 2017, 09:51:32 AM »

Four years together... I was her longest relationship. We had a few long periods of stability, but in the end it turned into a disaster. This was just over 3 weeks ago.

But since she stayed with me longer than anyone else, does that mean I was the best in her eyes?
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 10:59:29 AM »

i know what you mean, matt. i was my exes longest relationship at the time, and had the same question.

what does being the best in her eyes mean to you?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 11:06:32 AM »

i know what you mean, matt. i was my exes longest relationship at the time, and had the same question.

what does being the best in her eyes mean to you?

It would be nice to think that I meant (or still mean) something to her... .Even with the way it ended. It's hard to try and tell yourself that you were with someone for 4 years for nothing, or that it was never really love...

Something made them stay that long... What was it?
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 11:24:09 AM »

Something made them stay that long... What was it?

what made you stay that long? the answer may be the same, or similar, for her.

by the very nature of BPD, loved ones "mean" a great deal - even when split black. of course what "mean" means is complex, some of it sobering and painful, most of it specific to the person and the relationship.

for me personally: our near three years together certainly wasnt for nothing, though what it meant to me has evolved over the years. i think that we both loved each other to the extent that we could. i think a lot of that love (on both sides) was immature and based on need. that doesnt mean we didnt feel for each other intensely, or that it was all for naught. i believe all relationships have something to teach us, and there is growth to be found. for what its worth, my exes relationship after me lasted longer than we did. i dont use that as a measure of the quality of their relationship vs ours.

and of course thats from a detached perspective. right now youre focused on what you and this person mean and still mean to each other in a very personal sense, which is natural.

you know her better than we do. what do you think you meant to her then, and what do you think you mean to her now? what evidence are you using to guide it?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 11:39:02 AM »

what made you stay that long?

High compatibility and similar values... Drug-like intimacy... I enjoyed helping her through her struggles (through therapy mostly) and experiencing the ups and downs with her... It was nice to feel wanted AND needed. When you're dating an independent person, you just don't get that same feeling of being needed... .

you know her better than we do. what do you think you meant to her then, and what do you think you mean to her now? what evidence are you using to guide it?

I must have meant a lot to her for her to stay that long... Though, I felt more like her caretaker than her boyfriend a lot of the time, especially closer to the end. Someone said before that I was just great at giving into her needs and that's why she stayed so long...

I don't feel as if I mean anything to her now, considering that she threw me away like garbage right before Christmas and filed a restraining order...
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 11:46:28 AM »

When you're dating an independent person, you just don't get that same feeling of being needed... .

i can certainly relate. i found in my ex many qualities (in her and in the relationship) id never had. i equated them with love at the time. do you?

I don't feel as if I mean anything to her now, considering that she threw me away like garbage right before Christmas and filed a restraining order...

i would suggest that such lengths do indicate you "mean" a great deal, not necessarily in the way you want them to, but in a distorted, disordered way; its how she copes.

and on the flip side, though the actions may indicate your current significance, how she copes is not a reflection of you, but of her.

make sense?
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 11:57:34 AM »

and on the flip side, though the actions may indicate your current significance, how she copes is not a reflection of you, but of her.

make sense?

Not entirely... Can you simplify?
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 12:05:07 PM »

i can see where i sounded like i was contradicting myself a bit.

i believe two things:

"how someone treats you is not a reflection of you" and

"hate is strong emotion."

as you know, people (not limited to pwBPD, but certainly as a hallmark of the disorder) split others into black and white. its a coping mechanism. it feels very personal, but it is more about her and how she copes than you or something you did or didnt do.

and at the same time, that indicates your significance. if she could cope, this wouldnt be necessary. we dont try to erase/remove/evict/provoke someone from our lives who means nothing to us.
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 12:07:42 PM »

Excerpt
Someone said before that I was just great at giving into her needs and that's why she stayed so long...

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I believe "love" for a pwBPD revolves around getting THEIR needs filled. You were able to put up with her abuse and nonsense for four years and fill her needs probably without asking for much in return. Did you ever put your foot down? Did you ever put up a boundary? Did you ever ask her to take care of something YOU needed? In my experience, the second you do any of those things is the second they decide to go looking for someone else to fill their needs. Because it is all about them.

Filling her needs, taking care of her, it really has nothing to do with you. It's not personal. That's why they can dump and move on so quickly. It's not about you. It's about a person (anyone above a certain minimal standard really) who can take care of their insatiable and unending needs without asking for anything in return.

So posing the question, "was I her greatest?" That's really not an accurate way to evaluate these types of relationships in my opinion. Were you able to withstand the abuse for the longest? Is a better question.

Another issue though here is you have to ask yourself: why do you care if you were her greatest? You were probably the kindest most giving person in the world when in this relationship and she still treated you like garbage and dumped you. She is illogical... .her opinion is in a constant state of flux... .she is emotionally infantile. Why does her opinion of you matter at all? It shouldn't. Her opinion of you is useless. Seek validation from within. You were the greatest you could be. And that's great enough. And who cares what you were in her mind. She's literally a crazy person. This is about you now.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 12:25:57 PM »

Did you ever put your foot down? Did you ever put up a boundary? Did you ever ask her to take care of something YOU needed? In my experience, the second you do any of those things is the second they decide to go looking for someone else to fill their needs. Because it is all about them.

I did put my foot down, and usually got either anger or tears as a result, or an argument... I didn't have many boundaries other than I couldn't help her with everything all of the time and that never seemed to be a major issue for her... I never had many needs either, so I rarely asked for anything from her, but when I did she seemed to be okay with giving it, however there were times when it felt one-sided and she didn't seem to do for me what I did for her... .

You were probably the kindest most giving person in the world when in this relationship and she still treated you like garbage and dumped you.

