Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
June 22, 2021, 05:56:25 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
99
Could it be BPD
BPDFamily.com Production
Listening to shame
Brené Brown, PhD
What is BPD?
Blasé Aguirre, MD
What BPD recovery looks like
Documentary
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: She broke my heart and has left scars on my psyche which I feel will never heal  (Read 3526 times)
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« on: April 13, 2018, 12:57:07 AM »

This post was split from Origin Topic, as it is a worthwhile topic for separate discussion

Harri,

I could not agree more with your comment on intent.  Try to forgive them, for they know not what they do.

My love and I had been together a year.  We had fallen quickly, madly and deeply in love.  :)uring our time together I was unaware of BPD -she had been misdiagnosed as a high functioning schizophrenic and I had accepted at face value what she had told me.

After beginning our realtionship she stopped cutting herself and the voices she heard under duress ceased.  I hoped having a supportive and caring mate would give her what she needed to begin to heal.  She was incredibly intelligent and a very gifted artist, but a tortured soul.  She had rage issued -I did my best to create boundaries and help her through them, as I did when she was depressed.  I hoped being patient and being willing to listen without judgement would give her a foothold to begin to feel safe.

The first time she was truly angry with me she told me -I am furious with you!  I said 'ok'.  She sat on the bed and said 'What the hell do you mean 'ok'?'  I said 'I love you when you are angry, sad or happy, they are all parts of you'.  She said ':)amn it I am not angry with you anymore'.  I said with a smile 'Wait a while, I am a very annoying person you will be angry again soon'.  I have worked around artists most of my life, and I feel there is no free lunch -with creativity comes pain and temper.  I accepted the bad with the good.

I was planning to leave my life and move abroad to begin a new life with her.  Our plan had been to have her grandparents move in with us and care for them; she was raised by her grandparents after she had been abandoned by her mother. She recalls the conversation between her mother and uncle about leaving her in the snow to die as a little girl.

It was a lovely plan (not the snow part, our plan).  I had never felt the storybook love I felt with her and I was willing to start over and do anything to be with her.  

As I was putting my affairs in order to close up shop and move to her country she began to rage every day when we would speak on the phone.  I did my best to mitigate her rage, be calm and wait for the storm to pass as it always had in the past.  This storm lasted longer, and after about 7 days of rage she said 'We have nothing more to talk about' -meaning she was breaking up with me.

I had told her early on this was not an acceptable threat -breaking up is something to be done once.  I grew up in the cold war and explained the concept of MAD to her (Mutually Assured Destruction). Later that night after she 'broke up with me' I woke up with a start and had had an epiphany -she will leave me one day.  I thought about what my life would have looked like if she abandoned me after moving to her county, and taking on caring for her grandparents.  It would have meant my utter destruction -no possible recovery of my career, no home, and virtually no country.

I was very fortunate to have had the instinct to leave -As I had mentioned I was unaware of BPD and the likelihood that she had already cheated on me perhaps more than once (a long, boring and irrelevant story).  I was ignorant and missed a lot of red flag events, which now make a lot of sense.

Finally to my point... . I bear her no ill will.  I miss her terribly and think obsessively about what we shared.  Perhaps we were experiencing love differently, but there was love.  She told me she had never been happy before meeting me -it was true for her when she said it.  She said she never thought she would marry or wanted children (I knew this was a partial truth, and we discussed it -but I believe she desired the hyperbole to make it more real for us).   Leaving her, or more accurately agreeing with her to end our engagement was the hardest thing I have ever done.  The image of the tears rolling down her face when she said 'This is the last time we will speak?' -I answered 'yes'.  Her last words to me where 'You hang up, I can't'.

She lied to me, she cheated on me, she raged at me for days at a time -but I bear her no ill will.  I feel deeply sad for her.  Now that I am more aware of her condition and having an idea of the utter darkness I have cast her back into --I feel sincere pity. She is beautiful inside and out, but beside the glowing light of her soul is an incredible darkness over which she has no control.  I am certain she blames herself for my leaving, what is worse I am sure her family blames her as well.  I adored her grandparents and I had rekindled (forced her to rekindle is more accurate) the relationship between she and her mother.

She broke my heart and has left scars on my psyche which I feel will never fully heal.  In all of my life I have never felt so loved, never experienced such soaring highs and crushing lows.  Heaven and hell. -But I know she never meant to hurt me, she never meant to make me cry.

My life now feels grey after walking away from the searing brilliance of her love -but I will be fine. I fear for her and wish her happiness.  I hope one day she can create a happy and loving home for herself, but I am afraid it is impossible.  


Wicker Man

A wicker man was a large wicker statue used by the ancient Celts for sacrifice by burning it in effigy.


Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 08:22:55 AM »

Hi Wicker Man and Welcome

Thank you for sharing your story with us.  Your descriptive writing about the experience and your emotions really resonated with me and I'm sure will with many others here.  You're in the right place.  Everyone here has been through a relationship and at least one breakup with a pwBPD/traits.  We understand. 

Excerpt
Leaving her, or more accurately agreeing with her to end our engagement was the hardest thing I have ever done.  The image of the tears rolling down her face when she said 'This is the last time we will speak?' -I answered 'yes'.  Her last words to me where 'You hang up, I can't'.

How long has it been since you split up and how are you feeling at present?  I also left my ex and struggled a lot with guilt about that, as well as missing him intensely and wishing things were different.  How are you managing the grief process and working through the emotions?

Excerpt
Now that I am more aware of her condition and having an idea of the utter darkness I have cast her back into --I feel sincere pity. She is beautiful inside and out, but beside the glowing light of her soul is an incredible darkness over which she has no control.  I am certain she blames herself for my leaving, what is worse I am sure her family blames her as well.

This is very tough.  My dBPDbf actually said to me that if he could cut the BPD out of himself he would in a heartbeat.  It's so difficult to see someone that we love in so much pain and inner turmoil, knowing all the while that we cannot change that - only they can.  Through fear of losing what they want more than anything - love - they drive the people closest to them away.  It's heartbreaking.
 You mentioned that she had an alternative diagnosis.  Does that mean that she is actively pursuing treatment of some sort? 

It sounds like you've done some reading about BPD and feel that this fits.  There is also a great deal of helpful information here in the Articles to the right side of the page, which can help you to deepen your understanding not only of your ex but your own situation.  The information on this site is reliable, and doesn't contain a lot of the 'urban myth' that can be found all over the internet.  I'd encourage you to look around and also to join other discussions.  This benefited myself enormously.

Keep posting - we're here for you.

Love and light x     
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 10:30:52 AM »

Excerpt
How long has it been since you split up and how are you feeling at present?  I also left my ex and struggled a lot with guilt about that, as well as missing him intensely and wishing things were different.  How are you managing the grief process and working through the emotions?

I just briefly unblocked her on Instagram to check -this is actually the 100th day.  She has posted something to me very day since I began NC (No Contract). To be frank, I think I likely could have guessed the day.  Perhaps today being the centennial day was what brought me to write my first post.

I began seeing a therapist soon after the end of our engagement, journalling, and as of yesterday began posting here.  I speak with friends when I can (although friend is a moniker thrown around too lightly and easily in this day and age -it is rare to find someone to truly confide in) and I have been doing a lot of reading.  It was reading 12 Rules for Life -An Antidote to Chaos (Peterson) where I stumbled upon a reference to BPD.  It has been a long time since psychology at the university, and I was unaware of the condition (to my own peril and shame).

I am not a fan of self help books, so I am inspired to go back to the source material -12 Rules is fine, but in my opinion, it is better to re-read Rand, Nietzsche, Exodus and Jung and make one's own interpretation.

Here is the part I am not proud of... . I filed for divorce when I fell in love with my BPD.  My wife and I are considering and working toward reconciliation which is difficult and painful.  I have fully disclosed the event in its entirety -this is a horrendous experience.  I hadn't been a cheater -I (actually) style(d) myself as a good person.  I should think I am a 'Nice Guy' with codependent tendencies.

When I began speaking to my lover I saw stars in her eyes -she told me, for her, it was love at first sight.  She actually said when she saw me 'everyone around you looked dark' I was consumed, swept away and happier than I had been in my entire life. -I had never been so attracted to another human being.  I work around beauty all the time, it is my job -but I never cared, never wondered, never wandered.  It was not the way she looked, but the way she carried herself, her work ethic, and pride.

Within the first 5 minutes of speaking with her alone I told her I was married and my age -I was frank and forthright.  I was working in Asia and they often have difficulty judging occidental age.  She told me after our first meeting I was 'the one', because no man had every been completely honest with her. --God it hurt so see 'Knight in Shining Armor' so often in BPD forums, because she used those very words... .Thus she likely had said it before and will again.  To read on these forums precisely what I experienced is brutal -what I had, I thought, had been exceptional -and it was apparently banal.

When we were together we would often spend the entire day in bed -I don't mean sex, I mean just being together talking, laughing and eating take away food.  We would spend 30 minutes every day talking and laughing with her grandparents on the phone.  It was the warmest most lovely of times. My heart rate would fall by 10 beats a minute when I was in her presence -I would sleep 9 hours a night because I felt at peace.  Peace I had not experienced since I was a boy, knowing everything was going to be fine.

 --Keep in mind I despise superlatives, however, in her case I must use them.  With her everything was -most, least, best, worst, darkest, lightest.

Excerpt
This is very tough.  My dBPDbf actually said to me that if he could cut the BPD out of himself he would in a heartbeat.  It's so difficult to see someone that we love in so much pain and inner turmoil, knowing all the while that we cannot change that - only they can.  Through fear of losing what they want more than anything - love - they drive the people closest to them away.  It's heartbreaking.


One of the red flags I missed... . In a rage she broke out all the tiles and tore up all the flooring in her grandparents home.  I would guess she had to prove to herself they would not throw her out -so yes, I agree, they test the people close to them brutally hard.  Which means I failed her final test and proved her affliction correct -everyone will abandon her. --This hurts.

Excerpt
You mentioned that she had an alternative diagnosis.  :)oes that mean that she is actively pursuing treatment of some sort?  

In her country mental health is medieval, so no.  She very rarely under extreme stress had visual hallucinations, and often heard voices -which I believe was the reason for the misdiagnosis. As I mentioned before she was a cutter and had attempted suicide before we met.

After our breakup I had a lengthy discourse with her closest friend, the only one she never painted black during my tenure.  I explained I believe she may have BPD and should try to seek help (there are Western therapists, but hard to find and expensive).  It was the best I could do.  I cannot be the one to help her through this.  She wants me back and I feel if I make any contact it will start her 'healing clock' over again -I also, of course, promised my wife to not make contact with her and intend to once again begin fulfilling my promises.

Excerpt
It sounds like you've done some reading about BPD and feel that this fits.

I have spent days (obsessively) reading everything I could find from DSM to pop-culture, good message boards (this one) and bad.  Much of what I read on the internet vilifies the BPD -because the 'non' is so hurt and lashing out.  I understand the urge to vent, but I feel in my heart she is a victim in our failed relationship as am I -we both lost.  It was this which compelled me to write my views here --my love is not evil, she makes me think about the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog -it is the scorpion's nature to kill the frog.

I felt if I loved enough, gave enough (was a big enough frog) we could get across the river. --'By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.'  --Kafka  

I chose Wicker Man because I feel hallow and I was on a path which would have lead to my own immolation.  I was ready to give literally everything in this world to her -until my instinct told me she would leave one day.

Ironically -when she told her mother I agreed to care for her grandparents, her mother said 'He is lying'.  She told her mother 'He said I do not know what I am asking him to do, but he is willing.'  Her mother said 'He isn't a Lying, he is crazy'.  I not only feel the loss of her, but her entire family.  

I really can't agree with Tennyson -

'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

My life will never be the same -the sense of loss is crushing.  The shame is palpable, and the pain is relentless.  I have managed to hurt my wife, hurt my lover, and hurt both families.  

Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 08:14:40 PM »

Excerpt
I agree, they test the people close to them brutally hard.  Which means I failed her final test and proved her affliction correct -everyone will abandon her. --This hurts.

I'm sorry you're feeling this pain.  Unfortunately the only way out is through.  Time to grieve and heal is the key to things getting better.  Looking at the big picture can help somewhat when the guilt arises.  Without treatment her cycle of behaviour will continue, which means that had you gone a different path, the outcome would inevitably be the same or potentially a lot worse, as you established for yourself.  You did the right thing by yourself in protecting yourself from further pain down the line.

