My wife of 8 years left me for the 4th time

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Don't you think the waiting on the divorce papers is yet another control mechanism?   I see a lot of that too -- they will do anything to control a situation.    I bet she sits forcing you to make contact on the matter.    I didn't get that control side of things at first, but I'm seeing that in mine and many others here.  It's about having control over you - no matter what/how. 

Hey there TLC,

You've brought up a very interesting point... one which i told my uBPDexGF in her face, that all she wanted was control. Now that piqued my interest quite abit in terms of the motivation for control. It is, if you put it in the perspective of seeing the world as a "cruel and unkind place where you trust no one" as the presupposition for such motivation.

It was at least for my ex, she couldn't trust anyone. Not her sibling nor her family, she trusted no one. Period. Now if you don't have the ability to trust anyone especially in the context of close relationships, and also probably the lack of what one calls "object constancy" which means they can't really recall who you are previously based on past experiences. Your latest interaction with them determines how they view you, which also intertwines with all the splitting of "black or white". So, if you were a big meanie in your last and latest interaction, you are now considered a bad person.

If you don't know how a person is, you wont be able to give your "trust". Trust is one of the pillars of a stable relationship, without trust, it is almost impossible to have any sense of security or grounding. So, what would you do if you can't develop an emotional connection and trust anyone in the world? The only other form of security you would have is to control every single freaking thing. The is the only way to ensure certainty from their own view point which gives them security. The underlying issue is that sense of deep insecurity which may be have been contributed to childhood trauma and arrested development.

Think in terms of the world view of a little child, and during that time they were not provided warmth, safety and love. They dont know how to approach these things in a "healthy" or "normal" way. The fear of not being in control, or losing control freaks them out, because that might be what they think they have. Some will covertly or overtly seek control. To maintain that fragile sense of security. In reality one knows, that the world doesn't operate like that. Much of what you see, or at least what i've observed in my situation is the sense of losing what they "have", which is a component of abandonment trauma.

This i think is one of the core distortions of the illness which might be the primary motivating factors which presents itself as being "controlling" or "manipulative". To have control over "you" is probably because you might be their "favourite person" or some romantic partner. The worldview of control for BPD might be because when one is knocked off the pedestal of the idealisation phase, there is a high tendency to de-personalise and then be objectified as a "thing"

We are then seen more as objects than as people, and i quote this from psych central "One of the primary psycho-social manifestations of the borderline style is the tendency to objectify others. Follow this: emotional dysregulation, by definition, demands a failure in the ability to understand and/or process emotionality; a failure in the ability to understand and/or process emotions suggests a failure in the ability to develop emotional connection; a lack of emotional connection leads to treating others as "things", not people. The borderline personality thus lives in a world populated by objects, rather than others - objects of love, objects of hate, objects of mirth, objects of rage - always objects, always extremes and never truly connected, whether violent or demure in style."

Here is the link for citation purposes https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200906/blackwhite-interpersonal-relationships-and-borderline-behavior

spero

[spero]

Don't you think the waiting on the divorce papers is yet another control mechanism?   I see a lot of that too -- they will do anything to control a situation.    I bet she sits forcing you to make contact on the matter.    I didn't get that control side of things at first, but I'm seeing that in mine and many others here.  It's about having control over you - no matter what/how. 

Hey there TLC,

You've brought up a very interesting point... one which i told my uBPDexGF in her face, that all she wanted was control. Now that piqued my interest quite abit in terms of the motivation for control. It is, if you put it in the perspective of seeing the world as a "cruel and unkind place where you trust no one" as the presupposition for such motivation.

It was at least for my ex, she couldn't trust anyone. Not her sibling nor her family, she trusted no one. Period. Now if you don't have the ability to trust anyone especially in the context of close relationships, and also probably the lack of what one calls "object constancy" which means they can't really recall who you are previously based on past experiences. Your latest interaction with them determines how they view you, which also intertwines with all the splitting of "black or white". So, if you were a big meanie in your last and latest interaction, you are now considered a bad person.

