I seem to be attracted to borderlines

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I FEAR being idealised! I think this is at least in part down to past experiences. Since I was a kid I've recognised that someone looking up to you when you want to be equals means they think you have something they do not. And it may well be stability. That is why I got out of my BPD relationship fast.

[Red Sky]

I FEAR being idealised! I think this is at least in part down to past experiences. Since I was a kid I've recognised that someone looking up to you when you want to be equals means they think you have something they do not. And it may well be stability. That is why I got out of my BPD relationship fast.

[seeking balance]

Such an important question, or we are doomed to repeat the history that failed us once already.

I don't think so, that doesn't mean we won't be attracted to it though - we don't have to act on our impulses... . it is hard not to do, but it is possible.

[seeking balance]

I think... . to be attracted to and want that wild rush which accompanies any start of a r/s during that goo-goo happy honeymoon idealization phase isn't a bad thing - but if that is all we are looking for, then when that starts to fail (for whatever reason) then the r/s is doomed.  And if either party aren't mature enough to handle an exit - then all sorts of hurts happen.

I agree we all like goo-goo phase, me too.  There is a difference between that and idealization, I can see this now much clearer.

You can tell a lot about someone by how they end relationships and what they do next... . very true.

I prefer to go into a r/s knowing what I'm bringing, knowing myself well enough to know what makes me happy (and, not looking toward someone else to "make me happy".  And I certainly don't want the other person to bring the drama to mess up my happiness - or cause me to have to compromise my own values or wants to the point that I'm unrecognizable (I don't care how great the sex is).

Timing is a lot of this, I mean life can be messy w/o a relationship, so if someone is dealing with big stuff (kids, divorce, parents death, etc) I think we might not be getting their authentic self, same with us.  Timing for 2 people on equal footing is a lot more to this than I probably realized a couple years ago.

[woodsposse]

 

Yes... . timing.

Back when I met my second wife (20 years ago) - I was just coming out of a very turbulent r/s... . and had just left my three kids with my first wife and was trying to start over.  I had come back to my home state (which I really didn't want to do... . but had no other option) - and was trying to get on my feet.

BAAAAMMM... . Met the cutest little girl and our love story and how it happened is still a really cute tale to tell.  But I certainly wasn't in any condition (or mood) to really take on her as a responsibility. I could barely take care of myself.  She was prematurely dislocated from her college career, in-between 'homes' (she wasn't staying at daddy's home, but her brothers home in the city... . where we met)... . so when we started dating she practically moved in.  At first I didn't mind too terribly much.  She was cute (and hot) as all get out.

And boy was she in love with me!

Then we moved into our first apartment - played house - and things went to hell in a handbasket.  I was all about the responsibility it would take to run the house, not fall behind on rent and get a good job so I could support myself.  I was (and still am) close to 10 years older than her... . so she was 20 by this time.  Still very wet behind the ears and not sure what she wanted to do in her life.

So we cycled... . and cycled hard.  We eventually broke up (and when she moved out, I felt no where near the pain and frustration as I did after 20 years of being around her and she moved out the last time!).  We did the break up/make up game a few more times before we got married and I got custody of my kids from my first marriage.  Things seemed fine for a time - then as the kids got older, whatever rift there was between us got wider and wider and anger, pain, frustration - you name it was all over the place.

Which eventually led me here.

But... . two months after her and I split for good - I met my GF of the last 18 months.  Talk about recognizing the timing.

I knew I initially was in the r/s as a transition - and I was receiving some of the 'good stuff' I hadn't had in so very very long.  But that couldn't and wouldn't keep our r/s going for entirely too long and we would have to re-establish what we were doing.  I know during our r/s, for the most part, I was so set on trying to be there and NOT do some of the things I was accused of doing in my marriage which wasn't fair to her or me, because ultimately I was still being controlled by my connection to my previous r/s.

Which... . by the way - is part of what happened when I met my second wife anyway.

I was so still negatively connected to that r/s I didn't realize I hadn't spent the time I needed to decompress and get a handle on what was going on with me before taking this young girl by the hand and run off into the funset to play house for the next 20 years.

I still miss that little girl.  I miss what I thought we had and how it felt - but the timing wasnt right and we pushed through with years of conflict because of it. 

This is how I know I'm at a point of healing more now than before I came to this site.

