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Author Topic: I keep trying to SET but the truth makes him mad  (Read 935 times)
coworkerfriend
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« on: August 03, 2017, 04:06:59 PM »

I haven't posted in a few weeks - mainly because of the "groundhog" days I have been experiencing.  We have a string of good days - he starts slipping into a bad place and gets stuck there for a few days, pulls himself out and then it starts all over again. 

I have been very firm in my boundary of leaving at any sign of anger or dysregulation - which is better than him dumping on me and blaming me for everything that has ever gone wrong in his life but I feel like it has gotten me stuck in a new cycle.  I have been trying to validate when he is in a good place - before things go south and I have been trying to use SET more often in our conversations.  But the main issue is that at the mention of any sort of truth as to what's going on - it sets him off and he gets angry.  I feel like I have created a monster by validating his feelings and he just spirals out of control so easily.  Today he started to talk about something that was bugging him from 3 years ago - I was sympathetic - I said I understand why he feels like that and then he started to say its too late to do anything about it.  I was understanding and I listened to him work himself for a little bit and I said that I see how much this affects him and I didn't think it was too late to try and work through some of the issues.   He got really mad and he left.   Which was better than him staying here and distracting me all day but it did leave me very unsettled. 

A few times in the past few weeks, I have tried to bring more truth into our conversations.  It really hasn't gone well at all.  He either gets mad or he dismisses me.   It's really getting to me not being able to express any of my feelings.  Resentment and anger seem to be building up inside me.  He expects me to leave him - he pushes me away.  My stubborn side stays because I always believed the good would outweigh the bad.  But this past year has left me rethinking that.   

I need help with SET - I need help moving past this cycle we are stuck in.   I don't know what to do next.
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 07:37:44 PM »

Can you give us some he said she said for getting more truth in?

Here is the thing... .sometimes the truth sucks... .no way to soft sell.

Very proud of your boundaries!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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coworkerfriend
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 08:38:42 PM »

Thanks FF - it's hard to stay strong and tonight I messed up. He kept calling- I got sick of it and I drove to his house.  I asked if there was something he needed - I offered to make him dinner.  He got crazy mad - this was the final straw for him - he hates his life - he was horribly dysregulated.  I tried to calm him down - he said I don't care - I fought back a bit - until I finally came to my senses and left.  He's been calling and texting - I turned off my phone.  I am mad at myself - I am overtired and I knew better.

So an example of the he said she said SET goes sort of like this - he starts to talk about a client or friend that wronged him - I listen - respond how I understand - he's a good man - and he starts to get more worked up - I try to validate and tell him it's unfair and then as gently as I can remind him a bit if truth about what happened.

Maybe I don't know what I am doing - I obviously don't since I am stuck in this awful cycle.

He lives in the past- ruminating over all the bad things that ever happened to him and blaming me for not helping him through any of it.  I remind him of all the bad situations. 

I want to live in the present - he won't ever get past those things in his head. Today is one of the first times I can think of where I didn't get triggered by his words. I hope this feeling lasts.  I am so tired of it all.

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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 10:13:05 PM »


Ugggg... .my gut says you invalidated him with good man comment.

Stay away from suggesting or telling what they are... .listen and validate an emotion.


Can you give more examples?


You may want to focus on listening... vice validation.


FF
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flourdust
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 11:05:05 AM »

So an example of the he said she said SET goes sort of like this - he starts to talk about a client or friend that wronged him - I listen - respond how I understand - he's a good man - and he starts to get more worked up - I try to validate and tell him it's unfair and then as gently as I can remind him a bit if truth about what happened.

I think SET is a technique that is useful when you need to communicate to someone that there has to be a change. If, say, your partner was demanding that you go on a Tahiti vacation, and you had to communicate that you couldn't afford it, that's an opportunity for SET.