If you don't know how a person is, you wont be able to give your "trust". Trust is one of the pillars of a stable relationship, without trust, it is almost impossible to have any sense of security or grounding. So, what would you do if you can't develop an emotional connection and trust anyone in the world? The only other form of security you would have is to control every single freaking thing. The is the only way to ensure certainty from their own view point which gives them security. The underlying issue is that sense of deep insecurity which may be have been contributed to childhood trauma and arrested development.

Think in terms of the world view of a little child, and during that time they were not provided warmth, safety and love. They dont know how to approach these things in a "healthy" or "normal" way. The fear of not being in control, or losing control freaks them out, because that might be what they think they have. Some will covertly or overtly seek control. To maintain that fragile sense of security. In reality one knows, that the world doesn't operate like that. Much of what you see, or at least what i've observed in my situation is the sense of losing what they "have", which is a component of abandonment trauma.

This i think is one of the core distortions of the illness which might be the primary motivating factors which presents itself as being "controlling" or "manipulative". To have control over "you" is probably because you might be their "favourite person" or some romantic partner. The worldview of control for BPD might be because when one is knocked off the pedestal of the idealisation phase, there is a high tendency to de-personalise and then be objectified as a "thing"

We are then seen more as objects than as people, and i quote this from psych central "One of the primary psycho-social manifestations of the borderline style is the tendency to objectify others. Follow this: emotional dysregulation, by definition, demands a failure in the ability to understand and/or process emotionality; a failure in the ability to understand and/or process emotions suggests a failure in the ability to develop emotional connection; a lack of emotional connection leads to treating others as "things", not people. The borderline personality thus lives in a world populated by objects, rather than others - objects of love, objects of hate, objects of mirth, objects of rage - always objects, always extremes and never truly connected, whether violent or demure in style."

Here is the link for citation purposes https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200906/blackwhite-interpersonal-relationships-and-borderline-behavior

spero

[Speck]

Don't you think the waiting on the divorce papers is yet another control mechanism? I see a lot of that too -- they will do anything to control a situation. I bet she sits forcing you to make contact on the matter.

Yes, I absolutely think that's what's going on. She abruptly walked out of this marriage a week after Thanksgiving because I simply asked her if she was avoiding me, because... .she was!  She moved out, and six days later, she is EMAILING me divorce papers... .and then... .crickets chirping. She's had puh-lenty of time to file by now, but hasn't.  Childish... .and with her historical impulsivity, she has absolutely torpedoed whatever faith I had in her that we could ever remain married. I am done. Even if her not filing indicates regret on her part, I am done.

I've decided not to prompt her on this matter, and will simply wait until March 5th. If she hasn't filed by then, then, I will.

Can the lawyer just talk to lawyer and leave you out of any contact?   May help... .

Yes. That's exactly how I intended to do it. I don't wish to talk with her, as I don't want her to attempt to recycle me at that point. Not because I'm tempted, mind you. Far from it! I just don't wish to invite drama into my life. She left me with three cats to take care of... .that's enough drama right there.


Thank you so much for your thoughts on the topic, as it's been a real head-scratcher to me.


-Speck

[tlc232]

Spero -

I am digesting this and I see what you are saying --- it isn't as simple as a 4 year old having a tantrum and and holding his breath until you do what he wants (although it has felt like it).   I know this sounds horrible but for me, it is easier to put this into a "I can't help you anymore" phase --- regardless of what it is they have that doesn't work right because I tend to be a fixer... .and it is clear that I will be more depressed and 6 feet under if I try anymore to fix a problem that I'm the only one that sees this.   

When I read things like this, I tend to go to the feeling bad for them (as a whole) because they are not right in the way they think... .BUT... .why then can they see this in other people's relationships and even in their relationships with other people such as people they work with (or work for them).    I can't tell you how many stories I heard about how one of his employees was screwing up their lives by doing "this" and "that".   If you can translate that in other people... .then I tend to throw my "bs" flag because why can't they see it in what they are doing?