Excerpt
My life will never be the same -the sense of loss is crushing.  The shame is palpable, and the pain is relentless.  I have managed to hurt my wife, hurt my lover, and hurt both families. 

Feeling that way has got to be really hard for you.     You are going through a great deal right now and I feel for you.  I'm glad to see that you're reaching out for support and are taking steps to help yourself through this difficult time.     

Whilst I know it is incredibly difficult and painful, it is good to hear that your wife is possibly open to reconciliation.  There may be light at the end of the tunnel there.  Where does the divorce stand?

Love and light x   
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 03:32:13 PM »



Excerpt
Looking at the big picture can help somewhat when the guilt arises... .You did the right thing by yourself in protecting yourself from further pain down the line.

Oddly, I do not feel guilt, I do fear for her and I dearly miss the dream of a life with her. The good part of her is something I have never seen in another human being -sure one could say it was just her mirroring, but once again she is a living feeling being -not just a BPD statistic.  I wanted to be the one to be able to protect her and keep her safe, but I could only do this if I believed she would stay by my side.  I, sadly, have learned my instinct was likely correct -she would have left me either after our marriage -or worse waited until after we had had a child. 

This is going to sound terribly arrogant, but I feel badly for her because she knows who and what she pushed away.  I am guessing her family also blames her of our dissolution.  I have a feeling her mother looked at me as a bank account with a pulse, but her grand parents wanted someone to care for her and keep her safe once the pass away.  There is an enormous loss of face for her and her family because of our engagement falling apart -all of this will fall upon her shoulders.

Excerpt
I'm glad to see that you're reaching out for support and are taking steps to help yourself through this difficult time. 
   

I keep wondering if I am not being active here to keep a connection with her.  I plan to speak to my therapist about how to best get on with the grieving process.  Is posting here catharsis, or part of the obsession I still feel for her?

Please do not misunderstand --this is an amazing group and you personally give so much of your self on this board it is, simply put, heroic

Excerpt
Whilst I know it is incredibly difficult and painful, it is good to hear that your wife is possibly open to reconciliation.  There may be light at the end of the tunnel there.  Where does the divorce stand?

I can not imagine the pain I have put my wife through by betraying her.  I imagine worse than a death in the family -people are supposed to die, they are not supposed to cheat. 

Esther Perel's 'The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity' offers some hope.  It is apparently possible for couple to transcend an affair and come out the other side stronger.  We are both seeking therapy as well as couples therapy. 

My wife has OCPD and this has caused a lot of strain through out our relationship, she is now medicated, but the first 20 years were hell.  To be honest, ironically, having been with someone with OCPD for so long, I was used to rage and thought it was something I could get through, create boundaries, and mitigate with patients.  I didn't understand the rest of the instability BPD brings to the table -as I had said I took my affair partner's schizophrenic misdiagnosis at face value. 

It is an fascinating (by fascinating, to be clear, I mean horrible) conundrum -I need to fully apply myself to reconciliation, knowing at any point my wife may decide she cannot continue, I also need to somehow make sure this is the right life for me.  When I first spoke to the other woman I knew it was dangerous to my marriage to have an intimate conversation. -I didn't care.  This frightens me -it is simply not my nature.  Ok -that is no longer true -it hadn't been my nature... .

Back to your question, we are one signature away, if we choose to finalize our divorce filing. We are teetering on the precipice.

When looking back at the last year Madame de Stael's wonderful quote keeps ringing in my ears. "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering."

Right now it feels like I will spend the rest of my life wondering if I chose correctly.

Thank you again for the time you spend here helping people.


Wicker Man

Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 06:38:07 PM »

Hi Wickerman

Your post is one of the most eloquent ive ever came across, I can relate to what you say from my own experience, but without the ability to put my feelings into words that could encapsulate the power of the emotions I had for my ex, which I can see such parallels in how you have felt.

What id like to say is difficult for me, because in the midst of the power that your words carry and the passion and strength of your emotions, Id like to suggest the possibility of entertaining the notion that the despair you are feeling now, the magnitude of it, I felt my own version of it. If I could put it on a numerical scale as oppossed to being descriptive, with 1 being a complete indifference of emtional feeling to that of 100 being the absolute maximum of emotional intensity I have ever had to experience in life, if you could imagine your own scale based on that, I would put the pain I felt from my ex at close to 100. It really was, one of the most life-changing and devastating thing I have experienced. In terms of scaling the love I felt, compared to my other life experiences, it was way up in the high 90s. Again, an extreme of emotion and passion and euphoria at the height of it.

However, it was this small difference between that pain and that euphoria that made a very profound and important difference. From the way I read into your story, this similarity between us is most evident to me when you stated

"I was very fortunate to have had the instinct to leave".

where in the midst of what can be seen as overpowering strong emotions, there was something from within that underlying unsettled and troubled, and in my own case I can say, I was actively tuning out my instincts in order to fully embrace those undeniable, larger-than-life itself feelings that I just wanted nothing more than for them to continue.

I dont feel like going into more detail at the moment but id like you to know that coming from a standpoint where I had affirmed to myself that in the same vein you stated "she has left scars that will never heal on my psyche"

I made similar, for it was how I felt at the time, that 100 on the pain scale, its what I told myself because it is what I believed at the time.

As the time has went on since I left my BPDx, that scale did not stay at 100, it went down. 8 months on, it is in single digits.

A far cry from what I fully had believed and took upon myself. I was wrong about my belief, and I also think that holding such a belief, slowed down my own recovery. Something along the lines of "I think, therefore I am" or fulfilling my own prophecies.

But that has been my own journey, different from everyone elses, but I was in very much the same mindset that i gather you are now but that slider bar did incrementally drop, even if it was so slow as imperceptible on a day to day basis.

Some days I have seen the slider bar suddenly shoot back up a little, without understanding why. If I could chart it, would be high peaks and high troughs, but stretch this out over time and with the support ive had and the research ive done, and the intensity of those raw emotions from the event passing by they no longer seem like that rollercoaster ride anymore.

All I can give at the moment is a big welcome and my best wishes that in some small way, my experience can give some hope to where you are at now that however you are feeling, I truly believe it will not always be this way and that scars can heal, or at least diminish from what they first were to something more bearable even if it might not appear that way now.

Thanks Wickerman so much for sharing your experience, it resonated with me and brought back a lot of memories of my own, which I am grateful for, even though I can now see them from a perspective that is much different from where I did initially had to confront them.
Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 12:00:33 PM »

Excerpt
Id like to suggest the possibility of entertaining the notion that the despair you are feeling now, the magnitude of it, I felt my own version of it. If I could put it on a numerical scale as oppossed to being descriptive, with 1 being a complete indifference of emtional feeling to that of 100 being the absolute maximum of emotional intensity I have ever had to experience in life, if you could imagine your own scale based on that, I would put the pain I felt from my ex at close to 100. It really was, one of the most life-changing and devastating thing I have experienced. In terms of scaling the love I felt, compared to my other life experiences, it was way up in the high 90s. Again, an extreme of emotion and passion and euphoria at the height of it.

I know, intellectually, ending this relationship was the right thing to do.  I had so adored this other human being I had been willing to literally give up everything to be with her.  My plan sounds ridiculous when seen in the light of day -divorce, sale of houses, re-orientation of my career via moving to Asia, starting a family, buying a home in a country where foreigners have little property rights. -This all made perfect sense at the time,  I felt all I needed was "lieben und Luft" Love and air.  My battle cry was:

"Ultimately we know deeply that the other side of every fear is freedom".
--Marilyn Ferguson

As I look back this last year it is fascinating (this time I mean horrifying) to see how her mirroring changed when we first met.  She had been running and hiding in work (7 months job to job -we are freelance so this is, actually, not unusual to have long runs of work) from her previous boyfriend and he was wealthy (bought her a $1.5mm condo and a car) so she was mirroring being wealthy.  When we began our tryst she slowly extinguished this guise of wealth and began mirroring family values -which matches my sensibility. 

When he finally tracked her down and flew to the town where we were working they went out to dinner.  She was texting me as she broke things off with him.  She sent me 'I told him I love you' I replied 'That was not very nice'.  15 minutes later it occurred to me --You arrogant b@stard... .Did she mean 'Him' you or 'me' you.  I laughed at myself so hard my side hurt.  She had, of course, painted him black and meant me.  I should have recognized the cruelty of how she left him as a parable... .

As we became serious I demanded she speak with her mother (family values), as I was significantly older than she.  She and her mother had not spoken in over a year.  When she called her mother, her mother said 'You are out of your mind'  She replied 'That is what he said you would say'  Mother said 'He made you call me?  --tell me about this man'.  I won her mother's blessing.  So in all of the fallout from this shameful experience I did manage to rekindle the relationship between her and her family.  When we last spoke, over 100 days ago, she was staying in her home town with her family.


Excerpt
where in the midst of what can be seen as overpowering strong emotions, there was something from within that underlying unsettled and troubled, and in my own case I can say, I was actively tuning out my instincts in order to fully embrace those undeniable, larger-than-life itself feelings that I just wanted nothing more than for them to continue.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
-- Maya Angelou


I was  back in the US finalizing my divorce and packing to return to her, literally piece by piece parting out what my wife and I had built over decades.  The condo I was preparing for sale had been completely remodeled by our own hands --my wife's dream.  This was diabolically and excruciatingly painful, cruel and selfish. 

Within 36 hours of my being away from my lover her abandonment fueled rage began.  It was a 7 day slugfest where she insisted I was being too kind to my wife and further suggested 'anything you can not take away from the divorce should be burned' (this was a shot across the bow -I heard 'If we ever divorce it will be scorched earth policy' 

Apparently, the timeline of my return became an untenable issue, two weeks to lay waste to 25 years of marriage was unacceptable... .  She had no idea what I was going through physically and emotionally in preparing for such an endeavor.  It was about then when she ended a conversation with 'We have nothing more to speak of --滚' (which is tantamount go to hell).  At first I did the same thing you had -which was to white wash the negative and focus on the (perceived) bliss. However, it was after this conversation I woke up with a start at 3am realizing... .if one can threaten breaking up it is a perilously dangerous and deadly arrow to have in the quiver.

At this point I had been unaware of Borderline Personality Disorder --Sure, I knew she cut herself, had auditory and visual hallucinations, herculean rage, and a flirtatious relationship with the truth.  This could all be part of being an artist, a rough childhood, in a hard country -I had not understood she would be capable of one day walking away and never looking back.

I was blinded by my love for her and her family for quite a long time.  In 20/20 hind sight there were several times I should have ended this affair which became an engagement -from what I have since read about BPD it is likely she had already cheated on my as many as three times. 

It has been haunting reading how common and banal my experience was.  The things she said to me, what we experienced was a apparently day in the life, not a fairytale love -just an addiction.

I am a propagandist by trade, I sell things to people.  One of the best tools in our kit is the idea of happiness and true love.  I was hoist on my own petard!  I fell victim to an idea I have been peddling my entire career. I mean for f#ck-sake if it weren't me it would be funny.

"Everything is funny, as long as it's happening to somebody else".

--Will Rogers

Excerpt
Some days I have seen the slider bar suddenly shoot back up a little, without understanding why. If I could chart it, would be high peaks and high troughs, but stretch this out over time and with the support ive had and the research ive done, and the intensity of those raw emotions from the event passing by they no longer seem like that rollercoaster ride anymore.

What should go without saying --I should have been strong enough and man enough to have never started an affair -If I was unhappy in my marriage I should have either tried to fix it, or ended it.  As a result of my indiscretion I have shamed myself, hurt my wife, my wife's family, cast my lover back into utter darkness, shamed her in front of her family, and her family has lost face to their neighbors.  --All in all quite badly done.

When I returned to wrap things up my wife had sent me an email asking if we shouldn't consider reconciliation.  This email, regardless of whether or not we can reconcile saved my life.  --I am certain, subconsciously, I had been comparing real love with the unhealthy love I had experienced during my affair.

Time heals.  Thank you for taking the time for such a thoughtful exchange Cromwell.  I can not help wondering, did you choose the moniker 'Cromwell' as a warning to never recycle?  If I recall Cromwell was exhumed and beheaded. 