I hear that your partner is venting about someone who bothered him. It's not about you, and there really isn't any impact if he's allowed to continue. This might be a time to simply validate his feelings and tune the ranting out.
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coworkerfriend
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 11:18:48 AM »

I am sure that I am unclear on when to use SET - there are changes that need to be made both at work and at home.  When he is in a good place in his head - he won't listen to me - says he has things under control and when he is in bad place, things spin so quickly out of control, there is no place for SET. 

I am sure I invalidate him when I say anything during a bad episode.  I am overthinking it all and I know I am getting myself caught in the cycle. As he is slipping into a bad place in his head, I can see it happening and there is nothing I can do to stop it.  When I think about where I am in this relationship, it is so obvious to me that we are both stuck in this cycle of indecision.  I realize that as the nonBPD, I will have to take the lead and I don't know what to do. 

I am hesitant to post specific examples - I need to figure out how to write them out without giving too many details.  I have worried for years that in his internet searching he will come across this board and see what I have posted.  I seem to let myself get caught in his words and my attempts to "help" just make things worse.

I wasn't going to stop by his house this am - but after so many phone calls, I got triggered and I went to see him.  He has continued to make threats about things and when I don't react, he has been following through with them.  This morning's threat was again about his exwife.  He called her and while I was there, she called him back.   I got upset - we argued and I left.  I have lost sight of my boundaries - I feel like I lost sight of my life.  I let myself be controlled by the chaos.  I am upset with myself.  I just feel very lost.

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flourdust
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 11:25:02 AM »

I am sure that I am unclear on when to use SET - there are changes that need to be made both at work and at home.  When he is in a good place in his head - he won't listen to me - says he has things under control and when he is in bad place, things spin so quickly out of control, there is no place for SET.

Sometimes and for some people, these techniques just don't work. They aren't magic spells that will work miracles if you just get the wand gestures right, unfortunately. As I've said before ... .you may have to face the truth that this is simply as good as it's going to get. I do see in your posting that you have some more detachment and a lot more control over your reactions -- you've taken yourself out of his cycle of abuse in many ways, and that's fantastic!

Excerpt
I am hesitant to post specific examples - I need to figure out how to write them out without giving too many details.  I have worried for years that in his internet searching he will come across this board and see what I have posted.

Serious question -- what difference would it really make if he did?
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 11:43:30 AM »

Thanks for pointing out that I am doing something right.  I know you are right FD, that there is no magic wand - no miracle that will make things different. I can try to use the tools to help certain situations but I can't expect them to change him. I can not let myself tolerate any of more of his abuse - I can not accept that.  I am finally beginning to see it for what it is.  For so long, I was so afraid that I was unwilling to make a change.  Some of that fear is still there and I do get triggered by his words and it comes to the forefront of my emotions.  I know I need to change.

If he did find out that I have been posting here for years, I know what a deep betrayal it would be to him.  I know that being on this board has saved my life - without it, I don't know how I would have ever survived.  It is also very good for me to read my old posts.  It helps me see what changes I have made especially when I am feeling down and stuck and I don't have any hope.  But I think one of the main things that is holding me back is hope.  I have to let go of my hope and set realistic expectations.  I always told him the day I lose hope, it will be over.  I think I have done a disservice to myself by thinking like that.  I think I am the one who is hurt by it.
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flourdust
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 12:16:30 PM »

If he did find out that I have been posting here for years, I know what a deep betrayal it would be to him.

Sure. And... .? He would rant and rave, tell you he was ending the relationship, call you names, fall into depression and refuse to get out of bed... .? And this would be different how?
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coworkerfriend
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 12:26:58 PM »

You are right -it would make no difference at all.  He behaves that like on a regular basis. He refuses to eat -he refuses to work - he ends it on a regular basis.  He calls his exwife any time he wants to trigger me.  I am ashamed to say that I participate in it all.  I keep it all going.  I accept the apology - I accept the abuse.   I keep thinking if I just do this or that, I can make it better.  My logical brain tells me that I can't do anything.  My emotional brain is so afraid of the relationship really ending.  I have to face facts.

