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Author Topic: BPD wife lasted 3 weeks. Best course of action?  (Read 1384 times)
Husband321
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« on: March 23, 2017, 11:05:43 AM »

Been seeing a woman for a year.  She is 31.  I am 40.

I was her soulmate etc.   helped her through many things including a custody battle.  She kept pushing for engagement.  Marriage.  Living together. 

In the past at times she would go cold.  Go back to her ex (for the kids) which would last 2 days. 

I looked past this.  She is attractive.  Loving.  Wealthy.  And I got sucked in.

We married 3 weeks ago.  I sensed a change.  She just became rude.  Distant.  Nagging.  Condescending etc.

So we bickered for a couple of day.  Sunday night we made up and were looking for a new home together.  A month earlier she got a tatto "property of" with my name on her ass.

I got to work Monday and she is texting me she is planting a garden at our house etc.   I get home and she is gone.  Took all her stuff.  Put it in a storage garage.  Got a hotel

I try to reason with her and she just says "I don't want to be married".  Next day she goes to hair salon for 6 hours,shopping for clothes etc.  like nothing happened

Now she is wanting to divorce, get her own place, but be my gf.  My fwb.  Just have sex. And just called today and told me something like "I want to see you but if there are nights I can't don't get mad.  I need to start my own life.  But I am also addicted to you so let's ween ourselves off each other.  This week she is apparently looking for. A new home. 

Should I see her just for sex and think she might change her mind?  Ignore her?  Best course of action?
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 12:25:58 PM »

Hi Husband321,

Welcome

I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily, I'm sorry that you're going through this. I can see how that would feel like an emotional roller coaster when your pwBPD wants to get married then does a 180. That's tough.

Excerpt
I looked past this.  She is attractive.  Loving.  Wealthy.  And I got sucked in.

A r/s with a pwBPD is very intense at the very beginning and it can't move fast enough, many of us ignored the red flags at the onset of the r/s, including myself.

Excerpt
Should I see her just for sex and think she might change her mind?  Ignore her?  Best course of action?

You're married, she's entitled to half of what you have right, but she wants to be fwb? We can't tell you what to do, we can support you in your decision, what do you want to do?
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"Let go or be dragged" -Zen proverb
abraxus
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 12:30:58 PM »

My take on this?

The biggest clue is the tattoo she got. Women's actions speak volumes, and she clearly stated that she wanted to be your property, and chances are that she meant that in the most literal way. My guess is that either before or after your marriage you got a bit complacent, which caused her to question your commitment.

Reasoning with her will do nothing. Clearly she still wants you, but I'll bet that this is a test, either conscious or otherwise. I'll go further and say that she probably wants something even more than being fwb, and weaning yourselves off each other.

If I were a gambling man I'd bet that deep down (or possibly more overtly), she wants you to say "no", that fwb is not acceptable to you. She wants you to tell her that she's "your property" and no-one else's.

To me this looks like a cry for reassurance; reassurance that she belongs to you, and that you wont settle for less. So, if you concede to what she's asking, she'll take it as you not wanting the same level of commitment that she does.
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Husband321
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 12:36:56 PM »

My take on this?

The biggest clue is the tattoo she got. Women's actions speak volumes, and she clearly stated that she wanted to be your property, and chances are that she meant that in the most literal way. My guess is that either before or after your marriage you got a bit complacent, which caused her to question your commitment.

Reasoning with her will do nothing. Clearly she still wants you, but I'll bet that this is a test, either conscious or otherwise. I'll go further and say that she probably wants something even more than being fwb, and weaning yourselves off each other.

If I were a gambling man I'd bet that deep down (or possibly more overtly), she wants you to say "no", that fwb is not acceptable to you. She wants you to tell her that she's "your property" and no-one else's.

To me this looks like a cry for reassurance; reassurance that she belongs to you, and that you wont settle for less. So, if you concede to what she's asking, she'll take it as you not wanting the same level of commitment that she does.

Interesting.

As soon as I kind of agreed to fwb she was kind of like "so then what would be ? That's it?"

But for the past 3 days me telling her I love her.  Wanted to be with her forever.  Explaining.  Got me nowhere.   She just became more entrenched in her position of "I need my own space". Asking her to come back etc.

It's like she won't "want me" until I am gone.   Then she will do anything to be with me.  When I am always trying to reason , it's just "no.  It's over.  Goodbye"

I also did bring up the tattoo and she said as soon as we are divorced she is having t removed

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abraxus
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 01:16:02 PM »

I know this sounds counter intuitive, but stop telling her that you love her. She knows that, it's not what she wants, she wants you to own her.