Wicker Man 
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 03:39:11 PM »

Good Evening Wicker Man

Sounds like you really have been through an adventure, id like to just let you know how much it helps to hear such similar base-level shared experience of emotions on the one hand, but to get an idea of the back drop and circumstances that are very polar different. As you say, youve read quite a bit on here as have I, eventually it becomes canny to me and a sense of banality to see just how what others have been through sort of just ticks a mental checklist in my head to the stage that it has become more like a clinical observation than what it had been before. I wonder if at some stage you may or may not get to this point in time and recognise it and understand the feeling. Part of what stunted my recovery is not wanting to let go of the pain, because to a great degree, it was this Dr Jekyl and Dr Hyde alternation I was faced with is what made the amazing times so great. Or to make it clearer, and something I actually said to my BPDx when she was upset, I said "dont feel to bad about the bad times, because they have a purpose of heightening the good". I can see exactly now why I was able to say this at the time, I was accustomed to being disappointed it became an emotional baseline, so even just when she gave the scraps of happiness, they were so desired by me that it was like being a very hungry dog that had just had a bone thrown from the table. Then the day that you got thrown a juicy steak was like a paradise in comparison. Part of me became accustomed to the dynamic that I discovered she enjoyed having this control in a sort of emotional sado masochistic way. It became almost a role play that I entered myself into, for I had already in my heart abandoned the dream of having a healthy loving relationship, based on her cheating and other antics that had happened early on. This wasnt a role that I enjoyed but I felt that as a person who I realised at her core was lacking in self esteem, felt so much anger and powerless in the world, I felt that to an extent I would let her feel what it was like to have someone wrapped around her finger, and I was also interested to see how she would use this. Its why I ran after her most ridiculous needs and demands she put on me, knowing that she wasnt doing these things so much for any material gain as she was doing it to test just how far she could be in control of me.

I had never met anyone like her and knew nothing about the condition, but I did have strong feelings and felt love for her, I wanted to test, test, test and understand, being brought up with a mindset that you dont throw things out of your life if they have some inherently good value attached. People often come on these boards and a common theme is that they have ended up feeling "used" or been made a fool. Id like to say that my partner was and still is very much an enigma to me, just as much as she is one to her very self. I cant blame myself for not understanding someone, it doesnt happen overnight and there are no people that can read another person "like a book" as my BPDx once arrogantly told me. It takes time.

However, I found your quote by Maya Angelou quite inspirational and would like to link this page related to it, I hope others find it useful like I did. https://tinybuddha.com/blog/when-someone-shows-you-who-they-are-believe-them/

People come into our lives for a reason and things happen to us for a reason, even if that reason is not clearly evident and can take a very long time after the event to figure out. After what ive been through I have learned that at my core, I had excellent values and traits, but there was a side to me that should have not got swayed by such alluring emotions and to become blindsided to a person who went against values early on that were important to me, thinking that I could overlook them or change her. We get to a certain age in life, im in my 30s, and am the equivalent of a tree that is deep rooted and not easy to bend or change without making very big conscious plans to do so. I gave my BPDx many clues at times by saying that "i wont ever change", because that is what I felt she was attempting to do, we were not compatible in many important ways and it was folly of me to even entertain the idea that I would change the person I am in order to accomodate her. When I write it like that, it makes me realise just how much a borderline trait that is. She was an expert at mirroring my traits, but it wasnt who she was, she has a personality disorder and lack of an identity, able to change at a whim. and this, as you may have also found out, is not something that you can build a secure, stable relationship on and expect it to remain as such for any given length of time.

I think from my own insight into your posts is I get the impression that you have intellectualised and learned a lot about what you have been through, but it is still a very early stage to consider that this knowledge accumulation can take away the painful emotions and memories. I could have had the world expert on BPD telling me what was going on during my R/S, I would have slammed the door in their face; no-one would be able to besmirch the character of cast aspersions on the person who made me feel the way she managed to make me feel. What could their textbook know more than I could of the person I lived with. In other words, I was in heavy denial, didnt want to have this "addiction" as you also word it accurately, taken off me, and so it endured onwards. Im just happy that im close to the stage of radical acceptance and whilst I felt as you describe for quite some time, so can relate, those feelings are just not there anymore, I enjoy my life without her and im even grateful for the vast amount of experience I have gained in the process. But I wouldnt have said the same thing even a month or two ago. Thats why ultimately Id like to send you a message of hope, and not to rush yourself if you have to grieve or confront these feelings, but overcome them your own way and own time. My biggest hope is if any of what I have said will make you feel less fatalistic in some of the thoughts you have right now, trust me I know very well how it feels to think that way.

Most of all, thank you so much for your well written post, my recovery has been a result of an amalgamation of reading hundreds of experiences and there has always been some little gem that gave me at least something to think differently about. ive got the equivalent of what feels a treasure chest now. A far cry from the time I was in the darkness alone and was strategically isolated and did this voluntarily to let myself be "consumed" by another person in the absence of knowing deep inside that they werent able to love me instead as I had so much longed for.

I sure wont be letting that ever happen again! :D and thats what matters the most to me, that I dont wake up anymore and feel sorry for myself anymore. Although I believe that there was a time for that too.

Huge untapped value in the experience ive went through, when I start looking for it and not reacting to it emotionally. and by sharing it here becomes all the more powerful. If i have managed to even say one thing in all of my posts that has led to someone getting themselves back on a path that leads them to feel better, become happier however slight, then I feel humbled and happy for that at the same time. Just as your post have already done for me and youve only just barely joined us here. Thank you again.

I didnt choose my username and laughed out loud when I got it assigned to me, but have kept it since, its starting to suit and I love the historical comparison you pointed out, if there was ever a warning not to allow her to recycle me again that imagery will be the first thing that will flash in front of my mind, yes - youve done the trick, I really just felt a slight dislike to you now, for ensuring that there is no way of return for her. See there must have been even a slither of latent desire for that to happen and just goes to show I dont get complacent in myself however good I feel, still a work in progress and I enjoy that too - doing stuff for my own needs is starting to become enjoyable even, now I understand how much my BPDx liked it so much to have someone cater to her needs, she is missing out on a lot because hers is an insatiable appetite that cant ever be fulfilled. I dont just understand the recognised concept behind that, I truly feel it now. This is the synthesis of knowledge and experience, I was just floundering when I had one without the other. youve got the experience, id suggest read read read until you get to the saturation ppint where you really feel you are in control of these emotions by recognising their root cause and not the other way around.

id like to share a quote from my BPDx, "always remember, you are an amazing person, never let anyone put you down".

It doesnt maybe share the eloquence of established writers but i love the irony in that if I had taken on board her advice, I wouldnt have seen her the day after she bestowed it upon me.
Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 05:14:33 PM »

Oddly, I do not feel guilt, I do fear for her and I dearly miss the dream of a life with her. The good part of her is something I have never seen in another human being... .

I wanted to be the one to be able to protect her and keep her safe, but I could only do this if I believed she would stay by my side.    

... .her grand parents wanted someone to care for her and keep her safe once the pass away.    

I keep wondering if I am not being active here to keep a connection with her.  I plan to speak to my therapist about how to best get on with the grieving process.  Is posting here catharsis, or part of the obsession I still feel for her?

It is apparently possible for couple to transcend an affair and come out the other side stronger.  We are both seeking therapy as well as couples therapy.  

... .I need to fully apply myself to reconciliation, knowing at any point my wife may decide she cannot continue, I also need to somehow make sure this is the right life for me ... .We are teetering on the precipice.

I'm pleased to hear that you're not carrying guilt.  That's really positive.  When I left my r/s I was so deep in the FOG that I couldn't see my hand in front of my face.  Survival instinct kicking in is what saved me from heading deeper down the rabbit hole.  Sounds like we have that much in common.  That dream of the future with this person is so captivating, isn't it?  I'm afraid that waking up from that is a bit of a bumpy ride so try to be kind to yourself, regardless of what you feel you have done.  We all make mistakes, and it's how we follow these that counts.

I have a question about keeping her safe.  :)oes she need to be kept safe?  If so, from what?  Why is it that this is someone else's job?  I'm intrigued to see that your wife also has a PD.  What do you think is the draw for you?  I'm interested as I also have a history of dysfunctional relationships and have drawn some conclusions from that which have been very enlightening.  It's my belief everything happens for a reason and that all of life is a lesson to be learned.  If we don't take away the message from something the first time, it comes back around.  Clearly I'm not great at taking the hint  

Regards being active here keeping a connection, hopefully - this board being aimed at aiding detachment - the opposite will ring true for you in time.  We're here to help you let go and heal in a healthy way.  It is wise to want to work through the grief process.  The Lessons are a great place to start.  They allow us to assess where we are in the stages and consider how we are progressing.  I'd encourage you not only to keep reading and posting, but to join other discussions here.  I gained a great deal from that and still do.  Now I am simply giving back what I received when I first arrived here and am still humbled by this incredibly supportive community and the strength of its' members.  If you take endurance alone, the collective grit in these pages is mind blowing.

Good to hear that your wife and yourself are putting in the work with therapists to lay a foundation for something dare I say 'new' between you.  This work can only be a good thing, no matter what the outcome for you as a couple.  I do wonder if the 'teetering' puts you under pressure to decide if reconciliation is what you truly want.  From what you say about wondering if you made the right decision in the future, perhaps you could find a way to remove that pressure for the moment?  Just a thought.

Love and light x  
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2018, 06:13:19 PM »

Excerpt
That dream of the future with this person is so captivating, isn't it?  I'm afraid that waking up from that is a bit of a bumpy ride.

I have never used a schedule 1 drug, but I should imagine trying to fight addiction is much the same -it makes a great analogy as well.  Something which makes you feel better than you have ever felt and will ultimately lead to the destruction of life as you know it.

Excerpt
I have a question about keeping her safe.  :)oes she need to be kept safe?  If so, from what?  Why is it that this is someone else's job?  

I truly and deeply loved this person.  It is not easy to be a woman in her country, being attractive makes matters even worse.  She is perceived as a thing -youth is to be consumed and disposed of.  Of course, there are good men everywhere, but culturally it is not the norm.  There is a saying I heard while I was there 'Every man needs three things to beat, a wife a child and a dog'... .  Life will be hard for her. --You are, of course, correct -it is not my job. It was just a job I really wanted... .

 

Excerpt
I'm intrigued to see that your wife also has a PD.  What do you think is the draw for you?
 

That one is easy -I am a nice guy / codependent.  I am lucky enough to had cobbled together enough of a sense of self to have limits. 

"What child has not had reason to weep over its parents"

--Thus Spoke Zarathustra

My wife is a genius.  Our relationship began because her mother was going to pull her out of college.  Her mother may have been the single worst person I have every met -I despise hyperbole and I say 'worst' carefully and slowly.  The woman would actually plan evil -premeditate evil.  I believe she was bi-polar / histrionic.  I swear as I live and breath if you had been in the same room with her you would feel ill at ease.  She radiated malice.

My career had taken off early and I owned a home, so I let my wife move in so she could continue her studies -she was too brilliant to leave the university.  We became intimate and within 6 months her rage began --retroactive jealousy.  This went on for years, but I could not bring myself to end things and send her back to the gaping jaws of her mother.  Our relationship had been nearly sexless for 20 years and a rollercoaster ride.  I love my career so much I could hide in it.  When things got bad at home a job would come and I was off traveling, being creative and living my dream (workaholic).  This cycle went and time passed.  --I guess I had always had a mistress and she was work.  Beautiful, fulfilling and validating.

If anything good comes from my affair it will have been my wife seeking therapy and creating a wedge between her OCPD and herself.  She has been on an anti-depressant for the last 5 years, so the rage has stopped -that is only the beginning. 

Excerpt
Regards being active here keeping a connection, hopefully - this board being aimed at aiding detachment - the opposite will ring true for you in time.  We're here to help you let go and heal in a healthy way.  It is wise to want to work through the grief process.

This is an amazing community.  I wish I never had had cause to join the group, but I find myself here today... .  Borderline Personality Disorder is a hell of a thing.


 
Excerpt
 The Lessons are a great place to start.
 

I have been reading there too.


Excerpt
Good to hear that your wife and yourself are putting in the work with therapists to lay a foundation for something dare I say 'new' between you.  This work can only be a good thing, no matter what the outcome for you as a couple.

Yes, if not reconciliation, then closure and greater understanding.

Excerpt
I do wonder if the 'teetering' puts you under pressure to decide if reconciliation is what you truly want.  From what you say about wondering if you made the right decision in the future, perhaps you could find a way to remove that pressure for the moment?

You are, of course, correct in your observation.  We are taking things slowly.  I have taken an apartment and live back and forth between home and there.  We are not going to 'rush' into things, as recovering from the devastation of being betrayed takes a lot of time and effort.   We have been doing a lot of Solution Oriented Therapy (what we called in the old days -avoidance) and this goes well.  We enjoy cooking together and when I am not working I take care of the home so she has free time to herself in the evenings.  --to that point I should get started on dinner.

