Husband is big on threats.

[AskingWhy]

My uBPD/uNPD H is big on threats.  (This has changed in the last few years since I changed my communication style with him and stopped engaging.  It still hurts, though, when H dysregulates.)

At first, it was threat of all kinds, mostly of him leaving me or divorcing me.  Of course, this was amid drill-instructor-shouting at me withing inches of my face, holes punched in the walls and broken furniture, name-calling, etc.:

"I am going to leave you, and take half of what you own!" (I am a partner in a family business that is in trust.  Nice try, hubby.)

"When I leave you, no man will ever want you!  You're an old hag and sickly!"  (I clean up much better than him and am trim and fit.)

"You won't get half of this house when I divorce you!  I will burn it to the ground before you get any of it!"  (We both have our names on the title.)

I have started to side-step this behavior early on, and just let him have his tantrum.  Sometimes I mirror his body language and it really gets to him.

Deep down inside, H is horribly insecure.  His F is uNPD and mother was enabling.  She herself was the NPD feed for her husband.  FIL used what money he had from low-skilled jobs to fun his hobbies of hunting and fishing; the family lived in poverty.  FIL was stingy to his W and children.

When I look at H's FOO, I really pity him and it's hard for him to hurt me now.  It is researched, however, that for a split-second, passive aggressive and even overtly hostile behaviours can provoke a cerebral reaction to the hostility and it's painful.

We can use all of the tools here of SET, not JADE, and other tools, but he effects of our partners' pathologies are impacting us on some level.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey AW, Threats are a form of F-O-G (fear, obligation & guilt), which is the three-pronged pitchfork that those w/BPD use to manipulate a Non.  I used to be quite susceptible to FOG.  How are you handling it when you sense a threat?  If you can recognize it when it's happening, and you seem able to do that, you are in a better position to decline to react in knee-jerk fashion.  Instead, I suggest you step back and determine whether you really need to respond.  Usually, it's just learned behavior that the pwBPD has found effective in terms of getting his/her way.  I suggest that you call his bluff by declining to respond, and then see what happens.  Let us know how it goes.

LuckyJim

[Mutt]

Hi AskingWhy,

I agree with LuckyJim. I can relate with that feeling the best way that I could describe it is it felt like my stomach was tied in knots and I felt keyed up. I used to react to her I stopped being scared of her, BPD is an emotional dysregulation disorder my ex was like a big kid throwing a tantrum an adult doing that is scary I stopped reacting to it.

[Cmjo]

 for a split-second, passive aggressive and even overtly hostile behaviours can provoke a cerebral reaction to the hostility and it's painful.

We can use all of the tools here of SET, not JADE, and other tools, but he effects of our partners' pathologies are impacting us on some level.

Yes thats the million dollar question on this board, how much pain can we tolerate while trying to dodge their rages and soothing the screaming child inside them?

I am learning not to react to the threats, I used to react and went crazy myself. And keeping calm is helping me see things clearer. You seem to have really conquered the fact of it getting to you.

Are you in counselling?

[AskingWhy]

Yes, Cmjo, I am in counseling for myself.  H and I went to marriage counseling with an LCSW who totally missed the mark.

The counselor was eating out of H's hand after only one session alone with him. Those who know about abuse (verbal and physical) DO NOT recommend marriage counseling (as a couple) for both parties.  I recall I was weeping in session, and I shouted at how hurt I was.  The counselor (remember, she is a professional) stood up, shouted at me, chastised me, pointed a finger at me and snarled, "You don't shout in this office!  Is that clear?  If you don't get a grip on yourself, you will lose this man who loves you!"

Wow, counselor!  Thanks for nothing and making things worse.  Another time, we went to another counselor and H gave me an ultimatum that was unreasonable.  I refused to concede, so H got up and left in the middle of the session, calming stating to the counselor that I was not willing to work on the relationship and I was wasting his time.  After that, I apologized to the counselor, who was also shocked, and left the session.  I found H in the car seething with rage waiting for me.  All the way home in the car, H verbally abused me and said how much I was wasting his time and the counselor's time, and what a worthless human being I was, how stupid he was for staying married to me, how I just couldn't get my act together, etc.

pwBPD and also NPD have a way of toying with therapists and this was a clear example.  They have a way of making the Non look the like crazy person.  When I told H I did not want to return to counseling, H only used this against me.  "You see?  You don't want things to get better between the two of us!  You don't want to take the advice of the counselor.  You are just a know-it-all, aren't you?"