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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 01:11:03 PM »

coworkerfriend-Please take some time to care for yourself. You and I have so much in common with the way we feel stuck in our hope. I am very stubborn when it comes to hope. And it does resonate that the day I lose hope will be the day its over. Like you I am trying to reset my "expectation meter" and look realistically at what the future holds. Everyone I know constantly tells me he is never going to change and logically I know this. So the only one who will change is ME when I completely acknowledge the r/s for how it is.
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donkey2016
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 01:34:46 PM »

I have been following your story for a while since it has many similarities with my own situation (rages when going to car trip for example). I find that my ex BPD boyfriend will also argue against the truth I'm telling him or my side of the situation, however by coming back to the same issues, it seems to sink in anyway. I have been surprised many times and sometimes thought that he was sarcastic, when he's bringing up something I had said and agreeing with that. Now when I have broken up with him, he has FINALLY, taken the step to start therapy. But it might be too late for our relationship.

I admire that you haven't moved together with him so that your children are protected a bit for this situation. Still maybe you should take steps to try to get him out of your company.

What is this SET?

D.
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 02:53:14 PM »

Support-Empathy-Truth

It is a technique to improve communication. I'm not very good at it, as I give support, empathize with how he feels, then speak the truth. At that point he argues with me. Eventually it might sink in.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 03:24:44 PM »

donkey2016,

Here's a link to read about SET, https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/04.htm.

coworker,
SET generally is not useful when your friend is already dysregulated. Try it when he's calmer. Start with small truths, your truths. Things like, "It works best when we solve problems together" or "It really helps me when I know you care about what I say". Can he take those small truths wrong? Probably. I'd say definitely if he's already upset.

The point is, to have a relationship, friendship, coworkership, you need to be able to state how you feel, even in small doses, and SET provides a vehicle that you can do that. There are never any guarantees that he is going to accept, acknowledge or embrace how you feel. Try it on coworkers that are not BPD. Does it work? Build the skill that way maybe before tackling him, and don't try when he is already upset. Just validate and boundary.
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caughtnreleased
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2017, 01:32:01 PM »


Serious question -- what difference would it really make if he did?

This caught my eye. For a long time I was really worried my BPDex might be reading - but... .I've come to realize that, like your friend, my ex couldn't handle even an ounce of truth. I once casually called him obnoxious when he was being... .obnoxious. Well let me tell you THAT did not go over well... .so I think reading these posts would trigger the CR-P out of them... .I don't think they could handle reading these posts or have the self-awareness to realize that their own situation was being described.

Re: I never practiced SET. When I was with him I did a bit of reading up on BPD- and all I did was validate. The thing is... .what he was saying was always valid: his being depressed, his family being really harsh, people doing crazy things, him being self-destructive, hard on himself for past acts. He actually did acknowledge later on that he appreciated that I had just listenned and never judged. As someone else suggested, maybe stop with the truth part. He may see it as being invalidating. Just listen really. I found that quiet validation went very far. No need to build him up, no need for anything. In fact I found that the less I said the more quickly he would calm down and stop. Even when he disagreed with me - I would say that I understood where he came from - and I did. He had every right to hold a different view point than me (even if secretly I caught my mind totally judging him on it and thinking - uh dumbass - Smiling (click to insert in post) ).