Thank you for making me feel so very welcome in the community.

Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2018, 11:17:29 AM »

Excerpt
Part of what stunted my recovery is not wanting to let go of the pain, because to a great degree, it was this Dr Jekyl and Dr Hyde alternation I was faced with is what made the amazing times so great. Or to make it clearer, and something I actually said to my BPDx when she was upset, I said "dont feel to bad about the bad times, because they have a purpose of heightening the good"... .    ... .Part of me became accustomed to the dynamic that I discovered she enjoyed having this control in a sort of emotional sado masochistic way
.  

My relationship may have been shorter than yours.  I almost never experienced rage while we were together.  One evening she flew into a rage and said 'I am extremely angry with you!' I said '好' which means something between ok and yes.  She stopped in her tracks and said 'What in the hell do you mean ok?'  I said 'Anger is part of you, and is happiness and sadness -I love you, all of you.'  She sat on the bed and said ':)amn... .  I am not angry any more.'  I said "it is ok I still love you -- don't worry, just wait I am very annoying and you will be mad again before you know it'.  

Later that evening we called her grandparents, which was a lovely nightly ritual, and she relayed the story -Grandmother laughed out loud and said 'He is perfect for you'.   --as a digression in a rage she once tore all of the flooring out of her grand parents apartment... .all of it and then smashed all the tile out of the kitchen.  To this day their apartment has concrete floors and walls in the kitchen.

When she was raging I filtered out the rage and listened for messages and only reacted to what she was trying to say.  This seemed to all but end the rage when we were together.  Over the phone was a different animal all together.  There was no way to mollify her -I am guessing in hindsight fear of abandonment was fueling her rage.  --I would use active listening and wait.

Not understanding BPD I thought this was a mixture of bi-polar and insecurity.  I believed I could help her through.  However, with BPD patients and compassion likely would not have been enough.

Excerpt
It became almost a role play that I entered myself into, for I had already in my heart abandoned the dream of having a healthy loving relationship, based on her cheating and other antics that had happened early on. This wasnt a role that I enjoyed but I felt that as a person who I realised at her core was lacking in self esteem, felt so much anger and powerless in the world, I felt that to an extent I would let her feel what it was like to have someone wrapped around her finger, and I was also interested to see how she would use this. Its why I ran after her most ridiculous needs and demands she put on me, knowing that she wasnt doing these things so much for any material gain as she was doing it to test just how far she could be in control of me.

This is very interesting to read.  My partner was starting to make a lot of bids for power in the relationship, some major and some ridiculously minor.  She cancelled a vacation to Thailand we had planned the day we were to leave.  She said she had wanted to buy new clothes and had not had time.  I told her this was fine, but the entire idea of Thailand was not not need much more than a bathing suit and flip flops... .  She began to refuse to go out of the apartment.  Two bids for power which planted seeds of danger were -she refused to accompany me to a work meeting 10 minutes before I was to get in the car to leave (she was to act as an interpreter if I had run into language trouble) and the other one was she was refusing to send a payment to my agent. I couldn't send the payment myself, it was something only she could do (banking system issue).  It took me 3 boring days to convince her I needed to fulfill my contract and make the payment.

Excerpt
I had never met anyone like her and knew nothing about the condition, but I did have strong feelings and felt love for her

I know this feeling absolutely.  Mine had visions, she lives between reality and a magical world.  She is an incredibly gifted artist and I learned a lot from her about movies, music and other art.  We had this in common, we both admired each other's work very much.  Our plan, actually, had been for her to work with me as my assistant and interpreter.  She told me 'I only feel happy when I am with you, you are my whole world'.  Since I am a workaholic the idea seemed ideal.  To be with the one I loved, doing what I love -it seemed like it would have been an incredible life.

Excerpt
People often come on these boards and a common theme is that they have ended up feeling "used" or been made a fool. Id like to say that my partner was and still is very much an enigma to me, just as much as she is one to her very self. I cant blame myself for not understanding someone.

Having spent hours reading on BPD Family before I made my first post, I have to say my experience was light and easy compared to many, if not most.  I have a thick skin and took no hit to my self-esteem, however if I had spent more years with her I am sure this would have not longer been the case.  As I said earlier, I would filter the anger out of her rages and listen for the actual message.  Her family was another mitigating factor, they saw I was good for her and would periodically interpose and remind her to be kind to me.  Her grandmother is a force of nature and with a word could all but create a 'hard restart' during a rage.  I was helping her little brother learn photography and would help him with his English homework.  Family is culturally very important there.  This is where I feel incredible loss.  She and I had spoken about having a child.  This was likely mirroring, I must have said something about having always wanted a child, or perhaps she just sensed it.  I feel the loss of her baby brother, grand parents as well as her mother and step father.  They had accepted me into the family completely.  I believe they wanted her to be safe and believed I could care for her.


Excerpt
I had excellent values and traits, but there was a side to me that should have not got swayed by such alluring emotions and to become blindsided to a person who went against values early on that were important to me, thinking that I could overlook them or change her. We get to a certain age in life, im in my 30s, and am the equivalent of a tree that is deep rooted and not easy to bend or change without making very big conscious plans to do so. I gave my BPDx many clues at times by saying that "i wont ever change", because that is what I felt she was attempting to do, we were not compatible in many important ways and it was folly of me to even entertain the idea that I would change the person I am in order to accomodate her. When I write it like that, it makes me realise just how much a borderline trait that is. She was an expert at mirroring my traits, but it wasnt who she was, she has a personality disorder and lack of an identity, able to change at a whim. and this, as you may have also found out, is not something that you can build a secure, stable relationship on and expect it to remain as such for any given length of time.


"If I wanted to shake this tree with my hands I should not be able to do it. But the wind, which we do not see, tortures and bends it in whatever direction it pleases. It is by invisible hands that we are bent and tortured worst." --Thus Spoke Zarathustra

Well... .young man I am in my young 50s... .  I was not wise enough to know the love I felt for her was too good to be true.  I have spent a lifetime trying to be a good man, well read, physically active, successful.  Instead of this giving me the strength and fortitude to protect myself from this sort of misstep it made me all the more susceptible!  I felt in my deepest heart I had found the love I had spent a lifetime preparing for, I deserved to be adored.  ---Foolish, and arrogant.  

Something that has struck me about the mirroring is this.  The stars you saw in her eyes, the mesmerizing brilliance and beauty was your own reflection. You saw you at your best reflected, meaning the real beauty actually lies within you and no one can take this away.

Excerpt
I could have had the world expert on BPD telling me what was going on during my R/S, I would have slammed the door in their face; no-one would be able to besmirch the character of cast aspersions on the person who made me feel the way she managed to make me feel. What could their textbook know more than I could of the person I lived with.

Ok, this is interesting and here we are different.  My ex-lover (kind of hurts to write ex and have avoided it thus far).  She had been misdiagnosed as schizophrenic with bi-polar comorbidity.  I knew I was signing on for a difficult journey and if we were to have had a child there was a genetic risk.  I adored her, saw beauty and brilliance, so I was willing to help her create a stable and nurturing home, a safe place to heal. I have a lot to give and enjoy doing so.  However, if I had know about BPD -which meant she would likely never be faithful and ultimately would have left me I would have walked away immediately.  I now feel certain at some point she would have switched me off.  I was lucky when she 'broke up with me' in a rage that I took her at her word. --as I mentioned at this point I was unaware of BPD, breaking up is simply never something to threaten.  In fact, I told her this early on in our relationship.  

It still hurt to let her go, to let go of our dream, to cast her free from the shelter I had offered her.  I will never forget the tears pouring from her eyes when she asked 'Is this the last time we will ever speak?' --It was.  

She posts daily on Instagram a dally count since the last time we have spoken.  I am trying to stay strong enough to not look.  

Excerpt
I didnt choose my username and laughed out loud when I got it assigned to me, but have kept it since, its starting to suit and I love the historical comparison you pointed out, if there was ever a warning not to allow her to recycle me again that imagery will be the first thing that will flash in front of my mind, yes - youve done the trick, I really just felt a slight dislike to you now, for ensuring that there is no way of return for her.

Give it time... .  I am quite annoying.  We can turn slight dislike to full on loathing.

Excerpt
See there must have been even a slither of latent desire for that to happen and just goes to show I dont get complacent in myself however good I feel, still a work in progress and I enjoy that too - doing stuff for my own needs is starting to become enjoyable even, now I understand how much my BPDx liked it so much to have someone cater to her needs, she is missing out on a lot because hers is an insatiable appetite that cant ever be fulfilled. I dont just understand the recognised concept behind that, I truly feel it now. This is the synthesis of knowledge and experience, I was just floundering when I had one without the other. youve got the experience, id suggest read read read until you get to the saturation ppint where you really feel you are in control of these emotions by recognising their root cause and not the other way around.

In a Road Less Travelled Dr. Peck writes about the concept of Childish love 'if I care for you the way I want to be loved -then you will love me that way too'  

I felt if I give myself up to her body and soul (house, two apartments, car)  it would be reciprocated.  Human being do not work this way... .  I supposed this is why Dr. Peck called it Childish... .  I was, I behaved like a child. However, when you are being told 'You are my whole world', 'You are my knight in shining armor' and so on it is easy to fall into a childish love.  It is like a fairytale love, but when kids find a house made of candy in the forest they may end up in the oven.

Excerpt
id like to share a quote from my BPDx, "always remember, you are an amazing person, never let anyone put you down".

It is good advice.  


Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Lady Itone
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 238



« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2018, 02:15:48 PM »

Thanks for this post, Wicker Man and others, I read it twice.

I know the feelings you describe well. Lately, life seems flavorless without her. I'm certain nobody will ever feel so good in my arms again.

She hears voices, sees ghosts, and once she has smashed up my house in a rage. When she weeps, it shakes the walls. When she smiles, the whole world lights up. I am fascinated by her, the feral way she moves through the world. When she was with me, she stopped making bruises on herself by digging into her muscles with her knuckles, and she gained enough weight to look healthy. She managed, for a while, to go to school and hold a job.   

But she kept sabotaging everything until I cried uncle and made her go away from me, where I now keep her at arms' length. Now she's living in a flophouse going crazy.

She's ill, not a bad person, not malicious, traumatized by 31 years of neglect and marginalization. I'm not a bad person either, but I'm no saint. I have not yet had the wherewithal to totally walk away from this exciting creature who, for whatever reason, moves me like no other. Keep writing if it helps exorcise the demons, we hear you loud and clear.

Hope you start to feel better soon.
Logged

Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2018, 04:25:23 PM »

Hi Wicker Man

wondering how you might be feeling today?

When she was raging I filtered out the rage and listened for messages and only reacted to what she was trying to say.  This seemed to all but end the rage when we were together.  Over the phone was a different animal all together.  There was no way to mollify her -I am guessing in hindsight fear of abandonment was fueling her rage.  --I would use active listening and wait.

I did the same, from what I have come across is that a lot of the outrageous behaviour is a form of emotional pressure-testing, how far can it go before there is an abandonment risk. The problem with appeasing the behaviour is that it can lead to it escalating in the long term. I never experienced much hostility of the violent or even hostile form, when I did I did the same as you, but my ex was a master of passive-aggressiveness and i have yet to come across anyone in life that could compare to how cutting she could be with the cryptic insults when she was in that state. This difficulty in dealing with BPD is that there is not one single given "standard operating procedure" on how best to deal with it. It really is a lose-lose situation every time. Yes there are some conflict resolution tools that can lead to having a less damaging outcome, but you cant win any encounter, the game is rigged this way.

This is very interesting to read.  My partner was starting to make a lot of bids for power in the relationship, some major and some ridiculously minor.  She cancelled a vacation to Thailand we had planned the day we were to leave.  She said she had wanted to buy new clothes and had not had time.  I told her this was fine, but the entire idea of Thailand was not not need much more than a bathing suit and flip flops... . She began to refuse to go out of the apartment.  Two bids for power which planted seeds of danger were -she refused to accompany me to a work meeting 10 minutes before I was to get in the car to leave (she was to act as an interpreter if I had run into language trouble) and the other one was she was refusing to send a payment to my agent. I couldn't send the payment myself, it was something only she could do (banking system issue).  It took me 3 boring days to convince her I needed to fulfill my contract and make the payment.