Reasoning and explaining will get you nowhere, it simply doesn't work. You can use reason and logic as much as you like, and it won't make any difference. Equally though, you could talk to her in Chinese, and use the right body language and take the right actions, and she'll be all over you.

Of course she gets more entrenched, because all you're doing is telling her what your feelings are, without doing anything about them. In other words, you're telling her what you feel, and yet asking her to take the action. You're basically opening yourself and giving her all the power, and the tools to use it.

Tell her that if she needs her own space then she can have it, but that it means she has it entirely. Tell her that doesn't work for you, that you want her "all or nothing", and that she's either yours or not, and you flat out don't want to share her, and won't do it.

I know, it seems risky, as it always seems easier to try to hold onto a piece, rather than risk losing all. However, the minute you go down that road, you quickly find that piece gets smaller and smaller.
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Husband321
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 01:33:16 PM »

I know this sounds counter intuitive, but stop telling her that you love her. She knows that, it's not what she wants, she wants you to own her.

Reasoning and explaining will get you nowhere, it simply doesn't work. You can use reason and logic as much as you like, and it won't make any difference. Equally though, you could talk to her in Chinese, and use the right body language and take the right actions, and she'll be all over you.

Of course she gets more entrenched, because all you're doing is telling her what your feelings are, without doing anything about them. In other words, you're telling her what you feel, and yet asking her to take the action. You're basically opening yourself and giving her all the power, and the tools to use it.

Tell her that if she needs her own space then she can have it, but that it means she has it entirely. Tell her that doesn't work for you, that you want her "all or nothing", and that she's either yours or not, and you flat out don't want to share her, and won't do it.

I know, it seems risky, as it always seems easier to try to hold onto a piece, rather than risk losing all. However, the minute you go down that road, you quickly find that piece gets smaller and smaller.

So more or less an all or nothing ultimatum? If you get your own place it's over?  I want you to be all
Mine and nothing else?
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abraxus
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 01:58:02 PM »

I wouldn't express it as an ultimatum, as an all out confrontational approach usually results in irrational defensiveness. Besides, ultimatums are weak, and you need to present strength.

Instead I'd try to approach it in a more understanding way, that acknowledges her feelings, and gives a sense that you're on the same team.

May be something like: ":)o you know what, when you got that tattoo, it really pleased me, because it summed up just the way I feel about you. You're mine and you belong to me. That's how I felt then, and that's how I feel now. I get that you may feel differently now, and I respect that, but I don't. It would therefore be weak and dishonest of me to pretend that I want anything less than all of you, so I simply can't do it".

You can probably word it better than that, but you get the drift.

Essentially, it's not giving her an ultimatum, which she can fight, it's a giving her a choice. You're not telling her what to do, you're telling her what you want from your life, and she can either choose to be onboard or not.
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Husband321
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2017, 07:44:24 AM »

I wouldn't express it as an ultimatum, as an all out confrontational approach usually results in irrational defensiveness. Besides, ultimatums are weak, and you need to present strength.

Instead I'd try to approach it in a more understanding way, that acknowledges her feelings, and gives a sense that you're on the same team.

May be something like: ":)o you know what, when you got that tattoo, it really pleased me, because it summed up just the way I feel about you. You're mine and you belong to me. That's how I felt then, and that's how I feel now. I get that you may feel differently now, and I respect that, but I don't. It would therefore be weak and dishonest of me to pretend that I want anything less than all of you, so I simply can't do it".

You can probably word it better than that, but you get the drift.

Essentially, it's not giving her an ultimatum, which she can fight, it's a giving her a choice. You're not telling her what to do, you're telling her what you want from your life, and she can either choose to be onboard or not.

Well She came over last night.   I basically told her the above, and she said "ok I understand.  I am sad we won't see each other again"

She ended up spending the night and we were intimate.

This morning I told her I want her to stay the weekend.  She was still saying she needs to find a house.  It won't work etc.   until I was ready to go to work, then she said she will stay the weekend, but is making no promises as to if we will be together. 

Does this seem like good progress?  Next move?

Also her day yesterday again consisted of shopping and going to the spa.  Seems odd for someone living out of a hotel?

When I talked about the tattoo she said she is messed up.  She wants to be submissive, and that is her dream, but also some things trigger her and she needs to control.
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 09:46:00 AM »

It seems very good progress, as at least you weren't arguing, and she stayed the weekend.

Don't be taken in by her calmly accepting what you said. She's agreeing with you in order to see how you'll act. Unfortunately you slipped a bit by asking her to stay, as you'd started to get the power, but then handed it back to her. No big deal though.

