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Author Topic: This just doesn't makes any sense - 4  (Read 4048 times)
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« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2017, 10:40:06 AM »


As far as knowing the truth? It is common for most of them to confabulate. Best example of this was in my college phyc class, they did a study with 4 year olds, wont go into long details, but they told an experience that the child had not experienced, after time, not only did the child (all the children in the study showed the same results) believe that they had experienced it, but added their own details to the story.

I only tell this to show that with these disorders, I think they keep telling themselves facts or events that did not happen, but after awhile i think they truly believe they did.
Its not only children and PDs that experience this. I watched a program where different people where interviewed and asked questions about their past. During the interview a false fact was added. At first the person denied any knowledge of it. On the second interview they vaguely remembered it. On the third interview they put their side of events over even though it had never happened.
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« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2017, 01:48:23 PM »

It is an excellent video that once removed suggests.  Understanding that BPD is on a spectrum. My uBPDw is definitely in the high functioning category.  are the examples on this video more to the left or low functioning?   
Also, this probably means nothing and certainly is not scientific but looking at the number of posts on this site under  the  relationship partner with BPD, the number of posts for Detaching with wounds is pretty close to the same as all the others combined.   Its a long road... .
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« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2017, 04:47:13 PM »

I've been reading about BPD so much and reading about other peoples experiences, that it's literally consumed my every thought for the past 5 weeks since she left me... And I think I've finally realized what destroyed this relationship...

So, where did I screw up? I overreacted to her overreactions! That's it. That's the key... Every time she got angry with me, I got angry back... And that's when the insults slipped out, and I said things I later regretted... If I had just stayed level-headed and didn't panic or let my emotions get the best of me in these situations, they wouldn't have escalated as badly as they did, and I wouldn't be single now with a d@mn restraining order on my head... This is MY fault... I'm the one who left her in the hospital. I'm the one who perpetuated her mental health issues by reacting poorly and not understanding how to deal with it. I'm the one who exposed her behavior to my replacement. I'm the one who called the police when she sent someone to my house to intimidate me. I never looked at this from her perspective!My lack of knowledge of BPD is the cause. If I had only understood sooner so much could have been avoided... From her perspective, I tried turning her friend against her (by exposing her) which probably just came across as controlling and manipulative to her, I abandoned her when she was having a breakdown, I called the police on her, I insulted her when she got angry with me... I feel like all of this is MY fault.

I posted a message on psychforums.com in the BPD section, explaining my story, trying to get a perspective from some people with BPD... .That was a bad idea... Most of the responses I got pointed the finger at me as being the one at fault. Maybe I deserve to be in the situation I'm in now. If I hadn't overreacted to her overreactions none of these things would have happened. Everything that I did that was negative in response to her overreactions and it just made this worse.
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« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2017, 05:18:57 PM »

My advice is again. Stop watching the people with BPD videos. They are master manipulators!people who keep saying they feel more deeply than nons... .ya. But it is for themselves! They are sick. Im not saying to be mean to the mentally disordered, but if you are recovering , stop feeling bad for them, its like being with an addict. And some of the disordered are that too. You go to alanon and those that stay will make the same crappy excuses for staying in an abusive relationship!
Take a step back and ask yourself, take the disorder out of the equation, are they nice people. If you say yes than you wouldnt be here! Yes they may have a nice trait or 2 but most are abusive... .stop making excuses. Yes it is a spectrium from high to low functioning. But again no one should question and second guess abuse.
Noone with any compassion would make an excuse for punching their partner in the face. Yet their are people justifing the mental abuse
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« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2017, 06:16:43 PM »

So, where did I screw up? I overreacted to her overreactions! That's it. That's the key... Every time she got angry with me, I got angry back... And that's when the insults slipped out, and I said things I later regretted... If I had just stayed level-headed and didn't panic or let my emotions get the best of me in these situations, they wouldn't have escalated as badly as they did, and I wouldn't be single now with a d@mn restraining order on my head... This is MY fault...

Hi Matt, WOW!  You are taking a lot on here and though some of it may be true, in many ways it is not a complete picture.

You overreacted?  In reality, you reacted to the situation you were in; confusing, changing, broken.  And you love your expwBPD?  These are not overreactions per se as much as reactions to the idea of wanting to make things right.  Sadly, making things right for a pwBPD involves you being to blame and trying to address their hidden feelings.  It is hard to really say that you are at fault for responding the way you did.

The fact is, she was responding to her own internal feelings which were being projected at you.  You felt you were in relationship and discussing the facts on the ground, but it is unlikely that this is what she was reacting to.  Our attempt to straighten out our r/s' is more about working with the invisible.