Hard to comment on this one because could be a few reasons. My ex would often agree to everything, I realise now it was part of the mirroring stage, but then when it came to the time to actually do it, she could withdraw. Impulsivity is a known factor with BPD, it is why they often find themselves doing things in the emotional state they are in, and often regretting it afterwards when the damage has been done, very much a constant them in my R/S. It is why I have forgiven her secretly for the cheating, despite that being the hardest to cope with, because I see it as part of her lack of impulse control when she was dysregulated. This could explain how yours agreed to do many things but as time went on and she shifts into a different state, she wasnt willing to. Just another way to look at it.

Well... .young man I am in my young 50s... . I was not wise enough to know the love I felt for her was too good to be true.  I have spent a lifetime trying to be a good man, well read, physically active, successful.  Instead of this giving me the strength and fortitude to protect myself from this sort of misstep it made me all the more susceptible!  I felt in my deepest heart I had found the love I had spent a lifetime preparing for, I deserved to be adored.  ---Foolish, and arrogant.  

Something that has struck me about the mirroring is this.  The stars you saw in her eyes, the mesmerizing brilliance and beauty was your own reflection. You saw you at your best reflected, meaning the real beauty actually lies within you and no one can take this away.

I was in a vulnerable state when I met my ex, compared to the rest of my life I met her at my lowest of my lows and looking back I did share a very similar mindset of thinking this was a reward for all the hardship and pain I had already gone through. I got carried away with the same idea that this is what I waited all my life for and finally found it. Foolish yes in hindsight, arrogant, yes at ignoring the warning signs and the advice of non-emotionally involved outsiders (everyone!). But I was in my own world, idealised her and thought of the whole thing in mystical terms as time went on, because that is how it felt. Remember that borderline is a condition of that person being in psychosis themselves, I was unwittingly joining her many times there.

my exs famous saying about "dont let anyone put you down", in many ways the biggest stumble block is to not assign this "anyone" to ourselves. Ive certainly been my own worst enemy (she was a close 2nd place   and realised that considering the circumstances, I actually did really well  and something you might be able to establish more as the emotions dont hold so much power, they will become more manageable.

 of everything I have discovered in all this research can be reduced almost to a small leaflet, but where im at now is simply that of being entirely guilty of giving my heart to someone who couldnt handle it.

that really is the succinct BPD-experience summary of where im at to now, the height of my research.  

with regards to instagram. I had inadvertently stumbled upon one picture of her that hadnt been deleted it, the infactuation factor, is not something to be downplayed on, im at the stage now where I dont feel any shallowness to admit that if she wouldnt have been so hot that I wouldnt have put up with 90% of what she did. actually that probably does just prove that im shallow  Smiling (click to insert in post) but hey, the truth shall set you free and all that.

best wishes,

Cromwell

Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2018, 06:20:14 PM »

Greeting Cromwell,

Excerpt
wondering how you might be feeling today?

I am quite well.  I went to a movie, which can be a bit of a trigger, but all in all I am keeping the shiny side up.

Excerpt
This could explain how yours agreed to do many things but as time went on and she shifts into a different state, she wasnt willing to. Just another way to look at it.

This may very well have been the case.  Ironically, she craves attention, particularly male attention, but suffers from a bit of social anxiety. She dislikes crowds and closed spaces.  I also think perhaps she may have been testing limits of control. 

Excerpt
I was in a vulnerable state when I met my ex, compared to the rest of my life I met her at my lowest of my lows and looking back I did share a very similar mindset of thinking this was a reward for all the hardship and pain I had already gone through. I got carried away with the same idea that this is what I waited all my life for and finally found it.


Apparently, I had been very discontented in my marriage and was primed for such an encounter.  When we met I had been on this movie for 4 months working 7 days a week, and at average of 100 hours a week -I was focused and had wrapped myself in the movie like a warm blanket -my work is an escape for me, almost drug like.  So... .I would like to add, perhaps, a measure of extreme fatigue left me more emotionally open to throwing my marriage out the window.  I knew what I was doing was treacherous, dangerous and selfish -but I simply didn't care.

She caught my eye, and over a week or so, I had started putting together a profile of who I thought she might have been.  One day we ran into each other in a set hallway; I said hello and pointed to the tattoo sleeve on her right arm saying it was pretty, so I could have a look at her left wrist.  I had presumed she had attempted suicide in the past.  I had presumed this because of her stunning ability as an artist -there is never free lunch in life.  One does not get to be a brilliant artist without a darkness.  --After that brief encounter she 'friended' me on WeChat ... .something, something... .and I find myself here today writing to you.

Excerpt
... .considering the circumstances, I actually did really well  and something you might be able to establish more as the emotions dont hold so much power, they will become more manageable.

I have to say if I could hit a button and make this last year go away I would do so without hesitation.  Undo the pain I caused my wife.  I have a lot of pity for the other woman too.  She will now have to go through the rest of her life compering every man to me -the chances of her finding my equal is slim to none and I do not wish this on her.

Excerpt
being entirely guilty of giving my heart to someone who couldnt handle it.

This was my point of pitying her.  I had no agenda, no ulterior motive.  I loved and accepted all of her -except her ability to utterly turn her back on people when she no longer found them expedient. 


Excerpt
I had inadvertently stumbled upon one picture of her that hadnt been deleted it, the infactuation factor, is not something to be downplayed on, im at the stage now where I dont feel any shallowness to admit that if she wouldnt have been so hot that I wouldnt have put up with 90% of what she did. actually that probably does just prove that im shallow  Smiling (click to insert in post) but hey, the truth shall set you free and all that.

Mine was a stunning beauty as well.  It was actually her grace that attracted my eye, when she walks it is with pride -she had been schooled as a dancer before becoming a makeup artist.  I am an odd duck, of course it was lovely to have someone who was physically exquisite, but it was her mind and soul which caused me such rapture.  She is a genius with a brilliant sense of humor and the ironic.  ( I still struggle whether to write 'is' or 'was'... .  she isn't dead, just dead to me... .  Freud would have a field day).  I tolerated her issues because I thought they could be overcome with patients and my loving support, I thought the importance of family in her culture was a foundation to build upon, our age difference was accepted by her family, as well as her culture.  Her friends and family were relieved we were together, we had a very large support system -so it seemed like a good start.  I can say without and hesitation --the week I met her family was far and away the best week of my life.

I have been contacted by a few of her friends beseeching me to return to her.  To be honest, one of the friend's English was miraculously improved, I have a feeling I was actually communicating to my ex via proxy.

As a side note -this friend had been 'painted black' and my ex went 'no contact'.  Her friend was facing a grizzly divorce (axe, police etc... .good and ugly) and really needed my ex's help (see I am getting better... .I can use 'ex' now).  This poor friend sent me voice messages -her English is bad and it was hard for her to write (I can't read her language).  Her VMs were begging me to have my ex reach out to her.  This went on for weeks.  So... .this friend was, apparently, recycled (I believe to get to me).

The conversation went roughly like this:
Friend: 'What happened?  She is very sick and needs you'.
Me: It is her story to tell. I wish her well, but I will not be returning --we are done.

I did not want to betray my ex's trust and tell anything intimate to someone she had previously cut out of her life, and if my suspicion had been correct and it was actually my ex -I felt this was the best message I could convey.  Terse, but not cruel.

What a fine mess.  By the way I would like to apologize for the typographical errors in my previous post -I hit post instead of preview. 

Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2018, 06:25:50 AM »

Hi Wicker Man, 

glad to hear your being optimistic and doing your best. You know, there came a time when I didnt respond to my texts from her when they said "how are you feeling?". because I started to wonder if they were more rooted in sarcasm than having real concern or interest.  Thought

eventually i didnt like people to ask me how i was, because it meant to lie, there was no way to reveal the depth of hell I found myself trudging in. but nowadays i enjoy to tell people that im feeling great, happy, because its true, Ive organised my life so that it is as enjoyable as I can make it, and removing her has been the biggest stumbleblock on the road to getting there.  Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

I understand with the work, i think its great that you are channeling the energy and it does give distraction and is doing positive, luckily I had a very stressful demanding job where there was little opportunity or time to be allowed to think about her, it was a form of mental respite and phones were not allowed (I worked in a hospital). As soon as i left work and switched on my phone would be on a good day just 1 message, but could be between 20 and 30, some of the content saying "your not even at work I know you are lying to me", blah blah.

but it was addictive and I found my work no longer a challenge in comparison to going home and not knowing if I would have an amazing evening staying in or going out with her, or if id come home and find her head in the oven. Smiling (click to insert in post)

So yes, there was nothing grey about this "love" I had, it kept me on my toes 24/7, the adrenaline kick followed by the burnout constantly was the addiction, but not love. but im just glad that it is over, i had an interesting life and hobbies and picking them back up again as my health has improved. I tried to show her that joy can be found without chaos and drama extremes, and had small success in doing so.

Dont worry about typo errors, in 3 years I stopped writing, reading, things I had taken great interest in. If I read something I could get two sentences and have to re-read them all over again. I still struggle a bit with writing. The impact that a R/S can have on you in the long y nothing to be scoffed at, im pleased that you got to the stage of putting "number 1" first despite the love you felt intertwining so strongly with your ex. Its what i struggled with, working in health care it is normal for my personality to be doing everything I can for an ill person, to centre everything around them. It is an underlying love for wanting to be a part in getting someones life healthy again so they are able to live it as they wish to, I get a lot of fulfillment in this. But in doing so i have overlooked my own needs, and there is nothing that highlighted this more than the relationship with my ex.  Thought Attention(click to insert in post)

This time on these boards is not about my ex, it is about doing something for myself, to get better, using whatever strategies work. I hope you will find that the same Wicker Man and your life wont feel so grey anymore but will find fulfillment by starting to discover more about what it was about the dynamics behind your R/S that made you feel alive and why. This has helped me considerably and i hope it will for you also. Bullet: completed (click to insert in post)

Have a good day Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Cromwell Smiling (click to insert in post)

Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 12:02:45 PM »

 
Excerpt
You know, there came a time when I didnt respond to my texts from her when they said "how are you feeling?". because I started to wonder if they were more rooted in sarcasm than having real concern or interest.  Thought

From what I have read my situation is a bit unique.  Mine has not attempted any direct contact with me -honoring our agreement to never speak again.  I had opened a dialogue with her best friend -it is a long story, but as part of my attempt at reconciliation with my wife I was trying to fulfill a request -or perhaps better put... .a demand.

My ex passively posts messages for my benefit on Instagram, but they are veiled and someone not in the know would not understand they are directed (with uncanny precision) at me. 

Excerpt
eventually i didnt like people to ask me how i was, because it meant to lie, there was no way to reveal the depth of hell I found myself trudging in.

I am very fortunate, my therapist is currently treating some people with BPD.  He understands what I have gone through.  I don't know if I am the first relationship partner of a BPD or not, but he sometimes knows what I am going to say before I say it.

Excerpt
but nowadays i enjoy to tell people that im feeling great, happy, because its true, Ive organised my life so that it is as enjoyable as I can make it, and removing her has been the biggest stumbleblock on the road to getting there.
 

An enviable state of being.  I am glad for you.

Excerpt
I understand with the work, i think its great that you are channeling the energy and it does give distraction and is doing positive, luckily I had a very stressful demanding job where there was little opportunity or time to be allowed to think about her... .

Here is the rub.  Work had always been my escape.  It was how I coped with a questionable marriage.  (My wife has OCPD -which was why I believe I was not taken a back by my ex lover's rage --I was used to it.)  I believe in 20/20 hindsight part of my attraction to my ex was the connection to my work.  We met at work, and we are both film lovers.  She, even in a short time, had helped me grow.  This is something, since I had been doing my job for 25 years.  She lives half in reality and half in a magical world of visions both beautiful and terrible -she sometimes has trouble remembering what was a dream and what was real.  She is hypersensitive to imagery and music, so I exposed to some absolutely wonderful, if not sometimes haunting imagery.

Now that she is gone even my work feels grey.  I will, assuming I repair things at home and continue in my marriage, never return to my ex's country.  It would be a huge trigger for my wife and I think it would be devastating personally to be there without my ex at my side.  I have not spoken Mandarin in 4 months and I can already feel it slipping away. 

I just finished coloring a movie (post production), which was usually a joyful experience.  I performed my job well, but it was not the same.  Since I was 16 (learning for dad) I have spent something like 4000 hours in color correction, and every time I left the sessions exhilarated.  This time was different.  Sure... .a job well done, but that was it -no joy.