For now, don't push her about being together. Stand your ground by appearing to accept that she wants to split and you want all or nothing, but don't discuss it unless she brings it up.

I assumed from the tattoo that she wanted to be submissive, but for that to work it means you have to be dominant. That doesn't mean you have to be bossy and controlling, just that you're firm and assertive, in a calm and controlled way.

It's very natural that at times she'll feel she needs control. To be submissive can mean feeling very vulnerable at times. At those times her fears of abandonment will kick in more strongly. So, it's not her fighting you, it's just protecting herself. However, she will also try to test your dominance by trying to take control, as it's your strength that makes her feel safe. You'll have to tread carefully, as you need to stand firm, but reassure her that you're there for her.

That's for later though. Everyone has a different idea of what being submissive means to them, so I would suggest when things are calm, and she's opening up to you, ask her what it means to her to be submissive. Ask her what she imagines such a dynamic would look like.

At that point you have to decide if it's something you want and are able to do. You need to be certain, as it's clearly something she needs, and you need to be sure you can give it to her, as sometimes those needs can be extreme. You need to understand fully, so that you can take charge in the way that she wants, without being overbearing or abusive.

Bear in mind, she will fight you along the way. Not to be mean, but to test you, to see if you can handle her and remain calmly in control. You've taken a good first step, by standing your ground and saying that fwb doesn't work for you, and that you want all of her or nothing. She may try to challenge or resist that, but ignore what she says, as deep down she'll respect you for that, as it shows you're a man who knows what he wants and won't settle for anything else.

Respect is key in such a dynamic. She needs to feel she can look up to you for guidance, whilst feeling safe and cared for in doing so. She wants you tell her what to do, but in a measured way, so never get angry or raise your voice, always appear calm and 100% in control of your emotions. It's mental and emotional strength that conveys dominance, not physical.

I would also suggest that if you are intimate with her again, then take the opportunity to be a bit more dominant in bed. Take it slow at first and see how she responds. Take the lead, and be a little less gentle, without being rough, and be guided by her responses. Maybe start with words, and tell her how she's yours and that you own her, and she how she reacts. My advice would be not to ask her what she wants, as that will make her feel like the one in control, which is the opposite of what she wants. However, don't force anything either, just take things slowly and move forwards if she responds positively, and back off if she seems not to. However, don't be apologetic for anything, remain calm an in control, and go with the flow, but go slow and be guided by her reactions.

It seems that she cares for you, and wants to be with you, and has been honest enough with you to open up to you about her needs. Perhaps her submissive desires are her reason for suggesting fwb, as she wants you as well as having these needs met, and so believes that she has to get them met elsewhere. It may have been hard for her to admit that to you, so show that you appreciate her openness, and let her know that perhaps those needs could be met within your relationship.

Please note, that all of this pretty generic, as I don't know you or your wife, and can only go on what you've told me. You know her better and how she'll respond. When you're discussing things with her, never try to push things when she's being angry or negative, just remain calm, and stand firm in your position. Only try to make progress and move forwards when she's being friendly and responsive. Don't ask anything of her, just tell her what you want, and allow her to choose to give it to you. Mostly though just be sure of yourself and what you what, but in a firm, nice guy kind of way, and not in a bossy and demanding way.

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Husband321
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2017, 10:01:55 AM »

I would say what has happened since we married is her perhaps feeling "smothered" and more agitated.   The mistake I made was to argue this and kee showing her how she is changing, is not nice etc.

The advice you gave seems to have worked.  She just texted that she is so happy to stay the weekend with me. 

I need to adopt this mindset more, where it is me in control instead of asking.  That seems to work.  When I said. "I want you to stay" she agreed.  When I said "can you stay?" It was a no. 

She has went through great lengths to be with me in the past.  Which involved a lot of driving.  Sacrifice.  Time.  Etc.  I think just being more firm yet controlled is the best idea.  As when we got into shouting matches I feel it deeply wounds her.

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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2017, 10:56:40 AM »

I'm pleased to hear that things seem to moving in the right direction for you.

It's hard not to come across as smothering when someone appears angry and upset, and you care about them, but of course that just makes things worse. Often they just need to be left alone to deal with their own feelings, and you need to be able to not take it personally and not let it affect your emotions.

The best advice I can give is that when you're having a good moment, and are talking about things, tell her that when she feels angry or agitated, you'll leave her be. Tell her that you'll be there if she needs you, but you're happy to leave her to herself and come to you when she feels better. The key is to let her know that you're not going to abandon her when she's down, but won't smother her either, but that you're not psychic and she needs to tell you what she needs.

