My girlfriend left me for her ex after 6 months - update

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you are on a good track 

A conversation starter seems like a worthwhile thing to attempt.  Good idea.  Also good that you're still working on yourself.  I was running today (a new development) and thinking that the working on yourself thing really does work.

WW

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[whiteknight4152]

It sounds like you are on a good track 

A conversation starter seems like a worthwhile thing to attempt.  Good idea.  Also good that you're still working on yourself.  I was running today (a new development) and thinking that the working on yourself thing really does work.

WW

UPDATE
That's great to hear WW! The gym or any sort of physical activity seems to help me out.

So this morning she emailed me saying, Happy mothers day to one of the best mothers i've ever met. Hope she truly has a wonderful day." (directed towards my mother)
But, i'm taking this as a good sign because she wouldn't just email me to say HMD to my mom.
What should i say in response? i was thinking, "Mom says thank you. Happy mothers day to yours as well, she brought an amazing woman into this world."  Let me know your thoughts!

[once removed]

it is a good sign. its thoughtful, and it opens the door for more, potentially.

id just scratch the amazing woman part; its a bit personal. if you want to say more id keep it about her mom.

[whiteknight4152]

it is a good sign. its thoughtful, and it opens the door for more, potentially.

id just scratch the amazing woman part; its a bit personal. if you want to say more id keep it about her mom.

I sent it, and she replied immediately, “thank you! (Crying emoji). I hope your mother doesn’t hate me. Still tears me up every time I use her bowls.” (A gift my mother gave her)

[once removed]

personally, id leave it there (it doesnt require a response), and id avoid soothing her (ie "no my mom doesnt hate you".

i suspect that either the next move will be hers, or you will have more room to operate, and more effect with your own next move.

things are on her mind... .let her marinate in them a bit.

[whiteknight4152]

I sent it, and she replied immediately, “thank you! (Crying emoji). I hope your mother doesn’t hate me. Still tears me up every time I use her bowls.” (A gift my mother gave her)

So we had a pretty steady conversation through the day, about 18 messages. I ended it with, “well I’ve gotta go prep meals and get the gym before it’s too late. I’ll talk to you later. I hope you have a good day”

Was this a good idea? It Felt so good talking to her, I just don’t want to overcrowd her. When would be a good time to message her again?

[whiteknight4152]

So we had a pretty steady conversation through the day, about 18 messages. I ended it with, “well I’ve gotta go prep meals and get the gym before it’s too late. I’ll talk to you later. I hope you have a good day”

Was this a good idea? It Felt so good talking to her, I just don’t want to overcrowd her. When would be a good time to message her again?

Yesterday morning I messaged her “good morning,” and s by her a pic of a meal I prepped (she’s vegan and I have just made the decision to go vegan myself) and I said “just wanted to share this with you, I thought you’d appreciate it. I hope you have a great day”
She responded and said “good for you. That’s awesome.”
Now, we always texted blunt like this. So it’s not uncommon. However, it wasn’t how she was messaging me the day before. I haven’t messaged her back yet. My friend at work told me to let her message me back. Is this a good sign communication is open? Should I not message back AT ALL until she does? Or wait a week if she doesn’t message?

[once removed]

However, it wasn’t how she was messaging me the day before.

i think thats expecting too much. dialing it back would help. this is a very different kind of relationship, and its going to take some adjusting.

no, i would not follow up. id hold off for a while.

[whiteknight4152]

i think thats expecting too much. dialing it back would help. this is a very different kind of relationship, and its going to take some adjusting.

no, i would not follow up. id hold off for a while.

Okay I’ll hold off. Do things sound like they are heading in a good direction?

[once removed]

good direction?

there is room to work with, she is responsive, has initiated at least once, and things have gone well.

but remember the big picture, and the long game. id put that above the day to day or week to week stuff. the relationship shes in still has to play out, and her attention and her emotions are all going to be in that barrel. you want to gently stay on her radar for when and if that goes south, without letting it overwhelm you, or her, or trying to push too much. focus on being the most attractive version of yourself, in general, and to yourself, not just for her.

what are you doing in that regard?

[Radcliff]

whiteknight, good work!    I think once removed's advice is spot on.

WW

[whiteknight4152]

whiteknight, good work!    I think once removed's advice is spot on.

