Difficult turn in a 6 year relationship

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all,
this is just my second post, but over the years I've gotten a lot of comfort and solidarity just from reading y'alls. I'm hoping today to just air out my conflicted thoughts, and get a little validation/commiseration.

My partner has BP tendencies, and I'd say it seems like a quiet BPD (my brother has a more explosive type, so this has given me a point of comparison). I guess I judge myself because I feel like I should be able to handle this "easier" form of BP tendencies, but after 6 years together and 4 married, there continues to be an intensity and difficulty to our relationship that I can't seem to manage. It reminds me of being able to hear a distant waterfall when I'm on a hike - in the background, there's a dim roar reminding me constantly of a force that could easily overpower me.

Lately I feel extremely distraught. We're having more explosive moments, and it's gotten to the point where she's called me abusive and said that I need fix myself in therapy. While I agree that therapy would be great for me, our relationship looks to have come to a turn that many here have talked about - I'm starting to believe that I'm the sick one. My self esteem is tanking, as I can see that I'm mishandling the difficult moments and not doing anyone any good. But I'm simply tired, simply so worn down by the years of difficulty. I don't want to dig and dig and solve and acquiesce. I don't want to take it on the chin. I find myself walling off for protection, and I feel guilty about this all the time. I married her and promised to myself that I would always see her as this precious being, and it feels worse than I could ever imagine to find myself walling off.

After an argument and breakdown last night, I eventually got up around 11 AM. I went to the kitchen and turned on the radio, where some woman was saying "I wake up in the morning, and I feel in myself, all is well." How I long for that feeling.

[DesertDreamer]

Hi all,
this is just my second post, but over the years I've gotten a lot of comfort and solidarity just from reading y'alls. I'm hoping today to just air out my conflicted thoughts, and get a little validation/commiseration.

My partner has BP tendencies, and I'd say it seems like a quiet BPD (my brother has a more explosive type, so this has given me a point of comparison). I guess I judge myself because I feel like I should be able to handle this "easier" form of BP tendencies, but after 6 years together and 4 married, there continues to be an intensity and difficulty to our relationship that I can't seem to manage. It reminds me of being able to hear a distant waterfall when I'm on a hike - in the background, there's a dim roar reminding me constantly of a force that could easily overpower me.

Lately I feel extremely distraught. We're having more explosive moments, and it's gotten to the point where she's called me abusive and said that I need fix myself in therapy. While I agree that therapy would be great for me, our relationship looks to have come to a turn that many here have talked about - I'm starting to believe that I'm the sick one. My self esteem is tanking, as I can see that I'm mishandling the difficult moments and not doing anyone any good. But I'm simply tired, simply so worn down by the years of difficulty. I don't want to dig and dig and solve and acquiesce. I don't want to take it on the chin. I find myself walling off for protection, and I feel guilty about this all the time. I married her and promised to myself that I would always see her as this precious being, and it feels worse than I could ever imagine to find myself walling off.

After an argument and breakdown last night, I eventually got up around 11 AM. I went to the kitchen and turned on the radio, where some woman was saying "I wake up in the morning, and I feel in myself, all is well." How I long for that feeling.

[Pook075]

Lately I feel extremely distraught. We're having more explosive moments, and it's gotten to the point where she's called me abusive and said that I need fix myself in therapy. While I agree that therapy would be great for me, our relationship looks to have come to a turn that many here have talked about - I'm starting to believe that I'm the sick one. My self esteem is tanking, as I can see that I'm mishandling the difficult moments and not doing anyone any good. But I'm simply tired, simply so worn down by the years of difficulty. I don't want to dig and dig and solve and acquiesce. I don't want to take it on the chin. I find myself walling off for protection, and I feel guilty about this all the time. I married her and promised to myself that I would always see her as this precious being, and it feels worse than I could ever imagine to find myself walling off.

Hi Desert and welcome back!  I'm so sorry you're struggling and I'm glad this forum has provided some solace.