We have all said things we regret.  Even healthy marriages/relationships go through this, and they do not end because of it, and this is likely not the reason your r/s ended either.  This is part of the FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt)  We feel tied into fixing something that is not visible and we become confused and can't determine up and down nor right and wrong.

If your ex wanted to have a r/s with you, you would still be with her.  Chances are that she was having an alternate set of expectations that were unknown to you (and her) for which you could never have met (and no one but she can meet them). 

Can you relate to having arguments that were never about the topic being discussed?  That is because the topic is not the issue-at-hand, rather, the feelings that are involved which caused the argument to begin with.  How can you fix that? 
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« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2017, 06:19:57 PM »

Nope. Not going to let you throw this pity party... .not if I can help it.

There is nothing you could have done differently to make this work, Matt.

Had you never reacted to anything she would have eventually hated you for being a doormat. She would have left from boredom.

I was in this situation. I got that 2nd, 3rd, 13th chance.

By the end I didn't react to a damn thing. I was pretty much dead inside from being beat down emotionally for three years.  We were calmer but she was cheating on me behind my back. Still ended up leaving me.

This person treated you poorly Matt. That's the only way she can treat someone.  You are lonely. You want a girlfriend, a companion. You will find that.

She's not the one.

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« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2017, 06:47:12 PM »

My advice is again. Stop watching the people with BPD videos.

we heard you the first time  Being cool (click to insert in post)

its an important subject to you. i tend to agree with you as far as individuals posting on youtube. there is zero vetting. we could all start our own channels tomorrow. its important to qualify our resources and not use a person with the disorder as a proxy for our ex.

Back From the Edge was created by New York-Presbyterian Hospital and includes leading experts on the disorder - linehan, gunderson, kernberg, etc. The author is well recognized with over sixty major journalism awards.

You go to alanon and those that stay will make the same crappy excuses for staying in an abusive relationship!

why do you think that might be?
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« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2017, 06:47:52 PM »

I agree with this entire thread, I think the same way as the original poster even though I know I shouldn't.
IF ONLY I did this or that or didn't do this or that... .I want to believe I could have saved it but things have made me realise I couldn't.
ONLY SHE  could have but she was too far gone, there was no reasoning with her, no logic or rational thinking with her... .She destroyed it... Yes I said and did things out of pure frustration which I regret but why?
Because somewhere deep down I had had enough of being treated like a piece of sh... t.
I gave 100% she gave 5%.
I feel guilty even though I know I shouldn't. So where as my logic gone?
 
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« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2017, 07:03:19 PM »

Matt,
Just wanted to say I identify with the regret you are expressing here. Well, on one hand, it is a good trait to think back about how one could have handled things differently after a breakup. Personally, I've found it tough to do a steady, balanced, healthy post-mortem at times, because of a combination of being made the main problem from her, and a tendency to beat myself up about "mistakes" in general. Yeah, there definitely were things I could have handled better, especially if I had known what was going on. I did the best I could with what was at hand, and I'd wager you did too.
Now, yeah, it's great to keep it cool all the time and not let other people affect you, but no one is perfect, man. If you are close to a gf, family member, or friend, and you lash out at them, there's a good chance they might respond with anger/frustration as well. To make peace, likewise, you both would have to take your share of responsibility and apologize etc. I get what you mean though--if only you had understood, right? I think that means you feel compassion for her pain, but what about you? Isn't reacting to anger with anger a pretty common defense for most people?
I don't know if this is you, so don't lemme put my own issues in here if they don't fit, but it kind of occurred to me that for the, the dangerous combo was my ex's expectations of a perfect partner, and my own unreasonably high standards of myself. It makes it pretty easy to keep making myself the problem. If I keep trying to make sense of it, I will be stuck for a while. Don't get me wrong, I am not preaching, because I still do get stuck all the time! I have a lot of "what if's" going through my head.
Look, man, it's good to have empathy for her side of things. Having BPD is not easy. It's good to want to be a good man and be there for your girl and be understanding. Hold on to that good part for someone who meets you halfway. I know it's tough. Try to be objective about what things could be mistakes on your end if they do feel like they are, but don't let it be that harsh, critical voice. Instead, only allow the voice to help you heal, grow, and move towards positive things for yourself.  Keep the perspective that in something right for you, there is room to make some mistakes. Perhaps the biggest mistake to learn from here is taking too much on yourself.
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« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2017, 08:56:11 AM »

hi Matt,

dont beat yourself up. i think most of us did things we were not proud of, i know i did. you didnt know what you didnt know, and theres no reason to blame yourself for that.

looking at things from her perspective (and i would also suggest, from a third person, outsider perspective) has a lot of value in terms of doing the relationship postmortem in a balanced way and i commend you for having the strength to do so. owning your own behavior is responsible and mature. theres a lot to learn here. try not to internalize her perspective - it is her perspective.

what kind of relationship do you want in the future?