I get it - but I don't completely understand it.  I do think it applies, but then I get to that (and maybe it is just in my scenario) how can they comment in a logical way on everyone else's relationships in a manner that makes sense except ours.   

Some days I wonder if I am going to wake up like that child in "Sixth Sense" and find out that all is not as it seems to be in MY world.   That's why I had to step off and figure it out.   If that makes sense.    :/     

In other random thoughts --- we need some more "what the HE**!" emoticons and maybe a rolled eyes one and even a flashing "oh no they didn't!"  to communicate many of our past events with proper emotion!... .haha   

[gearshifted]

Spero -

I am digesting this and I see what you are saying --- it isn't as simple as a 4 year old having a tantrum and and holding his breath until you do what he wants (although it has felt like it).   I know this sounds horrible but for me, it is easier to put this into a "I can't help you anymore" phase --- regardless of what it is they have that doesn't work right because I tend to be a fixer... .and it is clear that I will be more depressed and 6 feet under if I try anymore to fix a problem that I'm the only one that sees this.  

When I read things like this, I tend to go to the feeling bad for them (as a whole) because they are not right in the way they think... .BUT... .why then can they see this in other people's relationships and even in their relationships with other people such as people they work with (or work for them).    I can't tell you how many stories I heard about how one of his employees was screwing up their lives by doing "this" and "that".   If you can translate that in other people... .then I tend to throw my "bs" flag because why can't they see it in what they are doing?

I get it - but I don't completely understand it.  I do think it applies, but then I get to that (and maybe it is just in my scenario) how can they comment in a logical way on everyone else's relationships in a manner that makes sense except ours.    

Some days I wonder if I am going to wake up like that child in "Sixth Sense" and find out that all is not as it seems to be in MY world.   That's why I had to step off and figure it out.   If that makes sense.    :/      

In other random thoughts --- we need some more "what the HE**!" emoticons and maybe a rolled eyes one and even a flashing "oh no they didn't!"  to communicate many of our past events with proper emotion!... .haha    

I stopped trying to make sense of it all a while ago, but for a while it was something I really struggled with. How can the woman who I love, who I am generally bend-over backwards be flipping out on me for THIS?

 It's like, "Yeah Honey, I intentionally lost the coat-check tickets, because I wanted to send you in a rage, watch you storm out of the night club, lock me out of the apt, only to let me right in, and then yell at me for an hour as I repeatedly fall on the sword and beg for forgiveness. Then, without so much as a "Its ok, i know it was an accident, I forgive you" You can change the topic onto something else more friendly and we'll get on and act like none of that ever happened."

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Speck,  I like that you named your new door “Healthy Boundaries”! 

Sorry for all the heart wrenching drama you have been through.  Sounds like you have worked through a lot of issues and are better off for the work you have done.

Side note - three cats?  Really?

[spero]

Hello TLC lets break this down a little

Spero -

 I know this sounds horrible but for me, it is easier to put this into a "I can't help you anymore" phase --- regardless of what it is they have that doesn't work right because I tend to be a fixer... .and it is clear that I will be more depressed and 6 feet under if I try anymore to fix a problem that I'm the only one that sees this.   

I think this is a question we need to ask ourselves honestly, what motivates you to "fix"? I've been in the position of "why am i the only one seeing this too". But i believe the more pertinent question is, what motivates you to fix? I would definitely feel very frustrated, in wanting to get someone to see the "light" of their situation. But even more so, i've found greater liberation in just letting things be as they are by letting go (though im still in the process of doing so)

TLC, my own personal temperament tilts toward the melancholic depressive spectrum with a high inclination to ruminate. I'm not saying it is the same for you, but this was my own processing. I ruminated on the loss, it was my brain trying to make desperate sense of a situation that doesn't. If you are heading down that highway of endless rumination, just don't stay there too long. It will cost you even more the longer you remain there.