Lucky Jim and Mutt, now that I understand the dynamics of H's FOO and how he emotionally functions, I know how to respond--which usually means disengaging and not responding at all.  If H tells me he wants to divorce me, I calmly say, "OK.  It's a no-fault state.  Do what you want."

The 20 years of marriage have brought me to a place where I can deal with the rages and threats.  I know H suffers from the hollow-shell of a personality one sees in pwBPD.  It's very sad, but I was not made to be his punching bag.  I try to understand his sad childhood and how his FOO made him this way, but who knows?  Someday, I may reach my limit of tolerance. 



 

[pearlsw]

We can use all of the tools here of SET, not JADE, and other tools, but he effects of our partners' pathologies are impacting us on some level.

Hi AskingWhy?

Can you talk about this a bit more please? What effect is this having on you? How are you holding up?

I know in my own "current" relationship I've felt more despair and sadness than I've ever felt from a partner. On the other hand, as much as his stuff damages my life, I'm also trying to use this experience to deepen my insights into myself and find new paths to personal growth. Honestly without his massive issues, I likely would not have taken the time to work on myself so much at this juncture. Perhaps in some way I will come out of this better off, in the big picture of life, in the long run. Trying to be hopeful!  

take care, pearl.

[formflier]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Have you attempted to use boundaries to protect yourself from the threats?  I ask, because I am firm in my belief that boundaries are the number 1 tool/reason that my relationship is calmer today.

FF

[Lucky Jim]

I understand the dynamics of H's FOO and how he emotionally functions, I know how to respond--which usually means disengaging and not responding at all.  If H tells me he wants to divorce me, I calmly say, "OK.  It's a no-fault state.  Do what you want."

Like what you're saying, AskingWhy.  Love your response to his threat of divorce.  LJ

[Cat Familiar]

I'm becoming more immune to the BPD nastiness and as a result, there's less of it. That said, this BPD husband is BPD-lite, quite unlike my first husband, who was BPD on steroids.

What I've noticed in getting to this phase is sort of a world-weariness, like "Oh F* here's that sh!t again... ."  I have lost a ton of respect for him, even though I know he has a disorder. At the same time, he's very intelligent and is able to be socially appropriate with people with whom he wants to impress, so I know he has a certain amount of self control.

I do care about him and at times I feel genuine love for him, but had I known the full extent of his personality disorder, I doubt that I would have been as smitten with him as I was in the beginning.

I feel rather disengaged at times, kind of like watching someone's kid at the grocery store having a tantrum when he's been refused a sugary treat. It's kinda like I'm telling myself, "Not my problem." But it is my problem in that I have to respond in a compassionate way to derail further amplification of the dysfunctional behavior. So then I'm acting, and having dealt with pwBPD my whole life, I not only have a great poker face, I'm a very good actress as well.

While I'm validating and using the tools, an internal snarky part of me is watching and taking notes, keeping me smiling compassionately on the outside, while entertaining a very nasty commentary inside. It's how I roll. I'm no Mother Teresa and I don't suffer fools. But at the same time, no one really needs to know what's going on in my head and if my self-joking is allowing me to be a kinder person externally, so be it.

[AskingWhy]

I'm becoming more immune to the BPD nastiness and as a result, there's less of it. That said, this BPD husband is BPD-lite, quite unlike my first husband, who was BPD on steroids.

What I've noticed in getting to this phase is sort of a world-weariness, like "Oh F* here's that sh!t again... ."  I have lost a ton of respect for him, even though I know he has a disorder. At the same time, he's very intelligent and is able to be socially appropriate with people with whom he wants to impress, so I know he has a certain amount of self control.

I do care about him and at times I feel genuine love for him, but had I known the full extent of his personality disorder, I doubt that I would have been as smitten with him as I was in the beginning.

I feel rather disengaged at times, kind of like watching someone's kid at the grocery store having a tantrum when he's been refused a sugary treat. It's kinda like I'm telling myself, "Not my problem." But it is my problem in that I have to respond in a compassionate way to derail further amplification of the dysfunctional behavior. So then I'm acting, and having dealt with pwBPD my whole life, I not only have a great poker face, I'm a very good actress as well.

