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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
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Question: Was she BPD?
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Author Topic: Was she BPD?  (Read 373 times)
kerbarzorpit

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12


« on: June 13, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »

I broke up with a girl I believe had BPD in August 2016. I’m a 29 years old lawyer and she was a 25 year old woman still studying communications at the university. It was a long distance relationship that started in the end of December 2015 so we could say it lasted for about 7 months. We both were from neighboring countries in South America and in March 2016, once she came back from working with an uncle in the US during January and February in order to get some extra money (it is summer vacations in the southern hemisphere), I visited her for the first time. Before starting the story there are a couple of things that perhaps you should know: I’m a very calm, righteous, serious, structured and picky person, and while I’ve dated many women, I never had a girlfriend before. When I was younger I did not care much about partying and was very shy too. Also, based on my religion (I’m Jewish) it is important for me that my partner shares my religion too. There are not too many Jewish girls in South America. For me also, it is hard to live in the moment and I’m always thinking about the next two steps. As you can see, many factors can explain why I was not able to find a girlfriend. Nevertheless, I did not met her through some dating website, my family is from her country and my grandmother once told me that one day a girl she knew liked a picture of me she had on her cell phone and told her to tell me to contact her. When I saw gorgeous girl on Facebook I added her and on the next day we started talking.

The beginning

After our first chat, I felt an unbelievable connection. I was feeling very positive, enthusiastic, but of course decided to go easy and get back to her in a couple of days. To be honest, no matter how positive I was, I never thought that I would speak with her every single day up until October 2016 (yes, even after we broke up). She wrote to me on the next day and everything felt so good. She was calm, sweet, mature, delicate, smart and beautiful. We shared so many patterns and ways of thinking. On the third day she was sending me pictures and asking to speak on the phone and we did on the fourth day. Things felt even better on the phone. She wasn’t holding anything, very straightforward and immediately assumed we were both interested in each other and was hoping that we could perhaps be in a relationship. She warned me that she wanted something serious, not a fling, to which I replied “Of course”. I’m a serious person after all. Everything was just too easy, but not in a bad way. It was flowing in an unreal way. It felt like “it was meant to be” and we were speaking one hour on the phone every day. Soon we were saying like it was a “fairy tale” and were jokingly saying that we were “soulmates”. She wasn’t holding anything. After two weeks she sent me in the middle of the night a very intense message saying that she wanted to kiss and hug me. There were no boundaries for her. She would talk to me almost like if we were partners. She would mention that she has been stuck with her period for one week; every single detail about her past that I would ask; and almost everything she did during the day, her frustrations, moments of joy and fear. She texted me all day long and waited for me to call her at night, she would leave her job early just for that given the time difference. During the first or second week it happened that I texted her two days straight in the morning and for the third day she said she was expecting my message because it felt romantic receiving texts in the morning and before going to bed. Every day I felt that I was more and more attracted to her, lured, seduced…and I liked it. She sent me a postcard by the end of January and I sent her flowers in February. I felt it was too good to be true at the beginning, but after a couple of weeks, I let myself go, it was the best experience of my life.