I can see what I did, how I did it, what I brought and regardless of her mental wellness state - what I allowed to shadow over both of us for so long.  That is not a great thought to have in my head... . that I could have 'controlled this' (or have a handle on it is probably a better way to say it) long long ago.

I wish I could go back and change it.  I wish I could go back and tell her that I think she is a wonderful young lady and that I do like spending time with her, but if we are going to move forward with anything, I have to take it slow.  We can't jump to moving in together.  She should have her life as straight as possible.  Figure out school.  Figure out work.  Heck, have her own apartment for a bit. Then maybe we could come together.

But I didn't.

Now that I know her as well as I do it is clear she didn't want her own apartment.  She didn't want her own job.  She wanted to be a stay at home mom and be taken care of.  She has some serious FOO issues and childhood traumas she is working under.  Her issues mixed with mine... . the perfect storm.  Her inner child found mine and we enmeshed and found soothing.

But we can't live in that enmeshed soothing... . not when there are bills to pay, or jobs to get, or differing expectations for life and home and family and such.  The real world side of relationships.

Timing!  Never a TARDIS around when you need one!

[seeking balance]

But... . two months after her and I split for good - I met my GF of the last 18 months.  Talk about recognizing the timing.

I knew I initially was in the r/s as a transition - and I was receiving some of the 'good stuff' I hadn't had in so very very long.  But that couldn't and wouldn't keep our r/s going for entirely too long and we would have to re-establish what we were doing. I know during our r/s, for the most part, I was so set on trying to be there and NOT do some of the things I was accused of doing in my marriage which wasn't fair to her or me, because ultimately I was still being controlled by my connection to my previous r/s.

Being alone for a while is the only way I have seen on getting the old out - being present, not reacting... . I didn't do that in my past, not the real time - until my BPD divorce, and truthfully, I started dating with a lot of walls and met nice people, short term relationships, where I was only capable of a certain amount of emotional vulnerability - after about a year of that, I took another break in dating and it was during that time that I really was able to get to the core of my stuff.

I wish I could go back and change it.  I wish I could go back and tell her that I think she is a wonderful young lady and that I do like spending time with her, but if we are going to move forward with anything, I have to take it slow.  We can't jump to moving in together.  She should have her life as straight as possible.  Figure out school.  Figure out work.  Heck, have her own apartment for a bit. Then maybe we could come together.

But I didn't.

Now that I know her as well as I do it is clear she didn't want her own apartment.  She didn't want her own job.  She wanted to be a stay at home mom and be taken care of.  She has some serious FOO issues and childhood traumas she is working under.  Her issues mixed with mine... . the perfect storm.  Her inner child found mine and we enmeshed and found soothing.

But we can't live in that enmeshed soothing... . not when there are bills to pay, or jobs to get, or differing expectations for life and home and family and such.  The real world side of relationships.

Timing!  Never a TARDIS around when you need one!

Healthy people want to take care of themselves, it really is that simple.  There is a difference between emotional vulnerability and unhealthy caretaking... . it is me changing me that has let me see where my role is in that.

[DreamFlyer99]

Such an important question, or we are doomed to repeat the history that failed us once already.

I don't think so, that doesn't mean we won't be attracted to it though - we don't have to act on our impulses... . it is hard not to do, but it is possible.

True. i guess i was thinking of all the people i've known who didn't choose to look at what caused the failure of all their relationships and ended up repeating them because they still didn't have their eyes open. When we choose to do things differently we should have a different outcome.

[seeking balance]

When we choose to do things differently we should have a different outcome.

I agree 

[woodsposse]

When we choose to do things differently we should have a different outcome.

I agree 

True, true and true.

[Blimblam]

I want to know why? 

I have been reading 2010's posts... . very imformative.

I want to emerge a butterfly.   Any resources or books people can recommend to get the type of understanding 2010 seems to have would be amazing

[Turkish]

I want to know why? 

I have been reading 2010's posts... . very imformative.

I want to emerge a butterfly.   Any resources or books people can recommend to get the type of understanding 2010 seems to have would be amazing

I don't know if I can help you with that, exactly, but Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist may help you identify the behaviors on your side which contribute to your dynamic in such relationships.

[Blimblam]

I want to know why?  

I have been reading 2010's posts... . very imformative.