While I'm validating and using the tools, an internal snarky part of me is watching and taking notes, keeping me smiling compassionately on the outside, while entertaining a very nasty commentary inside. It's how I roll. I'm no Mother Teresa and I don't suffer fools. But at the same time, no one really needs to know what's going on in my head and if my self-joking is allowing me to be a kinder person externally, so be it.

Cat Familiar, I think the apathy stage is the beginning of a long end in a relationship with a pwBPD.  I now deliberately disengage when H melts down. If he trashes the kitchen by breaking dishes and sending food all over the place, I quietly remove the pets and the grandchildren from the area and let him clean the mess himself.  (In the past, I would be reduced to weeping and cleaning up the mess.)  Then I go to another part of the house to occupy myself.   If H leaves the house after his food tantrum, I leave the mess there until he cleans it up.  I only clean the areas needed to prepare food for the children, myself and pets, but I leave his own mess for him to clean up.   

[formflier]

  but I leave his own mess for him to clean up.   

I'm so sorry that it has come to this, yet I applaud you for not rescuing and fixing.

How long does it normally take him to get around to cleaning it up.

FF

[Red5]

AskingWhy wrote:

Cat Familiar, I think the apathy stage is the beginning of a long end in a relationship with a pwBPD. 

Yes, I can certainly relate, after you have been trying for a long time, and the tools seem to be quite worn out and you feel so worn down all the time, that thing called “apathy” does set in, you just plain start to not care anymore.

Sad... .

So you can feel it, your instinct and gut tell you, the end is coming, and things are going to change, and be different, like gravity, it’s going to follow a course for which there is no deviation.

Red5

[AskingWhy]

FF, my H usually will start his clean up within an hour when I don't touch his mess.  Sometimes he leaves the house in a rage and comes back in an hour or two.  He will wordlessly start cleaning up on his return.  As far as I am concerned, H needs to know I will NOT clean the results of his rage.  My priority is to keep the children and pets from any broken glass or plastic.

Red5, my decline is so slow, again, that one day I may wake up and tell myself, "No more."  No more begging, no more "talking it out," no more using SET.  I will just say quietly and without emotion (at that point there will be none), "I am filing for divorce."

[Red5]

AskingWhy,

I note that as apathy makes it self known in the relationship, marraige; the empathy may start to disappear.

As we have seen written, as a grow in our angst towards the supposed abusive nature of the BPD behaviors, we recognize that we are continuously rescueing ie’ even enabling, so that stops as apathy slowing replaces empathy.

Maybe an example; a drunk may fall down, we feel sorry, and obliged to try and help him up again, but when they fight us off and call us names, after a while, we may just let them lie their on the ground; ie’ we stop rescueing, and cleaning up after.

Slowly the heart hardens I guess, how many times do we tolerate being called names and being compared to past ex’s and told we are lower than whatever, told we have ruined their lives and that if theyed have it to do over that they would not ever be with us in the first place... .ugh, talk about mirroring or projecting.

Yes, just going through the motions now, no more JADE, no more SET, slowly the life support is removed as the “non” begins to realize that this is a never ending pattern,

No more recycle, the love bomb is now a dud... .

Red5

[formflier]

 As far as I am concerned, H needs to know I will NOT clean the results of his rage.  

  "I am filing (have filed) for divorce."

Solids boundaries  and good job on consistency.  Good job on giving him space to sort out his own stuff.


My only nuance is that I'm not a big fan of threats.  :)on't tell him what you will do... .tell him what you have done.  

See the difference.?

FF

[Red5]

Solids boundaries  and good job on consistency.  Good job on giving him space to sort out his own stuff.

My only nuance is that I'm not a big fan of threats.  :)on't tell him what you will do... .tell him what you have done.  

See the difference.?

I would add, be completely dead cold and honest in your responses, and then hold the boundary, “this relationship/marraige has become unsustainable for me, and things are going to change.”, and then ignore the blowback.

Empathy turned to apathy.

Red5

[AskingWhy]

I have been quiet for some time here.  Things were going well for uBPD/uNPD H and me.  We have some meaningful conversations, and apparently some understanding.