Her past

In February we had our first fight because in my structured mind, her past was not fitting the stable and delicate person I met. Up until she was 22 she had a 7 years relationship with her first Catholic boyfriend and I did not mind about it, it was quite normal actually. However, then she broke up and went to Italy to see her father because he was not paying alimony and she and her mother could not afford the university (it is very common in South America to stay at your parents’ house until you marry or finish your master degree). Her father was Italian and she was born in Italy, but her mother pushed him to move back to her country in South America when she was 7. When she was 12, her father cheated on her mother and left back to Italy. She always pictured his father like a monster and said that she hated him. However, while her mother was the victim, she also recognized that her mother always made her father miserable. Again, it was strange for me, but it wasn’t her fault and I wasn’t in a relationship with her parents, I felt for her and it made me love her even more. I also knew, based on what my grandmother told me, that during the following 10 years she and her mother lived based on alimony, some random projects of her mother and the money that her mother obtained from numerous relationships during those years. Her mother even dated a sick man, with a very low IQ, but part of a rich family until the family separated this person from her. Again, I already did not like her father and now I was second-guessing her mother, but not her. After alimony stopped coming when she was 22, like I said, she went to Italy with her mother in order to request alimony, her father did not want to pay anymore and kept her at a hotel while he was living with his new family. Her mother tried to get something from her father, but wasn’t able. After a few months, her mother returned to South America to live with her current boyfriend. As for my ex, she stayed in Italy, and during a year and a half she worked and had a relationship with her second boyfriend, a Muslim, who she dated in secret because of different religions and how both families were totally against it. She said she knew she would not marry him, but was feeling too lonely. Her father got sick and she started to live with him, then, tired, she left to Israel, for 6 months and was with at least three different men there until her mother told her to come back to South America. On May 2015 she left Israel and went back to South America because she wasn’t medicating herself properly and wanted to finish her career and Israel they were not letting her. Her mother was a in a new relationship and said that she would be able to pay. The part about not medicating herself very well? Well, later she told me that she suffered from endogenic depression. She also took sleeping pills, contraceptive pills to regulate her hormones and was addicted to Afrin. On May 2015, back in South America she started a relationship right away with someone Jewish this time, but 40 years old, broke up after two months, dated another Catholic guy for a couple of weeks whom she said was gay and left him, and then dated again the 40 years old until September 2015. She said he was too old and could not marry someone with such an age difference; she told me that she never loved him, that he was too childish and that she wanted a journey together with her partner. After that, she traveled for vacations in October 2015, left to the US in December 2015 because her mother broke up with her new financial source and both needed money for paying the university and that is when I appear. All these stories, of course, were mesmerizing for me. I learned that I should not question a girl’s past, and I will not do it again, but they just did not fit the calm, delicate, stable girl I met. After our fight she told me “I love you” and I said “I love you too”.

The relationship

From March until August 2016 I visited her 3 times (the first two) and she visited me 8 times, we saw each other every two weeks, basically. I paid for her tickets 6 times. When we were together everything was magical. We of course kissed on our first date and she wanted to do everything but sex (I did not even ask), she pushed for us having sex on my second visit. Everything fit. She cooked once for me, always brought food that I like and I did the same. We wrote each other letters for the plane and could stay a whole afternoon watching TV or looking at each other. Sex was amazing and we cherished every moment. Communication was exceptional in every level. It felt like she was made for me and she said I represented every single thing she ever wanted from a men. About sex, nonetheless, it was interesting, she was always pushing for it but also worried that I would not like it, that perhaps she was not good enough at it, she even warned me that since she has low dopamine, orgasms were hard to achieve for her. But she did achieve them quite often, and it made me feel great. She was very happy too, I knew she wasn’t faking. Now, the first problem was when I was leaving or she was leaving. It was extremely dramatic, she would cry and cry. In the afternoon of every Sunday she was already depressed and shaking sometimes. The first time we met in March 2016, following her initiative we already discussed a plan a several visits until she would finish her university by the end of 2017, then we would get married in 2018 and she would go with me to my master’s degree in the US. Yes, get married. We were in that zone already and she was pushing for it, she even wanted to do her last semester in my country. I knew it was not normal but felt it was part of the fairy tale. On the other hand, the master degree was also a must, without it, I just could barely afford a family in my country and while she did not like it, she understood it and welcomed the opportunity of living that together abroad.