WW

Seriously thank you guys for being my support system. I can’t say it enough.  once removed's Statement about the long game really put me back on track. The goal was to open communication between us again, but wait for the relationship with the ex to run its course first. I have achieved that, even to the extent of her initiating conversation first! It felt so good talking to her with all those messages that day, I just wanted to talk to her more, but I don’t want to overcrowd her while she’s still with the ex. So I’ll hold off for at least a week before I send a message to her response (unless she messages first). I’m working on making myself the most attractive person I can be in all senses. She is a vegan. When I was with her, I ate vegan when I was with her, but when I was home I wasn’t. Being vegan long term was a big deal to her. I have recently become vegan for myself, my health, and my environment; not because it would make me attractive to her, I did it for myself. To make myself the best version of myself I can be. I know me telling her I was vegan now by my own choice had to appear attractive to her. I think I’m doing everything right with the help of you all. Being vegan and working myself the hardest I’ve ever done in the gym, has already transformed my appearance in such a healthy way. Sending her a picture of the food I made also showed that as we cooked EVERYTHING together and for her business page, because that’s what we loved doing. I think I’m planting all the right seeds in this situation. It’s just difficult not responding to her when all I want to do is talk to her.

[once removed]

It’s just difficult not responding to her when all I want to do is talk to her.

some of what im going to say may seem counterintuitive.

what is going to be most attractive to her is that you respect yourself.

I can’t believe she cheated on me. I find this out the day after I sent her the positive message over email. Here I am telling her how great she is in this message, when she cheated on me before we had broken up. Then continued to string me along for weeks after.

whiteknight4152, i am not telling you to hold a grudge or let resentment guide you. this wont work out if you do; if you got back together tomorrow, there would probably be a reasonable fear of her doing it again, or getting cold feet and leaving. im afraid at this point that that fear would guide you, and i dont think it would end well for you.

when someone hurts us like that (she lashed out and blamed you for it too), and we respond by telling them they are great and amazing, and making ourselves too available, it sends the message that they are welcome to do it again; that we dont respect ourselves. this is why i suggest dropping lines about her being an amazing woman, or soothing her concerns about your mom hating her, or showing her how youre the guy she wants you to be, or being too available for deep conversations. if you let your life revolve around the next conversation or opportunity to prove yourself, it will drive you crazy, and it probably wont work.

having said that, i understand that you want her back (which is why i dont suggest dwelling on the bad stuff she did, but neither do i suggest sweeping it under the rug) and the line to walk when someone has disrespected you, and you want them back at the same time, is a tricky one to walk. we can help you do that.

strength and self respect in these circumstances looks something like: "i understand that she hadnt fully grieved her previous relationship, felt conflicted, and had to let me go in order to explore and resolve it. it happens. i love her, and im willing to give things another go (a few of the steps ive taken may be required in order to communicate that) under new and different circumstances (i certainly will not indicate that what she did was okay), but im a good, strong guy, with a lot going for him, and a lot to offer someone else, and my life will go on with or without her." and above all, living it.

that attitude, and the actions behind it, more than any single communication, is whats going to be attractive to her.

[whiteknight4152]

the line to walk when someone has disrespected you, and you want them back at the same time, is a tricky one to walk. we can help you do that.



that attitude, and the actions behind it, more than any single communication, is whats going to be attractive to her.

You’re absolutely right. It is a tricky line, and I will take all the help and advice you all give me. It’s just hard to resist the temptation of messaging her. Whenever I want to respond, I just come here. How long should I wait to respond to her?

[Radcliff]

I like what once removed is saying here.  I'm hearing that a potential restart is a chance to do it on a different footing, with you demonstrating self respect and showing her how to treat you.  It will be very difficult for you to behave differently than before, especially if you fall into each other again and get close.  And if you do stick to self respect, eventually she may not be happy with that.  But regardless, you are setting a better course for yourself in a potential relationship with her or in a future relationship.  I wish I'd heard once removed's advice when I was your age!

WW

[once removed]

How long should I wait to respond to her?

im encouraging you to think beyond this mindset. its the short game, and it will drive you crazy chasing the high of the next contact and reading into it.

youve gotta see her perspective a little bit and read her. shes not thinking day to day or week to week. she has a different mindset. youll need to see that in order to work with it.

things are in a pretty decent place (for where youre trying to go with it) right now. she knows you dont hate her. she has even initiated contact (that was a good sign). youre both on good terms. the lines are open.

its hard to take it much further. at the same time, if you want her back, youll have to stay on her radar a little, but not too much. you dont want her to have the attitude that she can have you back any time. frankly, you only want to be on her mind sporadically and periodically; it will have more impact.

and i think in general, you dont want to be too much of a friend, or part of her support system.

i would expect communication to dwindle at this point. she felt bad about what she did, and i suspect that drove her to reach out. she had a nice conversation with you, caught up, and she feels soothed and can put it out of her mind.

i would expect you to panic a bit and for the urge to contact her to increase as that happens. let it happen. its all the short game. any single communication right now is going to be pretty inconsequential. ive been there, with that overwhelming urge, many times. i finally learned to let it happen. it passes. the world doesnt end. and then i emerge from it stronger, and far clearer on what to do. we can walk you through that, it wont be easy.