When I read things like this, I tend to go to the feeling bad for them (as a whole) because they are not right in the way they think... .BUT... .why then can they see this in other people's relationships and even in their relationships with other people such as people they work with (or work for them).    I can't tell you how many stories I heard about how one of his employees was screwing up their lives by doing "this" and "that".   If you can translate that in other people... .then I tend to throw my "bs" flag because why can't they see it in what they are doing?

I get it - but I don't completely understand it.  I do think it applies, but then I get to that (and maybe it is just in my scenario) how can they comment in a logical way on everyone else's relationships in a manner that makes sense except ours.   

TLC, im afraid i don't have the answer for this either. It is just its for your ex-partner just as it was for my uBPDexGF, she could point out all the issues that other people had, heck she could possibly even be perhaps a good counsellor, but when it came to one's own inter personal issues, the cookie crumbles. She was sharp and keen in offering solutions for issues with other people, but not her own.

I humbly suggest that it is better to not rationalise the above rationale or thought process simply because we don't share their worldview, and probably a rather distorted one perhaps. Do whats better for own self improvement. As much as i couldn't face up to my reality earlier, the truth is - you didn't cause it, you therefore can't fix it and you can't cure it.

There is no room for reasoning, or at least mine certainly couldn't reason at my level. She existed in her own authoritarian bubble, it was her way or the highway. And unless a person has reached a point of wanting to seek help, acknowledging that he or she is contributing to the failure of the relationship. Unless they want to improve their lives, nothing one does will make a difference. This really is the hard reality of the situation.

Don't get me wrong, i'm compassionate towards people who have to live with their BPD illness, i wished my ex would get better, but as we've seen many in this sub-forum. Even after years of begging, trying different various means to the point of exhausting solutions. Nothing worked. People and human nature, regardless having BPD or not, it is a the point where we sincerely and honestly acknowledge that we have a problem, then we can start leading with it. My uBPDexGF might have said that she has a problem, but she was certainly comfortable where she was with the size of the problem.

I like this video by Jordan Peterson about difficult people, this helped to ground my reality about being a "fixer". One of the best 5 minutes i've spent on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCLfw4RjXE0

Some days I wonder if I am going to wake up like that child in "Sixth Sense" and find out that all is not as it seems to be in MY world.   That's why I had to step off and figure it out.   If that makes sense.    :/     

I don't know what that actually translates to the experience you're trying to convey. In simple terms, it's like waking up from a nightmare of sorts, or getting unplugged from the matrix, if you've watched the trilogy. You might have suddenly been throw into serious disarray, and the present reality before you while it is real, doesn't make sense to one's brain and i'm struggling with that too myself. My opinion on this if, i get what you're trying to convey is - that the heart is still catching up to the acceptance of the present state of things. It is certainly healthy, as our brain tries to "accept" and integrate our present reality, that is where we move towards a new normal and begin rebuilding our own lives.

Those are my thoughts on this, hope i didn't run off the tangent of what you were trying to say.

Spero.

[Speck]

Hey, Spero!  You seem to have a good grasp of what the internal mental landscape looks like for someone who suffers from BPD.  Some choice nuggets are below:

Think in terms of the worldview of a little child, and during that time they were not provided warmth, safety, and love. They don't know how to approach these things in a "healthy" or "normal" way.

In analyzing my uBPDw's behavior over the span of 10 years, I have also concluded that this is true.

The worldview of control for BPD might be because when one is knocked off the pedestal of the idealisation phase, there is a high tendency to be de-personalised and then be objectified as a "thing."

So true. That's where I sit right now. And, strangely, I'm fine with it... .as I see no way out of this cycle beyond divorce because my uBPDw would never in a million years consider that she suffers from a personality disorder, and would never seek DBT, or any kind of therapy, on her own.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. Everybody's input helps.