I was, I helped her with everything and was essentially her caretaker, but I also raged back at her if/when she raged at me... If she got impatient with me, I got pissed off back at her... Not always, but a lot of the time. If I handled things in a calm way she just seemed to disrespect me instead. This didn't usually work out very well, as any time I raised my voice she just raised hers louder and any time I got mad back at her, it just escalated things... Never once did she admit defeat when I would yell at her for some of the treatment.

And yes, she did dump me multiple times, but I also dumped her a few times as well.
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2017, 12:29:12 PM »

For a pwBPD, there may be no meaningful way to define "best" that would make sense for you or I.

Remember, feelings = facts. If she's feeling (right now!) good about you, then you are, always were, and always will be the best. If she's feeling (right now!) bad about you, then you are, always were, and always will be the worst. And that is true about all her exes. And probably will be true about her next guy. And the one after that.

Anyhow, her ability to evaluate a relationship's success or quality is pretty dubious. (I'm being generous here!) So what use to you is being defined as "best" by her standards?
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2017, 12:34:52 PM »

a lot of us struggle with the issue of boundaries. certainly, our relationships struggled with them.

as a guy that "put his foot down" plenty of times, it can actually be an example of poor boundaries, or boundaries that are too rigid.

boundaries are about where i end and you begin, not about changing or controlling another persons behavior. thats where a lot of us got tripped up. many of us struggle with "what if i had said yes or no more often or earlier".

what we are talking about really pertains to the "power struggle", a stage that every relationship (healthy and unhealthy) goes through. all good stuff to learn about and take to future, healthier relationships.

setting boundaries and setting limits: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

practical examples: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368
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FallenOne
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2017, 12:55:36 PM »

a lot of us struggle with the issue of boundaries. certainly, our relationships struggled with them.

as a guy that "put his foot down" plenty of times, it can actually be an example of poor boundaries, or boundaries that are too rigid.

boundaries are about where i end and you begin, not about changing or controlling another persons behavior. thats where a lot of us got tripped up. many of us struggle with "what if i had said yes or no more often or earlier".

what we are talking about really pertains to the "power struggle", a stage that every relationship (healthy and unhealthy) goes through. all good stuff to learn about and take to future, healthier relationships.

setting boundaries and setting limits: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

practical examples: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

Well, I can tell you this much... I usually put my foot down when she would get angry and told her I wasn't going to deal with it or accept it, but she usually turned this around on me and made it seem like I was being irrational for "not understanding her" or what she was going through, like I should have just accepted the anger...

If I got angry when she got angry, she just got more angry... If I walked away or tried to leave when she got angry, she started chasing after me begging me not to leave.

She would also apologize a lot when she did get irrational, and said she would stop, but as some time passed, it just kept happening again and again...
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2017, 01:09:38 PM »

it sounds like youre describing the same messy, immature stuff i went through. communication broke down on both sides, boundaries were either porous or rigid, and enmeshment made it difficult for either side to distinguish themselves. thats nothing to beat ourselves up for, only to learn and take to future relationships, and it helps to explore.

i learned a lot (and still do) from this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/characteristics-healthy-relationships

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FallenOne
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2017, 01:13:12 PM »

it sounds like youre describing the same messy, immature stuff i went through. communication broke down on both sides, boundaries were either porous or rigid, and enmeshment made it difficult for either side to distinguish themselves. thats nothing to beat ourselves up for, only to learn and take to future relationships, and it helps to explore.

i learned a lot (and still do) from this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/characteristics-healthy-relationships



Basically, if her boundaries were breached, it was a big deal... If mine were beached, and I voiced my concern, it was either met with some sort of argument or I was in the wrong or I didn't understand her... .always something like that.
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2017, 01:27:17 PM »

hey Matt.  You asked us, "was I her best".  We have similar stories, same time in the relationship.  Do you really need her validation? Or is this about you?

You were the best.  But you loved someone who at her best was "clumsy" with any emotion.  I have imagined that emotions and love to my BPD are like driving with one foot on the gas and one on the brake at all times. 

And you are the car.   And your inner mechanic is asking you, how the hell did this car even make it to the shop.   Your question is valid, and I've asked it myself. Take this time and work on yourself, you will find as I am that as you do, you have the answers.   

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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2017, 01:31:56 PM »

Basically, if her boundaries were breached, it was a big deal... If mine were beached, and I voiced my concern, it was either met with some sort of argument or I was in the wrong or I didn't understand her... .always something like that.

did you have a look at the links on boundaries? theyre pretty informative in that regard.

while we often think of pwBPD as "boundary busters", both partners tend to have a limited understanding of boundaries. it sounds like youre framing them more in terms of "rules".

youre basically saying she didnt play fair. not everyone will. its incumbent upon us to identify when our boundaries are breached, and act accordingly. voicing concern in some cases may be enough, with a trusted person who respects you and your boundaries. arguing about who is in the wrong and who did what and being dismissive of each others point of view is less about boundaries, more about conflict.

the practical examples link really lays out the distinction.
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2017, 03:07:51 PM »

You may have only lasted so long because your boundaries were so low.

You say it was nice to be wanted and needed - while this in itself *is* a nice feeling, it shouldn't be the sole focus of a relationship where you're taking care of the needs of the partner and yours aren't met. *Except* perhaps your needs were being met - your need to be needed and to be validated, and you get this validation by constantly being a source of supply (in whatever form they currently need - physical, sexual, emotional) for your partner.

Were they constantly there for you in the same way, or did you not care about yourself, you were happy to just care for and adore your partner? So many of us have been there too - "don't worry about me, I'm fine, I'll be ok, let me look after you."