The second problem was that fights started to mount. Sometimes they were small things, sometimes they were big things, but she would transform herself. In April 2016, that is after 4 months talking and 2 seeing each other, after a fight that was my fault because I touched her past, she didn’t want to answer the phone for almost an entire day, then she hesitated when I asked her if she loved me and finally she sent me a list of different things I had done that she did not like, like not recommending her to a buy with her scarce money a sweater she liked but didn’t needed and that I found awful, or not liking a dinner table she would have liked for our future home at the mall. I was puzzled, but since the fight was my fault, I said nothing and never again mentioned her past. The day after, she said she could not tolerate the long distance anymore, that she loved me too much. She said that we had to live together, that I had to find a solution. My parents offered help and told me that they would pay her to visit me every weekend. But that was not good enough for her. She wanted to live with me, and she would not live with me without getting married. I promised not to mention her past again, but that she had to promise that she would not push for a wedding, that she knew it was in 2018. I kept my promise, she did not. By June 2016 she was sometimes calling me saying that she could not hold it anymore, that we were over. The first time was crying that she could not take the distance anymore, but after that I only heard the cold callous voice of someone without feelings. Sometimes the love of my life was calling me and sometimes it was a monster. Again, when we were together everything was perfect, not even a shadow of that monster appeared, we spent my birthday together and said it was the first of many, a magical moment for me spending my birthday with the love of my life, but then each departure was a scandal and you could bet you would receive one of those calls during the week. If it wasn’t one of those calls, it was a complaint about not texting or calling enough, about not thinking about our future together or some jealousy driven commentary like “I went out with friends and I missed you so much. It is so hard, guys approach you and I’m not a nun” or “I don’t like you sharing office with a female lawyer”, “I don’t want you to go out, it makes me feel insecure”, “I don’t like you teaching at the university with all those young girls”, “Erase from Facebook that girl you dated a year ago”. And if it wasn’t jealousy, it was her pushing again: “How convenient is for you that I still need to finish my university” or “Your grandparents told my mother that they expect you to marry me when you feel you have enough for supporting a house, that is not true right?”.

(continue)
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kerbarzorpit

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12


« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 11:49:53 AM »