-Speck

[Speck]

Hey there, tlc232!

I know this sounds horrible but for me, it is easier to put this into a "I can't help you anymore" phase --- regardless of what it is they have that doesn't work right because I tend to be a fixer... .and it is clear that I will be more depressed and 6 feet under if I try anymore to fix a problem that I'm the only one that sees this.

This is exactly how I feel as well.  The helper ran out of helping... .

So... .I've decided I'm going to allow my uBPDw to experience what consequences look like, not to punish her, but to help, not only me, but also her. That's the only way that I can help her at this point.

Some days I wonder if I am going to wake up like that child in "Sixth Sense" and find out that all is not as it seems to be in MY world. That's why I had to step off and figure it out. If that makes sense. :/

It does.  

In other random thoughts --- we need some more "what the HE**!" emoticons and maybe a rolled eyes one and even a flashing "oh no they didn't!" to communicate many of our past events with proper emotion!... .haha

Well, there is always Mr. Barfy:  


-Speck

[Speck]

Hello, Mustbeabetterway!

Hi Speck,  I like that you named your new door “Healthy Boundaries”!

Yes, I like to think of "Healthy Boundaries" as the password for coming into my home. The door even has a cool, little speakeasy door which I can open to see who's on my front porch. My buddies who come over know that I'm gonna ask for the password through the speakeasy, and they always give it to me, and we have a chuckle. It's fun.

Sorry for all the heart wrenching drama you have been through.  Sounds like you have worked through a lot of issues and are better off for the work you have done.

Well, having a good T helps, and also tuning in here on a daily basis helps. There's a lot of good point of views and perspective here to keep my mind busy.

Side note - three cats?  Really?

Yes. My uBPDw manipulated me into sending our kid off to boarding school, so that's where she is. And then, she just abruptly leaves me with our three cats, cats she once professed to, "love soo much!" I love them, too, and, currently, two of them are in my lap sleeping on top of the other, and the third one is warming my feet. They'll be fine, but I must say, three cats is quite a triangle. A triangle with claws.


-Speck

[I Am Redeemed]

Hey y'all,

Love the posts, guys. Some really insightful things have been said here:

When I read things like this, I tend to go to the feeling bad for them (as a whole) because they are not right in the way they think... .BUT... .why then can they see this in other people's relationships and even in their relationships with other people such as people they work with (or work for them).    I can't tell you how many stories I heard about how one of his employees was screwing up their lives by doing "this" and "that".   If you can translate that in other people... .then I tend to throw my "bs" flag because why can't they see it in what they are doing?

I get it - but I don't completely understand it.  I do think it applies, but then I get to that (and maybe it is just in my scenario) how can they comment in a logical way on everyone else's relationships in a manner that makes sense except ours.    

I personally think it may have to do with an inability to self-reflect. It's too painful. PwBPD use projection when they can't handle a painful emotion (i.e. guilt, shame, etc.). I think perhaps they can assess someone else's situation fairly accurately, because there is no personal emotion tied to it, no emotion against which they have to use defense mechanisms.
I have caught myself doing this, however. I have had someone come to me with advice about protecting their child from the other parent in the r/s, and I without hesitation told this person what I ultimately should have already done for myself. In fact, I told myself to take my own advice when I decided to leave. I realized that I was doing the opposite of what I had advised someone else to do. I could see their situation so clearly, but not my own.

Speck- I also love the Healthy Boundaries door. What a tangible reminder. Also... .I feel for you on the cat drama. After I left uBPDh and moved out of the house, I drove for 25 miles with six cats in the car. Loose. Because I couldn't fit the kennel in my friend's car. And it was like   and then   and then  .

Some more emoticons would be fun.

 And then, she just abruptly leaves me with our three cats, cats she once professed to, "love soo much!" I love them, too, and, currently, two of them are in my lap sleeping on top of the other, and the third one is warming my feet. They'll be fine, but I must say, three cats is quite a triangle. A triangle with claws.