If this is the case I'd suggest reading up on co-dependency disorder - they're perfect fits for those with NPD.
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2017, 03:15:54 PM »

I too was the longest. The only reason though is because I think I was the most compassionate and understanding and forgiving beyond what should ever be expected.  Dont really think it was anything on his part. I use to wonder that, now I realize that it was really me that made it last that long. Anyone who has a ounce of self respect for them self would run. I dont think he really views me as someone treasured from his past, i'm just that, another in a long list of his past. It shows in their actions after, if we were that special and unique than we would be worth even the tiniest bit of effort, to at least see remorse. I know people will say its the disorder, and yes, but they refuse to even show remorse to establish a friendship after.
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2017, 03:19:21 PM »

I was my exes longest relationship too (so far).
She would only come back if she had not found a new replacement so it's not really flattering now that I think about it whenever she returns. All it means is she hasn't found somebody new.
You can't really measure who is the best/worst without knowing what she values in a r/s... .
That is why it is so irrelevant to me. You'd be measuring based on your values, on your mind ... absolutely nothing like how she thinks!
You can be the most kindest, giving, fun, patient, intelligent person and yet that is not enough.
And I am pretty sure my replacement as well as some people before me are good loving people who may have been like me too. Everyone is unique and has value, it's really hard to measure yknow?
Even if you somehow did everything right, eventually they might get bored of you and cause some kind of drama to feel like their usual chaotic selves.
So how do you measure whether you were the greatest person they ever had?
It's all about how useful you are to be honest.
Once you don't serve whatever it is they need at the given time, you are nothing but trash to them. Until they need attention again.
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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2017, 03:40:58 PM »

Once you don't serve whatever it is they need at the given time, you are nothing but trash to them.

YES! It is soo sick!
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FallenOne
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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 06:47:02 PM »

Were they constantly there for you in the same way, or did you not care about yourself, you were happy to just care for and adore your partner? So many of us have been there too - "don't worry about me, I'm fine, I'll be ok, let me look after you."

She was almost constantly around... She was around me a lot when I wasn't working. I got care/attention from her but it always seemed like more of a reward than just being automatic, or it wasn't as important as her care or her needs. If she had an excuse or reason why she couldn't help me with something, I had to be okay with it or risk an argument... But if she needed something, It was like I was expected to drop what I was doing and attend to her needs. It didn't start out this way, but it turned into this after a while.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2017, 08:02:53 AM »

When they inevitably contact you again, have any of you ever lied to them and said that they have the wrong number, or pretended that you're a family member and say "so and so died a few months ago" or that you moved out of state, or even moved out of the country?

I know it seems wrong, but how would the borderline react to such a thing? What if you really convinced them?
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FallenOne
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2017, 10:20:11 AM »

Between my own experience and reading about others, I can't help but feel that the BPD people we were in relationships with "acted" a lot... So, how much of the relationship was just a show they were putting on for us? How much of the victimhood, the sympathy, the poor little old me, and the self pity was just an act worthy of an academy award?

This is especially notable at the beginning during the honeymoon phase...

Was any of her "woe is me" ___ authentic? Or was all of it just a manipulation tactic to get me to sympathize and feel sorry for her and her troubled past? Was it all just a way to get me to offer my help and services for all of her never ending problems?

The interesting thing about mine is she was actually studying psychology and theater in college... Isn't that ironic?

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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2017, 10:51:20 AM »

Mine was also studying psychology. She had a victim mentality towards her father - he was controlling etc towards her.

Met him a few months into the relationship and he was a really nice bloke, clearly loved her but had a stilted relationship with her.

Her 'save me from my bully of a father' routine worked wonders for my saviour, hero and white knight personality and I basically became the gentle, caring, understanding man she needed in her life. What a load of horsesh*t.

Her father gave her the usual boundaries when she was a teenager, hence he was a controlling bully and I came along and soothed and cared for her, so I was the idealised good guy.

But, I don't think it's an act with them - they truly believe what they say at the time, but they simply don't have the emotional maturity to see things from others' perspective and so can't form a balanced view of the world. You're either with them or against them.

And once they've moved on they need to paint you black to cover up the emotional destruction they've left behind and within themselves, plus you're now the bad guy for the next poor sap guy who takes them on to save her from.
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2017, 11:29:55 AM »

I second what Guysmiley said. I was going to say something similar, but he did a fine job
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« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2017, 11:36:09 AM »

That's interesting. She seemed to always be depressed and blaming myself and others for her problems. I did realize and pointed out to her that she was either causing these problems herself or blowing them out of proportion. I mean to worry about so many things you can't change or hold petty  grudges for decades is mind blowing.  She certainly had a victim mentality towards EVERYONE.  She did not have a close relationship with her father and her mom was really over protective of her.

 She wanted someone to basically do everything for her while she contributed nothing. As is if she was a big child.  I tried to be the knight in shining armor (which was dumb) and was overwhelmed by her never ending problems. None of my own problems mattered and I ended up damaging myself.
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« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2017, 11:39:22 AM »

Her 'save me from my bully of a father' routine worked wonders for my saviour, hero and white knight personality and I basically became the gentle, caring, understanding man she needed in her life. What a load of horsesh*t.

Her father gave her the usual boundaries when she was a teenager, hence he was a controlling bully and I came along and soothed and cared for her, so I was the idealised good guy.

You're either with them or against them.



Mine had a very similar relationship with her father... He was still in the picture. Her mom moved away to get married to some other guy when she was still a kid... Her dad is a good guy overall, but doesn't know jack about raising kids and just let them run the streets like animals...

But yes, most of the time, she made her dad seem like this horrible person to me... Even when he asked her to do things around his house that should have been expected of her for living there, she made it sound like he was some dictator and she was cinderella... .

Then when he did something for her, like let her use his vehicle or do a favor for her, she would make him sound like a great guy... It was this constant back and forth with her father... I can't tell if she likes him or hates him.

She has called the police on him before, moved into domestic abuse shelters because of him, and made him seem like an awful person when describing him to me. But whenever you met the guy in person, he didn't seem that bad...
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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2017, 11:51:29 AM »

Her father gave her the usual boundaries when she was a teenager, hence he was a controlling bully and I came along and soothed and cared for her, so I was the idealised good guy.