The end

When she came the last time in August 2016, it was supposed to be for 2 weeks. A week before she tells me that her father called her and wanted to see her. That she could not leave her father and that during the second week she was going to Italy if he was paying the ticket. I was sad of course, did not answer happily, I was disappointed, and then again she insulted me, told me I was selfish, not allowing her to be with her father, that he was expecting surgery and she had to see him. In the end, her father never had surgery and never bought the ticket. Of course, I wondered “If she can´t live without me and once told she would not even attend her father’s funeral,  why this is even happening?” I completely understood if she had to see him, but wondered how that relates with everything she previously told me. Add another fight to the scoreboard. Additionally, a week before that, my parents, after seeing me suffering during July, decided that if I’m expecting their help for paying the 100.000 dollars of the master’s degree in the US (a 9 month program), I would have to apply on that semester and go in September 2017 and not in 2018 after getting married (that is, one year earlier than what I told her). That way, I would start my life with solid feet once I come back in June 2018, I could buy an apartment and get married with more ease. It made sense, but meant going there without her. The wedding date, of course, would not change: mid 2018. In the meantime she would finish the university during the last semester of 2017, and could work a bit during the first semester of 2018. They would totally help me with tickets for her to visit me many times, but they did not want her living for free abroad without doing anything or risking her to destroy my one time only experience. I thought it wasn’t a bad idea, and I also knew I had no choice since I would have to pay for everything right from the beginning and I just could not pay the master, an apartment to live in back in South America and a wedding without their support. When I told her the new schedule once she arrived on a Friday of August 2016, she did not take it well. First she complained that I would not be for her for her last semester, that I was being selfish and that once she finishes the university she would likely go to Israel with her mother. Her mother wanted to leave and only her university was holding her. There was nothing left for her mother in that country and she would go with her mother. In Israel, moreover, she warned me that she would have to do her own life; she could not trust that I would meet someone else. I calmed her down, but it was a stressful weekend. Unfortunately, on Monday while I was at work, she cried all day before my mother and the day after faced my father requesting an explanation for not wanting to help if she was coming with me. She forced me to buy her a ticket that night and I refused. Same thing happened on Wednesday and I finally gave up. She would not hear, was determined, callous, cold and offended. I cried like a baby that night and she barely gave me some solace. “You lied to me”, “I don’t feel comfortable anymore, that’s all, I’m not leaving you, we are not breaking up” “your father disrespected me when he said I can’t be a mere appendix of you that I have to have my own life”, “you don’t love me, think if you really love me”. I told her that we could find some solution but she had to assure me that we are going to stay together no matter what, that I cannot stand hearing abandonment threats anymore. I asked her to please stand by my side and not in front of me, challenging me. Her counter request? “Only if you assure me I’m going to the US with you”. On Thursday morning she cried and we delayed the ticket for four more days. Her mother then called insulting me, saying that her daughter was not a “package”, that I was being disrespectful with her and that her daughter would not wait for me. I managed to calm her, but started to feel that everything was over. After a cold weekend, she finally said that she just needed to go home and process everything. In the end she left at the airport crying, kissing and hugging me, saying and swearing that we are going to be together no matter what, that she was not leaving ever. I truly believed her and felt calm. We would find a way, but it was nice to know that she would be there, no matter how complicated 2017 could be seeing each other less than usual. On the next day she called me and told me it was over. I hung up. I could not even speak and started to shake in the floor. She called and texted that night but I didn’t answer. The next day, I offered a pause, but she didn’t want that. “You are a good person, answer me”. Then I finally said that I had to go those 9 months; that I was doing that for our future; that we would see each other frequently and we would get married like I promised. Again, her answer was that it was over. After that, two month of “negotiations” followed, first it was me pleading and then it was her. But it was impossible to rationalize with her. It was getting married and living together by the end of the year since her mother was leaving now to Israel at the end of the year (forget about paying her university) or nothing. At one point she accepted not getting married (even though it was against her “principles”) but we had to live together. I just did not go for it. I loved that women with everything I had, I tried to convince her even though she blocked me and insulted me many times, but in the same conversation in which she said she loved me and wanted to marry me, also said that if I leave alone, in Israel she had to be open for something new, she would not look for it, but she just could not risk her life in waiting for me. I felt that was not love. Somedays she would say, “I hope one day you come back to Israel and save me” and in some days she would not even want to speak. Some days she would say “Years will pass if I ever love someone again” and some days she would say “Let’s make a pause and follow our own path now, I do not know what will happen to me next year. If both of us are free after one year, then great”. Already in October 2016, she was constantly sending pictures of our best moments and trying to convince me, saying that we could not be apart, that she only wants to be with me, as simple as that. “You only live once” she would say. “We are young, we can make it work. We have to enjoy each other”. On some other days, her play was quite different, though. She would tell that she would never allow the love of her life to go to a country full of Jewish girls having the chance to avoid it and then in early November 2016 said that I was a puppet, a coward, that I lacked courage, not man enough, and that my father had me grabbed by my balls and I finally blocked her. She wrote me e-mails after that, amazing love e-mails in December 2016 while she was still in South America, and in January 2017 and the beginning of February 2017 already in Israel. “I hope there is still a chance”, “I’m trying to be with you and you push me away”,  “You taught me what love is”, “Imagine I hold your hands and look into your eyes when I say I’m the love of your life”, “One day we will see each other again, I know it and we will resume our love and be together forever”. She would tell me things about her life during her last month in South America and her first month in Israel and I always answered, not right away, be kept answering. I was starting to feel in love again, I thought that if she was still searching for me, she really loved me, that my professional future was nothing in comparison to the love of your life and then, less than one month after her last e-mail she retrieves her Facebook friend request (which I never reaccept) and publishes that she is in a relationship with some random guy and that he is the love of her life with a picture kissing him (Facebook cover picture included too). Aa picture of him sleeping in her bed would follow, publicly. The guy is completely the opposite from me.

I’ve been suffering for the last 3 months after that. Was she BPD? Was it just the distance? Did I make the right choice considering how much I loved her or I wasn’t bold enough? What would have happened if I had accepted her to come here and live with me? Those 4 questions are haunting me.
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Mutt
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10395



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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2017, 05:25:42 PM »

Hi kerbarzorpit,

Welcome

I'd like to start off by apologizing for the late welcome. I'd also like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I have a question for you, what made you search for BPD? I think that you probably have a strong feeling that she is and that you wanted to confirm that. I see that you mentioned abandonment threats and that is a theme that is aparrent in your introduction. We're not doctors, so we can't diagnose, only a professional can do that! What we can look at are borderline traits.