I find out today about another movie -Before I would have been nervous and excited, now I suppose one could say that I am at ease with it either way.  In other words... .I don't care.  It would be nice to have the escape, but I am not excited about the potential of the project in the same way.


Excerpt
I had an interesting life and hobbies and picking them back up again as my health has improved.

Here is a personal failing of mine -During the economic crash in 2008 I was nearly knocked out of my business (My grandfather started us in show business in 1911).  I lost 7 clients and 5 companies, as a free lance worker this is devastating.  I re-tooled myself into something which was focused on work and work alone.  If it could not get me work -I didn't need it.  I find myself now needing to learn how to play again. 

While I was with my ex I worked 175 days straight with an average work week of 110 hours.  It was heaven for me -but in this bought of work I managed to give myself a repetitive stress injury in my hip -which made it so I couldn't run.  PT is helping me through this -but what I wouldn't give at this point to be able to run.   It had always been my 'therapy'.

Ok -I have to tell a story.  My ex asked if she could go run with me.  I said 'Of course!'  It took her 45 minutes to find her running clothes and get ready.  She looked stunning... .the perfect running ninja costume... .and... .ran 3 blocks... .and had to stop.  She had not run since the dance academy and was a heavy smoker.  We laughed so hard about this.

Excerpt
I still struggle a bit with writing.
HA!  I have been journaling -I had all but forgotten how to write -I mean use a pencil to create letters.  I have been typing for so long now -I realized my handwriting skills had atrophied. 

Excerpt
This time on these boards is not about my ex, it is about doing something for myself, to get better, using whatever strategies work. I hope you will find that the same Wicker Man and your life wont feel so grey anymore but will find fulfillment by starting to discover more about what it was about the dynamics behind your R/S that made you feel alive and why.

I enjoy my time on the board -I look forward to it each day.  I just, personally, have to take care it does not become a compulsion and a way of 'staying connected' to the dream I lost. 

I fight with the cognitive dissonance my relationship has created within me.  What I am grappling with most is how my relationship with her made me feel about myself.  I felt like I was growing by leaps and bounds -becoming a better artist, learning a culture, becoming intimate with a language, and becoming less material.  I had been so happy I didn't feel I needed a lot of things -my cameras, some clothes and a big smile seemed like enough with her at my side.

Our apartment was one of 3 bedrooms in a 4 story walk up artist flop.  All our room mates were artists.  We had very little space and to a Western eye the place would have been considered hard.  (there was no oven -as reference to your previous comment) and while I was there it had been some of the happiest days of my life.

Ironically our final battle, where she broke up with me was over money!  She was demanding I buy a house for her before our marriage.  Which is a very old way of looking at things in her culture.  Further, she was demanding this be done with out a mortgage -in other words pay for the home outright. I do believe, in hindsight, she was trying to protect her grandparents in demanding this, but ':)er Tone macht die Musik' --The tone makes the music.  When push came to shove I wasn't family.  I had been willing to give her everything (dumbass) -but something must be given and never taken.

Being willing to consider this (once again --dumbass), I told her we needed to wait until after Spring Festival (2 months) -no work begins before the New Year.  I knew I would get a movie right after the Spring Festival -and told her we would have some economic breathing room -divorce is expensive.  This caused her to lose her mind and began a 7 day verbal pounding, which included me being a liar, coward, etc -ending with her 'breaking up' with me.

Ultimately, this final rage of hers likely saved my life -it woke me up.  A friend of a friend, I have since learned, followed a similar life path.  He fell in love with a girl in Asia (different country).  He moved, they married, they had a lovely baby... .She left him --disappeared, family black balled him.  He found himself penniless, alone with nowhere to turn. 

He hung himself in the bathroom of a bar. 

This grand experiment in 'happiness' of mine could have ended life as I know it.  I am glad I had the intuition so step away and learning about BPD has given me some solace in knowing it was very likely the right decision.

I am fortunate --my wife and I are trying to work through the catastrophe my affair has created in our lives -and hopefully build a healthy and loving home. 


--It will be a long road.



Wicker Man

By believing passionately in something that still does not exist, we create it. The nonexistent is whatever we have not sufficiently desired.

--Kafka


Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2018, 02:00:57 PM »

Hi Wicker Man (sorry I never realised how much I wrote, if you do decide to go through this, id suggest make a coffee first or something) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Your posts are always full of insight for me, and inspiring at the same time. I cant match you in your workaholism, but then again, I am a believer that if you are working in a job that you have the passion for, it isnt really work, if this is the case for you, its an exception I think. I found myself working in stressful difficult jobs, but doing well financially, only to look foward to giving much of it away to others. I was brought up as frugal yet never mean. Yet my ex had this very fixed transactional concept of giving and receiving, in her world paradigm, people only gave if they expected something equal or greater in return. This is just hard wired progamming and i wouldnt be changing that. Once I realised, she became a very cheap date, I just stopped being generous and surprisingly, she became less demanding. I said no to things that id otherwise find trivial about. With my work ethic and resources, it would have been easy (with the soul working alongside) to have given her the help to turn around her life and it inspired me, yet I learned from painful experience of being made to feel like a fool by something she did early on and I realised since then, she was still with me as a way of hitting the big one on the slots. I played her along to understand better and confirm that to myself, the problem isnt that I was too stupid to know what she was doing at an intellectual level, its a feeling of self sabotaging your own defences in exchange to live in the ignorance of bliss. I didnt want to know the truth or confront the disillusionment. I handed her over my credit cards almost as a way of thinking "here, ill make this easy for you", I wanted in some way to be proven wrong, dumbass? I spent 2 extra years sleeping and living with "the enemy". I rightfully label that as "idiotic", whether blinded by the love, or more accurately "falling in love with the idea of being in love".

If I had not broken up from my ex, I wouldnt be on my way to fulfilling a different dream, in a matter of weeks of going NC, I was sitting in an interview to study at pre med school, 2 weeks after that im there. Each and every minute that was not spent in my text books was thinking about her, it gave me anxiety, I turned to these boards as my only known source of help and learned I was not alone in what I had gone through. I do compulsively check in here, because there are posts like yours that help me towards recovery, gain insight from different perspectives. The biggest advance ive made was by not holding back, sharing as much as I felt comfortable to and letting other people know so it wasnt festering inside. I still think of her daily, in the quiet moments, but not nearly as much as I did and without the emotional intensity. Actually a lot what you say resonates with how I feel, its changed my perspective to a lot of things, I just feel it took longer for me to get to the state you are in now. I call it a form of grieving for lost love, I think closure may have been more obvious for you because of the long distance between you and your ex, for me, we live in the same small city and whenever I see someone similar I get startled.

Part of the stage I am now is really a processing stage, but doing so from a non-emotional standpoint. Ive came close to conclusions in that this R/S totally swept away my sense of rationale. I shared your thinking about how I didnt care about material wealth, comparatively to my ex I was financially doing well but I never thought anything to share with her. One warm summer night we spent the evening by the beach inside a cave, I made a fire, we got drunk, chatted for hours until the moon came down, it was a feeling I wont forget, the type where you feel that besides the person you love with you, there isnt anyone else in the world at that particular moment and all the things that people desire in society such as wealth, houses, fine living, I felt none of it mattered for I was truly happy, no euphoric, to feel that closeness with another. She mirrored it so well, yet, this is what made it so hurtful to realise it was not genuine or truly shared, just my illusion or self induced fantasy. My ex could mimic happiness, or plagiarise the outward appearance of love, but as your title suggests, she is walking grey inside, 24 hours of the day, 7 days of the week, including that time by the beach.

I was thinking today, when I was recalling these happy times for me, that this was really the whole point that seems so obvious it doesnt get looked at. The very fact that I was able to feel that way, is fortunate. I just took it for granted that other people have that capacity (such as my ex). My ex could get short term, transient moments of happiness, but only by doing things that gave an andrenaline kick, this is where the chaos manufacture comes from, stealing, lying, frauding. Ive yet to come across a PD person that is happy unless they are involved in any of these things, alongside drug use, sexual promiscuity or chemical interest as a form of escapism. My ex couldnt understand how happy I was when she came into the kitchen I was cleaning and singing along to the radio. Didnt understand why I didnt take advantage to steal from my workplace which would be easy for me (she did in hers and was fired). I could go on ad nauseum, but you get the idea, Im just fortunate that I did get a grip of my emotions and scarcely avoided financial ruin as well as marriage and a child, because these were all waiting in the pipeline.

I feel deeply sorry to hear what happened to your friend of a friend, this greyness is part of us, and is there for a reason. To slow down, contemplate and make sense of the experiences recently gone through. Im at the stage where I look back and think "geez, what was that all about it was crazy". Yes its glib or flippant in the face of people struggling now, but as i feel ive finally got to a stage of overcoming what i went through I know its going to just be another chapter of my life and not something im going to carry, for this I feel grateful. 8 months ago the emotions were too raw and overwhelming, nothing made any sense and there seemed like no hope. It is strange to sincerely have these beliefs at the time, yet transition to something of an entirely different mindset. I dont think anymore whether my love was reciprocated or not, or how she really felt, I appreciate the things I did at the time for her, the ability to have hit those monumental highs and lows, yet move on from them. She is no longer the centre of my universe and she never really was the keeper of my happiness, i just associated it to her, gave her that power unwittingly or perhaps, made myself vulnerable to another and that was part of the feeling of liberating oneself.

Obviously, like yourself, it couldnt have been a complete hand over, or we would never have got to the stage of extracting from the situation.

it was nice to read of the good times you went through, I have hundreds of such times, that in itself is what I focus on most these days when I think of her, along with a slight amount of guilt that she spent all that time with me and likely didnt get to experience a fraction of what I got. Sure she never got the devastation, but I know that somewhere along the line she knows that she was loved and that she lost out on it yet has to consciously repress that, it wont be easy, theres not much i did to justify being painted black.

i spent a great deal of time researching BPD during and after, it was worthwhile but I found the answers I was looking for, like I said, for me it is a chapter closed, mentally, except that not only will I use the experience for my personal advantage, but I share it in return for anyone who was at the stage I was in. I might never have another R/S which can hit those high and lows like my BPDx induced in me, but I dont feel the need for it, I had it already. Induced being the word, those feelings came from within and not her, she was merely the conduit that activated them.

I will stop rambling, your post today inspired me to get on with my studies, I already know that you have the strength and intelligence that will pull you through this. Keep making those films that give so many people entertainment, it sounds fulfilling and dont feel afraid that the passion you had that seems subdued now wont return, passion in my experience cant just be turned off and on like a tap, there isnt instant results to getting better, it takes hard work everyday and a dose of courage to confront some hard facts about ourselves and why we ended up in the situation, so as not to let it happen again.

The worlds a big place, and I could find another person quite easily who could replace my ex, I think nearly everyone could - the inner despair I feel is more to do with, and i believe others face and is what makes the world seem a grey place is the "once bitten, twice shy" and not wanting to go through the pain again, for those who figured out it wasnt ultimately worth it. Thats why instead I want to have better than my ex, the next time, and can only manage this by becoming better myself. Evolution maybe? 

 thanks for the inspiration as always, your posts are  always crammed full of wisdom, interesting and huge value to me, ive even starting to dislike you far less! i wont be able to shrug off the medusa image now with my ex, you really are good at your job, putting visuals into my mind of turning into stone at the very idea of my latent desire for a recycle. ive not met anyone as cruel as you on here yet, but your methods are highly effective, ill give you that much. hahaha.

wishing you a good day as always.

Cromwell
Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2018, 03:57:42 PM »

 
Excerpt
(sorry I never realised how much I wrote, if you do decide to go through this, id suggest make a coffee first or something) Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
 

I appreciate the immense amount of time you have spent during our discourse these last few days. 

Excerpt
Once I realised, she became a very cheap date, I just stopped being generous and surprisingly, she became less demanding.

This was a wild contradiction in her behavior.  She never wanted anything from me monetarily until the house debacle.  Perhaps, pursuant to her 'You must leave me I will destroy you' comment she felt she needed to secure a nice home for her grandparents before managing to immolate me --however... .  As I write this it now dawns on me, this may have been the hand of her mother -who likely knew she would chase me off --he seems like a nice guy... .get a house out of him... .before he leaves you... .  Her mother was a hard one to get a read on -her accent was heavy, so it was hard for me to understand her Chinese.


Excerpt
... .fulfilling a different dream, in a matter of weeks of going NC, I was sitting in an interview to study at pre med school, 2 weeks after that I'm there.

You should be incredibly proud of yourself.  Good luck and godspeed in your studies.