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« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2017, 09:57:27 AM »

I feel this way too sometimes Matt and she said many times that my reactions to her were the biggest problem. Yes I retaliated. I had never been with a partner who was so abusive before and I just didn't understand it. In the end it wouldn't had mattered. I was patient for months but the resentment built. The bottom line is that she treats her partners like complete s**t and she thinks it's ok and will never change. It is her "normal" and she will only blame and never own her part.
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« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2017, 11:30:53 AM »

NO NO NO!

I did the opposite my friend. I introverted and caved to avoid conflict. It made no difference. I was still devalued, replaced and discarded.

Fundamentally it is a question of them not you. There is a huge gaping hole in the center of the souls. They seek others to fill it. You gave her your full love and it wasn't enough the hole was still there. So she devalued, replaced and discarded you hoping that the next one would fill the hole.

There is next to nothing you could do. Any reaction would only be twisted into devaluation.
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« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2017, 12:23:26 PM »

Matt, this is an important step for you.

Yes, all of the items below are relationship killers. If you do this with your next partner, you will have problems. It's a huge step to see this. Congratulations. Now you can change things - you have a target. Developing greater emotional maturity will help.

  • I overreacted to her overreactions! That's it. That's the key... Every time she got angry with me, I got angry back... And that's when the insults slipped out, and I said things I later regretted... .

  • I never looked at this from her perspective!

  • I'm the one who left her in the hospital.

  • I'm the one who exposed her behavior to my replacement.

  • I'm the one who called the police when she sent someone to my house to intimidate me.

  • I tried turning her friend against her (by exposing her)

Respectfully, this thinking (quote below) seems like you are employing the emotional immaturity that used in the relationship, now, in the break up. Ideally we want to be more emotionally mature in he breakup than in the relationship - learn from the experience. That starts now, right?

A relationship is about two people. You find each other. You bond. You react to each other and the environment. When you "as a couple" can't resolve adversity, the relationship fails. You both failed this relationship.

This is MY fault... I'm the one who left... .I'm the one who perpetuated... .I'm the one who exposed... .I'm the one who called... .I never looked at... .My lack of knowledge... .If I had only... .I tried turning... . I abandoned... .I feel like all of this is MY fault.

You can split hairs about who contributed more to the failure. She certainly contributed a lot as she was on the high end of the spectrum of a "relationship" disorder - one of the highest levels we've seen here. Had you been 10% higher in EQ or even 20%, it probably would not have been enough to make it go. A person this affected needs an extremely resilient partner to make a go. There are people out there than can do it, but not very many.

It really important for you to see this big picture. Yes, you did some really destructive things that would blow up any relationship. Yes, she is a the high end of  the spectrum of a relationship disease. Yes, you two were a really poor match. You need look no further than the list of destructive things she has done to you and vice versa. A lot of bad stuff.

There may have been great passion and passion is very important for a couple. There were also very poor adversity resolutions skills and adversity resolutions skills are equally important for a couple.

Make sense?

I'm sure that is an really uncomfortable characterization, and it will be hard to put you hands on it, but try it on for a few days and see how it feels.

Relationships (all relationships) and like buckets. You put water in every time you do something good. You punch a small hole in every time you do something bad. If you cannot fix holes or punch more holes than water is added the bucket goes dry.

This is most likely what happened. The events of that last day was another hole in a bucket that was close to dry.

My point is that the relationship dried up for her in stages and over time. People with BPD are are hard to understand because they over express emotions and we tend to think the positive over-expression is true (large ladles of water) and the negative over expression is an aberration / it will go away (tiny holes in the bucket).  To her they are both as bi as she expressed.

I shared this the other day (above). Nothing you could have done in the last month would have mattered. There was a steady stream of destruction over a prolonged time period. Both of you couldn't bear it in the end. You dumped her in hospital thinking that was the best thing for you. She got a restraining order thinking that was the best thing for her.

You two couldn't resolve adversity.
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« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2017, 02:30:52 PM »


You overreacted?  In reality, you reacted to the situation you were in; confusing, changing, broken.

When she would overreact to something I did or said, I would usually (not always) get angry in return, which she would then escalate the situation/argument more. Her thoughts and opinions of things would change like flipping a light switch on and off...


And you love your expwBPD? 

I do, very much. I still have feelings for her even after all that has happened.