This stood out! When ex and I got together, his family was great.  He had a great childhood, blah, blah, blah. Over time as more of his stuff came out, his story changed to his mother was controlling. His childhood was horrible.

I had to live with his parents for 4 months. Yes, his mother can be nitpicking and controlling. She and I butted heads like nobody's business. The problem was that father in law was sick and I had three small kids. She and I were trying to protect all parties involved and ex was doing nothing to help us get out of their house. I don't know that I could have been nice in her shoes. She and I have since talked about it and we both agree that it was a recipe for disaster when you put two momma bears in the same house. Neither one of us thought it was a good idea for us to live there. Ex insisted on it because he couldn't stand the thought of being separated from me and the kids.

The point is that I stood up to her and saved him from his mom. Even as an adult, he has gotten jobs and been more worried about what his parents would think. Um, hello, you are an adult. Who gives a rat's patooty what your parents think? You should be worrying about whether or not you will be making enough money to support your family.

She and I have compared notes about ex and she has made remarks like, "I thought he would have outgrown some of that stuff."
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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2017, 01:42:40 PM »

But, I don't think it's an act with them - they truly believe what they say at the time, but they simply don't have the emotional maturity to see things from others' perspective and so can't form a balanced view of the world. You're either with them or against them.

I think this is spot on.

When mine was delivering the pity play - very very early on in our relationship, I think she genuinely believed it (as did I) and it formed a cornerstone of her life story. It defined how she saw herself, as a victim, as a survivor. I also think she saw herself as superior to the host of people she thought had let her down in her life (parents, exes, etc),  she definitely had narcissistic traits as well.

I suspect that relating these tales was a great way of pulling people she liked into her world and what she had always found when telling these tales, was that it generated wave upon wave of sympathy and good will from those around her. And even admiration from those around her at how she had got past these terrible set backs, to become the charming person she now portrayed herself as. And for me, that sympathy also keyed into elements of my personality linked to saving and being a white knight.

But of course, even if she believed it herself and it was not really an act, telling me and others about this, so early on in a relationship was indisputably a manipulation. A benign manipulation no doubt, not intended to harm, but still a manipulation. Why else bring up these sorry tales so early on?

Then, there is the question, were these tales a true reflection of what actually happened? And like others have noted, I would doubt that. Looking back, the one sided nature of the stories she told me, reveals black and white thinking, and also a failure of introspection, to look at herself and understand how her behaviour may have contributed to the nature of the poor relationships she had with her significant others and her parents.

And so that for me the lesson I must take forwards. To be wary of anyone playing the victim card, especially if it one of the first things they tell you about themselves. And to be more analytical in understanding what actually might have happened to this person and to look very careful at what they say, or you may get dragged into being the white knight, and even worse, later being portrayed to others one day in the future as another of her persecutors.

Mine also had a lot of interest in psychology, and knew all the buzz words to hurl in my direction when the time was right for her to paint me black.
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« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2017, 01:59:07 PM »



But, I don't think it's an act with them - they truly believe what they say at the time, but they simply don't have the emotional maturity to see things from others' perspective and so can't form a balanced view of the world. You're either with them or against them.

And once they've moved on they need to paint you black to cover up the emotional destruction they've left behind and within themselves, plus you're now the bad guy for the next poor sap guy who takes them on to save her from.

Having lived through being the "non" of an active addict and the supposedly recovering addict before my dBPDex got the BPD diagnosis I feel that there seems to be a common thread of entitlement and lack of accountability or responsibility and anything/anyone that stands in the way of the addiction/fix/need/desire for immediate or instant gratification is bad. It became more clear upon the diagnosis and reading about BPD that it wasn't just drugs that were the issue - it was ANYTHING - sex, porn, attention, validation, money, a place, adoration,... .anyone that enabled (me included) the immediate need/desire was "good" anyone that got in the way of or didn't enable (also me) was "bad".

Also depending on who was present the need/desire was ever changing - if it was me then it was supposedly at times the calm stable family life, a bunch of 20 year old relapsing addicts then it was that lifestyle, coworkers it was different, bosses different again... .ever changing depending on what the other person seemed to value or how they operated in life.
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« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2017, 02:39:19 PM »

I suspect that relating these tales was a great way of pulling people she liked into her world and what she had always found when telling these tales, was that it generated wave upon wave of sympathy and good will from those around her. And even admiration from those around her at how she had got past these terrible set backs, to become the charming person she now portrayed herself as. And for me, that sympathy also keyed into elements of my personality linked to saving and being a white knight.

I think ex told whatever story he thought would get him the most attention. When we were dating, it was all about his achievements in boy scouts and foot ball. It was like he knew I wanted a good boy so those are the stories he told. Here it is 20 years later and he is still telling the same stories. It is like he is stuck in childhood. To this day, he will puff up his chest and pull out his master's thesis and show it off to people like that is somehow supposed to prove that he is great. He wants admiration. When people stopped admiring him, that is when he pulled out the woe is me card. That is when his family suddenly became horrible.

Excerpt
Then, there is the question, were these tales a true reflection of what actually happened?

I have often wondered that myself. Is ex really as good as he tried to portray himself to be? I know he has a penchant for exaggeration. If he gets cut off in traffic, he will tell it as "Wow, I almost got into an accident and it was horrible and, and, and." If he does something that he thinks is good, he will tell at as though he is so helpful and so wonderful.
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« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2017, 02:40:21 PM »

Can I ask what the motivation for doing this would be?
Or if there is a specific reaction you would expect or hope for?

If it were not for having a child together I would entirely end all possible means of communication for the rest of time with my dBPDex for my own sanity and personal well being.
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« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2017, 02:45:26 PM »

Can I ask what the motivation for doing this would be?
Or if there is a specific reaction you would expect or hope for?

If it were not for having a child together I would entirely end all possible means of communication for the rest of time with my dBPDex for my own sanity and personal well being.