Excerpt
I still think of her daily, in the quiet moments, but not nearly as much as I did and without the emotional intensity.
... .Not what I wanted her hear.  I would have preferred --nope, never think of her... .Life is skittles and beer --damn... .

Excerpt
I call it a form of grieving for lost love

I grieve the loss of a dream.  I had ensnared myself into living in a fantasy, and it is a construct which is as hard to admit to as it is to escape from.

Excerpt
I think closure may have been more obvious for you because of the long distance between you and your ex, for me, we live in the same small city.

I believe it was not actually the distance, but the action of consummating my divorce (moving, selling, bank accounts, destroying everything my wife and I  had created together), in conjunction with an email requesting reconciliation I received from my wife thus creating a crucible of stress which made my ex's final rage sink in for what it was -foreshadowing, a portent of impending doom.


Excerpt
My ex could get short term, transient moments of happiness, but only by doing things that gave an andrenaline kick, this is where the chaos manufacture comes from, stealing, lying, frauding. Ive yet to come across a PD person that is happy unless they are involved in any of these things, alongside drug use, sexual promiscuity or chemical interest as a form of escapism.
This part of my ex's personality baffled me.  She was fired from the movie we met on for being honest!  Her boss had bought some dangerous contact lenses and she told the actor to not wear them.  She was found out and fired when she refused to convince the actor the use them. 

I suggested that we shouldn't drink -I told her when you drink you forget about us.  She agreed and we went 7 months without so much as a beer.  Now, one should clearly see this was an indirect admission of having cheated on me.  --super... .  Before we met she had nearly drank herself to death (literally) on more than one occasion. During our time together she repeatedly put herself into a particularly dangerous situation with a single particularly powerful and dangerous producer --metoo sort of thing.  She seemed to enjoy it... .  In fact, she and her ex-boyfriend (boss) saw eye to eye on this one -imploring her to not drink in this man's presence.  I said to her very delicately once 'If you give him the opportunity he will rape you and then I will kill him -so if you don't want me to die in a Chinese prison... .take care of yourself.'

Excerpt
Im just fortunate that I did get a grip of my emotions and scarcely avoided financial ruin as well as marriage and a child, because these were all waiting in the pipeline.

I shudder to think what would have happened to me if we had had a child and then she left me.  I can't imagine which would have been more grizzly -if she took the child or left me to care for it alone.  something something visa, house, family... .career... . 

Excerpt
I dont think anymore whether my love was reciprocated or not, or how she really felt, I appreciate the things I did at the time for her, the ability to have hit those monumental highs and lows, yet move on from them.

This is exactly what causes so much cognitive dissonance for me.  She adored me and desperately wants me back.  She saw the safety and love she so desperately needs to fill her up and make her feel secure -sadly, in my opinion, her devastating childhood has left her incapable of upholding her side of a loving relationship. 

Excerpt
Obviously, like yourself, it couldnt have been a complete hand over, or we would never have got to the stage of extracting from the situation.

One may never place one's life completely into the hands of another. 

Excerpt
I will stop rambling, your post today inspired me to get on with my studies, I already know that you have the strength and intelligence that will pull you through this.

By all means hit the books, and once again thank you for taking time out of your day for yet another thoughtful reply.  I, for obvious reasons, can't talk to my wife about my experience on this level.  I have given her full disclosure of the affair -but 'I felt like I was touched by the wing of an angel' would likely be met with acrimony.  It is helpful to be able to talk about the intoxicating along side the toxic.

Excerpt
Keep making those films that give so many people entertainment, it sounds fulfilling and dont feel afraid that the passion you had that seems subdued now wont return, passion in my experience cant just be turned off and on like a tap, there isnt instant results to getting better, it takes hard work everyday and a dose of courage to confront some hard facts about ourselves and why we ended up in the situation, so as not to let it happen again.

Yes -my lust for work will likely return, but I need to learn a balance.  If I am not able to find happiness outside of work my marriage is doomed.

Excerpt
Thanks for the inspiration as always, your posts are  always crammed full of wisdom, interesting and huge value to me, ive even starting to dislike you far less! i wont be able to shrug off the medusa image now with my ex, you really are good at your job, putting visuals into my mind of turning into stone at the very idea of my latent desire for a recycle. ive not met anyone as cruel as you on here yet, but your methods are highly effective, ill give you that much.

I looked to the unyieldingly sharp and razor honed blade of philosophy and literature as I was entering the madness of my affair -trying to find the strength to live for 'true love'.  I now find myself running my bloodied hand along the other side of this double edged blade as I try to extricate myself from the aftermath of delusion.

This passage has changed meaning several times throughout my life:

                                                 --29--

Few are made of independence -it is a privilege of the strong. And he who attempts it, having the completest right to it but without being compelled to, thereby proves that he is probably not only strong but also daring to the point of recklessness. He ventures into a labyrinth, he multiplies by a thousand the dangers which life as such already brings with it, not the smallest of which is that no one can behold how and where he goes astray, is cut off from others, and is torn to pieces limb from limb by some cave-minotaur of conscience. If such a one is destroyed, it takes place so far from the understanding of men that they neither feel it nor sympathize -and he can no longer go back!  He can no longer go back even to the pity of men!

Nietzsche BGE


Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2018, 03:19:07 PM »

Hi Wicker Man

thanks again for a very comprehensive reply, I really enjoyed the example from Nietzsche, mused about it today with regards to something entirely unrelated.

With regards to the drink, my ex when I met her, and still is, an alcoholic and recreational drug user as part of her BPD, it is recognised as one of the indicators. It is easier to forgive what she did, particularly as I know that alcohol was involved on the night of her cheating. Not that it is of any consolation but I can at least find some sort of acceptance as well as that she between the lines, told me this was the case. It is also easier to come to terms with that I cant fully blame her, I knew what I was getting myself into even if I didnt know about the condition itself, drink and drugs can bring the worst out of anyone but in her case she turned into Medusa. I really enjoyed your other post about quit smoking, I have recently 3 days ago done the same. the whole debacle has put me off alcohol, cigarettes and drugs for life, who really can tell what gifts in disguise have been secretly dropped in the fallout and the pain?

Cromwell
Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2018, 05:14:38 PM »

Cromwell touches on a really valid point here.  There ARE gifts in such an experience.  Not least the things that can be uncovered on reflection when we consider what brought us into these situations and kept us in them for as long as we were.  We each must discover for ourselves what we will take forwards with us to benefit us in how we shape our future lives. 

I don't know where I read this, but it stayed with me and I feel it sums up a key and harsh learning for myself, amongst others:

When you write the story of your life, don't let someone else hold the pen

Love and light x
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2018, 06:42:01 PM »

Excerpt
There ARE gifts in such an experience.  Not least the things that can be uncovered on reflection when we consider what brought us into these situations and kept us in them for as long as we were.  We each must discover for ourselves what we will take forwards with us to benefit us in how we shape our future lives. 

I completely agree.  The experience was life altering and has certainly given me great pause.  Particularly since my experience with BPD was in the context of an affair.  It gives me a lot to think about and try to process.  What turned me from a good husband into a cheater?  What about the affair made me willing to walk away from my life and wish to begin anew?

Excerpt
When you write the story of your life, don't let someone else hold the pen

"My life, when it is written, will read better than it lived."

--From The Lion in Winter (see this movie if you have not)

I have certainly had an interesting year and if it had happened to someone else it would be a story I would have loved to hear. 

Everything is funny, as long as it's happening to somebody else.

--Will Rogers

This experience has forced me to look hard at myself as human being. This explosive time in my life will either serve to make my marriage stronger or end it. 

Thank you all for your kindness and support.

Wicker Man


Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 10:39:56 AM »

Excerpt
This explosive time in my life will either serve to make my marriage stronger or end it.

Now seems like a good time to assess what you value in a r/s and apply that lens to what you wish to achieve in your marriage.  Have you read our article on the Characteristics of Healthy Relationships?  It covers some of the things to look for in a r/s and those areas that are red flags for abuse or lack of boundaries in either or both of the partners.  It's interesting when applied to past partners, but also helpful to think about when considering next steps in romantic relationships.  You possibly have a rare opportunity to press reset on your marriage and perhaps think about what you might want to do differently.  I hope this is helpful.

Love and light x 
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2018, 12:33:33 PM »

Excerpt
Have you read our article on the Characteristics of Healthy Relationships?  It covers some of the things to look for in a r/s and those areas that are red flags for abuse or lack of boundaries in either or both of the partners

Thank you for the article.  I will continue to read it today and for days to come.

It is exceptionally poignant, since as you pointed out in an earlier conversation, I had gone from one PD relationship to another.  The two disorders being behaviorally opposite from one another.  The common theme is both women 'needed saving'  -This of course means I have to look inside myself and find out where the attraction lies.  I feel I am a 'nice guy' / codependent -and perhaps herein lies the answer. 

Excerpt
You possibly have a rare opportunity to press reset on your marriage and perhaps think about what you might want to do differently. 

If anything good comes from my inexcusable flight from my marriage it will be both my wife and I now seeking the therapy we have needed for so many years.  What I would not give to have known how much I had repressed and ignored until it built up to the point where I broke my marriage vows.  Please do not misread this -I accept full responsibility for my actions, but I wish I had had the wisdom to seek help years ago.

It feels particularly bad to be on this board as a cheater when so many people have been hurt by their BPD partners cheating on them... .  Ironically, it is incredibly likely mine cheated on me.  I suppose there is a justice in this -live by the sword and die by the sword. 

In the light of day what seemed right at the time was an embarrassing cascade of error, miscalculation, and denial. 

I have a lot of work ahead of me, but at least now I realize it and have begun.

Thank you as always for your insight, support and wisdom.



Wicker Man

Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2018, 04:16:56 PM »

Excerpt
I feel I am a 'nice guy' / codependent -and perhaps herein lies the answer.

You're in good company.  A large number of us would fit that description.

People with a predisposition to be a codependent enabler often find themselves in relationships where their primary role is that of rescuer, supporter, and confidante. These helper types are often dependent on the other person's poor functioning to satisfy their own emotional needs.

This is taken from the article Codependency and Codependent Relationships.  You can read the rest of the article HERE

It's the last part of the above statement that made me stop and think.  The good news is that with the knowledge that we behave in this learned way comes the opportunity to unlearn it and learn a new way to approach things.  One that serves us better.

Excerpt
It feels particularly bad to be on this board as a cheater when so many people have been hurt by their BPD partners cheating on them... .


I can see how that would feel bad, yet it's important to remember that each situation is unique.  I think it's fair to say that someone who is entirely happy and fulfilled in their life is unlikely to be sold on the advances of a love bombing BPD sufferer.  That is by no means pointing the finger at the spouse.  In my view the person who cheats does so because of an underlying issue that needs to be addressed.  It sounds like you're willing to put the work into getting to the bottom of that and I commend you on this.  :)o you have a therapist/friends/family you're able to talk to openly?

Love and light x      


Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2018, 06:01:25 PM »

Excerpt
I think it's fair to say that someone who is entirely happy and fulfilled in their life is unlikely to be sold on the advances of a love bombing BPD sufferer.  

There are serial philanderers out there.  I am afraid I know a few, it simply isn't within me to act in such a manner.


Excerpt
In my view the person who cheats does so because of an underlying issue that needs to be addressed.  It sounds like you're willing to put the work into getting to the bottom of that and I commend you on this.

I agree, before being swept away, there was something inside me which allowed me to make first contact, putting myself and my marriage in jeopardy -I knew speaking to her on a personal level was dangerous, yet I did it anyway.  I still wonder about this.  There was some sort of an attraction I had never before been open to.  I work around beauty all the time, it is my job.  It really had nothing to do with how she looked, something drew me to her.

She is now out of my life. 

As the initial trauma of the affair has cooled my wife and I are beginning to address our relationship.  We will have to see which parts worked and which didn't.  With a lot of effort (and perhaps even more luck) hopefully we can transcend this crisis.

The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity -Esther Perel

This book is an incredible resource, although it asks a lot of the betrayed, in my opinion, Esther Perel's approach needs to be taken slowly.  My therapist wanted to dive right in and talk about what in the relationship caused the 'tentpole' event of the affair.  I suggested we needed to give my wife time to absorb all the information I gave her during the disclosure process as well as vent some rage.  --there is that 'rage' word again... .

In my opinion, the couple must work through the pain of betrayal to the point where the betrayed doesn't immediately fall into diffuse physiological arousal.  When fight or flight first and foremost in ones mind anything heard is a faint echo and simply can not be retained or processed.