Then it exploded this evening.  H has just been diagnosed with a chronic medical issue.  Nothing serious but can be managed with medication.  (I have the same disorder and am well managed .)

H has been in denial for weeks about the diagnosis and has resisted getting on medication and now feels worse and worse.  NPDs often think of themselves as eternal youths.  His NPD F does not think he is 80-something and once asked a woman of 50 out on a date.  It is hard for my H to accept that he is getting older and health issues will arise.

I have medical issues that prevent me from driving at times, and I must depend on my family for transportation.  H resents this enormously.  At one time, he raged at me on the way home after I had a medical procedure, parked the car in the middle of the street and left the car--and me in the passenger seat--to oncoming traffic.  I frantically tried to get out of the passenger seat so I could at least kerb the car in my condition.

I finally e-mailed him a link on health issues and treatment and he finally had to admit he had the condition with many of the symptoms.  Then he looked at me with rage and accusation, "And with your illness, how can I depend on you if I need help?"  It caught me off guard.

This is so BPD/NPD.  (The onset of the illness for me was vastly worse than for him.  I could barely walk.  He still walks and exercises.)

I showed my concern and support for him and I expected a sincere thanks.  Instead, it was all about him and how useless I am to him.  Then he proceeded to full-on rage.  He screamed at me drill sergeant fashion and I laughed in his face.  Rather than waiting for him to withhold affection from me by leaving our bed to sleep on the couch, I told him to take his things to the living room and sleep on the couch.

I could not help myself.  I raged back, blamed his NPD father for his BPD.  H threatened some vague violence to something unpleasant for me.  He snarled that he was waiting for an apology.  Again, I laughed at him.

Poor, pathetic man.  He is aging and he does not like it.  

Years ago, at the onset of my medical disorder (I was feeling very unwell and unable to work), H snarled at me as I begged him to take me to the doctor for more help and diagnosis.  H hollered, ":)rive yourself!" (when I obviously couldn't) and, "I hope for your sake that you have this disorder!"  Well, well, well.  

Now the shoe is on the other foot.  People who are well look down on the infirm and sick.  They think they will be young and healthy forever.

[formflier]

Sounds like a painful day and evening at your house.   

How are you doing today?

Given the new diagnosis, what are your goals for the relationship?  Where do you want to take it?

FF

[AskingWhy]

Sounds like a painful day and evening at your house.    

How are you doing today?

Given the new diagnosis, what are your goals for the relationship?  Where do you want to take it?

FF

Thank you for the reply, FF.      I am well.

As you are former military/aviator, sometimes the flight plan/mission does not go as you want it to--you need to do something/divert to somewhere else:  pattern too full/weather too bad, fuel leak/engine light, etc.     Plan your flight and fly your plan does not work in the instability with a spouse with BPD.

You check your kneeboard and figure out what to do while still at the controls--and keep moving ahead.  

That is what I am doing.  I know my H is totally out of control when he dysregulates.  (Breaks objects, punches walls, swears and name-calls, threatens divorce, etc.)  H is too terrified and in denial to enter therapy.  His FOA is a trainwreck, especially his elderly father.  H was close to his mother, but she died two years ago.

SO--I swiftly recovered, though I lost some altitude, but am flying level now!  I will contact others (TRACON? Tower? Others out there?) and ask for guidance.  (I am consulting my therapist and some friends!)

My self-esteem, so low for so many years, is now healthy.  I will not be cowed with insults and threats, and I know exactly the cowering, frightened man my H is.  I care for him and feel sorry for him, and want to help him, but I refuse to allow him to make me his doormat, punching bag or dart board.

I will see him at the end of the workday and see his demeanour.  His pouting might well be over, or he will continue his emotional sanctions against me.  I will have to wait and see.  If H wants my advice to manage his health, he will now have to ask nicely.

[Lucky Jim]

I know my H is totally out of control when he dysregulates.  (Breaks objects, punches walls, swears and name-calls, threatens divorce, etc.)  H is too terrified to enter therapy.

Exactly the same with my BPDxW, AskingWhy.  She left a trail of broken objects and damage to the walls and doors in her wake!  I had to duck when a wine bottle was headed my way!  I don't mean to make light of your problems, because I know how incredibly stressful they are.

What are you doing to take care of yourself and recharge your batteries?

LuckyJim