Well, they did such a wonderful job at messing with us. Why not mess with them? But more importantly, because they know that you're ignoring them by not responding.
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« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2017, 02:46:09 PM »

It became more clear upon the diagnosis and reading about BPD that it wasn't just drugs that were the issue - it was ANYTHING - sex, porn, attention, validation, money, a place, adoration,... .anyone that enabled (me included) the immediate need/desire was "good" anyone that got in the way of or didn't enable (also me) was "bad".

YES! Ex had to have something that he could fixate on. He stopped looking at porn and instead focused on video games. It felt like there was something that he was fixated on at any given time. When he was heavily into playing music, he would fiend over gear. He would pick something out and obsess about it until he got what he wanted.

I can see how I blew up our relationship after 15 years. I can now take full responsibility for blowing things up. I blew things up because I saw how his addictions were impacting me and the kids. When I started asking for help and wanting more from him, things went down hill fast. I could have backed down and been nicer but I didn't. I pushed for things to change because I could no longer sit back and enable him. I think that is why he kept chasing other women. Those women enabled him because he presented himself to be the victim of a nagging wife.
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« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2017, 03:10:22 PM »

Well, they did such a wonderful job at messing with us. Why not mess with them?

why mess with them? the relationship (and messing with each other) has ended. heal and move on  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2017, 04:26:30 PM »

I understand the frustration of being manipulated and abused, but revenge won't make them realize their wrong doings, it will simply make them miserable and make you the villain. They don't think they made anything wrong and they think you did it all, so all you are doing in their mind is to be mean to them.

BPDs suffer a lot in a relationship, all you would be doing is making them suffer more and having yourself painted black even more.

What I have said in the last break ups with my exBPDef was something like this "I love you more then anything, then anyone ever, I'm so angry and frustrated that you can't work harder and try to work pass your issues so we can live well, I blame you for this, I would have done anything and I have tried everything in my power to make this work and you not only didn't do the same, but did power plays and sabotaged my efforts to make our relationship healthier. I don't hate you despite my current anger, I love you deeper then you may ever understand and I don't think I will ever forget you, I don't think you are just another one, you are very dear and special to me, I hope someday you get better and if you do I'm here for you"

I said something close to the in tears the first break up and I repeated thinks closer to it the other 2 times. First time she showed more compassion, next 2 times she had already painted me black too much.

You might even think I was too nice, but I vented my emotions and removed that weight of my back, it helps, don't be hateful or vengeful, don't be like them, don't be impulsive and act on your current emotions, look at the big picture, use colors and grey, not only black and white.
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« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2017, 05:02:07 PM »

I understand the frustration of being manipulated and abused, but revenge won't make them realize their wrong doings, it will simply make them miserable and make you the villain. They don't think they made anything wrong and they think you did it all, so all you are doing in their mind is to be mean to them.

BPDs suffer a lot in a relationship, all you would be doing is making them suffer more and having yourself painted black even more.

What I have said in the last break ups with my exBPDef was something like this "I love you more then anything, then anyone ever, I'm so angry and frustrated that you can't work harder and try to work pass your issues so we can live well, I blame you for this, I would have done anything and I have tried everything in my power to make this work and you not only didn't do the same, but did power plays and sabotaged my efforts to make our relationship healthier. I don't hate you despite my current anger, I love you deeper then you may ever understand and I don't think I will ever forget you, I don't think you are just another one, you are very dear and special to me, I hope someday you get better and if you do I'm here for you"

I said something close to the in tears the first break up and I repeated thinks closer to it the other 2 times. First time she showed more compassion, next 2 times she had already painted me black too much.

You might even think I was too nice, but I vented my emotions and removed that weight of my back, it helps, don't be hateful or vengeful, don't be like them, don't be impulsive and act on your current emotions, look at the big picture, use colors and grey, not only black and white.

I don't want revenge and I wouldn't do anything hurtful to her like that either, but I honestly don't have any sympathy for someone who doesn't feel compassion or remorse, or someone who is a pathological liar, cheater and who just ruins others lives and causes destruction everywhere they go.
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« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2017, 06:13:52 PM »

I understand the frustration of being manipulated and abused, but revenge won't make them realize their wrong doings, it will simply make them miserable and make you the villain. They don't think they made anything wrong and they think you did it all, so all you are doing in their mind is to be mean to them.

BPDs suffer a lot in a relationship, all you would be doing is making them suffer more and having yourself painted black even more.


I didn't see very much, if any suffering in my dBPDex... .unless of course by "suffering" one means running off to get high or get a different high from lying, cheating, sneaking around, porn, hookups, ego/c*ck strokes from anyone available, financial irresponsibility, stealing, etc. I saw escapism and self pity.

The ones I see suffering (undergoing pain, distress or hardship) are the family/friends impacted.
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« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2017, 06:39:58 PM »

I agree with the 2 posts above. I have zero sympathy for my ex based on how she treated me and her complete lack of empathy, ownership of her actions, lack of integrity, etc. Just a horrible person who is a professional victim
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« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2017, 09:07:51 PM »

They did'nt ask for BPD, but research has shown they do know right from wrong. They are not as delusional as the schizoid personality disorder, and have good memories. It's just that they come to different conclusions with their memories than us. People are expendable objects to these creatures. I still struggle with anger because I have been peeking on social media. She is engaged to a straight-up military man from a good family, who just gave her a diamond engagement ring. However, she , behind his back, is rotating 2 ex's, plus a new one. If I told this man what I know, he would'nt believe me. Her act is that good. My anger tells me this creature must be stopped somehow. My reason says, if I did find a way to make her stop hurting people, will the woman I thought she was, or could be, become real? Will revenge really put an end to the pain/ anger long-term? Al Bernstein wrote my favorite book called "Emotional Vampires." He said the only way for an emotional vampire to learn anything, is by repeatedly experiencing painful consequences to their actions. So, they can learn from experience if the experience brings pain, according to him.
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« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2017, 09:12:20 PM »

Well, they did such a wonderful job at messing with us. Why not mess with them?