You also have to be rock solid with your emotions. You know you have feelings, she knows you have feelings, but try not to show them, and never discuss them. She wants you to be the man and manage her feelings, and doesn't want to feel responsible for yours. Always try to appear happy, calm and in control, no matter what she throws at you, as she's more likely to get angry and upset if you show or express them.

Deep down she wants to please you and make you happy, and when you're unhappy she'll feel bad about that. She can't process that properly, and so will likely get angry, but often that anger is with herself, which is why the shouting matches wound her. She's may seem angry at you, but she's also upset at hurting you. In many ways she wants to make you happy, she just finds it easier and less stressful when you tell her how, instead of her having to try and figure it out.

Never tell her that she's changing or not being nice, as she wont understand that, and it shows that you're allowing her to affect your emotions. If she seems to change then take it on board and see if there's anything you've done. People rarely act in a vacuum, and so their behaviour is often a reaction to external stimuli, either you or something else, so try to take note and adjust, as you've already seen how small positive changes can bring about positive results.

That's not to say you give her a free pass, quite the opposite. If she clearly does something wrong or disrespectful, then calmly but firmly point it out. Don't be angry, just say that you're not pleased with what she's done. She has more or less told you that she needs boundaries, and wants you to set them, and you can see that when you do she responds to them and feels happy. Basically she's just a bit lost, confused and indecisive, and so when you take the lead and guide her she feels more comfortable, relaxed and safe. Choices mean decisions for her, which she struggles with, and so when you say what you want, instead of asking her to decide, it's so much easier.
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Husband321
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2017, 11:56:04 AM »

One other issue that is hard for me to tackle is her defensiveness. 

2 example.  Everything seems fine.  She asks me where a certain document is.   I get it for her.  10 minutes later I walk by and ask "hey babe are yoj done with this" as I was headed towards the office.  She snaps. "I was going to put it back ok?"


Later I suggest we sell something on let go.  Her reply "well obviously I had a lot more important things going on"

Sometimes this type of defensiveness is constant.  When she is in a good mood all is wonderful. 

I point out how she is talking to me, then it just escalates.  That was actually the conversation that led her to running away.  "See.  Everyday you have a problem with me ". However I feel she goes out of her way to push and push and test, which of course leads to a problem


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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2017, 12:47:41 PM »

Ok, well I'll tell you what I think, and how I'd handle it, and you can see what you think.

It's not so much defensiveness, but over sensitivity. So, try to let go of minor things. When you ask her if she's done with the documents, see she'll it as you being fussy and picky, or implying that she can't do things herself, when you're just trying to be organised and efficient. In some ways, asking if she done with it, will be read by her as "aren't you done with that yet", and so she'll get defensive.

Basically, if you say something that could potentially be taken in either a positive or negative light, then assume she'll interpret it as the latter. In the scheme of things such things like putting the document away aren't important, so just let it go.

Think about it this way,if you're in an irritable mood, and someone asks you if you're done with something, then at least in some ways it will get to you. Just remember that it will get to her more deeply and more often. Best thing to do is try and be chilled out and relaxed about things. Forget het BPD, and just think of her as a woman. She's going to feel much happier and more relaxed around someone who's calm and easy going about seemingly little things.

As for selling stuff, well it's much the same as before. Don't suggest, just tell her you're going to sell some stuff. Suggesting sounds passive and tentative, and implies that you're seeking her permission or approval. Once again, take control, but without being a control freak.

Never point out how she's talking to you, as it will always escalate. Either she does it to pick a fight, in which case you lose by taking the bait, or she doesn't realise it, in which case she'll feel ashamed and embarrassed and get defensive when you point it out. Act as though you haven't noticed, and that it doesn't bother you. If she realises that she was doing it, she may well apologise afterwards. At that point you can thank her for her apology, and either say that it was no big deal and you didn't really notice, or that perhaps instead she could talk to you if somethings bothering her and she wants to.

The former tells her that you're not shaken by her moods, and she'll appreciate your strength and patience. The latter acknowledges that it's her problem and her pain, and that you understand and you wont push her on that unless she chooses to share it with you and discuss it, and shows her that you'll be there for her if and when she needs you to be.

Either way, neither put any pressure on her or give her anything to fight against. The trick is to always try and give her a positive out, and not make her feel trapped or cornered, as that's what will cause her to lash out, even if it isn't personal and only in what she sees as defense. As strong as she may seem at times, try to remember that often it's just a front, and that in many ways she's very insecure underneath it all. For someone like that, when those insecurities are brought to the fore, attack appears to be the best form of defense.