I am consciously not making a fundamental attribution error and blaming my spouse for my actions in the slightest.

Excerpt
Do you have a therapist/friends/family you're able to talk to openly?

I am seeing a wonderful therapist, my wife has a therapist and we are seeing a fair couples therapist.

I must relay a funny story.  My wife does not like children (we have none)... .  The couples therapist said 'What if it was a real child, a child of your own, not adopted?'

I raised my hand and said I was adopted... .  He hadn't hurt me, but I couldn't let him off the hook that easily -what he said was ignorant.  Know your audience... .  I smiled about that all day.

This part of my experience is getting a bit far afield considering our forum -thank you for giving me your consideration in this matter.

Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2018, 06:18:56 PM »

Excerpt
I knew speaking to her on a personal level was dangerous, yet I did it anyway.  I still wonder about this.  There was some sort of an attraction I had never before been open to.

You may decide to post on the Learning board as you work through any revelations that you have around this over time.  It's a good place to unravel things and come to a deeper level of understanding of ourselves.

How are you doing in regards to the break up at present? 

Love and light x

Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2018, 10:05:05 AM »

Excerpt
How are you doing in regards to the break up at present? 

We have been no contact for 4 months.  She posts veiled messages meant for me on Instagram, which I blocked and do my best to not look at.  I will admit I have looked several times and it is always heart wrenching.

I keep having to remind myself of her rages.  I have to remember that she at one point tore all of the flooring out of her grand parents home and smashed all the tiles out of the kitchen -these are the people most dear in her life.

I have to remember the friends who she went no contact on -these people were sending me voice mails begging to have her contact them.  The even tried to write me in English -they were desperate.  They needed her help and she cut them off.

I have to remember the times I caught her in lies.

Most days this helps -then some days I very much miss my delusions.

She and I will never speak again -it is getting easier to say that.  There is a lot I would like to tell her -get help you are worth it and so on.  I know in doing this I would be starting her healing clock over again.  At this point she is still waiting for me, still pretending we are still engaged and will one day marry.  She also knows we broke up and are not speaking

To reiterate:  -She broke up with me in a rage and a few days later I agreed.  Her last words to me were "Then this is the last time we will ever speak?"  I said "Yes it is".  I feel desperately badly for her, to be still wearing the ring; she must be suffering incredible cognitive dissonance and pain. 

I am staying true to the promise I made to myself and my wife to have no contact whatsoever. 


Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2018, 07:34:16 AM »

You can be proud of yourself for that.  I know how hard it is when we still care about our ex partner and their well being.  This may actually be a positive low point for her that changes her direction in life.  Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is to not help. 

Love and light x
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Wicker Man
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Attempting to reconcile after my affair.
Posts: 507


« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2018, 10:27:45 AM »

Excerpt
You can be proud of yourself for that. 

To be honest of all the words in the English lexicon 'Proud' is one which feels particularly far away these days.  I am attempting to navigate the path of least destruction, mitigating losses -rather than trying for a 'win'.  I am now sifting through the ashes of a failed marriage hoping to find a glowing ember, all the while fearing fear is my motivation.

Excerpt
I know how hard it is when we still care about our ex partner and their well being.

Once again being honest -I now have spent countless hours reading and trying to understand time I spent with my BPD lover.  Trying to understand how someone can say 'Always and forever' when she meant 'or until it slips my mind', How 'I am so God damn happy' can quickly slide into 'F#CK YOU! (insert my name here)'.  How as the loving codependent you can offer everything (money, house, elder care, love, patients, compassion) and be called 'weak and a coward' -because the money wasn't coming soon enough.

Here is the embarrassing part -in my time on this board, I think somewhere down deep, I have been reading hoping to find -No you got it wrong, you missed something, it really could have worked.  You had found true love.

Instead I read over and over she (likely, meaning I am not a professional and should take great care in psychological diagnosis) suffers from BPD and our relationship would have slid from rocky into mayhem.  Very likely the only reason I escaped (relatively) unscathed was the balance of power was still swung in my direction.  I still retained the power of veto, retained my financial wherewithal, and still have my career in the United States.  I imagine if the balance of power had swung over to her I would have gotten both barrels loaded for bear.

Excerpt
This may actually be a positive low point for her that changes her direction in life

She is young and beautiful, she is bombarded constantly with the attention of men.  The path of least resistance will be to simply start the cycle over again.  I sincerely hope having met a 'good guy' she would look into herself and at the behaviors which drove me away and seek therapy -but I do not see this happening. 

Yes, I loved her deeply, and still have concern for her.  I fear she will start drinking again and if she does she will end up, one day, being raped.  At best she will fall into another destructive relationship with a man who doesn't care for her inner beauty, thinks her pain is weakness -another man who will beat her when she is angry or sad.  Sex for her will once again become a brutal, unfulfilling and painful experience which is, as she once told me, 'necessary in a relationship' not an expression of joy and togetherness.

Excerpt
Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is to not help. 

Thank you for these kind words of hope -but I left to save myself not in any way altruistic -my leaving was utterly selfish.  I had to give up on her, throw her back into her crushing darkness. I helped prove her BPD worst fear -the fear that in the end everyone will abandon her. 

I promised to never abandon her, and I could not fulfill this promise without risking my own destruction.  Even with the mitigating circumstance -it is still a promise broken.  As a codependent people pleaser this is particularly hard to process.


Wicker Man
Logged

        A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
Cromwell
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1977



« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2018, 12:33:30 PM »

Greetings Wicker Man

I remember now, (your post somehow triggered this) a memory of very early on when I met Medusa, I think it was the 3rd or 4th time, we were not in a r/s at that point just a casual sex partner. But I remember each time I started to feel strange, and unhappy, it wasnt the sort of unhappiness of missing someone but something more. I realise looking back now, it was my intuition had picked up something wasnt right, but couldnt fully determine what it was, in order words, I didnt trust her in some way but didnt know why.

So on the 4th or 5th time when we met up and it was time for her to go I remember saying that "im not going to be seeing you again for a long time", and her response was one of shock and asking me why not. The way she did this made me feel too guilty to stop seeing her and I hadnt yet experienced anything significantly wrong with her behaviour, despite an inner sense feeling uncomfortable about something not being right - not knowing what that something was and shrugging it off.

What im saying is that I can relate to the fact that you acted really on intuition and some warning signals - before you had crossed the rubicon. I just see that as a very smart and strong minded person, and that comes across of how, despite the raw emotions after the event, you have pieced things together your own way. I wish I would have followed my intuition, if I could go back and "untrade" the euphoria that became inextricably linked to the mental torment, I would, it wasnt worth it, at least that is how I review it back now. which is quite a change in mindset from what I felt was induced at that the time, a blend of my own fantasy and her encouragement of it that id found a soul mate and cant even begin to imagine what it would be like to have her ever out my life. It actually worked out pretty great! but you dont see it that way in the midst of it all.

Also about your comment about her not having a diagnosis, I actually found far more progress when I asked myself a new question that I havent yet come across even with all my times on these boards. That question is;

"all other things kept equal, how do you know the behaviour is a direct result of the illness and not just a manifestation of someone lacking character and values".

Just because Medusa had met the criteria for BPD (which involves 5 or so traits in a list and diagnosis is not a one size fits all) doesnt mean to say that the painting black (not an official psychiatric term btw) or the cheating or the stalking, is necessarily due to her BPD, she could have done all of these things regardless of her official diagnosis and they may in fact, not have anything to do with her PD, more likely than the norm, yes, but not neccessarily so. Its why what im saying is, it doesnt really matter and it is counter productive to search for these unanswerable questions, the fact is you were treated poorly, and didnt want to accept it anymore.

I (stupidly) felt guilty and a bit scared of leaving my ex, "how will this poor vulnerable soul cope without me", she played on this very much. What I really should have felt is not to care, after all, she should learn her lesson to go and beg from the person she cheated on me with, to pay her electricity, yet she came to me. I think in your situation, you eventually saw the red flags to the extent that you didnt want to stake the farm on it all, regardless of the high intensity of emotion... .smart! and im lucky that my ex hurt me early on, because every day since then, although I compartmentalised it, (didnt want the "happy" feelings to be ruined so went into a form of denial)

I never went so far as marriage and children with her, which was what she was ultimately wanted. BTW, have you read the DSMV-5, I found the section on BPD quite an interesting read today.





Here is the embarrassing part -in my time on this board, I think somewhere down deep, I have been reading hoping to find -No you got it wrong, you missed something, it really could have worked.  You had found true love.

Instead I read over and over she (likely, meaning I am not a professional and should take great care in psychological diagnosis) suffers from BPD and our relationship would have slid from rocky into mayhem.  Very likely the only reason I escaped (relatively) unscathed was the balance of power was still swung in my direction.  I still retained the power of veto, retained my financial wherewithal, and still have my career in the United States.  I imagine if the balance of power had swung over to her I would have gotten both barrels loaded for bear.


when I read your initial post, I did think to myself "oh, that was me 8 months ago, just without the way-with words", but I could relate to how you talked about her was how I felt about my Medusa. I know how it feels in the aftermath to have so many  self doubts about whether have really done the right thing / over reacted? / abandoned this vulnerable soul mate who reached out for help. etc etc

In the aftermath of it all, I feel that for myself i did find love, but it was unrequited, which in many ways is the best form of love as it cant ever be broken. It is one sided and lasts forever.

but one of the biggest confusing things to get my head around is that I loved someone whose one of their BPD traits is a lack of sense of identity and hers was constantly shifting, the reason being she had to play-act a different person than she felt in order to survive childhood, which is the primordial root of this PD comes from. So I ended up loving someone "but who?", that person themselves didnt know on a day to day basis who they were, and could change so abrubtly to the point it becomes "love/hate/love/hate". For me love has to have the core founding stone of trust and respect, I couldnt trust my ex and she, due to her condition, couldnt trust anyone. Once I got around to accepting that it wasnt the fulfillment, soul intertwined form of love that id yearned for, but a manifestation of my own wants blended with false feelings, its been easy to detach, but took a long time to accept first.

from the way I read your posts I think it sounds like searching to find part of an answer that I also wanted to know - was I the victim of some charlatan that wanted to just use me, exploit me, or was I dealing with someone who suffered because of a mental illness that exhibited itself in a way that could appear i was being manipulated to that extent. My own end of the reflection is that they (BPD generally) havent established enough empathy, their needs are entirely self focused and self driven to the point of it appearing that they dont care about others and only want to take what they can get, its not that simple, your ex probably feels a great deal of shame afterwards, but at the moment they just dont have that empathy to realise the effect their actions are having. Then there is our part to play in the dynamics, I think to myself that if only I was a more thick skinned, less emotional person in the first place, I wouldnt have been hurt to the extent I was.

which leads to the conclusion of the r/s and starting to get some value out of it, at least for me, has been the start of a selfish journey in trying to figure out how I got into this situation in the first place and what ive learned about myself. Selfish because I dont centre my thoughts anymore on medusa, she is gone and will never be again, so I find little use in trying to psychiatrise all her behaviour, it wouldnt give more than to understand her issues, which is of no practical help to me. Lifes got a lot better when I focused on myself, and started to make efforts to avoid some of the mistakes I made that got me into this toxic R/S in the first place. and yes, im at the stage of my own recovery where im not afraid to call it toxic, or think that at least I got some happiness out of it, like I said if i could go back and have acted on my initial intuitions I would, and should. im just glad I did eventually, im hoping that with the experience, I can offer someone else the same me I was, but a bit more refined and stronger version.

In short, I dont feel walking in the greyness anymore, because I came to accept that she is history and ive filled it with hope and optimism. Although these 2 factors were markedly absent in my way of thinking at the time, I had zero hope and dreaded each new day, at the same time, missing out on the chaos that I had became accustomed to, it also became a form of subconscious challenge to keep trying and "win" this person's love, convince them that they were loved and to defy the condition. but that was trying to attain the unattainable and the more I lost the more the feeling of losing gets entrenched. Long term going through this really eroded my self esteem, her antics accelerated the more control she got. Just imagine what might have happened if you had actually gone through and the ball was firmly in her court? medusas life might be very challenging, ill give it that, but survive she will, using the techniques she has always used. but having mines ruined as a byproduct of her journey was not something I was willing to cooperate with anymore. that in itself takes courage to do what is right for your own life first and foremost. for how can you help another if you cant yourself first.


Logged

What if you didn't take things personally?

Because sometimes, it really was them
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!