-Speck

As long as it's not a Karpman Drama Triangle with claws  

I kind of think the whole divorce-paper-email-thing might be just a big dramatic play for attention. Maybe she thinks you will beg and plead and be at her mercy. Maybe that's why she didn't officially file... .she's either waiting for you to throw yourself at her feet, or file yourself, thereby becoming the "bad guy". Idk. I have just seen so many dramatic tactics over the years, always attention-seeking, and never with any empathy or concern for anyone else who might be affected by the "crazy."

It sounds like you know what you want, however. That is important, and should make it easier to detach. The detaching-but-still-conflcted feelings really suck.

Blessings and peace to you,

Redeemed

[Speck]

Hello, Spero and tlc232:

I think this is a question we need to ask ourselves honestly, what motivates you to "fix"? I've been in the position of "why am i the only one seeing this too". But i believe the more pertinent question is, what motivates you to fix?

Yes, I think that Spero makes a valid point here.  Is fixing just in our natures, as I've come to believe. Or, is fixing just another way to meet our secondary needs for attachment, albeit an unhealthy approach? Lots to ponder, there... .

I like this video by Jordan Peterson about difficult people, this helped to ground my reality about being a "fixer". One of the best 5 minutes i've spent on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCLfw4RjXE0

I watched this video, and I think that Jordon Peterson makes a lot of worthwhile points in five minutes. Indeed, worth my time. But again, Jordan Peterson usually is.


-Speck

[Speck]

Hello, gearshifted!

Then, without so much as an "Its ok, i know it was an accident, I forgive you" You can change the topic onto something else more friendly and we'll get on and act like none of that ever happened."

Wow. I experienced 10 whole years of this kind of stuff. The changing of topics. The pretending that she didn't just light me up only to wake up and see she had no recall of the incident. The way she NEVER apologized for anything.

I know what you mean, bro. You are not alone. No doubt, countless others are nodding their collective heads right now.

Thanks for writing.  Your post makes me feel less alone and validates my own experience.


-Speck

[Speck]

Hello, again, I Am Redeemed!

I personally think it may have to do with an inability to self-reflect. It's too painful. PwBPD use projection when they can't handle a painful emotion (i.e. guilt, shame, etc.).

I think you are right. My uBPDw absolutely, positively has no self-awareness that I've ever seen, except on TWO occasions when we were dating: One time, she told me, "You would not have liked me when I was in my 20s. I was too immature for you." And, once, while dating, she told me, "You are the most principled person I have ever met. You are too good for me."

At the time, I assured her that the above could not possibly be true... .tried to make her feel better.  But, little did I know, that she was actually being honest about herself, and was trying to tell me something about herself that I should know.

I never saw that side of her again.

Speck- I also love the Healthy Boundaries door. What a tangible reminder.

Yes. The work buddy that I have known for 17 years still comes over, is a true friend, and was my best man at our wedding.  He knows what I've been through.  When he comes over, he insists on giving me the password, as he finds it hilarious.

Also... .I feel for you on the cat drama. After I left uBPDh and moved out of the house, I drove for 25 miles with six cats in the car. Loose. Because I couldn't fit the kennel in my friend's car. And it was like   and then   and then  .

Oh, you need a hug.  Here:   

As long as it's not a Karpman Drama Triangle with claws  

No, but close. One of them always feels left out.

I kind of think the whole divorce-paper-email-thing might be just a big dramatic play for attention. Maybe she thinks you will beg and plead and be at her mercy. Maybe that's why she didn't officially file... .she's either waiting for you to throw yourself at her feet, or file yourself, thereby becoming the "bad guy". Idk.

You may be right about her needing to make me into the "bad guy" by having me ultimately file.  Which is fine, as it's not true in any realm of reality except hers. Her parents have both told me that they think she is trying to "find herself" and that they both hope that I am able to "move on." These are their words.