What I've found is that a good strategy is to try and create a team dynamic, almost a two of you against the world kind of thing, as conflict becomes much harder when you can get her seeing you both on the same side of the fence, instead of on opposites. Always remember though, that her nature is submissive, and so there's no harm in pointing out that teams work best with one captain, and that you're it. So, try to show that you're understanding of her frustrations, as that's what they are, and be a friend to her. It would probably sound patronising in any other context, but don't be an equal friend, be a little paternalistic, as she's already expressed that she wants you to take the lead, and so guide her a little. I'd avoid trying to directly offer advice, as either it will be seen as patronising, or you'll be the fall guy if it doesn't work out. Instead listen, and be supportive, and allow her to take responsibility for her choices.
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2017, 01:27:31 PM »

I guess what scares me is her impulsiveness

I mentioned the tattoo, marriage, she put her life insurance in my name, sold her place to move in with me, etc.

Then in a split second, after a minor disagreement as mentioned, she will change her mailing address, change her health insurance, get a storage unit, and move out.  She did these types of things before, and then would have to change everything back again. Which was a hassle.

She also at times will do anything for control. Even this entire week she knows she has the control.  I think the best advice given was just to lay down where I am at without and ultimatum and she will have to accept the consequences if she ultimately moves out.

I also struggle with the balancing act of not being controlling and giving her her freedom, yet also having boundaries.

Example.

She is always home waiting for me when I am home.  It was one of the days we had an argument.

So at 7 pm I text asking where she is.  She is at the hair salon.  So I just ask "why didn't you text me or tell me?"

She turns it into "why didn't you text me?" Which leads to me pointing out she had all day to tell me she had a late appointment and she never did this before.  So nice to just text. Then it escalates.

I sense she wants guidance and to be controlled yet also wants to be a free spirit.
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2017, 01:49:33 PM »

I also wonder after an entire year of professing great love.  Devotion etc. is she really about to just get her own place, move out, divorce and is fully ready to say goodbye?  Is it a test for me?  Is her love fickle?   She turns off that quickly?
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2017, 03:03:37 PM »

Impulsiveness is something you'll have to learn to live with. It's a knee jerk reaction on her part, that she can't help. The good news, and something you can reassure yourself with, is that she usually reverses it. It's a basic fight or flight response, that she can't help. It's a pain, but it is what it is, and hopefully that will calm down over time, as she feels more settled and secure.

Don't mention anything. Don't talk about the tattoo, or anything else she's done. Your situation is purely one of respect, attraction and desire, and you can't use reason or logic for that. You can't alter her mind, feelings or thoughts with words, only actions, as you've seen when you took a stand, The problem with words is that it's about timing, and her mood, and if you get that wrong she'll just resist and reverse her position.

Leave ALL initiation of ANY discussion of the relationship to her. Just stay firm in what you want and allow her to follow.

As for the texts, by all means ask where she is when she's not where you expect her to be, but don't say why didn't you tell me. Doing that makes you sound needy, and you just open the door for a back and forth. She wants a combination of things, she wants to feel your control, but doesn't want to feel controlled, if that makes sense? She wants to know you can take charge, but not imprison her. She may well want you to have more control, but she wont hand that over to you overnight. You have to let her hand it over, piece by piece, by showing you know how to use it, for the benefit of both of you. So just take things a step at a time, and the first step is showing that you're fully in control of yourself, your emotions, your needs and your wants and, as she starts to see that in you, then she'll become more comfortable in handing it over. She wants to submit to you, but needs to know you can handle her submission without getting bothered by the little things.

No, her love isn't fickle, she's just cautious and confused, and so yes, in some ways it is a test. She needs stability and certainty, and so will create chaos and confusion, to see if you can remain stable throughout, and provide that stability she needs.

I can't predict what she's thinking, but you said things were moving positively. So, forget what she may have said or done in the past, and just focus on the now. Be your own man, and stand your ground and let her follow. Set your own agenda and direction and invite her along for the ride, as she wants the journey too, but wants you to be the driver and her the passenger.
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Husband321
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2017, 08:36:03 AM »

Things went well last night.  We were together all evening and decided to go to dinner.

I gave her her ring back and told her "I want you to wear this"

At first she said "ok but this doesn't mean we are back together"

I stayed calm and said ok, I just want you to wear it.

Then she smiled and hugged and kissed me and seemed very happy. 

I still have some anxiety about what will happen.  All her things are in storage and she is nowhere to go expects hotel but she has plenty of money to live anywhere she wants.  She has stopped any house searching for now. 