We look at the traits and look at why we were attracted to those traits, what boundaries that we can set on ourselves today so that we don't go through another excrutiating experience and we can also work on our relationship skills.

Excerpt
If it wasn’t one of those calls, it was a complaint about not texting or calling enough, about not thinking about our future together or some jealousy driven commentary like “I went out with friends and I missed you so much. It is so hard, guys approach you and I’m not a nun” or “I don’t like you sharing office with a female lawyer”, “I don’t want you to go out, it makes me feel insecure”, “I don’t like you teaching at the university with all those young girls”, “Erase from Facebook that girl you dated a year ago”. And if it wasn’t jealousy, it was her pushing again: “How convenient is for you that I still need to finish my university

I think that she's testing to see if you're going to abandon her, a pwBPD also have very low self esteem, self worth, self loathe and are hyper vigilant when it comes to rejection, perceived or real rejection.

Excerpt
I loved that women with everything I had, I tried to convince her even though she blocked me and insulted me many times, but in the same conversation in which she said she loved me and wanted to marry me, also said that if I leave alone, in Israel she had to be open for something new, she would not look for it, but she just could not risk her life in waiting for me. I felt that was not love.

I'm sorry that you found her in a new r/s when you accepted the friend request. That has to hurt like hell. I think that you made the right choice, you give me the impression that you're smart and that you listened to your intuition when there was something suspicious about how she had a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde persona. If you check other discussions you'll find that you can relate to other people's stories over and over.

I have some questions for you, are you still in touch with her? How's your support system? Are you seeing a T? ( therapist )

BPD: What is it? How can I tell?
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kerbarzorpit

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12


« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2017, 06:23:17 PM »

Thank you so much for the reply and making me feel welcomed, Mutt.

One psychiatrist told me she probably is BPD. I just wanted to hear the opinion of this community. After all, the experience of all the people here is massive, even if there are not any doctors. I know no one can diagnose here, perhaps the way I phrased my questions was not adequate. I apologize for that. However, the fact that you are telling me that I can relate to the stories of many people here (and I do, I've been all day reading posts) helps a lot.

You see, the problem is that a part of me believes her. I'm ruminating all day wondering if I was a coward, if I lost the love of my life because of master's degree or not risking enough. Was she just someone who loved me too much and just wanted to be with me and I disappointed her? Based on the traits, and what you read (and this question goes for any reader of this community) did I do the right thing?

I haven't contacted or heard from her since March (3 months ago) when I simply wrote to her "Thank you!" once I saw a picture of her kissing the new guy and shouting in every possible way on Facebook that she is on a relationship.
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Mutt
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Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2017, 06:41:00 PM »

Hi kerbarzorpit,

Excerpt
Was she just someone who loved me too much and just wanted to be with me and I disappointed her?

Did all of the other men disappoint her too? What's her track history like?

Now if you look at her history, what do you think is going to happen with this new guy?
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kerbarzorpit

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12


« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2017, 08:52:01 PM »

Hey Mutt,

I see your point. If you read the paragraph titled "Her Past" you can see that every other relationship was a disappointment for her. Even with respect to the 7 year boyfriend she once told me that because it was a 7 year relationship it does not mean it was good. Furthermore, she once told me that every relationship from her past was nothing compared to our relationship, that before she was only caring about herself and not really the other person. When we broke up, she insisted as you also read for months. She would say that everytime she would break up she would never look to the past, but with me it was different.

Bottom line, regardless of  her past, based on all the story, can I be blamed? Because I would travel land and sea to see her if I suddenly realize it was my fault.

About the other guy, I don't know. Up until the guy before me, she wasn't looking to get married, now she does, and from what my friends have told me from seeing her pictures, they seem to be in love. If she finds with someone else what she wanted it would makesme feel bad.
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Mutt
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced Oct 2015
Posts: 10395



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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2017, 08:58:33 PM »

Hi kerbarzorpit,

It's speculation that you were the only that she asked to marry. You'd have to talk to the other guys to be absolutely certain of that.
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