First, about quiet and traditional BPD- they're the exact same.  I was married to one type, our daughter was the other type, and they appeared completely different.  Yet they were exactly the same- one exploded, the other hid in shame.  Everything else was identical and when things got tough, the quiet BPD exploded as well.

Now, for your situation.  My ex-wife (quiet BPD) called me abusive as well.  I was not abusive, and it's easy for me to say that today.  But in the moment, I wasn't so sure.  Why?  Because there was so much drama in my home, so much dysfunction and toxic energy, that none of us were at our best.  In a nutshell, I was mentally ill from constantly being on edge and stressed out.

Like you, I backed off and let my wife/kid do whatever they wanted.  My morals and boundaries went out the window, I stopped standing up for things that mattered.  In short, I just gave up and it broke me internally.  I was a mere shell of the man I used to be.

What changed?  I placed my mental health first.  I stopped settling.  I stopped letting people walk over me.  I made healthy boundaries, I stopped arguing, and most importantly I stopped enabling.

Your wife may be mentally ill, we don't know.  For now though, you need to prioritize your own mental health and stop being caught at the center of your wife's drama.  Walk away if necessary and refuse to get drawn into yet another circular argument.  Set clear boundaries- you'll talk about x, y, and z, but other stuff is off the table.  You won't yell or be yelled at.  You won't blame either.  These are steps to get you back on the right track mentally.

That feels like a good start, but please feel free to ask away with questions as we wait for others to chime in.

[PeteWitsend]

I wonder how often when we hear a person has "quiet BPD" the reality is it's just regular BPD, but the non-disordered partner has simply given up or allows way more than is healthy & if they exercised any sort of reasonable boundaries and started asserting themselves, they'd find that their "quiet BPD" significant other actually has quite "loud BPD."

[Rowdy]

I wonder how often when we hear a person has "quiet BPD" the reality is it's just regular BPD, but the non-disordered partner has simply given up or allows way more than is healthy & if they exercised any sort of reasonable boundaries and started asserting themselves, they'd find that their "quiet BPD" significant other actually has quite "loud BPD."

How are we defining quiet bpd?
I think it was a video by dr Ramani that I watched recently that explained many people get this concept of ‘quiet’ or ‘covert’ borderline a bit mixed up. Quiet and covert bpd being the same thing, she explained that far from meaning a person with covert bpd are less aggressive, not as loud or reactive, it simply means they are a borderline that hasn’t been discovered yet, as in ‘covert’ or under cover (something along those lines, I know it sounds like it amounts to the same thing but the way it was explained made more sense)

I think a lot of people get the idea from the fact bpd is a spectrum, and everyone is unique so each individuals behaviour traits vary. Those on the lower end of the spectrum are therefore mistaken as a quiet borderline, because their traits don’t scream and shout about their personality disorder.

[PeteWitsend]

How are we defining quiet bpd?
I think it was a video by dr Ramani that I watched recently that explained many people get this concept of ‘quiet’ or ‘covert’ borderline a bit mixed up. Quiet and covert bpd being the same thing, she explained that far from meaning a person with covert bpd are less aggressive, not as loud or reactive, it simply means they are a borderline that hasn’t been discovered yet, as in ‘covert’ or under cover (something along those lines, I know it sounds like it amounts to the same thing but the way it was explained made more sense)

I think a lot of people get the idea from the fact bpd is a spectrum, and everyone is unique so each individuals behaviour traits vary. Those on the lower end of the spectrum are therefore mistaken as a quiet borderline, because their traits don’t scream and shout about their personality disorder.

I got divorced approximately 2 & 1/2 years after I discovered BPD.  People online suggested it after I shared details of my then-wife's behavior.  I remember going back and reading that thread a few years later and being surprised by how I defended my then-wife, as a "good mom" with just a couple problems I hoped we could eventually work through.  I was largely blind to how awful things were, and how abnormal & emotionally and verbally abusive her behavior was. 