So, if filing makes me the "bad guy," there's nothing that I can do about it. I have given her plenty of time to do it herself. One thing is for sure: I do not need nor want to remain married to her, so it's inevitable. We're getting divorced.

It sounds like you know what you want, however. That is important and should make it easier to detach.

It does.  It took a mountain of pain to get here, however.

The detaching-but-still-conflicted feelings really suck.

Yes, I was there the THIRD time she walked out on our marriage (2015). And. yes, it does suck. Now, I'm simply detaching. It sucks, less.


Blessings and peace to YOU, I Am Redeemed! Thank you for your thoughtful comments.


-Speck

[gearshifted]

I think you are right. My uBPDw absolutely, positively has no self-awareness that I've ever seen

I used to try to have these discussions with my ex, who was diagnosed, and they always failed miserably. I used to try to give her the analogy, if you walk around down a crowded city street, and you punch a random person in the face, they aren't an ass for hitting you back... they're defending themselves. So I used to say, you essentially walk around the house and verbally punch me in the face over and over, and when I finally respond to it in anything besides an inert way, you tell me that I'm acting like an a-hole.

[Speck]

Hello again, gearshifted!

So I used to say, you essentially walk around the house and verbally punch me in the face over and over, and when I finally respond to it in anything besides an inert way, you tell me that I'm acting like an a-hole.

Yes. Everything is fine until you start to defend yourself. It's very frustrating to realize that you're "breaking the rules" by confronting her. And, furthermore, it's very frustrating to be made to think that you don't have feelings, or if you do, they don't matter. My uBPDw was a master of minimizing the things that I would tell her that was bothering me. It would always just end on a note of her concluding that I was too "whiny" or some such. Nothing ever got resolved.

I understand you loud and clear, my friend.


-Speck

[I Am Redeemed]

I used to try to have these discussions with my ex, who was diagnosed, and they always failed miserably. I used to try to give her the analogy, if you walk around down a crowded city street, and you punch a random person in the face, they aren't an a-hole for hitting you back... they're defending themselves. So I used to say, you essentially walk around the house and verbally punch me in the face over and over, and when I finally respond to it in anything besides an inert way, you tell me that I'm acting like an a-hole.

WOW I so know what that is like. UBPDh would basically word-vomit all over me, then, if I in any way retaliated or defended myself or just flat-out told him to stop it, he would tell me I was the one with the "attitude", the "animosity", the "hatred and resentment", the "mental issues."

Once he even "diagnosed" me as being a narcissist. He read all about it on some psychology website, and told me that I fit every single one of the characteristic criteria, and he knew he was right because I was so selfish all the time.
I suggested that maybe he should take another look, and see if he couldn't see himself in some of that criteria.
He said "That's exactly what it said a narcissist would say," and walked off, secure in the knowledge that he had proven himself right to the selfish, self-centered, narcissistic witch who persecuted him so horribly.

Narcissist, indeed.

And that, gentleman, was the level of self-awareness I got to deal with. Non-existent. Made me feel like I was in a funhouse with a bunch of crazy mirrors, and my uBPDh couldn't see his own true reflection, or even find the real me because he kept being deceived by all the distorted images.
Maybe that is how they see us. Kind of like us, but distorted and twisted. It's sad.
 
Good luck to you Speck,

-Redeemed

[Speck]

Much like yourself, Redeemed, I think that gearshifted has highlighted a common situation that a lot of us Nons deal with day in and day out with our pwBPD. It's not a rare thing at all to sit before the one we love and be treated in this manner. No, it's just Tuesday. Wednesday will be much the same.

I hear your frustration in recounting that all the self-awareness that your uBPDh has is mowing you down with false accusations and telling you that you have mental issues. It's all projection, of course, and designed to hurt and deflect blame. I'm so sorry that you had to experience that.

One exercise that I consciously do when I get down about it is this: When I look back on things and can see it from the angle of being treated this way by a wounded child, it helps. It also helps me to emotionally lovingly detach from my uBPDw. Why? I don't wish to remain married to a wounded child.