I wouldn't, because I don't want to get up the next morning, look at myself in the mirror and see a man who would do that.

But you aren't me, and may not be in the same place I'm in right now. If you feel that messing with them will give you satisfaction, go ahead and give it a try. You will figure out whether it works for you or not.
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« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2017, 09:16:21 PM »

I wouldn't go to that lengths.

First, BPD's suffer tremendously. It's not a simple disorder. They are practically like children in how they react to situations.

Also if you're trying to 'win'. You're never going to. You're fighting against someone who is disordered. There is no winning. The only thing you'll be doing is putting yourself as low as they can be.

Not only that, but by playing into the game of tit-for-tat, you're placing yourself back into the cycle.
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« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2017, 09:42:53 AM »

I wouldn't do anything to mess with her and I wouldn't send any compasionate explanation, etc.

If you believe (as I now believe), these individuals have a mental disability, then it would be pretty unethical to make this person suffer further. Remember, their lives are already a mixed up struggle filled with a lot of drama and emotions we could never understand. The masquarade as be whole to survive, but aren't. They have either a mental illness or an at the very least a mental affliction that is at the root of their behavior.

So let's take ananology and think about how you'd handle it: Let's say you were involved with a person with Down Syndrome. everyday that person did things that where counterproductive to themselves and to you, who's trying to love them or to help them, etc. Would you one day want to mess with them because of your pain or frustration?

Again, I don't see much difference from pwBPD and the Down Syndromed individual. Sure you could contend it's all on a spectrum, but intentionally mssing with someone, when we have the mental capacity for empathy and ability of superior self control and regulation, is just plain mean spirited and unnecessary. Not to mention immature. Be bigger and not add to this person's pain. They have enough to deal with as it is.
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« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2017, 11:43:55 AM »

I wouldn't do anything to mess with her and I wouldn't send any compasionate explanation, etc.

If you believe (as I now believe), these individuals have a mental disability, then it would be pretty unethical to make this person suffer further. Remember, their lives are already a mixed up struggle filled with a lot of drama and emotions we could never understand. The masquarade as be whole to survive, but aren't. They have either a mental illness or an at the very least a mental affliction that is at the root of their behavior.

So let's take ananology and think about how you'd handle it: Let's say you were involved with a person with Down Syndrome. everyday that person did things that where counterproductive to themselves and to you, who's trying to love them or to help them, etc. Would you one day want to mess with them because of your pain or frustration?

Again, I don't see much difference from pwBPD and the Down Syndromed individual. Sure you could contend it's all on a spectrum, but intentionally mssing with someone, when we have the mental capacity for empathy and ability of superior self control and regulation, is just plain mean spirited and unnecessary. Not to mention immature. Be bigger and not add to this person's pain. They have enough to deal with as it is.

You're right, and I agree... But, would telling them I had died really cause them any pain though?
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« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2017, 01:25:05 PM »

Why is it such a long and difficult process to detach from a BPD ex partner? Even after a short time of one or two years, it seems most become hopelessly addicted to them...

It's strange because in a normal relationship, with a mentally stable person, if there's a breakup, it hurts but not nearly as bad and it's within your ability to cope with it.

So why do we not grieve from and yearn for normal relationships as much as we do from ones that were completely unhealthy for us such as the ones with a BPD?

Why do we crave what was only hurting us and making us miserable? But we only miss it when it's gone...
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« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2017, 01:48:37 PM »

I feel, and this is MY feeling, that is a very immature response. I would just ignore and not answer. If they called from a new number and I realized who it was, I would just hang up.

Anything else is "game playing" and who is it affecting? It's just playing games with an emotionally broken person.

You are not that far removed from you ex as some of us on this board. The longer you are removed the more you will understand. Most of us have gone through the stages of wanting to get them back, wanting to hurt them, but that's only because we ourselves are not yet detached.

I am actually at a place where I hope it is all working for my ex and I never hear from her again. My life is 1000x better not being subjected to her crap. I didn't enter a relationship with her to hurt her and removed I still wouldn't stoop to her level.

The way the BPD thinks can be irrational. Doing that will only re-inforce to her you are an a-hole because that is what she thinks in her disordered mind. Don't give her that pleasure.

Seriously.
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« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2017, 02:10:18 PM »

FallenOne, I understand that you are probably angry and upset. I would like to second + quote PW and Hlintheviking.

BPDs suffer a lot in a relationship, all you would be doing is making them suffer more and having yourself painted black even more.

Doing that will only re-inforce to her you are an a-hole because that is what she thinks in her disordered mind. Don't give her that pleasure.

Since the question is out there: It would mean - and this is my opinion - further hurt for you and further hurt for the ex, simple as that. It's an extension of the destructivity that characterized the r/s. I can't really tell anybody what to do... but I'm wondering, with good intention, are those things what you wish for? I believe in moving away from all the hurt, not reinforcing it. Hard as it may be at times.
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« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2017, 02:10:52 PM »

well... .there's "trauma bonding."  That is when you go through a lot of ups and downs with someone (even if they are the cause of the ups and downs) then the attachment we feel towards them is greater compared to an attachment that has little or no conflict.

Then there's the "Sunk-Cost Fallacy." If I've already put in so much emotional/time investment into a relationship, I might be more inclined to stick it out further because I don't want to "waste" all my previous investment.

Why do we crave what was only hurting us and making us miserable? But we only miss it when it's gone...