For whatever reason, some of us have a blind spot sometimes to this sort of thing.  Maybe it's weak boundaries, maybe it's a need to please others, maybe it's undue optimism or some combination of those or other traits that causes us to want to see the best in our partners or family members. 

[Rowdy]

Same here Pete. Never knew what BPD was, but after people online suggesting she was a narcissist I stumbled upon it and realised the bpd traits fitted my wife’s behaviour more. I guess this fits the description of quiet or covert better in regards to what Dr Ramani was talking about.

Your last paragraph is probably true in most cases for a partner of pwBPD to feel like that. Especially the last part, of course we all want to see the best in our partners and family. I think if we are honest with ourselves many of us probably had friends and family that will have seen their behaviour for what it was and warned us, or told us they could see it after we had been discarded. 

[DesertDreamer]

Like you, I backed off and let my wife/kid do whatever they wanted.  My morals and boundaries went out the window, I stopped standing up for things that mattered.  In short, I just gave up and it broke me internally.  I was a mere shell of the man I used to be.

What changed?  I placed my mental health first.  I stopped settling.  I stopped letting people walk over me.  I made healthy boundaries, I stopped arguing, and most importantly I stopped enabling.

Your wife may be mentally ill, we don't know.  For now though, you need to prioritize your own mental health and stop being caught at the center of your wife's drama.  Walk away if necessary and refuse to get drawn into yet another circular argument.  Set clear boundaries- you'll talk about x, y, and z, but other stuff is off the table.  You won't yell or be yelled at.  You won't blame either.  These are steps to get you back on the right track mentally.

Hi, and thank you all for your engagement. I've reflected a bit on what people have said about differentiating between what I called "quiet BPD" and just BPD. I can see that I'm using the term to downplay my situation. From reading here and knowing other pwBPD, I guess I think that my partner's behaviors are not as rough as others, and that I should be able to handle it. But despite all that, I'm deeply questioning if I really can in the long run. When it's good, it's good, and then something happens and I return to this forum in a haze, grasping for understanding, until I forget again.

Something that's coming up for me in these considerations is a feeling that's probably familiar to y'all: immense guilt. How can I consider ending the relationship when I'm sure she'll use it as evidence that she's unloveable? I feel so guilty imagining causing her this deep pain, but I also feel like I'm not living true to my own values when I stay in a relationship that I don't feel emotionally capable of and that I feel quite distant from. How do you handle being in this place of inner conflict? How do I deal with this guilt? I have recently started attending indivudal therapy, and I'm hopeful about having a space to air some difficult thoughts, but as always, I really appreciate the life experiences of people in this group.

[Pook075]

Hi, and thank you all for your engagement. I've reflected a bit on what people have said about differentiating between what I called "quiet BPD" and just BPD. I can see that I'm using the term to downplay my situation. From reading here and knowing other pwBPD, I guess I think that my partner's behaviors are not as rough as others, and that I should be able to handle it. But despite all that, I'm deeply questioning if I really can in the long run. When it's good, it's good, and then something happens and I return to this forum in a haze, grasping for understanding, until I forget again.

Something that's coming up for me in these considerations is a feeling that's probably familiar to y'all: immense guilt. How can I consider ending the relationship when I'm sure she'll use it as evidence that she's unloveable? I feel so guilty imagining causing her this deep pain, but I also feel like I'm not living true to my own values when I stay in a relationship that I don't feel emotionally capable of and that I feel quite distant from. How do you handle being in this place of inner conflict? How do I deal with this guilt? I have recently started attending indivudal therapy, and I'm hopeful about having a space to air some difficult thoughts, but as always, I really appreciate the life experiences of people in this group.

Do you have a best friend from childhood?  Or maybe from your college years?  This would be a person you could go 20 years without seeing, then suddenly spot them in a grocery store and you'll talk for hours like a moment hasn't passed between you.