I want to emerge a butterfly.   Any resources or books people can recommend to get the type of understanding 2010 seems to have would be amazing

I don't know if I can help you with that, exactly, but Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist may help you identify the behaviors on your side which contribute to your dynamic in such relationships.

thanks Turkish!

I keep reading in 2010s posts about who the BPD reminds me of in my childhood and it will be some kind of breakthrough... .    Im trying to have this breakthrough foo moment recolection... . I am not having it... .

I know my story so she reminds me of my borderline mother who divorced my dad at age 1. I was raised with my dad.  my step mom starting from when I was age 3 was not a loving woman but more like a boss.  My dad had temper problems that were triggered by my sociopathic brother.  My sociopathic brother was from another mother and 9 years older than me.  He tortured me my entire life. with sadistic pleasure.

[Blimblam]

I am wondering how the ptsd following from the relationship wit  my exuBPDgf is retated to childhood trauama... Is this latent complex ptsd from a crappy childhood?  My childhood doesn't seem that bad but I don't know how to compare it to a "healthy" childhood.

[Turkish]

I am wondering how the ptsd following from the relationship wit  my exuBPDgf is retated to childhood trauama... Is this latent complex ptsd from a crappy childhood?  My childhood doesn't seem that bad but I don't know how to compare it to a "healthy" childhood.

It could be, but perhaps be gentle with "pathologizing" yourself, as my T told me. I certainly had PTSD symptoms, though maybe not enough for a dX, and they've all but faded over the past few months.

Our FOO issues are certainly triggers, and most likely the contributing factor for those of us who endured relationships with pwBPD. My Ex told me, "you abandoned me, if felt just like my father!"

It took me a long time to realize, "hey, her BPD behaviors felt just like my mother!" In realizing this, I started posting to the FM board... .

I'm sorry you were tortured by a sadistic half-brother. I have a friend like this who was in the same situation, and he swears to this day that if he ever sees him again, he'll do something bad. I was blown away that in his early 40s, he's still carrying this with him. It was triggered by heavy combat duty overseas as well.

Have you seen the link on PTSD?

What is PTSD and how do you define "trigger"?

Is it an option for you trying to process this with a counselor?

[corraline]

Any resources or books people can recommend to get the type of understanding 2010 seems to have would be amazing



Jeffrey Young's   Reinventing your Life  

one of em'

and i think The Search for the Real Self mayb another ?  James F. Masterson MD

[Blimblam]

thanks Turkish and corraline ,

I checked out that link Turkish thanks for that.  I took a hard look at my FOO issues and intellectually I know why.  I am waiting for my body to process it and begin to have more aha moments.  Therapy isn't really an option for me unless I can find something affordable.

I got a Jeffrey young book and the masterson Book I am reading through them currently.  It is helping. I think once I read through both of those books Ill take some mushrooms and Ill probably have a bunch of epiphanies then.

[corraline]

Hi Blimblam

Therapy is barely an option for me too because of current finances.  My t is kind enuff to offer a sliding scale.  Some do.  It means inquiring and you may find someone with a reasonable fee that you can manage.

Since we were talking books , i found Peter Levine's trauma work good too.  It helped me to get a more felt sense of where the trauma was in my body.  I do some of his exercises when i find myself feeling a little loopy with too much processing in my head and i need to be more present in my body. Not sure if what im mentioning may relate to your comment about waiting for your body to process it.

not sure if you have read the betrayal bond... . patrick carnes. very good read.

[Blimblam]

I had sort of a break through... . My ___ing step mom has shamed me my entire life.

I really think things could have worked with my last two exs if it wasn't for my step mom.  I can think of multiple examples where she set up situations to bring a constant sense of shame upon me.  So I could be the bad guy and she the good guy to my dad. 

Ugh this is killing me.

IN recent times there were critical moments where I needed her help that she had promised to give but she just shamed and invalidated me.  she was spending a lot of time around my ex and she began to shame and invalidate me too.

She is a narcissist no wonder I hate narcissists so much!

her plan is going to work.  I hate her so much She is the worst person in my life.

[woodsposse]

Subconsciously... . in response to rwlaiinships as such ww grow up and

Recreate the dynamics of the dysfunctional relationship in order to fix it.

Problem is if we dont know that is what we aredoing we jjust repeat it again and again until we have a restorative relationship.