Because that which is causing us pain is also perceived as the most immediate means to alleviate us from this pain.  Sounds more or less like an addictive substance, no?
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« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2017, 02:35:54 PM »

i almost started to feel like a DAD after 7 years of marriage. it seemed like i raised a baby.

maybe the attachment comes from the fact we were always the greater caretaker. who knows?

now she is with some loser replacement, makes me almost wants to go and guide her in the right direction, again its more like dads role vs husband.

you deal with weird behavior for so long and it has its toll on you too.,... .mine was a lot of silent treatments, happy/sad behavior
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« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2017, 02:41:32 PM »

Why is it such a long and difficult process to detach from a BPD ex partner? Even after a short time of one or two years, it seems most become hopelessly addicted to them...

It's strange because in a normal relationship, with a mentally stable person, if there's a breakup, it hurts but not nearly as bad and it's within your ability to cope with it.

So why do we not grieve from and yearn for normal relationships as much as we do from ones that were completely unhealthy for us such as the ones with a BPD?

Why do we crave what was only hurting us and making us miserable? But we only miss it when it's gone...

Exactly what Schwing has already described. Trauma bonding.
There is also this thing in psychology called intermittent reinforcement.
Intermittent Reinforcement is when rules, rewards or personal boundaries are handed out or enforced inconsistently and occasionally. This usually encourages another person to keep pushing until they get what they want from you without changing their own behavior.
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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2017, 03:23:07 PM »

I would say in my case it was a combination of lots of things mentioned above... .

- intermittent reinforcement and a longing for how things were,
- mistaken beliefs about not being good enough and being able to fix it,
- FOG, especially fear of not finding someone better, and
- PTSD.

Someone above made a comment about being a Dad, not a husband. In my case, that was a little close to the truth as there was a 19 year age gap, but my BPDx always spoke about being looked after, how guys her age didn't "get" her, being a kept woman and someone taking care of her (which she often demanded when drunk or expected when sober). Perhaps I should have paid more attention to these comments.

It's so true they need a caretaker, but then they lose respect for you and you do become a father figure without romantic feelings. There's no winning with a BPD - they will always find a reason to fault you and you can never live up to their expectations. Nor can the next guy, which I must admit to finding as a relief.
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« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2017, 03:24:47 PM »

if she contacts you wanting you back and you dont want her back and make up some silly story the answer she is still getting from you is a no. It wouldn't make much of a difference. All she is looking is for is a yes. She would just look for another opportunity elsewhere, call up another ex or look for somebody else to meet her needs like you wasted her time. What if you don't get the reaction/response you want or expect? Again contact with her and responding would just end up disappointing either way. She'll throw you away again like trash and NC protects you from dealing with that pain again.
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« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2017, 05:30:54 PM »

I just thought saying something like that would guarantee she wouldn't try to contact me again.
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« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2017, 05:44:03 PM »

 Bullet: contents of text or email (click to insert in post) FallenOne

If you block her on everything that will make it near impossible for her to contact you again. Stay boring/grey rock.
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« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2017, 11:14:16 PM »

I agree with Curiously1. Become very uninteresting. Once you become uninteresting and stop responding, they will move on. If you don't give them attention ( doesn't matter if its positive or negative ) - often they will search for it somewhere else. Don't tell them your dead... .just play dead.

 It's time to work on you. Don't poke the person with issues. Blocking is not hard. I had to block my personal email, my work email, my phone, my facebook, other messenger apps.

 It takes just a couple of mins for each block. Oh look... .she emailed from another email address... .click block... .done... .

You will get to a point where you can let go. It took me a year to do so, and man... .I'm so thankful I made it - and you will get there too.
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« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2017, 08:21:33 AM »

When I was stupid enough to fall for all my exs bs she right away told me the most hideous lies I think I've ever heard. Her brother who I knew in our teen years molested her when she was young with his friend and also molested her older sister as well! Then she told me that her ex boyfriend raped her too. She then on other occasions told me she wasn't in contact with any of her exs and of course that ended up being a lie. They were all in her FB page. Then she told me she didn't like sex. It was overrated and just bodies clanking around. Then another time when we spoke she told me about this ex of hers who raped her again lies how good he was in bed and he was a "real man " the way he treated her body. And then out of the blue from a woman who claimed she didn't like sex she said to me "Oh well some of it was good"! Wtf? Yes so I do believe majority of them with us is an act. A great play in Broadway with our ex BPDs as the stars. The  only thing that changes are the actors. But it will always be the same play for them. And yes both of those accusations about her brother and ex  molesting her and raping her  were all LIES! Bravo.
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« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2017, 09:53:47 AM »

I believe and know now with my exBPD it's all basically lies. From watching videos of this sociopath on youtube, his perception of reality is that we are just fuel source for them (narcissistic trait individuals). They fell empty so they lie and cause drama to fill the void. His story is spot on with my ex, word of word. She got hold of me again, we had a talk. I asked her a question of how long she knew that she was the way she was. She told me it started after her daughter was born, that she knew she has this ability to control people. Knowing this we got back together 3 years after she was born and she never told me about this. She was just hoping she can use her powers to keep me around.
 
In the end they do like us but it's not love they don't know what it is, they know what love looks like from watching how people interact but they can't feel it. All they know is they need fuel to fill their void. When they find a good source they latch on to they break us, then they find a new source. Then when they think we are recovered they come back for the charm and the recycle.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2017, 10:35:05 AM »

Her brother who I knew in our teen years molested her when she was young with his friend and also molested her older sister as well! Then she told me that her ex boyfriend raped her too. She then on other occasions told me she wasn't in contact with any of her exs and of course that ended up being a lie.

I was also friends with my ex's brother during our teenage years (my ex is 8 years younger than me) and she and her older sister also claim that he molested both of them (which contributed to their mental health issues)... I have also wondered if mine lied about this? Why would she make it up? Her stories about it lacked consistency when the topic came up over time again, and it never quite added up...

The brother/father have denied it for years and claim she's imagining it and it never happened. I don't know if I'll ever know the real truth to this.

What's your opinion? Why would she lie about something like this and lose the respect of her family over it if it never happened?