anyway, i dont mean to dismiss your question.

things are going to work best if she initiates most of the conversations. when she does, you want to let her lead, play it cool, and be a bit reserved (i do not mean give her the cold shoulder, i mean your life doesnt stop because she reaches out).

i would give it a solid two weeks before i did anything at all. post what youre up to on social media in the mean time. if she contacts you in that time, its great, and you can work it a little bit, use some attraction tricks. but if she doesnt, it wouldnt really mean anything. if at the end of that two weeks youve not heard from her, i would do something really small. something that is the equivalent of a wave hello. see how she responds. if shes responsive or pushes for more, great. give it back about 50%. if shes not (and she may not be), again, it may not feel good, but its not a big deal at all in terms of the long game. but at that point, you would want to dial back even further, because if you just "wave" at her every week or two, shes going to expect it, and see it for what it is.

[whiteknight4152]

UPDATE:

I just woke up to my phone dinging from a text. From a number I’ve never seen before. It reads, “I just want to say I’m so f***ing sorry. You were truly the best person I’ve ever met. Even talking now about you it’s always of utmost respect. Thank you for being such a blessing to so many people. And thank you for never giving up on me. I can’t take back how I do things so irrationally and quick. And I know there maybe times you may wish I’ll upon me or wish me to be unhappy. The truth is I don’t think I’ll ever be happy. It’s just the way it is. And to drag you down was not my intentions. I had to leave before I just made another person miserable. Please know I wish the BEST for you. I already know you’ll go far. I have always thought that. And please know I truly am sorry.”

This has to be her. I’m guessing she’s using one of those texting apps is why the number is so weird and out of area. The only reply I have made so far is asking who is this.  What should I say in response?

[once removed]

if you dont get a response to "who is this", say nothing.

if you do, and its her, be short, polite, a little detached, and dont argue or contradict anything she said; dont try to soothe her.

but do be gentle and warm.

i might use language, in no particular order, like "what a sweet message", "thank you for the kind words"... .youd need another line or two. got any?

[whiteknight4152]

i might use language, in no particular order, like "what a sweet message", "thank you for the kind words"... .youd need another line or two. got any?

I’m not sure at all what to say. She hasn’t responded to my message yet. I’m still confused with the wacky number. But the message has to be her, because it’s how she talks. I was hoping to get some guidance here. Would it be wrong to intertwine what you said here “i understand that she hadnt fully grieved her previous relationship, felt conflicted, and had to let me go in order to explore and resolve it. it happens. i love her, and im willing to give things another go“. Into my response? Or is that too soon? I just don’t want to give her the cold shoulder. I want to initiate more conversation  with her. I have no idea what to say to her though that’ll address what she’s said, but begs for more conversation afterwards.

[once removed]

I want to initiate more conversation  with her. I have no idea what to say to her though that’ll address what she’s said, but begs for more conversation afterwards.

try to check this urge. it will pay off. dont keep chasing the high. when she initiates conversation like this, give about 50%.

her communication is about two things:

1. letting you know youre a good guy and didnt deserve what she did
2. soothing her shame

you want to thank her for the first. she was vulnerable. she was kind. it probably took a lot for her to write it. treat it like you would a very sweet card. the called for response is the equivalent of a short thank you card.

you want her to do the second on her own.

you dont want to use those previous lines, because theyre very specific about her motives, none of which she really touched on or addressed in her latest message. they are two separate conversations.

and if she doesnt reply to "who is this", there is nothing further to say.

[whiteknight4152]

Okay... .I just don’t want to respond with something that’ll turn her away. But I’m not interested in chasing the high of you think it’s best for the long game. I can thank her for the message and the kind words, but I don’t know what else to say after that... .

[once removed]

maybe something like... .

"what a sweet message, her name. thank you for the kind words. they mean a great deal to me. at the end of the day, we are all people just trying to do our best. i wish you every fortune in life, too."

but DONT send this unless you get a response to "who is this"

[whiteknight4152]

maybe something like... .

"what a sweet message, her name. thank you for the kind words. they mean a great deal to me. at the end of the day, we are all people just trying to do our best. i wish you every fortune in life, too."

but DONT send this unless you get a response to "who is this"

I won’t. You don’t think a statement like that would close thedoor between us? I’m all for not being too soothing and acting on the high of talking to her. I just don’t want to write something that seems to bring an end between us

[once removed]

I just don’t want to write something that seems to bring an end between us

whiteknight, shes in a relationship. youve got to let that play out.

youre approaching this as if each communication is a chance to reestablish the romantic connection and get back together. shes in a different place. even if she werent, it would probably play out disastrously.

each communication is pretty inconsequential. you just want things in a place where the doors are open, and both parties are occasionally cracking that door a little. its not going to feel at all rewarding, but right now, it is what youve got going for you.