Hugs, all around!


-Speck

[Enabler]

WOW I so know what that is like. UBPDh would basically word-vomit all over me, then, if I in any way retaliated or defended myself or just flat-out told him to stop it, he would tell me I was the one with the "attitude", the "animosity", the "hatred and resentment", the "mental issues."

Once he even "diagnosed" me as being a narcissist. He read all about it on some psychology website, and told me that I fit every single one of the characteristic criteria, and he knew he was right because I was so selfish all the time.
I suggested that maybe he should take another look, and see if he couldn't see himself in some of that criteria.

He said "That's exactly what it said a narcissist would say," and walked off, secure in the knowledge that he had proven himself right to the selfish, self-centered, narcissistic witch who persecuted him so horribly.

Narcissist, indeed.

When my W told me she wanted a divorce back in Mar17 (no divorce petition YET)... .I asked why she wanted this. She said that I was abusive and controlling. She said that I was abusive to the children as well (both totally unfounded). I'm not sure what she actually expected my reaction to be having just been accused of being a child abuser but I was furious... .

... .winding forward to legal mediation in Nov17 where she is asked to come up with wording for the divorce petition (she hasn't yet had time to do), one of the items was "On telling Enabler that I wanted a divorce in Mar17 he became very aggressive, angry and threatening following me round the house raging at me".

Her and her friends shared NPD diagnosis for several months and despite having seen this on various different electronic comms mediums she denied it.

[gearshifted]

Once he even "diagnosed" me as being a narcissist. He read all about it on some psychology website, and told me that I fit every single one of the characteristic criteria, and he knew he was right because I was so selfish all the time.
I suggested that maybe he should take another look, and see if he couldn't see himself in some of that criteria.
He said "That's exactly what it said a narcissist would say," and walked off, secure in the knowledge that he had proven himself right to the selfish, self-centered, narcissistic witch who persecuted him so horribly.

Narcissist, indeed.

Nor are you alone in this regard either. My ex used to project and call me a Narcissist and tell me to "get off my high horse" when I would very simply point out of the flaws in her child logic.

[tlc232]

I AM NOT ALONE!   Thank you everyone for making my morning!   I know it sounds awful, but getting up and reading other accounts of such similar things as what you just went through for 14 years is like getting up to a round of "you are not crazy!" and such credible reminders of what my day today would be like had I not changed all the locks and said enough... .it is NOT me.   

[Speck]

I AM NOT ALONE!   Thank you everyone for making my morning!   I know it sounds awful, but getting up and reading other accounts of such similar things as what you just went through for 14 years is like getting up to a round of "you are not crazy!" and such credible reminders of what my day today would be like had I not changed all the locks and said enough... .it is NOT me.

No, unfortunately, you are not alone tlc232.

Enabler, I Am Redeemed, gearshifted, Mustbeabetterway, myself, and countless other souls know exactly what you've been through. In our real lives with family members, church folks, our kids, work peeps, even our own therapists, it is sometimes hard to find complete understanding anywhere else but here. Why? An anonymous online forum is the only place where this type of disclosure is entirely appropriate. I don't know what people did in the Middle Ages... .

That's why I'm grateful for bpdfamily as an outlet. It dispels the isolation.

And... .someone's always glad you're here. Like me.

Hang in there.


-Speck

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi tlc232, no you are not alone.  It is affirming to see that others have and are struggling with many of the same issues.  Many times, I have found comfort in the encouragement and support I have found in this community.

But, even better than that, in my opinion, is that others are sharing how they are able to get better.  What works, what doesn’t work, how they have handled or
approached similar situations. 

It seems significant that not only do our partners have similar traits, actions, etc.  But, there are also commonalities among the “nons”.  I suspect I have lessons to learn about my own behaviors and how some of my own traits kept me in an unhealthy relationship.

[heartandwhole]

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