[DreamFlyer99]

Shame was an old-school way of discipline and I know I got my share of it too--plus my mother was likely an NPD/BPD mix, and my dad a functional alcoholic. So there were some crazy dynamics flying around that house!

I am reading a book called "Complex PTSD--from surviving to thriving" by Pete Walker. It's been quite illuminating. If in our early years we had a caregiver who didn't feed into our needs for comfort and love and nurture we tend to build some very faulty core beliefs that help us survive our childhood, but don't serve us well in our adult lives and relationships. The idea of it reminds me of how the pwBPD has deeply held yet faulty beliefs. So essentially we need to do the work of becoming our own inner parent, and start filling in those needs for nurture. People with complex ptsd tend to be very very hard on themselves, and we need to learn to tell ourselves the truth about who we are. That can be very freeing!

It can be a lengthy process I think, but what else are we doing with our time and energy? generally worrying about why it's so hard with a pwBPD. So if we can get our own sense of self into great shape then it makes sense our necessary boundaries and responses will come much easier since we'll be able to be more reciprocal and less "feed my need" based.

df99

[Blimblam]

Subconsciously... . in response to rwlaiinships as such ww grow up and

Recreate the dynamics of the dysfunctional relationship in order to fix it.

Problem is if we dont know that is what we aredoing we jjust repeat it again and again until we have a restorative relationship.

yes,

I needed a borderline to show me. show me myself to myself.  To expose me to my shame to allow me to heal.

[Blimblam]

Subconsciously... . in response to rwlaiinships as such ww grow up and

Recreate the dynamics of the dysfunctional relationship in order to fix it.

Problem is if we dont know that is what we aredoing we jjust repeat it again and again until we have a restorative relationship.

yes,

I needed a borderline to show me. show me myself to myself.  To expose me to my shame to allow me to heal.

not just any borderline... .my fallen angel... .my soul mate... .my muse... .

[Blimblam]

my big breakthrough... .

I cried from the depths of my soul echoing throughout my entire life

a wounded child emerged as pure emotion transcending the dimensions of time and space.

My desire to love and be loved.

pure intention.

blanketed in sorrow

buried deep hidden in the darkest crevices of my shadow

the place I dare not look

in my shame

i'm sorry

i'm sorry

i'm sorry

[Blimblam]

quiet desperation

American flag waving in the distance

sound of a door closing

last two cigaretes

crickets chirping

street light shines on rustling leaves

Alone

not all is lost

[Blimblam]

What I am starting to wonder is if there is any such thing as a "non"? 

I realized the ex I thought was a non isn't.  when I tried to have a conversation with her she was only interested in getting back together... .When I told her I was having issues and maybe to talk about them with her she didn't know what to say there was an emotional gap.  When I think back it was always about her and me serving her needs.  I think she is some kind of narcissist an vulnerable narcissist with some minor histrionic tendencies.



So do nons even exist?

[woodsposse]

It is my humble opinion that you are over thinking things.

Boundaries.

Think boundaries.

We all have traits... .we all can be wrapped up in ourselves from time to time.

But if it is something youdont like... .you have and always had the power to accept it or nout.

Your happiness starts and ends with you

[Blimblam]

It is my humble opinion that you are over thinking things.

Boundaries.

Think boundaries.

We all have traits... .we all can be wrapped up in ourselves from time to time.

But if it is something youdont like... .you have and always had the power to accept it or nout.

Your happiness starts and ends with you

yes, I need to be true to myself.

for me understanding has always been a huge part of my path to myself.  I seek truth. 

In my RS with a borderline seeking understanding and truth creates conflict with the shared fantasy we created because she does not want to face the truth she seeks blissful ignorance.  In my futile attempts to make things work and find understanding I was actually in denial of the truth once It began to surface I was not true to myself yet I was true to the fantasy.

I think in being true to myself boundaries will be a natural byproduct of that realization.