Hopefully one person comes to mind, because that's what a relationship with a BPD person SHOULD be like.  They need to feel like no matter what happens, this person is in my corner and they'll do anything to protect me and make me feel better.

With your partner, it doesn't feel anything like that at the moment...at least for her.  And in some ways, it's not directly her fault either.  She freaks out, which has you freaked out about what she's going to say next, so you walk around with your guard up like she's the enemy. 

This happens subconsciously and we don't even realize we're doing it.

So if you can past the current dysfunction and just get back to just loving her, having her back, etc then it goes a very long way to change the narratives within her mind.  That's what all of us are trying to do with our BPD loved ones and most of us fail...simply because we can't get out of our own way.

I've done this with my BPD daughter and BPD ex; they both know I love them and would do anything for them.  And that doesn't sound major or anything, but to a person who's terrified of rejection and abandonment, making them feel that way is everything.  If they trust you and know you have their back, all of the other stuff disappears.

And I mean EVERYTHING.  All the dysfunction comes from doubting the relationship or if you really care.  That's the mental illness part of all of this and what destroys relationships.

So there is hope, but it requires a change in communication from both of you.  I just wanted you to know that you're not helpless or hopeless, there is a different path.

[DesertDreamer]

If they trust you and know you have their back, all of the other stuff disappears.

And I mean EVERYTHING.  All the dysfunction comes from doubting the relationship or if you really care.  That's the mental illness part of all of this and what destroys relationships.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and what's worked for you. I've been thinking about what you wrote, and I guess I feel some resistance to it. If it were up to some changes in my communication to make things better, wouldn't that mean that the illness is somewhat in my control? It doesn't appear that way for me. I think I'm trying to get clear on what's really within the realm of possibility, and what I can really offer in a relationship with a pwBPD, and I feel like I'm at a turning point. I feel so exhausted, my desire and intimacy with my partner has really eroded, and I dream about being alone. My partner is also my best friend, and I feel horrible about the idea of ending the relationship, for both of our sakes. But it hardly seems fair to me or to her to continue when I don't really feel willing or able.

[Pook075]

Thanks for sharing your ideas and what's worked for you. I've been thinking about what you wrote, and I guess I feel some resistance to it. If it were up to some changes in my communication to make things better, wouldn't that mean that the illness is somewhat in my control? It doesn't appear that way for me. I think I'm trying to get clear on what's really within the realm of possibility, and what I can really offer in a relationship with a pwBPD, and I feel like I'm at a turning point. I feel so exhausted, my desire and intimacy with my partner has really eroded, and I dream about being alone. My partner is also my best friend, and I feel horrible about the idea of ending the relationship, for both of our sakes. But it hardly seems fair to me or to her to continue when I don't really feel willing or able.

Sure, let's talk this out in terms you can easily understand.

Let's pretend you have an insane fear of spiders.  You see one and your reaction is so extreme, there's a chance you have a heart attack.

So if you see a spider, you're getting out of there no matter what it takes.  Maybe you knock down old ladies or kids...it doesn't matter.  Your only mindset is to escape for self preservation.  What a spider is in your midst, it's 100% about survival and nothing else.

That's sort of how BPD is as well.  I've talked this out for hundreds of hours with my BPD daughter and when something goes wrong, she second guesses everything in her head and literally goes down the rabbit hole. 

The "problem" could be me not holding a door for her.  Maybe I didn't even see her coming, or maybe I had 6 bags of groceries in my arms.  Whatever.  But that one slight makes her question why it happened...was it an accident or was I trying to be mean?  Before long, she's thinking about something similar that happened yesterday, and last week, and that thing from 5 years ago.  Her mind is putting these pieces together throughout the day in an illogical way. 

This happened and that happened, so that means this is connected to that and proves this other thing...it's all mumbo jumbo.  The name for it is "disordered thinking" because that's exactly what happens.

Maybe that night, my kid explodes at me over something completely different, and I'm thinking, "What the heck is that about?  Why are we arguing over me not petting her dog?"  But it's not the dog, it's the 50 other things she's built up in her mind to prove that I can't stand her and I'm only around to harm her. 