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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2017, 11:50:28 AM »

It's natural to be anxious, but stop. Things are moving back in your direction, but anxiety will just cause you to try and rush things, which will push her away again and put you back to square one.

Right now she's stopped moving away from you, which is a huge plus. She's even starting to move back towards you. Keep your nerve and maintain your stance and allow her to do that slowly, at her own speed.

Things are getting back on your terms, and so you just have to be patient, as if you try to force them you'll undo all your good work.

I know it's hard, but just look at the progress you've made in just a couple of days. Trust those results and keep it up and things will only get better.
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2017, 12:22:08 PM »

It is REALLY tough to maintain my composure. 

This morning was great.  Made love a couple of times.  Same look in her eye. Etc.

We made plans to go to the farmers market today cook etc. 

So she was asleep, taking a nap, and I told her I had to run a few errands.  I'll be back shortly.

Before I get home she calls to say she is going to the salon again(third time in a week) as she wants her hair lighter. Which means she basically broke the plans we had.  I was hurriedly driving home to see if she took all the things with her that she just brought over.  She left everything here. 

So I assume she really is going to the salon as she must come back with her hair lighter.  But it just causes so much anxiety where as if I leave the home, I am assuming she might just take off again.  At anytime. 

Is this salon visit another test?  Forgot our plans?  Wants to see how I will react? Or just thinks it is totally normal to go off to the salon again with no prior mention at all.  She never once said her hair is too dark.  Might want to lighten it etc.  all of a sudden she goes from nap, to making an appt to changing hair color within 1 hour. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2017, 02:04:51 PM »

Stop trying to guess what she's thinking, and stop trying to figure out her every little move. It's impossible and will drive you nuts. Who knows? Maybe she wants to look good for you, so compliment her on how good she looks when she gets back.

Focus only on the big picture. She's still there and she's left her stuff there. Also she seems happy.

You're winning, so try not to worry so much.
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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2017, 03:07:21 PM »

Stop trying to guess what she's thinking, and stop trying to figure out her every little move. It's impossible and will drive you nuts. Who knows? Maybe she wants to look good for you, so compliment her on how good she looks when she gets back.

Focus only on the big picture. She's still there and she's left her stuff there. Also she seems happy.

You're winning, so try not to worry so much.

Thanks.  She texted me from the salon telling me how long it will take.  Also that she can't wait to go out with me tonight.

Just feel so anxious wondering if this  great weekend will lead up to "well I told you I am getting my own place" on Monday. 

Part of the problem is how I am handling this.  I keep focusing on the big picture, instead of enjoying day to day... .I am not sure of a good way to relax and just appreciate that she is here now, which would most likely make her want to stay.

So far have been doing s good job of not bringing anything up.  But by seindah night /Monday am we will have had to have this talk.
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2017, 03:48:11 PM »

Whoah stop!

You don't need to have any talk, and if you think like that you're going to want to bring it up and push it, which will backfire and put the power back in her hands. As you say, you've done a good job of not bringing anything up, and you can see the results of that for yourself

You've made your position clear, so just stand your ground on that. She's the on who moved her stuff out, and so if a talk about that needs to happen, then let her be the one to bring it up. As you've already seen, the more you do nothing, the more effort she seems to make, because she's has. You've said all you need to say, and now it's up to her. If she says she wants to move her stuff back, then don't go overboard with the enthusiasm. Tell you're happy to take her back, as long as she understands what you want and expect from her.

To be honest, the biggest issue seems not to be about BPD on her part, but anxiety and insecurity on your part, as if you feel it she'll sense it too, and will get cautious. You've managed to get a grip on that and she's responding positively and so, the longer you stay strong, the stronger more confident you'll start to feel.

However, you need to maintain it, no matter what she throws at you, as she will test you. So, if she says she's getting her own place on Monday, then don't let it throw you one jot. Simply tell her that you've already told her exactly what you want from her, that you mean it, and won't settle for anything less, but that you fully respect her decision if she feels she can't give herself to you 100%. Tell her that despite that, you want her to be happy too, and that you'd be happy to offer her any help in finding a place, if that's what she really wants.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's scary, but the only way it will work in the long run is by her choosing that it's really want she wants. If you push her, or put the slightest pressure on her, she may stay for a bit, but will always question whether it was what she really wanted. She needs to have the freedom of the option for an out, that you won't make difficult or challenge, and instead will support, as well the option of staying put, with you taking the lead. She needs to know that you want her, completely and utterly, but that you don't need her, and can still be happy without her.

So, when you go out tonight, don't bring up the relationship. Just concentrate on having a fun night out, with no pressure or expectations on either side.