These are not overreactions per se as much as reactions to the idea of wanting to make things right.  Sadly, making things right for a pwBPD involves you being to blame and trying to address their hidden feelings.

I reacted to the situations the way I would have with anyone. I wasn't used to someone getting so angry with me until this relationship. And the anger never seemed justified for whatever had happened. It threw me into a panic... I already struggle with anxiety and panic. Any time I would make a mistake or say something I didn't mean, I would apologize and ALWAYS make up for it in some way... And the things I said/did were never THAT serious. I even found myself apologizing when I knew it wasn't my fault, just to calm the situation.

I also never felt like she told me her true feelings. She was not totally honest with me about her thoughts and feelings, and I feel like she hid them a lot...


Can you relate to having arguments that were never about the topic being discussed?  That is because the topic is not the issue-at-hand, rather, the feelings that are involved which caused the argument to begin with.  How can you fix that? 

Yes, and a lot of the time when we would discuss something small, it would take hours to talk through it, and I felt l like we were getting way off-topic sometimes to the point of pure frustration.
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« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2017, 02:36:37 PM »

Now that I think about it, most of our talks were about understanding her perspective, and I did understand her perspective a lot throughout the relationship. I think it was closer to the end that I didn't look at things from her perspective, because by then, she didn't communicate her thoughts and feelings to me very well at all. I feel like he never understood my perspective, and any attempts to try and get her to do so, were just consumed with frustration.
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« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2017, 02:41:32 PM »

My biggest question at this point in this thread is this...

Why were her overreactions not relationship killers but mine were?

Why is it that when she overreacted to something and got angry with me, in her mind it was always justified in some way?

But when I overreacted to her overreactions towards me, I was the "bad guy" and in the wrong? Why was this so one sided?

Here's a good example... One time, she was having an argument with her father which escalated, and I was plunged into the middle of it... Her father said something that hit a nerve with her, and she locked herself in her bedroom and was threatening to overdose on her medication... I panicked and called the police on both of them because the situation was getting out of control and I didn't know what to do.

When this situation was over, she was furious with me for calling the police and said that "I should have just tried to talk to her"... .
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« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2017, 02:47:59 PM »

My biggest question at this point in this thread is this...

Why were her overreactions not relationship killers but mine were?

Why is it that when she overreacted to something and got angry with me, in her mind it was always justified in some way?

But when I overreacted to her overreactions towards me, I was the "bad guy" and in the wrong? Why was this so one sided?

Here's a good example... One time, she was having an argument with her father which escalated, and I was plunged into the middle of it... Her father said something that hit a nerve with her, and she locked herself in her bedroom and was threatening to overdose on her medication... I panicked and called the police on both of them because the situation was getting out of control and I didn't know what to do.

When this situation was over, she was furious with me for calling the police and said that "I should have just tried to talk to her"... .

You did the right thing.
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« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2017, 02:52:42 PM »

Why were her overreactions not relationship killers but mine were?

You know that no one in this thread suggested this. It's silly Smiling (click to insert in post)

Why is it that when she overreacted to something and got angry with me, in her mind it was always justified in some way?

But when I overreacted to her overreactions towards me, I was the "bad guy" and in the wrong? Why was this so one sided?

Do you judge your emotional maturity using a person with severe hypersensitive BPD as the metric for what is normal? "I'm not as bad as her, so why did this relationship blow up?"

What is more harmful to a relationship? Breaking up with someone when they are in the hospital, or getting a restraining order after a breakup? They are both relationship killers.

You two couldn't resolve conflict. You felt perfectly justified doing what you did based on how you felt about the way she treated you. She felt exactly the same.

When she acted badly, was it ok for her to do this because she honestly felt you did something to deserve it? When you acted badly and felt it was honestly ok because of what she did, was it not destructive to the relationship, too?

See the point? It doesn't really matter who was worse, you guys fought hard and dirty.

Was she mostly the aggressor? I imagine she was very difficult.

I'm trying to answer the question you keep asking - what went wrong - why did she leave me?

You could also just look at this as she was the entire problem. Yes, you did questionable things but you had no choice. She should have seen that and respected it and you two should have been able to work it out. And you can flip it in a few days and blame yourself.  Or you can llok at the relationship dynamics overtimes and she that you two were not compatible.

You are at the juncture where you can chose the model on how to assess it all. You were  there. You know best.
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« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2017, 04:58:33 PM »

Skip,

What I meant was in her mind I was the bad guy for overreacting to her. I don't mean generally speaking.

It seems that any time I was frustrated with something that she did, or just frustrated with something in general, in her mind I was a bad person or it was as if I wasn't allowed to be angry...