They're all a jumbled mess of thoughts, mind you, and they can't be articulated (because they don't make sense).  But they are real thoughts and they send a borderline spiraling.

So when my kid makes a comment about me not holding a door, I intentionally apologize and explain that I had a hand full of groceries and I didn't even see her coming.  Sometimes I'd even add that I love you and I'd never do anything to hurt you.

Once that's said, once she gets affirmation that my actions were genuine, all the chaos disappears...because she's not worried that her daddy doesn't love her anymore.  That's ultimately where all of this comes from, an irrational fear that consumes every part of their life.  Once we get past that though, then we're just two people again and everything is normal.

If I had discovered this maybe 3 years earlier and what was happening with my BPD ex wife, we easily could have saved the marriage by just communicating a different way when my wife was disordered.

There is a real hope and it comes through a different style of communication.  But at the same time, I did choose to stop fighting for my marriage so I understand the cost of staying.  In my case, there was adultery by my ex and so many lies to everyone in our life, I just couldn't come back from it.  I just wanted you to see the other side of this clearly and I hope that helps.

[Me88]

So when my kid makes a comment about me not holding a door, I intentionally apologize and explain that I had a hand full of groceries and I didn't even see her coming.  Sometimes I'd even add that I love you and I'd never do anything to hurt you.

Once that's said, once she gets affirmation that my actions were genuine, all the chaos disappears...because she's not worried that her daddy doesn't love her anymore.  That's ultimately where all of this comes from, an irrational fear that consumes every part of their life.  Once we get past that though, then we're just two people again and everything is normal.

It sounds like your kid is a bit more regulated than most. I've tried this and it backfired entirely. An example, I drive a moderately lifted SUV. I opened the door for her every time, and almost every time I would give her a little boost into her seat. This time I was holding our to go boxes from lunch, couldn't boost her. That turned into me being mad at her, thoughts of me pulling back and not caring, etc. I tried to explain that it was nothing like that, I simply had my hands full. I used to always reassure her saying I loved her and would never do anything to intentionally hurt her. That was my go to reasoning a lot of the time. But no, I got ignored, silent treatment, then an hours long verbal lashing at home that night. My ex had absolutely zero abilities to regulate. Anything I said was apparently avoiding my issues, lacking accountability and being abusive. Justifying my 'mistreatment' of her. I would have been able to stay with her forever if simple reassurances and other doable things would have worked. I'm assuming the addition of adhd/anxiety/depressions/meds for all of those, plus excessive use of THC edibles impacted her brain as well.

[Pook075]

It sounds like your kid is a bit more regulated than most. I've tried this and it backfired entirely. An example, I drive a moderately lifted SUV. I opened the door for her every time, and almost every time I would give her a little boost into her seat. This time I was holding our to go boxes from lunch, couldn't boost her. That turned into me being mad at her, thoughts of me pulling back and not caring, etc. I tried to explain that it was nothing like that, I simply had my hands full. I used to always reassure her saying I loved her and would never do anything to intentionally hurt her. That was my go to reasoning a lot of the time. But no, I got ignored, silent treatment, then an hours long verbal lashing at home that night. My ex had absolutely zero abilities to regulate. Anything I said was apparently avoiding my issues, lacking accountability and being abusive. Justifying my 'mistreatment' of her. I would have been able to stay with her forever if simple reassurances and other doable things would have worked. I'm assuming the addition of adhd/anxiety/depressions/meds for all of those, plus excessive use of THC edibles impacted her brain as well.

My kid did take mental health seriously and went through a pretty hands-on DBT treatment for about a year.  So it certainly played a factor as well and I don't want to minimize that.

In terms of severity though, she's the worst I've ever seen the way she flies off the handle and resorts to violence.  When her mood shifts in that direction, she's like a pit bull how she locks in and loses all fear of consequences.  In those rare circumstances, nobody is calming her down and it scares me.  That anger is never pointed in my direction anymore, which is great, but I'm still fearful that the wrong person will cross her someday.