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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2017, 04:16:32 PM »

Whoah stop!

You don't need to have any talk, and if you think like that you're going to want to bring it up and push it, which will backfire and put the power back in her hands. As you say, you've done a good job of not bringing anything up, and you can see the results of that for yourself

You've made your position clear, so just stand your ground on that. She's the on who moved her stuff out, and so if a talk about that needs to happen, then let her be the one to bring it up. As you've already seen, the more you do nothing, the more effort she seems to make, because she's has. You've said all you need to say, and now it's up to her. If she says she wants to move her stuff back, then don't go overboard with the enthusiasm. Tell you're happy to take her back, as long as she understands what you want and expect from her.

To be honest, the biggest issue seems not to be about BPD on her part, but anxiety and insecurity on your part, as if you feel it she'll sense it too, and will get cautious. You've managed to get a grip on that and she's responding positively and so, the longer you stay strong, the stronger more confident you'll start to feel.

However, you need to maintain it, no matter what she throws at you, as she will test you. So, if she says she's getting her own place on Monday, then don't let it throw you one jot. Simply tell her that you've already told her exactly what you want from her, that you mean it, and won't settle for anything less, but that you fully respect her decision if she feels she can't give herself to you 100%. Tell her that despite that, you want her to be happy too, and that you'd be happy to offer her any help in finding a place, if that's what she really wants.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's scary, but the only way it will work in the long run is by her choosing that it's really want she wants. If you push her, or put the slightest pressure on her, she may stay for a bit, but will always question whether it was what she really wanted. She needs to have the freedom of the option for an out, that you won't make difficult or challenge, and instead will support, as well the option of staying put, with you taking the lead. She needs to know that you want her, completely and utterly, but that you don't need her, and can still be happy without her.

So, when you go out tonight, don't bring up the relationship. Just concentrate on having a fun night out, with no pressure or expectations on either side.


Thanks.  The only thing that has ever worked in the past is when I have given her space and stopped chasing. Then within a day or two she misses me terribly.

My conflict lies in wondering do I need to show her she is completely loved by me chasing? Would seemingly acting indifferent to her leaving lead her to think "he really doesn't care too much" .   I mean simply letting her go after telling her my stance.  Not necessarily indeifferent.

Also, her being impulsive scares me.  Which leads me to feeling anxious and feeling I need to act.  .  She really would be the type to sign a lease , change her mind 3 days later, then when I take her back she just wasted thousands of dollars.

But overall I agree with you.   It's just the impulsive mistakes that scare me.


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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2017, 04:22:49 PM »

As a side note , I am amazed at the energy she has had this past week. 

She moved out, moved things into storage, different hotels, got a p o box, several trips to salon and malls, saw me wed, Thur, fri, sat.

While when she was here, it was having migraines, back ache, tired, sit around most of the day, etc.
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« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2017, 04:41:28 PM »

And here's the answer to your conflict. No! You do not show her that she's completely loved by chasing. That just shows her that you're needy and desperate, which is the last thing any woman wants. She knows how much you love her, you've already told her that. Besides, you've already said that the only thing that's worked in the past is not chasing. So why on earth would it work now?

Besides, this isn't about how much you love her, she knows that. This is about her wanting you to own her, and you can only do that by being the dominant partner and putting your foot down. It means having her respect you, and a woman can't respect a man who chases after her.

You're not being indifferent in the slightest. You've told her what you want, which is her, and told her what you expect from her. That's the very opposite of indifference, and is just being assertive, which so far she seems to like very much. You're just making it clear that you're the one in charge and won't be a doormat.

Like I said, there's nothing you can do about her impulsiveness, you just have to accept it. If she signs a lease and then changes her mind, it's her problem, and maybe she'll learn a lesson from it. Besides, being not scared, and putting your anxiety aside, is the only thing that seems to have stopped her in her tracks, and making her signing a lease less likely, so don't backtrack.

Like most people, they'll find the time and energy when they want it. Just don't let her pull the wool over your eyes about being tired, if she comes back. She'll get lazy if you allow her to, but that's not what she wants, she wants you to push her and take charge.

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« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2017, 06:45:20 PM »

I agree with all of your advice and thank you.

She is still at the hair salon, so most likely plans have been broken twice today.  Because of her hair... .she is really at the salon as I  drove by, but here is another issue we have had that is tough to navigate.

She had many "grand plans".  Homeschooling future kids, wants to cook 3 times a day, start various businesses, work out daily, etc.

But as an example, just to do her hair, she was at the salon TWICE on Thursday, all day Tuesday, and all day today. That is literally about 23 hours at the salon in one week. Her hair has been absolutely perfect. 