There were many situations that we were in where I felt as if she could overreact or get as angry as she liked, and I had to accept it, but when I did the same thing, I was bad or in the wrong in HER eyes.

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« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2017, 05:00:16 PM »

Basically, it felt as if I never had good justification for being angry about anything, and she did. That's the impression I always got from her.

No matter what the situation, or what the argument, whether it was something she did or didn't do, or if I was even having a bad day or not... If I was mad I was bad...
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« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2017, 05:19:29 PM »

Matt, I just want to chime in again for additional perspective, in case it could help at all, because I feel for what you are working through here. I am stuck in a similar area as well.
Suffice it to say, I think the overall issue is it won't help any of us to blame our partner, but it also will not help to blame ourselves. Granted, a lot of us probably do have an opportunity here to work through some additional issues and heal towards a more positive r/l for us. Maybe we encountered a pwBPD to help us grow, maybe it was just circumstance. It was a uniquely challenging situation that many people seem to come to realize the greatest indicator of work to do on themselves was that they didn't exit sooner. Everyone has issues, and we all have more to learn all the time.
This isn't about her any more. I think I understand your question here :Why is it that when she overreacted to something and got angry with me, in her mind it was always justified in some way?

But when I overreacted to her overreactions towards me, I was the "bad guy" and in the wrong? Why was this so one sided?
And I think even though it wasn't stated explicitly here, it may have originated in you being blamed excessively in the r/l, so you continue to feel blamed? Sometimes, I feel invalidated on this board or by my therapist, because I am sensitive from my ex blaming me so much, and me blaming myself so much. I think mental health professionals just don't believe it will do you any good to say "it was all her fault" etc. I think we just want that because we are so imbalanced from feeling so responsible due to our ex's distortions and our own personalities. Now you are the focus, you, your life, and your path. Sure, some of your behaviors were not helpful for nurturing a r/l. Will you always exhibit these same behaviors with another person? No one can sure for sure, but if you are in a high conflict, high stress situation and you're not Clint Eastwood/Buddha/Mr. Perfect, you just might react like a lot of us here did (guilty!). Just saying, there's no shame, because maybe we are not going to be happy being this guy anyhow, if it's not us.
Granted, it doesn't hurt to make positive change where we can. Take time to heal and get an honest assessment of yourself as best you can, and make it positive, about you feeling good about yourself and moving forward. Sometimes I ask myself, yes, I want to grow more, for me. Do I want to be the man she wanted me to be to feel good about myself, or do I want to want to love myself more and attract someone who can love me for who I am (even if I do make mistakes sometimes)? This is all about me this time, because I'm worth it.
We all have advice here, but only you have the answers for yourself.
Personally, the biggest first step for me has been forgiving myself for my own flaws. I think that's the best way to make positive change.
Hey, just finished Human Magnet Syndrome by Ross Rosenberg. I'd recommend it if you haven't read it. Saw it recommended on this board.
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 409


« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2017, 09:49:45 AM »

Sometimes I think the nons take on way too much responsibility. if your pwBPD was consistently abusive, it wouldn't have mattered how you reacted in the end. Have you ever been so frustrated or acted as such in any other rs? I know I haven't.
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ACObound
**
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married
Posts: 61


« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2017, 10:13:43 AM »

I to feel I "overreacted to her overreactions" and feeling alot like some of the posts here.  I read these and hundreds of other posts on this sight.  I start to see some of the characteristics of my high functioning uBPDw in me.  Also, when I think back on "conversations" with my uBPD some of the themes or outcomes I sometimes think I'm the one with the illness even though I continue to see a t who says I am not.  Then I see posts where the pwBPD has manipulated a therapist,    any thoughts or ideas on how to cope with this feeling.?
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FallenOne
Formerly Matt.S
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 321


« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2017, 10:32:03 AM »

I to feel I "overreacted to her overreactions" and feeling alot like some of the posts here.  I read these and hundreds of other posts on this sight.  I start to see some of the characteristics of my high functioning uBPDw in me.  Also, when I think back on "conversations" with my uBPD some of the themes or outcomes I sometimes think I'm the one with the illness even though I continue to see a t who says I am not.  Then I see posts where the pwBPD has manipulated a therapist,    any thoughts or ideas on how to cope with this feeling.?

I too feel this... I can't explain it... I did not feel this way before this relationship, but after it's over I do? It doesn't make sense to me... I've never had this problem before.

The only thing I can come up with is that I was around my ex for so long that I just got habitually used to her traits and characteristics that some of them may have worn off on me too?

I don't know...
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Reforming
******
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 768



« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2017, 01:33:33 AM »

Staff only

This thread has been locked due to reaching its post limit. 

The discussion is continued here

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305606.0
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