There were two instances in particular that I don't feel comfortable sharing here.  They were that bad.  One was when her sister was getting bullied at school- my older BPD kid made the bully (who was twice her size) cry and run away in terror.  The second was much worse than that.

[CC43]

It sounds like your kid is a bit more regulated than most. I've tried this and it backfired entirely. An example, I drive a moderately lifted SUV. I opened the door for her every time, and almost every time I would give her a little boost into her seat. This time I was holding our to go boxes from lunch, couldn't boost her. That turned into me being mad at her, thoughts of me pulling back and not caring, etc. I tried to explain that it was nothing like that . . . But no, I got ignored, silent treatment, then an hours long verbal lashing at home that night.

Hi there,

I'm sorry that the constant reassurances don't seem to work with your loved one.  It sounds to me like she's excessively dysregulated, and she can't hear anything you have to say.  Even if she listens, her brain is going to interpret your meaning the wrong way when she's like that--she'll probably find that you're being argumentative and invalidating.  That's why you'll see on these boards a recommendation not to JADE--justify, argue, defend or explain.  Her emotions are overpowering, they have hijacked her brain in that moment.

Anyway, when your wife is accusing you of being mad at her, and generally not supporting her enough, it may be a projection of her own anger and resentment.  On the other hand, it's very possible that she's just trying to pick a fight, so she can unleash her pent up anger onto you.  My guess is she's looking for "evidence" of ill treatment, even if there was none intended.  You see, she wants to bolster her narrative of being victimized, mistreated and disliked, to keep her identity of unfortunate/unloved/abused(?) woman intact.  She might experiment with new evidence on a daily basis--accusing you of not helping her in the car, not paying attention to her, pulling away, whatever.  Deep down she probably knows she's being unreasonable--she'll stonewall you whenever you try to defend yourself, and probably give you the silent treatment for a while--but eventually her feelings become overpowering, compelling her to air her grievances, and maybe get a false confession or concession out of you in the process.  After a time of not getting attention from you because of her self-imposed silent treatment, she decides to make a scene, to unleash her anger and reclaim your attention.  Throwing a fit is perversely working for her, even if it seems to make both of you miserable.

The pwBPD in my life would similarly "manufacture" grievances out of seemingly nothing.  One example was accusing a beloved aunt of mistreating her and being condescending.  Why?  Because the aunt offered her niece some water!  The next day, the niece "tested out" this grievance with a nasty text:  How dare you treat me like a baby!  Like I couldn't get water all by myself!  But the more she ruminated about the water, the more dysregulated she became, and she ultimately threatened violence, as well as cut her aunt completely out of her life (an amped-up version of the silent treatment you describe).  But since I knew what else was going on in her life, I understood that the water incident had nothing to do with water, and everything to do with an unrelated disappointment.  The day after her visit with her aunt, the pwBPD in my life found out she didn't get the career break that she wanted.  She felt incapable, desperate, unable to cope as an adult should.  And she took out all her anger on her poor aunt, with the "trigger" being treated like a "baby."  This was all just projection of her own obsession and ill thoughts about being "stuck" living like a teenager and not getting what she wanted.  Maybe it was equal parts projection and deflection.  Anyway, this negative and distorted thinking pattern, combined with a compulsion to let out misplaced anger, and the general maladaptive means of coping with stress and disappointments is very typical of BPD in my experience.  My strong opinion is that daily marijuana exacerbates the situation.

Anyway, you mentioned quiet BPD.  I understood that people with "quiet" BPD tend to blame themselves most of the time.  Their anger tends to directed more inward than outward.  I think the pwBPD in my life fits the petulant BPD subtype, characterized by high irritability, intense mood swings, high demandingness/neediness, lots of anger and misplaced blame, and passive-aggressive behaviors.

Hope that perspective with lived experience helps.