But anytime I have said something about poor time
Management, she get deeply wounded. If I merely point this out,  she might get really defensive. 

How do I "guide" her without being controlling? 
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« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2017, 07:24:24 PM »

You're welcome.

I'll be honest, with the best will in the world, I can't micro manage every aspect of your relationship, that would be a full time job. So, let's just concentrate on one step at a time, and the first step is getting her back. We're well on the way with that, and after that you can worry about the details.

For now, forget about other stuff, like her impulsiveness, or her poor time management. Right now they're not your concern, they're hers. Treat her behaviours as how she acted around the old you, and that the more you assert the new you, and the more she gets accustomed to it, then the more her behaviours will change. Be be mindful that won't happen overnight, so stop trying to fix everything in one weekend, as you can't, and will fail if you try.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that this is easy for her, even though she may make it look that way. She's insecure and confused, and so probably just as anxious as you. Maybe spending time at the salon is her way of trying to relax and deal with it, perhaps it calms her. Maybe she's excited about dinner with you tonight, and wants to make the effort. Don't forget, she's told you that she wants to be submissive, and submissive women love to please and look their best for their man, so be appreciative that she's doing it for you. If I was taking a woman out to dinner, and she spent the whole day in the salon, I'd be pretty thrilled, thinking that she must really care and be into me. So, don't tell her that her hair was perfect before, that will just be dismissive of her efforts, and instead tell her beautiful she looks.

You see, anxiety has a habit of twisting things, and making you worry about things that may actually be positive.

So, forget her time management for now, and how long she spends at the salon. Think of her as a woman who's happy and excited about having dinner with you, and who wants to please you and make a good impression by looking her best.
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2017, 09:46:22 AM »

Well I messed up.  Last night we both had a lot to drink.

She left the room and I went to look at her phone.  She changed the passcode. (We always had open phones).  I got mad... .put her stuff by the door. She claims she didn't want me to see the homes she is looking at or attorneys she called.  It just all
Made me think the worst, that she is looking super pretty to date immediately

She stayed the night, we had sex today, and are going to have lunch. 

However I still have waves of resentment for what she did. I love her but harbor anger. She got very close to my son.  Very close. And she does not care at all.  The way she just disappeared. The way she pushed for engagement.  Marriage. All for seemingly nothing. 

It was so hard to even get to this point.  She had a custody battle for a year. A home in another state she would never be at and would live with me and drive every other weekend for ten hours to be with me. And finally, once we are finally able to be together, she takes off. 

This has been her pattern.  Once we could live together, she looked for excuses to leave. I saw her notes one day and it had things like "he doesn't like onions, still has baby furniture in his basement" etc.

During one conversation she told me she was leaving as she has to work on Herself. Packed and ready to go.  Then the next day she buys me a 5000 dollar engagement ring. After I bought her a ring a few weeks later she said she didn't want to marry anymore.  And left.

Then she begged for me back, to sell her house and live with me. Once that happened she left again, saying it was too much.  Then she begged again. Begged for marriage. Once married she did the same.  She needs to work on herself.

For an entire year it was her fantasy and dreams about a home, farm, kids, family. We must have looked at 500 houses together to buy.  All she always wanted to do was talk about our future.

I am sure I did fail some of her tests these past few weeks.  It's not easy.  But at the end of the day perhaps this is the life she wants.  Sort of chaos.  Living out of her car.  Drama.  Etc.  that's all I have ever known of her. 

I am not sure at this point why she wants to stay the weekend. Just to have sex and hug and kiss me?  Hoping she will have a hange of mind?  Really loves me?  Loves me but can be two different people?  I have no idea
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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2017, 11:10:23 AM »

Well yes, you did mess up. Especially as things were going so well until then.

As for now, it's really up to you, and what you want. You can't change the past, and can only affect the present, and influence the future, and so looking at her phone was a pointless thing to do.

She stayed because at least part of her wants to try and make it work. The part that thinks you might have changed into a more confident, secure, dominant man. However, acting jealous and possessive is the opposite of that, so who knows what she thinks now.

Like I said, what you do next is dependent on what you want, but it's hard to advise you if you're going to do the opposite.
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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2017, 05:19:07 PM »

I agree. It was a big mess up


As of now we had lunch.  She does know I am serious About my. Kundaires



She asked again about 2 houses.   And I said no. I am not willing to do that. Then she asked about schooling to be an Astetician.  I said I totally support that.

Still nothing is in stone or taken for granted.  And I admit my mistakes. 
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