[whiteknight4152]

whiteknight, shes in a relationship. youve got to let that play out.

youre approaching this as if each communication is a chance to reestablish the romantic connection and get back together. shes in a different place. even if she werent, it would probably play out disastrously.

each communication is pretty inconsequential. you just want things in a place where the doors are open, and both parties are occasionally cracking that door a little. its not going to feel at all rewarding, but right now, it is what youve got going for you.

She replied. It’s her. I wrote a message similar to that of what you advised me to. She replied you always accepted me for who I am through good and bad. She also said, “You deserved better. And you’ll find it. More so it’ll find you. Best person I know.”

[Radcliff]

She replied. It’s her. I wrote a message similar to that of what you advised me to. She replied you always accepted me for who I am through good and bad. She also said, “You deserved better. And you’ll find it. More so it’ll find you. Best person I know.”

Except for implying that she does't deserve something good, the part about you is a nice sentiment.  You may need to leave it there for a while.

Can you remind us if she is in therapy?  Are you in therapy?

Take a look at this page on what it takes to be in a relationship with a pwBPD.  We have to become the emotional caretakers of our pwBPD.  This is a risky endeavor, especially if we are on shaky emotional ground ourselves.  We're here to support you whatever course you take, but want to make sure you're doing it with eyes wide open.

WW

[whiteknight4152]

Except for implying that she does't deserve something good, the part about you is a nice sentiment.  You may need to leave it there for a while.

Can you remind us if she is in therapy?  Are you in therapy?

I’m starting therapy next week, to my knowledge she is not.
I replied to her, “Just because you weren't able to give your all to me at the time, does not mean I didn't find what I was looking for. I know what I deserve. I know what you deserve. It's found me, and if fate has it, it will come back to me.“

She replied, “I feel like i tried. Like I truly did. But then I realized it was nothing compared to what you gave me.”

I replied, “A  relationship is not always going to be 50/50. Some days  it may be 80/20. It's a partnership. It's not a competition of who deserves more out of the relationship. At the time, you had so much on your plate. On top of grieving a past relationship.  The timing with everything going on in your life was incredibly hectic. I was confused about my direction. I had to go on my own spiritual journey alone, just like you; it had to be that way. What's meant to be will always find a way.”

She replied, “yeah (with a sad emoji)

We continued to catch up for a little bit, then she didn’t respond to my last text that night. I haven’t texted her back today. She doesn’t sound like she’s doing well and I don’t want to smother her. I asked her if she had her old number still and she said no. From the texts, she seems to realize what I’m saying rings true, what’s meant to be will be. I will be patient in this process, and wait for her next move.

[Radcliff]

Wow, you covered a lot of ground.  Yes, let it rest.

That's great that you are starting therapy!  Therapists vary widely in their approach.  What I wish I'd done with a therapist when I was your age was to look at myself, and also look at my relationship with my parents and their relationship with each other, to understand myself and better be able to pick when/if a romantic relationship was healthy and a good match to continue.  You really want to "go to school" on what a healthy relationship looks like.  Boundaries are key.  Have we given you links on that yet?  Also, I can't remember if I mentioned it, but I'd give a million dollars to have had John Gottman and Nan Silver's, "Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" when I was your age.

WW

[whiteknight4152]

Wow, you covered a lot of ground.  Yes, let it rest.

WW

Do you think I responded well? And hopefully what I said will marinate with her? I’m not taking her not responding as a bad sign. The progress I’ve made from having her split me completely black, to responding to my emails, to initiating the emails and conversation, to text messaging me and hearing me out, I’d say things are looking positive. I love her with all my heart. I can tell she’s not in a good place by her tone in text. . She doesn’t take care of herself when she’s emotional. I love her to death, but I’m not gonna sit here and soothe her while she comes to these realizations. Like I said, I found what I want, and I’ll be here when it comes back to me, but I’m not gonna have a pity party for her at this moment. I had to go through it without her soothing me. I know this sounds harsh, but I’m not gonna act like what she did was okay, and that she can do it again. I love her and forgive her for it, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. & I’ll be here when she’s ready.    I added the book to my amazon shopping list! Haha.
I’m not familiar with the links, anything will help, thank you!

[whiteknight4152]

So I checked the boyfriends page today and he switched his profile picture to one Not of them, and I also checked hers, and he isn’t in her photos and has taken him out of her bio. My guess is that they have broken up.  Should I just wait for her to make the next move?