The problem always came when HE triggered me... .well that's when all the truth about how I felt and what I thought came out. Woops.   ... .and then we were exes.
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2017, 02:58:25 PM »

Well, that's the thing: sympathy and validation and then stop works for a while, but if you are in a relationship and not telling your truth, it's going to come out with a good dose of resentment built up. That's why it is. It just S.E. Finding a way to communicate your truth is important.
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2017, 09:48:58 PM »

Hmm. But is truth us telling them "our" truth. I find the "truth" part rather difficult... .I'm not sure what it seeks to accomplish and "truth" is always subjective. He was so hypersensitive to any percieved criticism - like a time when he was acting a bit childish and i casually called him obnoxious - anything that puts their actions in question will bring a knee jerk reaction. Is that not the biggest problem with pwBPD is they refuse to even entertain the thought that their actions might be the cause of their problems which then prevents them from making any significant change. If they could accept any form of truth other than their own they probably wouldn't have BPD... .So i guess i just havent understood the truth part of set.
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 08:43:36 AM »

The truth is definitely the tricky part. You hit the nail on the head with "our truth" as opposed to "their truth". My bfwBPD rules his life with "his feelings equal facts". Therefore, that is his truth. My truth, according to him, should be HIS truth, and anything else is subpar. Cue the gaslighting. I have been working on staying more firm with what I know is my truth. All the understanding in the world doesn't help, as his opinion, (his truth) is that if I say I understand, and validate, that means I have to change my behavior and attitudes. I have to agree with him and act upon that. Staying with my own truth gets very difficult when he is pounding away at it, with judgements, opinions and hostility.
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 10:16:17 AM »

Staying with my own truth gets very difficult when he is pounding away at it, with judgements, opinions and hostility.

Completely agree here. My BPDex didn't pound away but simply stating my truth caused him to feel completely annihilated and that would be the end of that - he simply couldn't stand hearing something other than his world view from me especially if it diverged from "You are the most wonderful person in the world". Hearing my truth I think it caused profound anger in him to the point that he simply couldn't stand to even be around me. He couldn't even respond to it. Our breakups weren't even breakups. Just blow-outs, or full on immediate replacement after he would trigger me and I would give him a piece of my "truth".

My BPD mom on the other hand pounded away at my truth, with the quiet help of my father. They continue to have "their" truth - although I have seen a change in them more recently where they will never acknowledge anything to me, but a few weeks after I state my truth, I see them making some small but important adjustments. Definitely a situation that does not involve confrontation, or that allows them not to take it personally, has allowed them to take in what I have said and make changes.
They work on it together - for example I will tell my father that my mother is behaving poorly and rudely. He will deny this to me and play down what she is doing. But then will probably nudge her in a way to a) placate her anger towards me (for having established boundaries), and then b) she will rectify the poor behaviour by showing gratitude for a gift (this is the latest example). So it is starting to work with my parents because a) I am not adamant that they recognize my truth and b) they have eachother to hide behind and protect eachother if my "truth" is too sharp for them, but I don't know how this can work in an intimate relationship.

So to me the truth aspect of it is what is most difficult and problematic in an initmate relationship with a pwBPD.
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2017, 08:11:51 AM »

. Staying with my own truth gets very difficult when he is pounding away at it, with judgements, opinions and hostility.

Very important to end the conversation (by following rules) and leave the door open for a resumption, if "healthier" communications skills are used.

The critical thing is that if there is "pounding"... .there is NO RELATIONSHIP and if there is no pounding the relationship continues (they get the relationship they crave... .and fear... )

The hard thing for nons is they usually want to bring up bad behavior at "inappropriate times" (according to the rules).  Completely understandable to want to do this, as "it" usually just happened.

This is not to suggest at all that the "truth" should never be told.  You really need to be smart about it.

If the goal is to "heal" the relationship, then be wise about timing and content.

If the goal is more separateness... .then speak the truth... .unfiltered.

The critical thing for our own well-being, is that we set the goal... .we drive the r/s.  One of my favorite questions is... ."why hand the keys to a relationship to a disordered person"... .keep the keys in your own pocket.

Then also be kind to yourself, realizing that some days you won't care and you'll toss them the keys.  Sometimes it will work out... .sometimes they'll wreck the "car".  

Wishing you all well today.  Yesterday was big turning point (positive) in my life, I'll post details later.

FF


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