[DreamFlyer99]

Blimblam--

I too use poetry as a way to process things, like when my sister died 2 years ago I wrote poems for a whole month. So I was wondering, what if you were to write at least one poem every day for a month about whatever you want about your r/s or about what you've learned or anything at all about that? You would be processing the grief and your feelings in a really great way. I know I learned a lot about myself in the process, I guess because it uses a different part of the brain than we usually do. It could be worth a try!

df99

[Blimblam]

Blimblam--

I too use poetry as a way to process things, like when my sister died 2 years ago I wrote poems for a whole month. So I was wondering, what if you were to write at least one poem every day for a month about whatever you want about your r/s or about what you've learned or anything at all about that? You would be processing the grief and your feelings in a really great way. I know I learned a lot about myself in the process, I guess because it uses a different part of the brain than we usually do. It could be worth a try!

df99

I think I will try this I have written but like 20 poems ever and mostly as projects in elementary and middle school. But I was having a hard time writing how I felt, I realized, trying to express myself when explaining this BPD to people.  Then I started to realize how I explained things often was acceptable if It was considered a poem .

Im sorry about your sister.  Thank you for sharing that with me.

I am still at a point when trying to explain how powerful an experience falling in love with a borderline going through hell and finding your family of origin issues in yourself.  How it is like the basis of so many ancient to modern works of art.  From the oddysy, to film noir, to all kinds of art.  I have a new found appreciation for the metaphor of this experience in art and myth. WHen I bring it up though people get defensive and minimize it.  The experience is quite archetypical.  

In myth the borderline is presented as magical beings that trap you in their spell.  Eventually the hero has to go to through hell before they can arrive at their destination.  In the odyssey he returns home to deal with family issues.

I really am starting to think the borderline is like a feminine interpretation of narcissism and thus a lot of these traits are appearent to a lesser degree in relationships with women in general.

[woodsposse]

 

Personally, I think you are over thinking this a little.

I can appreciate what you mean by saying when you bring it up to some people they get defensive and miinimize it... .that has a lot to do with either they haven't been through a r/s with a person with a PD... .or they haven't come to understand what a pwPD means.

I wouldn't over analyze it or romanticize it.  It is a disorder.  Either they know they have it, or they don't.  Either way  - the effects of the disorder are plain and obvious (now... .that is).  So, it is what it is.

As for seeing traits (even to a lesser degree) in relationships in general - well that part is true.  We all have traits.  There is no denying that.  It is what we do with them which makes a difference. 

What worked for me was to focus on myself.  Focus on my history - which, for me, led me to my FOO and whatever core trauma was there which made me "willing" to be in r/s even when I knew there was a great deal of dysfunction.  Then, and only then, was I able to detach from my (now) ex-wife... .and come to acceptance of what happened.

It won't change anything which preceeded it.  And no amount of analyzing or ruminating or comparing to classic literature is going to make the past different.  But I have been able to get to a point of acceptance - and can keep my minds eye open to signs (red flags) moving forward in any relationship which takes me away from my stable emotional wellness point.

This is what worked for me.  I'm sure you are on a path to have whatever will work work for you.

But I wonder... .what do you do to focus on you?  Do you do sports?  Do you like to paint?  What is it that makes you you?

[Blimblam]

woodspose,

I am an INFP on the meyers briggs test.  Thinking of things in terms of archetypes and myth with rich fantasy is what I do.  Seeking understanding and truth that I have to feel. the INFP is the dreamer idealest healer. Meyers the creator of the Meyers brigs test, the writer of game of thrones, jrr Tolkien, david chronenberg these are some examples of famous INFPs.  They claim homer, shakespear, albert camus, franz kafka, the writer of the Winnie the pooh, and the little prince, c.s lewis, George orwell. I am pretty sure the creator of arrested develpmont also.

I am no genius but I understand these things through self reflection and contemplation, putting the pieces together on a small scale and a large scale.  I am very bigger picture. Microcosm of the macrocosm.  lets say I go to a bar I would probably find a quiet corner and contemplate these things and how these patterns are occurring in the interactions of the people around me and how they relate to the core beliefd that exist in society as a part of a cultural aspect of the psyche.  This is just how I am.

I think outside myself to create frameworks based on what it is I feel from within.

I am a lonely child schema and I retreat into solitude to self sooth and find understanding.

I am using this experience as a source of inspiration, its no wonder I relate to homers story of the odeyysy or when I first came here was seeking out the archetypes of the borderline that exists within art, whether rap music or film noir.

Ill try to sit down and at some point draw the correlations to the borderline personality in a piece of media.  I can share that with people.

for example when I was beginging to date my last ex I decided to stay to be with her rather than go to southeast asia to become a a Buddhist monk and study manual healing modalities.