And, if it never happened and it was a main contributor to her BPD, then how did she develop BPD just from neglectful parents?
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« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2017, 10:51:45 AM »

I don't think it's an "act". In that moment, they BELIEVE what they are doing. It is very real for them.

Thus is the crux of this disorder.

They do have moments of clarity (far and few between) where they might aknowledge they were doing something to get a reaction but overall this is who they are at their core.

True story: BPD runs wild in the theater community. If you read the tabloids take a look at some of the high-profile Hollywood Divorces right now. Angelina Jolie, Halle Berry, Drew Barrymore, Amber Heard. Very indicative and possible these women are BPD or possess multiple disorders. Look at their relationship histories and stories. Look at the volatile histories and breakup make up patterns.

The BPD often comes across as someone trying to "reinvent" themselves when in actuality it's that whole chameleon affect, the mirroring the current partner, etc. Many claim to be bi-sexual. I am not stating being bi-sexual makes someone BPD but it does give more options to connect with a new source.

More options=Supply.

Something to chew on.

 

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FallenOne
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« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2017, 11:07:48 AM »

I don't think it's an "act". In that moment, they BELIEVE what they are doing. It is very real for them.

Thus is the crux of this disorder.

They do have moments of clarity (far and few between) where they might aknowledge they were doing something to get a reaction but overall this is who they are at their core.

True story: BPD runs wild in the theater community. If you read the tabloids take a look at some of the high-profile Hollywood Divorces right now. Angelina Jolie, Halle Berry, Drew Barrymore, Amber Heard. Very indicative and possible these women are BPD or possess multiple disorders. Look at their relationship histories and stories. Look at the volatile histories and breakup make up patterns.

The BPD often comes across as someone trying to "reinvent" themselves when in actuality it's that whole chameleon affect, the mirroring the current partner, etc. Many claim to be bi-sexual. I am not stating being bi-sexual makes someone BPD but it does give more options to connect with a new source.

More options=Supply.

Something to chew on.

 




Keep in mind, those tabloids themselves are BPD... .How much truth do you think is in them? Geez, MOST Hollywood actors have multiple marriages and divorces that are splattered all over TV and newspapers... There's no way all of these people have BPD. I don't think the diagnosis should just be handed out like free candy.
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« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2017, 11:12:10 AM »

I agree with Curiously1. Become very uninteresting. Once you become uninteresting and stop responding, they will move on. If you don't give them attention ( doesn't matter if its positive or negative ) - often they will search for it somewhere else. Don't tell them your dead... .just play dead.

 It's time to work on you. Don't poke the person with issues. Blocking is not hard. I had to block my personal email, my work email, my phone, my facebook, other messenger apps.

 It takes just a couple of mins for each block. Oh look... .she emailed from another email address... .click block... .done... .

You will get to a point where you can let go. It took me a year to do so, and man... .I'm so thankful I made it - and you will get there too.


What if they run out of "sources" and they end up committing suicide?
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« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2017, 11:59:17 AM »

I was also friends with my ex's brother during our teenage years (my ex is 8 years younger than me) and she and her older sister also claim that he molested both of them (which contributed to their mental health issues)... I have also wondered if mine lied about this? Why would she make it up? Her stories about it lacked consistency when the topic came up over time again, and it never quite added up...

The brother/father have denied it for years and claim she's imagining it and it never happened. I don't know if I'll ever know the real truth to this.

What's your opinion? Why would she lie about something like this and lose the respect of her family over it if it never happened?

And, if it never happened and it was a main contributor to her BPD, then how did she develop BPD just from neglectful parents?
Matt my ex was my 1st girlfriend. We were friends for 2 years before becoming involved. Once my Mom found out she broke us up and told my ex I was dating someone else and threatened my ex . After that my ex flipped out and became what she is today. Now why do I beljve my ex lied about her brother? I found out that after we were broken up my ex and I snuck around and spoke in the phone . She would tell me lie after lie. I didn't find this out until she dumped me in Sept of 2015. The stories she told never made sense. To add to the facade of her brother and ex mooesting and raping her she un friended both her brother and from what I now know her on again off agin boyfriend. Well after she discarded me guess who's back in her FB pages friends list? Yep her brother and her in again off again recycle buddy re ex boyfriend. And from what I'm told thru a mutual friend she is a ** kissing her brother every chance she gets on FB. Totally different from the sh*t she handed me. Also after she told me all this lying sh*t she was begging me and I mean begging me to tell her I was still in love with her! Now this was when she was still trying to sucker me back into a relationship with her. The damsal in distress who needed to be saved. It was set up so I would save her and get back with her. That's why these awful lies were concocted. Sick and very sad!
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« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2017, 12:01:45 PM »

Quote from: Confused108 on January 17, 2017, 08:21:33 AM
Her brother who I knew in our teen years molested her when she was young with his friend and also molested her older sister as well! Then she told me that her ex boyfriend raped her too. She then on other occasions told me she wasn't in contact with any of her exs and of course that ended up being a lie.

Quote from Matt S

I was also friends with my ex's brother during our teenage years (my ex is 8 years younger than me) and she and her older sister also claim that he molested both of them (which contributed to their mental health issues)... I have also wondered if mine lied about this? Why would she make it up
?

My ex strongly hinted at this as well, said she was forced to share her brother's bed as he was disabled. She says her brother is dead now, so there's no way to tell if what she's saying is the truth or not.

Why would they make it up - to get attention/sympathy/be centre of attention/ and of course it gives them a "get out of jail free card" because they can use these experiences as a reason for their behaviours now.
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« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2017, 12:02:54 PM »

Also when my ex would push/ pull with me she had told me she didn't know how to love! So there ya go.  They don't know how to care about anyone. Just the next victim they are gonna use and abuse.
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« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2017, 09:50:53 PM »

Staff only

This thread has been locked due to reaching its post limit.  

The discussion is continued here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305602.0;all
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